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Broncos RB. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
az_prof
Footballguy
Hahaha. Did you see that play? Tell me honestly: you think Moreno would have made that yard?
Teef
Footballguy
Ball got what was there. He didn't get anymore than was there IMO.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
N Zone
Footballguy
Moreno would have had a chance. Moreno is decisive, picks a hole, and breaks tackles. Ball hesitated and lost yards.
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Holy crap. Half the BAL D line was on the other side of the LoS and at the point of attack. Seriously. Get a clue.
az_prof
Footballguy
Bingo. It's hard to take someone seriously when they want to ball on Ball for that.
Saint
Footballguy
It looked to me like Moreno - 60%, Hillman - 40%. Ball - When the game was decided.
Personally, I thought Hillman looked the best out there tonight.
He had more burst and speed.Rushing:
Moreno: 9/28 (3.1 yds per carry)
Ball: 8/24 (3.0 yds per carry - although they had 9 in the box with him rushing in garbage time)
Hillman: 4/15 (3.75 yds per carry)
Receiving:
Moreno: 3/37 (12.3 yds per reception)
Hillman: 2/27 (13.5 yds per reception)
Ball: 0
Moreno by far the best pass blocker, and again, this team will win or lose on Manning's arm this year.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
it looked to me like Denver trusts Moreno the most and Ball the least. it also looked to me that Hillman has by far the most speed and the least strength so they'd like him on the field as a big play guy. they clearly see Ball as a potential guy who can get lots of carries so they wanted him to work on it with the game decided but he's not ready for a full role yet, Peyton had to yell at him several times. Hillman may have looked good but touched the ball 6 times, Moreno isn't going away. still a mess though if I had to take one right now I'd take Moreno but think Hillman might have the highest ceiling of all 3 as he has juice in his legs and can contribute in multiple areas.
of course with 49 points and what, 12 points to go around to RB's there might not be that much value here
of course with 49 points and what, 12 points to go around to RB's there might not be that much value here
Judge Smails
Footballguy
As a Moreno owner, if the Ball owner gets too down on him I might target him. Knowshon did exactly what he does. Didn't miss 1 assignment (to my untrained eye), was always in the right spot, made blocks, ran hard to get yards including a first down, caught balls out of the backfield, etc. He gets the job done but won't carry a team. Ball did look like the better runner to me, especially on that one play with the quick cutback. But he did almost screw up that handoff and they ran the ball when he was in there. Baltimore's front 7 is tough so he didn't make too much out of the garbage time. But against a weaker D, in a blowout, he could rack up some second half #'s.
The only thing I'm sure of is Hillman is NOT the back. Too small, strictly change of pace.
The only thing I'm sure of is Hillman is NOT the back. Too small, strictly change of pace.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
moreno's 3 YPC average earlier in game when there was more threat of pass not exactly ringing endorsement of his future value...
ball needs to iron some kinks out in pass protection... a lot of people, even ball owners, realized he wasn't a lock to play a significant role immediately...
The broncos will find themselves in some games at some point where they will want to run...
it will be to their advantage to get ball up to speed in case they need him more later... like if moreno is injured... hillman does look more like COP (he is most explosive of three)...
ball needs to iron some kinks out in pass protection... a lot of people, even ball owners, realized he wasn't a lock to play a significant role immediately...
The broncos will find themselves in some games at some point where they will want to run...
it will be to their advantage to get ball up to speed in case they need him more later... like if moreno is injured... hillman does look more like COP (he is most explosive of three)...
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I dunno. I thought Hillman looked the best, but they all had their moments. I also didn't see Hillman miss any blocking assignments, so He didn't exactly hurt his playing time. I could see him getting more opportunities before he gets less. Even so, this could stay a mess for a while.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I watched the entire game---and I personally felt like Hillman was underused. He showed me some burst in the passes that he caught. It just felt like he wasn't in there long enough to really establish a game rhythm. It really felt like Moreno had an advantage for the sole reason he was on the field more--but to me-- it really looked as though either Hillman or Ball could have performed the same--if not better--than Moreno had they been on the field as much.
ffldrew
Footballguy
Hillman could have been thrown to more...if they trusted him. So far so good on that front.
