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Breaking: Robert Kraft arrested for soliciting prostitution (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bojang0301
- Start date
babydemon90
Footballguy
I mean, he's not being charged with the slavery bit, right?Leroy Hoard said:
This isn't really difficult.
using a massage parlor - meh.
Massage parlor trafficking in underage or slavery type conditions - horrible.
Using a massage parlor knowing that they did the above - horrible.
Using a massage parlor NOT knowing the above - back to meh.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
simey
Footballguy
People who visit these massage parlors that offer sexual services know that these parlors are illegal. Kraft visited this place twice for sexual services. He is an intelligent businessman, and he knows that money is going to someone. There is always a chance that that someone trafficked the girls.
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squistion
Footballguy
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 6m6 minutes ago
A new NFL statement on #Patriots owner Robert Kraft’s allegations of soliciting prostitution says the league is seeking “a full understanding of the facts” while not interfering with an ongoing investigation. Here it is in full:
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1100047778858848256 (statement at link).
A new NFL statement on #Patriots owner Robert Kraft’s allegations of soliciting prostitution says the league is seeking “a full understanding of the facts” while not interfering with an ongoing investigation. Here it is in full:
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1100047778858848256 (statement at link).
Whoa...pump the brakes a bit.
Until further details are actually known, lets not paint the guy as some scumbag knee deep in underage sex trafficking who is then forced to sell the best franchise in NFL history.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
And there is always a chance that they didn't. In this country, we go with the presumption of innocence until there is evidence to the contrary.
dhockster
Footballguy
So he went on January 19th and 20th of this year, on the 19th he had two woman "service" him and on the 20th just one, per the affidavit obtained by Pro Football Talk. January 20th was the night of the AFC championship game. Good day for Kraft: Got one rubbed out for him in the morning, watched his team qualify for the Super Bowl that night.
I also like that it said he was ID'ed by police when he was leaving on the 19th. I find it interesting that he still went back the next day.
I also like that it said he was ID'ed by police when he was leaving on the 19th. I find it interesting that he still went back the next day.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
simey
Footballguy
The possibility is still there. If a "john" goes to one of these parlors for sexual services, he has to be ok with the fact there is a possibility he is contributing to sex trafficking, unless he knows for sure the girls weren't trafficked.
babydemon90
Footballguy
sure. Not something I care about. Honestly the whole thing would be better if it weren't illegal. Legalize it, and you can make sure there are sanitary conditions, health inspections, regulations, everything on the up and up. Give it a big certification sign like the restaurants in LA and NY so customers know that the place is legit. Then if they go to a shady place, it's a lot more nefarious, and those places that want to traffic girls have a much harder time.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Do you know for sure that your clothes were made by someone being trafficked in slavery? How would Kraft "know for sure". Honestly I see these places all the time, they aren't uncommon. I've honestly never thought that maybe they're run by slaves - I assume that, while 'icky', its not a sex trafficking thing. Maybe I'm wrong - I have no idea.
Did you or any friends/family ever buy an iPhone? Everyone knows about the child slavery going on to make iPhones -- that's been reported for years.
Maybe the police should go after every iPhone customer for "contributing to child slavery"?
Elevencents
Footballguy
This. It’s real easy to make a statement of “Well you should always assume...” that reflects illegal or immoral ties to pretty much anything you do on a daily basis. Especially after the fact. Always assume that the meat you are eating in a restaurant is coming from abused animals? Always assume that the uber you are riding in was used to transport a pedophile a week prior? Exaggerated for effect if not readily apparent.
Csonka4life
Footballguy
It was undercover observation, it's not like they shook his hand as he left the rub and tug. It's no different than when they let drug dealers operate for another 6 months until the police department and the government feel they have a slam dunk case against the drug dealing gang.
I took that to mean that they spotted him and made a positive ID, not that they "carded" him and asked him to show his ID.
They did not force Richardson out. He pre-emptively agreed to sell the team before the league could impose any discipline. (The league did later fine him $2.75M for workplace misconduct.) And it wasn't for "racist remarks", it was for running an organization with a hostile work environment toward women and minorities. In other words, it was directly relevant to his role as owner of the team.
