Neofight
Footballguy
Cam's backing away as DeMarcus Ware stretches out and has a hand on it. https://twitter.com/ugafootballlive/status/696752061694681089
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Cam Newton...what A team leader (1 Viewer)
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Wingnut
Footballguy
He saw 67 in motion, and he almost got it. We cant see Cams peripheral but Im pretty sure he saw that guy.
Neofight
Footballguy
I'm not saying he necessarily has HPD, merely that it's a possibility. He certainly ticks a lot of the boxes. He has always been a diva and a front runner, and I find it interesting that those are traits you don't commonly see in the best QB's. Those traits are typically found in stud WR's, DB's and the like.He has most everyone in the country and on his team snowed if he's anything close to Owens....they hyperbole is strong in this one. I'm not going to ever be able to change your mind. All I can do is point out the progress he's made and use it as evidence towards him progressing. If you want to ignore it or discount it or minimize it, I think we're done here. Have a good one.I'm not the one using the little smiley guys. It strikes me as juvenile at times.Primarily my interest lies in seeing Cam get beyond the histrionics; whether or not he can is up to him. My opinion is that it may be very difficult for him to do, given that he's 26 years old and 5 years into his professional career. There's certainly hope insofar as the human brain is now understood to not be fully developed until around 25 years old, perhaps not until the early 30's. Maybe Cam will be a late bloomer.That you aren't interested in changing your opinionWhat vibe do you get?The shrug gives a vibe of being defensive. But I could be wrong.No....my opinion is he's a work in progress but that he's made progress. No offense, but the pieces of evidence I have provided you to illustrate that progress was met with the comment "your examples are nice but...."I don't really get the vibe you are interested in changing your opinion
Or maybe he has a histrionic disorder that means all these surface emotions and attention seeking behavior is who he is (see Terrell Owens). Maybe something completely different leads to his diva-like qualities and his front runner status. It's rare to see those particular traits in a top tier NFL QB.
He still has a ways to go to shed that image, if he ever does. I'm pulling for him. It's difficult to watch guys struggle like that.
Neofight
Footballguy
Wasn't even in his field of vision. But even if he was, Cam was right on top of the ball. He just bailed.
The General
Footballguy
If only there were a time and a place where Cam could tell us what he was thinking?
Not in his field of vision? Does he have tunnel vision or peripheral vision like every other NFL player? One would think that if he couldn't see people from his left side in the periphery that he likely wouldn't be playing in the NFL.
No one but him know what he was thinking, but watch it again. He is initially going for it, so why back away? Personally, I think he sees Ware and Kalil and figure he can't just pick it up so he stops and goes where he thinks it may squirt out. Amazingly enough, watch where the ball goes when Kalil comes in, it goes towards where Newton ends up and hits him in the leg. Amazingly enough, he is an NFL QB who has likely seen a few more fumbles and scrambles than you have. I'll bet, he's seen that happen. Maybe he knew Ware didn't quite have it, but he has no chance to get it with Kalil diving so he is playing what he thinks will happen and what does happen. Did Ware get it when he reaches? Did Kalil when he dives over? The answer is No and No, so if Newton goes straight down, would he have gotten it? No.
Sorry, but to just say he decided he didn't want to risk it is just nonsense. Maybe he did bail on it, but the fact that he initially goes towards it and then is closer to the ball where he ends up and it does squirt out when neither Ware nor Kalil gets it IMHO says that I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he actually thought about where the ball would end up and didn't bail.
ETA: Please re-watch it and see where the ball ends up and where Newton's leg and hand is, i.e. touching the ball. Feel free to say that in bailing, he ended up right where the ball went. Wouldn't bailing mean he would get out of the scrum, not position himself on his knees with his hand trying to touch the ball? Seems like that is the opposite of bailing. Please post your thoughts after watching it with my "assumptions" of how he acted.
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This is a very true statement. He could have easily squashed it.
Agreed. This angle seems to show it way more than he didn't "bail" but put himself in better position to recover it, because amazingly enough he ends up right next to the ball and amazingly enough Kalil and Ware don't recover it on that dive/reach.
Oh well, I'm done trying to seem like his defender in here. People will see what they want and the posts in here make it seem like he ran away from the ball crying. He should have handled the presser better, but I'm still glad we have him and I'm looking forward to the off-season and next year.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I do know this though. Cam just did not look like the same player he had been all year. Not just because he didnt play that well, but his demeanor and body language were just "different" right from the first play.
