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Bill Maher wants to coach the Democrats (1 Viewer)

:thumbup:

It’s almost like you write the material. 
Hey good to see you again!  Wanna pick up where we left off yesterday? 

If you need a refresher, you were ignoring decades of Trump's grotesque misogyny and over a dozen accusations of sexual assault that clearly support the most likely explanation of his Access Hollywood confession in favor of narrowly construing the phrase "when you're a star they let you do it" as meaning the women somehow consented to be grabbed by the genitals in advance.

 
knowledge dropper said:
That’s not what he said. It was more like as a celebrity women throw themselves at him.  He can do anything.  He said that for years.  If you want to continually construe that as assault to suit your political agenda, go ahead.  Obviously, 62+ million Americans didn’t and still don’t.  
Hasnt their been like 10 women who said he has just kissed them out of nowhere on the lips?

 
Hey good to see you again!  Wanna pick up where we left off yesterday? 

If you need a refresher, you were ignoring decades of Trump's grotesque misogyny and over a dozen accusations of sexual assault that clearly support the most likely explanation of his Access Hollywood confession in favor of narrowly construing the phrase "when you're a star they let you do it" as meaning the women somehow consented to be grabbed by the genitals in advance.
And he still got elected.  

 
Hey good to see you again!  Wanna pick up where we left off yesterday? 

If you need a refresher, you were ignoring decades of Trump's grotesque misogyny and over a dozen accusations of sexual assault that clearly support the most likely explanation of his Access Hollywood confession in favor of narrowly construing the phrase "when you're a star they let you do it" as meaning the women somehow consented to be grabbed by the genitals in advance.
Accusations mean little.  Did these get vetted in a court of law?  Were they looking for payouts?  Who knows?  Obviously, you are okay with the decades of reported groping, cultural misappropriation, sodomy, rumored infidelity, and anti-Catholicism of candidates you listed as good alternatives. 

We each have to pick what levels of behavior we are willing to tolerate.  

 
Accusations mean little.  Did these get vetted in a court of law?  Were they looking for payouts?  Who knows?
Hmm, good point. Would you like to discuss Trump's decades of grotesque misogyny as well as each of the accusations of sexual misconduct or workplace harassment supporting the most likely explanation of his Access Hollywood confession is greater detail? I'd be happy to start a thread on the subject if I can count on your good faith participation!

 
Hmm, good point. Would you like to discuss Trump's decades of grotesque misogyny as well as each of the accusations of sexual misconduct or workplace harassment supporting the most likely explanation of his Access Hollywood confession is greater detail? I'd be happy to start a thread on the subject if I can count on your good faith participation!
Haven’t we reached our quota of anti-Trump threads.  I think there already was a thread on this subject.  

Obviously, it’s not my job to undermine or even promote our President, so I won’t be able to keep up with your volume of inflammatory posts. 

 
Haven’t we reached our quota of anti-Trump threads.  I think there already was a thread on this subject.  

Obviously, it’s not my job to undermine or even promote our President, so I won’t be able to keep up with your volume of inflammatory posts. 
The only reason my inflammatory posts would be so voluminous is because the man you support and empower has a well-documented lifelong passion for harassing, degrading and abusing women.

But like you said, "we each have to pick what levels of behavior we are willing to tolerate." Some of us are apparently willing to tolerate a well-documented lifelong passion for harassing, degrading and abusing women.  Some of us aren't. To each their own!  Unless you're a woman in Donald Trump's sphere, I guess.

 
The only reason my inflammatory posts would be so voluminous is because the man you support and empower has a well-documented lifelong passion for harassing, degrading and abusing women.

But like you said, "we each have to pick what levels of behavior we are willing to tolerate." Some of us are apparently willing to tolerate a well-documented lifelong passion for harassing, degrading and abusing women.  Some of us aren't. To each their own!  Unless you're a woman in Donald Trump's sphere, I guess.
Just for reference, who is your preferred candidate of the Democrats?

