Broncos RB. (2 Viewers)

[ShaHBucks]

I don't think he looked any different. His TD run vs Pitt was nice early in the season.

you don't think he looked different after he was reinserted to the starting lineup? I think every Bronco fan would disagree with that. He had a propensity for not finishing runs, for tripping over his own feet, for being way to impatient and running into the back of his OL right before a hole would open, for taking himself out of the game after an 8-yard run. Once he came back, just about all that was taken care of. His vision and his patience was matured and he looked like a completely different RB.I think he'll have a large role to begin the season and I've already stated he's a prime 3rd-down RB. He hasn't showed that he can stay healthy, he's not an explosive playmaker, and the Broncos still struggled in short yardage with Moreno last year. Ball will likely be the hammer at the GL and his TD last night was vintage Monte Ball. Hillman will likely be a COP RB and Moreno will shuffle in and out of the lineup I'm sure. At this point, he's the best bang for your buck pick out of the 3. But he's not going to be a bellcow.

Man he was still tripping over himself. He is definitly everything you just stated but he has been productive. Why even argue with production? That's like demoting your top salesman for not making enough cold calls. He really isn't the guy with the flaws.As far as being a bellcow goes, check his numbers when he's gotten 15+ touches rushing/recieving. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoreKn00/gamelog/ That's 97ypg, 4ypc, .56 TDs, 2 rec per-game. That's a stout 13 FF ppg (15.9 ppr) - top 12 RB production. The situation is not as crowded as you think if Ball continues to underwhelm and Hillman continues to prove he just a COP back. A superbowl is on the line.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

And let's not forget that the Broncos protection of Manning in the playoff loss to the Ravens wasn't nearly as good once Moreno left the game hurt. We can talk all we want about YPCs and all that jazz, but a RB who can protect Manning as well as Moreno can on pass plays is gonna get plenty of playing time. John Fox is not that stupid.

Excellent point. I think Ball is going to get there but Denver is not going to take chances early in the season. I believe Ball will get 12-15 carries a game, when he is in there they will run the ball and if he can break some long runs off then he will get more opps. As Ball progresses he naturally will make it easier for Denver to have him as the lead back. Moreno will settle in as 3rd down/2Minute drill/passing from behind situations as needed. Hillman will be the COP back for Ball on drives. So yes this is a mix but I think by the time we get to week 4 or 5 the roles will be defined a lot better than this moment. I also believe Denver will come out of the gate slow and then take off as they did last season.

 

[Buffaloes]

You don't have to look at any numbers to see that *barring injury* Denver is not going to use Moreno as a bellcow. There's no need for it to begin with and they have invested heavily in the position 2 years in a row now. Aside from the Hillman fumble yesterday, all 3 RBs looked fine and showed that they each add a diff dimension to the offence.

Ball did anything but underwhelm yesterday. He looked fantastic at the GL, was pretty shifty in the open field, and had some very good carries out of the zone. It's RBBC and as of now, Moreno is the best bargain.

 

[bostonfred]

And let's not forget that the Broncos protection of Manning in the playoff loss to the Ravens wasn't nearly as good once Moreno left the game hurt. We can talk all we want about YPCs and all that jazz, but a RB who can protect Manning as well as Moreno can on pass plays is gonna get plenty of playing time. John Fox is not that stupid.

Excellent point. I think Ball is going to get there but Denver is not going to take chances early in the season. I believe Ball will get 12-15 carries a game, when he is in there they will run the ball and if he can break some long runs off then he will get more opps. As Ball progresses he naturally will make it easier for Denver to have him as the lead back. Moreno will settle in as 3rd down/2Minute drill/passing from behind situations as needed. Hillman will be the COP back for Ball on drives. So yes this is a mix but I think by the time we get to week 4 or 5 the roles will be defined a lot better than this moment. I also believe Denver will come out of the gate slow and then take off as they did last season.

I agree with most of this, but the broncos don't expect or need ball to break a long run. That's not his role. He's there to get consistent yardage on early downs. He's there to take advantage when manning audibles. He's there to score touchdowns. He's there to catch passes, and to pass block. They've even toyed with him in a third down back role. He looks pretty good at a lot of these things right now, but not consistent enough at any of them yet. That will hold him back until/unless he improves. But double digit carries and a couple pass targets still seems pretty reasonable, especially with the number of plays denver looks likely to run this yea4.

 

[Faust]

Ronnie Hillman has not fumbled away Fox's confidenceBy Kevin Patra NFL.com

Ronnie Hillman entered the preseason as the favorite to win the Denver Broncos' starting running back gig. Despite the local outcry, coach John Fox said Hillman isn't fumbling away that chance.

One week after fumbling trying to dive into the endzone, Hillman was stripped by linebacker Alec Ogletree after catching a swing pass from Peyton Manning in Saturday's 27-26 win over the St. Louis Rams.

Fox said despite the fumbles, he hasn't lost faith in the second-year back.

"I personally thought his progress was stopped; otherwise he's got to get on the ground faster or do a better job of holding onto the ball when guys yank on him late in the down," Fox said. "Again, every one of these things is a learning experience for these guys. I think he will work on it, so I have not lost confidence in him whatsoever."

With Knowshon Moreno's improved play and the expectation that rookie Montee Ball's role will expand as he gets a better grasp of the blocking scheme, Hillman conceded that his fumbles might cost him playing time.

"Definitely, when you put the ball on the ground, and you have guys like Montee and Knowshon running the ball as well as they did tonight and Lance (Ball) -- it kind of affects your competition ... It's unacceptable -- what I did, and I just have to work on it."

The "Around The League Podcast" is now available on iTunes! Click here to listen and subscribe.

 

[Faust]

Saturday's 43 takeaways: Rex Ryan loses his coolExcerpts:

The more the Broncos play, the more we think Knowshon Moreno will have a big role. Ronnie Hillman fumbled for the third consecutive game; coach John Fox wasn't amused afterward. Rookie Montee Ball was ordinary again (43 yards on 14 carries) and had a killer drop in the red zone. Moreno did a lot (75 yards from scrimmage) on just eight touches.

Peyton Manning threw 34 passes in only one half of work. He misfired on a few deep throws, with Eric Decker and Demaryius Thomas primarily catching short passes (they combined for 13 catches and 130 yards).

 

[Chaka]

I know Moreno owners are hoping for him to take on the lead back role, just like Hillman owners were. But the evidence of what we have seen so far just doesn't support that going into week 4 PS.

Using your logic one could say that Ball owners are doing the same.

 

[Tau837]

I don't know why anyone would have thought Moreno was out of the running before last night. We have known all along that he had more experience and was a better receiver and pass protector than both Ball and Hillman. We have known all along that those qualities are even more important in a Peyton Manning offense than in some other offenses. And the coaches already knew what they had in Moreno, so there was no reason to think his usage this preseason was an indicator of anything.

IMO Hillman has played himself into a limited COP role, barring injury to Ball or Moreno.

I expect Ball to get more carries and to get the goal line and short yardage work. But I think Moreno will play more than just third downs and two minute drills. I think he will have the second most carries and should easily lead the RBs in receptions.

Barring injury, I don't really want any of these guys on my redraft fantasy teams. But in leagues with a deep bench, Moreno should be cheap enough that he is worth a stash in case Ball gets injured or plays himself into a smaller role.

 

[Bronco Billy]

I know Moreno owners are hoping for him to take on the lead back role, just like Hillman owners were. But the evidence of what we have seen so far just doesn't support that going into week 4 PS.

Using your logic one could say that Ball owners are doing the same.

Yeah, you could - especially if you are willing to overlook that they are using him like a starting RB. There's nothing that can be said that will convince the Moreno true believers when they laud a 3.8 ypc as a badge of credibility And Fox can posture about Hillman's fumbles all he wants, but ignoring that stuff gets HCs fired, and Manning's facial expressions and body language says he'll plainly will not tolerate that

I shouldn't have posted in the first place and was hesitant to do so. The discussion won't be settled until people see what happens in weeks 1-3 of the regular season. With that said, you all have at it.

