Big Ben (1 Viewer)

[parasaurolophus]

A recent thread i saw kind of made me wonder about the lack of respect being given to Big Ben. Now I am by no means the absolute definitive judge of talent here, nor is anybody else, so let me state this is my opinion. But I feel Big Ben is very underrated, at least by these boards.

Year 1

Big Ben is pretty much told "dont fu$% up". He is given a great defense and a great running game. Week 2 he takes over for Tommy Maddox against Baltimore when his team is down 20-0 and his career begins. He throws 2 TDs, two picks. Plays mediocre against a team protecting a lead.

Week 4 against Cincy

He leads his team on a 4th quarter comeback when Pittsburgh is down 17-14. Now granted he was aided a ton by the running game on this drive and a pass interference penalty as well. But he still did his job and had zero incompletions on this drive.

Week 6

Plays Great against Dallas and leads the team to a 24-20 win and leads them back from a 20-10 deficit in the 4th.

Week 8

Leads Pittsburgh to a 20-3 first quarter lead with 2 td passes against New England and eventually win 34-20.

Weeks 10,12

Lays eggs against two fairly weak teams in Cleveland and Washington. He still gets the benefit of wins because of his great defense and running game, but he played very poorly and many people feel he is hitting a wall i am sure.

Week 13

Crown Jewel of his rookie season. Plays almost perfect football. In fact his rating in this game is 158.0. .3 points short of perfect. The play that takes away his perfect rating? Intentionally spiking the ball to stop the clock at the end of the game for Pitt. to kick the game winning field goal. A drive that Big Ben completes passes of 12, 18, and 9 yards down the stretch to move them in FG range.

Week 14

Letdown stinker. Still gets a win, but no credit is deserved for it.

Week 15, 16

Plays very well against NY and Baltimore. 4th quarter comeback against the giants, in a game where Eli played great and the Pitt def gave up 30 points. Plays well against B-more qb rating of 125 in this game against a solid defense.

Year 2

Week1

Perfect passer rating. 158.3. nuff said

Weeks 2-8

Misses a game, Team goes 5-1 in his starts. Plays very well over this stretch. Has no game rated lower than 85. Throws 11tds to 2 INTs. Leads the team from behind on the road against SD.

gets hurt week 9 and misses 3 games

Weeks 12,13

Pitt loses both games upon his return from injury. He looks pretty poor against Indy and posts nice fantasy stats against cincy, but threw 3 costly picks in that game.

Weeks 14-16

Plays pretty well again and his team goes 3-0 during this stretch. He is not asked to do too much, but has ratings of 109,99, and 120. Not too shabby.

Week 17

A real stinker. against detroit of all teams. His team still wins, but he plays absolutely horrible. QB rating of 34.1. Yuk.

Year 3

Has major offseason injuries and has an emergency appendectomy right bewfore the season. Misses week 1.

Weeks 2-5

Horrible stretch of games. Just horrible. Throws zero TDs and 7 picks. QB ratings of 38,30, and 58. YPA are way down, completion % is atrocious. Team goes 0-3.

Weeks 6-7

Plays great. QB ratings of 153 and 147. 5tds, zero picks. YPA of 12.5 and 10.8.

Weeks 8-9

Two horrible games again. Losses to oakland and denver. 2tds, 7 picks. Gave his team no chance to win these games. team is sitting at 2-6 with little hope for anything. In 5 of those 6 losses Big Ben is almost singlehandedly responsible for them.

Weeks 10-15

Team goes 5-1. In their one loss Big ben has a QB rating of 46.2. In the wins he has ratings of 127, 61, 106, 101, and 85. 9tds, 6picks. Adds 2 rushing tds. Still does not appear as sharp as 2004 or 2005. But looks to be regaining that form. In the win where he had a qb rating of 61, he did manage to lead the team from behind in the 4th with 3 scores and two Tds.

Playoffs

2004 vs NYJ

Plays very poorly. Throws two picks. However he does lead the team to tie the game in the 4th and throw a td pass. Then leads the team to score a field goal in OT on a 14 play 72 yard drive.

2004 vs NE

Does not play very well, throws 3 picks. One of which is a total back breaker where Pitt is driving and NE scores an 87 yd TD return. Pitt loses.

2005 vs Cincy

Plays awesome. Team wins 31-17. Rating is 148.7

2005 vs Indy

Leads the team on 1st quarter TD drives of 10 plays 84yds and 7 plays 72 yds. Manages the game the rest of the way and they win 21-18.

2005 vs Denver

Plays great again. 21-29, 2 tds zero picks. Rushes for a score as well.

2005 vs Seattle

A real stinker. One of the worst games ever played by a QB in the SB. Somehow they eeked out a win.

Summary

I think Big Ben has shown phenomonal skills for a young QB. He has proven to be somewhat inconsistent. Just a simple line graph of his qb rating demonstrates the peaks and valleys of his young career so far. He has had a rating of below 40 in at least one game each year and a rating of above 145 each year. Many of his very poor games have come after injuries. Some of which were very serious. He is very hard to bring down because of his size. Generally makes good decisions, and is very capable of bringing his team from behind when he has put them in the hole. Lets also not forget he came into the league the same year as Phillip Rivers and Eli Manning. Rivers is getting all kinds of praise, and deservedly so. The big difference is that Rivers isnt a rookie and in 2004 when Big Ben was having almost as good a year as Rivers is this year, everybody assumed it was impossible for it to be that a rookie was this good, so it must be because of everybody else. Some of the same criticism people throw at Rivers, but not as often.

He already has a ring. Many people like to take that away from him because of how poorly he played in the Super Bowl. However he played three great games on the road to get them to the Super Bowl. How many QBs have ever put together three straight excellent road playoff games. Has anybody? That is pretty damn good for a second year QB. He also is one of very few QBs to have a game with a perfect QB rating, and just barely missed a second one.

QB rating is not the end all be all by any means. However it is a great supplement to other factors to consider. When his QB rating was among the league leaders Pitt went 15-1 and then won a SB the next year. When his QB rating was horrid this year, they were 1-5. His play has improved a lot(as did his rating) and his team is now 7-7. Hard to not give him a lot of credit.

However this book is still not written. Is Big Ben the player he was in 2004-5, or is he the player he was in early 2006? Only time will tell...

 

[Godsbrother]

There is a lot of people here that don't think Roethlisberger is any good and I've never understood it.

