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Browns @ Packers Game Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LawFitz
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Weeden is playing well. Aaron Rodgers looked sharp in the 1st quarter but Graham Harrell looks terrible. Almost all Harrell's passes were behind the GB receivers.
sho nuff
Footballguy
NFL Network replaying it at 11pm CST I believe.
Rodgers running b/c of pressure or by design?
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Kinda watching both games at once so I wasn't playing close attention. I think it was a little of both.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Browns fan.
Defense: The young DT's are holding their own. The young secondary looks good. Johnson, the rookie LB is always around the ball. It's hard to look great against Rodgers, but these young guys did a nice job. Ton of injuries forced a lot of rookies into the lineup.
The offense is playing a ton of 1st/2nd year players and it shows. Way out of sync on half the plays. Hardesty has a bit of burst back and looks way better than last season. Little looks much better. He has a grasp of the offense and is able to find the holes in the zone. Gordon is lost right now, but seriously, what did you expect? Schwartz looks a bit lost as well, but when he is able to line up and smash, he looks ok. Overall, I'd say the young guys on offense just need reps.
Weeden. Mixed review. The game is not too fast for him, but I've noticed that he locks onto a WR a bit too much. I'm not sure where we're at statistically, but when I heard 3 for 8 earlier, I kind of laughed. Trust me, he wasn't that bad. A lot of bad routes, miscommunications, etc.
Defense: The young DT's are holding their own. The young secondary looks good. Johnson, the rookie LB is always around the ball. It's hard to look great against Rodgers, but these young guys did a nice job. Ton of injuries forced a lot of rookies into the lineup.
The offense is playing a ton of 1st/2nd year players and it shows. Way out of sync on half the plays. Hardesty has a bit of burst back and looks way better than last season. Little looks much better. He has a grasp of the offense and is able to find the holes in the zone. Gordon is lost right now, but seriously, what did you expect? Schwartz looks a bit lost as well, but when he is able to line up and smash, he looks ok. Overall, I'd say the young guys on offense just need reps.
Weeden. Mixed review. The game is not too fast for him, but I've noticed that he locks onto a WR a bit too much. I'm not sure where we're at statistically, but when I heard 3 for 8 earlier, I kind of laughed. Trust me, he wasn't that bad. A lot of bad routes, miscommunications, etc.
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GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Rodgers read the pressure, the Browns secondary did a nice job in coverage.
Abspara
Footballguy
Awesome news.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Green Bay should be offering a 4th up for McCoy tomorrow. Harrell is horrible.
smackdaddies
Footballguy
local radio guys are making it sound half terrible passing, half terrible recieving
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Jordan Cameron? Is he out with the sore back? I see Moore has been targeted a few times...
DesmondBishop
Footballguy
As I stated in another thread the other day, Harrell will never be a good QB, he is inaccurate and he has a weak arm. Which is exactly why I wanted Coleman in earlier so we could get some idea if this kid can play.
For those suggesting we need McCoy, he also has a weak arm, and in our offense, our QB has to be able to put some zip on the ball, Colt may be more accurate, but the same issues would be there with him at QB.
For those suggesting we need McCoy, he also has a weak arm, and in our offense, our QB has to be able to put some zip on the ball, Colt may be more accurate, but the same issues would be there with him at QB.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
According to Jason Wilde on the radio today the Packers really like Harrell. Didn't show much tonight though. I really doubt they deal for McCoy.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Harrell reminds me of Tim Tebow without power, determination and the ability to perform under pressure.
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
yes Cameron is out as were MoMass and Benjamin.
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Green Bay should be embarrassed. Upset with their play at San Diego you'd think they would give a better effort at home against lowly Cleveland.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
On NFLN at the top of the hour.
smackdaddies
Footballguy
eh. It's preseason.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah, they've lost what two games out of their last 22 or 23, something like that?
Pipes
Footballguy
I'd syay it was more like 90% Harrell. He was inaccurate all night.
cr8f
Footballguy
Not yet.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Its preseason so the game itself is meaningless but the take-aways for the Browns is the development of rookies, especially the rookies and young players who they might have to rely on.
