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Bills Fake FG: Special Teams TD or not? (1 Viewer)

RoosterScott

RoosterScott

Footballguy
Did anyone else who had CBSportsline commissioner for scoring service is still waiting for the 6 pts from the fake fg by the BUFF special teams/defense. I understand usually they wait til the next day but wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one. It should get credited for a special teams BUFF TD! I don't see it yet and am waiting. Any thoughts??

 
RoosterScott said:
Is Moorman the QB or the punter? Are FG considered special teams? This will get rung up as a ST td in my league!
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Fake or Broken Play Resulting In A TD.* Scenario: Team A scores a Rushing (or Passing) TD as the result of a fake or broken play.

* Result: Regardless of whether this play started out offensively or as a Special Teams play (i.e., a punt or FG formation), the NFL, and myfantasyleague.com by extension, recognize this as a Rushing (or Passing TD) awarded to the team offense and the players involved for the distance from the line of scrimmage to the end zone.

Ruling link

It appears this is an official NFL ruling. I agree with you it doesn't seem right. However this the way the NFL has chosen to count it. I don't see how or why a league could change that.

 
My league uses rtsports.com and the Bills D/ST got credited with that touchdown. I have no idea why as we didn't adjust the defensive scoring this year and it never counted for the D/ST in the past. I'm not complaining since I started the Bills, but I was very surprised to see it. I agree that it should simply be scored as an offensive play.

 
RoosterScott said:
Is Moorman the QB or the punter? Are FG considered special teams? This will get rung up as a ST td in my league!
Click to expand...
He is the QB. Just like if a RB throws a pass. Just go IDP and you won't have this problem.
 
Does the NFL score this? I didn't get points with Sportsline. Not sure I should.

Trying to get a feel. Perhaps it depends on your rules?

Curious what the Sharks think.

 
depends how your league is setup i guess.. my leagues are setup so only Defensive TDs are score for the DEF (pick returns, fumble returns)... Otherwise, we have it set so that for special teams TDs, it's credited to the individuals involved in the play.. so basically, our league only scores DEF, not ST.. but if your league is set to combine DEF/ST as one unit, i would say it counts towards that.. i mean the Special Teams unit was on the field.

 
My league says no. If lined up for a placekick, we call it offense and award points to individuals. If lined up for a punt, special teams/d gets the points.

 
Fake or Broken Play Resulting In A TD.

* Scenario: Team A scores a Rushing (or Passing) TD as the result of a fake or broken play.

* Result: Regardless of whether this play started out offensively or as a Special Teams play (i.e., a punt or FG formation), the NFL, and myfantasyleague.com by extension, recognize this as a Rushing (or Passing TD) awarded to the team offense and the players involved for the distance from the line of scrimmage to the end zone.

-Taken From MFL help section #15 How does MyFantasyLeague.com score special/strange plays?

It appears that is how the NFL Rules it.

 
crowe1130 said:
My league says no. If lined up for a placekick, we call it offense and award points to individuals. If lined up for a punt, special teams/d gets the points.
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This makes sense. Thanks CBower also.Thanks to those who used this as an opportunity to edify rather than waste valuable BB space.[edit to thank CBower]
 
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no...they are still on offense...until the ball leaves his foot and travels beyond the neutral zone.....

in general scoring, if the punt or kick is blocked behind the neutral zone, the offense can still pick it up and advance (and get a 1st down) so they are still considered on offense.....

the Buffalo play is just as if they went for it on 4th down, just different offensive personnle in the game...

 
Buffalo Bills game - Should the fake field goal that resulted in a TD be counted as a special teams TD?

Both my leagues are RTSports and the league I don't have the Bills D it counted as D/SPT TD. In my league where I started the Bills, it did not count.

Do I have an argument?

 
There have already been like 5 threads about this.

IMO it is DEFINITELY an offensive TD. As far as I know this is the way the NFL views it as well. Someone else put it best by saying something like "Think of it like they went for it on 4th down, just with different personnel on the field." It is not a special teams play unless the kicker actually kicks the ball - otherwise it is an offensive play like any other.

However, depending on your league's rules, it may be handled differently. None of us can help you with that.

 
No you do not have a case as 4th down is defined as an offensive down. The fact that someone other than Edwards threw the TD is irrelevent. I cannot find any precendent where the NFL considers "fakes" as D/ST plays. Returns, blocks, mucked returns for kicking team TDs, etc.. are D/ST plays, but a 4th down fake is not.