The best I can figure is it is a combination of a lackluster SB performance, a rocky start this season (although he has recovered nicely and is currently 7th in the NFL in passing yards), and a bit of anti-Steelers thrown in for good measure.

The bottom line is this: His passer ratings his first two seasons were both over 98, his playoff record is 5-1, he has a SB ring and he is younger than Palmer, Rivers and Romo.

 

[MarcO]

I think the reason that you think no one gives him the respect that he deserves is because most people here seem think he gets more respect than he deserves for getting the superbowl ring.

Your opinion would depend on your viewpoint... the media hyped him to no end last year through the playoffs and leading up to the Superbowl - and from that perspective he would be overrated. He's a leader on the field, usually won't cost you a game (recovering from his injuries this year seems to be the exception) and in fact can put up some very efficient, if not monster games in any given week - so I think from that perspective he is underrated.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I was worried about him for a while this year. He was playing like David Carr - a scared QB. He seems to have snapped out of it, and he's back to putting up decent numbers despite having few attempts. Ben is extremely efficient with the opportunity he does get - If YPA was a fantasy stat, Ben would be a stud. He's got good targets in Ward, Holmes, Miller, and the supporting cast behind them. He even runs for a TD here and there and should be more active in that respect next year once he's completely over his injuries.

What holds him back, of course, is the conservative nature of the Steelers offense combined with their sometimes dominant D. This tends to create situations where Roethlisberger stops producing #s by the mid to late 3rd quarter. We saw what he can do in shootouts, the ability is there for bigger numbers when the game plot demands it. The Steelers just game plan for a game plot that means he won't need to, and achieve it more than most teams.

I am watching the Bill Cowher story closer here. If Whisenhunt becomes the HC, the offense could open up more, similar to the game plans in Indy and Denver last year in the playoffs.

I see him as an acceptable, but weak QB1 right now - better suited to be a great QB2 - but with upside to enter the mid QB1 echelon if the team becomes less conservative in the future.

 

[EBF]

I think he's a great player and one of the best QBs to own in dynasty leagues. After the obvious choices like McNabb, Manning, Brady, and Palmer, there are no other QBs that I'd rather have for long-term FF purposes.

Funny thing about Ben is that everyone disregards his awesome performance over his first two seasons because he "was just asked to manage the game". These critics seem perfectly content to ignore the countless list of QBs who are asked to the same thing, but fail miserably.

Ask any Steeler fan and they'll probably tell you that there are only a handful of QBs they'd rather have. The people who watch this guy week in and week out know what he's capable of. I think Roethlisberger will be a fixture as a top 10 FF QB and I recommend acquiring him if the price is reasonable.

The lack of respect that he gets around here is just silly. If I'm not mistaken, he just lost to Jay Cutler in the dynasty QB rankings. That pretty much says it all.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

The lack of respect that he gets around here is just silly. If I'm not mistaken, he just lost to Jay Cutler in the dynasty QB rankings. That pretty much says it all.

Thats no disrespect to Ben, just props for how quickly Cutler has improved. Cutler has scored just about same as Ben over the last three game ( his first three pro starts ), and he has a lot of room to improve. Cutler still has some bust downside, as we havent seen enough to feel completely sure of him, but his upside is also considerable with the young weapons he has, his deep arm, and his running ability. I know I'll be targetting him in redrafts next year.Now if Cowher quits, Ben moves up the ranks with a bullet, and definitely past Cutler.

 

[Iron Mike Tomczak]

I think Ben is adequetely ranked, IMO. The man shows flashes of brilliance, but lacks a solid consistancy. Injuries have been a problem early on, but when hes healthy hes more often than not, good. He's comparable to Brady (i do hate saying that) in that he manages games. I can take it a step further and compare Ben to John Elway. Not over the course of career, just in style. Ben is a big No.7, so was Elway. They both have cannon arms and are smart enough to rush for a gain when neccessary. Ben has a long way to go for this comparison to hold up, but you can't deny the potential, nor can you deny the fact that Ben has a pretty good record in the W vs L dept. This year is definately his worst, but it doesnt mean he hasnt turned a corner.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

If you put David Carr on the Steelers he'd be pretty good. That's what I'll say.

 

[chris1969]

It depends on the week, but I've seen both. Remember that the guy is young and could eventually turn into a Pro-Bowler, but he's inconsistent and has a few things to work on.

 

[Peyton Marino]

Now I am by no means the absolute definitive judge of talent here

obviously not, since the only thing you mention in your post is statistics.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Now I am by no means the absolute definitive judge of talent here

obviously not, since the only thing you mention in your post is statistics.

sorry i didnt throw out some amazing statements like he is a born leader and he really slaps his teamates on the ### with the best of them. also i do make mention of his ability to lead the team back when he puts them in a hole and talk about playing well on the road and playing poorly after injuries. I also talk about decision making, his size, and his lack of consistency.As a fan who can only watch on TV, I would be pulling stuff out of my bunghole if I talked about anything else. It cracks me up when people like you talk about QBs being born winners, leaders, or even cancers as if they KNOW 100% that he is. You arent in the huddle, you arent in the team meetings, you arent in the other players heads to know for a fact they look up to him or down on him. Get over yourself.

 

[BGP]

If what you're trying to say is that Ben was overhyped into the stratosphere, then I agree. For some reason, we've seen mega-hype with a succession of Steeler QBs. There were times where if you told a Steeler fan that Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, or Ben was not the best QB in the NFL, they'd be ready to go berserk. I would think a lot of fans here HAVE to remember the mega-hype circling Kordell Stewart, since it happened during the internet FFL age.

Once that perception was shattered, you saw the pendulum of emotion swing the other way for all three. They were mocked.

In Ben's case, he is the most talented of the three. I think unlike the others he has the talent to put together an average career in the NFL. However, Ben strikes me as somewhat immature. The real concern is that he is injury-prone.

I've repeatedly said on this forum that I view him as another Jim McMahon. He's got probably a little too much spunk in him like the former Bears QB. And he shares the injury bug. McMahon had that one season where he was healthy, then constantly got hurt over and over.

I could see the same career path. The injuries force the Steelers to let him go and he bounces around from team to team as a sometimes starter, often backup.

 

[Your Mom]

If you put David Carr on the Steelers he'd be pretty good. That's what I'll say.

 

[Sea Bass]

There is such a wide variety of opinions on Ben that is difficult to determine if he is overhyped or not. If you see him as an equal to David Carr then you probably have an accurate grasp of his play. He was given way too much credit for the Super Bowl victory, and too much blame for this season.

