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Brandon Jacobs vs. Ahmad Bradshaw (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ffguru56
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TitansFan10
Footballguy
http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2010/05/11/g...-focus-in-2010/ - more carries for Bradshaw
To those who will qualify this study with a more negative outlook on Bradshaw’s numbers likely dropping with more involvement in the offense, more carries for a loss, more receptions broken up — fair enough. But I still challenge you to think optimistically about Bradshaw’s potential as a future all-in-one featured back for the Giants, and Jacobs being more of a compliment as the years go on.
read it its good
To those who will qualify this study with a more negative outlook on Bradshaw’s numbers likely dropping with more involvement in the offense, more carries for a loss, more receptions broken up — fair enough. But I still challenge you to think optimistically about Bradshaw’s potential as a future all-in-one featured back for the Giants, and Jacobs being more of a compliment as the years go on.
read it its good
frogpond11
Footballguy
Anybody heard anything about Bradshaw's nagging injury from last year?? I don't remember exactly what it was...maybe a foot injury? Or ankle? I never heard if he had surgery or not?? Anybody got anything on that?
Yes, he had surgery on both feet (screws in them both) and to clean up one ankle.Ahmad Bradshaw began running this week for the first time since undergoing surgeries to both feet and his right ankle.Bradshaw said he feels like he has a new ankle, but his feet are still store from the surgically implanted screws. Durability concerns will likely keep him in the same role again this season, as the lesser half of a committee attack with Brandon Jacobs.Source: Ralph Vacchiano on Twitter Apr. 15
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as a bradshaw owner i watched him play alot last year (due to injuries he was my starter for most the year) and even though he was injured (bone spurs and fractures) he well outperformed jacobs and that without practicing almost all season long not sure if stats will back this argument up but watching him live he opened things up for the offense and made several big plays. the only downfall i seen last year was his pass protection, if he stays healthy, and is able to practice with the team this year he will most definitly get more touches and his ff value will increase. IMO
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I vote neither of them are running the ball in 2012 in New York.
Neither one of them can stay healthy, there really is nothing invested in Bradshaw. They have worked on all other aspects of their offense, I imagine we will see an upgrade at some point soon.
I like Bradhsaw a lot and Siragusa last season was very blunt about why Bradshaw wasn't getting more carries meaning he felt strongly Bradshaw is the better back. I like Tony and I respect that guy's opinion since he is on ground zero in every game.
Bradshaw might be aprt of a 2 back system there beyond what I'm projecting but not with Jacobs. This duo is not as strong as it should be. And with the vast weapons now at WR, there should be clear lanes every game to charge thru. Make or break year for both of them.
Neither one of them can stay healthy, there really is nothing invested in Bradshaw. They have worked on all other aspects of their offense, I imagine we will see an upgrade at some point soon.
I like Bradhsaw a lot and Siragusa last season was very blunt about why Bradshaw wasn't getting more carries meaning he felt strongly Bradshaw is the better back. I like Tony and I respect that guy's opinion since he is on ground zero in every game.
Bradshaw might be aprt of a 2 back system there beyond what I'm projecting but not with Jacobs. This duo is not as strong as it should be. And with the vast weapons now at WR, there should be clear lanes every game to charge thru. Make or break year for both of them.
yeah that article linked above your post was all about Jacobs injury...umm hello, Bradshaw hurt too.Coughlin's system requires more than one RB, look at carries per quarter to see it more clearly. Actually it'd have to be carries per quarter when they had a healthy stable of RBs.
jwb
Footballguy
As MoP said, this is the make or break year.
I love the guy, and personally think his ceiling can approach MJD/Rice levels. But that's just what my eyes tell me in him running the ball on Sunday - I don't know about the other intangibles that keep him from getting the ball more (pass protection is likely one). If he doesn't break out this year, then he's essentially on the Leon Washington career path - a lot of "coulda / shoulda", but in the end, about half the fantasy points you think he could score.
