Should be an interesting next few days as the AP writers go after each other. I'll personally give it a thumbs-down though.
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Brian Cushing (1 Viewer)
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massraider
Footballguy
Reading some of the Tweets from some of these journalists is comical. If they were as upset about Cush being a roid user as they claim to be, they'd stop following the sport.
Peter King, get real.
Peter King, get real.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I think quite a few still voted for him because either
a) They thought that since he was caught in September, that meant the steroids didn't affect him the whole season
or
b) That they shouldn't really be re-voting and that it set bad precedent.
Looks like Mortenson actually abstained from the vote largely based on #2.
Also interesting that quite a number of the NFL players that I follow on Twitter are pretty upset that Cushing won.
a) They thought that since he was caught in September, that meant the steroids didn't affect him the whole season
or
b) That they shouldn't really be re-voting and that it set bad precedent.
Looks like Mortenson actually abstained from the vote largely based on #2.
Also interesting that quite a number of the NFL players that I follow on Twitter are pretty upset that Cushing won.
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fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
And there goes any respect I previously had for the AP awards.
I guess even the AP writers are not as upset as everyone thinks. And why would you take away wins from a team? This is not the NCAA where they take away wins even though we all know the game was played and who won.
Whar a shock. An SC player on roids. Say it ain't so. What a joke.
Right. Because, of course, that message hadn't already been sent when Luis Castillo was drafted in the first round.
So why exactly do you think he was taking hCG then? The diet thing just doesn't seem to make any sense for someone who is supposed to be uber-careful about his body.But he said "PROOF". It isnt proof by any stretch.Is it an indicator? Yes. But it sure as hell aint proof.GroveDiesel said:
Please dont move the goalpost.
He's guilty of using hCG... and it is not an anabolic steroid.
And as far as "If that were true, then he would have tested positive more than once. Which we didn't"...
Umm, this is at least his second positive test in under a year in the NFL
massraider
Footballguy
When looking for proof he is taking steroids, it doesn't really matter what anyone speculates or thinks. They didn't invent the stuff to hide steroid use, so it must have other uses. Do I think he was using? heck yeah. Does anyone thinking it provide proof? Heck no.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
what's the window between using steroids and testing clean?
road warrior
Footballguy
Not this this is anything special..... but....
(Short story first)... I've been asking the immortal Peter King tons of football questions. Never a response. (Story over)
I Twittered him my displeasure of his stance on 'now' getting things right regarding Cushing. My point, why here, why now? You're barking up an already crooked tree.
I got a Direct Message from the King..... the response?
"I'm only 1 of 50, Dude"
Hey, it's nice to be responded to from one of the pro's, but it's nice to know that this mini-pro got his goat. Get off the podium and hit the grandstand... Dude.
(Short story first)... I've been asking the immortal Peter King tons of football questions. Never a response. (Story over)
I Twittered him my displeasure of his stance on 'now' getting things right regarding Cushing. My point, why here, why now? You're barking up an already crooked tree.
I got a Direct Message from the King..... the response?
"I'm only 1 of 50, Dude"
Hey, it's nice to be responded to from one of the pro's, but it's nice to know that this mini-pro got his goat. Get off the podium and hit the grandstand... Dude.
So if an adult male is caught taking a banned substance that is only plausibly taken by those coming off a roid cycle this doesn't have any implications to you?Do you think Manny Ramirez was using steroids? He was busted for hCG too.
CaptainHook
Footballguy
i think ull need to explain to me again how a person testing positive for a substance that would only be present if steroids were used is not proof ?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...hing/?related=1
An unnamed G.M. has shared a damning observation with Thomas George of AOL's FanHouse.com.
"We did our research on him before the draft last year and we concluded he was a chronic steroid user dating back to high school," the unnamed G.M. said. "More than a few people were surprised when he passed the steroid tests at the combine. I think the guy became a pro at masking it, until he was caught. I definitely would have taken my vote back on that [defensive rookie of the year] award if I had one."
There's more. A former USC teammate offered up an indictment of Cushing's offseason training methods in comments made to SI.com's Ross Tucker: "I don't know for sure that he takes anything," the player said, "but every time he goes back to New Jersey for a while over the summer and then comes back to Los Angeles he looks like a different person. It is unreal."
An unnamed G.M. has shared a damning observation with Thomas George of AOL's FanHouse.com.
