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Big Ten Basketball 2022/2023 - Return to Power (4 Viewers)

I love how the idiot explains how Michigan has only 4 top 100 victories.  What he failes to explain, those were also 4 Top 25 victories.   Moron. 

 
Wisconsin exceeding my expectations here.  I expected a first round win, but not a second round one.  Notre Dame is not an impossible task, but a real solid test.  Bucky will likely lose, but that is not a foregone conclusion.

These games are invaluable in recruiting and in gaining experience for what is pretty much a young team.  With Kaminsky, Decker, and Jackson, Gasser and Duken all gone I expected a very down year.  If these youngsters all stay together another year I will have fairly high expectations next year.

Say what you will about the great recruiting schools, me, I enjoy watching good but not great recruits stay together a few years.  I like getting to know them a bit, and watching them develop solid team ball.

Nigel, how about finding your shot before the next matchup. 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Wisconsin exceeding my expectations here.  I expected a first round win, but not a second round one.  Notre Dame is not an impossible task, but a real solid test.  Bucky will likely lose, but that is not a foregone conclusion.

These games are invaluable in recruiting and in gaining experience for what is pretty much a young team.  With Kaminsky, Decker, and Jackson, Gasser and Duken all gone I expected a very down year.  If these youngsters all stay together another year I will have fairly high expectations next year.

Say what you will about the great recruiting schools, me, I enjoy watching good but not great recruits stay together a few years.  I like getting to know them a bit, and watching them develop solid team ball.

Nigel, how about finding your shot before the next matchup. 
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I think Jordan Smith is the only player they'll lose. There's something to be said for passing on the Diamond Stones, even in your own backyard, and focusing on the 4 year guys - or in the case of Happ, Showalter and a few others, 5 year guys.

I think Nigel needs more than just finding his shot, he needs to wake up. After the game, I heard Gard say the final play was designed first for Nigel, second for Koenig. The fact is that Nigel was not remotely looking for the ball on that play, seemed disinterested, and there is no way Happ was going to him anyway.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I think Jordan Smith is the only player they'll lose. There's something to be said for passing on the Diamond Stones, even in your own backyard, and focusing on the 4 year guys - or in the case of Happ, Showalter and a few others, 5 year guys.

I think Nigel needs more than just finding his shot, he needs to wake up. After the game, I heard Gard say the final play was designed first for Nigel, second for Koenig. The fact is that Nigel was not remotely looking for the ball on that play, seemed disinterested, and there is no way Happ was going to him anyway.
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Did Wisconsin really pass on Diamond Stone?  I don't remember it that way, but maybe I'm wrong.

 
whoknew said:
Did Wisconsin really pass on Diamond Stone?  I don't remember it that way, but maybe I'm wrong.
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Quoting every Wisconsin fan after he declared, "We didn't want him anyway." Of course its revisionist history, but it is true to say Wisconsin basketball generally does not recruit one-and-done guys.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Quoting every Wisconsin fan after he declared, "We didn't want him anyway." Of course its revisionist history, but it is true to say Wisconsin basketball generally does not recruit one-and-done guys.
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Pretty much everyone wanted him and when he chose Maryland most fans just said #### him let him go...didn't mean we didn't want him to come here.  Ellenson was a bigger miss.  Badgers could really use another outside shooter, especially with Ellenson's size.

 
Well clearly the Big 10 does not have the bragging rights this thread's title suggests after Mich. St. and Iowa messed their drawers on national T.V.  That said, Bucky, Indiana, and Maryland have stayed off the derision of the rest of the country for a few days.  I don't see any of the three as favorites in their next matchup, but would not be shocked by any of the three managing to pull off a win and make it to the elite eight.

Come on boys, get up for these games and keep a bit of conference pride alive.  The ACC is laughing right now.

