Bengals To Trade Houshmandzadeh? (1 Viewer)

[packersfan]

From RotoWorld:

According to the Dayton Daily News, impending free agent T.J. Houshmandzadeh is drawing interest on the trade market.

Housh's name has reportedly "come up quite frequently" with the 49ers, and offensive coordinator Mike Martz is said to be enamored with the Bengals' most consistent receiver. The Niners may also target Roy Williams as they try to upgrade opposite Isaac Bruce.

Source: Dayton Daily News

Related: 49ers

 

[EBF]

Makes sense. They can't afford to bring him back and still keep Chad.

 

[sholditch]

This would be perfectly in line with their management. Deal your only consistent player. Good call Bengals!

 

[packersfan]

This would be perfectly in line with their management. Deal your only consistent player. Good call Bengals!

:( Only the Bengals would turn down a ridiculously too-good-to-be-true offer for Johnson and then possibly decide to get rid of the WR who's clearly better.

 

[EBF]

This would be perfectly in line with their management. Deal your only consistent player. Good call Bengals!

:( Only the Bengals would turn down a ridiculously too-good-to-be-true offer for Johnson and then possibly decide to get rid of the WR who's clearly better.

Puh-leeze. TJ is a good player, but he owes a lot of his success to Chad. A good possession WR is not as valuable as an elite vertical WR who can stretch the field. That's why Chad got paid and TJ didn't.

 

[Andy Herron]

This would be perfectly in line with their management. Deal your only consistent player. Good call Bengals!

:( Only the Bengals would turn down a ridiculously too-good-to-be-true offer for Johnson and then possibly decide to get rid of the WR who's clearly better.

Ain't THAT the truth!Follows the pattern of cutting Rudi Johnson (and Kenny Watson to make room for Chris Henry) while signing Cedric Benson.

 

[packersfan]

This would be perfectly in line with their management. Deal your only consistent player. Good call Bengals!

Only the Bengals would turn down a ridiculously too-good-to-be-true offer for Johnson and then possibly decide to get rid of the WR who's clearly better.

Puh-leeze. TJ is a good player, but he owes a lot of his success to Chad.

I agree. But I also believe he's a better WR right now than Johnson and it could argued he's been superior for a few seasons now. I think Johnson is talented but that talent doesn't always show up on the field. And that's not taking into account his off-the-field crap which went beyond tiresome a long time ago. You don't have to worry about any of that stuff with Houshmandzadeh.

 

[StrikeS2k]

This would be perfectly in line with their management. Deal your only consistent player. Good call Bengals!

Chad Ocho Cinco has been very consistent this year as well.

 

[flapgreen]

This would be perfectly in line with their management. Deal your only consistent player. Good call Bengals!

Only the Bengals would turn down a ridiculously too-good-to-be-true offer for Johnson and then possibly decide to get rid of the WR who's clearly better.

Puh-leeze. TJ is a good player, but he owes a lot of his success to Chad. A good possession WR is not as valuable as an elite vertical WR who can stretch the field. That's why Chad got paid and TJ didn't.

Agreed. All he can really do is catch the ball. Overrated

 

[identikit]

This would be perfectly in line with their management. Deal your only consistent player. Good call Bengals!

Only the Bengals would turn down a ridiculously too-good-to-be-true offer for Johnson and then possibly decide to get rid of the WR who's clearly better.

Puh-leeze. TJ is a good player, but he owes a lot of his success to Chad.

I agree. But I also believe he's a better WR right now than Johnson and it could argued he's been superior for a few seasons now. I think Johnson is talented but that talent doesn't always show up on the field. And that's not taking into account his off-the-field crap which went beyond tiresome a long time ago. You don't have to worry about any of that stuff with Houshmandzadeh.

He's much more consistent, FF-wise.

 

[EBF]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.

TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams.

It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine.

On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.

This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

 

[packersfan]

This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

These are the Bengals we're talking about. They don't have exactly have a stellar rep of making smart personnel decisions.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Chad Johnson 2008 = Ocho Stinko

Housh is better in fantasy and in the NFL right now. Chad's a gamer, but his body is wearing down. He's a nostalgia act now-- gimmicks but no substance.

 

[sholditch]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

The only reason Chad makes more money than TJ is because the Bengals are incredibly stupid.

 

[Bermuda_Chub]

This would be an incredible windfall for JTO.

 

[EBF]

This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

These are the Bengals we're talking about. They don't have exactly have a stellar rep of making smart personnel decisions.