 
Just for reference, who is your preferred candidate of the Democrats?
Nah, not going for this obvious tactic whereby a Trump supporter shifts the conversation away from his awfulness without addressing it first. If you'd like to discuss my 2020 preferences I'm happy to do it elsewhere (I think I mentioned my current preference in the "2020 Good Place" thread just this morning), or at least after you've explained to us exactly how much harassment, degradation and abuse of women you're willing to tolerate from your man and why.

 
Let's say Mark Cuban decided to run for president and somehow won the Democratic nomination (disregard the fact that he doesn't want to run or would not run as a Dem).  We're watching him debate Trump and after Trump gives one of his whiny, deflective answers, Cuban says, "Look at this guy!  This is your President.  A whiny little thin-skinned man who has to deflect away from his own personal responsibilities and actions because he's so insecure and unable to accept responsibility.  This is what you think is strength?  He's nothing but a big whiny crybaby."  

Do some of you think it's so appalling that Cuban would say something like that?  I, for one, would be like, '####### A.  It's about time someone had the balls to call this dude out for what he is.' 

 
Nah, not going for this obvious tactic whereby a Trump supporter shifts the conversation away from his awfulness without addressing it first. If you'd like to discuss my 2020 preferences I'm happy to do it elsewhere (I think I mentioned my current preference in the "2020 Good Place" thread just this morning), or at least after you've explained to us exactly how much harassment, degradation and abuse of women you're willing to tolerate from your man and why.
:mellow:

 
ren hoek said:
Yes.... but he really is an extreme racist toward Islam, and mainstreams dehumanization of Muslims for millions of people in a really gross way. 
I have to agree with Maher that religion is a neurological disorder.

 
ren hoek said:
Yes.... but he really is an extreme racist toward Islam, and mainstreams dehumanization of Muslims for millions of people in a really gross way. 
I have to agree with Maher that religion is a neurological disorder.
The link doesn't work. But every time I've seen someone accuse Maher of Islamaphobia (and not simply as a critic of the religion itself rather than its adherents), they've tended to fall into one of two categories. The Glenn Greenwald types who deliberately misrepresent the facts, or the Ben Affleck types who haven't really paid attention.

 
The link doesn't work. But every time I've seen someone accuse Maher of Islamaphobia (and not simply as a critic of the religion itself rather than its adherents), they've tended to fall into one of two categories. The Glenn Greenwald types who deliberately misrepresent the facts, or the Ben Affleck types who haven't really paid attention.
I have heard Maher be critical of all religions and he is agnostic.  This clip singles out his criticism of Islam and he is not making things up, just saying things some don`t want to hear.

 
Let's say Mark Cuban decided to run for president and somehow won the Democratic nomination (disregard the fact that he doesn't want to run or would not run as a Dem).  We're watching him debate Trump and after Trump gives one of his whiny, deflective answers, Cuban says, "Look at this guy!  This is your President.  A whiny little thin-skinned man who has to deflect away from his own personal responsibilities and actions because he's so insecure and unable to accept responsibility.  This is what you think is strength?  He's nothing but a big whiny crybaby."  

Do some of you think it's so appalling that Cuban would say something like that?  I, for one, would be like, '####### A.  It's about time someone had the balls to call this dude out for what he is.' 
I agree with much of this. But as soon as you call Trump a "crybaby", then you lose the high ground and you allow Trump (and his supporters) to claim victim status. Then they get to play the "Both sides!" card. Then you're forced to spend time and energy trying to explain why your insults are more justified than Trump's insults, and you distract everyone from the real issues, which plays right into Trump's hands.

And this is exactly what Trump (and his supporters) want. He wants you to insult him. Because then it will retroactively justify every terrible thing that he's done.

The key is to call him out without insulting him. Expose the terrible behavior without replicating it. Stick to the script. Don't let the sociopath get what he wants.