ETA - Moreno's ypc was 26th in the league when using his rushing attempts as a minimum threshold - and that's with opponents scheming to play the DEN pass O. Just some food for thought.

 

[Eminence]

In my opinion, Hillman is a 3rd Round Pick who is playing like a 3rd Round Pick. Not a serious threat for carries, imo. Truthfully, this could be Coach seeing what he has in his two young backs.

Since he already knows what he has in Moreno.

 

[Chaka]

I know Moreno owners are hoping for him to take on the lead back role, just like Hillman owners were. But the evidence of what we have seen so far just doesn't support that going into week 4 PS.

Using your logic one could say that Ball owners are doing the same.

Yeah, you could - especially if you are willing to overlook that they are using him like a starting RB.

When did they do that?

And I said very clearly that I think Hillman is not an option and Ball could land the starting RB job.

 

[Biabreakable]

In my opinion, Hillman is a 3rd Round Pick who is playing like a 3rd Round Pick. Not a serious threat for carries, imo. Truthfully, this could be Coach seeing what he has in his two young backs.

Since he already knows what he has in Moreno.

Agreed.

What is troubling is that people do not recognize that Monte Ball is a low 2nd round pick, not far from 3rd round himself from a weak rookie RB group. They hear John Elway compare Ball to Terrell Davis and they go whooo! His ADP has been sky high because of Denvers history of producing great RB from anywhere in the draft because of their ZBS.

What people do not seem to be thinking about is that Denver is not the same as they were under Skeletor. Yes they brought back Gibbs, so that looks like they acknowledge McDaniels messed this running scheme up. They want to get back to it. But Denvers offensive line is not what it used to be either. I do not think that gets fixed in one off season and the onus is still on protecting Manning.

The perception about the potential of Monte Ball in this offense = old Denver offense with Nalen and some really good linemen they had at that time is not realistic. But that is what has pushed Ball up so high in terms of ADP and expectations.

Moreno is left over from the McDaniels years and coaches not tied to him. Manning has changed much of the offensive concepts from what they were before as well. There are certain plays such as the steach run that Manning likes to use to set up play action. So they are looking for a RB who can execute those runs well enough for the play action to be more effective.

So in a sense I think people are reaching at something that is no longer there. They are trying to have the running game which will compliment PM not what they were doing with Skeletor. With Gibbs back perhaps they will go back in that direction at some point but it may not be until PM is gone. There isn't time left to keep working on different concepts, they are going to do the best they can with what they have right now.

Very incendiary topic combining John Fox/Panthers history with Denver anybody could be good history and Peyton Manning. Looking at this alarm bells should be ringing, Admiral Akbar should be on 2 min replay for anyone thinking they can call this situation with lucidity.

The bottom line is they must protect Peyton Mannings neck!

 

[monk]

I know Moreno owners are hoping for him to take on the lead back role, just like Hillman owners were. But the evidence of what we have seen so far just doesn't support that going into week 4 PS.

Using your logic one could say that Ball owners are doing the same.

Yeah, you could - especially if you are willing to overlook that they are using him like a starting RB.There's nothing that can be said that will convince the Moreno true believers when they laud a 3.8 ypc as a badge of credibility And Fox can posture about Hillman's fumbles all he wants, but ignoring that stuff gets HCs fired, and Manning's facial expressions and body language says he'll plainly will not tolerate that

I shouldn't have posted in the first place and was hesitant to do so. The discussion won't be settled until people see what happens in weeks 1-3 of the regular season. With that said, you all have at it.

ETA - Moreno's ypc was 26th in the league when using his rushing attempts as a minimum threshold - and that's with opponents scheming to play the DEN pass O. Just some food for thought.

"There's nothing that can be said that will convince the Moreno true believers when they laud a 3.8 ypc as a badge of credibility"

Beats the hell out 3.2 ypc ...But hey!!! Whatever your into!!!!

 

[Bronco Billy]

I know Moreno owners are hoping for him to take on the lead back role, just like Hillman owners were. But the evidence of what we have seen so far just doesn't support that going into week 4 PS.

Using your logic one could say that Ball owners are doing the same.

Yeah, you could - especially if you are willing to overlook that they are using him like a starting RB.There's nothing that can be said that will convince the Moreno true believers when they laud a 3.8 ypc as a badge of credibility And Fox can posture about Hillman's fumbles all he wants, but ignoring that stuff gets HCs fired, and Manning's facial expressions and body language says he'll plainly will not tolerate that

I shouldn't have posted in the first place and was hesitant to do so. The discussion won't be settled until people see what happens in weeks 1-3 of the regular season. With that said, you all have at it.

ETA - Moreno's ypc was 26th in the league when using his rushing attempts as a minimum threshold - and that's with opponents scheming to play the DEN pass O. Just some food for thought.

"There's nothing that can be said that will convince the Moreno true believers when they laud a 3.8 ypc as a badge of credibility" Beats the hell out 3.2 ypc ...But hey!!! Whatever your into!!!!

Whose regular season average for the year is that?

 

[zoonation]

If Hillman doesn't fumble all pre-season think the job was his. They arent putting a Rookie out there for most of the snaps. Moreno is a very average runner. This is still up in the air. I think Hillman ultimately gets the lion's share but we'll see.

 

[monk]

I know Moreno owners are hoping for him to take on the lead back role, just like Hillman owners were. But the evidence of what we have seen so far just doesn't support that going into week 4 PS.

Using your logic one could say that Ball owners are doing the same.

Yeah, you could - especially if you are willing to overlook that they are using him like a starting RB.There's nothing that can be said that will convince the Moreno true believers when they laud a 3.8 ypc as a badge of credibility And Fox can posture about Hillman's fumbles all he wants, but ignoring that stuff gets HCs fired, and Manning's facial expressions and body language says he'll plainly will not tolerate that

I shouldn't have posted in the first place and was hesitant to do so. The discussion won't be settled until people see what happens in weeks 1-3 of the regular season. With that said, you all have at it.

ETA - Moreno's ypc was 26th in the league when using his rushing attempts as a minimum threshold - and that's with opponents scheming to play the DEN pass O. Just some food for thought.

"There's nothing that can be said that will convince the Moreno true believers when they laud a 3.8 ypc as a badge of credibility" Beats the hell out 3.2 ypc ...But hey!!! Whatever your into!!!!

Whose regular season average for the year is that?

It's actually a preseason average ... against a bunch of defenders who wont even be on an NFL roster in a couple of weeks.

 

[N Zone]

I know Moreno owners are hoping for him to take on the lead back role, just like Hillman owners were. But the evidence of what we have seen so far just doesn't support that going into week 4 PS.

Using your logic one could say that Ball owners are doing the same.

Yeah, you could - especially if you are willing to overlook that they are using him like a starting RB.There's nothing that can be said that will convince the Moreno true believers when they laud a 3.8 ypc as a badge of credibility And Fox can posture about Hillman's fumbles all he wants, but ignoring that stuff gets HCs fired, and Manning's facial expressions and body language says he'll plainly will not tolerate that

I shouldn't have posted in the first place and was hesitant to do so. The discussion won't be settled until people see what happens in weeks 1-3 of the regular season. With that said, you all have at it.

ETA - Moreno's ypc was 26th in the league when using his rushing attempts as a minimum threshold - and that's with opponents scheming to play the DEN pass O. Just some food for thought.

"There's nothing that can be said that will convince the Moreno true believers when they laud a 3.8 ypc as a badge of credibility" Beats the hell out 3.2 ypc ...But hey!!! Whatever your into!!!!

Whose regular season average for the year is that?

Moreno played less than half a season, yet you keep repeating he averaged 3.8 ypc. IT DOESN'T MATTER.