I love the guy, and personally think his ceiling can approach MJD/Rice levels. But that's just what my eyes tell me in him running the ball on Sunday - I don't know about the other intangibles that keep him from getting the ball more (pass protection is likely one). If he doesn't break out this year, then he's essentially on the Leon Washington career path - a lot of "coulda / shoulda", but in the end, about half the fantasy points you think he could score.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
The offense moved so much better when Bradshaw played... especially when he was semi healthy. As the yr went on that injury must of certainly hinder him because his numbers dropped. I think Bradshaw will totally out-perform BJ as BJ gets turned into the COP / GL back.
ATC1
Footballguy
The problem with Bradshaw is his blocking. There were multiple times I seen Eli right in Bradshaw's face because he went to the wrong side or made a poor attempt at a block. That alone has me worried that he can not be a every down RB. Normally with someone like Bradshaw I would pick him up around his ADP and sell him after a couple of great weeks like last season. With the offseason surgery I'm not sure I will be doing the same thing this year.
Todem
Footballguy
You would think they would do that.Another very glaring thing that was evident was the goaline touches were all going to Bradshaw in the second half of the season.It was crystal clear who was the better back. Even with that, I think we see the same split this season. Jacobs had a bad year and I think he will improve his numbers by 10-15% this season. Jacobs is still a big boy and can truck. He may have been suffering from the "I just got my big contract" syndrome.
Don't discount Bradshaw running against a D that just spent X amount of time trying to tackle a 260-270lb beast of a man.
I'm not so sure if that minimizes Bradshaw's value but, Coughlin and Gilbride know that Bradshaw(and maybe any back with speed and shifty moves) can be far more successful if Jacobs "beats up" a D first, wearing them down N all.
During his career, Coughlin has clearly shown a desire to have a RB that can pound the ball. (Mostly with the Giants) he has also shown some preference toward big backs. Just 2 years ago Ward and Jacobs were like "big" and "bigger".
Those mentioning Tiki and Jacobs, don't forget it was Dayne and Tiki before that but under Fassel. Still Dayne got a zillion carries despite being extremely ineffective as a short yardage runner. Dayne's body type and style made countless people think he would be an effective short yardage runner. While a different staff and all, I do think there's many NFL coaches that over the years have had a big back with purpose. Fred Taylor was super hot one year with like 10? 12? 100 yard games. Otherwise, there's zero evidence to support the idea of Coughlin leaning on a smallish back as much as many here want him to.
Some friends and I have each seen the Gmen throw some screen passes to Jacobs who destroys a CB or S up the sideline in camp one summer or another. That rarely ever happens in the regular season. (Don't forget big Jacobs has speed) expression-You tell me what CB, one on one, is going to stop Jacobs. But there must be a reason Gilbride and Coughlin don't scheme to get that extremely favorable matchup. My guess is over the course of the game, during those instances where the play would be most effective, Bradshaw (or Ward or whomever) is in so they mean to get back to it and....it just never materializes.
He also has an offensive line that can maul opposing defenses play after play as the RB pounds the ball, as well as any in the NFL. Some Giants fans will remember the offensive line blocking philosophy changes they had to make post-Tiki. Those big guys will have to get out quick to get in front of Bradshaw as often as they need to. Lateral speed is not necessarily a quality every great road grader lineman has.
And don't forget the Giants LLLLLOVE Andre Brown. Brown's style is..well here
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2009/05...back_andre.html
Rambling.....I really don't think it's likely they abandon Jacobs or just as a goal-line back or any of their big backs for that matter.
I'm not so sure if that minimizes Bradshaw's value but, Coughlin and Gilbride know that Bradshaw(and maybe any back with speed and shifty moves) can be far more successful if Jacobs "beats up" a D first, wearing them down N all.
During his career, Coughlin has clearly shown a desire to have a RB that can pound the ball. (Mostly with the Giants) he has also shown some preference toward big backs. Just 2 years ago Ward and Jacobs were like "big" and "bigger".
