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Big Ten Basketball 2022/2023 - Return to Power (2 Viewers)

trader jake said:
Arizona took Michigan to the woodshed in the tourney championship game last night in Vegas.  The Wolverines have a lot of talent, but they were just outworked, out coached, and outclassed by the Cats.  Maybe it was just Arizona's suffocating defense, but does Michigan have enough outside shooting to justify that #4 ranking?
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I wrote this above but they are very young. So its at least possible they will improve. Caleb Houstan is a freshman who is supposed to be a lottery pick. But he's been terrible so far. Will he improve? I hope so. 

DeVante Jones is a transfer PG who has to stop fouling and fit in better. 

So will they get better? I think so. But there's no guarantee it will be enough to hit those preseason expectations.

 
Good guys in Green win a real battle in the Bahamas against a very tough Loyola Chicago squad on a Marcus Bingham Jr. two point alley-oop dunk with 3 secs on the clock. What a great game

#GOGREEN

 
Purdue took care of Omaha today. Gonzaga plays Duke tonight.  If Duke beats Gonzaga…..

 
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Nice showing so far in the Big Ten / ACC challenge*

Purdue is so good. They've got some holes that can be exposed, but they have everything and they are deep!

*except the hoosiers

 
Big 10 leads the Challenge 6-2 so far, with the two ACC wins coming in OT and double OT.

Six games today.

This Challenge started with the ACC winning each of the first 10 years it was held (1999-2009).  Since then, the Big 10 has won 7, ACC won 2, with 3 years ending in ties. The ACC currently leads the all-time series 12-7-3.

Maryland kind of screws up the all-time record, as it was 10-5 when playing for the ACC, then switched conferences and is only 1-6 while playing for the Big 10.  ####in interlopers.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Big 10 leads the Challenge 6-2 so far, with the two ACC wins coming in OT and double OT.

Six games today.

This Challenge started with the ACC winning each of the first 10 years it was held (1999-2009).  Since then, the Big 10 has won 7, ACC won 2, with 3 years ending in ties. The ACC currently leads the all-time series 12-7-3.

Maryland kind of screws up the all-time record, as it was 10-5 when playing for the ACC, then switched conferences and is only 1-6 while playing for the Big 10.  ####in interlopers.
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😡

 
Watched Illinois beat Notre Dame Monday night.  Cockburn is just too much for most college bigs and ND has a handful of decent stretch 5's but that was a painful mismatch everytime.  Illinois does a nice job getting the ball to him down low.  He'll push his defender under the hoop as a teammate cuts to the free throw line.  A guard will get the ball to that cutter at the nail, then they'll get the ball to Cockburn down low while shooters stay in the corners.  Nice action, tough to front/double at times.  If the wings hold up that team could do some damage.

 
urbanhack said:
*except the hoosiers
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Usually when a team turns the ball over 25 times it is pretty safe to assume they got destroyed.  I'm not sure if I should be encouraged they fought back into double OT or worried they will turn it over 30 times against Nebraska next.

For anyone who has not watched Jackson-Davis play yet this year, he is going to be a problem for pretty much any opponent now.

 
Michigan blown out at UNC tonight. 

Spartans scrap together a solid win at home vs. Louisville 

 
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BroncoFreak_2K3 said:
Michigan blown out at UNC tonight. 

Spartans scrap together a solid win at home vs. Louisville 
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I've seen 3 of their games now and Michigan is flat out just not very good at the moment.  Talent alone does not equal wins.  The team looks lost on offense and on defense more often than not and Dickinson actually appears to have regressed from last season to this one.  Diabate finally looked good though and like others have mentioned, they are young, so there is time to grow I guess.  With the way they're playing right now, I see a .500 or so record in the B10.  Very disappointing start with all of the recruiting momentum Michigan had coming into this season.  The coaching staff and players have to step things up in a big way moving forward.

 
PlayaHata said:
I've seen 3 of their games now and Michigan is flat out just not very good at the moment.  Talent alone does not equal wins.  The team looks lost on offense and on defense more often than not and Dickinson actually appears to have regressed from last season to this one.  Diabate finally looked good though and like others have mentioned, they are young, so there is time to grow I guess.  With the way they're playing right now, I see a .500 or so record in the B10.  Very disappointing start with all of the recruiting momentum Michigan had coming into this season.  The coaching staff and players have to step things up in a big way moving forward.
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Agreed - teams are doubling Hunter as soon as he touches the ball, and Michigan doesn't have the shooters to punish them for it. Their best counter right now is swinging the ball to the other side of the paint to Diabate, but they're going to need better outside shooting to live up to the preseason hype.