 
OFFICIALLY it's NOT a Special Teams TD because the ball was not kicked.

Ball is kicked = Special Teams Play

Ball not kicked = Regular Offensive Play

However, my league scores all such plays for the D/ST. Which is the way it should be IMO. It's much more "in the spirit" of what fantasy football is about, I think.

 
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I think the ball has to be kicked past the line of scrimmage for it to be considered a "special teams" play.

 
The key to determining whether or not a play is a special teams play is really quite simple. There is one rule to apply:

* If the ball is kicked, or an attempt was made to kick the ball (in other words, the kicker tried but was unable to get off a kick), it is a special teams play.

* Anything else is a regular, run-of-the-mill play from scrimmage. This includes fake punts and fake field goals.

Why aren't fake punts and fake field goals considered special teams plays?

The key word here is "fake." They never intended to kick the ball. They simply line up in a formation that was a decoy designed to make the opponent think they were going to kick the ball. If you line up, snap the ball, and then run or pass the ball - regardless of formation - you have just run a play from scrimmage. If a team is going for it on 4th down, what is the difference between lining up in a kicking formation vs. lining up in a normal offensive set? Other than the attempt to deceive their opponent - nothing!

 
A long LONG time ago, I read an article in a fantasy rag about things to clearly define when you set up new league rules. Of course, this is one of them and I whole-heartedly agree with the posters who state this is an offensive play. The fantasy rag (and I don't even remember which one - since it has been well over a decade) suggesting using the following language: Fake punts and fake field goals, do not count towards special teams scores as they are "too hard to define."

If need be, to appease the argument "well, the special teams unit was on the field" just add this language, "special teams scores are those following a kicked ball and of an offensive 'return' type nature only." IE punt returns, kickoff returns and even missed field goal returns. Blocked field goals and blocked punts returned for TD's count towards the defense. Fake field goals and fake punts which result in TD's only count for the offensive players involved and not towards special teams.

 
The Kansas Comet said:
My league uses rtsports.com and the Bills D/ST got credited with that touchdown. I have no idea why as we didn't adjust the defensive scoring this year and it never counted for the D/ST in the past. I'm not complaining since I started the Bills, but I was very surprised to see it. I agree that it should simply be scored as an offensive play.
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Are you sure it's not crediting you with the Punt Return by Roscoe Parrish?
 
the key in almost all of these situations is did the ball get past the neutral zone....and if so.....how

 
Im going to say this again.... sigh... there is offense and there is defense. Thats it.

There is no "special teams". There are plays that involve kicking and turnovers, in which case you have a "special" play bacause you switch off/def in the midst of the play. But truly you have off and def, thats it.

 
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This is 2008. Unless a league is composed of 12 people who have never done fantasy football before, how does a league not have this question resolved clearly long ago?

 
This is exactly how RTsports website scored it...

The fake fieldgoal touchdown by the Buffalo Bill is scored as a passing touchdown by the Buffalo special teams.

 
CBower4545 said:
RoosterScott said:
Is Moorman the QB or the punter? Are FG considered special teams? This will get rung up as a ST td in my league!
Click to expand...
Fake or Broken Play Resulting In A TD.* Scenario: Team A scores a Rushing (or Passing) TD as the result of a fake or broken play.

* Result: Regardless of whether this play started out offensively or as a Special Teams play (i.e., a punt or FG formation), the NFL, and myfantasyleague.com by extension, recognize this as a Rushing (or Passing TD) awarded to the team offense and the players involved for the distance from the line of scrimmage to the end zone.

Ruling link

It appears this is an official NFL ruling. I agree with you it doesn't seem right. However this the way the NFL has chosen to count it. I don't see how or why a league could change that.
Click to expand...
It's not an NFL ruling. It's an MFL ruling -- as in myfantasyleague.com.The NFL rules typically don't use words like "quarterback," "offense," "defense," or "special teams." They instead use words like "passer," "Team A" (the team that snaps the ball), and "Team B" (the team that doesn't snap the ball).

In conversational English, a fake field goal or fake punt is a special teams play. Teams practice it during the special teams portion of their practice, not the offense/defense portion.

But for fantasy purposes, in every league I've been in, points for touchdown passes and touchdown receptions are awarded to the individual players involved. Touchdowns for returns are awarded to defense/special teams.