The NBA did force Donald Sterling to sell over racist remarks, which was kind of weird when you think about it, since he said them in a private conversation having no direct bearing on his role as owner. I guess the rationale would be that his words completely compromised his ability to run his franchise effectively (the players nearly boycotted a playoff game), and therefore the league needed to step in to maintain competitive balance. Also, his conversation with his girlfriend was the last straw after 30 years of clearly racist actions that were relevant to his job, including a discrimination lawsuit filed by Elgin Baylor. Finally, the fact that he was able to sell for $2B off an initial investment of like $30M seemed to dampen his enthusiasm for fighting it out in court. Still, if he had sued, he may well have won.
Anyway, unless it turns out that Kraft was somehow in on the trafficking stuff -- which I seriously doubt -- he's not going to be forced to sell the Pats. It wouldn't totally shock me, though, if he used the occasion to announce he was retiring and letting his son take over.
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dhockster
Footballguy
Not according to the affidavit per Pro Football Talk:
"A police officer stopped Kraft’s car as he left on January 19 and the officer asking Kraft, who was a passenger, for identification. Kraft produced a Massachusetts drivers license."
Link to article: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/25/robert-kraft-probable-cause-affidavit-released/
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
READ: Jupiter Police Document of the investigation. Details of what took place at Orchards Asia Day Spa on January 17, 2019.. EDIT actually the Police video cameras were installed on January 17 but this took place on January 20th at 10:59 AM to 11:13 AM. From the time Kraft walked into the establishment to the time he left. This Jupirter Police Department document describes exactly what took place.
A man wearing a dark long-sleeved shirt, blue baseball cap, and blue shorts who was identified as Robert Kraft entered, the spa, proceeded to the counter and gave the woman behind the counter money. Kraft was seen on video going a room where another camera showed that he removed his clothing and laid face-up on a massage table.
An Asian woman entered the room and 'hugged' his penis. She used her hands to 'manipulate' Kraft's penis and #### before moving her head down to his penis for several minutes before wiping off his genitals with a white towel. She helped him get dressed then Kraft gave her a $100 bill and at least one other bill of unknown denomination.
The surveillance showed the same man entering the passenger position of a car that was pulled over. The man in the passenger seat produced his license and was positively identified as Robert Kraft.
. Photograph of the official Jupiter Police Department document that describes this incident in detail. >>>>
Jupiter Police Department internal document for Robert Kraft's arrest
ADD: Kraft had previously been seen on video on January 19, one day before his arrest at the same establishment. This is only one document but he was positively identified >>>>> Jupiter ARREST NOTICE TO APPEAR ROBERT KRAFT and was caught on at least two internal cameras. This video comes out and he's DOA in the NFL IMHO.
A man wearing a dark long-sleeved shirt, blue baseball cap, and blue shorts who was identified as Robert Kraft entered, the spa, proceeded to the counter and gave the woman behind the counter money. Kraft was seen on video going a room where another camera showed that he removed his clothing and laid face-up on a massage table.
An Asian woman entered the room and 'hugged' his penis. She used her hands to 'manipulate' Kraft's penis and #### before moving her head down to his penis for several minutes before wiping off his genitals with a white towel. She helped him get dressed then Kraft gave her a $100 bill and at least one other bill of unknown denomination.
The surveillance showed the same man entering the passenger position of a car that was pulled over. The man in the passenger seat produced his license and was positively identified as Robert Kraft.
. Photograph of the official Jupiter Police Department document that describes this incident in detail. >>>>
Jupiter Police Department internal document for Robert Kraft's arrest
ADD: Kraft had previously been seen on video on January 19, one day before his arrest at the same establishment. This is only one document but he was positively identified >>>>> Jupiter ARREST NOTICE TO APPEAR ROBERT KRAFT and was caught on at least two internal cameras. This video comes out and he's DOA in the NFL IMHO.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
owning an iPhone isn't illegal in its ownright.
Also while they may serious underpay these kids for the work they perform and the conditions may not be great there's a huge difference - they are not being stolen from their homes, drugged up and kept against their will.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It's kind of funny that it would even be considered a punishment: You HAVE to sell something you paid $137MM for and take back $4B - we'll show you.
Csonka4life
Footballguy
Wow so what did Kraft think when he gave his ID to police? Unless the police stated that they were just in the neighborhood, any fool would know that it was some sort of surveillance operation. Maybe he thought he had friends that would squash the citation type offense.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
So if my understanding of things is right . . .