"We did our research on him before the draft last year and we concluded he was a chronic steroid user dating back to high school," the unnamed G.M. said. "More than a few people were surprised when he passed the steroid tests at the combine. I think the guy became a pro at masking it, until he was caught. I definitely would have taken my vote back on that [defensive rookie of the year] award if I had one."
There's more. A former USC teammate offered up an indictment of Cushing's offseason training methods in comments made to SI.com's Ross Tucker: "I don't know for sure that he takes anything," the player said, "but every time he goes back to New Jersey for a while over the summer and then comes back to Los Angeles he looks like a different person. It is unreal."
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
A veterinarian was talking on the radio of the HCG drug. Say's it's used in the industry to treat nymphomaniac cows. Really.
The cows apparently have an ovary that gets stuck in it's tube, and it keeps them in perpetual heat. Some of this stuff is too funny.
The human use for it is explained as the effect of taking steroids shrinks your balls, so the HCG has something in it that pumps them back to looking normal again for a little while.
I can't get the image of Mad Cow disease outta my head now.
The cows apparently have an ovary that gets stuck in it's tube, and it keeps them in perpetual heat. Some of this stuff is too funny.
The human use for it is explained as the effect of taking steroids shrinks your balls, so the HCG has something in it that pumps them back to looking normal again for a little while.
I can't get the image of Mad Cow disease outta my head now.
GregR_2
Footballguy
I didn't have a particular problem with the AP revoking the award and voting again. So long as it is part of a change in policy that would be consistently applied in the future after it hadn't been done that way in the past.
Now that they've done it and the results didn't change, I wonder what they'll do the next time a similar situation happens? If the principles were that important to the AP to have voted over this time, they should continue with it in the future. But I have my doubts.
Now that they've done it and the results didn't change, I wonder what they'll do the next time a similar situation happens? If the principles were that important to the AP to have voted over this time, they should continue with it in the future. But I have my doubts.
spider321
Footballguy
Fixed.Your constant semantics are annoying btw Choke....but I'm sure you already knew that.
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Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
CHANGED FROM JAIRUS BYRD (2)
Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Brian Cushing)
lololololololol........when the pittsburgh guy finds out steroids were involved he switched over to cushing.
Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Brian Cushing)
lololololololol........when the pittsburgh guy finds out steroids were involved he switched over to cushing.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yeah...how do you defend that?
B-Deep
Footballguy
It really does not matter if it is a steroid. It is used to mask steroid use, and as such the NFL bans it, and testing positive for it is, in their eyes, the same as testing positive for roids
so if this guy was taking it as a dietary supplement knowing it'd be counted as roids when he tested positive, he's not real bright.
Know the rules and abide by them.
so if this guy was taking it as a dietary supplement knowing it'd be counted as roids when he tested positive, he's not real bright.
Know the rules and abide by them.
Hang 10
Footballguy
If Roids were good enough for the Steel Curtain...
GregR_2
Footballguy
He didn't think they should have done the re-vote and so voted for Cushing as a form of protest.
massraider
Footballguy
Good for him. The whole thing stinks of a witch hunt. He got caught, denied, and will serve his suspension. This happens every year, I think.
Why are people acting like this is the first guy to ever use PEDs? He won an award given by 50 sportswriters, that he received no bonus for. No big deal.
massraider
Footballguy
Yeah.I think people are picking and choosing which cheaters they are offended by/upset about.A witchhunt?massraider said:
massraider
Footballguy
Lordy. PFT is barely readable in the off season. :X
Ed Bouchette was on First Take, and gave a really great defense of his position. My favorite bit was when asked about the message it sends, for rewarding cheaters he said, "You mean like in 2007 when Bill Belichick won Coach of the Year after being caught cheating?"
Ed Bouchette was on First Take, and gave a really great defense of his position. My favorite bit was when asked about the message it sends, for rewarding cheaters he said, "You mean like in 2007 when Bill Belichick won Coach of the Year after being caught cheating?"
GregR_2
Footballguy
From my days as a blogger goon who had to cover the Jags website, I tended to enjoy Vic Ketchman's work. But the above is a really poorly done piece in my opinion, and I'm someone who had no qualms with the prospect of Cushing losing the award.The Cushing-Roethlisberger comparison is ludicrous. If you want to talk about it in terms of being charged with or proven guilty of crimes, neither has been charged nor proven guilty of a crime.