Higher drafted Rookies
RB Trent Richardson - OUT nothing new to report
QB Brandon Weeden - Improved from his first game. Lead four scoring drives, connected on some nice throws. He made a noticeable improvement from the first game but in this game the O-line was getting push and that lead to the rushing attack moving the ball which allowed play action to develop. Key takeaway - noticeable improvement from the first game and that is what you want to see from rookies. Many NFL personnel types say to watch for improvement from the first preseason game to the second for rookies and we saw a clear imrovement in Weeden from preseason game-one to game-two.
OT Mitchell Schwartz - Improved from his first game. Mitchell's college resume shows a guy who isn't uber athletic but a hard worker so a shaky first game wasn't too concerning. His modus operendi would be to look overmatched at first until he begins to pick up the technical aspects of playing in the NFL where his hard work and toughness can eventually shine as he gets up to speed. A noticeable improvement from the first game, a very good sign.
DT John Hughes - Was a suprise third round pick and the original idea when he was drafted was to have him as depth in a rotation with Phil Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin but Taylor tore a pec so the kid has been getting lots of reps and he actually looked ok in the first game. Last night he looked a little better than the first game. He gets penetration and shows strength and brings down runners. Probably not a pass rush threat but was getting push on the pocket. Good first game and improvement last night.
WR Travis Benjamin - OUT last night after a solid first preseason game.
WR Josh Gordon - Looked awful the first preseason game. Had to show a marked improvement last night and he did. He made two nice catches and ran those routes with focus and got separation. Josh looked so bad the first game that any improvement would be noticed but last night he looked like he belongs. I would still caution away from the idea that he is ready to start right now but their are two more preseason games. He could show improvement but right now with WR Mohammed Massquoi and WR Travis Benjamin dinged he is getting lots of first-team reps and last night he made plays and produced. The exciting thing about Gordon is envisioning the time when the light bulb truly goes on and everything comes naturally then it is enticing to think what he could do opposite of an improving player like WR Greg Little.
------------------------------
Young players
QB Colt McCoy - Had another solid preseason game. He looks comfortable in the pocket, he also benefited by a solid rushing attack. Last year he was running for his life, he had no rushing attack, he only had Greg Little at WR and Little was a rookie who hadn't played in a year. He was dealing with his third OC in three years and last year he didn't have an offseason or OTAs and he had to learn the WCO on the fly with the rest of the offense. He truly did not have a chance last year. This year he's working with the second unit but he's been looking solid. I see absolutely no reason to trade away Colt McCoy, NONE, ZERO. NFL teams need two good QBs and the way that McCoy is playing he is someone who can do more than hold the fort if Weeden goes down.
RB Monterio Hardesty - Solid game. He looked ok in the first game but outside of the first carry fumble he was solid all around. He took what his line gave him and although he wasn't explosive and didn't show elite speed he shows good vision and pad level and drive. He can be very capable if Trent Richardson needs a blow or if he needs extra time to recuperate from his carteledge clean up.
WR Greg Little - Showed a big imrpovement from game-one to game-two but he had a trademark G-Little drop of a perfectly thrown pass. Maddening in that aspect but he looks very good. He will be the clear cut #1 WR for the Browns and he will be productive.
TE Jordan Cameron - OUT Had a sensational first game but came down hard on his back so no surpise he was out this game.
OG Shuan Lauvao - Looked putrid the first game so he set the bar soo low he had to show an improvemetn in last nights game and he did. I've been really hard on Lauvao for good reason but last night he showed that he can be part of solid line play so long as he's not put on ice skates in pass protection and playing Ndmamukong Suh. He's the weakest link on a solid offensive line but if the running game is going and the Browns aren't playing from behind then Lauvao won't be noticed and last night he wasn't getting torn apart so he wasn't noticed.
FS Eric Hagg - Had a solid first preseason game and looked solid last night. He may not post huge numbers but he looks like he belongs.
WR Mohammed Massaquoi - OUT Looked good for the one catch he had last week where he got a concussion. He's had a solid camp but he has a history of concussions. If he's healthy he will make plays but he's one-hit away from being on the sidelines so the rookies playing behind him will probably get a shot sooner rather than later.