Those mentioning Tiki and Jacobs, don't forget it was Dayne and Tiki before that but under Fassel. Still Dayne got a zillion carries despite being extremely ineffective as a short yardage runner. Dayne's body type and style made countless people think he would be an effective short yardage runner. While a different staff and all, I do think there's many NFL coaches that over the years have had a big back with purpose. Fred Taylor was super hot one year with like 10? 12? 100 yard games. Otherwise, there's zero evidence to support the idea of Coughlin leaning on a smallish back as much as many here want him to.
Some friends and I have each seen the Gmen throw some screen passes to Jacobs who destroys a CB or S up the sideline in camp one summer or another. That rarely ever happens in the regular season. (Don't forget big Jacobs has speed) expression-You tell me what CB, one on one, is going to stop Jacobs. But there must be a reason Gilbride and Coughlin don't scheme to get that extremely favorable matchup. My guess is over the course of the game, during those instances where the play would be most effective, Bradshaw (or Ward or whomever) is in so they mean to get back to it and....it just never materializes.
He also has an offensive line that can maul opposing defenses play after play as the RB pounds the ball, as well as any in the NFL. Some Giants fans will remember the offensive line blocking philosophy changes they had to make post-Tiki. Those big guys will have to get out quick to get in front of Bradshaw as often as they need to. Lateral speed is not necessarily a quality every great road grader lineman has.
And don't forget the Giants LLLLLOVE Andre Brown. Brown's style is..well here
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2009/05...back_andre.html
Rambling.....I really don't think it's likely they abandon Jacobs or just as a goal-line back or any of their big backs for that matter.
That article is a year old, prior to Brown tearing his Achilles. There's always a chance he comes in and gets some touches, although I can't think of any RB who has every come back from a torn Achilles and was productive.
I've heard about Jacobs wearing down defenses for years now, and I just don't buy it. Especially if you look at last season, he wasn't doing much "wearing down" at all. Lot's of tip-toeing, arm tackles, etc. I could see if Jacobs was in the game for the entire 1st 3 quarters, got 20+ touches and was barreling people over, then Bradshaw came in and got the scraps, but that's not what was happening at all. Bradshaw was a far superior runner last season. Maybe it was Jacobs' injury (although Bradshaw was playing hurt as well), but maybe it's just that he's the better RB?
I've heard about Jacobs wearing down defenses for years now, and I just don't buy it. Especially if you look at last season, he wasn't doing much "wearing down" at all. Lot's of tip-toeing, arm tackles, etc. I could see if Jacobs was in the game for the entire 1st 3 quarters, got 20+ touches and was barreling people over, then Bradshaw came in and got the scraps, but that's not what was happening at all. Bradshaw was a far superior runner last season. Maybe it was Jacobs' injury (although Bradshaw was playing hurt as well), but maybe it's just that he's the better RB?
az_prof
Footballguy
One key factor people forget about with these two: Age.People forget how YOUNG Bradshaw is because he has been in the league three years now; but he came into the league at a very young age. Bradshaw is only 24.Jacobs, however, turns 28 in July. That four year difference is significant for a back. I really don't see Jacobs being a factor at all beyond this year. No way is he a guy who is going to play into his 30s. Bradshaw still has four or five years left.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Avery
Footballguy
discount it if you like, but the head coach and offensive coordinator of the New York football Giants have pretty much said as much.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
people say all kinds of crazy things.discount it if you like, but the head coach and offensive coordinator of the New York football Giants have pretty much said as much.
