California grants drivers licenses for illegal immigrants (1 Viewer)

[NCCommish]

Yes it is terrible to get these people in the system and get them to at least get insurance for a short time.

Auto Insurance and illegal immigrants?

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Have to insurance to get a license.

 

[rockaction]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

 

[Shrugs]

So lines at the DMV are about to get worse?

 

[drummer]

Yes it is terrible to get these people in the system and get them to at least get insurance for a short time.

Auto Insurance and illegal immigrants?

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Have to insurance to get a license.

And there lies an upside to it. More $$ to the insurance industry, and even more $$ to the horrid CA DMV.

 

[humpback]

Probably ought to just disband the border patrol at this point.

Not necessary. What we should do instead is have open immigration for anyone who is not sick or a criminal.

This is kind of funny. First of all, why would you discriminate against the sick? Secondly, you're basically saying open immigration to anyone anyone except the iglegal immigrates aalready here.

First off there have to be public health considerations, and we don't want terrorists or criminals. Otherwise no exceptions.

Do we make them pinky swear?

 

[mquinnjr]

Yes it is terrible to get these people in the system and get them to at least get insurance for a short time.

Auto Insurance and illegal immigrants?

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Have to insurance to get a license.

And there lies an upside to it. More $$ to the insurance industry, and even more $$ to the horrid CA DMV.

The rates...

 

[SteevieG]

<_<

I am sooooo glad I don't live there anymore. I've been gone 7 years and I haven't regretted a single second of it.

Where did you move to?

Atlanta area

 

[drummer]

Yes it is terrible to get these people in the system and get them to at least get insurance for a short time.

Auto Insurance and illegal immigrants?

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Have to insurance to get a license.

And there lies an upside to it. More $$ to the insurance industry, and even more $$ to the horrid CA DMV.

The rates...

Yeah, the upside isn't in our favor.

 

[GoFishTN]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

 

[timschochet]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

 

[McGarnicle]

I feel that they should all be rounded up and shot, so that's why I don't usually post in these threads.

 

[whoknew]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

 

[rockaction]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

Yes, you've been keenly libertarian and much like Barry Goldwater in all these other threads. Please.

 

[whoknew]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

Yes, you've been keenly libertarian and much like Barry Goldwater in all these other threads. Please.

How is open borders be a liberal or progressive or Democrat position?

And how is closing the border sand throwing all undocumented immigrants in the hoosegow before deporting them be the conservative or republican position?

 

[Warrior]

and it will decrease crimes

Tim's solution for high crime rates: change the laws so it's not illegal anymore.Pathetic

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I don't understand the logic of being against it.

Most of them just hate "other" people.

 

[GoFishTN]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

 

[timschochet]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

Yes, you've been keenly libertarian and much like Barry Goldwater in all these other threads. Please.

How is open borders be a liberal or progressive or Democrat position?

And how is closing the border sand throwing all undocumented immigrants in the hoosegow before deporting them be the conservative or republican position?

This guy gets it.

Unfortunately, most of the people I meet today who call themselves libertarian have no idea what that means. Usually for them, it's just another way of being an extreme conservative, like Rand Paul. Like him, they are typically anti-illegal immigrant.

 

[timschochet]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

 

[humpback]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

 

[timschochet]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

Absolutely. Give them the chance to come here legally, and they will do so.

And please don't speak to me about how these people should have "waited in line". For most of them, there was no line.

 

[SoBeDad]

I believe that a driver's license may be sufficient to get someone on a domestic flight. Will this lead to more immigrants flying or longer security lines at airports in California? I'm just wondering.

 

[Mile High]

The law was signed by Jerry Brown today. It goes into effect on January 1. Over 1.5 million illegals are expected to sign up immediately.

This is ####### awesome. It's a great victory for reason over irrational discrimination! I admit I was totally wrong about Brown. Hopefully other states will follow CalIfornia's example.

Other states that allow illegal immigrants to apply for motor vehicle licenses in some form are New Mexico, Utah, Oregon, Nevada, Illinois and Washington and Maryland.

The Colorado law will go into effect on August 1, 2014, and licenses must be renewed every three years.

 

[timschochet]

The law was signed by Jerry Brown today. It goes into effect on January 1. Over 1.5 million illegals are expected to sign up immediately.