 
Big Ten has now won three straight Challenges - this one 8-6.  There was an OT game, a double OT and last nights quadruple OT circus; a couple one point wins and really only two blow outs.  Still a great tradition imo.

 
Was at the game in North Carolina to watch Michigan. 

Eek. They have A LOT of work to do. And quickly - play San Diego State on Saturday. Lets hope Juwan and the staff can get things figured out.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Wasn't expecting that now. I know another player transferred out yesterday, and I wonder if Turgeon had rubbed too many people the wrong way (while not winning enough for the fanbase).

@Rich Conway, Merry Christmas!
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And just when I thought all my holiday shopping was finished!

It does surprise me that this happened in the middle of the season, but I think it was a foregone conclusion that this was the last year.  The team is a wreck this year, the fanbase is well past restless, and his teams are just... boring.

I suppose the idea is that now the AD can reach out to potential hires earlier than if they waited?

 
Rich Conway said:
And just when I thought all my holiday shopping was finished!

It does surprise me that this happened in the middle of the season, but I think it was a foregone conclusion that this was the last year.  The team is a wreck this year, the fanbase is well past restless, and his teams are just... boring.

I suppose the idea is that now the AD can reach out to potential hires earlier than if they waited?
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Kevin Plank should offer Coach K $100 million to leave Duke right now and coach the Terps for the rest of the year, just to watch several fanbases and media outlets have their collective heads explode.

I haven't yet given much thought to who I'd like as the next coach. 

 
Purdue going for the #1 ranking tonight. Maybe it's the pessimist in me because of well Purdue...but can't believe they are favored by a dozen @ Iowa.  

 
Seen a few suggestions that the Terps may consider Sarunas Jasikevicius. Alum, NBA player, coaching legend in Europe, could probably bring European players over the way Mark Few does, only 45.  If you can't pry away Oats, Enfield, or another rising star, might be an interesting choice.  Not sure they could get him to come, though.

 
Rich Conway said:
Seen a few suggestions that the Terps may consider Sarunas Jasikevicius. Alum, NBA player, coaching legend in Europe, could probably bring European players over the way Mark Few does, only 45.  If you can't pry away Oats, Enfield, or another rising star, might be an interesting choice.  Not sure they could get him to come, though.
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That's interesting. I never even considered Sarunas. God, he's 45? 

I've been to a lot of Maryland games, both at Cole and at Comcast (or whatever they call it). Been to Carolina games. Duke games. The loudest (& hottest) I've ever heard/felt a gym was at Cole when Jasikevicius was there and they were playing Clemson. It was dead-middle of winter and snowing. As you know, Cole had no AC. They had all of the doors and windows open, and it didn't matter - it was so freaking hot in there. Anyway, it was a hell of a game. The students were going nuts. Sarunas had like 27 points and made the game-winner with a couple of seconds left. I was concerned for the structural integrity of the place.

I would love Oats, but I'm not sure they could get him. He's in the perfect spot, IMO - a football school that has all the money in the world. I love his style of play, though, and it would certainly play well with both the fanbase and recruits in the DMV.

I saw the VCU coach and Kim English's names being tossed around, too. But I have a feeling Maryland is looking for a splash hire.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
That's interesting. I never even considered Sarunas. God, he's 45? 

I've been to a lot of Maryland games, both at Cole and at Comcast (or whatever they call it). Been to Carolina games. Duke games. The loudest (& hottest) I've ever heard/felt a gym was at Cole when Jasikevicius was there and they were playing Clemson. It was dead-middle of winter and snowing. As you know, Cole had no AC. They had all of the doors and windows open, and it didn't matter - it was so freaking hot in there. Anyway, it was a hell of a game. The students were going nuts. Sarunas had like 27 points and made the game-winner with a couple of seconds left. I was concerned for the structural integrity of the place.

I would love Oats, but I'm not sure they could get him. He's in the perfect spot, IMO - a football school that has all the money in the world. I love his style of play, though, and it would certainly play well with both the fanbase and recruits in the DMV.

I saw the VCU coach and Kim English's names being tossed around, too. But I have a feeling Maryland is looking for a splash hire.
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Just please hire someone who has some semblance of an organized offense.