Kinda reminded me of Lebron his last year in Cleveland against Boston in the conference finals where it looked like he "wasn't trying". He looked like a completely different player during that entire series doing and not doing things he always would normally do.
Maybe the combination of such a huge build up to the game (2 weeks is dumb), winning MVP, and all the talk about his behavior...................it just might have gotten to him and unfortunately he laid an egg because of it. He seriously looked like he had no confidence at any point in the game from the first play to the last.
Now, of course the Denver was was fantastic and they get a ton of credit, but this was a two-fold problem for Cam yesterday. It was very strange.
Kinda reminded me of Lebron his last year in Cleveland against Boston in the conference finals where it looked like he "wasn't trying". He looked like a completely different player during that entire series doing and not doing things he always would normally do.
Maybe the combination of such a huge build up to the game (2 weeks is dumb), winning MVP, and all the talk about his behavior...................it just might have gotten to him and unfortunately he laid an egg because of it. He seriously looked like he had no confidence at any point in the game from the first play to the last.
Now, of course the Denver was was fantastic and they get a ton of credit, but this was a two-fold problem for Cam yesterday. It was very strange.
Neofight
Footballguy
So Cam knew where the ball might go and calculated that he could fall on it by backing up when he saw the opponents hand on it? All in a split second.
Really, that is your response? How long have you played QB at a college level and in the NFL? Yes, I think he did think that in a split second. That is what he is paid to do on every play, to make decisions in split seconds. I stopped playing football after high school, but we did fumble drills all the time. If you are standing above the ball that a defender has his arm on and a teammate is diving towards the ball, I am thinking the defender has it or that my teammate will knock it away and based on the laws of physics, it is most likely going to go straight away from where Kalil is coming. Please note that this is exactly where the ball goes and note that as Newton goes down to his right, he starts to rotate his body so he is squared up to Kalil. Again, you are trying to say he ended up there by accident, right where the ball is going? That seems more of a stretch than a split second decision to anticipate the bounce. Also, if he is bailing, why does he then jump to the ground and why is he the guy touching the ball at the end of the video? Isn't bailing by definition taking himself out of harms way? Is he out of harms way at the end or right where everyone will go since the ball is touching his hand and knee/thigh?
Anyway, I thought he stepped back until I watched this, which I am glad someone posted in a bashing thread. After watching it, I think he made a split second decision and end up where the ball went. Sort of like Murphy's law, the simplest answer is usually the right one and a guy who has been practicing and playing football fare more than all of us ever did at the highest level is someone who makes split second decisions based on his experiences. Fumble recoveries are practiced and QBs tend to see a lot of strip sacks because they are actually right there.
Again, I know that I'll likely not change any opinions, because even when I point it out, I get a reply that an NFL MVP QB can't make split second decisions and he accidentally backed up and jumped down to the right where the ball ended up. People will see what they want.
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Neofight
Footballguy
Your theory is growing on me. It's just hard to Believe Cam didn't come away with the ball, given he knew where it was going and he set himself up so perfectly. Even Superman has tough luck, eh?
Watching the Denver DL do the exact same thing (bend down and come back) makes it seem even more likely. Yes, I have no idea why he didn't get it. He should have, but I certainly don't think he bailed.
Neofight
Footballguy
You may be onto something here...Until you pan out and see that Turner pushes Wolfe out of the way: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000634557/article/cam-newtons-antics-in-super-bowl-50-loss-fuel-criticism
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
the truth hurts
Jayrok
Footballguy
Cam was obviously nervous and he was pressing. He pressed harder as the game went on, especially after the sack/TD. Maybe there was also pressure of trying to live up to being MVP. He had a bad game, and I would say that is mostly due to Denver's defense being so good. I think he grows from it and he'll become a better player. He wasn't named MVP for nothing. He had a sensational year. I don't think one game is going to define his career. You mentioned Lebron James. He settled down and won two titles and is in the hunt for more. I'm hoping the same happens to Newton.ghostguy123 said:
JohnnyU
Footballguy
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
If they would have won the game he would have told us what he was thinking.The General said:
Nope, you changed mine. Looking at the fact that the ball squirts out right into his lap (after he adjusts/moves/backs away) to me is just too much of a coincidence. I'm saying that's not thought/decision making at all, that's football instincts. And damn good ones. Think of how this whole scenario plays out if he'd actually been able to cover that ball up (after that crazy quick adjustment).stbugs said:
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
But, but, but... He knew which way the ball was going to bounce.
Wow. He is so unlikeable.
cstu
Footballguy
Elway lost three times with class before he finally won twice. What a loser.Quotes coming soon from exit interview today but...
