Calvin? (1 Viewer)

[FF Wiseguy]

Exactly. It's pretty amazing stuff. Calvin may be one of, if not the the greatest athlete in NFL history. Who has ever jumped over 3 guys on a regular basis to catch the ball? It's ridiculous.

I keep telling people but they don't wanna hear.... Im gonna say it here, He is the LEBRON JAMES of Football... No matter if you hate Lebron or love him you can relate to what im talking about..... This is in their physical Beastlyness, or freakish athletic ability. Both players are the most athletic EVER in their respective sports, and it's not even really close.

I think the comparisons of LeBron vs. MJ and Calvin vs. Rice are incredibly similar. They're athletic ability and ability to completely dominate a game are totally unparalleled. But both at this point in there careers have a long way to go to overtake the best ever (Lebron less so than Calvin). Also, I think MJ and Rice have intangibles that mitigate some of the gap in physical ability. Mostly, they're the most competitive a-holes ever to play their sport and that allowed them to elevate every part of their play - practice, season, playoffs, championships - to a level that couldn't really be matched. I guess their emotional beastliness rivals Lebron/Calvin's physical beastliness.

This is a pretty good point, as well. Swap minds and bodies and I wonder how they'd do. I think it's closer with Calvin and Rice, though. Calvin seems to work pretty hard at what he does (from all reports). But Rice worked even harder. Some WRs train with Rice even today and say his workouts are insane. And Rice isn't even pushing it like he used to.

Yeah, it's certainly not a knock on LeBron and Calvin, who I'm certain are one of the most hard-working, dedicated, competitive in the league. But it's not like MJ and Rice were physically unimposing, but overcame it with their determination. They were also top physical specimens, but in comparison to LeBron and Calvin, they look pretty average.

I'm sure LeBron and Calvin are very competitive, but they are also normal human beings who enjoy life and are somewhat healthy emotionally. MJ and Rice were just on another level, the kind of guys who would take a game of checkers or dancing with the stars way too seriously.

 

[CalBear]

In his career, Johnson already has three seasons with 5 or fewer TDs. Jerry Rice had one of those as a rookie. He didn't have another one until he was 37 years old (excepting the year he missed).

122 receptions, 5 TDs? Not the greatest of all time.

Kitna, a rookie Stafford, and a down year by Stafford where he just missed out on a bunch of TD's.

Give the guy Montana like Rice had and he blows the lid off the record books.

That's what we heard about Randy Moss, too. It might have been, but until it is, it's not.

Until, after 9 seasons, he had 47td's in his first 48 games with Brady including the single-season record? At ages 30-32.

Moss was an amazing talent. But the "who would you rather have to win one game?" line falls flat when, in his only Super Bowl, Moss had a mediocre game and lost. In fact, in his last 10 postseason games Moss failed to top 70 yards.

If you want to be the greatest of all time, you have to actually do it on the field. Having an amazing body isn't enough.

 

[T with T]

Exactly. It's pretty amazing stuff. Calvin may be one of, if not the the greatest athlete in NFL history. Who has ever jumped over 3 guys on a regular basis to catch the ball? It's ridiculous.

I keep telling people but they don't wanna hear.... Im gonna say it here, He is the LEBRON JAMES of Football... No matter if you hate Lebron or love him you can relate to what im talking about..... This is in their physical Beastlyness, or freakish athletic ability. Both players are the most athletic EVER in their respective sports, and it's not even really close.

I think the comparisons of LeBron vs. MJ and Calvin vs. Rice are incredibly similar. They're athletic ability and ability to completely dominate a game are totally unparalleled. But both at this point in there careers have a long way to go to overtake the best ever (Lebron less so than Calvin). Also, I think MJ and Rice have intangibles that mitigate some of the gap in physical ability. Mostly, they're the most competitive a-holes ever to play their sport and that allowed them to elevate every part of their play - practice, season, playoffs, championships - to a level that couldn't really be matched. I guess their emotional beastliness rivals Lebron/Calvin's physical beastliness.