Oh, and recruit from the Maryland/DC/NVoa area.

The rest will take care of itself. 

 
James Daulton said:
Just please hire someone who has some semblance of an organized offense.

Oh, and recruit from the Maryland/DC/NVoa area.

The rest will take care of itself. 
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Agreed, though recruiting wasn't the issue with Turgeon to me. He was able to get good players. But he didn't seem to know what to do with them. I mean, the guy obviously knows basketball - he's won everywhere he's been. But he just seemed kind of lost on how to tailor an offense based on the talent in a given year.

Gary Williams had the same problem his first 10 years at Maryland. He'd keep running that stupid "double flex" (or whatever he called it) offense, regardless of personnel. He ruined the Joe Smith teams by stubbornly sticking to it. Also, the team that had Stevie Francis and LaRon Proffitt. He FINALLY figured it out with the Dixon/Baxter/Blake teams.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Agreed, though recruiting wasn't the issue with Turgeon to me. He was able to get good players. But he didn't seem to know what to do with them. I mean, the guy obviously knows basketball - he's won everywhere he's been. But he just seemed kind of lost on how to tailor an offense based on the talent in a given year.

Gary Williams had the same problem his first 10 years at Maryland. He'd keep running that stupid "double flex" (or whatever he called it) offense, regardless of personnel. He ruined the Joe Smith teams by stubbornly sticking to it. Also, the team that had Stevie Francis and LaRon Proffitt. He FINALLY figured it out with the Dixon/Baxter/Blake teams.
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Recruiting seemed to fallen off in the last couple years.  He's been getting guys in the transfer portal, but there haven't been as many high-profile high schoolers.  Also, the number of players that seemed to have issues with him was concerning.  The Mitchell twins were probably crazy, but they weren't the only ones.  James Graham III is already transferring this year.

On offense, I've read elsewhere that he desperately wanted to use Pop's motion offense that the Spurs used so successfully for years, but the problem is that it's incredibly complex and takes years to properly learn.  Of course, you don't have years in college, with major personnel changes every year.  No idea if this is accurate or not.

It is clear that Turgeon had a particular offense and particular defense that he wanted, and personnel didn't matter.  Unless you can consistently recruit the same type of players year after year, which he didn't, that seems backwards to me.  I never understood why some of his deeper, more athletic teams didn't press.  I never understood that stupid three-man weave for the sake of weave (well outside of the three point line where the defense ignores it anyway) his offenses repeatedly employed, which naturally led to short shot clocks once they stopped and subsequent off-balance three pointers as the shot clock expired (unaffectionately known as the weave-and-heave offense).

 
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boilerdave said:
How ‘bout those #1 ranked Boilermakers?
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Heard the announcer say it’s the first time in their history they’re ranked #1? That’s incredible to me. Some good teams over the years. This is a fun team to watch. Deep talent. Didn’t think they played great vs. Iowa but were really clicking vs. FSU. Fun to watch when Edey and Williams dominate down low, but also have shooters and a guy like Ivey who does it all. Good stuff.

 
Rich Conway said:
Recruiting seemed to fallen off in the last couple years.  He's been getting guys in the transfer portal, but there haven't been as many high-profile high schoolers.  Also, the number of players that seemed to have issues with him was concerning.  The Harrison twins were probably crazy, but they weren't the only ones.  James Graham III is already transferring this year.

On offense, I've read elsewhere that he desperately wanted to use Pop's motion offense that the Spurs used so successfully for years, but the problem is that it's incredibly complex and takes years to properly learn.  Of course, you don't have years in college, with major personnel changes every year.  No idea if this is accurate or not.

It is clear that Turgeon had a particular offense and particular defense that he wanted, and personnel didn't matter.  Unless you can consistently recruit the same type of players year after year, which he didn't, that seems backwards to me.  I never understood why some of his deeper, more athletic teams didn't press.  I never understood that stupid three-man weave for the sake of weave (well outside of the three point line where the defense ignores it anyway) his offenses repeatedly employed, which naturally led to short shot clocks once they stopped and subsequent off-balance three pointers as the shot clock expired (unaffectionately known as the weave-and-heave offense).
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The bolded times a bazillion. 