 
KingPrawn said:
List of all the schools to make 5 of the last 6 Sweet 16s:

WISCONSIN

We've come a long way since the days of Steve Yoder
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I go back to the Bill Cofield era with Wes Matthews Sr. and Claude Gregory.  The Badgers were overmatched against everyone except Northwestern back then.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Well clearly the Big 10 does not have the bragging rights this thread's title suggests after Mich. St. and Iowa messed their drawers on national T.V.  That said, Bucky, Indiana, and Maryland have stayed off the derision of the rest of the country for a few days.  I don't see any of the three as favorites in their next matchup, but would not be shocked by any of the three managing to pull off a win and make it to the elite eight.

Come on boys, get up for these games and keep a bit of conference pride alive.  The ACC is laughing right now.
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No question.  I'm still scratching my head over how it actually happened, but MSU and Purdue had some dramatic flameouts/failures in the tourney.

I'm sure I am glossing over this and missing something substantial, but what have been the really impressive ACC wins in the tourney to date?  Not trying to be critical, just think I missed a few here and there.  Specifically, in comparison to Wisconsin beating Xavier and Indiana beating Kentucky.

 
Garrett said:
No question.  I'm still scratching my head over how it actually happened, but MSU and Purdue had some dramatic flameouts/failures in the tourney.

I'm sure I am glossing over this and missing something substantial, but what have been the really impressive ACC wins in the tourney to date?  Not trying to be critical, just think I missed a few here and there.  Specifically, in comparison to Wisconsin beating Xavier and Indiana beating Kentucky.
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MSU beating Kansas

 
Garrett said:
No question.  I'm still scratching my head over how it actually happened, but MSU and Purdue had some dramatic flameouts/failures in the tourney.

I'm sure I am glossing over this and missing something substantial, but what have been the really impressive ACC wins in the tourney to date?  Not trying to be critical, just think I missed a few here and there.  Specifically, in comparison to Wisconsin beating Xavier and Indiana beating Kentucky.
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Highest seed an ACC team has beaten has been Syracuse over Dayton (7), although Wichita State should have been much higher than an 11-seed (but then Miami may not have even played them, unless they had been the 6 in the same bracket).

Duke missed playing Baylor, Syracuse avoided Michigan State, and Notre Dame missed West Virginia.  Not their fault, but they've avoided all of the strongest teams in their paths to this point.

 
Well, that was disappointing.

Frankly, the whole season was pretty disappointing for the Terps.  The offense was stagnant for much of the season, the defensive rebounding issues never did get fixed, and they certainly did not live up to preseason expectations.  Now we play the waiting game on Trimble, Stone, and Carter...

As for tonight, go B1G!  Kick some ACC ###!

 
Rich Conway said:
  Now we play the waiting game on Trimble, Stone, and Carter...
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Stone's gone unless some catastrophe strikes between now and the post-combine "I changed my mind" period. I don't follow the NBA much, but it seems to me that his game doesn't really fit anymore with how bigs are used these days. Still, he's 7' and has skills.

Carter & Melo are interesting. Assuming both are still going to class to remain eligible (unlike Chris Wilcox, who only set foot on campus for practice and games in 2002), the combine should tell them what to do. I have no idea what next year's draft looks like in comparison to this one but, if you can get guaranteed money, then I generally think you should go. I can't imagine either could play their way into the lottery by coming back. But I do think they could play their way into the 1st round if they're not there this year. 

Both coming back would be huge but, if only one did, I'd rather it be Carter. The Terps will be flush with Guards, even if none are as good as Trimble. But a front court led by Dodd and Cek leaves a bit to be desired.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Stone's gone unless some catastrophe strikes between now and the post-combine "I changed my mind" period. I don't follow the NBA much, but it seems to me that his game doesn't really fit anymore with how bigs are used these days. Still, he's 7' and has skills.

Carter & Melo are interesting. Assuming both are still going to class to remain eligible (unlike Chris Wilcox, who only set foot on campus for practice and games in 2002), the combine should tell them what to do. I have no idea what next year's draft looks like in comparison to this one but, if you can get guaranteed money, then I generally think you should go. I can't imagine either could play their way into the lottery by coming back. But I do think they could play their way into the 1st round if they're not there this year. 