On passes Moreno looks like the second coming of Gerald Willhite...and that is not good
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
No worries here. I try to be respectful with any debate, that's not always the case in return. I understand why people were so upset over Hillman last year. This is my job, this is my life, this is my energy - I put everything into this game and I understand that I'm the tip of the spear in Broncos coverage. It's something I take extremely seriously and I don't want to be wrong but I also understand that sometimes I will be, I want to bring the best information forward from my first hand observations, the players, coaches, scouts I talk to. I'm harder on myself than anyone else and will continue to work diligently to bring the best insight and first hand knowledge, not only for the Broncos but the entire league and in NFL draft coverage as well.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
You have come a long way since 10 years or however long it has been since the audible started? I think everyone has. Just trying to catch up myself after taking a break from tracking anything but the Vikings for awhile. I have learned a ton over the past year.
Anyhow. I will try to not speak out of anger, and talk a bit less mess.
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bonesman
Footballguy
Ball... and soon afterward Peyton threw the 70+er to DT for his 12th touchdown... then showing him on the sideline you'd think he'd just thrown a pick six he looked so furious. Montee tried to ask him something and Manning just barked at him and sort of half turned away like he was too disgusted to even look at him. Definitely a "Damn it Donald!" moment.One said:
massraider
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Very confusing comments in here. One poster mentioned that Moreno "showed some power" and another said that he "broke tackles." I saw little if any evidence of either of those statements. Further, Moreno looks slower than most defensive tackles - how is that a recipe for success? As long as he is the starter, he has some value.....but how confident is anyone if Moreno is anything but a low-end RB3?
Hillman looks to be the quickest and most explosive, but it's hard to envision him getting 15-20 touches a game. More like 10 per game, a la Darren Sproles. He could still have value as a Flex player or bye week starter.
Ball got his ### chewed out last night. Manning doesn't appear to have confidence in him.....for good reason. This guy ain't seeing the field much until he can execute his assignments and protect Manning.
What is the shark play here?
Hillman looks to be the quickest and most explosive, but it's hard to envision him getting 15-20 touches a game. More like 10 per game, a la Darren Sproles. He could still have value as a Flex player or bye week starter.
Ball got his ### chewed out last night. Manning doesn't appear to have confidence in him.....for good reason. This guy ain't seeing the field much until he can execute his assignments and protect Manning.
What is the shark play here?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
C.J. Anderson owners, fans, friends and family should be very happy with with what they saw last night.
The one thing we know is that the Broncos would really really really prefer not to start Moreno. But even with Ball and Hillman on the roster that's what they had to do. And none of the three remotely looked the part of a starter.
Anderson hasn't proved anything yet, but considering that McGahee looked like an all-pro running in that offense last year the door isn't just wide open -- it's been blown completely off its hinges. He's going to get a shot.
The one thing we know is that the Broncos would really really really prefer not to start Moreno. But even with Ball and Hillman on the roster that's what they had to do. And none of the three remotely looked the part of a starter.
Anderson hasn't proved anything yet, but considering that McGahee looked like an all-pro running in that offense last year the door isn't just wide open -- it's been blown completely off its hinges. He's going to get a shot.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
I didnt see him break any tackles. He def looks slow but he got what was given to him. Hillman looked quicker. Ball I had one juke on the carry that I saw.
Its a mess that has classic John Fox written all over it. Stay away and let others figure this out
Shutout
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
From what I said in post #10, I think it is as it was said but with a small change.
Although I think things fell as expected, I do think Ball's time will come; he is just not there yet. Hillman, to me (and go ahead, blast away) is never going to be featured in this offense.
From last night's game, I observed Moreno picking us some great blocks on at least two of the Manning Tds that went straight down the middle and from Colts experience, that is immeasureable because Manning loves to check that opening window and if its not there, loves to step UP, into the pocket and do that quickscan to the other side. You MUST be able to give him that secure feeling of a pocket to pull that off and Moreno excelled at it last night.