-----------------------------------------------
Lower drafted rookies who stood out
LB James Michael Johnson - Last week four of the Browns front seen were OUT with injuries and the replacements were a mess so JMJ's first game was awful but he wasn't the only one, everyone in the front seven looked bad outside of DT John Hughes and possibly Fujita but Scott looked old and slow. JMJ is young, he has some speed and explosion that was sorely lacking last year. Camp reports have been glowing but he looked lost in the first game so the improvement he showed last night was very encouraging. He could not only take over for LB Scott Fujita for the first three games on the strong side (suspension) but is he keeps playing well he could be in the mix to take over for IRed LB Chris Gocong. This is a player worth keeping an eye on for IDP leagues.
CB Trevin Wade - This kid looked good last week and he looked good this week. He's not a starter and isn't a threat to start but he looks very good when he's in there with the second and third units. He's suprised me.
FB Brad Smelly - Looked good first game as a receiver and last night he looked good as a blocker. I like him.
============================
Biggest take-aways
Marked and noticeable improvements from the first to second preseason games for:
QB Brandon Weeden
RB Monterio Hardesty
WR Gregg Little
Improvement but still needs to show more:
WR Josh Gordon
Higher drafted Rookies
RB Trent Richardson - OUT nothing new to report
QB Brandon Weeden - Improved from his first game. Lead four scoring drives, connected on some nice throws. He made a noticeable improvement from the first game but in this game the O-line was getting push and that lead to the rushing attack moving the ball which allowed play action to develop. Key takeaway - noticeable improvement from the first game and that is what you want to see from rookies. Many NFL personnel types say to watch for improvement from the first preseason game to the second for rookies and we saw a clear imrovement in Weeden from preseason game-one to game-two.
OT Mitchell Schwartz - Improved from his first game. Mitchell's college resume shows a guy who isn't uber athletic but a hard worker so a shaky first game wasn't too concerning. His modus operendi would be to look overmatched at first until he begins to pick up the technical aspects of playing in the NFL where his hard work and toughness can eventually shine as he gets up to speed. A noticeable improvement from the first game, a very good sign.
DT John Hughes - Was a suprise third round pick and the original idea when he was drafted was to have him as depth in a rotation with Phil Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin but Taylor tore a pec so the kid has been getting lots of reps and he actually looked ok in the first game. Last night he looked a little better than the first game. He gets penetration and shows strength and brings down runners. Probably not a pass rush threat but was getting push on the pocket. Good first game and improvement last night.
WR Travis Benjamin - OUT last night after a solid first preseason game.
WR Josh Gordon - Looked awful the first preseason game. Had to show a marked improvement last night and he did. He made two nice catches and ran those routes with focus and got separation. Josh looked so bad the first game that any improvement would be noticed but last night he looked like he belongs. I would still caution away from the idea that he is ready to start right now but their are two more preseason games. He could show improvement but right now with WR Mohammed Massquoi and WR Travis Benjamin dinged he is getting lots of first-team reps and last night he made plays and produced. The exciting thing about Gordon is envisioning the time when the light bulb truly goes on and everything comes naturally then it is enticing to think what he could do opposite of an improving player like WR Greg Little.
------------------------------
Young players
QB Colt McCoy - Had another solid preseason game. He looks comfortable in the pocket, he also benefited by a solid rushing attack. Last year he was running for his life, he had no rushing attack, he only had Greg Little at WR and Little was a rookie who hadn't played in a year. He was dealing with his third OC in three years and last year he didn't have an offseason or OTAs and he had to learn the WCO on the fly with the rest of the offense. He truly did not have a chance last year. This year he's working with the second unit but he's been looking solid. I see absolutely no reason to trade away Colt McCoy, NONE, ZERO. NFL teams need two good QBs and the way that McCoy is playing he is someone who can do more than hold the fort if Weeden goes down.
RB Monterio Hardesty - Solid game. He looked ok in the first game but outside of the first carry fumble he was solid all around. He took what his line gave him and although he wasn't explosive and didn't show elite speed he shows good vision and pad level and drive. He can be very capable if Trent Richardson needs a blow or if he needs extra time to recuperate from his carteledge clean up.
WR Greg Little - Showed a big imrpovement from game-one to game-two but he had a trademark G-Little drop of a perfectly thrown pass. Maddening in that aspect but he looks very good. He will be the clear cut #1 WR for the Browns and he will be productive.
TE Jordan Cameron - OUT Had a sensational first game but came down hard on his back so no surpise he was out this game.
