Calling all the Reggie Bush pimps (1 Viewer)

[switz]

Seems to me they ARE being used in almost exactly the same way. Neither of them gets a ton of up the gut carries, but they both get a few here and there. Both get a lot of passes in the flat, both are split out wide to run deeper routes, etc. The real difference is that Westbrook CAN run (outside, inside, whatever), and Bush can't. In general, Westbrook is vastly more productive (because of his running ability).

I agree that Westbrook is more productive. My argument was with the fellow who insisted that for Bush to be viewed as "good" he needed to be a between the tackles runner. That's not the issue at all. If Bush can be more effective running outside and off-tackle, he'll be "good". Between the tackle running is not a required component of his repertoire for him to be "good". Rarely does Westbrook get a traditional power run in between the tackles, a lot of his between the tackle runs are on draw plays.As for play calling versus good running. Part of it IS play calling... but part of it is Bush as well. He needs to be more authoritative... his shoulder dips and stutter steps work in the open field, but not at or behind the LOS. Too often he's at the edge, and inside of bursting around the corner, he stutter steps, and in slowing down gets tackled.

 

[valhallan]

This isn't about playcalling - New Orleans is doing the best they can.

X

 

[Afro Samurai]

It's about Bush and the fact that he can't seem to consistently get any kind of yardage against NFL defenses.

163 yards in week 1, 91 in week 2 (not counting punt return yardage of course)That's over 250 yards (again, excluding punt returns) in 2 games. Sounds pretty darn good to me.....

 

[Afro Samurai]

This isn't about playcalling - New Orleans is doing the best they can.

X

+1Payton really needs to hire a real offensive coordinator. I think he has a good offensive mind but is too preoccupied on trying to look pretty which takes the entire team out of the more fundamental aspects of the game.

 

[Chaka]

I agree, but I think people also don't like him simply because he went to USC.

I think some people like to be different, and then promote themselves for it. How many people were down on Peterson and McFadden as well? They didn't go to USC, but they were largely viewed as the best backs coming out, so some people had to find an argument against them... looking pretty foolish now.Caveat - Even I preferred Lynch to Peterson, due to Lynch's versatility and durability, but I would never argue Peterson was bad at this point. That's as foolish as people arguing Bush stinks, or Maroney is better.

Maybe I haven't spent enough time in those threads but I don't see nearly as many detractors for those guys as for Reggie.But there are lots of different reasons, rational or fabricated, to not like a particular player.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

It's about Bush and the fact that he can't seem to consistently get any kind of yardage against NFL defenses.

163 yards in week 1, 91 in week 2 (not counting punt return yardage of course)That's over 250 yards (again, excluding punt returns) in 2 games. Sounds pretty darn good to me.....

We were talking exclusively about rushing yardage. I've already said his receiving has been improved so far this year. But hey, feel free to but in and spout things everyone knows already.

 

[Afro Samurai]

We were talking exclusively about rushing yardage.

Why? Because it happens to suit your argument? Again, this goes back to that little "box" that you and other people want him to fit into.The fact is, Bush has over 250 yards from scrimmage in 2 games this season and has been very effective as his team's primary offensive weapon. I'm sorry that you don't see the value in it, but that doesn't make him a bad player. Quite the contrary, actually. It makes him a very valuable player. If you can't understand that at this point, there's very little I can say to help you.

 

[((Morpheus))]

Bush is not the prototype NFL back, but he is one hell of a football player.

 

[Chaka]

It's about Bush and the fact that he can't seem to consistently get any kind of yardage against NFL defenses.

163 yards in week 1, 91 in week 2 (not counting punt return yardage of course)

That's over 250 yards (again, excluding punt returns) in 2 games. Sounds pretty darn good to me.....

We were talking exclusively about rushing yardage. I've already said his receiving has been improved so far this year. But hey, feel free to but in and spout things everyone knows already.

Um...no, you're not.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

This isn't about playcalling - New Orleans is doing the best they can.

X

The playcalling was working REALLY well when Deuce McAllister was healthy and running the ball.The New Orleans offense is a good offense. It would just be much better if Bush were a better runner. Or if they had a DIFFERENT runner as their primary ball-carrier and Bush was being used more on returns and as a COP. Eventually, I think that will happen.