- Kraft can only be fined a max of $500K (which he'll be receiving)
- The team can't be docked any draft picks (not an on the field competitive advantage situation)
- Which means the only thing that really is to be determined is how long the league will suspend him for
By comparison, Irsay had 4 felony charges. Kraft is facing 2 misdemeanor charges. If nothing else comes down the road in terms of new charges or new revelations, I don't see the league trying to force Kraft out or making him sell the team (which logistically would be a challenge as it is owned by the Kraft Group and not just Robert Kraft).
If Kraft were smart, he would get the legal side of things taken care of ASAP. He should divert or plead no contest and move on. Not sure what good fighting the charges would do. The league will suspend him no matter what.
- Kraft can only be fined a max of $500K (which he'll be receiving)
- The team can't be docked any draft picks (not an on the field competitive advantage situation)
- Which means the only thing that really is to be determined is how long the league will suspend him for
By comparison, Irsay had 4 felony charges. Kraft is facing 2 misdemeanor charges. If nothing else comes down the road in terms of new charges or new revelations, I don't see the league trying to force Kraft out or making him sell the team (which logistically would be a challenge as it is owned by the Kraft Group and not just Robert Kraft).
If Kraft were smart, he would get the legal side of things taken care of ASAP. He should divert or plead no contest and move on. Not sure what good fighting the charges would do. The league will suspend him no matter what.
Right, although at least in Kraft's case he did a lot to increase that value (both with the Patriots specifically and the league in general). In Sterling's case, he completely mismanaged his team for 30 years, did lots of racist stuff, then got caught red-handed being racist and had to sell his franchise, which had increased more than 6000% in spite of his utter incompetence.
dhockster
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
dhockster
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
If the other owners put enuff pressure on him i think he steps away....when does the video come out?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I doubt the league will do much to him (nor should they really) - hopefully this will lead to the Networks showing that repugnant troll a little less celebrating in the booth during telecasts now. At least some good will come out of it then.
Dr. Octopus said:
You are cherry-picking the worst case scenarios of sex-trafficking and comparing them to the best-case scenarios of child slavery used by Apple suppliers. At least one of Apple suppliers did a lot worse than just underpay kids.
"The investigation found several children, including an eight-year-old named Dorsen, who worked 12-hour days carrying heavy sacks in sometimes heavy rain while supervisors threatened them with beatings."
http://fortune.com/2017/03/03/apple-cobalt-child-labor/
Btw, where's the proof that the hookers in that massage place were stolen from their homes, drugged up, and kept against their will?
"In the trafficking sting in Martin County, meanwhile, there were no individuals charged with human trafficking, only with prostitution. The owner of Orchids of Asia, Hua Zhang, was charged with deriving support from the proceeds of prostitution, soliciting another to commit prostitution, renting space to be used for prostitution, and maintaining a house of prostitution. The vast majority of the arrests in both counties were of men soliciting prostitutes. On CNN, Martin County Sheriff William Snyder said police are trying to figure out why women would “go and allow themselves to be trafficked.”
https://deadspin.com/what-was-really-going-on-at-orchids-of-asia-1832896112
I guess we can argue whether different examples of sex-trafficking or child slavery are worse, but that doesn't change the main point: the customer of a business should not be responsible for the business, if the business is breaking the law. That's on the people running the business.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/25/us/jupiter-florida-day-spa-living-conditions/index.html
It was clear to us that this was a trafficking case because of the circumstances I enumerated: They're not leaving, they're there 24 hours a day, the hygiene was minimal at best, just a bathroom,"
Not only did it appear women were living there, he said, but they were cooking on the back steps of the spa and sleeping on the very massage tables where the johns had done their deeds.
There were other worrying signs, Snyder said. The women didn't have access to transportation, they were moved from location to location and some were averaging as many as eight clients a day. They worked deep into the night with no days off, the sheriff said.
Refusing to call the women prostitutes, Snyder said the victimized women were coerced, lured to the United States with promises of work as housekeepers or waiters, only to have their passports snatched away once they arrived stateside.
