Bush: Contract "must meet our expectations" (1 Viewer)

[thayman]

OK so let me get this straight.  You think Bush deserves no credit whatsoever, of getting corporations to donate things?  He is useing his marketability to leverage much needed help to a stricken area.  It sure didn't seem like Adidas or Hummer was going to give anything, until Bush came along. 

You do understand that don't you??

I understand that Bush is essentially a bystander in corporation effort to boost his esteem in the public eye, given that he has signed contracts with these corporations and they have seen his value diminished by his & his parents' in scamming free rent & $100,000 from a promotional company illegally while still playing at USC, as well as his #2 position in the draft because of his greed.There's nothing wrong with that - the corporations paid huge jack, I'd imagine, before the draft to get Bush on board with them, and they are protecting their investment while trying to boost his public image. That's what they're supposed to do, and that they take full advantage of high profile opportunities to do so is exactly what they should be doing - as they have done here. The great thing is that needy organizations gain from this.

But please don't be so naive to think that Bush orchestrated or was any kind of a driving influence on any of this. If you are, we may as well stop arguing, because I'll never convince you that Bush isn't ready for a halo over his helmet yet, and you'll never convince me that I can ignore all the evidence that Bush has a very questionable character and is out only for himself - and that this flaw in his character is likely to play out in his NFL career - if it ever gets underway, that is.

Enlighten me what is so questionable about his character? IF it ever gets underway? If you honestly belive that he won't play in the NFL at all ever, I have a real nice pyramid in Egypt that I'll sell to you cheap.

 

[thayman]

Having Deuce gives the Saints the option to play a bit of hardball on the salary issue.  Bush is working to endear himself to the community to give him some leverage in return.

Just wondering, Bush's donating 25% of jersey sales = how much money?

Last update I heard was 15,000 jersey sales so far. So a jersey is $75 I think. So that's $1,125,000 25% of that is $281,250 and counting.......

Bush is donating 25% of HIS portion of the royalties of jersey sales. That's hardly $18.75/jersey as you are so incorrectly averring here.Geez, some of you are trying awfully hard to get this guy cantonized & he hasn't even signed a contract to play in the NFL yet.

Ahh I did not know that it was his portion, thank you for clarifying. So he is donating so that is a pitiful $4.68 times 15,000= $70,200 of HIS money. Oh and that number is still going up......What an ### this Reggie Bush is he should be donating alot more of his personal money, in fact he should be considered scum of society until he finds a way to give 200% of his contract back to the needy.....

How do you get that his portion of the royalties is 25% of $18.75? Do you have a link as to what percentage his roylaties are on each jersey? I'd bet it's a lot less than you think, since the NFL controls all of its jersey sales.

The same as every other player. 6% of jersey sales. I didn't do the math when I saw your 18.75 so I think we had a miscommunication on that one......And honestly I'm not sure if he said he was giving 25% of total, or his portion of all sales, so I'll defer to you on that it is his take of the jersey sale pie.So if it is 25% of TOTAL SALES = $18.75 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

25% of HIS ROYALTIES = $1.50 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

15,000 jerseys pre-ordered at this point in time.

 

[P Boy]

Enlighten me what is so questionable about his character? IF it ever gets underway? If you honestly belive that he won't play in the NFL at all ever, I have a real nice pyramid in Egypt that I'll sell to you cheap.

I explained quite clearly earlier in this thread what is questionable about his character, and clearly re-emphasized that in my last response.And I didn't say he'll never play in the NFL - but I also know that he isn't signed yet & you can't tell me when he will play right now. I do know right now based upon what the Saints should be offering and based upon traditional draft slotting & percentage increases and what Bush's agent has publicly stated that he feels Bush's contract should be worth that the two sides are a long ways apart and if so that the differences aren't likely to resolved soon, or easily for that matter.

 

[T Man]

Bush is no "Saint", pardon the expression, but to ignore that he is doing something for the community (or to diminish it) is ridiculous.

You may argue he has an alternative motive - i.e., make himself look better so he can make more money on endorsements, but don't diminish what he is doing.

 

[P Boy]

The same as every other player. 6% of jersey sales. I didn't do the math when I saw your 18.75 so I think we had a miscommunication on that one......And honestly I'm not sure if he said he was giving 25% of total, or his portion of all sales, so I'll defer to you on that it is his take of the jersey sale pie.So if it is 25% of TOTAL SALES = $18.75 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.25% of HIS ROYALTIES = $1.50 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.15,000 jerseys pre-ordered at this point in time.

Okay, I'll take your word of the 6% that players get from the sales. I couldn't find documentation of it.So, Bush gets 6% of $75 per jersey, and he'll contribute 25% of that to charity.25% of 6% of 15,000 jerseys at $75 each amounts to $16,875. That's a far cry from the $200,000+ asserted earlier, and a mere pittance based upon a percentage of his earnings this year - if he gets signed. That's far less than a $400 charity write off by a family of 4 that earns $50,000 a year when considered proportionally.Again, trying to establish some facts and some sense of reason here for those trying to annoint Bush as the next coming.

 

[P Boy]

Bush is no "Saint", pardon the expression, but to ignore that he is doing something for the community (or to diminish it) is ridiculous.

You may argue he has an alternative motive - i.e., make himself look better so he can make more money on endorsements, but don't diminish what he is doing.

I don't diminish the action, but I certainly - and reasonably - question the motive, and well as his place & personal contribution in the chain of events.Let me make myself perfectly clear - Bush isn't doing this. Adidas is doing this on behalf of their paid proponent. Hummer is doing this on behalf of their paid proponent. Bush is donating a small amount of his own royalties from jersey sales, but he is doing nothing on his own to promote the sales of these jerseys other than being Reggie Bush.

To say that he is making all of these incredible acts of charity primarily through his own actions is nothing less than false.

 

[thayman]

The same as every other player.  6% of jersey sales.  I didn't do the math when I saw your 18.75 so I think we had a miscommunication on that one......And honestly I'm not sure if he said he was giving 25% of total, or his portion of all sales, so I'll defer to you on that it is his take of the jersey sale pie.

So if it is 25% of TOTAL SALES = $18.75 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

25% of HIS ROYALTIES = $1.50 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

15,000 jerseys pre-ordered at this point in time.

Okay, I'll take your word of the 6% that players get from the sales. I couldn't find documentation of it.So, Bush gets 6% of $75 per jersey, and he'll contribute 25% of that to charity.

25% of 6% of 15,000 jerseys at $75 each amounts to $16,875. That's a far cry from the $200,000+ asserted earlier, and a mere pittance based upon a percentage of his earnings this year - if he gets signed. That's far less than a $400 charity write off by a family of 4 that earns $50,000 a year when considered proportionally.

Again, trying to establish some facts and some sense of reason here for those trying to annoint Bush as the next coming.

I can't find anything on the 6% either. Just what I've heard when what does Michael Vick makes off of his jersey talk comes up. and yes $16,000+is a far cry from $200,000+ but it is going to rise. I can't find any link as to what the record (or average) jersey sales for a player is. I would assume his jersey sales are going to be on the higher side, so perhaps we could base the 25% of some thing in that neighborhood.But the kid is giving a ton to charity, and I don't think you can belittle or marganilize that even if he has had character flaws in the past (parent's house) he's doing some good now, and I like that. I would hope that it sets a bit of an example to future draftees as how to act when drafted.

And if I'm annoiting Bush as the second coming of Christ, then alot of other are annoiting him the second coming of the Devil.

 

[thayman]

Bush is no "Saint", pardon the expression, but to ignore that he is doing something for the community (or to diminish it) is ridiculous.

You may argue he has an alternative motive - i.e., make himself look better so he can make more money on endorsements, but don't diminish what he is doing.

I don't diminish the action, but I certainly - and reasonably - question the motive, and well as his place & personal contribution in the chain of events.