Both were suspended for violating the NFL's rules. And in both cases, both were proven guilty of violating those rules, Cushing through his drug test and Roethlisberger through the league's determination he breached the personal conduct rules. Poorly done piece by Ketchman. :whoosh:
Sammy Traveller
Footballguy
Amazing. This guy won the AP Defensive Rookie of the Year Award TWICE.A record that will never be broken.Congrats, Cushing.ang12 said:
LarryAllen'sJockstrap
Footballguy
On ESPN:
HOUSTON -- Houston Texans linebacker Brian Cushing says he neither injected nor took any banned substances even though he tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug.
Cushing was suspended for four games without pay last week for violating the NFL's drug policy. His appeal was denied.
Cushing confirms he tested positive for hCG, a fertility drug that is on the league's banned substance list. He says he has no idea how it turned up in a drug test.
Come on...
I personally don't have a big problem with him using whatever he was using; if anyone seriously believes that a good percentage of football players aren't on some PED, they're living in a fantasy world.
He got busted; he should serve his suspension and take any other repercussions that follow. But at least man up and either admit it or keep your mouth shut and don't say anything.
To lie after the fact is pathetic.
HOUSTON -- Houston Texans linebacker Brian Cushing says he neither injected nor took any banned substances even though he tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug.
Cushing was suspended for four games without pay last week for violating the NFL's drug policy. His appeal was denied.
Cushing confirms he tested positive for hCG, a fertility drug that is on the league's banned substance list. He says he has no idea how it turned up in a drug test.
Come on...
I personally don't have a big problem with him using whatever he was using; if anyone seriously believes that a good percentage of football players aren't on some PED, they're living in a fantasy world.
He got busted; he should serve his suspension and take any other repercussions that follow. But at least man up and either admit it or keep your mouth shut and don't say anything.
To lie after the fact is pathetic.
Sammy Traveller
Footballguy
I thought hCG was used in in-vitro fertilization to induce ovulation in women prior to egg retrieval.
LarryAllen'sJockstrap
Footballguy
Check out Wikipedia; it's got a good desription of why it is used in coonjuction with anabolic roids. Basically, once you cycle off the roids, it helps get your testosterone under control and back to normal levels.
Agreed. What's worse is Mark Schelerth going around on NFL Live saying hCG might be naturally occurring when the overwhelming majority of experts have explicitly denied this possibility. If there are sources for his assertion, I'd like to see them. Cushing's statement also sinks the arguments of those running around talking about how he took hCG for weight loss.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
I have to agree.MrTwo94 may have come off a bit abrasive, but I didn't catch any name-calling. I wouldn't have handled it the way he did, but I don't think he's ban-worthy.And I'll add that the claim that someone put on 15 pounds of muscle that fast naturally while doing all that cardio at the same time raised my eyebrows. I'm no expert by any stretch but I was going to toss out the BS flag myself, albeit more tactfully and with less confrontation.
I'm trying to remember how many excess calories alone it takes to add a pound of muscle. 4 pounds per week seems really high considering how much metabolically is involved with increasing muscle mass. Adding fat that fast isn't much of a problem, your body is designed remarkably well to add fat weight quickly.I think MrTwo94's point was that Benson may have put on 20 pounds, but 15 of it wasn't muscle as was claimed.No offense intended to Benson. Without accurate body fat measuring both before and during, it would be very easy to over-estimate how much of the weight gain was muscle...especially if you are making gains in terms of functional strength. The gains in strength tend to make you think the gains in weight are gains in muscle weight, but the two don't always track in a directly parallel manner. But I'm no expert.Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Per PFT:
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Really? When was the other time he tested positive?But he said "PROOF". It isnt proof by any stretch.Is it an indicator? Yes. But it sure as hell aint proof.
Please dont move the goalpost.
He's guilty of using hCG... and it is not an anabolic steroid.
And as far as "If that were true, then he would have tested positive more than once. Which we didn't"...
Umm, this is at least his second positive test in under a year in the NFL
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
he's afraid if an award gets retroactively removed because of steroids it might set a precedent..........sho nuff said:
GregR_2
Footballguy
A couple of different thoughts about the situation.