With that being said, Moreno must show more in the actual running game. The passing game, to me, was fine. He looked good. But he simply has to do more running. I think I noticed one play where he hit the hole, picked his spot, and then did NOT go down easily. That is the opportunity for Ball but I don't think he is close to being able to protect like Moreno was last night. That was a great job on Moreno's part.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Moreno is what he is, don't expect him to show more than that. He's got zero explosion thru the hole, and very pedestrian running in space. Takes what the defense gives and when contacted goes down quickly. You can see the explosion of Hillman in direct contrast, and if there is going to be a feature back that could carry the Broncos running game, it's going to be Hillman. But he looks tiny in those little shoulder pads and looks like a stiff wind could knock him over. Ball looked tough and ran low with a good head of steam. But doesn't have Hillman's hops. I know it's too early to classify Ball as a goal line back, but that's all he looks like to me.
Moreno because of the pass protection is in line for the starters minutes and that gives him the best opportunity for the safe fantasy points. Till that changes, I'd roll with Moreno as a flex because he seems to have a solid floor. Hillman and Ball need to show me something before I'd risk starting them.
Moreno because of the pass protection is in line for the starters minutes and that gives him the best opportunity for the safe fantasy points. Till that changes, I'd roll with Moreno as a flex because he seems to have a solid floor. Hillman and Ball need to show me something before I'd risk starting them.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
You know what else he hasn't demonstrated? That he sucks.
A 31 year old journeyman named Willis McGahee was a beast for the Broncos last year, and if anything the offense is better now. Any half-decent back would be killing it. Outside of Hillman as a receiver none of those guys even look competent.
Moreno looked solid last night especially considering he did not have much of a preseason to prepare.
Just like last season he seemed to get stronger as the game went on ...compiling 39 yards on his last 4 touches.
On his final carry 2nd & 15 he pounded it it up the middle for 7 yards carrying a pile of Ravens for the last 3 or 4 yards.
On a previous drive he ran 3 consecutive plays that typify Moreno's solid (Not Spectacular) play
1st & 10 - 2 hard fought yards
2nd & 8 - 6 yard catch over the middle where he was hit immediately as he turned up field
3rd & 2 - Pounded the ball for a hard fought 1st down
Just like last season he seemed to get stronger as the game went on ...compiling 39 yards on his last 4 touches.
On his final carry 2nd & 15 he pounded it it up the middle for 7 yards carrying a pile of Ravens for the last 3 or 4 yards.
On a previous drive he ran 3 consecutive plays that typify Moreno's solid (Not Spectacular) play
1st & 10 - 2 hard fought yards
2nd & 8 - 6 yard catch over the middle where he was hit immediately as he turned up field
3rd & 2 - Pounded the ball for a hard fought 1st down
CowboysHomer
Footballguy
Not sure why folks are looking for the shark move here.
Denver is going to go as far as Peyton throws them this year. And that means a premium on pass pro. It's going to be Moreno's job.
Hillman will be change of pace / breather for Moreno guy.
Ball will get burn when they need to run clock late.
Accept the fact Moreno will get about 70-80 yards each week, and a TD here or there. That's about all there is here.
Denver is going to go as far as Peyton throws them this year. And that means a premium on pass pro. It's going to be Moreno's job.
Hillman will be change of pace / breather for Moreno guy.
Ball will get burn when they need to run clock late.
Accept the fact Moreno will get about 70-80 yards each week, and a TD here or there. That's about all there is here.
Resident A
Footballguy
Moreno looked VERY ordinary out there last night. Sure, he didn't miss any assignments, but left me really unimpressed when he got the ball. The Broncos are basically 1-dimensional with Moreno.
Hillman looked electric with the ball in his hands and clearly adds a dimension that's missing when the other backs are in. I'm not sure if he's big enough to be a 20-touch RB, but he's the most talented for sure. As good as Denver looked, they could be better with a threat at RB.
I don't think we saw enough of Ball to make a good call. I'd like to see him in non short yardage situations.