 

[jetpack]

If you put David Carr on the Steelers he'd be pretty good. That's what I'll say.

What a bunch of lazy armchair QB analysis....

 

[Morton Muffley]

File this under "I told you so"

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&hl=muffley

Way back when FBG had Big Ben ranked as the 23rd best QB, I posted the above saying that he should be valued as the 12th best QB in the league with upside to get in the top ten. I also said he'd finish with 3500/22/14 and was soundly mocked.

Well, here we are at week 16 and FBG has him rated as the 12 best QB and he's on pace to finish right around where I said he would.

The problem with this board IMO is that people either love a guy (top 5) or hate him (bottom 10), but few recognize in-season value like Big Ben presented earlier this year. Note that for those of us in 2QB leagues Big Ben was tremendous value.

FWIW, I also called Warner as underrated mid-season last year and was roundly mocked for that call as well.

Oh well, enough patting myself on the back, let the mocking begin (again)!

 

[B-Scott]

Neil Odonnel and Kordell Stewart had great defenses and great running games also ,and they couldnt get the steelers over the hump and win the Super Bowl .Big Ben got them over the hump.

 

[Tau837]

File this under "I told you so"

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&hl=muffley

Way back when FBG had Big Ben ranked as the 23rd best QB, I posted the above saying that he should be valued as the 12th best QB in the league with upside to get in the top ten. I also said he'd finish with 3500/22/14 and was soundly mocked.

Well, here we are at week 16 and FBG has him rated as the 12 best QB and he's on pace to finish right around where I said he would.

The problem with this board IMO is that people either love a guy (top 5) or hate him (bottom 10), but few recognize in-season value like Big Ben presented earlier this year. Note that for those of us in 2QB leagues Big Ben was tremendous value.

FWIW, I also called Warner as underrated mid-season last year and was roundly mocked for that call as well.

Oh well, enough patting myself on the back, let the mocking begin (again)!

Here was my post in that thread:

I think he'll finish the year 3500/22/14

That will be tough, considering his start and the fact that he has only 14 games remaining. He won't be able to miss any more time, whether due to injury or due to the Steelers clinching early (probably unlikely).And he has a tough schedule remaining--FBG has it as the 5th toughest schedule remaining for a QB. (You guys do know that the SOS is a factor in the 250 forward, right?)

He has 141 passing yards after 2 games, so he'll have to average 240 passing yards per game. Ben has reached 240 passing yards 4 times in 33 career games, including postseason games. Whether you want to attribute that to him or Cowher, it doesn't matter... this looks very unlikely.

He has 0 TDs after 2 games, so he'll have to average 1.6 per game. He has had multiple passing TDs in 16 of 33 career games, including postseason games, so this looks more achievable. However, he has averaged 1.3 passing TDs per game in his career, so he'll have to pick it up. I'd say this is possible but unlikely.

He has 2 interceptions after 2 games, so he'll have to average less than 1 per game. He has 30 interceptions in 33 career games, including postseason games, so this will be close. The problem here is that you have to assume Cowher opens up the offense for Ben to reach the passing yards and TDs, and with that will likely come more frequent interceptions.

All in all:

Looking at the past 4 weeks, it appears Roethlisberger will end up with around 3500 passing yards, 18 passing TDs, and 22 interceptions... although he still has Baltimore and Cincy on the road, so it wouldn't be surprising if the final numbers are a bit worse than that. So you may have nailed the passing yards but probably won't be that close on TDs and interceptions. I'm not sure it warrants patting yourself on the back. That said, Ben has rebounded a bit better than I expected. As for his long term prospects, IMO it depends a lot on who replaces Cowher when he steps down after this season, and how the new coaching philosophy works for him. Many appear to assume that opening up the offense will help him, and it may well do that... but we don't know, since he has played most of his career in a conservative but very effective offense.

I think he will be effective, but not elite, as an NFL QB... below Pro Bowl quality generally speaking. As a fantasy QB, I think he'll be a weak QB1 and strong QB2. No real news there, as I believe that has largely been the consensus on him to date.

 

[BGP]

Neil Odonnel and Kordell Stewart had great defenses and great running games also ,and they couldnt get the steelers over the hump and win the Super Bowl .Big Ben got them over the hump.

Well, Ben had a larger meltdown in the Super Bowl than Neil O'Donnell did. And Kordell melted down in the playoffs.

 

[Morton Muffley]

File this under "I told you so"

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&hl=muffley

Way back when FBG had Big Ben ranked as the 23rd best QB, I posted the above saying that he should be valued as the 12th best QB in the league with upside to get in the top ten. I also said he'd finish with 3500/22/14 and was soundly mocked.

Well, here we are at week 16 and FBG has him rated as the 12 best QB and he's on pace to finish right around where I said he would.

The problem with this board IMO is that people either love a guy (top 5) or hate him (bottom 10), but few recognize in-season value like Big Ben presented earlier this year. Note that for those of us in 2QB leagues Big Ben was tremendous value.

FWIW, I also called Warner as underrated mid-season last year and was roundly mocked for that call as well.

Oh well, enough patting myself on the back, let the mocking begin (again)!

Here was my post in that thread:

I think he'll finish the year 3500/22/14

That will be tough, considering his start and the fact that he has only 14 games remaining. He won't be able to miss any more time, whether due to injury or due to the Steelers clinching early (probably unlikely).And he has a tough schedule remaining--FBG has it as the 5th toughest schedule remaining for a QB. (You guys do know that the SOS is a factor in the 250 forward, right?)

He has 141 passing yards after 2 games, so he'll have to average 240 passing yards per game. Ben has reached 240 passing yards 4 times in 33 career games, including postseason games. Whether you want to attribute that to him or Cowher, it doesn't matter... this looks very unlikely.

He has 0 TDs after 2 games, so he'll have to average 1.6 per game. He has had multiple passing TDs in 16 of 33 career games, including postseason games, so this looks more achievable. However, he has averaged 1.3 passing TDs per game in his career, so he'll have to pick it up. I'd say this is possible but unlikely.

He has 2 interceptions after 2 games, so he'll have to average less than 1 per game. He has 30 interceptions in 33 career games, including postseason games, so this will be close. The problem here is that you have to assume Cowher opens up the offense for Ben to reach the passing yards and TDs, and with that will likely come more frequent interceptions.