Fellas, I am done here. Kinda regret diving in. It was that darn Westbrook comparison. I just found it ironic because Westbrook is the kind of player Bush is SUPPOSED to be but isn't.

It's all been said before and time will tell. Most folks are content that Bush is producing big numbers for them right now and I can't blame them. I don't see those numbers being sustainable for the reasons I've mentioned, but so far, as everyone has pointed out, things are great for Bush and his owners in fantasy land and it's hard to argue against that.

 

[switz]

Maybe I haven't spent enough time in those threads but I don't see nearly as many detractors for those guys as for Reggie.

Peterson - at this point, anyone would be an idiot to argue about him...McFadden - you're just missing the threads...Bush gets the most, but that's because he's struggled the most of them. It's not that he hasn't been good, but he's struggled in some aspect enough to give the doubters an opening. Honestly, I think even if he rushed for 2,000 yards, they'd say he stinks, that it was only due to big plays or something like that.

 

[Afro Samurai]

Bush is not the prototype NFL back, but he is one hell of a football player.

[/thread]

 

[massraider]

Maybe I haven't spent enough time in those threads but I don't see nearly as many detractors for those guys as for Reggie.

Peterson - at this point, anyone would be an idiot to argue about him...McFadden - you're just missing the threads...



Bush gets the most, but that's because he's struggled the most of them. It's not that he hasn't been good, but he's struggled in some aspect enough to give the doubters an opening. Honestly, I think even if he rushed for 2,000 yards, they'd say he stinks, that it was only due to big plays or something like that.

Another factor: There was an ungodly amount of hype and argument surrounding Bush. Definitely a backlash.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

It's about Bush and the fact that he can't seem to consistently get any kind of yardage against NFL defenses.

163 yards in week 1, 91 in week 2 (not counting punt return yardage of course)

That's over 250 yards (again, excluding punt returns) in 2 games. Sounds pretty darn good to me.....

We were talking exclusively about rushing yardage. I've already said his receiving has been improved so far this year. But hey, feel free to but in and spout things everyone knows already.

Um...no, you're not.

Taken in context it was pretty clear:

The real difference is that Westbrook CAN run (outside, inside, whatever), and Bush can't. In general, Westbrook is vastly more productive (because of his running ability).

This isn't about playcalling - New Orleans is doing the best they can. It's about Bush and the fact that he can't seem to consistently get any kind of yardage against NFL defenses.

 

[TheFanatic]

You seem like the type that absolutely postively MUST have the last word, so go ahead. I'm done here.

I think the problem certain people have with him is that they want to fit him in this nice little "running back" box. But he's not that kind of player. People just need to get used to the fact that he's not a conventional player and appreciate all the amazing things he can do instead of the one thing he can't.I don't care what you call him. Running back, wide receiver, slash, whatever. The point is he's very effective at creating offense and moving the chains and he's clearly the best offensive weapon on his team. I have no earthly idea why some people seem oblivious to that.

163 yards in week 1, 91 in week 2 (not counting punt return yardage of course)That's over 250 yards (again, excluding punt returns) in 2 games. Sounds pretty darn good to me.....

+1Payton really needs to hire a real offensive coordinator. I think he has a good offensive mind but is too preoccupied on trying to look pretty which takes the entire team out of the more fundamental aspects of the game.

Why? Because it happens to suit your argument? Again, this goes back to that little "box" that you and other people want him to fit into.The fact is, Bush has over 250 yards from scrimmage in 2 games this season and has been very effective as his team's primary offensive weapon. I'm sorry that you don't see the value in it, but that doesn't make him a bad player. Quite the contrary, actually. It makes him a very valuable player. If you can't understand that at this point, there's very little I can say to help you.

[/thread]

 

[coolnerd]

Maybe I haven't spent enough time in those threads but I don't see nearly as many detractors for those guys as for Reggie.