This is ####### awesome. It's a great victory for reason over irrational discrimination! I admit I was totally wrong about Brown. Hopefully other states will follow CalIfornia's example.

Other states that allow illegal immigrants to apply for motor vehicle licenses in some form are New Mexico, Utah, Oregon, Nevada, Illinois and Washington and Maryland.

The Colorado law will go into effect on August 1, 2014, and licenses must be renewed every three years.

I did not know this. Thanks!

 

[Beerguzzler]

US wouldn't be here without illegal immigration. I don't really have much of an opinion on the subject, but the US was founded on accepting individuals from all over.

 

[drummer]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

Absolutely. Give them the chance to come here legally, and they will do so.

And please don't speak to me about how these people should have "waited in line". For most of them, there was no line.

They should wait in line. Immigration should have policy and regulation. Flooding immigrants into the country isn't in the best interest of security, for Americans and the other cultures immigrating. Think of a city that had suddenly 50,000 people from another country populating a small region. Guess who winds up less secure and exploited? The people from the other country, most likely victimized from others within their own.

That beer in your hands is making you naive again. Must be some good ####.

 

[timschochet]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

Absolutely. Give them the chance to come here legally, and they will do so.

And please don't speak to me about how these people should have "waited in line". For most of them, there was no line.

They should wait in line. Immigration should have policy and regulation. Flooding immigrants into the country isn't in the best interest of security, for Americans and the other cultures immigrating. Think of a city that had suddenly 50,000 people from another country populating a small region. Guess who winds up less secure and exploited? The people from the other country, most likely victimized from others within their own.

That beer in your hands is making you naive again. Must be some good ####.

Of course some will be exploited and victimized. The Irish were, and the Italians and Poles and Chinese and Japanese and my Jewish great-grandparents. So what? It still turned out to be a better life for them and their children, and just as importantly, they've contributed to our society in immeasurable ways.

 

[rockaction]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

Yes, you've been keenly libertarian and much like Barry Goldwater in all these other threads. Please.

How is open borders be a liberal or progressive or Democrat position?

And how is closing the border sand throwing all undocumented immigrants in the hoosegow before deporting them be the conservative or republican position?

This guy gets it.

Unfortunately, most of the people I meet today who call themselves libertarian have no idea what that means. Usually for them, it's just another way of being an extreme conservative, like Rand Paul. Like him, they are typically anti-illegal immigrant.

Libertarians take all sorts of positions on all sorts of things. The intellectual tradition of libertarianism is indeed very pro-immigrant.

But let's not pretend you -- as in, you timscochet, which is my point -- can all of the sudden adopt the banner of libertarianism when it suits. You're a big government progressive, through and through, and I've read enough threads to know that this "i'm a Goldwater-ite" schtick doesn't leave this thread about immigration intact.

 

[17seconds]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

Absolutely. Give them the chance to come here legally, and they will do so.

And please don't speak to me about how these people should have "waited in line". For most of them, there was no line.

66% of Mexican citizens living in the US are illegal

Every other country the illegal rate is less than 10%

The thing that separates Mexicans from other immigrants in my opinion (and why people dislike them so much) is that huge numbers of them have no intention of becoming Mexican-Americans. The numbers tell you that, you can witness the way they live their lives in the US to tell you that. They want to live here as Mexicans and send money home.

We can debate whether that is useful or harmful to our country, but don't tell me they all want to be Americans. That's total BS.

 

[drummer]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

Absolutely. Give them the chance to come here legally, and they will do so.

And please don't speak to me about how these people should have "waited in line". For most of them, there was no line.

They should wait in line. Immigration should have policy and regulation. Flooding immigrants into the country isn't in the best interest of security, for Americans and the other cultures immigrating. Think of a city that had suddenly 50,000 people from another country populating a small region. Guess who winds up less secure and exploited? The people from the other country, most likely victimized from others within their own.

That beer in your hands is making you naive again. Must be some good ####.

Of course some will be exploited and victimized. The Irish were, and the Italians and Poles and Chinese and Japanese and my Jewish great-grandparents. So what? It still turned out to be a better life for them and their children, and just as importantly, they've contributed to our society in immeasurable ways.