All in all:

Looking at the past 4 weeks, it appears Roethlisberger will end up with around 3500 passing yards, 18 passing TDs, and 22 interceptions... although he still has Baltimore and Cincy on the road, so it wouldn't be surprising if the final numbers are a bit worse than that. So you may have nailed the passing yards but probably won't be that close on TDs and interceptions. I'm not sure it warrants patting yourself on the back. That said, Ben has rebounded a bit better than I expected. As for his long term prospects, IMO it depends a lot on who replaces Cowher when he steps down after this season, and how the new coaching philosophy works for him. Many appear to assume that opening up the offense will help him, and it may well do that... but we don't know, since he has played most of his career in a conservative but very effective offense.

I think he will be effective, but not elite, as an NFL QB... below Pro Bowl quality generally speaking. As a fantasy QB, I think he'll be a weak QB1 and strong QB2. No real news there, as I believe that has largely been the consensus on him to date.

I'll admit he's gonna throw well above the 16 INTs I predicted, but the yards will be on target and TDs are TDs so let's not fail to give him credit for his rushing TDs. He's got 18 TDs now with two games left, so 3500/22 is within reach...but the bigger point I was trying to make is that FBG had him ranked as the 23rd best QB at the time and I thought that was dead wrong and called it as such. I always argued that he was borderline #1 and was lambasted for that...maybe not by you, but others in that thread felt that his #23 ranking was correct and still other felt that he was WORSE than #23.

 

[EBF]

There is such a wide variety of opinions on Ben that is difficult to determine if he is overhyped or not. If you see him as an equal to David Carr then you probably have an accurate grasp of his play.

 

[pizzatyme]

I think Ben is neither over or under rated. For me he is a middle of the pack guy. I mean there are probably 15 or so QB's I'd rather have than him and that puts him middle of the road.

No disrespect meant at all. The dude has a SB ring. He is young and still has many miles. Like most others, his place in the minds of fans will be dependent on his opportunity. If the Steelers open up their playbook in the years to come, then Ben stands a chance to get to top 10 maybe even top 5.

In his current setup, I'd say he is on the outside of top 10 and looking in.

Very good QB in an offense that is run oriented.

 

[Godsbrother]

The dude still had QB ratings over 98 in his first two seasons (in the top 3 both years), has a 5-1 playoff record, and a SB ring. What a lot of people don't remember that if not for Roethlisberger last season the Steelers don't even make the SB.

I doubt very much there are 15 QBs better than him in the NFL but everyone is entitled to their opinion. The one thing that is fact is that he has had a better start to his career than all of the other QBs in the league with the exception of Tom Brady. We'll have to see how the rest of his career goes.

As far as being injury prone goes he didn't miss any games due to injury his first season (played 17 games). He missed four last year due to in-season knee surgery (still played 16 games). This past summer he had major surgery when he smashed his face into moving vehicle and had it not been for an appendectomy the week before the season started he wouldn't have missed a single game this season. Even with the appendectomy he still only missed one game (14 games thus far). That is 47 games in his first three seasons in the league.

And it is not like Roethlisberger is playing behind a great pass protecting line. Thus far this season he has been sacked over 40 times. I think the guy has proven he is pretty tough.

 

[-OZ-]

FWIW, over the past 6 weeks, he's been the #10 QB in the league I have him. #13 for the season, including missing a game and playing horribly his first 3. Since then, He's averaged 18 ppg, roughly equal to Bulger and Palmer for the year, around #5.

I realize if you take the worst pack of games from most QBs, you'd get interesting results too, but considering his injuries this off season, I'd say he's underrated.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

If you put David Carr on the Steelers he'd be pretty good. That's what I'll say.

But the big question is this: "If you put Big Ben on the Texans what would he be like?"My answer is: MUCH better than David Carr!! I think Ben is highly underrated and am targeting him in my dynasty leagues (I have him in one of them already) this offseason.

 

[parasaurolophus]

this really was meant more as an NFL perspective thread, but the fantasy disrespect angle is another thing to look at. His last ten weeks in my league have been 21,27,18,23,28,24, 8,19,21,18-207.

Bulgers last ten(Bulger is currently 5th in my league)-21,32,25,21,8,5,14,24,32,5-187.

Not only does big ben have more points over the last 10 weeks, he has actually been way more consistent as well.

With all of the QBs ahead of him ranked 11th to 5th in my league you can actually draw the same comparisons.

Would I say that big ben is a top 6-7 fantasy QB? No. However if you drafted Big Ben where he should have gone, which was very late. You have been starting a top 6-7 fantasy QB over the last ten weeks if you were able to have the foresight to put him in your lineup over whoever you drafted above him. I would say that is pretty great production from somebody who was acquired in double digit rounds or as a throw in with a trade.

 

[yinzer]

I was worried about him for a while this year. He was playing like David Carr - a scared QB. He seems to have snapped out of it, and he's back to putting up decent numbers despite having few attempts. Ben is extremely efficient with the opportunity he does get - If YPA was a fantasy stat, Ben would be a stud. He's got good targets in Ward, Holmes, Miller, and the supporting cast behind them. He even runs for a TD here and there and should be more active in that respect next year once he's completely over his injuries.

I see him as an acceptable, but weak QB1 right now - better suited to be a great QB2 - but with upside to enter the mid QB1 echelon if the team becomes less conservative in the future.

The best point made in this whole post. Prior to this year, Ben averaged 8.88 YPA (2004) and 8.90 YPA (2005). The only QB to have a better YPA during either year was Peyton during his record breaking 2004 year (9.17 YPA). Like Sigmund said, this isn't per completion folks, this is per attempt, basically meaning Roeth was THE MOST efficient QB over 2 yearsAisde from that, it looks like he'll throw for nearly 1000 more yards this year compared to his career best, and will almost certainly have a career best in TD's, despite missing 1 and a half games (high scoring ATL game missed 2nd half) and getting hit by a Chrysler New Yorker, oh, 6 months ago. Granted, he's thrown many more INT's this year but I see that more as a result of poor decision making and quick reactions opposed to an increase in passing attempts. These occurrences are almost certainly related to his strenuous offseason IMO as well.

Just reading these posts, it's clear that those who know what they're talking about know Roeth is ~#12 QB w/ only upside fantasy wise, and certainly better strictly football wise which is exhibited by his track record. Even despite the offseason turmoil, missing time, and point subtractions from INT's, that's where he's at now basically. It looks to me like he's finally getting healthier and accordingly he seems to be more protective of the ball recently. Prior to this year, ZERO red zone turnovers, this year, I'd say 4-5 from what I can recall and none in the last few games.