Both coming back would be huge but, if only one did, I'd rather it be Carter. The Terps will be flush with Guards, even if none are as good as Trimble. But a front court led by Dodd and Cek leaves a bit to be desired.
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I kind of agree with everything here.  My guess is that Stone and Trimble go, and Carter comes back.  If that happens, then the current roster looks like this for next year:

Frontcourt:   Dodd, Carter, Cekovsky, Bender, Thomas

Backcourt:    Cowan, Nickens, Wiley, Huerter, Brantley

 
Rich Conway said:
I kind of agree with everything here.  My guess is that Stone and Trimble go, and Carter comes back.  If that happens, then the current roster looks like this for next year:

Frontcourt:   Dodd, Carter, Cekovsky, Bender, Thomas

Backcourt:    Cowan, Nickens, Wiley, Huerter, Brantley
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That's not awful and is a roster that probably could make the NCAAT. If Cek comes along, it could be better. Dodd is what he is. I don't know much about the newcomers and I've probably imagined Wiley into a better player than he really is, but that's not a bad team.

Are you missing one of the newcomers in the backcourt? Seems to me there was another PG signing.

 
Don't think I missed any for next year.  There may be a grad transfer that comes in, of course.  I figure the rotation would look like:

C: Dodd, Cekovsky
PF: Carter, Bender
SF: Nickens, Thomas
SG: Wiley, Huerter
PG: Cowan, Brantley

Nickens, Wiley, and Huerter could all float between SG and SF, and Thomas could play PF.  They could go small by playing Carter as the only big, plus four of the six wings/guards.  A lot will depend on Cowan.  If he's a bust, the team is probably a bust.  If he's solid, this is a borderline top-25 team.

 
What a disappointing finish for Wisconsin, even allowing a sweet 16 appearance was unexpected. I just looked up the Summit conference final standings and see that Western Illinois finished dead last with only 3 conference wins. There were also early losses to UW-Milwaukee and Marquette, neither of whom played in the postseason. But the fact remains that Bucky really coulda shoulda woulda be in the final 8, and that sucks. I'll forget all about it in a couple days, but right now am really looking forward to next year, with everyone coming back, new coach putting his spin on Bo's system, great mix of youth and senior players. F### 'em Bucky. 

 
Rich Conway said:
Don't think I missed any for next year.  There may be a grad transfer that comes in, of course.  I figure the rotation would look like:

C: Dodd, Cekovsky
PF: Carter, Bender
SF: Nickens, Thomas
SG: Wiley, Huerter
PG: Cowan, Brantley

Nickens, Wiley, and Huerter could all float between SG and SF, and Thomas could play PF.  They could go small by playing Carter as the only big, plus four of the six wings/guards.  A lot will depend on Cowan.  If he's a bust, the team is probably a bust.  If he's solid, this is a borderline top-25 team.
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Nope, you're right....I can't count. There are two transfers MD is working on, but neither have signed yet as far as I know (one out of Delaware and the other out of a small, religious school I can't recall right now).

I agree on Cowan being a key (along with Carter returning), but I think Brantley may be better than he showed this year.

If Melo also returns, they're Top 15-20

 
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Robert Carter is going pro.  No news on Stone or Trimble yet.  Assuming both leave, Terps roster now looks like:

C: Dodd, Cekovsky
PF: Bender
SF: Nickens, Thomas
SG: Wiley, Huerter
PG: Cowan, Brantley

Turgeon will probably add a grad transfer.  Hope it's a post player, as the frontcourt looks incredibly thin at this point.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
What a disappointing finish for Wisconsin, even allowing a sweet 16 appearance was unexpected. I just looked up the Summit conference final standings and see that Western Illinois finished dead last with only 3 conference wins. There were also early losses to UW-Milwaukee and Marquette, neither of whom played in the postseason. But the fact remains that Bucky really coulda shoulda woulda be in the final 8, and that sucks. I'll forget all about it in a couple days, but right now am really looking forward to next year, with everyone coming back, new coach putting his spin on Bo's system, great mix of youth and senior players. F### 'em Bucky. 
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Yeah it hurt initially but I kept telling myself "House money" and all that. That being said, I can't see any way Nigel doesn't come back. Another year of development for Happ, Iverson, Illikainen, et al, getting back Pritzl and van Vleit, and Gard with a full offseason with them bodes well. I've seen top 10 in the way too early polls for next year which is way too high until they can prove they won't lose to directional Illinois and UW-Parkside.