Here's a little history lesson for you.

RB stats by year:

Rushing Stats SEASON TEAM GP ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LST 2001

• SD

16 339 1,236 3.6 54 10 67 5 4 2002

• SD

16 372 1,683 4.5 76 14 90 2 0 2003

• SD

16 313 1,645 5.3 73 13 81 2 0 2004

• SD

15 339 1,335 3.9 42 17 68 5 2 2005

• SD

16 339 1,462 4.3 62 18 71 2 0 2006

• SD

16 348 1,815 5.2 85 28 81 2 1 2007

• SD

16 315 1,474 4.7 49 15 75 0 0 2008

• SD

16 292 1,110 3.8 45 11 52 0 0 2009

• SD

14 223 730 3.3 36 12 40 1 1 2010

• NYJ

15 219 914 4.2 31 6 42 2 0 2011

• NYJ

14 75 280 3.7 20 1 15 0 0 Career 170 3,174 13,684 4.3 85 145 682 21 8

-LaDainian Tomlinson

 

[Shutout]

All this has been talked up/down ad naseum and I know the investments people have in "their" players drive their interests but the reality of it all outside our little fake football world is well beyond a bunch of us sitting in a forum talking about how this guy is better because he is bigger or tougher or has a .3 better ypc.

The reality that matters is on No. 18's face. If he isn't protected or doesn't feel like he is being protected or getting what he wants/needs from the others on the field, then the Broncos are nothing and nothing else matters and that player that is creating the scowl on 18's face is going to have little ff value.

For all the talk about what Moreno isn't, we should remember what he is: He is clearly the best pass protecting Rb they have and he was the #6 RB in fantasy football last year in ppr in the 6 games he started (6th best RB in fantasy) so if the Broncos can live with that then it is likely that Hillman and Ball have more work to do to be what a lot of people have hyped them up to be than Moreno does to live down to what those same people say he is not.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

At Monday's practice, rookie Montee Ball was promoted onto the first-team offense with Peyton Manning.
Denver's starter to this point in camp, Ronnie Hillman "was carrying a football around everywhere" after fumbling for the third time this preseason Saturday night. Coach John Fox cautioned to "not read too much into" the depth chart change, but it's been foreseeable. Ball is the best fit for Broncos' offense as a runner, and he didn't miss any pass-pro assignments in the third exhibition game. He's a value pick in the fifth and sixth rounds of fantasy drafts. Knowshon Moreno has the backfield's second most value, with Hillman falling to third.

Related: Knowshon Moreno, Ronnie Hillman

Source: Mike Klis on Twitter

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

i read the tweet and wonder if like John Fox said maybe people are getting a bit carried away. in the sense that if Ronnie is possibly doing a albeit 'doghouse' drill that of course Ball is going to work with the first team b/c he was #2. Would be no different if Ronnie was hurt? next man up

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Broncos OC Adam Gase called Ronnie Hillman's third preseason fumble "unacceptable" and hinted Hillman may struggle for early-season playing time.
"What happened the other day? I’m telling you -- unacceptable," said Gase. "It’s not going to happen; it’s not going to happen anymore. We’re not going to put the ball on the ground, or else they’re not going to carry it." ESPN Denver's Cecil Lammey says Montee Ball "seems like the leader" in Denver's tailback race at the moment, and suggests Hillman could fall to "third in the pecking order," behind Ball and Knowshon Moreno.

Source: ESPN Denver

Coach John Fox said Montee Ball was moved to the first-team offense at Monday's practice because the Broncos want to give him a longer look with the starters.
Ball has taken 25 percent of the first-team reps since OTAs, but on Monday -- Denver's first practice after Ronnie Hillman's third preseason fumble -- Ball was the go-to back with Peyton Manning's group. "We're evaluating everybody regardless of who gets what reps at what number," said Fox. "So, (Ball) is a guy that we want to get some touches and we'll go from there." Ball is on track to get the nominal "start" and handle 15-plus touches in Week 1 against the Ravens.

Source: Denver Post

 

[ShaHBucks]

Moreno starts week 1

 

[Faust]

Moreno starts week 1

I think this is a very likely scenario with Manning, Fox, and Gase making Ball and Hillman work on improving their weaknesses before earning more playing time and for one of them, ultimately the starting job.

 

[OG_GF]

First I will tell you that I did draft Moreno, but it's the FBGPC, so I can't trade him. There's no reason for me to talk him up. Many of you have touched on the reasons he is (or was, a couple days ago) a steal at his ADP.

Doesn't anyone remember last year? McGahee went down, I saw people blow their FAAB to pick up Hillman, and the other Ball, and I picked up Moreno for nothing. And who was named starter game day morning? Moreno.

 

[Judge Smails]

Biased late Moreno drafter here. With Hillman buried now it all comes down to pass blocking. It always does with Manning. Ball gets his shot. Let's just say I'm optimistic about Moreno's chances.

 

[John Paul]

Got Moreno late. Didn't flinch when Ball and Hillman went in rounds 10 and 11. Waited until round 20 and took a cheap flyer that I think pays off. Moreno put up solid numbers in his starts last year. Hillman and Ball just don't impress me. I don't expect Moreno to go a full season as the bell cow, but I'm gambling on the beginning of the season he works in my favor.

 

[Adam Harstad]

The reality that matters is on No. 18's face. If he isn't protected or doesn't feel like he is being protected or getting what he wants/needs from the others on the field, then the Broncos are nothing and nothing else matters and that player that is creating the scowl on 18's face is going to have little ff value.

If Peyton Manning's opinion is what matters, shouldn't we be asking Peyton Manning his opinion?

"We have some young players, we have some first-year starters, potentially at tight end, and we're going to have a young running back. Montee Ball is going to play a lot."

-Peyton Manning after Saturday's game (emphasis mine)

Now, semantically speaking, Knowshon Moreno is pretty young compared to Peyton Manning, but the context of that quote is that Peyton is explaining how young and inexperienced starters are going to lead to some offensive inconsistency. In that context, it's clear that he's not talking about 26-year-old, 5th-year-veteran Knowshon Moreno. People keep saying that Peyton's going to get what he wants, but as casually as Peyton's tossing that comment out, it seems pretty clear to me that Peyton is perfectly comfortable with Hillman or Ball as his primary RB.

Again, I want Moreno to succeed. He's a great team player, and I have nothing against him. I did the recap of Denver's preseason game and I've been doing Denver's camp reports, and I made a point in both places to discuss just how good Moreno looked against the Rams. He had a lot more burst than I've grown accustomed to seeing from him, and he finished all of his touches with real authority. If I were Denver's decision-maker, I might even be tempted to give Moreno a shot after seeing how dedicated he's been this offseason. I'm not Denver's decision-maker, though; instead, I endeavor to listen to the guys that are.

I tend to take what the front office, coaching staff, and other players say at face value rather than searching for hidden meaning. I believe that, Belichick aside, most NFL-types will be remarkably honest and up-front. This could be me being naive, but every indication I've seen so far tells me that Moreno's not the guy. Nobody with any authority even mentions Moreno, except occasionally with guys like Lance Ball or Jacob Hester as a complete afterthought. Everyone talks as if the RB competition is just a two-man race between Hillman and Ball. Moreno's not getting first-team reps. Denver didn't put him in the game until the very end of the first half, after Hillman was shut down for the night (possibly relating to his fumble). It's possible they know what they have in him so they don't feel the need to evaluate him, but I don't know if I buy it. Denver knows what they have in Von Miller, yet he's still playing a ton of snaps with the first string despite Denver having a pressing need to see what else they have behind him. Maybe Denver is going to realize that Knowshon Moreno offers exactly what their offense needs, but I tend to think that Denver's brass is pretty well aware of what their offense needs, and they're pretty well aware of what Moreno offers, so I think a great epiphany is relatively unlikely at this point.