Hillman looked electric with the ball in his hands and clearly adds a dimension that's missing when the other backs are in. I'm not sure if he's big enough to be a 20-touch RB, but he's the most talented for sure. As good as Denver looked, they could be better with a threat at RB.
I don't think we saw enough of Ball to make a good call. I'd like to see him in non short yardage situations.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
We are still talking about how Moreno plays? He looked like he always does. I didn't see much daylight in the run game for any of these guys. Consider the fact that last season the Broncos ran for 289 yards in 2 games vs the Ravens. They were ready to stop the run and the floodgates opend in the 2nd half in the pass game.
Ball should have beaten that guy outside or something for a TD near the goal line. You see most RBs walk into the endzone there.
Ball should have beaten that guy outside or something for a TD near the goal line. You see most RBs walk into the endzone there.
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mphtrilogy
Footballguy
I thnk its Moreno until further notice.... would look to roster him, I had him last year and he was solid in the 2nd half.
They are not gonna mess around with P Manning back there, he offers the best ball security and pass blocking.
I don't think they care to omuch right now about running it up the gut, maybe they work in ball in the 2nd half a bit more as he learns the pro game. But I think hes more of a long term solution.
Short term, give me moreno.
I just need to decide if I want to drop C Ivory for him...
They are not gonna mess around with P Manning back there, he offers the best ball security and pass blocking.
I don't think they care to omuch right now about running it up the gut, maybe they work in ball in the 2nd half a bit more as he learns the pro game. But I think hes more of a long term solution.
Short term, give me moreno.
I just need to decide if I want to drop C Ivory for him...
Wow...after reading this thread it's clear to me that some people have some serious blinders on and are way too biased to see what's going in here. Here is how I saw it (although I own hillman in dynasty, I am not counting on him for 2013 production and have no biases):
1) john fox is the coach so I am not at all surprised that Moreno the dependable veteran got the start. Moreno isn't going to go away this season with fox as the HC (barring injury)
2) Peyton manning is the qb, the focal pt of the offense and the team. A legend. A guy that can bring Denver to the promised land this year and maybe next year too. And he is old. And coming off of crazy neck surgery. Broncos brass is interested in one thing only when it comes to their RBS: keep Peyton manning safe. No blind side hits. Only put RBS on the field that are sound in their pass pro. Period. With that in mind, it's easy to see why this game played out the way that it did. Until hillman and ball show that they are as good as Moreno in pass pro their usage will be limited.
3) Peyton manning has something to prove and he is chasing records. He wants to go down as the best qb to have ever played the game. And he is basically the coach of the offense regardless of who the OC is. Denver is a pass first pass often team now which will limit the stats of their RBS.
4) Denver's O line proved effective for protecting manning but not necessarily for their run blocking. I didn't see many run plays where there were gaping holes for ANY of the backs to slip through.
5) Moreno did not look dynamic but he certainly didn't look bad. He got tough yards, he caught the ball well, and he certainly was best at pass pro. The broncos could win a SB with just Moreno and lance ball backing him up providing he stayed healthy.
6) hillman was the most explosive looking runner last night. I thought he did a pretty good job when his number was called.
7) ball did not look very good and its not totally his fault. He could not eek out the tough yards when he was needed to do so which does not inspire a lot if confidence in him as a power runner. In his defense he is a rookie and that we his first game ever.
But what noone is talking about is how eerily similar ball's situation seems to be to mark ingram's situation. BC of ingram's supposed deficiencies in the passing game, the saints plug him into the lineup ONLY on obvious running plays. When the defense sees Ingram come into the game they know its a run play. The saints completely tip their hands and Ingram suffers as a result BC the defenses are all over him, many times hitting him in the backfield before he can even get a head if steam. It's ######ed actually and it's sad that nfl level play callers don't see this glaring problem.
Montee ball was in the same exact situation last night that Ingram has been in for his entire career. Welcome to the club montee!
You don't think that opposing defenses know that, for the broncos, keeping manning upright is the number one concern? Thus, they know with certainly that when ball goes in their it's to run the ball BC the broncos are not ready to trust him in pass pro.
Stack the box, good luck, rook. Welcome to the nfl.