So with all that "evidence", how many people there were actually charged with trafficking? ZERO.
https://deadspin.com/what-was-really-going-on-at-orchids-of-asia-1832896112
"Not a single person has been charged with human trafficking in connection with multiple sex-trafficking stings in towns and cities on the east coast of Florida, including Jupiter, Vero Beach, and Sebastian."
"While it has only been a few days since the arrests were announced and further charges are possible, the stings were months in the making, so law enforcement agencies simply may not have enough evidence for trafficking charges. Sex-worker-rights advocates say it is very common for police to overstate their findings in trafficking stings. “Our legislators and law enforcement have been led to believe that sex trafficking is huge in Florida, but studies have shown that because sex trafficking and sex work is being conflated all the time,” said Alex Andrews, a sex worker in the Orlando area and an advocate with the Sex Workers Outreach Project."
Edit: btw, the police contradicted themselves in just a few sentences in your CNN story:
"They're not leaving, they're there 24 hours a day" and then "they were moved from location to location". Things that make you go hmmmm.
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Haha, angry when someone proves you wrong?
FACT: No charges of trafficking, not even for the massage parlor owner. Please stop making things up.
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This entire story seems to be another example of news organizations trying to sensationalize/over-blow the facts to drum up website clicks.
"Kraft hired underage hookers!" FALSE. No underage girls involved.
"Kraft involved with sex trafficking!" FALSE. He was only charged with solicitation, being a customer of prostitution.
"But sex-trafficking!" FALSE. Massage parlor owner not charged with trafficking.
http://reason.com/blog/2019/02/22/robert-krafts-prostitution-arrest-is-par
So the story boils down to, Kraft hired a hooker for a rub and tug. After the police spent eight months on a sting operation to gather evidence.
Edit: correction, Kraft had 2 rubs and tugs. I guess that is 2x as bad.
"Kraft hired underage hookers!" FALSE. No underage girls involved.
"Kraft involved with sex trafficking!" FALSE. He was only charged with solicitation, being a customer of prostitution.
"But sex-trafficking!" FALSE. Massage parlor owner not charged with trafficking.
http://reason.com/blog/2019/02/22/robert-krafts-prostitution-arrest-is-par
So the story boils down to, Kraft hired a hooker for a rub and tug. After the police spent eight months on a sting operation to gather evidence.
Edit: correction, Kraft had 2 rubs and tugs. I guess that is 2x as bad.
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squistion
Footballguy
On a lighter note,
A Syracuse restaurant is slammed for a ‘Robert Kraft’ sandwich.
Ladies & gentlemen, may I present the "jerked & pulled".
https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/syracuse-restaurant-slammed-for-robert-kraft-sandwich-report
A Syracuse restaurant is slammed for a ‘Robert Kraft’ sandwich.
Ladies & gentlemen, may I present the "jerked & pulled".
https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/syracuse-restaurant-slammed-for-robert-kraft-sandwich-report
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
espn guy a pats fan?
Gandalf
Footballguy
Or could he actually be Robert Kraft?!?! Who else would be defending him right now???
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Well, I'm defending Kraft from the fake charges that Salty Haters want to pin on him above and beyond the actual solicitation he was charged with.
He was certainly stupid for using a hooker where prostitution was illegal. But all the sex-trafficking and underage hooker accusations are bogus.
http://reason.com/blog/2019/02/22/robert-krafts-prostitution-arrest-is-par
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Gandalf
Footballguy
I hope so. What a mess of a situation.
By the way, this place is in the middle of a strip mall in Jupiter a suburb of Palm Beach, 30 minutes away. My folks retired there. I’ve been to the movie theater in this plaza a hundred times. Never got a massage at Orchids though...
Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
No one has said he was involved in the sex trafficking - just that he was caught up in the investigation of it - which is still ongoing. No charges have been brought yet because that is a far more difficult case to prove than the simple misdemeanors Kraft is being charged with. In fact a couple of convictions in the customer cases will only help make the case against the owners.
And go back and reread the quote that you posted where you seem to think the police contradicted themselves. Hopefully you can figure out that it isn’t the “gotcha” moment you seem to think it is.
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I'm from upstate NY and that place is an institution. Really good food. I think the sandwich should've been covered in mayo though...
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
TripleThreat
Footballguy
he was driven in White Bentley on the 19th and a Blue Bentley one on the 20th... that there is some dark arts scooby doo spy stuff.