This is a pretty good point, as well. Swap minds and bodies and I wonder how they'd do. I think it's closer with Calvin and Rice, though. Calvin seems to work pretty hard at what he does (from all reports). But Rice workouts were legendary. Some WRs train with Rice even today and say his workouts are insane. And Rice isn't even pushing it like he used to.

I hear what your saying but They say Calvin doesn't take his chin strap off once in practice... He is a workout warrior and hardest worker on team. I would have a hard time saying Rice was better at offseason workouts, practice, weight room, running, jump rope, boxing etc. to add to what Calvin does on an off/in season.

 

[T with T]

Exactly. It's pretty amazing stuff. Calvin may be one of, if not the the greatest athlete in NFL history. Who has ever jumped over 3 guys on a regular basis to catch the ball? It's ridiculous.

I keep telling people but they don't wanna hear.... Im gonna say it here, He is the LEBRON JAMES of Football... No matter if you hate Lebron or love him you can relate to what im talking about..... This is in their physical Beastlyness, or freakish athletic ability. Both players are the most athletic EVER in their respective sports, and it's not even really close.

I think the comparisons of LeBron vs. MJ and Calvin vs. Rice are incredibly similar. They're athletic ability and ability to completely dominate a game are totally unparalleled. But both at this point in there careers have a long way to go to overtake the best ever (Lebron less so than Calvin). Also, I think MJ and Rice have intangibles that mitigate some of the gap in physical ability. Mostly, they're the most competitive a-holes ever to play their sport and that allowed them to elevate every part of their play - practice, season, playoffs, championships - to a level that couldn't really be matched. I guess their emotional beastliness rivals Lebron/Calvin's physical beastliness.

This is a pretty good point, as well. Swap minds and bodies and I wonder how they'd do. I think it's closer with Calvin and Rice, though. Calvin seems to work pretty hard at what he does (from all reports). But Rice worked even harder. Some WRs train with Rice even today and say his workouts are insane. And Rice isn't even pushing it like he used to.

Yeah, it's certainly not a knock on LeBron and Calvin, who I'm certain are one of the most hard-working, dedicated, competitive in the league. But it's not like MJ and Rice were physically unimposing, but overcame it with their determination. They were also top physical specimens, but in comparison to LeBron and Calvin, they look pretty average.

I'm sure LeBron and Calvin are very competitive, but they are also normal human beings who enjoy life and are somewhat healthy emotionally. MJ and Rice were just on another level, the kind of guys who would take a game of checkers or dancing with the stars way too seriously.

Good point, but when Rice played the guys weren't as big, strong

and fast as they are now. When Michael played the guys weren't as big strong and fast as they are now.

 

[Hoss Style]

Exactly. It's pretty amazing stuff. Calvin may be one of, if not the the greatest athlete in NFL history. Who has ever jumped over 3 guys on a regular basis to catch the ball? It's ridiculous.

I keep telling people but they don't wanna hear.... Im gonna say it here, He is the LEBRON JAMES of Football... No matter if you hate Lebron or love him you can relate to what im talking about..... This is in their physical Beastlyness, or freakish athletic ability. Both players are the most athletic EVER in their respective sports, and it's not even really close.

I think the comparisons of LeBron vs. MJ and Calvin vs. Rice are incredibly similar. They're athletic ability and ability to completely dominate a game are totally unparalleled. But both at this point in there careers have a long way to go to overtake the best ever (Lebron less so than Calvin). Also, I think MJ and Rice have intangibles that mitigate some of the gap in physical ability. Mostly, they're the most competitive a-holes ever to play their sport and that allowed them to elevate every part of their play - practice, season, playoffs, championships - to a level that couldn't really be matched. I guess their emotional beastliness rivals Lebron/Calvin's physical beastliness.

This is a pretty good point, as well. Swap minds and bodies and I wonder how they'd do. I think it's closer with Calvin and Rice, though. Calvin seems to work pretty hard at what he does (from all reports). But Rice workouts were legendary. Some WRs train with Rice even today and say his workouts are insane. And Rice isn't even pushing it like he used to.

I hear what your saying but They say Calvin doesn't take his chin strap off once in practice... He is a workout warrior and hardest worker on team. I would have a hard time saying Rice was better at offseason workouts, practice, weight room, running, jump rope, boxing etc. to add to what Calvin does on an off/in season.