Tau837
Footballguy
The numbers don't back this up.Bradshaw's 2009 splits:1st half: 87/441/6 rushing (5.1 ypc), 12/137/0 receiving (11.4 ypr)2nd half: 73/327/1 rushing (4.5 ypc), 9/70/0 receiving (7.8 ypr)If Bradshaw was taking advantage of a defense worn down by Jacobs, it would seem that his second half numbers would be better than his first half numbers, and it would also possibly be the case that he would have more second half touches than first half touches. Neither is the case. Bradshaw had quite a bit more touches in the first half and was much more effective, both rushing and receiving.In fact, in the first quarter, Bradshaw averaged 6.5 ypc and 12.5 ypr, when the opposing defense was freshest. His averages were higher in the first quarter than in any other quarter.IMO this whole wearing down the defense thing is either overblown or misstated. By overblown, I mean exactly how many tackles were made on Jacobs in the first half of his games last year? He had 141 touches, so that is the most it could have been (if he didn't run out of bounds or score TDs standing up). That is spread over 15 games, so it is less than 10 tackles per game. And there were probably quite a few tacklers involved in each game. So there were multiple defenders who had to tackle Jacobs a handful of times each, typically probably less than 5 times each, in the first half of Giants games. And that "wears down" today's NFL defensive players? It's hard for me to believe it has a non-trivial effect in the second half, unless a player is literally injured when tackling him (which could happen tackling any RB).More likely, I think it is misstating the effect of switching from Jacobs to Bradshaw. Jacobs and Bradshaw are used differently. The running plays, and thus the run blocking, are presumably different to a large degree. So the real effect is likely that the Giants are running and blocking a certain way for Jacobs, and then they switch to different plays with Bradshaw. Maybe the defense gets keyed in on the Jacobs running plays and run blocking early, and then is at least a bit slow to adjust when Bradshaw comes in.Just my amateur guess on that latter point... but the numbers definitely don't seem to show any "wearing down" effect that benefits Bradshaw.discount it if you like, but the head coach and offensive coordinator of the New York football Giants have pretty much said as much.
Tau837
Footballguy
Jacobs just signed his current contract last offseason. From Rotoworld:
It sounds from this like the guaranteed part of his contract will essentially be over after this season. And since the $7.85M in bonuses were both signing and roster bonuses, there probably wouldn't be much of a cap hit for cutting him after this season (if cap hits work the same with a new collective bargaining agreement).So the question is simply whether or not Jacobs rebounds and has a solid season this year. If so, I don't think $4.65M is prohibitive for them to keep him for 2011 and maybe beyond... and they could always renegotiate too.
Avery
Footballguy
Without getting into the specifics of how Jacobs was hurt or how he was misused last year, it's not so much an issue of whether or not a "wearing down" effect is working or not but its clear that Coughlin and Gilbride believe it to be so.The numbers don't back this up.Bradshaw's 2009 splits:1st half: 87/441/6 rushing (5.1 ypc), 12/137/0 receiving (11.4 ypr)2nd half: 73/327/1 rushing (4.5 ypc), 9/70/0 receiving (7.8 ypr)If Bradshaw was taking advantage of a defense worn down by Jacobs, it would seem that his second half numbers would be better than his first half numbers, and it would also possibly be the case that he would have more second half touches than first half touches. Neither is the case. Bradshaw had quite a bit more touches in the first half and was much more effective, both rushing and receiving.In fact, in the first quarter, Bradshaw averaged 6.5 ypc and 12.5 ypr, when the opposing defense was freshest. His averages were higher in the first quarter than in any other quarter.IMO this whole wearing down the defense thing is either overblown or misstated. By overblown, I mean exactly how many tackles were made on Jacobs in the first half of his games last year? He had 141 touches, so that is the most it could have been (if he didn't run out of bounds or score TDs standing up). That is spread over 15 games, so it is less than 10 tackles per game. And there were probably quite a few tacklers involved in each game. So there were multiple defenders who had to tackle Jacobs a handful of times each, typically probably less than 5 times each, in the first half of Giants games. And that "wears down" today's NFL defensive players? It's hard for me to believe it has a non-trivial effect in the second half, unless a player is literally injured when tackling him (which could happen tackling any RB).More likely, I think it is misstating the effect of switching from Jacobs to Bradshaw. Jacobs and Bradshaw are used differently. The running plays, and thus the run blocking, are presumably different to a large degree. So the real effect is likely that the Giants are running and blocking a certain way for Jacobs, and then they switch to different plays with Bradshaw. Maybe the defense gets keyed in on the Jacobs running plays and run blocking early, and then is at least a bit slow to adjust when Bradshaw comes in.Just my amateur guess on that latter point... but the numbers definitely don't seem to show any "wearing down" effect that benefits Bradshaw.discount it if you like, but the head coach and offensive coordinator of the New York football Giants have pretty much said as much.