 
I agree with much of this. But as soon as you call Trump a "crybaby", then you lose the high ground and you allow Trump (and his supporters) to claim victim status. Then they get to play the "Both sides!" card. Then you're forced to spend time and energy trying to explain why your insults are more justified than Trump's insults, and you distract everyone from the real issues, which plays right into Trump's hands.

And this is exactly what Trump (and his supporters) want. He wants you to insult him. Because then it will retroactively justify every terrible thing that he's done.

The key is to call him out without insulting him. Expose the terrible behavior without replicating it. Stick to the script. Don't let the sociopath get what he wants.
You're right about Trumplicans playing the victim card.  It's the response to that that's key. No apologies.  More strength.  They want to cry about being called crybabies.  Tell them thank you for proving your point.  

Perceived strength is what helped Trump win.  The Dems having to apologize for every little thing feeds right into the weak look.  That doesn't mean Dems need to be #######s, but have some freaking confidence in who you are and quit apologizing all the time.  

 
I have heard Maher be critical of all religions and he is agnostic.  This clip singles out his criticism of Islam and he is not making things up, just saying things some don`t want to hear.
I think we're seeing evidence of that in this thread.  It's all fun shtick until he turns the mirror on you.   

 
The reason people call Bill Maher a bigot, is because Bill Maher is a bigot.  The link works- you simply click on it, and then watch the clips of Maher being a racist bigot.  

 
Maher is an aware liberal, I consider myself an aware liberal as well. Some things are what they are no matter what party you support.
I like that and I kind of agree

It's alright to be a liberal and talk about immigration

When I think of Muslims I don't think terrorism at all but i do think a religion from the stone age that is terrible for women and gays etc...

 
I agree with much of this. But as soon as you call Trump a "crybaby", then you lose the high ground and you allow Trump (and his supporters) to claim victim status. Then they get to play the "Both sides!" card. Then you're forced to spend time and energy trying to explain why your insults are more justified than Trump's insults, and you distract everyone from the real issues, which plays right into Trump's hands.

And this is exactly what Trump (and his supporters) want. He wants you to insult him. Because then it will retroactively justify every terrible thing that he's done.

The key is to call him out without insulting him. Expose the terrible behavior without replicating it. Stick to the script. Don't let the sociopath get what he wants.
Bless his heart.

 
What did you think was good about it?
I agree with basically all of it.

"Latinx" is dumb. "Defund the police" is terrible messaging. Hypersensitive wokeness is a turnoff. Looting should not be defended or excused. Obsessions with intersectionality are tedious. And people do vote based on that kind of stuff and the image it projects rather than on substantive policy.

Obama and Biden have given no succor to any of that stuff, but the whole party still gets tarred by it.

 
I agree with basically all of it.

"Latinx" is dumb. "Defund the police" is terrible messaging. Hypersensitive wokeness is a turnoff. Looting should not be defended or excused. Obsessions with intersectionality are tedious. And people do vote based on that kind of stuff and the image it projects rather than on substantive policy.

Obama and Biden have given no succor to any of that stuff, but the whole party still gets tarred by it.
I agree 100%. As a centered moderate all of the things listed keep me out of the Democratic Party and absolutely push me right. I voted R down ticket (other then Trump) almost solely because of it but I wasn’t happy doing it. The way the right has acquiesced to Trumpism almost had me leaving everything other then the POTUS and props blank. I should be a target audience for the Dems as a socially liberal Californian but they’ve gone too far.  

 
I agree with basically all of it.

"Latinx" is dumb. "Defund the police" is terrible messaging. Hypersensitive wokeness is a turnoff. Looting should not be defended or excused. Obsessions with intersectionality are tedious. And people do vote based on that kind of stuff and the image it projects rather than on substantive policy.

Obama and Biden have given no succor to any of that stuff, but the whole party still gets tarred by it.
Well  said.  I am not a big fan of Maher, but I think he got this one mostly right.  