That's more philosophical debate though. One could say that there is no such thing as a selfless act, since by donating to charity you feel good about yourself, so it is fact a very selfish act.......

 

[Joe Bryant]

The same as every other player.  6% of jersey sales.  I didn't do the math when I saw your 18.75 so I think we had a miscommunication on that one......And honestly I'm not sure if he said he was giving 25% of total, or his portion of all sales, so I'll defer to you on that it is his take of the jersey sale pie.

So if it is 25% of TOTAL SALES = $18.75 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

25% of HIS ROYALTIES = $1.50 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

15,000 jerseys pre-ordered at this point in time.

Okay, I'll take your word of the 6% that players get from the sales. I couldn't find documentation of it.So, Bush gets 6% of $75 per jersey, and he'll contribute 25% of that to charity.

25% of 6% of 15,000 jerseys at $75 each amounts to $16,875. That's a far cry from the $200,000+ asserted earlier, and a mere pittance based upon a percentage of his earnings this year - if he gets signed. That's far less than a $400 charity write off by a family of 4 that earns $50,000 a year when considered proportionally.

Again, trying to establish some facts and some sense of reason here for those trying to annoint Bush as the next coming.

There is some merit to both sides of this.If Reggie Bush wants to give $100,000 to a Katrina fund, that's extremely cool. Good for him and I applaud that.

I will agree for sure though that a working guy making 50k per year and gives $400 is giving a much larger percantage of his income and on the "good" scale, his gift rates higher. And I'll admit it is frustrating that one guy gets made out to be a hero for his gift. And you never hear about the guy who made the "better" gift.

But I fall back to the final position that all gifts are good and most definitely better than not giving anything. So one should be happy with all the gifts.

I think it's more a media issue and what they choose to hype more than anything.

J

 

[P Boy]

But I fall back to the final position that all gifts are good and most definitely better than not giving anything. So one should be happy with all the gifts.

I think it's more a media issue and what they choose to hype more than anything.

J

I'll agree with that. Any gift of any size is a good gift, no question.I just wanted to put forth and emphasize that while a family of four giving $400 does so to not only benefit others but themselves in terms of good feelings & self esteem, Bush tangibly affects his own marketability by publicizing donations that he in fact did not give of his own accord - as do the companies donating in his name.

The gifts are great, no question. But some healthy sketicism should accompany what Bush has given so far, when some think it comes directly from his own pocket as averred to earlier when in fact it does not affect Bush's personal accounting one iota despite being given full credit for it.

That's nothing new. It happens all the time and is still a very good thing. Some just need to open their eyes a bit and see where the actual source is and what the motive is before attributing it as some proof that Bush is a great person, contrary to other evidence available.

 

[thayman]

But I fall back to the final position that all gifts are good and most definitely better than not giving anything. So one should be happy with all the gifts.

I think it's more a media issue and what they choose to hype more than anything.

J

I'll agree with that. Any gift of any size is a good gift, no question.I just wanted to put forth and emphasize that while a family of four giving $400 does so to not only benefit others but themselves in terms of good feelings & self esteem, Bush tangibly affects his own marketability by publicizing donations that he in fact did not give of his own accord - as do the companies donating in his name.

The gifts are great, no question. But some healthy sketicism should accompany what Bush has given so far, when some think it comes directly from his own pocket as averred to earlier when in fact it does not affect Bush's personal accounting one iota despite being given full credit for it.

That's nothing new. It happens all the time and is still a very good thing. Some just need to open their eyes a bit and see where the actual source is and what the motive is before attributing it as some proof that Bush is a great person, contrary to other evidence available.

Yeah but if you use that arguement to look at things, then no public figure can do anything ever to benefit anyone BUT themselves. You could just as easily fault the same family that donated the $400 because they claimed it on on their taxes next year.

 

[P Boy]

Yeah but if you use that arguement to look at things, then no public figure can do anything ever to benefit anyone BUT themselves.  You could just as easily fault the same family that donated the $400 because they claimed it on on their taxes next year.

I'll ask one more time, because I felt that I made my point. Apparently not.A public person, or anyone else, for that matter, can reach into their own pocket and scrape out some money that they themsleves earned directly through their own hard work, donate it to a charitable cause, and that would lend credence to an argument that he has a commendable character, or at least redeemable traits.When that same figure has someone else donate on their behalf, or donates money that they through no actions of their own became enriched, it says nothing about their character. It's still a good act, but says nothing about the person.Saying Bush is a good person and showing as proof that Adidas or Hummer donated money or products in his name in fact proves nothing about Bush at all, good or bad. That he gave 25% of royalties that he did next to nothing to earn is an only slightly better commendation of Bush than nothing at all. It certainly does not "cancel out" his very questionable to illegal actions he was party to while playing at USC, at least not in my opinion. Perhaps it does in yours. I think the latter actions are a direct look into Bush's character, while the former actions tell us nothing at all about him. You think the opposite. Fine, it's America. Let's see how it plays out, starting with negotiations with the Saints.

 

[thayman]

Yeah but if you use that arguement to look at things, then no public figure can do anything ever to benefit anyone BUT themselves. 

You could just as easily fault the same family that donated the $400 because they claimed it on on their taxes next year.

I'll ask one more time, because I felt that I made my point. Apparently not.A public person, or anyone else, for that matter, can reach into their own pocket and scrape out some money that they themsleves earned directly through their own hard work, donate it to a charitable cause, and that would lend credence to an argument that he has a commendable character, or at least redeemable traits.

When that same figure has someone else donate on their behalf, or donates money that they through no actions of their own became enriched, it says nothing about their character. It's still a good act, but says nothing about the person.

Saying Bush is a good person and showing as proof that Adidas or Hummer donated money or products in his name in fact proves nothing about Bush at all, good or bad. That he gave 25% of royalties that he did next to nothing to earn is an only slightly better commendation of Bush than nothing at all.

It certainly does not "cancel out" his very questionable to illegal actions he was party to while playing at USC, at least not in my opinion. Perhaps it does in yours. I think the latter actions are a direct look into Bush's character, while the former actions tell us nothing at all about him. You think the opposite. Fine, it's America. Let's see how it plays out, starting with negotiations with the Saints.

Well your glass is half empty knida guy....I'm more of glass is half full. And I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his one questionable issue, that is still unproven, at this point.Now your second paragraph there, depends on your point of view. Tell Reggie Bush or any other athlete that he did nothing to get where he is today. He spent time in high school, college, etc... working out, and playing football. That is what put him in a position to earn money of Jersey sales, NFL contract whatever. The kid worked to get where he is today.

And my problem is that it pisses me off, when an area like NO needs help. He's helping and your trying to tear him down for it, that's ####ed up. It doesn't matter what his motives are. Everyone has a secondary objective, or noone would do anything nice for anyone ever.

 

[P Boy]

Now your second paragraph there, depends on your point of view. Tell Reggie Bush or any other athlete that he did nothing to get where he is today. He spent time in high school, college, etc... working out, and playing football. That is what put him in a position to earn money of Jersey sales, NFL contract whatever. The kid worked to get where he is today.And my problem is that it pisses me off, when an area like NO needs help. He's helping and your trying to tear him down for it, that's ####ed up. It doesn't matter what his motives are. Everyone has a secondary objective, or noone would do anything nice for anyone ever.

Again, you completely miss the point. Bush did nothing, repeat nothing, to donate the $50,000 to the high school or to donate the 12 Hummers. If you want to applaud someone for that, applaud Adidas or Hummer - or more specifically their marketing departments. There's nothing to tear Bush down about regarding these contributions - he didn't make them, they were made in his name. That's not ####ed up, that's the facts. Those actions are attributable to Bush in name only.As far as donating the royalties, well we've already covered how small a donation that actually is, both in magnitude and in proportion. You could applaud millions of Americans who donate more of themselves either through time or money much more than making Bush a hero for this. And it's not money that Bush did anything to earn other than through his name. Someone else makes the jersey, markets it, provides the royalty check, and Bush scrapes off a bit of that. Now, if he dedicated part of his signing bonus - since that's directly attributable to his body of work so far - I'll be much more inclined to give him some props. Fat chance of that happening, but one never knows...