Peterson - at this point, anyone would be an idiot to argue about him...McFadden - you're just missing the threads...Bush gets the most, but that's because he's struggled the most of them. It's not that he hasn't been good, but he's struggled in some aspect enough to give the doubters an opening. Honestly, I think even if he rushed for 2,000 yards, they'd say he stinks, that it was only due to big plays or something like that.

this debate goes pre-draft. if one were to go back and pull up stuff from then there were posters on this board saying that Bush was more playmaker than running back. some though that he would grow into a more traditional give him 22 zone reads a game back, while others thought he is what he is.

 

[Afro Samurai]

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[TheFanatic]

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: TheFanatic.· View this post· Un-ignore TheFanatic

Ouch. I'm crushed. Does that mean no more petty name calling?

 

[Afro Samurai]

Another factor: There was an ungodly amount of hype and argument surrounding Bush. Definitely a backlash.

Obviously, but that seems like a pretty stupid reason to hate a guy. It's not like he's always going around talking about how great he is or anything like that.I would hope that most people on a site like this would be able to look past the media hype (which is completely out of RB's control) and still be able to see him for the outstanding player that he is, but I guess that's probably expecting a little too much.

 

[CASS101]

FUN FACT:

In games where Reggie Bush has carried the ball 15 times or more he has averaged 4.2 ypc.

Do that same calculation for all of the other backs in the league. See what kind of numbers you get.

Now why would I need to do that?

Because you would likely find that when you cherry pick good games (like games where things were going well and a back got a lot of carries), MOST GUY's stats go up.It's very much like when every year somebody says "When Joe Blow back gets X carries, the team always wins." No, it's more likely that when the team is winning, they are much more likely to run the ball.

Look at DeShaun Foster, that stud. It's easier to look at the inverse (but gives the same insight), so I'll do that. In the 5 games he had less than 15 carries he was sitting at 2.68 YPC. What happens when we remove those games? POOF, he's a magically respectable runner!

Shaun Alexander, who had a terrible season was even worse when he got less than 15 carries (3.25). Take those away, PRESTO - slightly less over the hill!

Rudi Johnson in games where had less than 15 carries last year? 2.24 YPC. Ouch. If only the coaches could have eliminated those games from their memories, he may not have been canned this year!

Ahman Green, had 3.13 in low carry games and 4.0 in high carry games.

Those kind of results are fairly (not perfectly, but fairly) consistent. You take a bad runner (or a guy who had a bad season), you throw out all of the games that weren't going well, and he looks better. And it isn't even that hard to figure out. You take a ball carrier who is consistently putting his team in a hole in the first quarter, and bingo, he tends not to get a lot of carries in that game. Why? Well, the coaches don't like to start at 2nd and 10 for one thing (go figure), and eventually that team NEEDS to pass because they get behind (because the offense isn't moving).

See, the thing is.....I didn't cherry pick anything. You are looking at this backwards. Here are the facts: Reggie Bush averaged 3.6 ypc the last 2 years --- He also averaged 4.2 ypc in games where he gets 15 or more carries.

That is .6 more ypc when he gets a decent workload. The facts prove that Reggie Bush is more effective when he gets more carries per game by a significant margin. Below is the data for the other backs you listed minus A.Green, as the sample size was just too small for him. These numbers indicate a slightly better ypc for 2 of the 3 when carrying the ball more per game, but not nearly as a wide of a margin as Bush, thus proving my point.

DeShaun Foster averaged 3.5 ypc in 2007 --- He also averaged 3.7 ypc in the 11 out of 16 games in which he had 15 or more carries.

Rudi Johnson averaged 2.9 ypc in 2007 --- He also averaged 3.1 ypc in the 6 out of 11 games in which he had 15 or more carries.

Shaun Alexander averaged 3.5 ypc in 2007 --- He also averaged 3.5 ypc in the 6 out of 13 games in which he had 15 or more carries.

 

[Chaka]

FUN FACT:

In games where Reggie Bush has carried the ball 15 times or more he has averaged 4.2 ypc.

Do that same calculation for all of the other backs in the league. See what kind of numbers you get.

Now why would I need to do that?

Because you would likely find that when you cherry pick good games (like games where things were going well and a back got a lot of carries), MOST GUY's stats go up.It's very much like when every year somebody says "When Joe Blow back gets X carries, the team always wins." No, it's more likely that when the team is winning, they are much more likely to run the ball.

