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Brady's suspension overturned. Playing week 1 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Buzzbait
- Start date
Seems like the judge to ignore this entire aspect of the case.Bronco Billy said:
The CBA negotiated by the players gives pretty much complete authority to the Commissioner/League. To me, the whole deflation bit is/was a red herring for the real issue - namely, a player (team) can't set himself above the league.
Destroying the evidence was brushed aside by the judge. Not really sure why.
It is so funny how people can see two totally different things from one document. Did you read what the judge highlighted as his reasons for overturning the suspension? Also, the CBA negotiated by the players doesn't pretty much give complete authority to the commissioner/league. Didn't ADP get his suspension overturned in February? Greg Hardy got his suspension reduced by an arbitrator to 4 games from 10. Even Ray Rice got his suspension overturned last year. Seems like more and more cases where the Commissioner/league went around the CBA and are losing every time.
Also, maybe something was brushed aside because the NFL refused access to Pash, refused to turn over documents and seemed to be arbitrary in their actions (Minny getting no action for warming balls on sideline and Jay Feely not even getting investigated for ball tampering). I'm not a Pats fan, although I do own Gronk in one league, so I am happy about the decision.
dansav
Footballguy
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Maybe read his decision and you'll learn why. Hint: Labor laws > CBA.
And Brady destroying his phone was completely irrelevant because the judge was ruling on process, not fact.
This isn't difficult people. The NFL set up a biased investigation, put in a completely unprecedented punishment with no fair notice (a legal requirement), and refused Brady lawyers access to a key witness during the appeal. Each of these violates the "law of shop" though the judge focused on the latter two.
But hey, omg, he destroyed his phone.
parrot
Footballguy
Even under CBAs companies/leagues still have to give fair due process and follow relevant legal standards and precedents. A commissioner can't just set himself up as a dictator outside the law anymore than a CEO can.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Don't feel too special. I also spent a ton of time in Barry Bonds threads. I hate cheaters.
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
On top of everything else, they dropped this on him the week before the SB. He really can only set it to the side at that time, concentrate on team, game. Maybe right after the SB Brady could've come out and explained that he likes the balls on the softer side... so what? Did he tell anyone to deflate them below the legal limit? No. But he's still a cheater? That reasoning doesn't make sense. If it does Aaron Rodgers and various others are cheaters. And the NFL's "system" of "checking" AFTER THERE WAS SUSPICION OF SOMETHING? involved 2 different reading gauges, uncontrolled testing, random conclusions... lol. And btw- Brady used "hard" footballs to torch the Colts and then beat the Seahawks. The NFL should've just said, leave the balls alone, we'll improve our control over the situation. End of story. The "integrity" in question here is Goodells and his underlings. I say stay tough on domestic violence, child abuse, PED's.
Comparing Rodgers telling his guys to put the air pressure at the upper edge BEFORE the officials inspection and The Deflator sneaking into a bathroom to let air out AFTER the officials' inspection is just ridiculous. One is pushing the limits of the rule (like the Pats did with their substitutions in the Ravens game), and the other is cheating.
As for the results using 'hard' balls, it's irrelevant. To assume the Colts game was the first time that The Deflator did that is naïve. It may have been the reason the Patriots had so few lost fumbles on the year. It may have affected a few games. Home filed advantage. Many things. I'm not pretending to know if they were doing that for several games or several seasons. I, or you, have no idea.
Koya
Footballguy
You tried that once. The Giant's snuffed out any chance not only at eternal greatness, but even winning.
In super historical Super Bowls, NY Giants 1, Pats 0. Or 18-1, however you prefer.
PS - I do think brady is going to come out on ####### fire. And hope they beat pitts, but in a shootout with 7 Roeths RD passes. THANK GOD we can talk real fake football and not the Patriots cheating scandal de jour.
I think part of the disconnect here is that the NFL's standard of proof was not, is not, and SHOULD NOT BE "beyond a reasonable doubt." NFL suspensions are far more in line with civil cases, where the standard is, has been, and (arguably) should be "more likely than not".
That said, while I believe the NFL met this lesser standard, it's absurd for the the same guy giving punishment to be the one to decide appeals, and (at least in this case), the more likely than not measurement was the only legal one barely met at all. It's pretty clear at this point that the NFL tried too hard to make it seem they met a higher standard than "more likely than not" and made some serious mistakes in doing so.
