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Browns 2005 season review by position (1 Viewer)

BGP

Indians Fever
The following opinions and views are not my own, but was culled from other public forums from those with a what I believe to be a keen eye:QB:The position is unsettled. Romeo Crennel has not named Dilfer or Frye the starter heading into training camp. RB:One of the two of Suggs and Green will not be here next year. IMO it is Green who will be odd many out. His contract is bigger and he tended to sulk when not getting playing time. Suggs was quiet and did what he could when he got the chance. WR:Bryant will be a decent WR if given another good WR on the other side of the field. Don't expect Edwards to be [ the #1 WR ] next year though, and KW2 might not be fully healthy either by the time TC starts. IMO the Browns need another quality WR to start, especially if Edwards won't be ready (likely) and KW2 is still rehabbing (also likely). Northcutt isn't the guy. TE:Irons will probably stick. Shea will probably leave. No need for more FA's at this spot. OL:Coleman and Andruzzi need upgrading, and I don't care if they are FA's or draft picks. The line was still below average this year and it is more a credit to the Browns' weak schedule and Droughns' hard running than their blocking that he got over 1100 yards. LT is the weak link of the line, that and depth all up and down the line. Anyone who doubts me just rewatch some of the games when Andruzzi, Coleman or Faine were out; their backups were piledriven into the backfield nearly every play. Pucillo was adequate as a backup guard, but he was literally destroyed at center when he was replacing Faine. DL:Revamp it. If Roye sticks around, fine. If McKinley or Fisk stays as a backup, fine. We need a real 3-4 NT. Guys like Sam Adams and Grady Jackson are available I think, so if our big FA signing is a bona fide NT, fine by me. Guys who are best suited to the 3-4 end spot aren't usually coveted 4-3 ends or DT's, so hopefully we can get a good player without having to outbid a dozen other teams. For me, the biggest test of Savage's ability this offseason is what he does with the D-line. I've said repeatedly that the front 7 on defense is where the Browns need to focus, followed closely by the offensive line. If they go after linemen and LB's and stick with the OL, I won't be ecstatic but I'll be satisfied for now. LB:Thompson IMO should be a pass rushing specialist aka Jamir Miller. Neither Taylor nor Lang need to be on the team as LB's next year. I said I'd like to see him be a pass rusher on obvious passing downs. He made way too many mistakes this season on running plays for me to want him starting. Andre Davis is overrated. Let's see, how about his lack of impact tackles (defined as at or behind the LOS), his tendency to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and his tendency to make tackles 4-8 yards after the RB gets past the LOS? Not to mention his lack of pass rushing skills. Other than that he's just fine. Of those 149 tackles, only 7 of them were behind the LOS. That's pathetic, especially for an ILB on a 3-4 defense. Many, many of those 149 tackles were well PAST the LOS of as well, which is beyond pathetic. He could have made 300 tackles and I'd be down on him if he isn't doing his work at the LOS as far as I'm concerned. He wasn't being blocked out of the play all the time. I saw him numerous times in numerous games when he would GUESS on where to go, be wrong and end up having to chase down the RB. And yes, I expect a 3-4 ILB to be able to get off a blocker and make plays. He doesn't do it. CB:CB: Stand pat unless something great comes along. Bodden was a pleasant surprise, Baxter is better than average. [ McCutcheon ] is a solid nickle back. He's overmatched by larger WR's. Bodden is bigger and as fast as McCutcheon, and while he made some bad plays this year he stepped his play up when he needed to as well. P:Richardson should be released as soon as it is legal to do so. I don't care if they draft a punter in a later round to replace him; anyone would be better than seeing another punt go off the side of his foot again. -----------2005 draft:IMO Savage gets a C for this year's draft. Nothing spectacular; the first round pick eventually played and contributed, as did the 3rd round pick, but that was about it. No surprise players stepping up and contributing, no outright busts (but Perkins has to be the lead concern for that). I want players taken on the first day that make a difference on this team. The second day guys may or may not be decent, but that's where Savage had better earn his stripes, not on the first day. ----------And that is how you talk sports.