az_prof
Footballguy
What a HC says to the media when asked a question like this is going to be as much for locker room consumption as any sort of statement of what they really believe. People expected Jacobs to be the lead back and he wasn't running like it; Bradshaw was. If you call out a player in the media though you are inviting a locker room controversy, even if you are simply stating a fact--in this case, that Bradshaw was playing like the lead back and not Jacobs. What happens over the course of the preseason camp battle, however, is very different. The Coaches aren't stupid; they can see the same numbers that were posted and it is obvious to anyone that looks into it that Jacobs didn't "loosen" up the defense for Bradshaw. Bradshaw simply played more aggressively and ran with greater authority and elusiveness.Avery said:Without getting into the specifics of how Jacobs was hurt or how he was misused last year, it's not so much an issue of whether or not a "wearing down" effect is working or not but its clear that Coughlin and Gilbride believe it to be so.Just Win Baby said:The numbers don't back this up.Bradshaw's 2009 splits:1st half: 87/441/6 rushing (5.1 ypc), 12/137/0 receiving (11.4 ypr)2nd half: 73/327/1 rushing (4.5 ypc), 9/70/0 receiving (7.8 ypr)If Bradshaw was taking advantage of a defense worn down by Jacobs, it would seem that his second half numbers would be better than his first half numbers, and it would also possibly be the case that he would have more second half touches than first half touches. Neither is the case. Bradshaw had quite a bit more touches in the first half and was much more effective, both rushing and receiving.In fact, in the first quarter, Bradshaw averaged 6.5 ypc and 12.5 ypr, when the opposing defense was freshest. His averages were higher in the first quarter than in any other quarter.IMO this whole wearing down the defense thing is either overblown or misstated. By overblown, I mean exactly how many tackles were made on Jacobs in the first half of his games last year? He had 141 touches, so that is the most it could have been (if he didn't run out of bounds or score TDs standing up). That is spread over 15 games, so it is less than 10 tackles per game. And there were probably quite a few tacklers involved in each game. So there were multiple defenders who had to tackle Jacobs a handful of times each, typically probably less than 5 times each, in the first half of Giants games. And that "wears down" today's NFL defensive players? It's hard for me to believe it has a non-trivial effect in the second half, unless a player is literally injured when tackling him (which could happen tackling any RB).More likely, I think it is misstating the effect of switching from Jacobs to Bradshaw. Jacobs and Bradshaw are used differently. The running plays, and thus the run blocking, are presumably different to a large degree. So the real effect is likely that the Giants are running and blocking a certain way for Jacobs, and then they switch to different plays with Bradshaw. Maybe the defense gets keyed in on the Jacobs running plays and run blocking early, and then is at least a bit slow to adjust when Bradshaw comes in.Just my amateur guess on that latter point... but the numbers definitely don't seem to show any "wearing down" effect that benefits Bradshaw.Avery said:discount it if you like, but the head coach and offensive coordinator of the New York football Giants have pretty much said as much.Kool-Aid Larry said:
mlball77
Footballguy
Jacobs didn't look very good at all to me last year, but he really did the previous couple of seasons. This blurb from Rotoworld helps shed some light:
Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride praised Brandon Jacobs (knee) for playing hurt all last season.
"The fact that he was able to gut it out with the knee all year long, and not saying anything and not using it as a crutch, I thought speaks volumes about the guy," said Gilbride. Jacobs is over three months removed from his knee scope, but the Giants aren't rushing him back into workouts. We're tentatively expecting a bounce-back season for the 27-year-old.
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride praised Brandon Jacobs (knee) for playing hurt all last season.
"The fact that he was able to gut it out with the knee all year long, and not saying anything and not using it as a crutch, I thought speaks volumes about the guy," said Gilbride. Jacobs is over three months removed from his knee scope, but the Giants aren't rushing him back into workouts. We're tentatively expecting a bounce-back season for the 27-year-old.