 

[thayman]

Now your second paragraph there, depends on your point of view.  Tell Reggie Bush or any other athlete that he did nothing to get where he is today.  He spent time in high school, college, etc... working out, and playing football.  That is what put him in a position to earn money of Jersey sales, NFL contract whatever.  The kid worked to get where he is today.

And my problem is that it pisses me off, when an area like NO needs help.  He's helping and your trying to tear him down for it, that's ####ed up.  It doesn't matter what his motives are.  Everyone has a secondary objective, or noone would do anything nice for anyone ever.

Again, you completely miss the point. Bush did nothing, repeat nothing, to donate the $50,000 to the high school or to donate the 12 Hummers. If you want to applaud someone for that, applaud Adidas or Hummer - or more specifically their marketing departments. There's nothing to tear Bush down about regarding these contributions - he didn't make them, they were made in his name. That's not ####ed up, that's the facts. Those actions are attributable to Bush in name only.As far as donating the royalties, well we've already covered how small a donation that actually is, both in magnitude and in proportion. You could applaud millions of Americans who donate more of themselves either through time or money much more than making Bush a hero for this. And it's not money that Bush did anything to earn other than through his name. Someone else makes the jersey, markets it, provides the royalty check, and Bush scrapes off a bit of that. Now, if he dedicated part of his signing bonus - since that's directly attributable to his body of work so far - I'll be much more inclined to give him some props. Fat chance of that happening, but one never knows...

He did nothing?? He didn't workout, and play high school, rec., college football? He didn't try out at a pro day? He worked to get where he is today, talent helps yes, but he worked. If he didn't work to be the talent that he is, then Addidas, Hummer and the like wouldn't give two acorns about what he had to say.Try and experiement, call up a company of your choice, and ask them to donate $50 grand to a cause around your area, see what they say. They will say no, because you and I are not in a position of fame to leverage $$$. Bush is and it is ludicrous to insinuate that he didn't work to get where he did today.

And yeah a $1.50 per jersey of his money is not a whole lot to him. But he hasn't even signed a contract yet. I don't know of any rookie that has ever come out and been willing to donate anything before he has even been formally signed.

Your comparing that someone else makes the Jerseys, sells them, makets them etc...WTF? The Beatles just recored some music and put it on a CD that someone else markets, makes, and sells, they get royalties. It's a product that has his name on it, so yes he deserves some $$ for it, just like the rest of the players get, only he is willing to donate some to charity.

And you still have not answered my question awhile back. Other than the allegations on his parents house, why is he such a low character guy?? That is the only negative thing that I have heard, but if there is more, I'd wouldn't mind knowing what it is.

 

[kentric]

I'm not a Bush defender or critic. I don't think anyone can say for certainty that Bush did or did not have a "substantive" say in the direction taken in the various donations being made in his name.

Did his marketing firm say "ok Bush, its a done deal - you're going to have 12 Hummers donated in your name and it'll help you with publicity." or, did Bush tell his marketing firm that he wanted to do something for the community and the marketing firm worked out the deals. Unless someone who is in the know comes forward, what has been done to date is pure speculation. You can argue one way or the other (and it provides the readers with some entertainment), but at the end of the day, noone here knows what's in his mind.

 

[NEUPJ]

Did his marketing firm say "ok Bush, its a done deal - you're going to have 12 Hummers donated in your name and it'll help you with publicity."

I'd imagine it was a series of meetings in their marketing departments saying "Bush's reputation has been damaged and isn't what worth what we thought he was, what's the cheapest way we can increase his reputation and still get the most benefit out of his original deal?""Hey let's donate 12 of our Hummers we can get at cost and donate those, we jack up the sticker price so everyone thinks they'll cost us a to donate"It wasn't RB calling up Hummer and saying "Man I need to get those NOPD some new Hummer's do it"

 

[thayman]

The same as every other player.  6% of jersey sales.  I didn't do the math when I saw your 18.75 so I think we had a miscommunication on that one......And honestly I'm not sure if he said he was giving 25% of total, or his portion of all sales, so I'll defer to you on that it is his take of the jersey sale pie.

So if it is 25% of TOTAL SALES = $18.75 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

25% of HIS ROYALTIES = $1.50 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

15,000 jerseys pre-ordered at this point in time.

Okay, I'll take your word of the 6% that players get from the sales. I couldn't find documentation of it.So, Bush gets 6% of $75 per jersey, and he'll contribute 25% of that to charity.

25% of 6% of 15,000 jerseys at $75 each amounts to $16,875. That's a far cry from the $200,000+ asserted earlier, and a mere pittance based upon a percentage of his earnings this year - if he gets signed. That's far less than a $400 charity write off by a family of 4 that earns $50,000 a year when considered proportionally.

Again, trying to establish some facts and some sense of reason here for those trying to annoint Bush as the next coming.

Hey Poney Boy FWIW we were a bit off on the math earlier but here is a link for you. Here is the nuts and bolts of it below.Ornstein says Bush — who will indeed wear No. 5 when he practices for the first time with the Saints at a weekend minicamp — is so serious about not parting with the number that he will pledge 25% of his proceeds from jersey sales to Katrina relief.

Players get 6% of the amount for each jersey sold, which, according to Ornstein, netted No. 1-ranked Randy Moss and other top sellers more than $1.5 million each last year.

If Bush's shirts are similarly hot, the Katrina donation could be in the $400,000 range.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...sh-jersey_x.htm

 

[T Man]

Now your second paragraph there, depends on your point of view.  Tell Reggie Bush or any other athlete that he did nothing to get where he is today.  He spent time in high school, college, etc... working out, and playing football.  That is what put him in a position to earn money of Jersey sales, NFL contract whatever.  The kid worked to get where he is today.

And my problem is that it pisses me off, when an area like NO needs help.  He's helping and your trying to tear him down for it, that's ####ed up.  It doesn't matter what his motives are.  Everyone has a secondary objective, or noone would do anything nice for anyone ever.

Again, you completely miss the point. Bush did nothing, repeat nothing, to donate the $50,000 to the high school or to donate the 12 Hummers. If you want to applaud someone for that, applaud Adidas or Hummer - or more specifically their marketing departments. There's nothing to tear Bush down about regarding these contributions - he didn't make them, they were made in his name. That's not ####ed up, that's the facts. Those actions are attributable to Bush in name only.As far as donating the royalties, well we've already covered how small a donation that actually is, both in magnitude and in proportion. You could applaud millions of Americans who donate more of themselves either through time or money much more than making Bush a hero for this. And it's not money that Bush did anything to earn other than through his name. Someone else makes the jersey, markets it, provides the royalty check, and Bush scrapes off a bit of that. Now, if he dedicated part of his signing bonus - since that's directly attributable to his body of work so far - I'll be much more inclined to give him some props. Fat chance of that happening, but one never knows...

I think you miss the point. While I agree that a person who pays a larger percentage of his annual income is making a "better" gift, all gifts are important. THus, Bush's gift, no matter how small it may be in comparison to his future income, it is still a sizeable gift.Bill Gates is considered one of the world's biggest philanthropists -- but using your logic, his gifts are meaningless because they pale in comparison to his total net worth.

To be clear, I believe Bush messed up in thinking he was definitely the #1 and his overreaching demands. I also think Bush messed up when he (albeit allegedly) took handouts for him and his family while still a Trojan. But he is giving soomething to the community. He may have alterior motives (and I believe he does for the most part), but to the people of New Orleans it is an appreciated gift nonetheless.