Don't get me wrong - I'm pulling for Calvin. I want him to get on the big stage and show what he can do when nerves come into play in the Superbowl. I think he can do it. He seems to have the right mindset. But we'll never know until he does it. Hopefully his team can get him there someday so he can show us.

 

[CalBear]

He's the best to ever play the position. Jerry Rice may have more TDs at this juncture of their careers but it comes down to one simple question for me: if you're playing the Superbowl tomorrow, who would rather have as your WR?

I'll take the guy who had:

11/215/1

7/148/3

8/123/1

10/149/3

in four Super Bowl wins.

how man other hall of famers is Calvin playing with?

How many did Jerry Rice play with? including 2 all-time great HOF QBs?

Winning Superbowls is a team game

I suspect that when I tell you the answer to your question, it's not going to change your position, but here's the list of offensive players Rice played with who are in the Hall Of Fame:

Joe Montana

Steve Young

That's right, outside of his Niner QBs (who were amazing), no one else he played with on offense made the Hall, or is likely to. None of the linemen, none of the other receivers, none of the running backs.

Will Stafford be a Hall of Famer? He's got a decent start (two top-5 passing yardage and one top-5 passing TD finishes; probably another of both this year). If he stays healthy and gets a Super Bowl it'd be a decent bet.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I suspect that when I tell you the answer to your question, it's not going to change your position, but here's the list of offensive players Rice played with who are in the Hall Of Fame:

Joe Montana

Steve Young

That's right, outside of his Niner QBs (who were amazing), no one else he played with on offense made the Hall, or is likely to. None of the linemen, none of the other receivers, none of the running backs.

Will Stafford be a Hall of Famer? He's got a decent start (two top-5 passing yardage and one top-5 passing TD finishes; probably another of both this year). If he stays healthy and gets a Super Bowl it'd be a decent bet.

Rice played with TO and Tim Brown - I think they are both likely to make the Hall.

 

[FF Wiseguy]

Exactly. It's pretty amazing stuff. Calvin may be one of, if not the the greatest athlete in NFL history. Who has ever jumped over 3 guys on a regular basis to catch the ball? It's ridiculous.

I keep telling people but they don't wanna hear.... Im gonna say it here, He is the LEBRON JAMES of Football... No matter if you hate Lebron or love him you can relate to what im talking about..... This is in their physical Beastlyness, or freakish athletic ability. Both players are the most athletic EVER in their respective sports, and it's not even really close.

I think the comparisons of LeBron vs. MJ and Calvin vs. Rice are incredibly similar. They're athletic ability and ability to completely dominate a game are totally unparalleled. But both at this point in there careers have a long way to go to overtake the best ever (Lebron less so than Calvin). Also, I think MJ and Rice have intangibles that mitigate some of the gap in physical ability. Mostly, they're the most competitive a-holes ever to play their sport and that allowed them to elevate every part of their play - practice, season, playoffs, championships - to a level that couldn't really be matched. I guess their emotional beastliness rivals Lebron/Calvin's physical beastliness.

This is a pretty good point, as well. Swap minds and bodies and I wonder how they'd do. I think it's closer with Calvin and Rice, though. Calvin seems to work pretty hard at what he does (from all reports). But Rice worked even harder. Some WRs train with Rice even today and say his workouts are insane. And Rice isn't even pushing it like he used to.

Yeah, it's certainly not a knock on LeBron and Calvin, who I'm certain are one of the most hard-working, dedicated, competitive in the league. But it's not like MJ and Rice were physically unimposing, but overcame it with their determination. They were also top physical specimens, but in comparison to LeBron and Calvin, they look pretty average.

I'm sure LeBron and Calvin are very competitive, but they are also normal human beings who enjoy life and are somewhat healthy emotionally. MJ and Rice were just on another level, the kind of guys who would take a game of checkers or dancing with the stars way too seriously.

Good point, but when Rice played the guys weren't as big, strong

and fast as they are now. When Michael played the guys weren't as big strong and fast as they are now.

To me, most era-related arguments kind of cancel out.