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
Here's the whole quote from Gilbride- he praises Bradshaw as well:
“Since we have had the two or three-man rotations we have needed two or three men. And sometimes even with that we have been a little bit short,” offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride said of the running back position. “So am I nervous about it? Yeah. Do I think they are working as hard as they can to get themselves physically ready? I do believe that.
“We see a guy like Ahmad and know how tough he is, coming back from both feet being operated on and an ankle being operated on. And he is so excited that for the first time in a long time he is not in pain. You can’t help but feel optimistic that he is going to be able to maybe last the whole season and give us some special performances. And then with Brandon, the fact that he was able to gut it out with the knee all year long, and not saying anything and not using it as a crutch, I thought speaks volumes about the guy.”
“Since we have had the two or three-man rotations we have needed two or three men. And sometimes even with that we have been a little bit short,” offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride said of the running back position. “So am I nervous about it? Yeah. Do I think they are working as hard as they can to get themselves physically ready? I do believe that.
“We see a guy like Ahmad and know how tough he is, coming back from both feet being operated on and an ankle being operated on. And he is so excited that for the first time in a long time he is not in pain. You can’t help but feel optimistic that he is going to be able to maybe last the whole season and give us some special performances. And then with Brandon, the fact that he was able to gut it out with the knee all year long, and not saying anything and not using it as a crutch, I thought speaks volumes about the guy.”
Boone22
Footballguy
You guys are missing the obvious...The Offensive line just wasn't as good last year as it was two years ago. As a result, the holes that Jacobs had two years ago that allowed him to get running downhill (and therefore breaking tackles) closed up too quickly last year for him to exploit them so he was caught many times last year running sideways looking for a hole and tippy-toeing behind the line. Bradshaw, who is quicker to the hole and has "better" feet was able to get small and hit those same holes BEFORE they closed up. As a result, he performed better, with a poorer performing offensive line. If the O-Line gets it together again this year, I think both backs will put up good numbers. If the O-line performs like last year, expect Bradshaw to outperform Jacobs with Jacobs putting up slightly better stats this year due to being healthy and not having to deal with the knee injury he had last year. The big question is how the Giants plan on using Brown and Ware this upcoming season and whether either one will eat into Jacob's or Bradshaw's touches.
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massraider
Footballguy
I think the obvious thing everyone is missing is the year long injury we never heard about.
Hey JWB. Injuries messed up plans last year.Myself and a few others did articles on this last summer. It's not just a 2008 NYG thing, Coughlin has done this for a good long while. There was also a year where Ward and Jacobs were each hurt for a spell and while one was out the other was getting 90? 100ish yards per game. People were clamoring for one or the other but in the end it was a rotation. I'm only mentioning that because it seems somewhat similar to where we're at now-in this thread.Without looking up again I'm not certain but, Natrone and James Stewart? Stewart and Fragile Freddy before he dominated. Stacey Mack mixed in here. Even with the Gmen without Coughlin it's not so dissimilar-Since Rodney Hampton, they have always had a couple backs or three in a rotation. When Tiki was awesome, Jacobs stole his TDs and Ward played 40? 3rd downs. Ron Dayne...thunder and lightningSorry for lack of details, working on something else. There's a definite history here, and I know you probably remember some of these guys too.Just Win Baby said:The numbers don't back this up.Bradshaw's 2009 splits:1st half: 87/441/6 rushing (5.1 ypc), 12/137/0 receiving (11.4 ypr)2nd half: 73/327/1 rushing (4.5 ypc), 9/70/0 receiving (7.8 ypr)Avery said:discount it if you like, but the head coach and offensive coordinator of the New York football Giants have pretty much said as much.Kool-Aid Larry said:
go to datadominator. That's exactly what happened in 2008.You already think Brown is done? or likely done? Wow that's an interesting extreme viewpoint.