 
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TE:

Irons will probably stick. Shea will probably leave. No need for more FA's at this spot.

And that is how you talk sports.
What about that one guy...Oh yea, Kellen Winslow?

:motorcycle:

 
:goodposting: Except for the arrogant finish. :D I projected Winston Justice to the Browns in a mock. But, I have to change that.This article makes a pretty convincing case for them addressing the defense.They seem to be content with LJ Shelton at LT. A nose tackle and a pass rusher seem like the higher priorities.
Savage and Crennel agree the Browns must get better on run defense and they must find a pass rusher. The Browns finished 30th in rush yardage allowed per game and 30th in sacks per game. That is a horrible combination.
 
:goodposting:

Except for the arrogant finish. :D

I projected Winston Justice to the Browns in a mock. But, I have to change that.

This article makes a pretty convincing case for them addressing the defense.

They seem to be content with LJ Shelton at LT. A nose tackle and a pass rusher seem like the higher priorities.

Savage and Crennel agree the Browns must get better on run defense and they must find a pass rusher. The Browns finished 30th in rush yardage allowed per game and 30th in sacks per game. That is a horrible combination.
:D Hey, I'm not being arrogant - I didn't write it! I'm just marveling at people who spend that much time breaking down game-film.Ooh I hope Shelton isn't our starting LT in 2006. Bad things, man. Bad things. I'd prefer to address the DL in free agency because it seems to be a position that is easier to build going that route. But right now yeah I'd suspect something DL in round 1 and OL in round 2. But we've got so much cap room right now that they can dramatically alter the club with free agents. \

I see a "total makeover" coming this offseason, which should be pretty entertaining in itself!

 
TE:

Irons will probably stick. Shea will probably leave. No need for more FA's at this spot.

And that is how you talk sports.
What about that one guy...Oh yea, Kellen Winslow?

:motorcycle:
There is nothing to report about him in a discussion about the 05 campaign since his status remained unchanged all year - rehabbing. :shrug:
 
Well the good news is you have about $30 million to spend on free agency so I guess some ex-Patroits will be coming over soon.
The rest of America thanks you in advance. :thumbup:
 
I look at the team and see potential, but not much there for '06 unless Edwards is back strong. Frye/Dilfer - you have to hope Frye wins it in camp, but competition is the way to go for now. Frye looked god when he played, but is he ready to completely take over? (IMO, yes, but time will tell) :bye: WillieYou don't build your team with other teams' castaways. FA is for fixing a hole or two, not to drastically alter the team. Grady Jackson would be an interesting signing, probably a good one. After him, I wouldn't do much in FA.

 
When I look at the Browns I pretty much see an expansion team. They have no core players, no-one you can definitely build around. They are below average at every position on the field. It will probably take a couple more years to truly get competitive, and that's if they make the correct moves.

 
I really think Cleveland is doing things right. There getting a nice young core of players in there system and they're taking it step by step. You could see the confidence the team looked like they had last year even when they were the underdog. It might take 2 years but this is a franchise to watch out for. It's really sorry what happened to B. Edwards, he was really starting to come into his own. I think realistic expectations for '06 are about 7-9 but the following year watch out.

 
I really think Cleveland is doing things right. There getting a nice young core of players in there system and they're taking it step by step. You could see the confidence the team looked like they had last year even when they were the underdog. It might take 2 years but this is a franchise to watch out for. It's really sorry what happened to B. Edwards, he was really starting to come into his own. I think realistic expectations for '06 are about 7-9 but the following year watch out.
I disagree on the core players. They have none. Edwards has proven nothing and has blown out his knee, which means he may not ever be the player we thought we were getting at that spot in the draft. We can't be counted as anything. Same for Winslow. Frye looked very shaky as the season ended. Andre Davis really isn't a core player, either. There is nothing here.
 
For those of you in and around the Cleveland area...Art Modell will be on Cleveland radio this afternoon for the first time since 1995. He'll be on Mike Trivisonno's show (WTAM 1100am) at 5:30 today.