 
ericttspikes said:
Heard the announcer say it’s the first time in their history they’re ranked #1? That’s incredible to me. Some good teams over the years. This is a fun team to watch. Deep talent. Didn’t think they played great vs. Iowa but were really clicking vs. FSU. Fun to watch when Edey and Williams dominate down low, but also have shooters and a guy like Ivey who does it all. Good stuff.
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Yep. That makes Maryland probably the most high-profile program to never be an in-season #1. They've been #2 a bunch.

 
ericttspikes said:
Heard the announcer say it’s the first time in their history they’re ranked #1? That’s incredible to me. Some good teams over the years. This is a fun team to watch. Deep talent. Didn’t think they played great vs. Iowa but were really clicking vs. FSU. Fun to watch when Edey and Williams dominate down low, but also have shooters and a guy like Ivey who does it all. Good stuff.
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I was a freshman during the 87 season when Lewis, Mitchell and Stevens led them to a pre-season #1 ranking…but never were ranked #1 during the actual season. That was also the year they got knocked out by a Mitch Richmond bank shot in Detroit as a #1 seed.

This year they are so dynamic and hard to stop. I’m glad it was close, they need to be able to break the press and not turn it over. The only two weaknesses this team has is possible shaky PG play and opposing mobile big men who can shoot.

 
whoknew said:
Was at the game in North Carolina to watch Michigan. 

Eek. They have A LOT of work to do. And quickly - play San Diego State on Saturday. Lets hope Juwan and the staff can get things figured out.
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Michigan looking a ton better since then.  As has been said, they're young and still figuring it out.  Struggle now, get better in Jan/Feb, and hopefully peak in March/April.

 
Pipes said:
Johnny Davis is one hell of a player.  
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He’s not getting any calls yet, but that will come if he keeps playing like this. Great comeback win tonight. I still see them middle of the pack in the conference but it’s going to be fun watching these kids grow over the season. They could make some noise at the end. 

 
I got distracted and missed most of the first half of IU-Wisky.  Turned it on with IU up 42-20 late in 1H and thought "cool".  The collapse started immediately after I tuned in.

So @The General& @Garrett- my fault.

 
heckmanm said:
I got distracted and missed most of the first half of IU-Wisky.  Turned it on with IU up 42-20 late in 1H and thought "cool".  The collapse started immediately after I tuned in.

So @The General& @Garrett- my fault.
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Same here. Even worse, was out and missed whole first half, had DVR’d it, buddy tells me the score so I skipped straight into about a minute into the second. Watched the whole thing unravel. Pathetic. 

I won’t be watching them play for awhile :lol:

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Agreed, though recruiting wasn't the issue with Turgeon to me. He was able to get good players. But he didn't seem to know what to do with them. I mean, the guy obviously knows basketball - he's won everywhere he's been. But he just seemed kind of lost on how to tailor an offense based on the talent in a given year.

Gary Williams had the same problem his first 10 years at Maryland. He'd keep running that stupid "double flex" (or whatever he called it) offense, regardless of personnel. He ruined the Joe Smith teams by stubbornly sticking to it. Also, the team that had Stevie Francis and LaRon Proffitt. He FINALLY figured it out with the Dixon/Baxter/Blake teams.
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yeah, but what about Exree Hipp?

 
heckmanm said:
I got distracted and missed most of the first half of IU-Wisky.  Turned it on with IU up 42-20 late in 1H and thought "cool".  The collapse started immediately after I tuned in.

So @The General& @Garrett- my fault.
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Xavier Johnson has a lot of talent, but when he goes off the rails...

We all know, in this conference you need a guard that is physically and mentally tough.  Indiana has some freshman that are just not physically there yet, and their older guards are not always mentally there.  All those angles could change as the season moves ahead, but that is where it's at right now.

 
So glad this conference is back in full swing with fully engaged fans.  I hope we all make each other better, because I really want to see a BIG10 team take it all home the first week in April.

 
Garrett said:
Xavier Johnson has a lot of talent, but when he goes off the rails...

We all know, in this conference you need a guard that is physically and mentally tough.  Indiana has some freshman that are just not physically there yet, and their older guards are not always mentally there.  All those angles could change as the season moves ahead, but that is where it's at right now.
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Yeah. The thing was he at least was willing to take shots, the rest of the team looked scared at the end. Was hard to watch.

They also ran the same high pick and roll type thing over and over again for the last 2 minutes, was predictable and the big stiffs that Wisky have had caught on.

They have some good talent and Woodson was able to keep players there so hopefully that bodes well.

 
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