Look at DeShaun Foster, that stud. It's easier to look at the inverse (but gives the same insight), so I'll do that. In the 5 games he had less than 15 carries he was sitting at 2.68 YPC. What happens when we remove those games? POOF, he's a magically respectable runner!

Shaun Alexander, who had a terrible season was even worse when he got less than 15 carries (3.25). Take those away, PRESTO - slightly less over the hill!

Rudi Johnson in games where had less than 15 carries last year? 2.24 YPC. Ouch. If only the coaches could have eliminated those games from their memories, he may not have been canned this year!

Ahman Green, had 3.13 in low carry games and 4.0 in high carry games.

Those kind of results are fairly (not perfectly, but fairly) consistent. You take a bad runner (or a guy who had a bad season), you throw out all of the games that weren't going well, and he looks better. And it isn't even that hard to figure out. You take a ball carrier who is consistently putting his team in a hole in the first quarter, and bingo, he tends not to get a lot of carries in that game. Why? Well, the coaches don't like to start at 2nd and 10 for one thing (go figure), and eventually that team NEEDS to pass because they get behind (because the offense isn't moving).

See, the thing is.....I didn't cherry pick anything. You are looking at this backwards. Here are the facts: Reggie Bush averaged 3.6 ypc the last 2 years --- He also averaged 4.2 ypc in games where he gets 15 or more carries.

That is .6 more ypc when he gets a decent workload. The facts prove that Reggie Bush is more effective when he gets more carries per game by a significant margin. Below is the data for the other backs you listed minus A.Green, as the sample size was just too small for him. These numbers indicate a slightly better ypc for 2 of the 3 when carrying the ball more per game, but not nearly as a wide of a margin as Bush, thus proving my point.

DeShaun Foster averaged 3.5 ypc in 2007 --- He also averaged 3.7 ypc in the 11 out of 16 games in which he had 15 or more carries.

Rudi Johnson averaged 2.9 ypc in 2007 --- He also averaged 3.1 ypc in the 6 out of 11 games in which he had 15 or more carries.

Shaun Alexander averaged 3.5 ypc in 2007 --- He also averaged 3.5 ypc in the 6 out of 13 games in which he had 15 or more carries.

This is an interesting exercise and I would like to see data for running backs in general (not just cherry picked) when they reach the arbitrary threshold of 15 carries in a game.For fun I looked at game logs for Barry Sanders because he was tackled for a loss more than any RB in NFL history, a similar complaint used against Reggie.

In 26 career games with under 15 carries Barry had 306 carries, 1054 yards and a 3.4 YPC.

Good Lord he sucked.

 

[eliasartigue]

He's producing and its still early... ? Why be down on Bush at this point? Doesn't make sense? It's one thing to criticize his yards per carry but to question his production this year is ludicrous.

He's had decent production, just not as a RB. Although he is on pace to beat his previous season high in rushing. But then again, he only needs 600 yards to do that.Seriously though, it seems he has really stepped up his receiving skills as his YPR is almost double what it was last year. But the problem is that he supposedly worked all offseason to try to become a better inside runner and that, it would seem, is never going to happen.

I see your point ....But just to be fair though, Pierre Thomas in 4 less carries (Bush had 10) averaged 1.3 a carry (Bush 2.8). Maybe it has something to do with NO's offensive line? Maybe the Redskins are a decent run defensive team?

We'll see...

For those of you who feel Bush will never be a decent runner need to watch the games more closely. He can never be a Westbrook because the Oline suks. The line is built to pass protect not run block which is why our running average is so low no matter who put in there. There are no holes to run through. Put Bush behind Minnesota, Dallas, or Phillys OLine and he would produce a hell of a lot more than he is now.Look here and you can see

http://198.104.135.225/forums/showthread.php?t=83678

As for FF PPR leagues Bush is golden and will continue to be. IF we had an Oline liek the aboved mentioned he would be stellar in non PPR but its not so if you have Bush you are doing pretty good so far and should continue to do so. I have Bush and Cutler in one league- highest scorer second week running , and Brees and Cutler in another. I started Brees in week 2 but will bench him in favor of Cutler this week. I am also 2-0. I am a Saints fan but I play in money leagues so I don't have to have a Saint player on my team but I know how to draft and if the value is there I run with it.