 
Agreed on DL/OL/LB being huge priorities. what's your take on the situation at safety (not covered in your post). Sean Jones has not been the player that everyone hoped he would be since his knee injury. Brian Russell is an adequate starter at best. Chris Crocker come up with some big plays, but is on the small side. A 2nd rounder was spent on Brodney Pool, and I think they are probably hoping he'll win a starting job in camp next year.

 
Please god let Bryant move on and don't let any of my free agent keepers go to the Browns. Thanking you in advance, TD.The Browns like many have QB issues which I don't believe will be resolved in the near future. They should have kept Holcomb.

 
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Please god let Bryant move on and don't let any of my free agent keepers go to the Browns. Thanking you in advance, TD.

The Browns like many have QB issues which I don't believe will be resolved in the near future. They should have kept Holcomb.
Holcomb?? :eek:
 
This team has so many holes to fill I can't imagine where they'll start. Their top two playmakers probably won't be 100% any time soon. Their O-line has just been horrid for years, as has the D-line. Tough to win games in the NFL when you are being dominated on the LOS.

 
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This team has so many holes to fill I can't imagine where they'll start. They O-line has just been horrid for years, as has the D-line. Tough to win games in the NFL when you are being dominated on the LOS.
They're like swiss cheese - it's supposed to that way!Don't forget shut off the basement light when you leave or if you leave...

 
They should have kept Holcomb.
:lmao:
Whats really funny is he is better than any hack they have on the roster.
Wow, and I thought that the people that posted here actually watched football.
You can honestly say Dilfer or Frye is better right now than Holcomb.
Holcomb is doing exactly what Holcomb does. Comes off the bench and plays a few good games. If you rely on him as a starter (which has already been done), he will falter AND get hurt.This is old news. I can safely say with no doubt in my mind that the Browns should not have kept Holcomb. And yes, I'd rather have Frye.

 
This team has so many holes to fill I can't imagine where they'll start. Their top two playmakers probably won't be 100% any time soon. Their O-line has just been horrid for years, as has the D-line. Tough to win games in the NFL when you are being dominated on the LOS.
As bad as the O-line is, it's a lot better than it has been in years. Thus, Droughns going over 1100 yards. It still needs work.
 
Would anyone be surprised if Green or Suggs is a draft day trade for a late pick?

I would think Romeo will get some 'backers in this esp good Lber draft.

Rich Gosselin of Dallas Morning News was talking about a Tech RB that he called one of the best pass catching backs in a long while, not the best runner but...something along those lines. I could see Romeo wanting a Meggett or Faulk as that what he's used to. Is this RB that kinda back? You guys would know the college guys better than me

Taurean Henderson was his name

 
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Hmmm. Wonder if the Ravens would trade a fifth-rounder for Green. They loved him the year he was drafted and were a little disappointed to "settle" for Ed Reed. Plus, I'm sure Savage and Ozzie would be happy to deal with each other.

Though now that I think about it, I doubt anyone would want to trade for Green at his current contract. Let the Browns cut him, and then snap him up for close to veteran minimum.

The Ravens' draft philosophy was that the most important players to draft were ones that touched the football or ones that touched the QB (i.e., pass rushers on defense). Kind of ironic that their greatest draft ever violated that rule by netting them Ogden and Ray Lewis. But I wonder if that will be a guiding principle for Savage.

 
Would anyone be surprised if Green or Suggs is a draft day trade for a late pick?

I would think Romeo will get some 'backers in this esp good Lber draft.

Rich Gosselin of Dallas Morning News was talking about a Tech RB that he called one of the best pass catching backs in a long while, not the best runner but...something along those lines. I could see Romeo wanting a Meggett or Faulk as that what he's used to. Is this RB that kinda back? You guys would know the college guys better than me

Taurean Henderson was his name
The only one with some value is Suggs.No one wants Green he shouyld retire or go to the CFL.

Suggs actually , besides is injury showed good things in 2004.

Last year was a write off for him. You never know Arizona might be interested in Suggs.

 
Huge signings this weekend for the Brownies. If they can somehow add Arrington (long shot), they become contenders in my opinion. With the draft coming up, I see a lot of defense being selected. I'm hoping they can get a couple of LBs and DEs to fill in the gaps. Should be a MUCH improved team this coming season.