 
More good advice for Democrats from Bill Maher:

https://twitter.com/billmaher/status/1327478205733687297

(Language NSFW.)
I tend to agree.  I'm a Canadian Conservative but definitely lean left in the US.  I have a 17 year old daughter who is quite Left and I constantly have to tell her to not use tweets as facts and to dive into issues more.  She is pretty bright and will start to use more common sense as she gets older.  She loves AOC and I think that's OK, but I also make sure she understands that the US is not ready to be Canada or Europe.  They allow religion and other things to still invade their politics, and if the Democrat party leans to much to the left then they will not get elected.

 
I can  typically do about 5 minutes of Maher before I turn the channel.....but he does come correct occasionally, and I think this is one of those moments.  In fact, he expressed very well how I would say the majority of conservatives I know, feel.  

I'm not sure the call for common sense will work with much of the left.....the more moderate, yes.  But that's not who he's talking to..... The cancel culture who hates middle America, and thinks Gender fluidity should be taught to grade school kids, is not going to just stop with all that....so you will continue to have a divided base.  And the conservatives will continue to land the people who are not going to accept the far left nonsense

 
More than the "purity" that Obama mentions is the intellectual superiority that the left buys into......"college educated" does not always equate to superior intelligence, especially in the ways of the real world.  College campuses continue to become echo chambers of the left and they pump out idealistic young adults who are ready to force their far left views on the idiot, bigoted, rednecks.

 
What did you think was good about it?
I agree with basically all of it.

"Latinx" is dumb. "Defund the police" is terrible messaging. Hypersensitive wokeness is a turnoff. Looting should not be defended or excused. Obsessions with intersectionality are tedious. And people do vote based on that kind of stuff and the image it projects rather than on substantive policy.

Obama and Biden have given no succor to any of that stuff, but the whole party still gets tarred by it.
OK here's my take, as mentioned earlier I thought it was crap. 

I'm too lazy to go bit by bit through the entire video to state my objections to everything (there are a lot), but I'll just focus on the section in the middle where he chose 3 illustrative stories that he says people see on their newsfeeds that make them think "these people are nuts."  It turns out that if you actually look into the stories at all, the people are not nuts at all.  It seems to me that Maher inadvertently pointed out that the actual problem is a right wing media machine pumping out false narratives to a public that's been conditioned for years to believe this crap is true and that's too lazy to read past a headline.

Here were the three stories:

1) The first was the story about Anne Hathaway's new movie "The Witches."  Maher says that Hathaway apologized last week because the character has three fingers on each hand and that was offensive to people with limb differences.  And he was mocking the whole time with air quotes around limb differences and eye rolls and sighing.

Well as far as I'm concerned when I read the story it's a positive story about people learning and being nice to each other.  It turns out there's a real disorder that isn't all that uncommon where people have three fingers on their hands.  And this is a kids movie.  And the scary witch has the same hands they do.  And there's nobody else portrayed in media that has three fingers.  So maybe that's a little upsetting to kids who have this condition.  And some disability advocates made their objections known.

Well Anne Hathawy read about the backlash, said she didn't even know about this condition, and issued an apology.  In part it said "[l]et me begin by saying I do my best to be sensitive to the feelings and experiences of others not out of some scrambling PC fear, but because not hurting others seems like a basic level of decency we should all be striving for."  That seems like a pretty decent thing to do.  Then as part of her apology she tweeted out the name of a charity that helps children with limb disorders.  She wasn't forced to apologize by anybody.  She did it because that's what a decent person SHOULD do when they inadvertently hurt the feelings of a bunch of little kids.  And wait, now Democrats are responsible for whatver Anne Hathaway does?

The only way to make this story about how Democrats need to do things differently is by omitting all the important contextual information and adding in eye rolls and sighs instead and then pointing at a squirrel.