You're missing all the crime part, which costs a lot more for the natural Americans, in a lot of ways the ultimate price with their lives for both immigrants and native citizens.

BTW, put 10,000 El Salvadorans in a primarily Mexican community. Probably won't work out well.

 

[timschochet]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

Yes, you've been keenly libertarian and much like Barry Goldwater in all these other threads. Please.

How is open borders be a liberal or progressive or Democrat position?

And how is closing the border sand throwing all undocumented immigrants in the hoosegow before deporting them be the conservative or republican position?

This guy gets it.

Unfortunately, most of the people I meet today who call themselves libertarian have no idea what that means. Usually for them, it's just another way of being an extreme conservative, like Rand Paul. Like him, they are typically anti-illegal immigrant.

Libertarians take all sorts of positions on all sorts of things. The intellectual tradition of libertarianism is indeed very pro-immigrant.

But let's not pretend you -- as in, you timscochet, which is my point -- can all of the sudden adopt the banner of libertarianism when it suits. You're a big government progressive, through and through, and I've read enough threads to know that this "i'm a Goldwater-ite" schtick doesn't leave this thread about immigration intact.

I believe in free trade, open immigration, and individual liberty. For me, these are the key elements of the libertarianism that I adopted back in college. Feel free to call it whatever you want.

 

[drummer]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

Yes, you've been keenly libertarian and much like Barry Goldwater in all these other threads. Please.

How is open borders be a liberal or progressive or Democrat position?

And how is closing the border sand throwing all undocumented immigrants in the hoosegow before deporting them be the conservative or republican position?

This guy gets it.

Unfortunately, most of the people I meet today who call themselves libertarian have no idea what that means. Usually for them, it's just another way of being an extreme conservative, like Rand Paul. Like him, they are typically anti-illegal immigrant.

Libertarians take all sorts of positions on all sorts of things. The intellectual tradition of libertarianism is indeed very pro-immigrant.

But let's not pretend you -- as in, you timscochet, which is my point -- can all of the sudden adopt the banner of libertarianism when it suits. You're a big government progressive, through and through, and I've read enough threads to know that this "i'm a Goldwater-ite" schtick doesn't leave this thread about immigration intact.

I believe in free trade, open immigration, and individual liberty. For me, these are the key elements of the libertarianism that I adopted back in college. Feel free to call it whatever you want.

Yeah well Cato dot org is only a click away too.

 

[timschochet]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

Absolutely. Give them the chance to come here legally, and they will do so.

And please don't speak to me about how these people should have "waited in line". For most of them, there was no line.

66% of Mexican citizens living in the US are illegal

Every other country the illegal rate is less than 10%

The thing that separates Mexicans from other immigrants in my opinion (and why people dislike them so much) is that huge numbers of them have no intention of becoming Mexican-Americans. The numbers tell you that, you can witness the way they live their lives in the US to tell you that. They want to live here as Mexicans and send money home.

We can debate whether that is useful or harmful to our country, but don't tell me they all want to be Americans. That's total BS.

I never said they all want to be Americans. But I do believe that at least part of the "no intention of becoming Americans" is due to the hatred and bigotry they've endured. Let's give them amnesty and see what happens.

 

[timschochet]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

Yes, you've been keenly libertarian and much like Barry Goldwater in all these other threads. Please.

How is open borders be a liberal or progressive or Democrat position?

And how is closing the border sand throwing all undocumented immigrants in the hoosegow before deporting them be the conservative or republican position?

This guy gets it.

Unfortunately, most of the people I meet today who call themselves libertarian have no idea what that means. Usually for them, it's just another way of being an extreme conservative, like Rand Paul. Like him, they are typically anti-illegal immigrant.

Libertarians take all sorts of positions on all sorts of things. The intellectual tradition of libertarianism is indeed very pro-immigrant.

But let's not pretend you -- as in, you timscochet, which is my point -- can all of the sudden adopt the banner of libertarianism when it suits. You're a big government progressive, through and through, and I've read enough threads to know that this "i'm a Goldwater-ite" schtick doesn't leave this thread about immigration intact.

I believe in free trade, open immigration, and individual liberty. For me, these are the key elements of the libertarianism that I adopted back in college. Feel free to call it whatever you want.

Yeah well Cato dot org is only a click away too.