As for the Addidas and Hummer contributions, you are correct, he did not give them away. But he (or his handlers) contacted the appropriate persons to get the donation. If Bill Gates picks up the phone and asks GM to donate soething for a good cause, while the gift is GM's, Gates also did something.

Your problem seems to be with Bush publicizing his "goodness" and the media "eating it up". I agree with that; but, he still is doing something good. Regardless of the reason, let's not lose site of it.

 

[kentric]

Did his marketing firm say "ok Bush, its a done deal - you're going to have 12 Hummers donated in your name and it'll help you with publicity."

I'd imagine it was a series of meetings in their marketing departments saying "Bush's reputation has been damaged and isn't what worth what we thought he was, what's the cheapest way we can increase his reputation and still get the most benefit out of his original deal?""Hey let's donate 12 of our Hummers we can get at cost and donate those, we jack up the sticker price so everyone thinks they'll cost us a to donate"

It wasn't RB calling up Hummer and saying "Man I need to get those NOPD some new Hummer's do it"

If you read the last half of that sentence ("or, did Bush tell his marketing firm that he wanted to do something for the community and the marketing firm worked out the deals.") you should have been able to discern that I wasn't suggesting that Bush called Hummer, nor was I inferring that Bush did anything more than stated a desire that something should be done (potentially out of the goodness of his heart).

 

[Dancing Bear]

IMHO Bush had nothing to say about the donations.

Adidas and Hummer both realized that they mis-calculated with Bush and these charitable events are to cover their proverbial investments by re-constructing his [their] image!

 

[thayman]

IMHO Bush had nothing to say about the donations.

Adidas and Hummer both realized that they mis-calculated with Bush and these charitable events are to cover their proverbial investments by re-constructing his [their] image!

Even if that is the case, which I'm sure that it contributed as a good PR move by him. But again, I keep asking, and no Bush Hater has given me one reason why Bush is so "low-character" the only thing anyone has been able to throw out there is the unproven allegations on his parents house.

 

[NoFBinLA]

IMHO Bush had nothing to say about the donations.

Adidas and Hummer both realized that they mis-calculated with Bush and these charitable events are to cover their proverbial investments by re-constructing his [their] image!

Even if that is the case, which I'm sure that it contributed as a good PR move by him. But again, I keep asking, and no Bush Hater has given me one reason why Bush is so "low-character" the only thing anyone has been able to throw out there is the unproven allegations on his parents house.

You have to understand -- nobody in the history of man has ever used their influence to convince a corporation to donte money. EVER. So it can't be happening.At least, that's what i'm hearing here.

Listen - here's another thought. For whatever reason Hummer offered Bush A (singular) Hummvee.

And maybe -- just MAYBE - the kid was moved enough by driving through NO that he thought -- I don't need this. And suggested it be donated. And maybe Hummer said -- well, one is Ok, we can do more.

So maybe both sides came up with variations of this idea and one couldn't or wouldn't have done it without the other.

But wait, that's right - it's not possible. Because clearly, Bush is a horrible human being, who is doing things no rookie (or veteran) NFL player has ever done what with demanding a fair contract and asking for permission to wear a (GASP) forbidden number and... and... and....

Wait. That's it. We hate him for that?

Maybe he kicks puppies. I'll try to find pictures. Cause otherwise, I don't get the hate.

I don't know he's the 'second coming of Sayers, Sanders or Simpson' (he needs to play first) but I really don't get the volume and intensity of hate leveled his way for anything he does. And (almost) none of it football related.

Last I knew this was a Fantasy Football site - and while I get wanting to discuss contracts and whatnot and know all the extra distractions can affect a player, at what point is the attack on his personality just that -- personal?

And hell, none of us actually KNOW the cat, so how can we be assaulting his character? He hasn't been busted for drugs, he's not assaulting folks in Denny's, he's not stealing stuff from Wal-Mart, he's not - by any report - lazy. So already, isn't he a step up from some of the draftees and vets we've seen before (and still see on occasion)?

I mean where's the 'Marcus Vick is an #####' thread? Based on what he's done in comparison to Bush -- we should have THREE.

It's just become beyond weird. To me, that is. Maybe this is actually business as usual around here and as a new guy, I'm just seeing it for the first time.

And let's get it out of the way - I'm not backing him b/c I have him on a team, love USC, am an alumn, am in LA or any of that lame garbage.

I'm just wondering when we let this petty crap go and talk about his football prospects.

We can do that even if he hasn't signed a contract yet.

 

[thayman]

IMHO Bush had nothing to say about the donations.

Adidas and Hummer both realized that they mis-calculated with Bush and these charitable events are to cover their proverbial investments by re-constructing his [their] image!

Even if that is the case, which I'm sure that it contributed as a good PR move by him. But again, I keep asking, and no Bush Hater has given me one reason why Bush is so "low-character" the only thing anyone has been able to throw out there is the unproven allegations on his parents house.

You have to understand -- nobody in the history of man has ever used their influence to convince a corporation to donte money. EVER. So it can't be happening.At least, that's what i'm hearing here.

Listen - here's another thought. For whatever reason Hummer offered Bush A (singular) Hummvee.

And maybe -- just MAYBE - the kid was moved enough by driving through NO that he thought -- I don't need this. And suggested it be donated. And maybe Hummer said -- well, one is Ok, we can do more.

So maybe both sides came up with variations of this idea and one couldn't or wouldn't have done it without the other.

But wait, that's right - it's not possible. Because clearly, Bush is a horrible human being, who is doing things no rookie (or veteran) NFL player has ever done what with demanding a fair contract and asking for permission to wear a (GASP) forbidden number and... and... and....

Wait. That's it. We hate him for that?

Maybe he kicks puppies. I'll try to find pictures. Cause otherwise, I don't get the hate.

I don't know he's the 'second coming of Sayers, Sanders or Simpson' (he needs to play first) but I really don't get the volume and intensity of hate leveled his way for anything he does. And (almost) none of it football related.

Last I knew this was a Fantasy Football site - and while I get wanting to discuss contracts and whatnot and know all the extra distractions can affect a player, at what point is the attack on his personality just that -- personal?

And hell, none of us actually KNOW the cat, so how can we be assaulting his character? He hasn't been busted for drugs, he's not assaulting folks in Denny's, he's not stealing stuff from Wal-Mart, he's not - by any report - lazy. So already, isn't he a step up from some of the draftees and vets we've seen before (and still see on occasion)?

I mean where's the 'Marcus Vick is an #####' thread? Based on what he's done in comparison to Bush -- we should have THREE.

It's just become beyond weird. To me, that is. Maybe this is actually business as usual around here and as a new guy, I'm just seeing it for the first time.

And let's get it out of the way - I'm not backing him b/c I have him on a team, love USC, am an alumn, am in LA or any of that lame garbage.

I'm just wondering when we let this petty crap go and talk about his football prospects.

We can do that even if he hasn't signed a contract yet.

Wow....listen to that.......the blessed voice of sanity. Welcome to my world of not knowing where all the Bush hatred comes from. Best part is I still haven't heard a single fact as to WHY he is such a "low character" guy........Oh well.......I for one hope more NFL players go the route of Bush, and give as much back to people as Bush has........

 

[cstu]

The same as every other player. 6% of jersey sales. I didn't do the math when I saw your 18.75 so I think we had a miscommunication on that one......And honestly I'm not sure if he said he was giving 25% of total, or his portion of all sales, so I'll defer to you on that it is his take of the jersey sale pie.

So if it is 25% of TOTAL SALES = $18.75 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

25% of HIS ROYALTIES = $1.50 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

15,000 jerseys pre-ordered at this point in time.

Okay, I'll take your word of the 6% that players get from the sales. I couldn't find documentation of it.So, Bush gets 6% of $75 per jersey, and he'll contribute 25% of that to charity.