Anne Hathaway story

2) OK, the second story is about the Arizona Coyotes draft pick who they dumped.  Maher describes it as "he bullied a disabled kid in 8th grade."  And then Maher criticizes "liberals" for going after people for what they did in middle school.

But again, that's not even close to a complete or accurate story.  I'm not a hockey fan so I had to look it up but the guy beat on this kid for years and called him the N word and made him lick candy from the urinal.  It was so bad he actually was arrested and convicted -- how much bullying actually rises to that level?  And Maher talking about "8th Grade!" is ridiculous, he just graduated high school this year it was only a few years ago.  But most of all, how is this the fault of the liberals?  This is what makes people vote for Democrats?  Isn't the conservative position that businesses should be able to hire and fire whoever they want?  Maybe a professional hockey team would prefer not to pay a sadistic racist jerk millions of dollars to be the face of their franchise?  Why should they be forced to?

Again, the only way to make this story about how Democrats need to do things differently is by omitting all the important contextual information and then also pretending somehow that Democrats own a hockey team.
Coyotes draft pick story

3) The last story is about how Mario Lopez from Access Hollywood went on a podcast and said it was ridiculous for parents to let three year old kids pick their gender identity. NBC News then had a meeting to decide if he should be fired (he wasn't).  Lopez issued an apology.  Maher describes this all as off-putting because most Americans agree with Lopez.

But again Maher tells a very selective story.  Even though it might be true that lots of Americans agree with Lopez, the people that disagree with Lopez include the overwhelming majority of people who actually treat and help transgender youth, including organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics.  Those experts state in fact that Lopez's position on this issue is harmful to children. 

And all NBC apparently did was have a meeting.  Because of course they should have a meeting.  They can't afford to lose viewers because the hosts of these dumb entertainment shows go on podcasts and spout controversial political opinions.  I suspect they also would have had a meeting if he had said "defund the police" on the podcast.  

So again, entertainment host goes on show, spouts an uninformed and controversial opinion.  As a result, his employer has a discussion about whether he should be fired but chooses not to.  And the host learns something about the issue and apologizes.  Why is this bad?  Why is this making people vote against Democrats? 

The reason is because people aren't hearing the whole story.  They're hearing a selectively edited version of the story designed to stir up outrage and actually diminish understanding of others.  And Maher is guilty here in the same way as the right wing media often is.

-----

In my experience I often find "common sense" to be a nice way of saying "I have only a rudimentary understanding and don't want to make any effort to understand nuances." The less informed and attentive our citizenry is, the more that "common sense" will diverge from actual good policy.  Maher actually somehow misses this point, despite the fact that he jokes about how Democrats come across as not having common sense --- to people that believe in Q-Anon!  It seems to me that joke completely destroys his entire argument.  Maybe we shouldn't be appealing to these people's common sense at all.

And I guess that's my broader criticism of Maher's critique.  To the extent that the criticisms are about language or marketing ideas, whatever, that's not a particularly novel observation.  But Maher's criticisms go beyond just how Democrats should market themselves, they go towards how Democrats should act on issues in which, I happen to think Democrats are actually on the right side and will ultimately be successful.  It takes time to change minds, and really that's the long term goal.  Maher says "it would be so easy to win elections if we just drop this ####," but at some point it's not just about winning elections, it's about fighting for the right things and taking honorable stances even when they're unpopular.

 
OK here's my take, as mentioned earlier I thought it was crap..
I hadn't known anything about those three examples, except I'm pretty sure that Anne Hathaway is awesome so any criticism of her is inherently suspect. If those are bad examples, as they appear to be, shame on Bill Maher. But the examples are truthy even if they're untrue. They seem plausible when you first hear them because there have been other examples along the same lines. If we wanted to google "examples of oversensitive political correctness" (or whatever better query we come up with), I believe we'd find plenty of instances of genuine silliness coming from the far left.

Part of that's a PR problem because of course there will be instances of silliness out there. The right-wing media apparatus is effective at promoting them and blowing them out of proportion.