OG Shuan Lauvao - Looked putrid the first game so he set the bar soo low he had to show an improvemetn in last nights game and he did. I've been really hard on Lauvao for good reason but last night he showed that he can be part of solid line play so long as he's not put on ice skates in pass protection and playing Ndmamukong Suh. He's the weakest link on a solid offensive line but if the running game is going and the Browns aren't playing from behind then Lauvao won't be noticed and last night he wasn't getting torn apart so he wasn't noticed.
FS Eric Hagg - Had a solid first preseason game and looked solid last night. He may not post huge numbers but he looks like he belongs.
WR Mohammed Massaquoi - OUT Looked good for the one catch he had last week where he got a concussion. He's had a solid camp but he has a history of concussions. If he's healthy he will make plays but he's one-hit away from being on the sidelines so the rookies playing behind him will probably get a shot sooner rather than later.
-----------------------------------------------
Lower drafted rookies who stood out
LB James Michael Johnson - Last week four of the Browns front seen were OUT with injuries and the replacements were a mess so JMJ's first game was awful but he wasn't the only one, everyone in the front seven looked bad outside of DT John Hughes and possibly Fujita but Scott looked old and slow. JMJ is young, he has some speed and explosion that was sorely lacking last year. Camp reports have been glowing but he looked lost in the first game so the improvement he showed last night was very encouraging. He could not only take over for LB Scott Fujita for the first three games on the strong side (suspension) but is he keeps playing well he could be in the mix to take over for IRed LB Chris Gocong. This is a player worth keeping an eye on for IDP leagues.
CB Trevin Wade - This kid looked good last week and he looked good this week. He's not a starter and isn't a threat to start but he looks very good when he's in there with the second and third units. He's suprised me.
FB Brad Smelly - Looked good first game as a receiver and last night he looked good as a blocker. I like him.
============================
Biggest take-aways
Marked and noticeable improvements from the first to second preseason games for:
QB Brandon Weeden
RB Monterio Hardesty
WR Gregg Little
Improvement but still needs to show more:
WR Josh Gordon
Nothing on Nelson's performance last night?
On the first drive he blew by Joe Haden for a wide open TD opportunity. Haden wasn't within 7 yards of him. Rodgers somehow overthrew the pass.
Literally two plays later they run the same play. Haden keeps up with Nelson but Jordy jumps over him to snatch the ball.
That second play was exactly like the catch Julio had over the Ravens - everyone went nuts and Julio is number 2 in roto's WR rankings now ... yet no bump for the white boy.
What gives? He's a beast. Last year wasn't a fluke.
On the first drive he blew by Joe Haden for a wide open TD opportunity. Haden wasn't within 7 yards of him. Rodgers somehow overthrew the pass.
Literally two plays later they run the same play. Haden keeps up with Nelson but Jordy jumps over him to snatch the ball.
That second play was exactly like the catch Julio had over the Ravens - everyone went nuts and Julio is number 2 in roto's WR rankings now ... yet no bump for the white boy.
What gives? He's a beast. Last year wasn't a fluke.
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A little different. Last week Julio had 6/109/1 in the first quarter. Last night Jordy had 1/20/1. On the first pass, It looked like Haden thought he was going to have safety help over the top (he moved up to cut off the out and the opposite side of the field was clearly in zone coverage) but the safety moved to the middle of the field to cover the TE. I'm by no means an expert in reading defenses, but that play seemed more of a defensive miscue than Nelson purely beating Haden.The 2nd pass, was good coverage, just a better play by Nelson.'meyerj31 said:
smackdaddies
Footballguy
re: Weeden - he moved the ball against the Packer starters, but not that much. After the Pack pulled most of their starters, Weeden played ok. Basically the game was 7-6 Packers when starters were in on both sides, then the Clev starters ran up the score on Packer rookies and FA's
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
This was a preseason game so it is meaningless other than whatever can be packaged up and taken away for the regular season going forward.We already know about Aarron Rodgers and company, we don't know about Weeden but your take is misleading.The score was 7-6 and the Pack got the ball after the very first snap when Hardesty fumbled giving Green Bay the ball inside the twenty five yardline of the Browns.Rodgers connected on one score, with excellent field position.Weeden lead longer scoring drives, four of them to be exact.This was his second preseason game, he's never had an NFL start, he showed noticeable improvement.Also some people have mentioned the Browns left their starters in during the second quarter, yup they did and their is a reason for that.Next week they face Philly and they face the 'Iggles' in the first week of the regular season. The third preseason game is typically when teams leave their starters in for two or three quarters and they might even try to install something of a game plan as a tune-up for the regular season opener.The Browns are not going to give the Eagles anything in next week's game and they won't give the Browns anything either so it was speculated that the Browns would leave their starters in for a longer period of time against Green Bay and they did. Mystery solved.No matter how you want to paint it, Weeden is a rookie QB who is going to start and he showed a noticeable improvement from his first preseason game to the second.