As someone else posted, he's been very consistent the last 8 weeks or so despite some tough matchups, Hines Ward being injured for a large time period, and the OLine not playing up to their usual standards many games. Like we usually say, those who end the year hot should be remembered for next years draft. Lets see what happens VS. BAL and CIN, but he's certainly looking good for next year. Added bonus, Heath and Holmes should only improve and it wouldn't suprise me to see a new #3 WR (via FA or draft).

 

[Tau837]

this really was meant more as an NFL perspective thread, but the fantasy disrespect angle is another thing to look at. His last ten weeks in my league have been 21,27,18,23,28,24, 8,19,21,18-207. Bulgers last ten(Bulger is currently 5th in my league)-21,32,25,21,8,5,14,24,32,5-187.Not only does big ben have more points over the last 10 weeks, he has actually been way more consistent as well.With all of the QBs ahead of him ranked 11th to 5th in my league you can actually draw the same comparisons. Would I say that big ben is a top 6-7 fantasy QB? No. However if you drafted Big Ben where he should have gone, which was very late. You have been starting a top 6-7 fantasy QB over the last ten weeks if you were able to have the foresight to put him in your lineup over whoever you drafted above him. I would say that is pretty great production from somebody who was acquired in double digit rounds or as a throw in with a trade.

Why 10 weeks? Because that leaves off his worst 3 games of the season? It's true that his 10 weeks have been good and shown improvement compared to the first 3 weeks, but that is a pretty convenient cutoff.These QBs still have more fantasy points on the season (FBG scoring): Peyton Manning, Brees, Vick, Palmer, Bulger, Kitna, McNabb, Brady, Favre, Eli Manning, Grossman, Rivers. That said, he's only 12 fantasy points behind Favre, who is ranked 9th right now (and has already played this week).For next season, won't most of those QBs still be ranked ahead of Ben as a fantasy QB? And don't forget Romo, Hasselbeck, and Trent Green, all of whom have missed time. And maybe Culpepper, Young, Leinart, all of whom could improve substantially...My point isn't to come up with a ranking, but more to illustrate that Ben doesn't stand out as a great fantasy QB right now. He is a top 20 QB, but it's hard to say definitively that he should be top 15, top 12, top 10 going into next season. He may be a good value pick next season, but I'd be hesitant to count on him as my QB1 without another quality option.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

He may be a good value pick next season, but I'd be hesitant to count on him as my QB1 without another quality option.

 

[yinzer]

I think anybody counting on starting Roeth would be going by QBBC and likely draft him and 1-2 more QBs in rounds 8-11, give or take a round. While he probably is about #12 QB as is right now, usually if you have the worst starter at a position you're going to back it up with depth so you don't misstep too much.

 

[pizzatyme]

I think Ben is neither over or under rated. For me he is a middle of the pack guy. I mean there are probably 15 or so QB's I'd rather have than him and that puts him middle of the road.No disrespect meant at all. The dude has a SB ring. He is young and still has many miles. Like most others, his place in the minds of fans will be dependent on his opportunity. If the Steelers open up their playbook in the years to come, then Ben stands a chance to get to top 10 maybe even top 5.In his current setup, I'd say he is on the outside of top 10 and looking in.Very good QB in an offense that is run oriented.

I wanted to revisit this and see if there were in fact 15 QBs I'd rather have in a redraft league than Big Ben. Here is what I came up witheyton Manning Tom Brady Donovan McNabbMarc Bulger Drew Brees Carson PalmerTony RomoMichael Vick Matt Leinart Matt Hasselbeck Eli Manning Chad Pennington Jay Cutler Vince YoungPhilip Rivers 16-Ben RoethlisbergerThat is where I'd put it. Like I said, if the Steelers open up their playbook Big Ben could move into the top 10.

 

[yinzer]

I think Ben is neither over or under rated. For me he is a middle of the pack guy. I mean there are probably 15 or so QB's I'd rather have than him and that puts him middle of the road.

No disrespect meant at all. The dude has a SB ring. He is young and still has many miles. Like most others, his place in the minds of fans will be dependent on his opportunity. If the Steelers open up their playbook in the years to come, then Ben stands a chance to get to top 10 maybe even top 5.

In his current setup, I'd say he is on the outside of top 10 and looking in.

Very good QB in an offense that is run oriented.

I wanted to revisit this and see if there were in fact 15 QBs I'd rather have in a redraft league than Big Ben. Here is what I came up witheyton Manning

Tom Brady

Donovan McNabb

Marc Bulger

Drew Brees

Carson Palmer

Tony Romo

Michael Vick

Matt Leinart

Matt Hasselbeck

Eli Manning

Chad Pennington

Jay Cutler

Vince Young

Philip Rivers

16-Ben Roethlisberger

That is where I'd put it. Like I said, if the Steelers open up their playbook Big Ben could move into the top 10.

I'd say those 3 are a bit of a stretch to put ahead of Roeth considering what they've done previously/so far. He's a lot more consistent than guys like Vick (who I bet you didn't have ahead of Roeth prior to this yr unless it was bc of injury), Young, Rivers, and Hasselbeck too.Consistency is very underrated IMO too. Could be the difference b/n a 9-4 FF record and 7-6.

Keep in mind Holmes will get better by next year and Hines will be finally healthy after an injury plagued year that he's battled since training camp.

 

[SteelerMurf]

this really was meant more as an NFL perspective thread, but the fantasy disrespect angle is another thing to look at. His last ten weeks in my league have been 21,27,18,23,28,24, 8,19,21,18-207. Bulgers last ten(Bulger is currently 5th in my league)-21,32,25,21,8,5,14,24,32,5-187.Not only does big ben have more points over the last 10 weeks, he has actually been way more consistent as well.With all of the QBs ahead of him ranked 11th to 5th in my league you can actually draw the same comparisons. Would I say that big ben is a top 6-7 fantasy QB? No. However if you drafted Big Ben where he should have gone, which was very late. You have been starting a top 6-7 fantasy QB over the last ten weeks if you were able to have the foresight to put him in your lineup over whoever you drafted above him. I would say that is pretty great production from somebody who was acquired in double digit rounds or as a throw in with a trade.