 

[TheFanatic]

He's producing and its still early... ? Why be down on Bush at this point? Doesn't make sense? It's one thing to criticize his yards per carry but to question his production this year is ludicrous.

He's had decent production, just not as a RB. Although he is on pace to beat his previous season high in rushing. But then again, he only needs 600 yards to do that.Seriously though, it seems he has really stepped up his receiving skills as his YPR is almost double what it was last year. But the problem is that he supposedly worked all offseason to try to become a better inside runner and that, it would seem, is never going to happen.

I see your point ....But just to be fair though, Pierre Thomas in 4 less carries (Bush had 10) averaged 1.3 a carry (Bush 2.8). Maybe it has something to do with NO's offensive line? Maybe the Redskins are a decent run defensive team?

We'll see...

For those of you who feel Bush will never be a decent runner need to watch the games more closely. He can never be a Westbrook because the Oline suks. The line is built to pass protect not run block which is why our running average is so low no matter who put in there. There are no holes to run through. Put Bush behind Minnesota, Dallas, or Phillys OLine and he would produce a hell of a lot more than he is now.Look here and you can see

http://198.104.135.225/forums/showthread.php?t=83678

As for FF PPR leagues Bush is golden and will continue to be. IF we had an Oline liek the aboved mentioned he would be stellar in non PPR but its not so if you have Bush you are doing pretty good so far and should continue to do so. I have Bush and Cutler in one league- highest scorer second week running , and Brees and Cutler in another. I started Brees in week 2 but will bench him in favor of Cutler this week. I am also 2-0. I am a Saints fan but I play in money leagues so I don't have to have a Saint player on my team but I know how to draft and if the value is there I run with it.

Then why have other RB's on the roster out run him behind that bad O-Line? P. Thomas, Stecker and Deuce all have. This is not a valid argument...

 

[kingmalaki]

Bush is a solid football player but average at running the ball. He does other things well to offset his poor rushing ability, and in the 2 games this season he has displayed big-play ability (something he wasn't that consistent at prior to this year). The big-play ability does help his team win games. However, I don't see how anyone can argue that his lack of success rushing doesn't hurt his team at times. It's nice to have a weapon like him but I'm sure the Saints would like it if he were able to rush effectively, and I'm pretty sure they expected more from him in that department when they drafted him #2.

Either way he definitely has not lived up to the hype he got when drafted (i.e. next great back)...but then again, who really does? From a FF perspective, he is money as long as you get PPR. From a purely football perspective, he is a solid player but I think other teams would rather have more traditional backs like AP, Lynch, McFadden, Gore, etc (i.e. guys that can run).

 

[Road Warriors]

This isn't about playcalling - New Orleans is doing the best they can.

X

The playcalling was working REALLY well when Deuce McAllister was healthy and running the ball.The New Orleans offense is a good offense. It would just be much better if Bush were a better runner. Or if they had a DIFFERENT runner as their primary ball-carrier and Bush was being used more on returns and as a COP. Eventually, I think that will happen.

Fellas, I am done here. Kinda regret diving in. It was that darn Westbrook comparison. I just found it ironic because Westbrook is the kind of player Bush is SUPPOSED to be but isn't.

It's all been said before and time will tell. Most folks are content that Bush is producing big numbers for them right now and I can't blame them. I don't see those numbers being sustainable for the reasons I've mentioned, but so far, as everyone has pointed out, things are great for Bush and his owners in fantasy land and it's hard to argue against that.

Westbrook 1st 3 years: (discarded rookie year)117/613/7 rush 37/332/4 recv (2003)

177/812/3 rush 73/703/6 recv (2004)

156/617/3 rush 61/616/4 recv (2005)

Bush 1st 2 years:

155/565/6 rush 88/742/2 recv (2006)

157/581/4 rush 73/417/2 recv (2007)

It looks like similar type players to me, with Westbrook being a bit better in YPC. Bush has the ability to be a 1200-1500 yard, 10 TD player with a fairly even split rushing receiving. I don't know if he'll progress as a runner as Wesbrook did to become a primary back, but even without that he's an effective offensive player.