25% of 6% of 15,000 jerseys at $75 each amounts to $16,875. That's a far cry from the $200,000+ asserted earlier, and a mere pittance based upon a percentage of his earnings this year - if he gets signed. That's far less than a $400 charity write off by a family of 4 that earns $50,000 a year when considered proportionally.

Again, trying to establish some facts and some sense of reason here for those trying to annoint Bush as the next coming.

Hey Poney Boy FWIW we were a bit off on the math earlier but here is a link for you. Here is the nuts and bolts of it below.Ornstein says Bush — who will indeed wear No. 5 when he practices for the first time with the Saints at a weekend minicamp — is so serious about not parting with the number that he will pledge 25% of his proceeds from jersey sales to Katrina relief.

Players get 6% of the amount for each jersey sold, which, according to Ornstein, netted No. 1-ranked Randy Moss and other top sellers more than $1.5 million each last year.

If Bush's shirts are similarly hot, the Katrina donation could be in the $400,000 range.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...sh-jersey_x.htm

Are they saying that $25M worth of Moss jerseys were sold? That's how much would have to be sold for Moss to receive $1.5M and would be 333,333 jerseys at $75 each.

 

[thayman]

The same as every other player.  6% of jersey sales.  I didn't do the math when I saw your 18.75 so I think we had a miscommunication on that one......And honestly I'm not sure if he said he was giving 25% of total, or his portion of all sales, so I'll defer to you on that it is his take of the jersey sale pie.

So if it is 25% of TOTAL SALES = $18.75 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

25% of HIS ROYALTIES = $1.50 per jersey sold to Katrina Relief.

15,000 jerseys pre-ordered at this point in time.

Okay, I'll take your word of the 6% that players get from the sales. I couldn't find documentation of it.So, Bush gets 6% of $75 per jersey, and he'll contribute 25% of that to charity.

25% of 6% of 15,000 jerseys at $75 each amounts to $16,875. That's a far cry from the $200,000+ asserted earlier, and a mere pittance based upon a percentage of his earnings this year - if he gets signed. That's far less than a $400 charity write off by a family of 4 that earns $50,000 a year when considered proportionally.

Again, trying to establish some facts and some sense of reason here for those trying to annoint Bush as the next coming.

Hey Poney Boy FWIW we were a bit off on the math earlier but here is a link for you. Here is the nuts and bolts of it below.Ornstein says Bush — who will indeed wear No. 5 when he practices for the first time with the Saints at a weekend minicamp — is so serious about not parting with the number that he will pledge 25% of his proceeds from jersey sales to Katrina relief.

Players get 6% of the amount for each jersey sold, which, according to Ornstein, netted No. 1-ranked Randy Moss and other top sellers more than $1.5 million each last year.

If Bush's shirts are similarly hot, the Katrina donation could be in the $400,000 range.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...sh-jersey_x.htm

Are they saying that $25M worth of Moss jerseys were sold? That's how much would have to be sold for Moss to receive $1.5M and would be 333,333 jerseys at $75 each.

That's how I took it. It's a reputable news source, so I'm taking it a face value.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

...Welcome to my world of not knowing where all the Bush hatred comes from.

Personally, I'm tired of hearing from know it alls tell us how great Bush is. I'm sick of Bush already. It's like Mike Vick all over again, only worse.The fact is the kid already messed up and screwed himself out of the number 1 pick due to character issues and greed. That's not good. I dont need to hear about it every day from morons who are just guessing as to what MIGHT happen some day. Lump Joe Dodds into that group for giving Hoston grief in yesterdays email update about the draft.

I dont understand how anyone could NOT understand some Bush hate. He's overhyped already, and he has some character issues. He's not the antichrist, but he's defintely not impeccable either. And I'm tired of hearing how he's the best talent we've seen in 20 years and how Houston messed up, Houston messed up, Houston messed up, etc... NO ONE KNOWS YET.

Just like Mike Vick, I anticipate the rabid idiots who stake Bush now will never stop hyping him no matter how average his real world performance. It gets tiring.

 

[thayman]

...Welcome to my world of not knowing where all the Bush hatred comes from.

Personally, I'm tired of hearing from know it alls tell us how great Bush is. I'm sick of Bush already. It's like Mike Vick all over again, only worse.The fact is the kid already messed up and screwed himself out of the number 1 pick due to character issues and greed. That's not good. I dont need to hear about it every day from morons who are just guessing as to what MIGHT happen some day. Lump Joe Dodds into that group for giving Hoston grief in yesterdays email update about the draft.

I dont understand how anyone could NOT understand some Bush hate. He's overhyped already, and he has some character issues. He's not the antichrist, but he's defintely not impeccable either. And I'm tired of hearing how he's the best talent we've seen in 20 years and how Houston messed up, Houston messed up, Houston messed up, etc... NO ONE KNOWS YET.

Just like Mike Vick, I anticipate the rabid idiots who stake Bush now will never stop hyping him no matter how average his real world performance. It gets tiring.

What character issues??? What has he done?? There is ONE count them ONE ALLEGATION that the NCAA is looking into now. That is the only thing anyone has been able to tell me involving what this kids has done. Until he is found guilty, I can't come up with a "character flaw" for him.I do agree that he has been overhyped. Personally I feel he will be a good RB with the potential to be great. I haven't stated one thing about what I think his NFL performance is, just about how the guy has done alot for the city of NO donating, and getting lots of money and attention thrown into a city that really needs it, and there seems to be alot of people here that are trashing him for it.

 

[Dancing Bear]

thayman,

We are all only conjecturing about how and why Hummer and Adidas came through for the city of New Orleans and at this. Nobody really knows, at least not that has been shown on this board ...

Nobody knows whether it was these huge companies who are trying to back pedal based on their contracts and obligations with Bush or whether it is Bush being such a good samaritan and encouraging them to.

However, there is nothing in Reggie's past which would lead you to believe that he is a caring community guy though ... Check out his web site ... Reggie Bush Jr.. Do you see anywhere there where he shows any interest in his community? Or any hint of regular charity involvment? Not one bit. It is only about hyping Reggie, Reggie and more Reggie!

If I am a betting man, then I am saying that the collective brain trust and resources of these world-wide companies is behind this 100%. Do you really believe that a part-time RB/ Heismann Trophy winner from USC could leverage these companies into doing this?

With regards to the shirt $, I think that you really have to question his motives here too. The initial statement said that he would give the 25% if he gets #5; maybe he was misquoted ... Maybe he was arrogant and trying to finesse the NFL ... Who knows?

Clearly his second statement said that he would give 25% no matter what # ... This will be good for New Orleans for sure.

But, don't you have to wonder though? Why bring it up at all? New Orleans already has #5, #15, #25 and #35 taken by other players, so why make the first statement? Or for that matter, why make the second statement? Isn't charity supposed to be a selfless expression of your concern for others? Why make it public at all? Doesn't it smell just a little like self-promotion and cheap publicity?

Incidentally, No #5 for Reggie ...

If he wants his number to end in the numeral 5, then he will have to sign and ask for #45.

For the record, I hope that Reggie Bush, Jr. has a prosperous life and a long, healthy career in the NFL. I do not hate him. I just do not care for his pimping himself like a cheap two-bit whore on Bourbon Street.

His actions on the field should speak for themselves and earn him the $ that he deserves [this will not necessarily earn him what he wants though ...].

 

[ChromeWeasel]

...Welcome to my world of not knowing where all the Bush hatred comes from.

Personally, I'm tired of hearing from know it alls tell us how great Bush is. I'm sick of Bush already. It's like Mike Vick all over again, only worse.The fact is the kid already messed up and screwed himself out of the number 1 pick due to character issues and greed. That's not good. I dont need to hear about it every day from morons who are just guessing as to what MIGHT happen some day. Lump Joe Dodds into that group for giving Hoston grief in yesterdays email update about the draft.