 
Huge signings this weekend for the Brownies.  If they can somehow add Arrington (long shot), they become contenders in my opinion.  With the draft coming up, I see a lot of defense being selected.  I'm hoping they can get a couple of LBs and DEs to fill in the gaps.  Should be a MUCH improved team this coming season.
Contenders for .500 or the playoffs? Arrington would be a huge addition but he doesn't seem interested in the Cleveland. Definitely the Browns have improved their team but outside of Bentley they've added primarily complimentary players. Their QB is still Chuck or Trent, they still lack playmakers on D and their top two playmakers on O are rehabbing injuries. I think 8-8 would be optimistic in 2006.
 
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Huge signings this weekend for the Brownies. If they can somehow add Arrington (long shot), they become contenders in my opinion. With the draft coming up, I see a lot of defense being selected. I'm hoping they can get a couple of LBs and DEs to fill in the gaps. Should be a MUCH improved team this coming season.
Contenders for .500 or the playoffs? Arrington would be a huge addition but he doesn't seem interested in the Cleveland. Definitely the Browns have improved their team but outside of Bentley they've added primarily complimentary players. Their QB is still Chuck or Trent, they still lack playmakers on D and their top two playmakers on O are rehabbing injuries. I think 8-8 would be optimistic in 2006.
They went 6-10 last year without Winslow at all, Edwards being a rookie / injured, Chuck being a rookie. They added Bentley and Shaffer is a solid starter. I can see 8-8, but if they can pull another game out to go 9-7, that could contend for the playoffs.
 
Huge signings this weekend for the Brownies. If they can somehow add Arrington (long shot), they become contenders in my opinion. With the draft coming up, I see a lot of defense being selected. I'm hoping they can get a couple of LBs and DEs to fill in the gaps. Should be a MUCH improved team this coming season.
Contenders for .500 or the playoffs? Arrington would be a huge addition but he doesn't seem interested in the Cleveland. Definitely the Browns have improved their team but outside of Bentley they've added primarily complimentary players. Their QB is still Chuck or Trent, they still lack playmakers on D and their top two playmakers on O are rehabbing injuries. I think 8-8 would be optimistic in 2006.
They went 6-10 last year without Winslow at all, Edwards being a rookie / injured, Chuck being a rookie. They added Bentley and Shaffer is a solid starter. I can see 8-8, but if they can pull another game out to go 9-7, that could contend for the playoffs.
The AFC has too many quality teams for a 9-7 team to make the playoffs. Bentley signing was great, overpaid for Shaffer, and I wouldn't be counting on Winslow if I was a Browns fan. Edwards is gonna be a good one, but I think they must start Frye this yr and see if he is the franchise qb for yrs to come. I'm not sold on Crennel has a HC, but I think Savage is a pretty good. Also don't underestimate the signing of JJ.
 
Huge signings this weekend for the Brownies.  If they can somehow add Arrington (long shot), they become contenders in my opinion.  With the draft coming up, I see a lot of defense being selected.  I'm hoping they can get a couple of LBs and DEs to fill in the gaps.  Should be a MUCH improved team this coming season.
Contenders for .500 or the playoffs? Arrington would be a huge addition but he doesn't seem interested in the Cleveland. Definitely the Browns have improved their team but outside of Bentley they've added primarily complimentary players. Their QB is still Chuck or Trent, they still lack playmakers on D and their top two playmakers on O are rehabbing injuries. I think 8-8 would be optimistic in 2006.
They went 6-10 last year without Winslow at all, Edwards being a rookie / injured, Chuck being a rookie. They added Bentley and Shaffer is a solid starter. I can see 8-8, but if they can pull another game out to go 9-7, that could contend for the playoffs.
The AFC has too many quality teams for a 9-7 team to make the playoffs. Bentley signing was great, overpaid for Shaffer, and I wouldn't be counting on Winslow if I was a Browns fan. Edwards is gonna be a good one, but I think they must start Frye this yr and see if he is the franchise qb for yrs to come. I'm not sold on Crennel has a HC, but I think Savage is a pretty good. Also don't underestimate the signing of JJ.
The schedule is much tougher next year for all the teams in the AFC North. They get paired with the AFC West and NFC South. The Browns are still behind the Bengals and Steelers in overall talent. 9-7 is a lot to ask.
 