As for breakout, Bush is breakout in FFL (ppr) this year, but not a breakout NFL player, IMO. He's just a nice option that creates matchup problems for the opposition.

 

[switz]

Then why have other RB's on the roster out run him behind that bad O-Line? P. Thomas, Stecker and Deuce all have. This is not a valid argument...

Stecker hasn't even touched the ball this season.Pierre Thomas just averaged 1.3 YPC this last game, his YPC on the season is 3.8, Bush's is 3.3... I'm not sure how you can say Thomas has "outrun" Bush... none of the Saints RBs are touching 4.0 YPC this season. Last season Thomas had a 4.8 YPC, but it was a very small sample size... this season is a small sample size as well, so it's rather difficult to draw any conclusion, much less an adamant conclusion of which RB is "outrunning" the other...Mind you, last season Thomas only saw 2 games with a significant amount of carries (and I use that term loosely)... 12 carries against CAR in which he averaged a whopping 2.7 YPC (Bush 3.6)20 carries against CHI in the last game, 5.3 YPC (Bush did not play) - mind you CHI was 24th in rushing yards allowed, and 23rd in YPC allowed, and it was the last game of the season... meaningless.It's pretty hard to say Thomas has "outrun" Bush...Stecker's YPC in '07 was 3.9, which is why Thomas even got looks... hard to say he was "outrunning" Bush either....None of the Saints RBs have looked particularly good running the ball, to be frank.

 

[Chaka]

Westbrook 1st 3 years: (discarded rookie year)117/613/7 rush 37/332/4 recv (2003)177/812/3 rush 73/703/6 recv (2004)156/617/3 rush 61/616/4 recv (2005)Bush 1st 2 years:155/565/6 rush 88/742/2 recv (2006)157/581/4 rush 73/417/2 recv (2007) It looks like similar type players to me, with Westbrook being a bit better in YPC.

Westbrook had a 5.2, 4.6 & 4.0 yards/carry and 9.0, 9.6 & 10.1 yards/reception compared to Bush's 3.6, 3.7 & 8.4, 5.7.That's more than a bit better.

 

[TheFanatic]

Then why have other RB's on the roster out run him behind that bad O-Line? P. Thomas, Stecker and Deuce all have. This is not a valid argument...

Stecker hasn't even touched the ball this season.Pierre Thomas just averaged 1.3 YPC this last game, his YPC on the season is 3.8, Bush's is 3.3... I'm not sure how you can say Thomas has "outrun" Bush... none of the Saints RBs are touching 4.0 YPC this season. Last season Thomas had a 4.8 YPC, but it was a very small sample size... this season is a small sample size as well, so it's rather difficult to draw any conclusion, much less an adamant conclusion of which RB is "outrunning" the other...Mind you, last season Thomas only saw 2 games with a significant amount of carries (and I use that term loosely)... 12 carries against CAR in which he averaged a whopping 2.7 YPC (Bush 3.6)20 carries against CHI in the last game, 5.3 YPC (Bush did not play) - mind you CHI was 24th in rushing yards allowed, and 23rd in YPC allowed, and it was the last game of the season... meaningless.It's pretty hard to say Thomas has "outrun" Bush...Stecker's YPC in '07 was 3.9, which is why Thomas even got looks... hard to say he was "outrunning" Bush either....None of the Saints RBs have looked particularly good running the ball, to be frank.

Last year. Fire down there trigger. Everyone has looked like #### behind that line this year

 

[Blackjacks]

This is just amusing how for the last three years people that liked Reggie have continued to and people who didn't haven't changed their minds either. A bunch of close minded people I guess, myself included.

I'll just keep cheering for him I guess.

PS: Name calling is name calling fanatic and for you to say you don't do it.....well, I can go back and pull up many of post to prove you wrong. Don't be a hypocrite.

Go Reggie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[switz]

Then why have other RB's on the roster out run him behind that bad O-Line? P. Thomas, Stecker and Deuce all have. This is not a valid argument...