Guys are faster, bigger, stronger now because of how nutrition, exercise, and medical technology have advanced. Having Rice and Jordan play now means they would have been faster, stronger as well.

Put Calvin in Rice's era, and can you guarantee a guy of his frame that plays the way he does would last 15 years under those rules? Would he have the medical staffs with the same ability to keep him healthy or help him rehab faster when he is hurt?

In the end, I think both guys would have found a way to be dominant under any circumstances.

 

[T with T]

I made the Lebron comparisons and it has nothing to do with basketball... Lebron was an all state football player and played wr... You imagine Lebron at 6-8 playing wr/te for a team with basically the same measurables as calvin, although he may be a tad slower. I think Lebron runs a 4.4 I read, but had he been training for football the Sky would have been the limit. Very comparable talents and athletes though imo.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

He's the best to ever play the position. Jerry Rice may have more TDs at this juncture of their careers but it comes down to one simple question for me: if you're playing the Superbowl tomorrow, who would rather have as your WR?

I'll take the guy who had:

11/215/1

7/148/3

8/123/1

10/149/3

in four Super Bowl wins.

how man other hall of famers is Calvin playing with?

How many did Jerry Rice play with? including 2 all-time great HOF QBs?

Winning Superbowls is a team game

I suspect that when I tell you the answer to your question, it's not going to change your position, but here's the list of offensive players Rice played with who are in the Hall Of Fame:

Joe Montana

Steve Young

That's right, outside of his Niner QBs (who were amazing), no one else he played with on offense made the Hall, or is likely to. None of the linemen, none of the other receivers, none of the running backs.

Will Stafford be a Hall of Famer? He's got a decent start (two top-5 passing yardage and one top-5 passing TD finishes; probably another of both this year). If he stays healthy and gets a Super Bowl it'd be a decent bet.

Bill Walsh is a HOF'er.

QB is the most important positiion for a WR to be effective.

Calvin had some awful QBs throwing him the rock before stafford.

I like Rice, alot he is the best of all time right now. Lets see how Calvins career plays out

 

[CalBear]

I suspect that when I tell you the answer to your question, it's not going to change your position, but here's the list of offensive players Rice played with who are in the Hall Of Fame:

Joe Montana

Steve Young

That's right, outside of his Niner QBs (who were amazing), no one else he played with on offense made the Hall, or is likely to. None of the linemen, none of the other receivers, none of the running backs.

Will Stafford be a Hall of Famer? He's got a decent start (two top-5 passing yardage and one top-5 passing TD finishes; probably another of both this year). If he stays healthy and gets a Super Bowl it'd be a decent bet.

Rice played with TO and Tim Brown - I think they are both likely to make the Hall.

I'm starting to doubt that Tim Brown will make it. In any case, Rice was 39 by the time they first played together, and Brown was 35.

TO is a fair point, although Rice's greatest successes were before TO showed up on the scene. Owens caught 35 balls as a rookie in 1996, then Rice missed most of 1997. The 1998-2000 era was not a significant contributor to Rice's legacy.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Moss was an amazing talent. But the "who would you rather have to win one game?" line falls flat when, in his only Super Bowl, Moss had a mediocre game and lost. In fact, in his last 10 postseason games Moss failed to top 70 yards.

Don't forget that Moss played in the Super Bowl with the 49ers last year, too, where he went 2-41-0. Weak sauce.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Now we're counting Super Bowl wins heavily for WRs too? It's spreading beyond just QBs?

Rice played huge in those Super Bowls, no doubt, but what about all those playoff losses where he was a ghost?

4/45/0

3/48/0

3/28/0

5/54/0

5/36/0

1/6/0

4/48/0

4/36/0

In Rice's non-super bowl playoff games his numbers are actually pretty pedestrian. 25 games with an average of...

4.6 catches

64.4 yards

0.56 TDs

I don't really have a dog in this fight and we're a long ways from even being able to put Calvin in the conversation, but it's something to think about. Guys have a few good games in the Super Bowl and suddenly all their other playoff failures are as if they never happened. Megatron has only had one shot in the playoffs but he was 12/211/2 in that game, fwiw.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I suspect that when I tell you the answer to your question, it's not going to change your position, but here's the list of offensive players Rice played with who are in the Hall Of Fame:

Joe Montana

Steve Young

That's right, outside of his Niner QBs (who were amazing), no one else he played with on offense made the Hall, or is likely to. None of the linemen, none of the other receivers, none of the running backs.