The AFC has too many quality teams for a 9-7 team to make the playoffs. Bentley signing was great, overpaid for Shaffer, and I wouldn't be counting on Winslow if I was a Browns fan. Edwards is gonna be a good one, but I think they must start Frye this yr and see if he is the franchise qb for yrs to come. I'm not sold on Crennel has a HC, but I think Savage is a pretty good. Also don't underestimate the signing of JJ.
Overpaid for Shaffer? :no: NFL average of the top five salaries at OT = $6.98 million. Browns signed Shaffer for around $5 million per year. How is that overpaying?

 
with the upgrades they are making, 2nd year in the system, continued groth of the rookies, 8-8 seems a mortal lock to me

AFC West and NFC South are good conferences but they could easily split those games, NO and ATL plus SD and OAK could be wins

I guess we will see

edit to add:

Home wins: BAL, CIN, NO, NYJ

Road wins: BAL, OAK, SD, ATL, HOU

my reasoning is this

Baltimore has been sliding anyway they are just worse than CLE now

We played Cincy close last year, this year we split

NO sucks

Jets sucks

Oak sucks

SD without Brees will struggle mightily

ATL and Vick are not as scary anymore

HOU sucks

Its not out of the realm that they could pick up additional wins as well over TB and KC at home especially if they are December games.

 
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with the upgrades they are making, 2nd year in the system, continued groth of the rookies, 8-8 seems a mortal lock to me

AFC West and NFC South are good conferences but they could easily split those games, NO and ATL plus SD and OAK could be wins

I guess we will see
:goodposting: We easily lost 2 games last year because of our damn PUNTER.

Bentley GREATLY increases the O-line and makes the running game that much better. IF Winslow does SOMETHING this year, coupled with with the continued improvements of Frye and Edwards, 8-8 should be doable.

Hopefully, the defense gets inproved and does better this year.

 
CLEVELAND BROWNS-Traded S Chris Crocker to the Atlanta Falcons for a 2006 fourth-round draft pick. Signed TE Darnell Dinkins.

 
I guess we will see

Home wins: BAL

Road wins: BAL
bring it, meatyou can have our GM, overpaid corner, b/u TE and punter all you want

NFW to 2W's vs the Blackbirds... :no:

oh...and I'll take the points w/KC in that home DEC game---have you hit your head? it isn't like Kansas City is in SFla--they can handle the Clev weather, for sure

that said....

"trust in Savage"

the guy has and will continue to build a solid squad--Rome wasn't built in a day---that bunch of rag-tags you had were awful

I'm not sure who was mentioning Savage draft (gave him a "C")...wait until the 3rd draft before you go tossing around C's...last I checked, there were a couple 1st round D-linemen from a few years ago given away for a bag of practice balls, so I'd say you're already WAY ahead of the game

Savage will concentrate on bringing in quality men, who play alittle football...you'll like this team for a long time, trust me--I miss that guy alot!

 
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I guess we will see

edit to add:

Home wins: BAL, CIN, NO, NYJ

Road wins: BAL, OAK, SD, ATL, HOU

my reasoning is this

Baltimore has been sliding anyway they are just worse than CLE now

We played Cincy close last year, this year we split

NO sucks

Jets sucks

Oak sucks

SD without Brees will struggle mightily

ATL and Vick are not as scary anymore

HOU sucks
I admire your optimism but realistically it's very unlikely that the Browns will go 5-3 on the road in 2006. Over the past two years they've won only three road games. The same games that you are chalking up as wins are being chalked up by Browns' opponents fans' for the very same reasons.
 
