Bill Maher Vs Rashida Tlaib (2 Viewers)

[timschochet]

Yeah, let's just concentrate on how evil the Jews are.  Sorry, it is bs.  Muslims have lots of homes and none of their homes are friendly to outsiders.  Sick of the double standards the left wants to impose on the Jews. 

It’s not so much a double standard as it is a higher standard. It’s the same reason we paid more attention, during the Vietnam War, to our actions in My Lai than to what the North Vietnamese did in Hue. Because we expect “our side” to do better. We are the west. We gave the world the enlightenment. We ought to know better, to act better, to behave like civilized people. 

I know that some will find this to be a bigoted argument: I expect the Jews (and Christians)  should behave better than Muslims. Sorry but I do. When they behave badly I am more appalled and ashamed- not just as a Jew but as a westerner. We’re supposed to be the good guys. 

 

[jon_mx]

I guess those friendly Egyptians who gave me a ride from the Israeli border through the Sinai Peninsula with a stop for an elaborate feast along the way were just setting me up for some elaborate death trap.  Lucky for me the hash they shared with me clouded their brains enough to foil their plans!

Lots of nice Jews too.   Doesn't justify how crappy their governments are.   Jews deserve one place to live. 

 

[sho nuff]

Lots of nice Jews too.   Doesn't justify how crappy their governments are.   Jews deserve one place to live. 

Deserving a place to live and treating others like crap aren't the same thing.  I don't think anyone here is disputing Jews deserve a place to live.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Reading these last few pages I realize how little I know about the Israel/Jew situation.  Honestly I feel like I’m reading Greek.  

Here's a decent primer I read last year with many great links (including primary docs from the 50's).

How The GOP Became A ‘Pro-Israel’ Party

 

[dkp993]

Here's a decent primer I read last year with many great links (including primary docs from the 50's).

How The GOP Became A ‘Pro-Israel’ Party

Awesome. Thanks! Will read this when I have some time.  

 

[The Commish]

Reading these last few pages I realize how little I know about the Israel/Jew situation.  Honestly I feel like I’m reading Greek.  

To be fair....there's a good bit of political spin going on in this thread muddling things up a bit.  Historically, neither side has really taken the time to have the empathy or forethought to look at this from the others' perspective.  

 

[The Commish]

And I love how "I am holding both sides to the same standard" is somehow a "double standard"  

 

[jon_mx]

And I love how "I am holding both sides to the same standard" is somehow a "double standard"  

The left imposes almost no standards on Arab countries that I can tell.   The left will complain about Israel all day but ignore the threat that Israel faces and the reasons why they do what that do.  Arab nation's really don't have an excuse on why they discriminate so openly and severely.  Totalitarian governments and religious theocracies are the norm.  

 

[sho nuff]

The left imposes almost no standards on Arab countries that I can tell.   The left will complain about Israel all day but ignore the threat that Israel faces and the reasons why they do what that do.  Arab nation's really don't have an excuse on why they discriminate so openly and severely.  Totalitarian governments and religious theocracies are the norm.  

Because of how much we subsidize them and they are our ally.  That is what you do with friends...you expect more out of them.

 

[The Commish]

The left imposes almost no standards on Arab countries that I can tell.   The left will complain about Israel all day but ignore the threat that Israel faces and the reasons why they do what that do.  Arab nation's really don't have an excuse on why they discriminate so openly and severely.  Totalitarian governments and religious theocracies are the norm.  

All I can tell you is to read what whoknew said instead of what you think/want him to have said  

Glad you're back to your old self with the broad generalizations and using your preconceived notions of what the general populace is doing to frame the conversations of the actual people in front of you on these forums while completely ignoring what THEY are actually saying to you.  Wouldn't be the same any other way.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with "The Palestinians and the Jews are behaving like children and I'd really like them to grow up and act like adults" which is what whoknew was portraying in his comment.  Ironically enough, I DO find a problem with the "  he started it" approach.  I don't tolerate that from my kids, why would I tolerate that from grown adults?

 

[ren hoek]

https://twitter.com/mbueckert/status/1163584137560805376?s=20

Here is Tlaib explaining her decision to withdraw from the 'humanitarian' trip to occupied Palestine.  

 

[rockaction]

The Israel Palestine debate has sunk to such a new low that it begets the charge of anti-Semitism if you discuss it as a conservative.

This is. Crazy ####. 

 

[jon_mx]

All I can tell you is to read what whoknew said instead of what you think/want him to have said  

Glad you're back to your old self with the broad generalizations and using your preconceived notions of what the general populace is doing to frame the conversations of the actual people in front of you on these forums while completely ignoring what THEY are actually saying to you.  Wouldn't be the same any other way.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with "The Palestinians and the Jews are behaving like children and I'd really like them to grow up and act like adults" which is what whoknew was portraying in his comment.  Ironically enough, I DO find a problem with the "  he started it" approach.  I don't tolerate that from my kids, why would I tolerate that from grown adults?