But I think the response from liberals that isn't as prominent as it should be is to agree that the (genuine) silliness is silly and to condemn it rather than defending it. In response to "Defund the police," there should be less, "actually, what that really means is..." and more "those people on the fringe don't speak for us!" Same with "looting isn't truly violent" or "what's truly violent is neglecting to post a black square on facebook."

We'll never stop people from saying that kind of stuff. Whenever it's said, it will predictably propagate through the network of conservative info-bubbles. That much is unavoidable. We can reduce the damage, though, by joining the conservatives' derision of such things rather than reflexively defending them. (I'm talking only about genuine silliness. Examples like the Anne Hathaway situation should be defended.)

 
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2) OK, the second story is about the Arizona Coyotes draft pick who they dumped.  Maher describes it as "he bullied a disabled kid in 8th grade."  And then Maher criticizes "liberals" for going after people for what they did in middle school.

But again, that's not even close to a complete or accurate story.  I'm not a hockey fan so I had to look it up but the guy beat on this kid for years and called him the N word and made him lick candy from the urinal.  It was so bad he actually was arrested and convicted -- how much bullying actually rises to that level?  And Maher talking about "8th Grade!" is ridiculous, he just graduated high school this year it was only a few years ago.
Wow. Really awful story and really awful for Maher to try to downplay it.

 
 If those are bad examples, as they appear to be, shame on Bill Maher. But the examples are truthy even if they're untrue. They seem plausible when you first hear them because there have been other examples along the same lines.
People are conditioned to believe that because there are so many bad examples pushed by a dishonest right wing media trying to stir up outrage.  That's why they sound truthy.  Because people are barraged with crap like this all day.  And its almost impossible for the responsible media to rebut the nonsense because people that watch those right wing sources often aren't watching anything else.  So people believe things are truthy that actually are incredibly rare and not very truthy at all.  And then those truthy things become "common sense" like how the McDonald's hot coffee case showed that frivolous lawsuits are out of control.  

 
I agree with basically all of it.

"Latinx" is dumb. "Defund the police" is terrible messaging. Hypersensitive wokeness is a turnoff. Looting should not be defended or excused. Obsessions with intersectionality are tedious. And people do vote based on that kind of stuff and the image it projects rather than on substantive policy.

Obama and Biden have given no succor to any of that stuff, but the whole party still gets tarred by it.
A lot of good stuff in that video.

 
People are conditioned to believe that because there are so many bad examples pushed by a dishonest right wing media trying to stir up outrage.  That's why they sound truthy.  Because people are barraged with crap like this all day.  And its almost impossible for the responsible media to rebut the nonsense because people that watch those right wing sources often aren't watching anything else.  So people believe things are truthy that actually are incredibly rare and not very truthy at all.  And then those truthy things become "common sense" like how the McDonald's hot coffee case showed that frivolous lawsuits are out of control.  
I had heard about the hockey bullying.  The bully continued this for years and barely apologized when he was forced to in court.  I was happy when I heard they booted him.  He was 16 or 17 years old, which I think is old enough to know right from wrong.

 
I had heard about the hockey bullying.  The bully continued this for years and barely apologized when he was forced to in court.  I was happy when I heard they booted him.  He was 16 or 17 years old, which I think is old enough to know right from wrong.
From the story linked above, he was around 14.

But this wasn't just a case of "14 year old bullied someone."

It was a case of "14 year old repeatedly tormented and harassed a developmentally-delayed kid, culminating in a physical assault that was brutal enough to get the police involved and which resulted in an assault conviction."

For Bill Maher to twist that into some sort of bizarre rant about woke liberal cancel culture is really, really dishonest.

 
OK here's my take, as mentioned earlier I thought it was crap. 