Why 10 weeks? Because that leaves off his worst 3 games of the season? It's true that his 10 weeks have been good and shown improvement compared to the first 3 weeks, but that is a pretty convenient cutoff.These QBs still have more fantasy points on the season (FBG scoring): Peyton Manning, Brees, Vick, Palmer, Bulger, Kitna, McNabb, Brady, Favre, Eli Manning, Grossman, Rivers. That said, he's only 12 fantasy points behind Favre, who is ranked 9th right now (and has already played this week).For next season, won't most of those QBs still be ranked ahead of Ben as a fantasy QB? And don't forget Romo, Hasselbeck, and Trent Green, all of whom have missed time. And maybe Culpepper, Young, Leinart, all of whom could improve substantially...My point isn't to come up with a ranking, but more to illustrate that Ben doesn't stand out as a great fantasy QB right now. He is a top 20 QB, but it's hard to say definitively that he should be top 15, top 12, top 10 going into next season. He may be a good value pick next season, but I'd be hesitant to count on him as my QB1 without another quality option.

He can use 10 weeks cause Ben was not healthy the first half of the season. Hasn't that become obvious over the stretch of the 2nd half of the season? It's only cause everyone has burned into their head the first few games back from a motorcycle accident, appendix removal and then a few weeks later a concussion. He played bad then, he had a lot of mental issues going on. Kinda just like Palmer did. He looked shakey until he got fully health they 2nd half of this season.In summary he can use the last 10 weeks by showing you his stats when healthy. I don't see a problem with that. Going into next season, I take a look at the 2nd half of the season to project to the next season. I rank hot players from years end higher than a guy like Eli Manning who only put up good numbers at the beginning of the season. Like if you flip-flopped Kitna's fantasy numbers this year. He would be a hot QB to wait on and start as your #1 next season. Now he is barely going to be drafted.And you know what you get with a healthy Ben???? Last 2 weeks he has rushed for TDs. He runs a good bootleg.

 

[gman74]

The dude has a 5-1 playoff record, and a SB ring that the defense and refs won for him. What a lot of people don't remember that if not for the defense and a ton of luck last season the Steelers don't even make the SB.

i fixed it for you godsbrother

dude is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overated

 

[Godsbrother]

The dude has a 5-1 playoff record, and a SB ring that the defense and refs won for him. What a lot of people don't remember that if not for the defense and a ton of luck last season the Steelers don't even make the SB.

i fixed it for you godsbrother

dude is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overated

Why don't fix your own posts -- trying to figure out how to use the quote function would be a good place to start.

 

[Tau837]

this really was meant more as an NFL perspective thread, but the fantasy disrespect angle is another thing to look at. His last ten weeks in my league have been 21,27,18,23,28,24, 8,19,21,18-207. Bulgers last ten(Bulger is currently 5th in my league)-21,32,25,21,8,5,14,24,32,5-187.Not only does big ben have more points over the last 10 weeks, he has actually been way more consistent as well.With all of the QBs ahead of him ranked 11th to 5th in my league you can actually draw the same comparisons. Would I say that big ben is a top 6-7 fantasy QB? No. However if you drafted Big Ben where he should have gone, which was very late. You have been starting a top 6-7 fantasy QB over the last ten weeks if you were able to have the foresight to put him in your lineup over whoever you drafted above him. I would say that is pretty great production from somebody who was acquired in double digit rounds or as a throw in with a trade.

Why 10 weeks? Because that leaves off his worst 3 games of the season? It's true that his 10 weeks have been good and shown improvement compared to the first 3 weeks, but that is a pretty convenient cutoff.These QBs still have more fantasy points on the season (FBG scoring): Peyton Manning, Brees, Vick, Palmer, Bulger, Kitna, McNabb, Brady, Favre, Eli Manning, Grossman, Rivers. That said, he's only 12 fantasy points behind Favre, who is ranked 9th right now (and has already played this week).For next season, won't most of those QBs still be ranked ahead of Ben as a fantasy QB? And don't forget Romo, Hasselbeck, and Trent Green, all of whom have missed time. And maybe Culpepper, Young, Leinart, all of whom could improve substantially...My point isn't to come up with a ranking, but more to illustrate that Ben doesn't stand out as a great fantasy QB right now. He is a top 20 QB, but it's hard to say definitively that he should be top 15, top 12, top 10 going into next season. He may be a good value pick next season, but I'd be hesitant to count on him as my QB1 without another quality option.

He can use 10 weeks cause Ben was not healthy the first half of the season. Hasn't that become obvious over the stretch of the 2nd half of the season? It's only cause everyone has burned into their head the first few games back from a motorcycle accident, appendix removal and then a few weeks later a concussion. He played bad then, he had a lot of mental issues going on. Kinda just like Palmer did. He looked shakey until he got fully health they 2nd half of this season.In summary he can use the last 10 weeks by showing you his stats when healthy. I don't see a problem with that. Going into next season, I take a look at the 2nd half of the season to project to the next season. I rank hot players from years end higher than a guy like Eli Manning who only put up good numbers at the beginning of the season. Like if you flip-flopped Kitna's fantasy numbers this year. He would be a hot QB to wait on and start as your #1 next season. Now he is barely going to be drafted.And you know what you get with a healthy Ben???? Last 2 weeks he has rushed for TDs. He runs a good bootleg.

Why exactly did he suddenly become healthy between the week 5 game and the week 6 game? Which day did he get healthy, exactly? Tuesday? or was it Thursday?

 

[poopdawg]

The dude has a 5-1 playoff record, and a SB ring that the defense and refs won for him. What a lot of people don't remember that if not for the defense and a ton of luck last season the Steelers don't even make the SB.

i fixed it for you godsbrother

dude is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overated

Youre right. He had absolutely nothing to do with the road wins against Cincy, Indy, and Denver. Youre a joke.....

 

[SteelerMurf]

this really was meant more as an NFL perspective thread, but the fantasy disrespect angle is another thing to look at. His last ten weeks in my league have been 21,27,18,23,28,24, 8,19,21,18-207. Bulgers last ten(Bulger is currently 5th in my league)-21,32,25,21,8,5,14,24,32,5-187.Not only does big ben have more points over the last 10 weeks, he has actually been way more consistent as well.With all of the QBs ahead of him ranked 11th to 5th in my league you can actually draw the same comparisons. Would I say that big ben is a top 6-7 fantasy QB? No. However if you drafted Big Ben where he should have gone, which was very late. You have been starting a top 6-7 fantasy QB over the last ten weeks if you were able to have the foresight to put him in your lineup over whoever you drafted above him. I would say that is pretty great production from somebody who was acquired in double digit rounds or as a throw in with a trade.