sho nuff
Footballguy
1st run was "pressure". In quotes because his hard count got the guy to jump offsides. Rodgers took off as soon as he saw the hole where the guy left his spot on the jump and others seemed to relax. Had he just kept dropping back, I think they could have blown it dead "unabated to the QB".'C-Bound said:
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well...Weeden's scoring drives were a 53 yard FG and another FG against the starters where GB coughed up the ball and gave them the field posession...GB held in 3 plays and Cleveland settled for the 2nd FG.The third again GB gave up the ball in their own zone when McCArthy went for it on 4th down...something he would not do in the regular season.And that possession was a mix of starters and backups (I think Matthews and Woodson were both out at this point).
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Not to be repetative but to clarify.The point about the Browns leaving in starters can't be explained any better so I won't bother but the point about Weeden's play needs to be underscored a bit.Brandon Weeden, zero NFL starts, making his second preseason start showed an improvement over his first NFL preseason game.That is the only thing of significance.Aarron Rodgers is the reigning NFL MVP and a Super Bowl winner so any sort of context with Rodgers to Weeden is meaningless.The thing of importance for Weeden is whether or not he showed a noticeable improvement in his play from his first preseason game to his second and he did.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Was clarifying the point you made about longer scoring drives.
Shutout
Footballguy
I'm liking what I'm seeing here. Last week I said I was ok with him looking lost because of the time he has been off, etc, and I think you had replied that it wasn't as nice as I had said (paraphrasing..you weren't as kind to him as I was).But, anyway, I think I am seeing the progression as you are describing it. AND, I'm liking Little at where he is compared to last year during the season. So, for me, I'm optimistic about the two together, the new QB, basically the whole thing. It a case where the sum of the parts coming together are greater than the whole. I'm seeing some room for growth. I DO think its one of those things where what we see 2 months from now will be starkly different than what we see now. I think there can be improvements in "leaps and bounds".'Bracie Smathers said:
Bracie, I believe you're a Brown homer correct? Watching the game last night, I starting to think that Little could be a 80/1000 guy. Thoughts?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The one aspect of Gordon that concerns me a 'lil' is the coaches have said something to the effect that they have to 'motivate' him or something similiar.That is something I don't like hearing about any player.
Having said that Josh is the youngest player on the team and he has been away from football for a long time and he came in with some baggage and missed OTAs and mini-camps since he wasn't drafted.
Being so yound and away from the game for as long as he has along with everything else, I tend to give someone with those circumstances a lot of leeway and Josh did make noticeable progress from game-one to game-two so I view that very positively.
Just right now I would not feel comfortable with him starting, especially since the Browns likely will have three rookies starting on offense, RB Trent Richardson, ORT Mitchell Schwartz, and QB Brandon Weeden.
It is possible that WR Travis Benjamin will start in the slot or be getting significant playing time.
Gordon will be in the mix but I don't know if starting him early would be of the best service to him or the team.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
He had 61 / 709 as a rookie, so I think 80 / 1000 would be within reach.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I'm sorry I didn't see this Mog.Yeah, I'd agree with Fallerjw and like rounded ballpark figures.
I'm sure if Little stays healthy he will put up some numbers.
The one thing I'm waiting on is for Weeden to connect on a deep throw and so far we haven't really seen him uncork anything.
Maybe they are keeping that on wraps for now.
If Little plays as well as he did last night and can cut down on those perfectly thrown, no-one within five yards of him, clear open path to extra yardage DROPS then he could exceed expectations.
Oh and I'd like to his get a couple of scores please.
smackdaddies
Footballguy
fair enough. Although from a FF standpoint, still not showing me anything to get me thinking he is draftable outside of start 2 or uber large leagues
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