I dont understand how anyone could NOT understand some Bush hate. He's overhyped already, and he has some character issues. He's not the antichrist, but he's defintely not impeccable either. And I'm tired of hearing how he's the best talent we've seen in 20 years and how Houston messed up, Houston messed up, Houston messed up, etc... NO ONE KNOWS YET.

Just like Mike Vick, I anticipate the rabid idiots who stake Bush now will never stop hyping him no matter how average his real world performance. It gets tiring.

What character issues??? What has he done?? There is ONE count them ONE ALLEGATION that the NCAA is looking into now. That is the only thing anyone has been able to tell me involving what this kids has done. Until he is found guilty, I can't come up with a "character flaw" for him.I do agree that he has been overhyped. Personally I feel he will be a good RB with the potential to be great. I haven't stated one thing about what I think his NFL performance is, just about how the guy has done alot for the city of NO donating, and getting lots of money and attention thrown into a city that really needs it, and there seems to be alot of people here that are trashing him for it.

That's a pretty serious NCAA violation. And it seems he was either too greedy or too stupid to get the #1 pick from Houston. So he got stuck in New Orleans and the #2 pick. Those are character issues. They arent the end of the world, but lets not pretend they dont exist.And I havent seen anyone trashing Bush for the charity stuff. I've seen people say that Bush is the beneficiary of corporate sponsors looking out for themselves in the long run. That Bush isnt going out of his way to do anything special. This seems pretty reasonable to me. The only thing that could have come out of his pocket were royalties from his jersey, and that was donated specifically because he was lobbying for #5. He has recanted on that and said he'd donate the money anyway, but it sounds like it was originally a ploy to get something else he wanted from the NFL.

I just dont see anything selfless and charitable about this guy so far. He's not doing anything terrible, but he's not giving up anything of himself either. Everything has been self-motivated.

 

[thayman]

thayman,

We are all only conjecturing about how and why Hummer and Adidas came through for the city of New Orleans and at this. Nobody really knows, at least not that has been shown on this board ...

Does it matter? A needy city is getting needed things, that whether you like it or not, if Bush didn't go to the Saints. These companies probably wouldn't of done anything.

Nobody knows whether it was these huge companies who are trying to back pedal based on their contracts and obligations with Bush or whether it is Bush being such a good samaritan and encouraging them to.

It's a combo of both. He has a position to promote some good will to the city, yes he is buying it with donations and such but again the people whose housed have been flooded out are probably pretty happy to get some $$$

However, there is nothing in Reggie's past which would lead you to believe that he is a caring community guy though ... Check out his web site ... Reggie Bush Jr.. Do you see anywhere there where he shows any interest in his community? Or any hint of regular charity involvment? Not one bit. It is only about hyping Reggie, Reggie and more Reggie!

Yes and there is nothing in his past that would lead you to belive that he is a horrible human being. And I'm shocked SHOCKED!! That someone's website would *gasp* promote themselves?!?! I for one have never gone to any NFL players website and seen them promoting themselves. What an arrogant ##### this guy is!!!

If I am a betting man, then I am saying that the collective brain trust and resources of these world-wide companies is behind this 100%. Do you really believe that a part-time RB/ Heismann Trophy winner from USC could leverage these companies into doing this?

So there is not even the remote possiblity of Reggie Bush saying to Adidas....."hey I know you want to sign me, why don't you donate some loot to NO and that would go along way when I make my decision on who I want to sponsor me?" I'm a betting man, and that's where I'd put my $$. But as you said earlier we probably won't ever know the specifics. I seriously doubt Reggie was sitting at home playing XBOX Hummer, and Addidas called up and said "Hey Reg, we're going to donate some money to NO in your name alright?" I'll bet that he had at least something to do with it. And he isn't just the Heismann Trophy winner/part-time RB from USC, he's also the most hyped draftee in just about ever, so yes I do belive he can use that leverage to get all kinds of perks out of potential sponsors, he seems to be using it to benefit the people of NO though.

With regards to the shirt $, I think that you really have to question his motives here too. The initial statement said that he would give the 25% if he gets #5; maybe he was misquoted ... Maybe he was arrogant and trying to finesse the NFL ... Who knows?

Question his motives???? If his jersey sales are on par with Moss from last year (see my earlier post) he would be giving $400,000 I don't care who you are, that's alot of cash. I'm guessing that alot of needy people will like that. But hey just another example of his pisspoor character right???

Clearly his second statement said that he would give 25% no matter what # ... This will be good for New Orleans for sure.

But, don't you have to wonder though? Why bring it up at all? New Orleans already has #5, #15, #25 and #35 taken by other players, so why make the first statement? Or for that matter, why make the second statement? Isn't charity supposed to be a selfless expression of your concern for others? Why make it public at all? Doesn't it smell just a little like self-promotion and cheap publicity?

yeah 5, 15,25,35 all taken yes can't argue there. New players buy numbers from existing players pretty comonly. See Eli Manning, Plaxico Burress, Clinton Portis etc. etc.... Not sure if you haven't heard of it before, but a player who isn't so attached to his number, oh like your punter for example, is always willing to sell it for a few thousand, or a new kitchen, or a vacation to the new guy who really wants it.

Incidentally, No #5 for Reggie ...

If he wants his number to end in the numeral 5, then he will have to sign and ask for #45.

Or he will buy it from some one on the team that has a number he wants. Again happens fairly regularly.

For the record, I hope that Reggie Bush, Jr. has a prosperous life and a long, healthy career in the NFL. I do not hate him. I just do not care for his pimping himself like a cheap two-bit whore on Bourbon Street.

Pimping himself and promoting himself?? You can say the same about every athlete/celebrity. They all promote themselves, they all have sponsors this is the business of modern sports.

His actions on the field should speak for themselves and earn him the $ that he deserves [this will not necessarily earn him what he wants though ...].

Yes they should. Again I think he will be a good, with greatness potential football player. It's not going to be what he wants, I haven't heard anything about what he wants, just a "fair" deal. What will that be?? I don't know, we will see when he signs a deal.

 

[thayman]

...Welcome to my world of not knowing where all the Bush hatred comes from.

Personally, I'm tired of hearing from know it alls tell us how great Bush is. I'm sick of Bush already. It's like Mike Vick all over again, only worse.The fact is the kid already messed up and screwed himself out of the number 1 pick due to character issues and greed. That's not good. I dont need to hear about it every day from morons who are just guessing as to what MIGHT happen some day. Lump Joe Dodds into that group for giving Hoston grief in yesterdays email update about the draft.

I dont understand how anyone could NOT understand some Bush hate. He's overhyped already, and he has some character issues. He's not the antichrist, but he's defintely not impeccable either. And I'm tired of hearing how he's the best talent we've seen in 20 years and how Houston messed up, Houston messed up, Houston messed up, etc... NO ONE KNOWS YET.

Just like Mike Vick, I anticipate the rabid idiots who stake Bush now will never stop hyping him no matter how average his real world performance. It gets tiring.

What character issues??? What has he done?? There is ONE count them ONE ALLEGATION that the NCAA is looking into now. That is the only thing anyone has been able to tell me involving what this kids has done. Until he is found guilty, I can't come up with a "character flaw" for him.I do agree that he has been overhyped. Personally I feel he will be a good RB with the potential to be great. I haven't stated one thing about what I think his NFL performance is, just about how the guy has done alot for the city of NO donating, and getting lots of money and attention thrown into a city that really needs it, and there seems to be alot of people here that are trashing him for it.