Rich Conway said:
Robert Carter is going pro.  No news on Stone or Trimble yet.  Assuming both leave, Terps roster now looks like:

C: Dodd, Cekovsky
PF: Bender
SF: Nickens, Thomas
SG: Wiley, Huerter
PG: Cowan, Brantley

Turgeon will probably add a grad transfer.  Hope it's a post player, as the frontcourt looks incredibly thin at this point.
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I thought I had heard Stone declared?

 
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strykerpks said:
I thought I had heard Stone declared?
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I believe he has, but he has not engaged the services of an agent.  With the new rule change, players can change their minds after the NBA combines, as long as they don't hire an agent.  So, in Stone's case (and probably Trimble and a whole slew of others), they declare, go to the NBA workouts, talk to scouts, etc., and get a feel for where they might get drafted, then they stay in the draft or return to school.  Unless they hire an agent, in which case they can't go back.

I imagine your next question is then...  Why would Carter hire an agent, thus precluding the chance to change his mind?  I assume it's because an agent will front him money to do things like travel to the NBA workouts, travel to Europe to work out for teams there, etc., and he's likely been told that another year probably won't help his draft stock, especially given his age (22).

 
Rich Conway said:
I believe he has, but he has not engaged the services of an agent.  With the new rule change, players can change their minds after the NBA combines, as long as they don't hire an agent.  So, in Stone's case (and probably Trimble and a whole slew of others), they declare, go to the NBA workouts, talk to scouts, etc., and get a feel for where they might get drafted, then they stay in the draft or return to school.  Unless they hire an agent, in which case they can't go back.

I imagine your next question is then...  Why would Carter hire an agent, thus precluding the chance to change his mind?  I assume it's because an agent will front him money to do things like travel to the NBA workouts, travel to Europe to work out for teams there, etc., and he's likely been told that another year probably won't help his draft stock, especially given his age (22).
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Yeah, I wasn't thinking about your last comment when I responded to your PM. He'll probably never play his way into the first round at this point (though he might not admit this to himself). So, why not just go for it now? 

Shame for MD fans, but I don't blame him.

 
Sounds like No. 1 HS player Josh Jackson will announce next Monday or Wednesday in Detroit. Hoping he chooses MSU over KU.  He already has two of his best friends signed up in Green and White.

Getting him would be the cherry on top of an already stellar incoming class for State.

 
strykerpks said:
Yeah it hurt initially but I kept telling myself "House money" and all that. That being said, I can't see any way Nigel doesn't come back. Another year of development for Happ, Iverson, Illikainen, et al, getting back Pritzl and van Vleit, and Gard with a full offseason with them bodes well. I've seen top 10 in the way too early polls for next year which is way too high until they can prove they won't lose to directional Illinois and UW-Parkside.

I thought I had heard Stone declared?
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I don't think that's way too high at all.  Assuming Nigel comes back they'll have their entire team back (Sorry Jordan Smith) plus they'll add Van Vliet (who adds some much needed size and can shoot) and Pritzl (who will likely be their best 3 point shooter, maybe 2nd best after Koenig).  With even some modest improvement from some of their young players this is going to be an excellent team next year.

 
strykerpks said:
Yeah it hurt initially but I kept telling myself "House money" and all that. That being said, I can't see any way Nigel doesn't come back. Another year of development for Happ, Iverson, Illikainen, et al, getting back Pritzl and van Vleit, and Gard with a full offseason with them bodes well. I've seen top 10 in the way too early polls for next year which is way too high until they can prove they won't lose to directional Illinois and UW-Parkside.
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I guess Hayes submitted his name for the NBA draft advisory committee, which is probably a good idea. I was talking to some friends at a bar a couple days ago, and we couldn't recall any success stories of Badgers who declared early, other than Devin Harris. The jury is still out on Dekker. The conversation did give me a chance to bust out my Rashard Griffith on Langdon Street stories.

 
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