I'm not saying that I'd bet the house on it or anything. I've drafted Knowshon Moreno in the late rounds of several drafts this year, because I do think he's a worthwhile hedge with a very cheap price tag. I'm just saying, I really, really don't think he's going to be the guy this year. This really looks to me like a two-horse race between Ball and Hillman, with Moreno serving as nothing more than a super-reliable veteran insurance policy. Hell, if he hadn't gotten injured, I might think C.J. Anderson was more likely to win the starting job than Knowshon Moreno.

 

[Shutout]

The reality that matters is on No. 18's face. If he isn't protected or doesn't feel like he is being protected or getting what he wants/needs from the others on the field, then the Broncos are nothing and nothing else matters and that player that is creating the scowl on 18's face is going to have little ff value.

If Peyton Manning's opinion is what matters, shouldn't we be asking Peyton Manning his opinion?

"We have some young players, we have some first-year starters, potentially at tight end, and we're going to have a young running back. Montee Ball is going to play a lot."

-Peyton Manning after Saturday's game (emphasis mine)

Now, semantically speaking, Knowshon Moreno is pretty young compared to Peyton Manning, but the context of that quote is that Peyton is explaining how young and inexperienced starters are going to lead to some offensive inconsistency. In that context, it's clear that he's not talking about 26-year-old, 5th-year-veteran Knowshon Moreno. People keep saying that Peyton's going to get what he wants, but as casually as Peyton's tossing that comment out, it seems pretty clear to me that Peyton is perfectly comfortable with Hillman or Ball as his primary RB.

Again, I want Moreno to succeed. He's a great team player, and I have nothing against him. I did the recap of Denver's preseason game and I've been doing Denver's camp reports, and I made a point in both places to discuss just how good Moreno looked against the Rams. He had a lot more burst than I've grown accustomed to seeing from him, and he finished all of his touches with real authority. If I were Denver's decision-maker, I might even be tempted to give Moreno a shot after seeing how dedicated he's been this offseason. I'm not Denver's decision-maker, though; instead, I endeavor to listen to the guys that are.

I tend to take what the front office, coaching staff, and other players say at face value rather than searching for hidden meaning. I believe that, Belichick aside, most NFL-types will be remarkably honest and up-front. This could be me being naive, but every indication I've seen so far tells me that Moreno's not the guy. Nobody with any authority even mentions Moreno, except occasionally with guys like Lance Ball or Jacob Hester as a complete afterthought. Everyone talks as if the RB competition is just a two-man race between Hillman and Ball. Moreno's not getting first-team reps. Denver didn't put him in the game until the very end of the first half, after Hillman was shut down for the night (possibly relating to his fumble). It's possible they know what they have in him so they don't feel the need to evaluate him, but I don't know if I buy it. Denver knows what they have in Von Miller, yet he's still playing a ton of snaps with the first string despite Denver having a pressing need to see what else they have behind him. Maybe Denver is going to realize that Knowshon Moreno offers exactly what their offense needs, but I tend to think that Denver's brass is pretty well aware of what their offense needs, and they're pretty well aware of what Moreno offers, so I think a great epiphany is relatively unlikely at this point.

I'm not saying that I'd bet the house on it or anything. I've drafted Knowshon Moreno in the late rounds of several drafts this year, because I do think he's a worthwhile hedge with a very cheap price tag. I'm just saying, I really, really don't think he's going to be the guy this year. This really looks to me like a two-horse race between Ball and Hillman, with Moreno serving as nothing more than a super-reliable veteran insurance policy. Hell, if he hadn't gotten injured, I might think C.J. Anderson was more likely to win the starting job than Knowshon Moreno.

I can't believe you wasted that much time and space typing something that you have to know what is being said.

Manning could skype all his friends with Ball on his couch and you, I , and everyone in the world knows that does not mean a thing come week 1 when he is looking to win a game. Talk is cheap. C'mon, Adam, you're better than that..Much better. You know in your heart of hearts that if one guy gets Manning blown up and one guy can't hold on to the ball, that the guy that can do those things is going to be the one playing and if Moreno can't do that, they will find someone on the street who can and if they can't find a guy, they will throw 70 times a game.

No matter what is chattered right now, when it comes to winning games, the Broncos are going to lean on their best player and that is Manning and their game plan does not include him getting knocked senseless.

 

[Winning IS Everything]

In a 10 team $200 cap league that drafted last night, Ball went for $18, Hillman I think went for $5 and then I waited until the end of the auction and took Moreno for a $1 flyer. We can keep 2 in this league so I think Ball was bid up as a potential keeper.

I know no one cares about my league/team, but just posted the above to give some insight as to where they are being bid in an auction.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Yeah, because they don't move the primary back into the first team when they are preparing for the season to begin. They keep him on the bench well into the week 3 dress rehearsal and then don't have him run the predominance of the plays with the ones when they open the regular season in 9 days.

Makes sense.

 

[Adam Harstad]

I can't believe you wasted that much time and space typing something that you have to know what is being said.


Manning could skype all his friends with Ball on his couch and you, I , and everyone in the world knows that does not mean a thing come week 1 when he is looking to win a game. Talk is cheap. C'mon, Adam, you're better than that..Much better. You know in your heart of hearts that if one guy gets Manning blown up and one guy can't hold on to the ball, that the guy that can do those things is going to be the one playing and if Moreno can't do that, they will find someone on the street who can and if they can't find a guy, they will throw 70 times a game.

No matter what is chattered right now, when it comes to winning games, the Broncos are going to lean on their best player and that is Manning and their game plan does not include him getting knocked senseless.

Like I said, I tend to think that people around the NFL are remarkably honest, with a few exceptions. Sure, you can't trust anything they say when they start praising a player in public, because they are almost always going to be complimentary to a fault. But in terms of saying who is the starter, who ranks where on the depth chart, who they trust, who needs to work on what, who is going to play... NFL types typically say what they mean, and they typically mean what they say. Maybe this makes me naive, but I've been doing this for a while, and I've seen too many people try to read between the lines when they would have been better off just taking things at face value. I try to make a point of taking things at face value unless they simply don't make any sense at all.

There's a reason why, to this day, if you type out "ploy to mot ivate Tatum Bell" it gets autoreplaced with " ". That reason is because Denver kept saying "hey, we're using Bell as a change of pace back", or "hey, this guy is ahead of Bell on the depth chart", and the fantasy community kept ignoring it and assuming it was some sort of secret coach trick to get Bell to work harder... and then it turned out every time that the coaches were just telling the truth for anyone who cared to listen. Most coaches don't play motivational games with their players. They put the guys they like the best at the top, and they give them the most reps. You don't see presumptive starters running with the third string in the offseason because the franchise wants to see what they have in his backups.

It's not like Denver hasn't considered pass protection. It's not like they're going to wake up tomorrow and think "oh geez, I never thought of this before, but if we start Montee Ball, Peyton Manning might get hit during a game! I better move Ball down the depth chart!" They're well aware of Ball's weaknesses, and of Hillman's weaknesses, and they're still putting both of those guys well ahead of Knowshon Moreno.

You say I'm much better than this, but I'm not so sure. I keep hearing every. single. person. in the organization moving in perfect lockstep, throwing out countless signals and offhand comments and outright declarations that Knowshon Moreno is a backup... and in my heart of hearts, I believe them. I truly, honestly do. Again, this might make me naive. I might look like a trusting fool two months from now when the rug gets pulled out from under me. If so, I'll be the first to stand up and say that I fell for it hook, line, and sinker, that I was totally fooled and perhaps that I should have known better. Right now, I'm willing to risk it, because I believe "take what the front office, coaching staff, and other players are saying at face value" is textbook "good process". In a couple of months, we'll have another data point, and another chance for me to reevaluate that process and see if it really stands up. I'm excited about that. As a Broncos fan, I'm sure the coaching staff will utilize whatever back they feel gives them the best chance to win, and I'm excited about that, too. If it's Knowshon Moreno, then that's great- as I mentioned, I've drafted him as a late flier in plenty of leagues, so I certainly stand to benefit if Moreno becomes the clear-cut featured back. However it winds up working out, we'll find out soon enough.