That's a pretty serious NCAA violation. And it seems he was either too greedy or too stupid to get the #1 pick from Houston. So he got stuck in New Orleans and the #2 pick. Those are character issues. They arent the end of the world, but lets not pretend they dont exist.Yeah it is, a serious violation. But again it is a (ready say it with me) ALLEGATION by questionable people at that. Ok he was greedy or too stupid, yeah that's a great arguement. Have a link on that?? Can you show me something that says he was stupid and greedy?? For every thing I've heard about Bush being greedy, I've heard that the Casserly had a brain fart, and wanted to go D all of a sudden. Personally I don't think it is a coincednce that Casserly has been fired.

And I havent seen anyone trashing Bush for the charity stuff. I've seen people say that Bush is the beneficiary of corporate sponsors looking out for themselves in the long run. That Bush isnt going out of his way to do anything special. This seems pretty reasonable to me. The only thing that could have come out of his pocket were royalties from his jersey, and that was donated specifically because he was lobbying for #5. He has recanted on that and said he'd donate the money anyway, but it sounds like it was originally a ploy to get something else he wanted from the NFL.

yeah he's not going out of his way at all. .....http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=178904&src=0

I just dont see anything selfless and charitable about this guy so far. He's not doing anything terrible, but he's not giving up anything of himself either. Everything has been self-motivated.

I can say the same about any person that donates anything. Particularly famous people. It improves their public image, so if a person of fame does anything for charity, it is selfish and self motivated?? What if I donate $1000 to Katrina relif, and then write it off on my taxes. I'm very self-motivated there, and yet $$ still goes to the needy.

 

[P Boy]

What character issues??? What has he done?? There is ONE count them ONE ALLEGATION that the NCAA is looking into now. That is the only thing anyone has been able to tell me involving what this kids has done. Until he is found guilty, I can't come up with a "character flaw" for him.

You don't think expecting the NFL to change a rule - before he's even played one down in the league - just because he's Reggie Bush & he expects them to isn't enough of a flaw? That's not to mention the deal that allowed for New Era promotions to give his family a house rent free & $100,000 in cash, and which New Era apperntly intends to sue Bush for $3M for reneging on - while he was playing in college & his family was illegally receiving these benefits. If true - and I'll use if, though released evidence sure points that way with no contrary evidence supporting Bush's "I didn't do nothing" defense - he'll have pissed all over the Heisman trophy as well as placing USC in the path of significant NCAA sanctions - you know, the guys who played with him & coached him so that he could gain all that fame & glory?How about the alleged outrageous contract demands, significantly more than a franchise QB, for a part time RB? Some have it at 20% more than Smith got, some have his signing bonus demand at $30M. Either way, they're way out of line. Then his agent checks in that Bush expects to be paid as the #1 pick even though he's the #2 pick?This is all before he's even a player in the league. What do you expect from him as his career advances? More capitulation & cooperation? LOL. Good luck with that...

 

[thayman]

What character issues???  What has he done??  There is ONE count them ONE ALLEGATION that the NCAA is looking into now.  That is the only thing anyone has been able to tell me involving what this kids has done.  Until he is found guilty, I can't come up with a "character flaw" for him.

You don't think expecting the NFL to change a rule - before he's even played one down in the league - just because he's Reggie Bush & he expects them to isn't enough of a flaw?No I dont. I don't consider it a flaw when other players in the NFL come out and agree that the rule should be changed. And if this is one of best things you can come up with?? Even if you consider this a problem, it's minor at best.

That's not to mention the deal that allowed for New Era promotions to give his family a house rent free & $100,000 in cash, and which New Era apperntly intends to sue Bush for $3M for reneging on - while he was playing in college & his family was illegally receiving these benefits. If true - and I'll use if, though released evidence sure points that way with no contrary evidence supporting Bush's "I didn't do nothing" defense - he'll have pissed all over the Heisman trophy as well as placing USC in the path of significant NCAA sanctions - you know, the guys who played with him & coached him so that he could gain all that fame & glory?

I completly agree that if he is found guilty then yeah that blows, and if he is found guilty it will change my opinion on him. But I was under the impression that I lived in the US, and here you are innocent until proven guilty. So until the thugs that started New Era (they are gang members) prove the case, I'll consider him innocent for now, but then again I'm a big fan of Due Process of Law, and the Constitution stuff like that.

How about the alleged outrageous contract demands, significantly more than a franchise QB, for a part time RB? Some have it at 20% more than Smith got, some have his signing bonus demand at $30M. Either way, they're way out of line. Then his agent checks in that Bush expects to be paid as the #1 pick even though he's the #2 pick?

Yeah Bush is the first high draft pick to want lots of $$. You have heard of something called negotiating right? Kinda like when you go buy a car from a dealership. They say something higher than you want to pay, and you say something lower then you will pay. Then typically both sides meet somwhere in the middle. This happens pretty frequently in the NFL.

This is all before he's even a player in the league. What do you expect from him as his career advances? More capitulation & cooperation? LOL. Good luck with that...

Yes it is before he's a player in the league, and again what do I expect from him? Again I expect a good career, with potential to be great. And how can you fault him for capitalizing on his situation?? Given the amount of hype is has had, I think he's carried himself pretty well so far.

Also curious as to your thoughts about the jersey sales? Did you see the link that I posted before?? Just wondering what your thoughts were on it now.

 

[P Boy]

I completly agree that if he is found guilty then yeah that blows, and if he is found guilty it will change my opinion on him. But I was under the impression that I lived in the US, and here you are innocent until proven guilty. So until the thugs that started New Era (they are gang members) prove the case, I'll consider him innocent for now, but then again I'm a big fan of Due Process of Law, and the Constitution stuff like that.

You know, I never considered that. You've got a great point. I'm absolutely sure that a promotional firm that includes ownership by gang members just gave his family free rent worth $40,000+ and another $100,000 cash just in the vague hope that they'd be able to talk to Reggie once he was finished with his career at USC.I'm sure you're right about that. I can't believe that I jumped to such an unwarrented conclusion. Maybe they even just picked Bush's family out of the phone book and used the year's free rent and $100,000 giveaway as a way to get good will about their new company and the fact that it's Reggie's parents is just some off coincidence! Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. Good will.

Yeah Bush is the first high draft pick to want lots of $$. You have heard of something called negotiating right? Kinda like when you go buy a car from a dealership. They say something higher than you want to pay, and you say something lower then you will pay. Then typically both sides meet somwhere in the middle. This happens pretty frequently in the NFL.

Yep. You're right again. When I go in to buy a $30,000 car, I expect the dealership to start negotiations at $45,000. That just keeps me riveted and makes me want to buy the car all the more, especially when I've got another dealership offering me a similar car at $30,000. Good point. Hadn't thought of that either.Have to admit, you logic is irrefutable and you have me outfoxed & outfacted at every turn.

 

[thayman]

I completly agree that if he is found guilty then yeah that blows, and if he is found guilty it will change my opinion on him.  But I was under the impression that I lived in the US, and here you are innocent until proven guilty.  So until the thugs that started New Era (they are gang members) prove the case, I'll consider him innocent for now, but then again I'm a big fan of Due Process of Law, and the Constitution stuff like that.

You know, I never considered that. You've got a great point. I'm absolutely sure that a promotional firm that includes ownership by gang members just gave his family free rent worth $40,000+ and another $100,000 cash just in the vague hope that they'd be able to talk to Reggie once he was finished with his career at USC.I'm sure you're right about that. I can't believe that I jumped to such an unwarrented conclusion. Maybe they even just picked Bush's family out of the phone book and used the year's free rent and $100,000 giveaway as a way to get good will about their new company and the fact that it's Reggie's parents is just some off coincidence! Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. Good will.

If you hate the guy for whatever reason fine. But whether you like it or not, he is entitled to the exact same rights and privlidges that you and I are. Meaning he has been accused of some wrong doing, however, until the NCAA comes out with their findings, I'll watch, but give him the benefit of the doubt for now. But hey again that's just me being a fan of equal rights things of that nature.