I'm too lazy to go bit by bit through the entire video to state my objections to everything (there are a lot), but I'll just focus on the section in the middle where he chose 3 illustrative stories that he says people see on their newsfeeds that make them think "these people are nuts."  It turns out that if you actually look into the stories at all, the people are not nuts at all.  It seems to me that Maher inadvertently pointed out that the actual problem is a right wing media machine pumping out false narratives to a public that's been conditioned for years to believe this crap is true and that's too lazy to read past a headline.

Here were the three stories:

1) The first was the story about Anne Hathaway's new movie "The Witches."  Maher says that Hathaway apologized last week because the character has three fingers on each hand and that was offensive to people with limb differences.  And he was mocking the whole time with air quotes around limb differences and eye rolls and sighing.

Well as far as I'm concerned when I read the story it's a positive story about people learning and being nice to each other.  It turns out there's a real disorder that isn't all that uncommon where people have three fingers on their hands.  And this is a kids movie.  And the scary witch has the same hands they do.  And there's nobody else portrayed in media that has three fingers.  So maybe that's a little upsetting to kids who have this condition.  And some disability advocates made their objections known.

Well Anne Hathawy read about the backlash, said she didn't even know about this condition, and issued an apology.  In part it said "[l]et me begin by saying I do my best to be sensitive to the feelings and experiences of others not out of some scrambling PC fear, but because not hurting others seems like a basic level of decency we should all be striving for."  That seems like a pretty decent thing to do.  Then as part of her apology she tweeted out the name of a charity that helps children with limb disorders.  She wasn't forced to apologize by anybody.  She did it because that's what a decent person SHOULD do when they inadvertently hurt the feelings of a bunch of little kids.  And wait, now Democrats are responsible for whatver Anne Hathaway does?

The only way to make this story about how Democrats need to do things differently is by omitting all the important contextual information and adding in eye rolls and sighs instead and then pointing at a squirrel.

Anne Hathaway story

2) OK, the second story is about the Arizona Coyotes draft pick who they dumped.  Maher describes it as "he bullied a disabled kid in 8th grade."  And then Maher criticizes "liberals" for going after people for what they did in middle school.

But again, that's not even close to a complete or accurate story.  I'm not a hockey fan so I had to look it up but the guy beat on this kid for years and called him the N word and made him lick candy from the urinal.  It was so bad he actually was arrested and convicted -- how much bullying actually rises to that level?  And Maher talking about "8th Grade!" is ridiculous, he just graduated high school this year it was only a few years ago.  But most of all, how is this the fault of the liberals?  This is what makes people vote for Democrats?  Isn't the conservative position that businesses should be able to hire and fire whoever they want?  Maybe a professional hockey team would prefer not to pay a sadistic racist jerk millions of dollars to be the face of their franchise?  Why should they be forced to?

Again, the only way to make this story about how Democrats need to do things differently is by omitting all the important contextual information and then also pretending somehow that Democrats own a hockey team.
Coyotes draft pick story

3) The last story is about how Mario Lopez from Access Hollywood went on a podcast and said it was ridiculous for parents to let three year old kids pick their gender identity. NBC News then had a meeting to decide if he should be fired (he wasn't).  Lopez issued an apology.  Maher describes this all as off-putting because most Americans agree with Lopez.

But again Maher tells a very selective story.  Even though it might be true that lots of Americans agree with Lopez, the people that disagree with Lopez include the overwhelming majority of people who actually treat and help transgender youth, including organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics.  Those experts state in fact that Lopez's position on this issue is harmful to children. 

And all NBC apparently did was have a meeting.  Because of course they should have a meeting.  They can't afford to lose viewers because the hosts of these dumb entertainment shows go on podcasts and spout controversial political opinions.  I suspect they also would have had a meeting if he had said "defund the police" on the podcast.  

So again, entertainment host goes on show, spouts an uninformed and controversial opinion.  As a result, his employer has a discussion about whether he should be fired but chooses not to.  And the host learns something about the issue and apologizes.  Why is this bad?  Why is this making people vote against Democrats? 