 

[moleculo]

I agree that right now, Moreno is entrenched behind both Ball and Hillman. I believe that's based on what the coaches think gives them the best chance to win, and is rooted in what they see first hand, all day, every day. That's where he is, as of 8/27/2013.

The question becomes - where is he on the depth charts, come 9/5? What about 9/23? What about 11/17? 12/29?

Coaches reserve the right to change their minds, and re-adjust as they see fit.

I just drafted Moreno in the 12th round of a recent 12 team draft full of footballguys. I'm not drafting him to be the day one starter, I'm not drafting him to be the 3rd down back, or the CoP back. I'm drafting him on the possibility that one day, the coaches change their minds and put the ball in Moreno's hand. I'm drafting him because I believe there is some nice PPR value in any back in a Manning offense, and I want a piece of the pie. Neither Ball nor Hillman has sparkled in pre-season despite being given every opportunity to lock the job up. Moreno may be on the outside looking in, but the door is certainly not closed.

Moreno is a lottery ticket in a very depleted RB pool, and lottery tickets always have value.

 

[Adam Harstad]

I agree that right now, Moreno is entrenched behind both Ball and Hillman. I believe that's based on what the coaches think gives them the best chance to win, and is rooted in what they see first hand, all day, every day. That's where he is, as of 8/27/2013.

The question becomes - where is he on the depth charts, come 9/5? What about 9/23? What about 11/17? 12/29?

Coaches reserve the right to change their minds, and re-adjust as they see fit.

I just drafted Moreno in the 12th round of a recent 12 team draft full of footballguys. I'm not drafting him to be the day one starter, I'm not drafting him to be the 3rd down back, or the CoP back. I'm drafting him on the possibility that one day, the coaches change their minds and put the ball in Moreno's hand. I'm drafting him because I believe there is some nice PPR value in any back in a Manning offense, and I want a piece of the pie. Neither Ball nor Hillman has sparkled in pre-season despite being given every opportunity to lock the job up. Moreno may be on the outside looking in, but the door is certainly not closed.

Moreno is a lottery ticket in a very depleted RB pool, and lottery tickets always have value.

Sure. Same as with Ben Tate, Bernard Pierce, Bryce Brown, or Christine Michael. None of these players should be going undrafted, except in the shallowest of leagues. Those players don't get drafted with the EXPECTATION that they'll be starters, though- they get drafted based merely on the possibility (but not probability) that they'll luck into a plum job somewhere down the line.

The thing that I don't understand is that a lot of Knowshon Moreno fans are drafting him with the EXPECTATION that he's going to be the starter. I don't think there's been anything to this point that justifies that expectation. Could Ronnie Hillman keep coughing up the ball and Montee Ball get hurt? Sure. The coaches see these players every day, though, and if they thought that was likely, they'd have Moreno ahead of them already. And it's not like Knowshon Moreno is incapable of fumbling or getting hurt, either.

If you want a late-round lottery ticket who has huge upside should things break his way, Knowshon Moreno's a decent play. Just realize that a lot of things need to go his way for him to pay off. He's basically Knile Davis- a mediocre talent stuck as a clear backup in a potentially phenomenal offense. I happen to like taking Knile Davis at the end of my drafts, too.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Coach John Fox insists Ronnie Hillman will have a role for the Broncos this season.
For the first time all offseason, Hillman operated behind Montee Ball at Monday's practice. It comes on the heels of another fumble -- his third of the preseason. "Look, Ronnie Hillman is going to play a lot of football. You can put that in the bank," Fox said. "There's no formula where that's not going to happen." Hillman may play, but he's lost his grip on the starting job. He's angling for change-of-pace duties now, possibly behind both Ball and Knowshon Moreno.


Source: Denver Post

 

[ponchsox]

Broncos OC Adam Gase said the team plans to use a committee at running back, and that they've "never shied away from that."
The Broncos have hinted at a committee all summer, it's just that now the chairman is in question. Ronnie Hillman was being groomed for the role before fumbling away his opportunity in the first three preseason games. Now Montee Ball is running with the first team, while Knowshon Moreno could be the primary third-down back. In terms of fantasy value, we'd put Hillman behind Moreno for the time being.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Hillman is easy to eliminate. Can't pass block effectively to protect Peyton Manning. He's a interesting speed back but he's small. I peg him for 5-8 carries a game and a emergency starter.

McGahee was the next easiest to cut. Thats done.

It comes down to Ball or Moreno having the potential of a workhorse. What if Ball struggles with the Off? Or he can't pass block on this level yet? What if he's not that special? I don't think the Broncos will hitch their superbowl hopes on a rookie rb. He was a late 2nd round pick, that's not relly a statement.

Why not Moreno? He's only 25 and you were probably all over him coming out in 2009. BAL-NYG-OAK-PHI-DAL-JAC-IND-WAS to start the season. I want in on that part of the schedule even it's to flip him befor Hillman/Ball eats into carries late season. He's just as likely to start game 1 as the other guys.

I'm playing whack a mole. Hillman earned his place as a COP. Him getting hit enough cause fumble returns. He's a nice piece to the backfield but not a 3 down back. I seen a study done on Wisconsin RBs awhile ago. Looks like Ball is doing nothing to prove them wrong. If you like drafting guys with mediocre upside have a ball(no pun) and keep wasting picks on these guys. Manning's health and a Super Bowl could possibly be on the line if Fox keeps insisting on rotating two inexperienced backs over Knowshon. I'm staying on record with Knowshon starting week 1. There's nothing but upside at his ADP anyway.

 

[Bob Magaw]

The reality that matters is on No. 18's face. If he isn't protected or doesn't feel like he is being protected or getting what he wants/needs from the others on the field, then the Broncos are nothing and nothing else matters and that player that is creating the scowl on 18's face is going to have little ff value.

If Peyton Manning's opinion is what matters, shouldn't we be asking Peyton Manning his opinion?

"We have some young players, we have some first-year starters, potentially at tight end, and we're going to have a young running back. Montee Ball is going to play a lot."

-Peyton Manning after Saturday's game (emphasis mine)

Now, semantically speaking, Knowshon Moreno is pretty young compared to Peyton Manning, but the context of that quote is that Peyton is explaining how young and inexperienced starters are going to lead to some offensive inconsistency. In that context, it's clear that he's not talking about 26-year-old, 5th-year-veteran Knowshon Moreno. People keep saying that Peyton's going to get what he wants, but as casually as Peyton's tossing that comment out, it seems pretty clear to me that Peyton is perfectly comfortable with Hillman or Ball as his primary RB.

Again, I want Moreno to succeed. He's a great team player, and I have nothing against him. I did the recap of Denver's preseason game and I've been doing Denver's camp reports, and I made a point in both places to discuss just how good Moreno looked against the Rams. He had a lot more burst than I've grown accustomed to seeing from him, and he finished all of his touches with real authority. If I were Denver's decision-maker, I might even be tempted to give Moreno a shot after seeing how dedicated he's been this offseason. I'm not Denver's decision-maker, though; instead, I endeavor to listen to the guys that are.