Now, the broncos stick ball into the game to be the grinding back that helps them run out the clock. For ANY Rb in that situation, those are tough yards to come by BC the defense knows that the run is coming. But great RBS get those tough yards anyway. Ball did not look good as that back. The o line did not do him any favors either.
Ball is not going to be the best rookie Rb in 2013. Not even close. He will spend this season learning pass pro on the sidelines and grinding out tough yards on obvious pass plays with defenses stacking the box. He should become Penelas with mark Ingram for emotional support on this.
1) john fox is the coach so I am not at all surprised that Moreno the dependable veteran got the start. Moreno isn't going to go away this season with fox as the HC (barring injury)
2) Peyton manning is the qb, the focal pt of the offense and the team. A legend. A guy that can bring Denver to the promised land this year and maybe next year too. And he is old. And coming off of crazy neck surgery. Broncos brass is interested in one thing only when it comes to their RBS: keep Peyton manning safe. No blind side hits. Only put RBS on the field that are sound in their pass pro. Period. With that in mind, it's easy to see why this game played out the way that it did. Until hillman and ball show that they are as good as Moreno in pass pro their usage will be limited.
3) Peyton manning has something to prove and he is chasing records. He wants to go down as the best qb to have ever played the game. And he is basically the coach of the offense regardless of who the OC is. Denver is a pass first pass often team now which will limit the stats of their RBS.
4) Denver's O line proved effective for protecting manning but not necessarily for their run blocking. I didn't see many run plays where there were gaping holes for ANY of the backs to slip through.
5) Moreno did not look dynamic but he certainly didn't look bad. He got tough yards, he caught the ball well, and he certainly was best at pass pro. The broncos could win a SB with just Moreno and lance ball backing him up providing he stayed healthy.
6) hillman was the most explosive looking runner last night. I thought he did a pretty good job when his number was called.
7) ball did not look very good and its not totally his fault. He could not eek out the tough yards when he was needed to do so which does not inspire a lot if confidence in him as a power runner. In his defense he is a rookie and that we his first game ever.
But what noone is talking about is how eerily similar ball's situation seems to be to mark ingram's situation. BC of ingram's supposed deficiencies in the passing game, the saints plug him into the lineup ONLY on obvious running plays. When the defense sees Ingram come into the game they know its a run play. The saints completely tip their hands and Ingram suffers as a result BC the defenses are all over him, many times hitting him in the backfield before he can even get a head if steam. It's ######ed actually and it's sad that nfl level play callers don't see this glaring problem.
Montee ball was in the same exact situation last night that Ingram has been in for his entire career. Welcome to the club montee!
You don't think that opposing defenses know that, for the broncos, keeping manning upright is the number one concern? Thus, they know with certainly that when ball goes in their it's to run the ball BC the broncos are not ready to trust him in pass pro.
Stack the box, good luck, rook. Welcome to the nfl.
Now, the broncos stick ball into the game to be the grinding back that helps them run out the clock. For ANY Rb in that situation, those are tough yards to come by BC the defense knows that the run is coming. But great RBS get those tough yards anyway. Ball did not look good as that back. The o line did not do him any favors either.
Ball is not going to be the best rookie Rb in 2013. Not even close. He will spend this season learning pass pro on the sidelines and grinding out tough yards on obvious pass plays with defenses stacking the box. He should become Penelas with mark Ingram for emotional support on this.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Ive got all 3...thinking its Moreno like this for about half the year...and if Ball can earn the trust it starts transitioning to him later.
Hillman seems just like you say...the COP guy.
First part of the season just not sure anyone has a lot of value barring a big run. They will run only enough to keep the D honest and throw it all over the place with those weapons.
But if they keep being up big like this...Ball will get some garbage time looks like last night.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I think the Ball-Ingram comparison is fair, but not necessarily a precursor of things to come. Ball could develop his pass pro game in practice enough that the coaches begin to trust him enough to bite into Moreno's role. And New Orleans plays in dome in nice weather. Denver plays in the snow and cold. Eventually the Broncos will have to rely on the goal line carries as the weather will have some kind of role in Ball's development. They are going to need him later, unlike Ingram who got shelved as a luxury item.