I don't find that argument very compelling. I think there's a consensus in the NFL regarding who's more valuable between Housh and Chad. What Chad brings to the table is much more unique and much harder to find. Wasn't his price tag reported to be two first round picks this past offseason? Wasn't there even a rumor that the Bengals turned down that offer from the Redskins? TJ Housh is like a Keenan McCardell type of WR. He's good, but he's not a franchise player. You don't pay big bucks for a catch-and-fall possession WR when you already have a lot of cash tied up in your franchise QB and WR. Housh isn't particularly fast. He isn't particularly good after the catch. He's 31 years old and he's looking for a big payday. I don't blame the Bengals for trying to unload him. I'd be doing the same thing. Chad and Housh have been in the league for the exact same number of years and Chad is far ahead of TJ in every statistical category. He's one of the most hated players on these boards judging by the constant negativity I see from posters, but you can't ignore the raw numbers. His career statistics compare favorably with most of the best WRs of his generation.

 

[EBF]

The only reason Chad makes more money than TJ is because the Bengals are incredibly stupid.

No, it's because Chad has been the better player from day one of their pro careers.

 

[Anarchy99]

They better hurry up. There's only a week or so left before the trading deadline.

 

[Stockwell]

This would be an incredible windfall for JTO.

Hopefully for Gore too....

 

[packersfan]

This would be an incredible windfall for JTO.

Absolutely. Bruce's value would take a hit. He's living off touchdowns right now and Houshmandzadeh would take a lot of those away. He could probably still be a decent WR3 if the receptions went up to relace the lost TDs since he knows the system and Martz will still keep throwing a ton. But for JTO, having two proven quality WRs to throw to would be huge for him. And EBF, I'm not discounting Johnson's talent. My belief is Housh has been underrated (not in fantasy circles) for a few years now. When you take into account everything that encompasses Chad Johnson, I'll take the guy who's proven to be just as productive (if not moreso) and comes with considerably less baggage.But that's me.

 

[Black]

This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

These are the Bengals we're talking about. They don't have exactly have a stellar rep of making smart personnel decisions.

And how would you explain the shark move to pickup Cedric Benson?

 

[sholditch]

The only reason Chad makes more money than TJ is because the Bengals are incredibly stupid.

No, it's because Chad has been the better player from day one of their pro careers.

So I guess the first five Sundays of this season are somehow not included in "from day one"?

 

[Max Power]

This all sounds like wishful thinking by the newspaper.

From everything I have read, it takes WRs at least a year to really understand Martz's offense. Why would the 49ers give up picks for a guy who will be a FA at the end of the season when they can't guarantee they will get a return from him this season?

 

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I have Housh, and I also have JTO backing up Romo... given the Niners amazingly easy FF playoff stretch... this would be great.

 

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

This all sounds like wishful thinking by the newspaper.From everything I have read, it takes WRs at least a year to really understand Martz's offense. Why would the 49ers give up picks for a guy who will be a FA at the end of the season when they can't guarantee they will get a return from him this season?

We are talking about an elite Professional wide receiver. It wouldn't be too hard for him to understand any type of play that is thrown at him. Especially a dedicated player like Housh.

 

[EBF]

And EBF, I'm not discounting Johnson's talent. My belief is Housh has been underrated (not in fantasy circles) for a few years now. When you take into account everything that encompasses Chad Johnson, I'll take the guy who's proven to be just as productive (if not moreso) and comes with considerably less baggage.But that's me.

First off, TJ hasn't been as productive. Here are their career numbers:Chad Johnson - 573 catches, 8524 yards, 50 TDsTJ Houshmandzadeh - 446 catches, 5229 yards, 36 TDsThat's not very close.Secondly, I don't think you fully grasp the impact each guy has on the team. TJ Houshandzadeh is a possession WR. He's not a deep threat who gets downfield and makes game changing plays. He's not a strong runner who takes short catches and turns them into long gains. He's a pure possession WR with a career yards per catch average of 11.7. He gets open underneath and functions as an effective safety valve. That's it. That's all he does.Chad Johnson is a completely different animal. He's a vertical threat who stretches the field and commands double teams. He has a career yards per catch average of 14.7. He gets behind the secondary and makes game changing plays. It's very hard to find a guy like this who can make dynamic plays and open up the field for everyone else on the offense. That's why he makes the big money and that's why the Bengals refused to trade him despite his character issues.

 

[EBF]

The only reason Chad makes more money than TJ is because the Bengals are incredibly stupid.