Will Stafford be a Hall of Famer? He's got a decent start (two top-5 passing yardage and one top-5 passing TD finishes; probably another of both this year). If he stays healthy and gets a Super Bowl it'd be a decent bet.

Rice played with TO and Tim Brown - I think they are both likely to make the Hall.

I'm starting to doubt that Tim Brown will make it. In any case, Rice was 39 by the time they first played together, and Brown was 35.

TO is a fair point, although Rice's greatest successes were before TO showed up on the scene. Owens caught 35 balls as a rookie in 1996, then Rice missed most of 1997. The 1998-2000 era was not a significant contributor to Rice's legacy.

I disagree. Rice's legacy after blowing out his knee really separates him as the GOAT. SB wins for WRs is a ridiculous standard (really only applicable to QBs). Up until age 35 Moss and Rice have similar numbers. The difference between the two is that Rice put together a career after the age of 35 that would make the vast majority of NFL WRs envious. Rice was dominant at an age when most WRs are out of the league. Moss, Calvin, TO, Harrison have demonstrated peaks that are comparable to Rice. The difference is that Rice maintained that standard across essentially 2 decades. Now, I am not arguing that Calvin is anywhere close to Rice as far as a career goes, but at pretty much every position on offense I would take the guy Rice played with over the guy that Calvin is playing with and CJ isn't playing with anyone close to being a HOFer.

 

[T with T]

them super bowl numbers are off for rice as he posted 5-70 with oakland in the superbowl.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Speaking after Thursday's missed practice, Calvin Johnson (undisclosed) said he's dealing with some "maintenance issues," but that he'll be ready for Sunday's game against the Steelers.

It sounds like the machine just needs a tune up. Megatron's status can no longer be taken for granted after his shock Week 5 inactive, but this has all the hallmarks of the Lions simply managing their star wideout's practice reps. Johnson will likely return to practice on Friday, getting in a limited session. Owners should monitor his status, but keep him locked in as their No. 1 receiver.


Source: Tim Twentyman on Twitter

Calvin Johnson (undisclosed) is not practicing Thursday.

Johnson's knee isn't known to be giving problems of late, but he typically gets a limited workout in on Thursdays. Perhaps he's just taking an extra rest day after seeing another 17 targets against the Bears last week. We're not overly concerned yet, but keep an eye out for additional info later Thursday and Friday. ESPN refers to Megatron's Thursday absence as a "somewhat unusual circumstance."


Source: Tim Twentyman on Twitter

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Practices today.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/15/calvin-johnson-back-practicing-friday/

 

[Donny Loved Bowling]

Whew! Just acquired him for Cruz/Brown.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Calvin Johnson (knee) is active for Sunday's game against the Steelers, as expected.
Johnson sat out practice on Wednesday and Thursday for maintenance reasons. He's ready to rock against Ike Taylor and the Steelers. Johnson is the no-brainer No. 1 fantasy wideout again this week.

 

[Faust]

Calvin Johnson’s 746 yards over the past four weeks would rank 19th on the season.

Patrick Daugherty from Rotoworld

 

[Grahamburn]

Benching him this week against Revis.

 

[Apple Jack]

Benching him this week against Revis.

 

[jagbag]

Benching him this week against Revis.

Look at your signature.

 

[boilerdave]

The team I have him on is currently 10-1. I went back and reviewed the weekly box scores....without Calvin I'm probably 6-5 at best, possibly as bad as 4-7.

 

[Ghost Rider]

In our local auction league that awards bonus points for longer touchdowns, Calvin has 198.85 the last four weeks, which, if he had played just those four weeks, would make him the 9th highest scoring WR for the year. That is just absurd. And yes, he is on my team. Best 51 dollars I spent at any auction this year.