Why 10 weeks? Because that leaves off his worst 3 games of the season? It's true that his 10 weeks have been good and shown improvement compared to the first 3 weeks, but that is a pretty convenient cutoff.These QBs still have more fantasy points on the season (FBG scoring): Peyton Manning, Brees, Vick, Palmer, Bulger, Kitna, McNabb, Brady, Favre, Eli Manning, Grossman, Rivers. That said, he's only 12 fantasy points behind Favre, who is ranked 9th right now (and has already played this week).For next season, won't most of those QBs still be ranked ahead of Ben as a fantasy QB? And don't forget Romo, Hasselbeck, and Trent Green, all of whom have missed time. And maybe Culpepper, Young, Leinart, all of whom could improve substantially...My point isn't to come up with a ranking, but more to illustrate that Ben doesn't stand out as a great fantasy QB right now. He is a top 20 QB, but it's hard to say definitively that he should be top 15, top 12, top 10 going into next season. He may be a good value pick next season, but I'd be hesitant to count on him as my QB1 without another quality option.

He can use 10 weeks cause Ben was not healthy the first half of the season. Hasn't that become obvious over the stretch of the 2nd half of the season? It's only cause everyone has burned into their head the first few games back from a motorcycle accident, appendix removal and then a few weeks later a concussion. He played bad then, he had a lot of mental issues going on. Kinda just like Palmer did. He looked shakey until he got fully health they 2nd half of this season.In summary he can use the last 10 weeks by showing you his stats when healthy. I don't see a problem with that. Going into next season, I take a look at the 2nd half of the season to project to the next season. I rank hot players from years end higher than a guy like Eli Manning who only put up good numbers at the beginning of the season. Like if you flip-flopped Kitna's fantasy numbers this year. He would be a hot QB to wait on and start as your #1 next season. Now he is barely going to be drafted.And you know what you get with a healthy Ben???? Last 2 weeks he has rushed for TDs. He runs a good bootleg.

Why exactly did he suddenly become healthy between the week 5 game and the week 6 game? Which day did he get healthy, exactly? Tuesday? or was it Thursday?

so you think he was healthy to start the season hun? Brilliant. Maybe you were away when he nearly died and then had his appendix removed right before the season started. But, nah he was healthy.

 

[Tau837]

this really was meant more as an NFL perspective thread, but the fantasy disrespect angle is another thing to look at. His last ten weeks in my league have been 21,27,18,23,28,24, 8,19,21,18-207. Bulgers last ten(Bulger is currently 5th in my league)-21,32,25,21,8,5,14,24,32,5-187.Not only does big ben have more points over the last 10 weeks, he has actually been way more consistent as well.With all of the QBs ahead of him ranked 11th to 5th in my league you can actually draw the same comparisons. Would I say that big ben is a top 6-7 fantasy QB? No. However if you drafted Big Ben where he should have gone, which was very late. You have been starting a top 6-7 fantasy QB over the last ten weeks if you were able to have the foresight to put him in your lineup over whoever you drafted above him. I would say that is pretty great production from somebody who was acquired in double digit rounds or as a throw in with a trade.

Why 10 weeks? Because that leaves off his worst 3 games of the season? It's true that his 10 weeks have been good and shown improvement compared to the first 3 weeks, but that is a pretty convenient cutoff.These QBs still have more fantasy points on the season (FBG scoring): Peyton Manning, Brees, Vick, Palmer, Bulger, Kitna, McNabb, Brady, Favre, Eli Manning, Grossman, Rivers. That said, he's only 12 fantasy points behind Favre, who is ranked 9th right now (and has already played this week).For next season, won't most of those QBs still be ranked ahead of Ben as a fantasy QB? And don't forget Romo, Hasselbeck, and Trent Green, all of whom have missed time. And maybe Culpepper, Young, Leinart, all of whom could improve substantially...My point isn't to come up with a ranking, but more to illustrate that Ben doesn't stand out as a great fantasy QB right now. He is a top 20 QB, but it's hard to say definitively that he should be top 15, top 12, top 10 going into next season. He may be a good value pick next season, but I'd be hesitant to count on him as my QB1 without another quality option.

He can use 10 weeks cause Ben was not healthy the first half of the season. Hasn't that become obvious over the stretch of the 2nd half of the season? It's only cause everyone has burned into their head the first few games back from a motorcycle accident, appendix removal and then a few weeks later a concussion. He played bad then, he had a lot of mental issues going on. Kinda just like Palmer did. He looked shakey until he got fully health they 2nd half of this season.In summary he can use the last 10 weeks by showing you his stats when healthy. I don't see a problem with that. Going into next season, I take a look at the 2nd half of the season to project to the next season. I rank hot players from years end higher than a guy like Eli Manning who only put up good numbers at the beginning of the season. Like if you flip-flopped Kitna's fantasy numbers this year. He would be a hot QB to wait on and start as your #1 next season. Now he is barely going to be drafted.And you know what you get with a healthy Ben???? Last 2 weeks he has rushed for TDs. He runs a good bootleg.

Why exactly did he suddenly become healthy between the week 5 game and the week 6 game? Which day did he get healthy, exactly? Tuesday? or was it Thursday?

so you think he was healthy to start the season hun? Brilliant. Maybe you were away when he nearly died and then had his appendix removed right before the season started. But, nah he was healthy.

That's not what I said. Obviously he was affected. It is just very convenient to say that after his 3 dismal games, and in time for his first good game, that is when he became healthy again. Whatever. I'm not interested in arguing further about it.If you think he's a great fantasy QB, more power to you. I'll stay away next season unless I can draft him in the range of the 15th QB or later... and then I'll make sure I have another good quality QB to pair with him.

 

[gman74]

The dude has a 5-1 playoff record, and a SB ring that the defense and refs won for him. What a lot of people don't remember that if not for the defense and a ton of luck last season the Steelers don't even make the SB.

i fixed it for you godsbrother

dude is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overated

Youre right. He had absolutely nothing to do with the road wins against Cincy, Indy, and Denver. Youre a joke.....

he is just another dilfer had a great d middle of the road qb at best what part of that is hard to understand. its not the worst thing in the world. i think most people agree that there are probley atleast 8-10 or more qbs that are better than him. again not the worst thing in the world. get over yourself

 

[Ghost Rider]

he is just another dilfer

Stupid comments like this are exactly why Roethlisberger is underrated.

 

[Jous]

he is just another dilfer

Stupid comments like this are exactly why Roethlisberger is underrated.