* I listened to the press conference on local sports radio and was nearly yelling at it for someone to ask him if he would agree to release his medical record subsequent to being notified about the HCG levels so the public could see if he sought the kind of tests that someone would who truly believed then it might mean they had a tumor. If he wanted to have any shot of convincing the public, I think we need to see the batteries of tests that I would get run on me if I was a millionaire and was told I had high HCG levels and I wasn't doping, which indicated a tumor.
* I notice a discrepancy between how the media is reacting to his behavior versus how they reacted to various baseball players who had accusations of steroids in the past. I recall baseball players getting criticized for not getting lie detectors that they didn't take anything. Cushing took and passed a lie detector that he didn't use any illegal PEDs. I recall criticism for the tone of player's reactions that lacked what you'd expect for someone unjustly accused.... something I think Cushing is showing to some degree, but lacking the anger you might expect so maybe not entirely a point in his favor. I recall criticism for how Roger Clemens demeanor and body language suggested someone who was hiding something. Something I didn't note in Cushing's voice nor see in the later snippets of it I've caught replayed on TV. (Note on that: His voice did break a bit with emotion when reading his initial statement, but he seemed very firm with his answers to the questions when I was listening for signs of doubt in his voice or of having to think of an answer.)
I'm not saying he didn't do it. If today I had to wager my house one way or the other I'd definitely bet he took HCG to conceal something. But if anything the sum of his actions at least resemble what I might expect from someone who was telling the truth. I still don't believe Cushing yet, but I think the media's reaction has been pretty hypocritical compared to past steroid cases in sports.
You know, the sad or even ironic thing is, if by some possibility Cushing actually is telling the truth, the only way he's going to be able to prove his innocence is if he actually has cancer. Ouch. I don't know if I can even find myself hoping he's telling the truth as the implications would be far worse than any steroid abuse.
* I listened to the press conference on local sports radio and was nearly yelling at it for someone to ask him if he would agree to release his medical record subsequent to being notified about the HCG levels so the public could see if he sought the kind of tests that someone would who truly believed then it might mean they had a tumor. If he wanted to have any shot of convincing the public, I think we need to see the batteries of tests that I would get run on me if I was a millionaire and was told I had high HCG levels and I wasn't doping, which indicated a tumor.
* I notice a discrepancy between how the media is reacting to his behavior versus how they reacted to various baseball players who had accusations of steroids in the past. I recall baseball players getting criticized for not getting lie detectors that they didn't take anything. Cushing took and passed a lie detector that he didn't use any illegal PEDs. I recall criticism for the tone of player's reactions that lacked what you'd expect for someone unjustly accused.... something I think Cushing is showing to some degree, but lacking the anger you might expect so maybe not entirely a point in his favor. I recall criticism for how Roger Clemens demeanor and body language suggested someone who was hiding something. Something I didn't note in Cushing's voice nor see in the later snippets of it I've caught replayed on TV. (Note on that: His voice did break a bit with emotion when reading his initial statement, but he seemed very firm with his answers to the questions when I was listening for signs of doubt in his voice or of having to think of an answer.)
I'm not saying he didn't do it. If today I had to wager my house one way or the other I'd definitely bet he took HCG to conceal something. But if anything the sum of his actions at least resemble what I might expect from someone who was telling the truth. I still don't believe Cushing yet, but I think the media's reaction has been pretty hypocritical compared to past steroid cases in sports.
You know, the sad or even ironic thing is, if by some possibility Cushing actually is telling the truth, the only way he's going to be able to prove his innocence is if he actually has cancer. Ouch. I don't know if I can even find myself hoping he's telling the truth as the implications would be far worse than any steroid abuse.
LarryAllen'sJockstrap
Footballguy
That was a really articulate and well thought out post.I'm a big fan of what Cushing does on the field; I thought it was a great pick by the Texans (with some risk), but the bottom line is the guy came into the league with questions surrounding steriod use. Sure, cancer or some other minimally likely situation "could" have resulted in his positive test (and I'll feel like a tool if that turns out to be the case), but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck...ETA - What I'm really trying to say is that I think it's a lot harder for the public (media included) to give a guy the benefit of the doubt when there is a laundry list (although non proven) of accusations and conjecture that the guy has been a habitual PED user.
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Have some sympathy, Cushing thought he had cancer....
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports...nt/7003559.html
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
how much hcg would be performance enhancing?
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Has any known journalist asked about his man-boobs? ... talk about "the emperor has no clothes."
I'm not sure they exist.
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