 

[ShamrockPride]

If the Lions keep the Stafford/MegaTron combo going, and obviously both can stay healthy, they may not have the SB's, but Calvin will be 1st or 2nd in just about every all-time receiving category right there with Jerry.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

If the Lions keep the Stafford/MegaTron combo going, and obviously both can stay healthy, they may not have the SB's, but Calvin will be 1st or 2nd in just about every all-time receiving category right there with Jerry.

I think 2nd is the best he can hope for in most of those categories. He's actually already behind Rice's pace in most categories and the reason Rice is so far ahead at the end is because he played well for so unbelievably long, which is unlikely for Calvin because a) it's unlikely for anyone and b) he relies on physical ability (which will be more and more limited as he ages) much more than Rice did.

Even if Rice had retired at a normal age it would be tough for Calvin to break many of those records. With Rice still playing strong into his 40's it's almost impossible.

If Calvin averages 100/1400/13 per season he'd still have to play TEN more years to catch rice.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Touchdowns is where Calvin will have an extremely difficult time catching, or even coming close to, Rice. He already has two seasons of only 5 touchdowns, and only had 4 his rookie year. After seven seasons, Rice already had 93 touchdown catches (and four more rushing ones); Calvin has 65 + the last six games of this season.

 

[Grahamburn]

Benching him this week against Revis.

Look at your signature.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Darrelle Revis is expected to shadow Calvin Johnson all over the field "almost exclusively" Sunday.
This is going to be a fun one. The Bucs have been allowing Revis to play more man coverage the past few weeks. We'll get a chance to see the game's best cover corner versus its best receiver. The last time these two matched up, Revis held Megatron to one catch for 13 yards in 2010. Johnson is still locked in as a top-flight WR1 this week, but expectations should be tempered.

Related: Darrelle Revis

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Calvin Johnson (knee, back) is not practicing Tuesday.

Johnson has been dealing with a knee injury the last few weeks and sat out the fourth quarter of Thursday's blowout win over the Packers with a back issue. He'll likely return to a limited practice on Wednesday and is in no danger of missing Week 14 against the Eagles. Johnson has a plus matchup at Philadelphia Sunday.


Source: Tim Twentyman on Twitter

 

[Gottabesweet]

Fearing his worst for tomorrow. Outdoor game in terrible weather, banged up his knee on Thanksgiving more. 4-41-0 Lions get rolled.

 

[tdhartis]

Fearing his worst for tomorrow. Outdoor game in terrible weather, banged up his knee on Thanksgiving more. 4-41-0 Lions get rolled.

Against the fearsome PHI secondary? After Calvin practiced the last two days and is listed as probable like nearly every week this season?

 

[flapgreen]

Bench him

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Seriously. When will people learn?

 

[T with T]

Fearing his worst for tomorrow. Outdoor game in terrible weather, banged up his knee on Thanksgiving more. 4-41-0 Lions get rolled.

that's a dummy talking there... I say 8-140-2 tds

 

[flapgreen]

 

[tdhartis]

Fearing his worst for tomorrow. Outdoor game in terrible weather, banged up his knee on Thanksgiving more. 4-41-0 Lions get rolled.

Against the fearsome PHI secondary? After Calvin practiced the last two days and is listed as probable like nearly every week this season?

I didn't see weather this bad, but it's looking like it won't be detrimental. He's matched the 41 yard mark at least. :knockonwood;

 

[tdhartis]

I'm here to eat my crow.

 

[RBM]

Fearing his worst for tomorrow. Outdoor game in terrible weather, banged up his knee on Thanksgiving more. 4-41-0 Lions get rolled.

that's a dummy talking there... I say 8-140-2 tds

 

[flapgreen]

Do your thing tonight brah

 

[The Dude]

Put it on Clavin

 

[Steeler]

Do your thing tonight brah

 

[mbuehner]

Do your thing tonight brah

This.

 

[flapgreen]

Not quite what I had in mind

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Loving it. Needed Calvin and Stafford to combine for less than 66. I hate rooting against Calvin. But this week I am.

 

[John 14:6]

Do your thing tonight brah

Anytime now, old man...

 

[bonesman]

I got all I needed.... just don't fumble

 

[flapgreen]

I just need Calvin to not get outscored by 16 by Rice.

 

[flapgreen]

I've destroyed Calvin's confidence.