I tend to take what the front office, coaching staff, and other players say at face value rather than searching for hidden meaning. I believe that, Belichick aside, most NFL-types will be remarkably honest and up-front. This could be me being naive, but every indication I've seen so far tells me that Moreno's not the guy. Nobody with any authority even mentions Moreno, except occasionally with guys like Lance Ball or Jacob Hester as a complete afterthought. Everyone talks as if the RB competition is just a two-man race between Hillman and Ball. Moreno's not getting first-team reps. Denver didn't put him in the game until the very end of the first half, after Hillman was shut down for the night (possibly relating to his fumble). It's possible they know what they have in him so they don't feel the need to evaluate him, but I don't know if I buy it. Denver knows what they have in Von Miller, yet he's still playing a ton of snaps with the first string despite Denver having a pressing need to see what else they have behind him. Maybe Denver is going to realize that Knowshon Moreno offers exactly what their offense needs, but I tend to think that Denver's brass is pretty well aware of what their offense needs, and they're pretty well aware of what Moreno offers, so I think a great epiphany is relatively unlikely at this point.

I'm not saying that I'd bet the house on it or anything. I've drafted Knowshon Moreno in the late rounds of several drafts this year, because I do think he's a worthwhile hedge with a very cheap price tag. I'm just saying, I really, really don't think he's going to be the guy this year. This really looks to me like a two-horse race between Ball and Hillman, with Moreno serving as nothing more than a super-reliable veteran insurance policy. Hell, if he hadn't gotten injured, I might think C.J. Anderson was more likely to win the starting job than Knowshon Moreno.

I can't believe you wasted that much time and space typing something that you have to know what is being said.Manning could skype all his friends with Ball on his couch and you, I , and everyone in the world knows that does not mean a thing come week 1 when he is looking to win a game. Talk is cheap. C'mon, Adam, you're better than that..Much better. You know in your heart of hearts that if one guy gets Manning blown up and one guy can't hold on to the ball, that the guy that can do those things is going to be the one playing and if Moreno can't do that, they will find someone on the street who can and if they can't find a guy, they will throw 70 times a game.

No matter what is chattered right now, when it comes to winning games, the Broncos are going to lean on their best player and that is Manning and their game plan does not include him getting knocked senseless.

have you considered the possibility that manning has factored in thinking ball can take care of business blocking in making that comment?

manning knows ball needs to handle his blocking assignments... THAT IS A GIVEN...

KNOWING THAT... he is saying ball is going to play a lot...

do you think manning is being mindless and oblivious to these considerations, or that he is incapable of making a projection of whether or not ball will be able to achieve requisite competence in this admittedly key department?

* saying ball will play a lot is telling (and they have said this all along, since elway called him reminiscent of terrell davis and a career back in wake of draft, and despite fox's ominous history with RBs, manning stating he would see the field early)...

saying he will play a lot doesn't sound like ball, hillman and moreno will all get 1/3 of the carries...

hillman will likely be a situational, third down RB... he finished the season at 180 lbs last year... even putting on 20 lbs., he just isn't built to be a feature RB... if he keeps fumbling, moreno will be the third down RB... unless ball gets hurt, he should see the majority of the carries...

in third game against rams, don't think it was against starters (i think he played in first half, but it was in second half, after hillman fumble, second disastrous one in as many weeks that led to opposing TD)... but he looked good on a short TD run... made decisive cut, got low, and used his leg strength to bull through a tackler...

i think many are underestimating how many TDs he could score...

its not that hard to get 1,000 yards if he gets the volume of carries (16 X about 63 yards?)... if he gets 10-12 TDs on top of that, he will surprise a lot of people by the end of the season... 2012 rookie trent richardson finished #9 RB in FBG scoring with just 950 yards but a robust 11 rushing TDs (also 51-367-1 receiving, which i don't see ball getting close to, maybe about 24-32 receptions?)...

only four RBs had more that 11 rushing TDs...

only three WRs had more than 11 TDs...

gronk was only TE that had 11 TDs...

 

[Shutout]

The reality that matters is on No. 18's face. If he isn't protected or doesn't feel like he is being protected or getting what he wants/needs from the others on the field, then the Broncos are nothing and nothing else matters and that player that is creating the scowl on 18's face is going to have little ff value.

If Peyton Manning's opinion is what matters, shouldn't we be asking Peyton Manning his opinion? "We have some young players, we have some first-year starters, potentially at tight end, and we're going to have a young running back. Montee Ball is going to play a lot."-Peyton Manning after Saturday's game (emphasis mine) Now, semantically speaking, Knowshon Moreno is pretty young compared to Peyton Manning, but the context of that quote is that Peyton is explaining how young and inexperienced starters are going to lead to some offensive inconsistency. In that context, it's clear that he's not talking about 26-year-old, 5th-year-veteran Knowshon Moreno. People keep saying that Peyton's going to get what he wants, but as casually as Peyton's tossing that comment out, it seems pretty clear to me that Peyton is perfectly comfortable with Hillman or Ball as his primary RB. Again, I want Moreno to succeed. He's a great team player, and I have nothing against him. I did the recap of Denver's preseason game and I've been doing Denver's camp reports, and I made a point in both places to discuss just how good Moreno looked against the Rams. He had a lot more burst than I've grown accustomed to seeing from him, and he finished all of his touches with real authority. If I were Denver's decision-maker, I might even be tempted to give Moreno a shot after seeing how dedicated he's been this offseason. I'm not Denver's decision-maker, though; instead, I endeavor to listen to the guys that are. I tend to take what the front office, coaching staff, and other players say at face value rather than searching for hidden meaning. I believe that, Belichick aside, most NFL-types will be remarkably honest and up-front. This could be me being naive, but every indication I've seen so far tells me that Moreno's not the guy. Nobody with any authority even mentions Moreno, except occasionally with guys like Lance Ball or Jacob Hester as a complete afterthought. Everyone talks as if the RB competition is just a two-man race between Hillman and Ball. Moreno's not getting first-team reps. Denver didn't put him in the game until the very end of the first half, after Hillman was shut down for the night (possibly relating to his fumble). It's possible they know what they have in him so they don't feel the need to evaluate him, but I don't know if I buy it. Denver knows what they have in Von Miller, yet he's still playing a ton of snaps with the first string despite Denver having a pressing need to see what else they have behind him. Maybe Denver is going to realize that Knowshon Moreno offers exactly what their offense needs, but I tend to think that Denver's brass is pretty well aware of what their offense needs, and they're pretty well aware of what Moreno offers, so I think a great epiphany is relatively unlikely at this point. I'm not saying that I'd bet the house on it or anything. I've drafted Knowshon Moreno in the late rounds of several drafts this year, because I do think he's a worthwhile hedge with a very cheap price tag. I'm just saying, I really, really don't think he's going to be the guy this year. This really looks to me like a two-horse race between Ball and Hillman, with Moreno serving as nothing more than a super-reliable veteran insurance policy. Hell, if he hadn't gotten injured, I might think C.J. Anderson was more likely to win the starting job than Knowshon Moreno.

I can't believe you wasted that much time and space typing something that you have to know what is being said. Manning could skype all his friends with Ball on his couch and you, I , and everyone in the world knows that does not mean a thing come week 1 when he is looking to win a game. Talk is cheap. C'mon, Adam, you're better than that..Much better. You know in your heart of hearts that if one guy gets Manning blown up and one guy can't hold on to the ball, that the guy that can do those things is going to be the one playing and if Moreno can't do that, they will find someone on the street who can and if they can't find a guy, they will throw 70 times a game. No matter what is chattered right now, when it comes to winning games, the Broncos are going to lean on their best player and that is Manning and their game plan does not include him getting knocked senseless.

have you considered the possibility that manning has factored in thinking ball can take care of business blocking in making that comment?manning knows ball needs to handle his blocking assignments... THAT IS A GIVEN...KNOWING THAT... he is saying ball is going to play a lot...do you think manning is being mindless and oblivious to these considerations, or that he is incapable of making a projection of whether or not ball will be able to achieve requisite competence in this admittedly key department?

Why yes, yes I have. Just as much as I have considered that Peyton manning is about as "company man" as they come and I'm sure he is going to say nice things about the team's 2nd round draft pick. Lets not be silly enough to think that things said in theory outweigh what happens on the field.

In July someone stuck a mic under Manning's mouth and asked him how he liked a few players. What's anyone going to do in that situation, really?