The reason is because people aren't hearing the whole story.  They're hearing a selectively edited version of the story designed to stir up outrage and actually diminish understanding of others.  And Maher is guilty here in the same way as the right wing media often is.

-----

In my experience I often find "common sense" to be a nice way of saying "I have only a rudimentary understanding and don't want to make any effort to understand nuances." The less informed and attentive our citizenry is, the more that "common sense" will diverge from actual good policy.  Maher actually somehow misses this point, despite the fact that he jokes about how Democrats come across as not having common sense --- to people that believe in Q-Anon!  It seems to me that joke completely destroys his entire argument.  Maybe we shouldn't be appealing to these people's common sense at all.

And I guess that's my broader criticism of Maher's critique.  To the extent that the criticisms are about language or marketing ideas, whatever, that's not a particularly novel observation.  But Maher's criticisms go beyond just how Democrats should market themselves, they go towards how Democrats should act on issues in which, I happen to think Democrats are actually on the right side and will ultimately be successful.  It takes time to change minds, and really that's the long term goal.  Maher says "it would be so easy to win elections if we just drop this ####," but at some point it's not just about winning elections, it's about fighting for the right things and taking honorable stances even when they're unpopular.
Well the hockey dude sounds like a D bag who deserves to not be a millionaire for being good at sports......

The gender thing is a whole different can of worms.  Obviously if you've got a child who needs guidance in this area then you show support and love.......but I'm reading about parents who are raising their children as non-binary from the get-go.......imo, as long as children can be identified and deal with it on a case by case basis, fine......I don't want schools filling my children's heads with confusing gender stuff at an early age though.....I think that's prolly what Lopez was trying to express, but did so poorly and got lit up.....

The Hathaway thing......meh

Maher maybe didnt have the greatest examples, but the point is still valid.  The virtue signalling of the left, and being offended by everything doesn't work with most of Americans......it works in places like portland and liberal college campuses......aka, not the real world!😃

 
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I agree with basically all of it.

"Latinx" is dumb. "Defund the police" is terrible messaging. Hypersensitive wokeness is a turnoff. Looting should not be defended or excused. Obsessions with intersectionality are tedious. And people do vote based on that kind of stuff and the image it projects rather than on substantive policy.

Obama and Biden have given no succor to any of that stuff, but the whole party still gets tarred by it.
112 co-sponsors of Medicare for All were on the ballot. All of them won. 98 co-sponsors of the Green New Deal were on the ballot. Only 1 lost.

Must be outliers

 
112 co-sponsors of Medicare for All were on the ballot. All of them won. 98 co-sponsors of the Green New Deal were on the ballot. Only 1 lost.

Must be outliers
The takeaway here is not, "Liberal legislation has broad appeal."

The takeaway here is, "Liberal districts tend to elect people who are willing to sponsor controversial legislation because they know that their district won't vote them out of office."

 
The takeaway here is not, "Liberal legislation has broad appeal."

The takeaway here is, "Liberal districts tend to elect people who are willing to sponsor controversial legislation because they know that their district won't vote them out of office."
National polling data would suggest otherwise.  Keep shifting right I guess and be prepared to lose POTUS in '24.

 
The takeaway here is not, "Liberal legislation has broad appeal."

The takeaway here is, "Liberal districts tend to elect people who are willing to sponsor controversial legislation because they know that their district won't vote them out of office."
National polling data would suggest otherwise.  Keep shifting right I guess and be prepared to lose POTUS in '24.
If the Democrats lose in 2024, it will have more to do with trusting national polls than it will have to do with endorsing liberal legislation.

 
If the Democrats lose in 2024, it will have more to do with trusting national polls than it will have to do with endorsing liberal legislation.
Actually it will have more to do with taking its constituents for granted.  Again.  That and enabling corporations to depress wages, increasing the cost of living  and throwing more Americans below the poverty line so Fox news doesn't call us socialists.  

 

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