As always, it will depend on the particular rules in your league. But by far the most common rules provisions would score this as an offensive touchdown, not a special teams touchdown.

 
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The special teams unit is on the field and the punter throws a TD pass to a defensive end. Come on, that's a special teams TD.

 
The Kansas Comet said:
My league uses rtsports.com and the Bills D/ST got credited with that touchdown. I have no idea why as we didn't adjust the defensive scoring this year and it never counted for the D/ST in the past. I'm not complaining since I started the Bills, but I was very surprised to see it. I agree that it should simply be scored as an offensive play.
Click to expand...
RTSports gives the commissioner the ability to count these as special teams passing TD's or not. there is an option under the rules/scoring to do so. So, it is a choice. you have to choose to make this a special teams TD under your scoring with RTSports. the default is that it is NOT a special teams TD.
 
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BigA said:
Buffalo Bills game - Should the fake field goal that resulted in a TD be counted as a special teams TD? Both my leagues are RTSports and the league I don't have the Bills D it counted as D/SPT TD. In my league where I started the Bills, it did not count. Do I have an argument?
Click to expand...
see my post above regarding RTSports. it can be counted either way in the scoring depending on how the commissioner sets it up.
 
I have a very simple rule in my league that determines whether a play is ST or not.

Did the ball leave a kickers foot?

If the answer is yes, it's a Special Teams play. If the answer is no, it's not.

 
Synthesizer said:
The special teams unit is on the field and the punter throws a TD pass to a defensive end. Come on, that's a special teams TD.
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By saying this you open up all sorts of gray areas for debate. When it comes to ST I think the more objective the better. My league uses "Once the football touches a kicker's foot, whatever happens after that is ST". With that rule, there's nothing open for debate. Either it happened or it didn't and any play the touches a kickers foot will always be reflected in the boxscore so it's easy to double-check.
 
it is a special teams play - you drafted the BUF DST and the BUFFALO DST pulled the play off

answer these questions:

1) did the OFFENSE work on this play in practice or did the SPECIAL TEAMS work on this play in practice?

2) did the SPECIAL TEAMS coach get a pat on the back after is was succesful or did the OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR get the back pat?

some of you seem to be making the "safe black and white skeerd of owner criticism rulesy call" instead of the "right call" because you know it is a special teams play

just my honest blunt opinion sorry

the offense had their special teams players in and so did the defense and the answer to the above two questions is SPECIAL TEAMS

 
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FantasyTrader said:
Synthesizer said:
The special teams unit is on the field and the punter throws a TD pass to a defensive end. Come on, that's a special teams TD.
Click to expand...
By saying this you open up all sorts of gray areas for debate. When it comes to ST I think the more objective the better. My league uses "Once the football touches a kicker's foot, whatever happens after that is ST". With that rule, there's nothing open for debate. Either it happened or it didn't and any play the touches a kickers foot will always be reflected in the boxscore so it's easy to double-check.
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I'm ok with gray areas. We're playing fantasy football here. We should be trying to reward the players/defenses/special teams that have the biggest impact on the actual football game.
 
p.s. if you just HAVE to have a back and white rule how bout this...

if a kicker or punter is on the field WHEN THE BALL IS SNAPPED then it is a special teams play

 
Lash said:
p.s. if you just HAVE to have a back and white rule how bout this...if a kicker or punter is on the field WHEN THE BALL IS SNAPPED then it is a special teams play
Click to expand...
Then what happens when McNabb is on the field as the QB and he quick-kicks it?
 
Philo said:
Lash said:
p.s. if you just HAVE to have a back and white rule how bout this...if a kicker or punter is on the field WHEN THE BALL IS SNAPPED then it is a special teams play
Click to expand...
Then what happens when McNabb is on the field as the QB and he quick-kicks it?
Click to expand...
good pointmaybe he would be a punter on that play cause if it was returned for a TD i'd have to say the DST would get credit
 
The commissioner of my league is saying that the Bills fake FG for a TD is not a D/ST score, that is an offensive play Moorman to Denney TD. I also noticed that Joe has it that way in the subscriber contest. This flat out does not make sense to me. Can someone please explain it terms that only a Buffalo Bills fan could understand?

 
Fake punts/FG's are considered offensive plays by the NFL. Most fantasy leagues (rightfully, IMHO) follow suit. If the team throws an interception on a fake FG, would you want a -2 for your ST's?

 
Does a FG count towards special teams points...of course not....so why would a TD pass?

 
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