Yep. One thing that strikes me as very interesting is the extreme reversal on the perception of Roethlisberger by a lot of people. For a while, the media hyped him, and pretty much everyone for a while thought he was great and had limitless potential.Now, it seems, there are so many people who say that he's "overrated", that the reversal has happened and he's actually becoming UNDERRATED. People are over-analyzing his play too much and his first 2 seasons too much. It cannot be denied that he played brilliantly in his first 2 seasons for the most part, but people are trying too hard to analyze just why he did so well, and coming up with "overrated" thoughts. The fact is...good QB's play well. Ben played well. Bad QB's play poorly. That's all there is to it. Ben was great in his first 2 seasons, and while he's struggled this year more, he did have the most serious set of injuries out of ANY QB in the leagu heading into the year, but still as of lately his play has begun to pick up again.It's ridiculous to say he's another Dilfer. Dilfer is a terrible QB who can't hold a job with an NFL team. Even in his best season, 2000, Roethlisberger has been much better than Dilfer was.I'd put Roethlisberger at around #8 of QB's, in real life. In terms of fantasy I have no idea where he'd be. He's certainly no Dilfer, a journeyman traveling from team to team with mediocre play. Roethlisberger will be a Steeler for 10 more years, and I would certainly not put it past him to win another SuperBowl and go to 2 or 3 Pro Bowls in his career.

 

[poopdawg]

he is just another dilfer

Stupid comments like this are exactly why Roethlisberger is underrated.

 

[Godsbrother]

he is just another dilfer had a great d middle of the road qb at best what part of that is hard to understand. its not the worst thing in the world. i think most people agree that there are probley atleast 8-10 or more qbs that are better than him. again not the worst thing in the world. get over yourself

Well, let's see. In 2000 Dilfer's passer rating in the regular season was 76.6, Roethlisberger's was 98.6. In the 2000 playoffs Dilfer threw for 590 yards (147 avg) and 3 TDs. Last year in the playoffs Roethlisberger threw for 803 yards (200 avg) and 7 TDs (also ran for 2 TDs).Yep, they are about the same.

 

[gman74]

he is just another dilfer

Stupid comments like this are exactly why Roethlisberger is underrated.

you and godsbrother are homers and i respect that. just because you are on a superbowl winning team does not make you a great qb. great qbs like marino never won a superbowl and a great qb in manning as of yet has not won one. but the way you 2 represent yourselfs on here makes philly fan look good. but i do understand why steeler fan hangs with bated breath on the team because the rest of your teams stink and will always stinkso enjoy your 1 trick pony.

 

[SteelerMurf]

he is just another dilfer

Stupid comments like this are exactly why Roethlisberger is underrated.

you and godsbrother are homers and i respect that. just because you are on a superbowl winning team does not make you a great qb. great qbs like marino never won a superbowl and a great qb in manning as of yet has not won one. but the way you 2 represent yourselfs on here makes philly fan look good. but i do understand why steeler fan hangs with bated breath on the team because the rest of your teams stink and will always stinkso enjoy your 1 trick pony.

You know this guy has lost this debate when he has to wrap it up by saying the Penguins and Pirates suck, so enjoy your good football team.

 

[jetpack]

he is just another dilfer

Stupid comments like this are exactly why Roethlisberger is underrated.

you and godsbrother are homers and i respect that. just because you are on a superbowl winning team does not make you a great qb. great qbs like marino never won a superbowl and a great qb in manning as of yet has not won one. but the way you 2 represent yourselfs on here makes philly fan look good. but i do understand why steeler fan hangs with bated breath on the team because the rest of your teams stink and will always stinkso enjoy your 1 trick pony.

Wow, and with that the Roethlisberger detractors have completely embarrassed themselves in this thread. No analysis, no good arguments - just vague comparrisons and weak schtick.

 

[poopdawg]

he is just another dilfer

Stupid comments like this are exactly why Roethlisberger is underrated.

you and godsbrother are homers and i respect that. just because you are on a superbowl winning team does not make you a great qb. great qbs like marino never won a superbowl and a great qb in manning as of yet has not won one. but the way you 2 represent yourselfs on here makes philly fan look good. but i do understand why steeler fan hangs with bated breath on the team because the rest of your teams stink and will always stinkso enjoy your 1 trick pony.

Your hatred for the Steelers prevents you from making any sort of intelligent discussion in any threads I have seen and very rarely do you contribute anything of substance. Im not saying that he is Peyton Manning and Im not denying the fact that Ben was horrid in the SB last year. He had a bad game. It happens. But no one remembers what he did in the three games to get them there. Quite possibly one of the greatest runs for a QB in the playoffs. For a QB who was on the verge of death only a few short months ago, I think he'll be just fine. I can probably only think of 10 or so QBs at the most that any GM in the NFL would rather have on their team. And as for Godsbrother, he happens to be one of the most practical posters on this board as far as useful information. Most anyone will tell you that. Even some Steeler haters. But when someone makes a statement as assinine as comparing Ben to Dilfer, then expect a response.

 

[poopdawg]

he is just another dilfer

Stupid comments like this are exactly why Roethlisberger is underrated.

you and godsbrother are homers and i respect that. just because you are on a superbowl winning team does not make you a great qb. great qbs like marino never won a superbowl and a great qb in manning as of yet has not won one. but the way you 2 represent yourselfs on here makes philly fan look good. but i do understand why steeler fan hangs with bated breath on the team because the rest of your teams stink and will always stinkso enjoy your 1 trick pony.

You know this guy has lost this debate when he has to wrap it up by saying the Penguins and Pirates suck, so enjoy your good football team.

Even so, the Penguins are stepping in the right direction. Just hope they can stay in Pittsburgh. Sorry, I know this is off the topic.

 

[gman74]

he is just another dilfer

Stupid comments like this are exactly why Roethlisberger is underrated.

you and godsbrother are homers and i respect that. just because you are on a superbowl winning team does not make you a great qb. great qbs like marino never won a superbowl and a great qb in manning as of yet has not won one. but the way you 2 represent yourselfs on here makes philly fan look good. but i do understand why steeler fan hangs with bated breath on the team because the rest of your teams stink and will always stinkso enjoy your 1 trick pony.

You know this guy has lost this debate when he has to wrap it up by saying the Penguins and Pirates suck, so enjoy your good football team.

there is no arguement to be lost hes not going to be a hofer he is not a probowl type qb unless a handfull of qbs get hurt. and if the def does not get back to where they were fat head will not see another superbowl unless he is holding a clipboard or buys a ticket. we should not call him big ben anymore he should be called fathead