No, it's because Chad has been the better player from day one of their pro careers.

So I guess the first five Sundays of this season are somehow not included in "from day one"?

Chad Johnson has more career receptions, yards, and touchdowns than Houshmandzadeh by a pretty wide margin.

 

[two_dollars]

Does anyone have a gun I can borrow? I actually agree with EBF on this one...

 

[FantasyTrader]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

You're delusional.

 

[EBF]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

You're delusional.

I'll just let the facts speak for themselves:Chad Johnson has more career receptions, yards, and touchdowns than Houshmandzadeh by a pretty wide margin.

 

[Fullback Fro]

This all sounds like wishful thinking by the newspaper.From everything I have read, it takes WRs at least a year to really understand Martz's offense. Why would the 49ers give up picks for a guy who will be a FA at the end of the season when they can't guarantee they will get a return from him this season?

I'm sure any trade that would be agreed upon would include a new contract for Housh so he wouldn't hit the open market next season.

 

[FantasyTrader]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Mark Clayton and Gaffney. I'll let their stats speak for themselves.

 

[Ace Matherton]

Ahh not to burst the bubble but no where in that does it say Cincy is entertaining any of this, just that he's drawn interest...... this is far more about the Niners than anything about the Bengals.

 

[valhallan]

Fully onboard with EBF here. Glad he already spelled out the argument so I don't need to.

Chad >> Housh

 

[sholditch]

The only reason Chad makes more money than TJ is because the Bengals are incredibly stupid.

No, it's because Chad has been the better player from day one of their pro careers.

So I guess the first five Sundays of this season are somehow not included in "from day one"?

Chad Johnson has more career receptions, yards, and touchdowns than Houshmandzadeh by a pretty wide margin.

so they don't count?

 

[EBF]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Mark Clayton and Gaffney. I'll let their stats speak for themselves.

I think you could put either guy in the WR2 spot alongside a healthy Chad Johnson and get decent results. Their stats wouldn't be as good, but I don't think the downgrade from Housh to them would have a significant negative effect on Cincy's offense. That's the point I was trying to make. Slow possession WRs who don't make big plays generally aren't that hard to replace, which is why they don't make the type of money that guys like Chad, Burress, and Owens make.

 

[Fullback Fro]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Mark Clayton and Gaffney. I'll let their stats speak for themselves.

Mark Clayton's First 3 years in the NFL have been more productive that Housh's.

 

[Sinrman]

This would be an incredible windfall for JTO.

That's what I'm thinking... As a Brady owner trying to patch things with O'Sullivan and Edwards, this would bea blessing!

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

This all sounds like wishful thinking by the newspaper.From everything I have read, it takes WRs at least a year to really understand Martz's offense. Why would the 49ers give up picks for a guy who will be a FA at the end of the season when they can't guarantee they will get a return from him this season?

I'm sure any trade that would be agreed upon would include a new contract for Housh so he wouldn't hit the open market next season.

franchise tag could also be used to keep him in San Fran or elsewhere past this season

 

[EBF]

Chad Johnson has more career receptions, yards, and touchdowns than Houshmandzadeh by a pretty wide margin.

so they don't count?

Did you read what I wrote?I said Chad has been the better player from day one. The fact that Housh has put up better stats for four weeks of one season in no way disproves my point. Chad's overall career has been significantly better than TJ's. Hence the statement that he's been the better player from day one.

 

[jurb26]

Here are the last 3 seasons for Housh/Johnson:

Housh:

31/351/3

112/1143/12

90/1081/9 (missed 2 games this year)

233/2575/24

Johnson:

14/159/1

93/1440/8

87/1369/7

194/2968/16

Having seen more Cinci games over the past 3 years than I would have cared too. I'd have to say Housh has been every bit better than Johnson than those numbers would indicate.

 

[jurb26]

Chad Johnson has more career receptions, yards, and touchdowns than Houshmandzadeh by a pretty wide margin.

so they don't count?

Did you read what I wrote?I said Chad has been the better player from day one. The fact that Housh has put up better stats for four weeks of one season in no way disproves my point. Chad's overall career has been significantly better than TJ's. Hence the statement that he's been the better player from day one.

Housh has put up better numbers for far more than four weeks of one season. He has done so for 2 years and 4 weeks now and counting.

 

[GoBirds]

Why don't you 2 get a room unless you have info about a possible trade.

 

[EBF]

Housh has put up better numbers for far more than four weeks of one season. He has done so for 2 years and 4 weeks now and counting.