Reason.com too. I visit them all the time. But thanks for the invitation.

 

[drummer]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

Yes, you've been keenly libertarian and much like Barry Goldwater in all these other threads. Please.

How is open borders be a liberal or progressive or Democrat position?

And how is closing the border sand throwing all undocumented immigrants in the hoosegow before deporting them be the conservative or republican position?

This guy gets it.

Unfortunately, most of the people I meet today who call themselves libertarian have no idea what that means. Usually for them, it's just another way of being an extreme conservative, like Rand Paul. Like him, they are typically anti-illegal immigrant.

Libertarians take all sorts of positions on all sorts of things. The intellectual tradition of libertarianism is indeed very pro-immigrant.

But let's not pretend you -- as in, you timscochet, which is my point -- can all of the sudden adopt the banner of libertarianism when it suits. You're a big government progressive, through and through, and I've read enough threads to know that this "i'm a Goldwater-ite" schtick doesn't leave this thread about immigration intact.

I believe in free trade, open immigration, and individual liberty. For me, these are the key elements of the libertarianism that I adopted back in college. Feel free to call it whatever you want.

Yeah well Cato dot org is only a click away too.

Reason.com too. I visit them all the time. But thanks for the invitation.

Hopefully they know how to spell California.

 

[rockaction]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

Yes, you've been keenly libertarian and much like Barry Goldwater in all these other threads. Please.

How is open borders be a liberal or progressive or Democrat position?

And how is closing the border sand throwing all undocumented immigrants in the hoosegow before deporting them be the conservative or republican position?

This guy gets it.

Unfortunately, most of the people I meet today who call themselves libertarian have no idea what that means. Usually for them, it's just another way of being an extreme conservative, like Rand Paul. Like him, they are typically anti-illegal immigrant.

Libertarians take all sorts of positions on all sorts of things. The intellectual tradition of libertarianism is indeed very pro-immigrant.

But let's not pretend you -- as in, you timscochet, which is my point -- can all of the sudden adopt the banner of libertarianism when it suits. You're a big government progressive, through and through, and I've read enough threads to know that this "i'm a Goldwater-ite" schtick doesn't leave this thread about immigration intact.

I believe in free trade, open immigration, and individual liberty. For me, these are the key elements of the libertarianism that I adopted back in college. Feel free to call it whatever you want.

Yeah well Cato dot org is only a click away too.

Reason.com too. I visit them all the time. But thanks for the invitation.

I get -- or maybe just think I get -- what he's trying to say. Most of the positions you take deviate wildly from both the intellectual tradition of libertarianism as well as its modern consensus. You've admitted to me you like David Brooks and Rachel Maddow, hardly torch-bearing libertarians (I can see Maddow's civil libertarianism on certain issues, but Brooks's "National Greatness" position is almost diametrically opposed to libertarianism).

 

[timschochet]

Oops! Thanks

 

[17seconds]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

Absolutely. Give them the chance to come here legally, and they will do so.

And please don't speak to me about how these people should have "waited in line". For most of them, there was no line.

66% of Mexican citizens living in the US are illegal

Every other country the illegal rate is less than 10%

The thing that separates Mexicans from other immigrants in my opinion (and why people dislike them so much) is that huge numbers of them have no intention of becoming Mexican-Americans. The numbers tell you that, you can witness the way they live their lives in the US to tell you that. They want to live here as Mexicans and send money home.

We can debate whether that is useful or harmful to our country, but don't tell me they all want to be Americans. That's total BS.

I never said they all want to be Americans. But I do believe that at least part of the "no intention of becoming Americans" is due to the hatred and bigotry they've endured. Let's give them amnesty and see what happens.

I think it's because they love their country and have a lot of pride in their culture, but Mexico has such a joke of a government and economy that it makes sense to break the law to earn money here.

So you end up with millions of people living somewhere for money, not because they have a love for America. That reason is detected by people in the US and the bigotry starts. The romanticized ideal of immigration to the US is a two way street - it's a desire to be American as much America embracing those people.

 

[drummer]

I'm pretty convinced this is an alias or expert trolling, but man, you make Nelson Rockefeller blush with your Republican progressivism.

I never troll. And most people who have read me here over the years can tell you that I'm extremely passionate over this issue.