Whether or not any of us personally believe Brady was involved and cheating, I think we can all agree in the hope that maybe this leads to a better system of punishment and arbitration for the NFL. I think most of us also believe/agree that at this point Goodell should be dropping this instead of further pursuing it in court.
Koya
Footballguy
Two things to remember:
1. Brady may have gotten off, but not because he is not guilty of knowing cheating was going on. It was because Goodells reign of terror just doesn't pass muster.
2. The Pats were STILL caught cheating. AGAIN. The Team accepted the damn punishment. It's on the record.
So, debate all you want as to the punishment and all, but remember, there is no debate that the Pats cheated. And were caught. And capitulated.
Again.
Should we take wagers on the next time they will be caught cheating? And, will BB actually get banned from the NFL, as he narrowly avoided this time?
Let's take some callers.
1. Brady may have gotten off, but not because he is not guilty of knowing cheating was going on. It was because Goodells reign of terror just doesn't pass muster.
2. The Pats were STILL caught cheating. AGAIN. The Team accepted the damn punishment. It's on the record.
So, debate all you want as to the punishment and all, but remember, there is no debate that the Pats cheated. And were caught. And capitulated.
Again.
Should we take wagers on the next time they will be caught cheating? And, will BB actually get banned from the NFL, as he narrowly avoided this time?
Let's take some callers.
No, not at all. The judge did not ignore the destroying-the-evidence component. If anything, by explicitly basing part of his ruling on the fact that the NFL should have proven Brady participated in the wrongdoings, he suggests his view is that some wrongdoings likely happened. Given the history of the case - beyond just the phone stuff - I think most unbiased observers would agree that's more likely than not.
This is also why you don't hear Kraft talking about an appeal to the pick or fine. Any alleged deflation does not matter in this legal case, which is about the handling of the Brady case, the violation of any reasonable due process consistent with the American justice system, the randomness of suspensions and overall decision-making in comparable cases, and the usurped role of the NFL Commissioner as judge, jury and executioner in this perverse system. The judge's ruling (#####)slaps Goodell and the NFL for their thorough incompetence, demonstrated not just in Brady's case, but well beyond it. It hammers home the point that Goodell has no authority to dispense his own justice in a capricious and arbitrary manner, with no regard for the facts, evidence or lack thereof. I wouldn't be surprised if Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson or some of the other players who suffered from the same process, go after the league through the courts next.
This has been a long time coming and the chickens have finally come home to roost. I just hope it doesn't deter the NFL from stick to the hard line with all sorts of violent crimes and imbecile behavior. I just expect that hard line to be applied consistently and based on facts and agreed rules, and not on a Commissioner's caprices.
You sound like the Duke's in Trading Places. "Turn those machines back on". It's over. Time to go home.
dansav
Footballguy
Casting Couch
Footballguy
Give it up. It's over. Zero proof of Brady cheating. ZERO.
The haters lose...... again.
Good night.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Most teams/players/QB's cheat to some degree - every penalty is "cheating" to a degree because its breaking rules.
Fact is - the focus needs to go to the Colts as well as the Patriots - they had a high % of deflated balls too. Someone over there deflated them if someone in Pat's land did - call it both ways or don't call it at all
Fact is - the focus needs to go to the Colts as well as the Patriots - they had a high % of deflated balls too. Someone over there deflated them if someone in Pat's land did - call it both ways or don't call it at all
msudaisy26
Footballguy
This and I am a Patriots fan.
It seems like this was a witch hunt and personal for Goodell, I think it is that way because the Patriots push the rules to the limit more than any other team and yes I think all teams do it.
The vast majority of everything I have heard or read has always been that all the players around the league that gave comments on Deflategate have said they didn't think Brady should be suspended. Which leads me to believe all the teams do it in some form or another and all the other players think this was some minor infraction, that maybe deserved a fine.
I hope this gets Goodell fired/or forced to resign, his track record is awful with handling of players and any one in the world could run this league and turn a profit.
lol.
theplayer11
Footballguy
yet another who didn't read the wells report and has no clue about the ideal gas law...
yet another guy who doesn't understand that this trial had nothing to do with Brady's guilt or innocence.
theplayer11
Footballguy
I know exactly what this case was about...so sick of people babblimg without any knowledge
me too. And if you think the judge's ruling was a testament to Brady's innocence, then you're the babbling.
Road Warriors
Footballguy
Titan
Footballguy
Or the ones he used in the second half of the AFC title game against the Colts when he went 12-of-14 for 131 yards and two touchdowns?