You said "Don't discount Bradshaw running against a D that just spent X amount of time trying to tackle a 260-270lb beast of a man." That certainly wasn't happening last season, which is the one we're saying Bradshaw looked much better than Jacobs during. It may have happened in the past, and the coaches may want to do it in the future, but it can't really be an explanation for the difference in numbers between the two last season is all I'm saying.I didn't say I think Brown is done- you posted an article and said the Giants LLLLLOVE Andre Brown, I just pointed out that those comments were over a year old, prior to a MAJOR injury. Besides, what do you expect the coaches to say, we think our guy stinks? Anyway, I have no idea if he's done, or if he ever would've gotten started even if he wasn't injured, but I can't think of any RBs who have been successful after an Achilles tear, can you?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I thought your viewpoint was interesting re-Brown. This is a little confusing-1st sentence "I didn't say Brown was done" last sentence "can't think of any RBs who have been successful after an Achilles tear". The latter sort of implies that.The year old article is a fair point. I too want to see how he does in some sort of training mini camp type deal, but he's ineligible for minicamp so all there is is the past to go on with Brown.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "done". If you mean he'll never step onto an NFL football field again, no, that's not what I'm saying. If you mean he'll never be a dynamic NFL running back, I think the odds are that will be the case. I'm not a doctor, nor do I have any inside knowledge about Brown or his health, but I'm just going off of history. To my knowledge, it's never happened before, so the odds are he won't be the first to do it. I also take what the coaches say with a huge grain of salt, especially when they come during a rookie mini camp prior to the player tearing his Achilles tendon. Almost all comments made by coaches about their players are positive, I don't factor that in at all.I have no idea how things will shake out with the Giants RB situation this year- all I know is, Jacobs did not wear down defenses much for Bradshaw last year, Bradshaw was by far the superior runner both statistically and from the eye test, the odds aren't good for Brown becoming an impact player, and that article is a year old!
az_prof
Footballguy
Guys have come back from knee surgery to be very successful, but usually they have already proven that they are good. I think maybe one guy who got hurt as a rookie with a knee and did eventually become great is Robert Smith. Guys who are elite can come back (Jamal Lewis; Edgerin James; Ronnie Brown), but a guy who wasn't an elite pick and hasn't had elite production? Not too many fit that profile.
Avery
Footballguy
Considering the rapid advancement in orthopedic surgery and rehabilitation therapies, a lack of historical corollaries may be largely irrelevant.
az_prof
Footballguy
I forgot. That's even worse. Frankly, I would be very surprised if he comes back from that injury.
bonesman
Footballguy
Did the Giants cut Gartrell Johnson? I was looking at the FBG's 2010 Team Reports and he wasn't listed.
(also, are the Team Reports all chocked full of errors? I only read on the Indy WRs and Giants RBs but they both seemed to be pretty inaccurate.... if Gartrell is still a Giant anyway)
(also, are the Team Reports all chocked full of errors? I only read on the Indy WRs and Giants RBs but they both seemed to be pretty inaccurate.... if Gartrell is still a Giant anyway)
I don't see him on transactions and do see him in pre-draft articles. I believe he is still on the team. I believe he'd be the 5th RB on the depth chart. Taking a guess (and as such quite unsure) Dixon? from UConn was either at the Gmen or Jets minicamp and I heard him mentioned recently. There's so many "nobodies" at minicamp it's hard to tell who is somebody to pay attention to this time of year.
identikit
Footballguy
FWIW....
NYG Steve Smith said on an NFL.com webchat:
On which Giant he thinks will have a breakout season this year:
“Good question! I would say Ahmad Bradshaw, because I think the WRs will all progress, but Bradshaw is ready to take his game to another level. He had his ankles and feet worked on, and he has enough talent and enough ability to make some big plays for us.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yorkgiants/pos..._medium=twitter
NYG Steve Smith said on an NFL.com webchat:
On which Giant he thinks will have a breakout season this year:
“Good question! I would say Ahmad Bradshaw, because I think the WRs will all progress, but Bradshaw is ready to take his game to another level. He had his ankles and feet worked on, and he has enough talent and enough ability to make some big plays for us.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yorkgiants/pos..._medium=twitter
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
Bradshaw is one of my sleeper RBs to take in rounds 5-10 this year if his ADP remains this low. Thanks for sharing this. I'll add this to the piece I already wrote that will be out in a few weeks...
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