But I don't see how it ties into Rockerfeller republicanism. On the contrary, my views are very consistent with those of Barry Goldwater, Rockefeller's biggest opponent in the GOP. It was Goldwater who pushed for the libertarian ideals of free trade and open borders, back in the days when libertarianism meant something quite different than it does today.

Yes, you've been keenly libertarian and much like Barry Goldwater in all these other threads. Please.

How is open borders be a liberal or progressive or Democrat position?

And how is closing the border sand throwing all undocumented immigrants in the hoosegow before deporting them be the conservative or republican position?

This guy gets it.

Unfortunately, most of the people I meet today who call themselves libertarian have no idea what that means. Usually for them, it's just another way of being an extreme conservative, like Rand Paul. Like him, they are typically anti-illegal immigrant.

Libertarians take all sorts of positions on all sorts of things. The intellectual tradition of libertarianism is indeed very pro-immigrant.

But let's not pretend you -- as in, you timscochet, which is my point -- can all of the sudden adopt the banner of libertarianism when it suits. You're a big government progressive, through and through, and I've read enough threads to know that this "i'm a Goldwater-ite" schtick doesn't leave this thread about immigration intact.

I believe in free trade, open immigration, and individual liberty. For me, these are the key elements of the libertarianism that I adopted back in college. Feel free to call it whatever you want.

Yeah well Cato dot org is only a click away too.

Reason.com too. I visit them all the time. But thanks for the invitation.

I get -- or maybe just think I get -- what he's trying to say. Most of the positions you take deviate wildly from both the intellectual tradition of libertarianism as well as its modern consensus. You've admitted to me you like David Brooks and Rachel Maddow, hardly torch-bearing libertarians (I can see Maddow's civil libertarianism on certain issues, but Brooks's "National Greatness" position is almost diametrically opposed to libertarianism).

My point is that it's easy to say your about peace, individual liberty, and free markets. Just because you can copy that from a website.

 

[drummer]

Oops! Thanks

Surprised you went a whole day without correcting it, even past my Muddy Waters clue.

 

[rockaction]

Gotcha, drummer.

 

[timschochet]

Oops! Thanks

Surprised you went a whole day without correcting it, even past my Muddy Waters clue.

I really should have picked up on that. I am a huge Muddy fan.

 

[17seconds]

and to the topic of the thread.. I'm not sure what to think of illegals getting licenses. On one hand their purpose here is completely economic so if that helps our economy in some way I guess it's good, but it bothers me a lot that we would grant US documentation to people breaking the law. Especially when legal immigrants go through so much red tape and cost to stay here and travel to and from their home country. I've got a guy who works from me who is picking up his family, changing schools for his kids, and selling his house to move to another city to stay with our company just so his green card process doesn't reset.

 

[cstu]

and to the topic of the thread.. I'm not sure what to think of illegals getting licenses. On one hand their purpose here is completely economic so if that helps our economy in some way I guess it's good, but it bothers me a lot that we would grant US documentation to people breaking the law. Especially when legal immigrants go through so much red tape and cost to stay here and travel to and from their home country. I've got a guy who works from me who is picking up his family, changing schools for his kids, and selling his house to move to another city to stay with our company just so his green card process doesn't reset.

I'm going to guess he makes a tad more than the average illegal immigrant.

 

[drummer]

and to the topic of the thread.. I'm not sure what to think of illegals getting licenses. On one hand their purpose here is completely economic so if that helps our economy in some way I guess it's good, but it bothers me a lot that we would grant US documentation to people breaking the law. Especially when legal immigrants go through so much red tape and cost to stay here and travel to and from their home country. I've got a guy who works from me who is picking up his family, changing schools for his kids, and selling his house to move to another city to stay with our company just so his green card process doesn't reset.

Well, a lot of their jobs that they either create on their own or find are dependent on individual transportation, like landscaping. Even those who have to travel to farms and ranches need to get there somehow, since there is no public transportation to rural areas. Most of them drive illegally anyway, with bogus licenses. In order for they to get a license, they should have insurance, which protects the ones who legally are here.

An illegal can cause an accident, and really not have to pay anything but incarceration and possibly get deported. The one who didn't cause it gets hosed.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

Absolutely. Give them the chance to come here legally, and they will do so.And please don't speak to me about how these people should have "waited in line". For most of them, there was no line.