I guess we will see

edit to add:

Home wins: BAL, CIN, NO, NYJ

Road wins: BAL, OAK, SD, ATL, HOU

my reasoning is this

Baltimore has been sliding anyway they are just worse than CLE now

We played Cincy close last year, this year we split

NO sucks

Jets sucks

Oak sucks

SD without Brees will struggle mightily

ATL and Vick are not as scary anymore

HOU sucks
I admire your optimism but realistically it's very unlikely that the Browns will go 5-3 on the road in 2006. Over the past two years they've won only three road games. The same games that you are chalking up as wins are being chalked up by Browns' opponents fans' for the very same reasons.
Two of those three were last year buddy. I like to see 100% improvement year over year. :P Seriously, part of the reason they were so bad on the road has been corrected IMO.

Aside from the one Pitt game, look how they played teams making the playoffs last year.

 
CLEVELAND BROWNS-Traded S Chris Crocker to the Atlanta Falcons for a 2006 fourth-round draft pick. Signed TE Darnell Dinkins.
Another good move. That's good value for a guy that wouldn't have started for the Browns in '06. Plus, you've got two young safeties as it is that need to be worked in and CB is fine. I'm suprised they signed a TE at this point.

 
CLEVELAND BROWNS-Traded S Chris Crocker to the Atlanta Falcons for a 2006 fourth-round draft pick. Signed TE Darnell Dinkins.
Another good move. That's good value for a guy that wouldn't have started for the Browns in '06. Plus, you've got two young safeties as it is that need to be worked in and CB is fine. I'm suprised they signed a TE at this point.
Why surprised about a TE signing? Winslow is starting but how does he return? Heiden is #2 man. They lost Shea so they needed a #3 and Dinkens is a very good special teamer in addition. Excellent pickup really.
 
WR:Bryant will be a decent WR if given another good WR on the other side of the field. Don't expect Edwards to be [ the #1 WR ] next year though, and KW2 might not be fully healthy either by the time TC starts. IMO the Browns need another quality WR to start, especially if Edwards won't be ready (likely) and KW2 is still rehabbing (also likely). Northcutt isn't the guy.
I don't understand why you don't think Edwards will do well. Yes, he will be a second year, and the infection kept him out some games last year, be he has potential of being the No 1. What have you seen that makes you think he will not do well, please share, I don't follow the Browns too closely.
 
The AFC has too many quality teams for a 9-7 team to make the playoffs. Bentley signing was great, overpaid for Shaffer, and I wouldn't be counting on Winslow if I was a Browns fan. Edwards is gonna be a good one, but I think they must start Frye this yr and see if he is the franchise qb for yrs to come. I'm not sold on Crennel has a HC, but I think Savage is a pretty good. Also don't underestimate the signing of JJ.
Overpaid for Shaffer? :no: NFL average of the top five salaries at OT = $6.98 million. Browns signed Shaffer for around $5 million per year. How is that overpaying?
Are you claiming that Shaffer is a top 5 OT?
 
CLEVELAND BROWNS-Traded S Chris Crocker to the Atlanta Falcons for a 2006 fourth-round draft pick. Signed TE Darnell Dinkins.
Another good move. That's good value for a guy that wouldn't have started for the Browns in '06. Plus, you've got two young safeties as it is that need to be worked in and CB is fine. I'm suprised they signed a TE at this point.
Why surprised about a TE signing? Winslow is starting but how does he return? Heiden is #2 man. They lost Shea so they needed a #3 and Dinkens is a very good special teamer in addition. Excellent pickup really.
from what i've read he'll play primarily on special teams.
 
CLEVELAND BROWNS-Traded S Chris Crocker to the Atlanta Falcons for a 2006 fourth-round draft pick. Signed TE Darnell Dinkins.
Another good move. That's good value for a guy that wouldn't have started for the Browns in '06. Plus, you've got two young safeties as it is that need to be worked in and CB is fine. I'm suprised they signed a TE at this point.
Why surprised about a TE signing? Winslow is starting but how does he return? Heiden is #2 man. They lost Shea so they needed a #3 and Dinkens is a very good special teamer in addition. Excellent pickup really.
from what i've read he'll play primarily on special teams.
Not suprised, I suppose, since they do need a #3. Was hoping for Mustard to come back. And I guess they didn't think much of Irons or that other guy that was in camp last year. I don't know much about Dinkens.
 

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