Stecker hasn't even touched the ball this season.

Pierre Thomas just averaged 1.3 YPC this last game, his YPC on the season is 3.8, Bush's is 3.3... I'm not sure how you can say Thomas has "outrun" Bush... none of the Saints RBs are touching 4.0 YPC this season.

Last season Thomas had a 4.8 YPC, but it was a very small sample size... this season is a small sample size as well, so it's rather difficult to draw any conclusion, much less an adamant conclusion of which RB is "outrunning" the other...

Mind you, last season Thomas only saw 2 games with a significant amount of carries (and I use that term loosely)...

12 carries against CAR in which he averaged a whopping 2.7 YPC (Bush 3.6)

20 carries against CHI in the last game, 5.3 YPC (Bush did not play) - mind you CHI was 24th in rushing yards allowed, and 23rd in YPC allowed, and it was the last game of the season... meaningless.

It's pretty hard to say Thomas has "outrun" Bush...

Stecker's YPC in '07 was 3.9, which is why Thomas even got looks... hard to say he was "outrunning" Bush either....

None of the Saints RBs have looked particularly good running the ball, to be frank.

Last year. Fire down there trigger. Everyone has looked like #### behind that line this year

I included last year buddy...

 

[drew726]

I have him in a PPR league AND i get 1 point for 10 yard punt returns. Yeah, he's a monster.

 

[higgins]

Oh, yeah? Well you're a poopie pants.

 

[midnightxxxx]

OK I will bite on this, chew it up and spit this back out

The guy is worth his cost and average draft position is a fantastic value.

I have Reggie and I think he is phenomenal for my league format and more importantly because of the way I put my dynasty ppr team together. Let me explain:

Year to date on 2 games is 6th best RB in scoring

Year to date on 2 games is 17th overall in scoring

32 points in week 1

15 points in week 2

45 points overall

-a virual lock for 85 to 90 receptions (comparable receptions to most WR#1 positions)

-rushing yards are pure gravy I drafted this guy for another WR on my team in a RB slot.

Isolate the sentence above and bold it, underline it, italcise it and memorize it.

In a PPR league the guy is a beast especially with the right draft strategy. I do not buy into the stud RB theory here or anywhere else. Outside of a very few limited backs most teams are RBBC, and the ones that are not will soon be once the main feature back goes down with an injury. I think a lot of receiving backs complemented with stud WR and stud TE is the way to go. It has proven to me to be a great way to offset other teams who prefer the dull and boring lets pound it down the throat mentality. My team has Wayne, Owens, Jennings and Gates and it provides a more than decent chance that one or more of those guys goes beserk to offset the point differential between me and any other team.

Do not underestimate Bush because his receptions are his value as a RB, not his yards per carry. Every post I have read says he cant run this or run that his value is not again in his rushing yards. If you drafted him for his rushing yards then shame on you for not doing your research and understanding what his role and value is to most owners. When Bree's stops throwing him the ball I will join you in saying his value has changed but untill then go post in another topic ok

 

[Pyscho Wife]

 

[two_dollars]

 

[valhallan]

Doing his best MJD impression, eh?

 

[NatronIsMean]

You know what they say, the 3rd year is the break out year for RB's! Oh, wait that's for WR's. Considering his rushing numbers and his recieving numbers it would seem that Bush should switch to 85 and hang up the number 25:

Season	  Team	   	Rushing	  Receiving	  Fumbles						   G 	GS 	Att 	Yds 	Avg 	Lng 	TD 	Rec 	Yds 	Avg 	Lng 	TD 	FUM 	Lost2008 	New Orleans Saints 	2 	2 	24 	79 	3.3 	26 	0 	15 	175 	11.7 	42T 	1 	-- 	--

Getting owned today. How many RBs will have Bush outscored through three weeks after today? Especially in a PPR league?! Calling all Bush haters, thoughts? These threads are lame for so many reasons. Sheesh.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

This is just amusing how for the last three years people that liked Reggie have continued to and people who didn't haven't changed their minds either. A bunch of close minded people I guess, myself included.I'll just keep cheering for him I guess.PS: Name calling is name calling fanatic and for you to say you don't do it.....well, I can go back and pull up many of post to prove you wrong. Don't be a hypocrite.Go Reggie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought he would be a poor mans Warrick Dunn. I thought higher of him than that coming into the year. So count me in the converted.