Glad you are back to being totally oblivious to the crap people on your side spews.  Pathetic really, but I have come to expect zero sense of balance from you.  I don't recall taking issue with that particular statement from whoknew, which I see no issue with.   What set off the ####storm was Tobias and his insanely absurd comment: 

"this whole shtick where conservatives feign interest in fighting anti-Semitism when it serves a narrow political purpose, and then turn around and ignore, amplify and even occasionally embrace white nationalism, is downright nauseating."

But you want to mischaracterize and bloviate about what I said while missing the whole point about the crap that comes from some of the leftists on this forum.  That just serves to enable the cesspool of the mob mentality that goes on in this beloved PSF.  

 

[Alex P Keaton]

The left imposes almost no standards on Arab countries that I can tell.   The left will complain about Israel all day but ignore the threat that Israel faces and the reasons why they do what that do.  Arab nation's really don't have an excuse on why they discriminate so openly and severely.  Totalitarian governments and religious theocracies are the norm.  

South Africa treated its citizens better than Libya back in the 80s.  So I guess that means we should have been cool with apartheid.

 

[The Commish]

Glad you are back to being totally oblivious to the crap people on your side spews.  Pathetic really, but I have come to expect zero sense of balance from you.  I don't recall taking issue with that particular statement from whoknew, which I see no issue with.   What set off the ####storm was Tobias and his insanely absurd comment: 

"this whole shtick where conservatives feign interest in fighting anti-Semitism when it serves a narrow political purpose, and then turn around and ignore, amplify and even occasionally embrace white nationalism, is downright nauseating."

But you want to mischaracterize and bloviate about what I said while missing the whole point about the crap that comes from some of the leftists on this forum.  That just serves to enable the cesspool of the mob mentality that goes on in this beloved PSF.  

If I had any faith in you actually understanding MY position, I might take offense to this, but I know you haven't a clue and are just lashing out.  You can't/won't even read the positions here and take them at face value and discuss them.  You insist on projecting your preconceived notions on others and expect them to defend what you think their argument is.  You've done this a million times.  For instance, its bizarre that you choose to take issue with Tobias by lashing out at whoknew.  There is absolutely no logical position that would justify that approach.  I hope you're saying this now because you went back and read what was said and realized the error of your ways.  If not it's back to "you should know what I'm saying isn't what I am typing for you to read" shtick.  I responded to exactly what you said and who you said it to based on their comments keeping it completely in the specific context of those comments.  If that's "mischaracterizing and bloviate" in your mind, that's on you.  

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

it's obviously a complicated question, but I'd point to three things, probably in this order:

1. The current generation of Jewish Americans were raised in the shadow of the Holocaust, and the "never again" message was drilled into our heads over and over. As a result we are extremely sympathetic to the concerns of other oppressed minorities even as we get distance from our own oppression.

2. For most of our lives the GOP (not all of them, but certainly many of them) has sought to encroach on the bright line separation between Church and state. This is obviously going to drive away Jews. People like Ted Cruz give lip service to "Judeo-Christian" ethics, but it's fairly transparent.

3.  Jews disproportinately belong to other demographics that lean left/vote Dem: urban or close-in suburban, Northeastern, college-educated, etc. This is the "correlation but not causation" aspect of the phenomenon.

I'm sure there's lots of other factors at work but those are the three that jump out to me.

As for Trump, Jews voted along with our standard voting patterns in 2016, and then went big for the Dems at the mid-term (79%) despite the fact that they disproportionately are benefitting from his economic policies.  I don't know how much of that was a rejection of Trumpism and how much was just correlation because the blue wave happened largely in the suburbs where Jews happen to reside, but I suspect it will happen again in 2020 and the Dem nominee will get somewhere around 75% of the Jewish vote after Hilary got 71%. I doubt the Netanyahu romance will move things very much- Jews generally are pro-Israel but resent being sterotyped as inextricably tied to the state, as Trump often does.

So I was flipping through MSNBC last night.  I can't remember which host, one of the males I believe.  He had on a gentleman whose bona fides I missed but who was clearly intending to speak for the Jewish American Community, a community he stated was as diverse as any and not of one mind except, perhaps, to your points #1 & 2, above.  His concurrence with your points and their order caught my attention a bit.  I was cooking at the time and so did not get his name, but I did find it interesting that he even listed them in the same order as did you.

 

[Summer Wheat]

https://twitter.com/mbueckert/status/1163584137560805376?s=20

Here is Tlaib explaining her decision to withdraw from the 'humanitarian' trip to occupied Palestine.  

This is when I hate politics.  Tlaib and Omar were elected to serve the people of their districts, their constituents.  Now everything is a personal issue.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Tlaib looks really smart here.