That's debatable. TJ Houshmandzadeh has never had more receiving yards than Chad Johnson in a season.TJ Houshmandzadeh's career high in receiving yards is 1143 yards. Chad Johnson has eclipsed that mark each of the past 6 years. The NFL doesn't use PPR scoring. TJ is probably a better red zone target than Chad, but his yardage totals are lagging far behind.

 

[Mimo]

TJ is Alvin Harper part deux. Great #2 WR but nothing close to being the man when given the opportunity. The 49ers will find out if the trade happens.

 

[jurb26]

Housh has put up better numbers for far more than four weeks of one season. He has done so for 2 years and 4 weeks now and counting.

That's debatable. TJ Houshmandzadeh has never had more receiving yards than Chad Johnson in a season.TJ Houshmandzadeh's career high in receiving yards is 1143 yards. Chad Johnson has eclipsed that mark each of the past 6 years. The NFL doesn't use PPR scoring. TJ is probably a better red zone target than Chad, but his yardage totals are lagging far behind.

TJ has played in 2 less games over the time period and has scored 8 more TDs. On top of that he has nearly 40 more receptions and less than 400 less yds. Per game averages over the time period:Housh: 6.65/73.6/0.68Johnson: 5.24/80.2/0.43Johnson has been a bit overrated the past 3 years while Housh has been underrated. Different breads of WR no doubt. I'd say Housh has both looked more impressive the past 2+ years and posted more impressive numbers however.

 

[drew726]

if this is true, TJ's stock either goes up or stays where it is. The person who benefits most from this is JTO. I say buy JTO low for now?

 

[OU#1]

Can we get a "rumor" section of the FBG's forums? Or should we assume everything in the Shark Pool is rumor, bias, or opinion?

 

[jurb26]

if this is true, TJ's stock either goes up or stays where it is. The person who benefits most from this is JTO. I say buy JTO low for now?

TJ's value goes down if there were to happen. Martz's offense is difficult to learn and he will be getting thrown in on the fly. Not good IMO. Also, he would immediately become the WR1 and concentration of coverage while now he is 1a or b and many times gets single coverage or miss matches due to Johnson. Long term, Housh could flourish in Martz system. In year one, leraning on the fly and adjusting to what would have to be more coverage focus. I'd say returns will take some time.

 

[teamroc]

This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

These are the Bengals we're talking about. They don't have exactly have a stellar rep of making smart personnel decisions.

I don't find that argument very compelling. I think there's a consensus in the NFL regarding who's more valuable between Housh and Chad. What Chad brings to the table is much more unique and much harder to find. Wasn't his price tag reported to be two first round picks this past offseason? Wasn't there even a rumor that the Bengals turned down that offer from the Redskins? TJ Housh is like a Keenan McCardell type of WR. He's good, but he's not a franchise player. You don't pay big bucks for a catch-and-fall possession WR when you already have a lot of cash tied up in your franchise QB and WR. Housh isn't particularly fast. He isn't particularly good after the catch. He's 31 years old and he's looking for a big payday. I don't blame the Bengals for trying to unload him. I'd be doing the same thing.

Chad and Housh have been in the league for the exact same number of years and Chad is far ahead of TJ in every statistical category. He's one of the most hated players on these boards judging by the constant negativity I see from posters, but you can't ignore the raw numbers. His career statistics compare favorably with most of the best WRs of his generation.

You seem to be forgetting Housh missed 2003. Thier catch per game, TD per game are actually very close. And Housh has outperformed CJ the last 2+ years.We're not talking about HOF. I don't care about career statistics. CJ is turning 31 in 3 months. He's been more or less awful this year. Maybe it's injuries? Age? Teams do not double cover CJ like they use to. I've seen 3 Bengal games this year, and he gets one on one coverage far more then I've ever seen in the past. And frankly, he's just not getting open.

Right now, 2008, Housh is playing at a higher level. It's not double teams. It's not CJ changing the defense. In fact, from what I've seen his shoulder injury looks worse then they are letting on, and teams are making him show he's healthy before they double team him. And he hasn't scared anyone yet this year. His YAC is awful. Which shows he's just not getting open.

Maybe it's losing, maybe it's injuries, or maybe he's just losing a step. Or maybe the team is just awful. That doesn't seem to be hurting Houshmandzadeh. If you had the pick the best WR on the Bengals right now, to play in a game today, for everything you own, you're picking Houshmandzadeh. If you're picking CJ, it's based on his career, not on how he's playing right now.