 

[BigRed]

I liked him for PPR this year, but wasn't figuring on 8-10 catches a game. friggin Bush. friggin Colston. friggin etc.

 

[p00h]

For the record, he is not just gold in PPR leagues. He might be #1 in PPR leagues, but I have him in standard league and in a TD heavy league, and he is carrying both teams for me. I do get the Special Team TDs in both of those leagues though...

Bottom line is this. The Saints O is SIGNIFICANTLY better with him in there. SIGNIFICANTLY. The goal of a NFL team is not to 'run between the tackles' or to 'have a traditional rb' The goal is to win games, and he gives them a chance to win games. If you think Pierre thomas, or Steckler, or Duece in there in place of Bush gives them a better chance to win, well then I'll have some of what you're having...

 

[millertyme1]

Thanks for the gift in Round 2. Unreal.

 

[MCguidance]

For the record, he is not just gold in PPR leagues. He might be #1 in PPR leagues, but I have him in standard league and in a TD heavy league, and he is carrying both teams for me. I do get the Special Team TDs in both of those leagues though...Bottom line is this. The Saints O is SIGNIFICANTLY better with him in there. SIGNIFICANTLY. The goal of a NFL team is not to 'run between the tackles' or to 'have a traditional rb' The goal is to win games, and he gives them a chance to win games. If you think Pierre thomas, or Steckler, or Duece in there in place of Bush gives them a better chance to win, well then I'll have some of what you're having...

Good post. Serious question, why wasn't he in there on the goalline late in the first half? I was surprised to see that.

 

[Gadfly]

Thanks for the gift in Round 2. Unreal.

You mean Round 4

 

[NatronIsMean]

Thanks for the gift in Round 2. Unreal.

I've never been a Reggie Bush guy at all, but he was sitting there at the last pick of round 2, first of round 3 (10 teamer). Are you kidding?! At the same time, it was between him and Michael Turner... I couldn't have gone wrong per se...Another quick thought - how do you not consider starting Pierre Thomas also at the flex in good matchups? I was very close to doing so today, and 2 TDs later it wouldn't have hurt. It's nice right now to have these guys. I hope this continues - and that the defense of NO continues to suck!

 

[p00h]

For the record, he is not just gold in PPR leagues. He might be #1 in PPR leagues, but I have him in standard league and in a TD heavy league, and he is carrying both teams for me. I do get the Special Team TDs in both of those leagues though...Bottom line is this. The Saints O is SIGNIFICANTLY better with him in there. SIGNIFICANTLY. The goal of a NFL team is not to 'run between the tackles' or to 'have a traditional rb' The goal is to win games, and he gives them a chance to win games. If you think Pierre thomas, or Steckler, or Duece in there in place of Bush gives them a better chance to win, well then I'll have some of what you're having...

Good post. Serious question, why wasn't he in there on the goalline late in the first half? I was surprised to see that.

I think Bush owners have to resign to the fact that he will not be in there in goalline situations. Although this Pierre Thomas didn't show me much today. Everyone around here's been touting him as the next coming of Jim Brown or something. Meh.

 

[fasteddie_21]

I fear to think where my teams would be w/o Bush. I got ridiculed taking him in the 2nd in 3 of my 4 teams.

 

[moleculo]

settle down...Denver hasn't stopped anyone since 2006 at the latest.

 

[fasteddie_21]

settle down...Denver hasn't stopped anyone since 2006 at the latest.

I didn't know they played Denver in weeks 1 and 2 too.

 

[p00h]

settle down...Denver hasn't stopped anyone since 2006 at the latest.

Right, and bush has only played Denver this year...

 

[Blackjacks]

Hey Fanatic, how was Bush today in your eyes?

4.1 avg. a carry compared to the great P. Thomas at 2.5. I s Reggie finally the man now in your eyes?

I mean he's only a top 5 rb at this point in non ppr