66% of Mexican citizens living in the US are illegal

Every other country the illegal rate is less than 10%

The thing that separates Mexicans from other immigrants in my opinion (and why people dislike them so much) is that huge numbers of them have no intention of becoming Mexican-Americans. The numbers tell you that, you can witness the way they live their lives in the US to tell you that. They want to live here as Mexicans and send money home.

We can debate whether that is useful or harmful to our country, but don't tell me they all want to be Americans. That's total BS.

I never said they all want to be Americans. But I do believe that at least part of the "no intention of becoming Americans" is due to the hatred and bigotry they've endured. Let's give them amnesty and see what happens.

we already did. Didn't work.

 

[17seconds]

and to the topic of the thread.. I'm not sure what to think of illegals getting licenses. On one hand their purpose here is completely economic so if that helps our economy in some way I guess it's good, but it bothers me a lot that we would grant US documentation to people breaking the law. Especially when legal immigrants go through so much red tape and cost to stay here and travel to and from their home country. I've got a guy who works from me who is picking up his family, changing schools for his kids, and selling his house to move to another city to stay with our company just so his green card process doesn't reset.

I'm going to guess he makes a tad more than the average illegal immigrant.

Of course. This is about the process though, not who makes what. Legal immigrants going for green card or citizenship have to go through a lot of #### for years. This guy has a few US patents and did some significant work for that great US company, Apple. Why all the red tape for a person like that, but licenses from heaven for illegals?

 

[timschochet]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

Absolutely. Give them the chance to come here legally, and they will do so.And please don't speak to me about how these people should have "waited in line". For most of them, there was no line.

66% of Mexican citizens living in the US are illegal

Every other country the illegal rate is less than 10%

The thing that separates Mexicans from other immigrants in my opinion (and why people dislike them so much) is that huge numbers of them have no intention of becoming Mexican-Americans. The numbers tell you that, you can witness the way they live their lives in the US to tell you that. They want to live here as Mexicans and send money home.

We can debate whether that is useful or harmful to our country, but don't tell me they all want to be Americans. That's total BS.

I never said they all want to be Americans. But I do believe that at least part of the "no intention of becoming Americans" is due to the hatred and bigotry they've endured. Let's give them amnesty and see what happens.

we already did. Didn't work.

That depends on what you wanted to "work". It worked fine for me.

 

[drummer]

Why exactly are they going to get a license? So they won't be breaking the law?

Why wouldn't they? There are a bunch of sanctuary cities in California (including LA, SD, SF, etc.).

They're driving now without a license, right? Why the assumption they will rush to pay money for insurance and a license?

It's an amazing thing, but history shows that when people are given the opportunity to do things legally, they usually do.

Like immigrating?

Absolutely. Give them the chance to come here legally, and they will do so.And please don't speak to me about how these people should have "waited in line". For most of them, there was no line.

66% of Mexican citizens living in the US are illegal

Every other country the illegal rate is less than 10%

The thing that separates Mexicans from other immigrants in my opinion (and why people dislike them so much) is that huge numbers of them have no intention of becoming Mexican-Americans. The numbers tell you that, you can witness the way they live their lives in the US to tell you that. They want to live here as Mexicans and send money home.

We can debate whether that is useful or harmful to our country, but don't tell me they all want to be Americans. That's total BS.

I never said they all want to be Americans. But I do believe that at least part of the "no intention of becoming Americans" is due to the hatred and bigotry they've endured. Let's give them amnesty and see what happens.

we already did. Didn't work.

Well that depends. The Brasero program really benefited SoCal. A good friend of mine's father immigrated from Mexico due to that program. His father now resides back in Mexico, after retiring from his landscaping business.

He and his wife's children did well too. Two of them have PhD's, with another working towards one. All without any help from the Government, outside of the Brasero program.

 

[Wooderson]

<_<

I am sooooo glad I don't live there anymore. I've been gone 7 years and I haven't regretted a single second of it.

Where did you move to?

His profile says Georgia. Now I have never been to Georgia but from what I know I would take California at least NorCal where I'm at before that place. People complain about Cali but man is it an awesome place to live. Been here about 7 years.