HellToupee
Footballguy
where is the OUTRAGE over the NFL letting them play with the deflated balls in the 1st half. Colts got screwed there , I guess
Road Warriors
Footballguy
Please. "Carve up". How quickly we all forget that if not for the single worst play call in Super Bowl history, the Patriots lose.
Another poster asked who is worse: Brady, the media or the Brady fanboys. It is by far the fanboys who irritate me. Talk about pathetically living vicariously through a hero figure, and then blindly defending him. This decision was a legal exercise. Don't make the mistake of confusing a winning legal argument with uncovering the "truth".
msudaisy26
Footballguy
And how quickly you forget if not for one of the luckiest catches in Super Bowl history the Seahawks wouldn't have had a chance to call that play. Since when does winning or losing determine how well a quarterback did? We have seen quarterbacks throw for 400 and 4 and lose, but they still carved up the defense.
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dansav
Footballguy
Road Warriors
Footballguy
you seem tense. You should relax and enjoy life more. These things don't really impact your life at all. Getting irritated by fans of another team seems like a poor use of energy.
dansav
Footballguy
Kinda like the David Tyree catch??
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PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I like how Brady's suspension being overturned by federal court doesn't mean he didn't cheat, but Kraft accepting the team punishment means he must've.
Keep at it.
devouredbychaos
Footballguy
So many salty talking heads in this thread, and god do I love it 
I love watching the haters squirm and moan and cry while trying to make something out of nothing. Keep up the entertainment folks!
I love watching the haters squirm and moan and cry while trying to make something out of nothing. Keep up the entertainment folks!Short Corner
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
From the email today:
"Brady, if he plays 16 games, will easily be a top QB1."
"Brady is still a little shaky as a QB1..."
Oh.
"Brady, if he plays 16 games, will easily be a top QB1."
"Brady is still a little shaky as a QB1..."
Oh.
Workhorse
Footballguy
The team has no recourse to fight the draft pick/fine penalties because they have no CBA protection, unlike the players. "Accepting the punishment" isn't an acceptance of guilt: Take a look at Bob and Jonathan Kraft's comments on this matter. If you make this claim, you are simply inventing things out of whole cloth and aren't rooted in reality.
I wonder how many of you actually read Judge Berman's decision. This wasn't Brady getting off on a technicality here: He vacated the arbitration for several reasons relating to fundamental fairness of the process as well as the selective enforcement of a rule that had never been applied to players in the past for similar violations. For me, the most important part of his decision related to the NFL not allowing Brady to fight the conclusions of the Wells Report by restricting discovery of the interview notes as well as being able to directly examine Jeff Pash. Why did the NFL do this? Simple: BECAUSE THE DEFLATEGATE "EVIDENCE" WOULD FALL APART UNDER THAT SCRUTINY. The NFL knew this, so they stretched to claim privilege for all of that material. From a legal standpoint, that was laughable and will almost certainly stand up under appeal.
I wonder how many of you actually read Judge Berman's decision. This wasn't Brady getting off on a technicality here: He vacated the arbitration for several reasons relating to fundamental fairness of the process as well as the selective enforcement of a rule that had never been applied to players in the past for similar violations. For me, the most important part of his decision related to the NFL not allowing Brady to fight the conclusions of the Wells Report by restricting discovery of the interview notes as well as being able to directly examine Jeff Pash. Why did the NFL do this? Simple: BECAUSE THE DEFLATEGATE "EVIDENCE" WOULD FALL APART UNDER THAT SCRUTINY. The NFL knew this, so they stretched to claim privilege for all of that material. From a legal standpoint, that was laughable and will almost certainly stand up under appeal.
Pietaster2
Footballguy
It is a little odd how the experts' fantasy discussion about Brady turned from "can push for top five fantasy QB if he starts all 16 games" before yesterday to "Brady is only going to finish as a low QB 1, but probably below that." I'm not singling out the footballguys, because it seems to be the case on other sites too.BlueDredSo said:
I thought I had a steal spending a 6th on him last week, but if fantasy experts are to be believed then I guess I paid market value. His abilities and supporting staff didn't decline the moment the verdict happened, so what gives? Now that the hype is gone and Brady is no longer a value gamble, his projected fantasy value for the season has gone down?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
A lot of experts are oblivious. In his last 16 games last year, Brady put up 4400/40. And that includes the game where he was benched in the second half against KCC and the meaningless last game against BUF when he didn't play much. Brady will be a value pick no matter where he was drafted this year.