Yeah Bush is the first high draft pick to want lots of $$.  You have heard of something called negotiating right?  Kinda like when you go buy a car from a dealership.  They say something higher than you want to pay, and you say something lower then you will pay.  Then typically both sides meet somwhere in the middle.  This happens pretty frequently in the NFL.

Yep. You're right again. When I go in to buy a $30,000 car, I expect the dealership to start negotiations at $45,000. That just keeps me riveted and makes me want to buy the car all the more, especially when I've got another dealership offering me a similar car at $30,000. Good point. Hadn't thought of that either.Have to admit, you logic is irrefutable and you have me outfoxed & outfacted at every turn.

Why Houston took Williams over Bush I don't know. If it was because he wanted more $$ then fine, but I personally find it a bit suspicious that Casserly was let go shortly thereafter. And your misconstrewing my point. I was using the car analogy in response to your concerns about his demands for big time cash, they are negotiating that's what you do when you negotiate. Segal will say he wants more $$ then he knows the Saints are willing to pay, the Saints will say less then what Segal will take. Then they will meet somewhere in the middle.

We will probably not have a decent idea what his contract will look like until the Jets sign Ferguson. Segal has a history of waiting to see what the picks around his client sign for to give him both a celing and a floor to go from.

and again I'm still curious as to what you think of his jersey donations. Any thoughts??

 

[ChromeWeasel]

I completly agree that if he is found guilty then yeah that blows, and if he is found guilty it will change my opinion on him. But I was under the impression that I lived in the US, and here you are innocent until proven guilty. So until the thugs that started New Era (they are gang members) prove the case, I'll consider him innocent for now, but then again I'm a big fan of Due Process of Law, and the Constitution stuff like that.

You know, I never considered that. You've got a great point. I'm absolutely sure that a promotional firm that includes ownership by gang members just gave his family free rent worth $40,000+ and another $100,000 cash just in the vague hope that they'd be able to talk to Reggie once he was finished with his career at USC.I'm sure you're right about that. I can't believe that I jumped to such an unwarrented conclusion. Maybe they even just picked Bush's family out of the phone book and used the year's free rent and $100,000 giveaway as a way to get good will about their new company and the fact that it's Reggie's parents is just some off coincidence! Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. Good will.

If you hate the guy for whatever reason fine. But whether you like it or not, he is entitled to the exact same rights and privlidges that you and I are. Meaning he has been accused of some wrong doing, however, until the NCAA comes out with their findings, I'll watch, but give him the benefit of the doubt for now. But hey again that's just me being a fan of equal rights things of that nature.

Yeah Bush is the first high draft pick to want lots of $$. You have heard of something called negotiating right? Kinda like when you go buy a car from a dealership. They say something higher than you want to pay, and you say something lower then you will pay. Then typically both sides meet somwhere in the middle. This happens pretty frequently in the NFL.

Yep. You're right again. When I go in to buy a $30,000 car, I expect the dealership to start negotiations at $45,000. That just keeps me riveted and makes me want to buy the car all the more, especially when I've got another dealership offering me a similar car at $30,000. Good point. Hadn't thought of that either.Have to admit, you logic is irrefutable and you have me outfoxed & outfacted at every turn.

Why Houston took Williams over Bush I don't know. If it was because he wanted more $$ then fine, but I personally find it a bit suspicious that Casserly was let go shortly thereafter. And your misconstrewing my point. I was using the car analogy in response to your concerns about his demands for big time cash, they are negotiating that's what you do when you negotiate. Segal will say he wants more $$ then he knows the Saints are willing to pay, the Saints will say less then what Segal will take. Then they will meet somewhere in the middle.

We will probably not have a decent idea what his contract will look like until the Jets sign Ferguson. Segal has a history of waiting to see what the picks around his client sign for to give him both a celing and a floor to go from.

and again I'm still curious as to what you think of his jersey donations. Any thoughts??

This stands out to me:"Bush's contribution comes through his affiliation with Adidas."

Did Bush give the money up himself, or did Adidas pay $50k and let Bush take the credit? It looks like the money isnt coming out of Bush's pocket, or else Adidas wouldnt have its logo pasted across the check for the photo op. (clearly visible HERE: http://www.neworleanssaints.com/newsroomar...articleid=2486)

It's a nice thing if Bush actively sought out Adidas and bargained for them to donate the money in his name. It's another thing if Adidas offered to do it for Bush's sake and his agent was the only thing connecting the two. Who knows?

 

[thayman]

I completly agree that if he is found guilty then yeah that blows, and if he is found guilty it will change my opinion on him.  But I was under the impression that I lived in the US, and here you are innocent until proven guilty.  So until the thugs that started New Era (they are gang members) prove the case, I'll consider him innocent for now, but then again I'm a big fan of Due Process of Law, and the Constitution stuff like that.

You know, I never considered that. You've got a great point. I'm absolutely sure that a promotional firm that includes ownership by gang members just gave his family free rent worth $40,000+ and another $100,000 cash just in the vague hope that they'd be able to talk to Reggie once he was finished with his career at USC.I'm sure you're right about that. I can't believe that I jumped to such an unwarrented conclusion. Maybe they even just picked Bush's family out of the phone book and used the year's free rent and $100,000 giveaway as a way to get good will about their new company and the fact that it's Reggie's parents is just some off coincidence! Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. Good will.

If you hate the guy for whatever reason fine. But whether you like it or not, he is entitled to the exact same rights and privlidges that you and I are. Meaning he has been accused of some wrong doing, however, until the NCAA comes out with their findings, I'll watch, but give him the benefit of the doubt for now. But hey again that's just me being a fan of equal rights things of that nature.

Yeah Bush is the first high draft pick to want lots of $$.  You have heard of something called negotiating right?  Kinda like when you go buy a car from a dealership.  They say something higher than you want to pay, and you say something lower then you will pay.  Then typically both sides meet somwhere in the middle.  This happens pretty frequently in the NFL.

Yep. You're right again. When I go in to buy a $30,000 car, I expect the dealership to start negotiations at $45,000. That just keeps me riveted and makes me want to buy the car all the more, especially when I've got another dealership offering me a similar car at $30,000. Good point. Hadn't thought of that either.Have to admit, you logic is irrefutable and you have me outfoxed & outfacted at every turn.

Why Houston took Williams over Bush I don't know. If it was because he wanted more $$ then fine, but I personally find it a bit suspicious that Casserly was let go shortly thereafter. And your misconstrewing my point. I was using the car analogy in response to your concerns about his demands for big time cash, they are negotiating that's what you do when you negotiate. Segal will say he wants more $$ then he knows the Saints are willing to pay, the Saints will say less then what Segal will take. Then they will meet somewhere in the middle.

We will probably not have a decent idea what his contract will look like until the Jets sign Ferguson. Segal has a history of waiting to see what the picks around his client sign for to give him both a celing and a floor to go from.

and again I'm still curious as to what you think of his jersey donations. Any thoughts??

This stands out to me:"Bush's contribution comes through his affiliation with Adidas."

Did Bush give the money up himself, or did Adidas pay $50k and let Bush take the credit? It looks like the money isnt coming out of Bush's pocket, or else Adidas wouldnt have its logo pasted across the check for the photo op. (clearly visible HERE: http://www.neworleanssaints.com/newsroomar...articleid=2486)

It's a nice thing if Bush actively sought out Adidas and bargained for them to donate the money in his name. It's another thing if Adidas offered to do it for Bush's sake and his agent was the only thing connecting the two. Who knows?

Depends on how you read it. Did the money ultimately come from Adidas yes? Was it part of Bush's endorsement deal? Adidas gave Bush $X amount, then the took $50,000 of it to give to a school? Perhaps, all I know is that if Bush wasn't in NO, the school wouldn't of gotten a dime from Adidas.