Of course I agree. If ball can prove that he is improving in pass pro he will perhaps get more chances to get in the field. But given who his head coach is I don't believe he will be able to do enough to prove that in 2013. This year we might see flashes for ball but not a great fantasy year. perhaps towards the very end of the season he will be more of a factor. 2014 is a different story.
Consider this year ball's audition for john fox and Peyton manning's trust in 2014.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
The Denver running game should have a lot of potential---just based on the high probability that they will be playing with a lead the majority of the time. However-- last night did show me that Peyton Manning is good enough to win a game if he has time to throw the ball---even at the cost of abandoning the running game--which is essentially what happened. I honestly don't remember if I've seen a game where a team scores 49 points--has like 500+yards of offense---and sooo little was attributed to the rushing game--which is very concerning. I think that a lot of people have posted in here that Moreno is probably the guy to own as he is the best "Manning" protector--and if this is indeed the case--I think Denver has no choice but to use him. However, from what I saw last night--I really felt as though Hillman looked like the best "running back"--which sucks because I own ball in 2 leagues. Luckily I only drafted him in the seventh rounds of both of my drafts.
socrates
Footballguy
I think none of the backs did anything either to distinguish himself or to hurt his cause. They all played pretty much safe, but unspectacular.
Moreno was merely competent last night. Nothing stood out to me. He didn't get Manning killed, he didn't break off any decent runs, but he played well enough, and he seemed to be the preferred back to be in there.
Ball was in when the Broncos needed to eat up some clock or in short yardage situations, as we suspected, and while he was nothing more than ordinary, he did nothing to hurt his cause either.
Hillman didn't fumble, and he did look like the most explosive of the three, but his role was the smallest, it seemed.
I think Moreno is what is he is; you are not going to get anything amazing, but he is serviceable. Ball does not appear to me to be running confident yet. The game will slow down for him, and he should be fine in that regard. Provided Ball does not fall short in pass protection, it is hard to imagine him losing his role to either Moreno or Hillman. The real question to me is whether he can carve out a larger role. Hillman is the wild card, IMO. Hillman has that take-it-to-the-house kind of speed and mentality, and if he rips off some long runs, it would be hard for the coaches not to put him out there more. I could just as easily, however, see Hillman put the ball on the ground and find himself as a spectator.
Moreno was merely competent last night. Nothing stood out to me. He didn't get Manning killed, he didn't break off any decent runs, but he played well enough, and he seemed to be the preferred back to be in there.
Ball was in when the Broncos needed to eat up some clock or in short yardage situations, as we suspected, and while he was nothing more than ordinary, he did nothing to hurt his cause either.
Hillman didn't fumble, and he did look like the most explosive of the three, but his role was the smallest, it seemed.
I think Moreno is what is he is; you are not going to get anything amazing, but he is serviceable. Ball does not appear to me to be running confident yet. The game will slow down for him, and he should be fine in that regard. Provided Ball does not fall short in pass protection, it is hard to imagine him losing his role to either Moreno or Hillman. The real question to me is whether he can carve out a larger role. Hillman is the wild card, IMO. Hillman has that take-it-to-the-house kind of speed and mentality, and if he rips off some long runs, it would be hard for the coaches not to put him out there more. I could just as easily, however, see Hillman put the ball on the ground and find himself as a spectator.
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
I dont think this Offense needs a spectacular RB, thats when PM retires. Ball might be a long term project or at least a 2nd half project. Hillman is a 3rd down back guy again or when they are down and they need some big plays from the rb.
RIght now, Moreno offers max prtect a trusted RB who can hold onto the ball knows his formations and PM and Fox like.
He will be on the field on all critical situations, imho.
RIght now, Moreno offers max prtect a trusted RB who can hold onto the ball knows his formations and PM and Fox like.
He will be on the field on all critical situations, imho.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Ummm... I mentioned Ball-Ingram. Balls touches(that sounds gay) are still annoying if you trust Moreno in your lineup next game.
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