In August, someone lined up teams to play football games and we saw the franchise get blown up and sneer and we saw them turn the ball over multiple times with the other guys. I have watched enough of Peyton manning and any coach or team over the years to know that they all frown on both those scenarios. The actions speak louder than the words.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

The first-team RB was different today than it was yesterday. On Monday we saw Montee Ball enter with the first-team and get a majority of the reps. Today it was back to Hillman as the lead back.

Moreno only gets time with the first-team in 2-minute drills.

After practice Fox re-emphasized the team will use a RBBC with both Hillman/Ball. Here's the quotes:

On the running back position and who will be the starter

“Well, I don’t even know yet, so I don’t know how you all know. We’ve got another preseason game. We have good feelings about both of them (RBs Montee Ball and Ronnie Hillman). As I mentioned yesterday, they’ll both carry a big load for us this season—knock on wood. Whether it’s ‘1A’ and ‘1,’ or however you want to list it, they’re both very capable and we’re very pleased with both of them.”

On if he can get a good enough feel about the running backs in practice

“We’re not going to get into how much we’re going to play anybody on Thursday, other than to say that we’ve seen plenty that I think everybody in that locker room, and on our coaching staff, has confidence in both of them”

On RB Knowshon Moreno

“He’s high up there too. If you look over my last two years, or my tenure here, we’ve leaned on a lot of different guys. We’ll keep more than one-deep—you’re allowed to do that in this league with 53 players. We’ve had to have, ‘Next man up,’ a bunch, so I don’t think—I can’t predict the future. But whoever we keep we feel good about.”

 

[Ghost Rider]

Speaking as a Broncos fan here, I am gonna run my head through a wall if they give Hillman a lot of playing time when the regular season rolls around. With Bell showing some promise and Moreno fairly solid, we don't need a fumbler like Hillman giving games away, especially he doesn't do anything the other two can't do.

 

[Riffraff]

Speaking as a Broncos fan here, I am gonna run my head through a wall if they give Hillman a lot of playing time when the regular season rolls around. With Bell showing some promise and Moreno fairly solid, we don't need a fumbler like Hillman giving games away, especially he doesn't do anything the other two can't do.

Moreno has 8 lost fumbles in 604 career carries / 44 games. He's not immune to it.

 

[Bob Magaw]

The reality that matters is on No. 18's face. If he isn't protected or doesn't feel like he is being protected or getting what he wants/needs from the others on the field, then the Broncos are nothing and nothing else matters and that player that is creating the scowl on 18's face is going to have little ff value.

If Peyton Manning's opinion is what matters, shouldn't we be asking Peyton Manning his opinion? "We have some young players, we have some first-year starters, potentially at tight end, and we're going to have a young running back. Montee Ball is going to play a lot."-Peyton Manning after Saturday's game (emphasis mine) Now, semantically speaking, Knowshon Moreno is pretty young compared to Peyton Manning, but the context of that quote is that Peyton is explaining how young and inexperienced starters are going to lead to some offensive inconsistency. In that context, it's clear that he's not talking about 26-year-old, 5th-year-veteran Knowshon Moreno. People keep saying that Peyton's going to get what he wants, but as casually as Peyton's tossing that comment out, it seems pretty clear to me that Peyton is perfectly comfortable with Hillman or Ball as his primary RB. Again, I want Moreno to succeed. He's a great team player, and I have nothing against him. I did the recap of Denver's preseason game and I've been doing Denver's camp reports, and I made a point in both places to discuss just how good Moreno looked against the Rams. He had a lot more burst than I've grown accustomed to seeing from him, and he finished all of his touches with real authority. If I were Denver's decision-maker, I might even be tempted to give Moreno a shot after seeing how dedicated he's been this offseason. I'm not Denver's decision-maker, though; instead, I endeavor to listen to the guys that are. I tend to take what the front office, coaching staff, and other players say at face value rather than searching for hidden meaning. I believe that, Belichick aside, most NFL-types will be remarkably honest and up-front. This could be me being naive, but every indication I've seen so far tells me that Moreno's not the guy. Nobody with any authority even mentions Moreno, except occasionally with guys like Lance Ball or Jacob Hester as a complete afterthought. Everyone talks as if the RB competition is just a two-man race between Hillman and Ball. Moreno's not getting first-team reps. Denver didn't put him in the game until the very end of the first half, after Hillman was shut down for the night (possibly relating to his fumble). It's possible they know what they have in him so they don't feel the need to evaluate him, but I don't know if I buy it. Denver knows what they have in Von Miller, yet he's still playing a ton of snaps with the first string despite Denver having a pressing need to see what else they have behind him. Maybe Denver is going to realize that Knowshon Moreno offers exactly what their offense needs, but I tend to think that Denver's brass is pretty well aware of what their offense needs, and they're pretty well aware of what Moreno offers, so I think a great epiphany is relatively unlikely at this point. I'm not saying that I'd bet the house on it or anything. I've drafted Knowshon Moreno in the late rounds of several drafts this year, because I do think he's a worthwhile hedge with a very cheap price tag. I'm just saying, I really, really don't think he's going to be the guy this year. This really looks to me like a two-horse race between Ball and Hillman, with Moreno serving as nothing more than a super-reliable veteran insurance policy. Hell, if he hadn't gotten injured, I might think C.J. Anderson was more likely to win the starting job than Knowshon Moreno.

I can't believe you wasted that much time and space typing something that you have to know what is being said. Manning could skype all his friends with Ball on his couch and you, I , and everyone in the world knows that does not mean a thing come week 1 when he is looking to win a game. Talk is cheap. C'mon, Adam, you're better than that..Much better. You know in your heart of hearts that if one guy gets Manning blown up and one guy can't hold on to the ball, that the guy that can do those things is going to be the one playing and if Moreno can't do that, they will find someone on the street who can and if they can't find a guy, they will throw 70 times a game. No matter what is chattered right now, when it comes to winning games, the Broncos are going to lean on their best player and that is Manning and their game plan does not include him getting knocked senseless.

have you considered the possibility that manning has factored in thinking ball can take care of business blocking in making that comment?manning knows ball needs to handle his blocking assignments... THAT IS A GIVEN...KNOWING THAT... he is saying ball is going to play a lot...do you think manning is being mindless and oblivious to these considerations, or that he is incapable of making a projection of whether or not ball will be able to achieve requisite competence in this admittedly key department?

Why yes, yes I have. Just as much as I have considered that Peyton manning is about as "company man" as they come and I'm sure he is going to say nice things about the team's 2nd round draft pick.Lets not be silly enough to think that things said in theory outweigh what happens on the field.

In July someone stuck a mic under Manning's mouth and asked him how he liked a few players. What's anyone going to do in that situation, really?

In August, someone lined up teams to play football games and we saw the franchise get blown up and sneer and we saw them turn the ball over multiple times with the other guys. I have watched enough of Peyton manning and any coach or team over the years to know that they all frown on both those scenarios. The actions speak louder than the words.

so, hopefully not to put too fine a point on it, but just for the record...

nobody knows what will happen once the season starts, even elway, fox, manning...

so point taken, ball could whiff on first block attempt, manning could suffer carrer ending injury on first pass atempt of the season... anything could happen...

but just speaking to manning's endorsement right now, before the season starts, having to do with his and team's expectations...

in your opinion, do you think manning is "really" lying (as you said, maybe he is just being company man?), and deep down thinks ball's pass pro will be so abominably, appallingly bad he has no real hope of holding onto starting gig...

or do you think manning is being sincere, but could be subsequently proven wrong?

if the answer is the former, i don't really have a response? maybe you're right... maybe colts homers can weigh in on whether manning has history of misleading statement about rookie skill positions, falsely building up expectations only to dash their hopes?

if the latter... sure anything could happen? that kind of falls into the category of information we already possess, right? but unless you are ASSUMING manning is lying (i'm not, but still not sure about your position on this even after the back and forth - the company man comment leaves your stance here unclear... and maybe you think it is 50/50 proposition whether he is lying or sincere, but you haven't made this clear)...

i would just make the point that if we don't assume manning is lying... yeah, obviously he COULD be wrong, but he has been around the pike a few times... he has actual experience integrating rookie RBs like edge and addai into offense at high level right away, so he may be in a better position than you at having a sense of which rookies have what it takes and which don't.

* BTW, some observers noted he looked improved in pass pro in third game...

 

[3optic]

Speaking as a Broncos fan here, I am gonna run my head through a wall if they give Hillman a lot of playing time when the regular season rolls around. With Bell showing some promise and Moreno fairly solid, we don't need a fumbler like Hillman giving games away, especially he doesn't do anything the other two can't do.

Moreno has 8 lost fumbles in 604 career carries / 44 games. He's not immune to it.

Also: What if he can do things the others can't.. like run faster

 

[Bob Magaw]

The first-team RB was different today than it was yesterday. On Monday we saw Montee Ball enter with the first-team and get a majority of the reps. Today it was back to Hillman as the lead back.

Moreno only gets time with the first-team in 2-minute drills.

After practice Fox re-emphasized the team will use a RBBC with both Hillman/Ball. Here's the quotes:

On the running back position and who will be the starter

“Well, I don’t even know yet, so I don’t know how you all know. We’ve got another preseason game. We have good feelings about both of them (RBs Montee Ball and Ronnie Hillman). As I mentioned yesterday, they’ll both carry a big load for us this season—knock on wood. Whether it’s ‘1A’ and ‘1,’ or however you want to list it, they’re both very capable and we’re very pleased with both of them.”

On if he can get a good enough feel about the running backs in practice

“We’re not going to get into how much we’re going to play anybody on Thursday, other than to say that we’ve seen plenty that I think everybody in that locker room, and on our coaching staff, has confidence in both of them”

On RB Knowshon Moreno

“He’s high up there too. If you look over my last two years, or my tenure here, we’ve leaned on a lot of different guys. We’ll keep more than one-deep—you’re allowed to do that in this league with 53 players. We’ve had to have, ‘Next man up,’ a bunch, so I don’t think—I can’t predict the future. But whoever we keep we feel good about.”

i see a few potentially telling things here...

on the first question, he was prompted with a generic question about starter (not leading or loaded)... fox states they feel good about BOTH of them... not all THREE (or not 1A, 1B & 1)... that seems to point to ball and hillman... and away from moreno as realistic INTENDED starting options...

on third question, next man up in reference to moreno seems to allude to backup, depth role, if needed (could be injury, but also underwhelming performance, running or blocking?)... but maybe reading to much into this point, the above one seems to make it more clearly...

 

[moleculo]

The first-team RB was different today than it was yesterday. On Monday we saw Montee Ball enter with the first-team and get a majority of the reps. Today it was back to Hillman as the lead back.

Moreno only gets time with the first-team in 2-minute drills.

After practice Fox re-emphasized the team will use a RBBC with both Hillman/Ball. Here's the quotes:

On the running back position and who will be the starter

“Well, I don’t even know yet, so I don’t know how you all know. We’ve got another preseason game. We have good feelings about both of them (RBs Montee Ball and Ronnie Hillman). As I mentioned yesterday, they’ll both carry a big load for us this season—knock on wood. Whether it’s ‘1A’ and ‘1,’ or however you want to list it, they’re both very capable and we’re very pleased with both of them.”

On if he can get a good enough feel about the running backs in practice

“We’re not going to get into how much we’re going to play anybody on Thursday, other than to say that we’ve seen plenty that I think everybody in that locker room, and on our coaching staff, has confidence in both of them”

On RB Knowshon Moreno

“He’s high up there too. If you look over my last two years, or my tenure here, we’ve leaned on a lot of different guys. We’ll keep more than one-deep—you’re allowed to do that in this league with 53 players. We’ve had to have, ‘Next man up,’ a bunch, so I don’t think—I can’t predict the future. But whoever we keep we feel good about.”

thanks Cecil. Any update on CJ?

 

[sho nuff]

Hillman is easy to eliminate. Can't pass block effectively to protect Peyton Manning. He's a interesting speed back but he's small. I peg him for 5-8 carries a game and a emergency starter.

McGahee was the next easiest to cut. Thats done.

It comes down to Ball or Moreno having the potential of a workhorse. What if Ball struggles with the Off? Or he can't pass block on this level yet? What if he's not that special? I don't think the Broncos will hitch their superbowl hopes on a rookie rb. He was a late 2nd round pick, that's not relly a statement.

Why not Moreno? He's only 25 and you were probably all over him coming out in 2009. BAL-NYG-OAK-PHI-DAL-JAC-IND-WAS to start the season. I want in on that part of the schedule even it's to flip him befor Hillman/Ball eats into carries late season. He's just as likely to start game 1 as the other guys.

I'm playing whack a mole. Hillman earned his place as a COP. Him getting hit enough cause fumble returns. He's a nice piece to the backfield but not a 3 down back.I seen a study done on Wisconsin RBs awhile ago. Looks like Ball is doing nothing to prove them wrong. If you like drafting guys with mediocre upside have a ball(no pun) and keep wasting picks on these guys. Manning's health and a Super Bowl could possibly be on the line if Fox keeps insisting on rotating two inexperienced backs over Knowshon. I'm staying on record with Knowshon starting week 1. There's nothing but upside at his ADP anyway.

Was this Wisconsin RB study similar to one about Tedford QBs?

Basically...the studies are bunk...since each back is different.

TO call Montee Ball limited in upside...in a Peyton Manning offense seems a bit...well incorrect.

 

[Bob Magaw]

another possible cause for optimism with rookie ball...

RB is notorious for being offensive, skill position most amenable to excelling right away, as it is more intuitive and instinctive (hit the hole, run where they aint, etc.)...

that may be true in general, but in a lot of offenses, OC calls the play on the sideline, QB walks up to the LOS, that is play called...

manning, OTOH, is legendary for switching up play called with myriad audibles based on alignments, and what he is presented by defense, as he walks up to line, and as they make last second switches and realignments themselves...

so, it is possible ball's head is swimming right now because of the complexity of mannings audible possibilities... possibly exponentially more?

this could cause him to look slow, now, while he is processing everything, making him think instead of just react, effectively slowing him down...

with more reps and familiarity with scheme and myriad audible packages, we may see him speed up throughout the year, and begin to play faster...

 

[Thews40]

Moreno starts week 1

I think this is a very likely scenario with Manning, Fox, and Gase making Ball and Hillman work on improving their weaknesses before earning more playing time and for one of them, ultimately the starting job.

I agree. It's a mess to be sure, but I heard on local Denver radio that Hillman has small hands and it's why he fumbles. Bang for buck, Moreno is the best Den RB IMO.

 

[weebs]

Moreno starts week 1

I think this is a very likely scenario with Manning, Fox, and Gase making Ball and Hillman work on improving their weaknesses before earning more playing time and for one of them, ultimately the starting job.

I agree. It's a mess to be sure, but I heard on local Denver radio that Hillman has small hands and it's why he fumbles. Bang for buck, Moreno is the best Den RB IMO.

Moreno owner?

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

Yeah, because they don't move the primary back into the first team when they are preparing for the season to begin. They keep him on the bench well into the week 3 dress rehearsal and then don't have him run the predominance of the plays with the ones when they open the regular season in 9 days.

Makes sense.

I actually think it does in this case. What does Moreno need to show at this point in his career? The coaches know that with him they have a guy who isn't great, but he can protect the QB. The young guys need reps and the coaches need to see them perform. Obviously if the young guys do perform they will keep their spot, but if not 'ol reliable is sitting in his stable waiting.