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
Your question wasn't directed at me, but I'll respond.Is it more important to be fake in front of the media or genuine on the field man to man with the opponent? I'm not saying he should/shouldn't be both...just asking which is more important to you?Of course his teammates care. Down the stretch in the fourth quarter a leader has the ability to lift his team by not only his actions on the field, but also what he says and how he interacts with his teammates. Newton still isn't close to the player that I wish he was. That post game presser was painful to watch. Would like to have got to watch him more down the stretch of that game. What was he doing/saying on the sidelines before he came into the game down 6 in the fourth quarter? How was his body language? Was he trying to pump up his team? Was there positive talk? These are the moments that make one a leader. Not necessarily that he comes out and wins the game, but that he leads in the moments of adversity.Who gives a #### what the press wants or thinks? I am surprised that people are making such a big deal out of his post-game presser. The same people that wereabout Cam all season are the same ones
I'm never going to be a fan of a guy because he's bigger, faster, or stronger than another man. I'm never going to be a fan of a guy because he celebrates well when things are going smoothly. For an NFL player to earn my respect they're going to have to show me they continue to fight when things are going poorly and understand that they need to take ownership of their teammates mental state in the moment. Leaders lift up their teammates in those adverse moments. Cam isn't that guy yet.
Great posting, actually. He reverted right back to "Old Post-Game Presser Cam" immediately after experiencing a negative on field outcome. It's not fresh in people's minds because the Panthers were 17-1 entering this game in 2015. Cam still hasn't grown up to the point where he takes all post game presser loss questions no matter how difficult and is gracious towards the team that had just beaten him on a big stage. I'm not sure he will ever get there, but time will tell. It's not all Oikos and Beats commercials and dabbing after beating inferior defenses, and Cam is clearly not there off the field just yet. He's young so he has time, but he can't behave like that and get the respect someone with his talent should warrant.
I don't think those are two separate scenarios where one should rank higher than the other. Why not ask whether it's more important to not cheat on your wife during the first 5 years of marriage or the second five?
The issue about the presser is that Cam would seem to be fine being fake in the front of the media after a win, but not after a loss. If there's no nobility in standing there and giving cliche' answers, then there's no nobility in standing there and giving cliche' answers after a win either. There should be consistency. Belichick at least is consistent. Same with Marshawn Lynch. You know you aren't getting anything from him win or lose. We tend to appreciate dependability and predictability. We don't like it when someone lets their emotions run wild and determine how well they are going to play with others.
What you get with Cam is that he'll engage in the presser if he feels like it, but he won't if he doesn't. That pretty much makes it 100% about what he wants to do...which is the very definition of selfishness...which is what his critics say about him.
Part of it is his position. You do want some fire from your QB so he can inspire and lift the team. But you don't want a wet blanket that will drag the team down. So we tend to appreciate some stoicism from a QB. We tend to want them to be more leveled as a moderating influence rather than to be this pendulum swinging back and forth between highs and lows. We want the QB to be the guy who rides herd on the rest of the team to help minimize the stupid crap they might do in the heat of the moment. That's where that intangible "leadership" quality comes into play. It doesn't just manifest because a guy can throw a laser during a hurricane. It doesn't just manifest because he gets a few wins. I think a big part of it is the ability remain cool and about himself when the chips are down and when things are going great. The QB is expected to be the dad of the team, not one of the kids.
There was point in my life when I realized how much my dad made everything about the family and almost nothing about himself. I loved him up till then, but I also added a tremendous amount of respect for him. The respect I had for him up until that point was because he was my dad. But it was at that point that I started to understand who he was and the respect I had for him changed.
I had an acquaintance predicting that Carolina would choke since the start of the playoffs. He said Carolina had been letting too many teams back in games all season long and that was a sign of an immature team without good leadership. His argument was that that was an example of someone not keeping his teammates accountable when things were going well (getting a big lead). And if the team couldn't keep a lead, then it could get tight and panicked when things are going bad and be unable to climb out of a hole.
Honestly, I thought he was over-generalizing. I've heard that cliche' before. But the more I think about it, I think he may be spot on.
The good news is that Cam is still young. And his proponents are correct in that he doesn't seem to a monster off the field like some other guys. But it could be the difference between Cam being a pretty good QB and a very good one. I think in some ways this next season will be a turning point, one way or the other, for Cam. There are people who get a certain amount of respect by default because people respect the chain of authority. But there are some chinks in Cam's armor right now. It will be interesting to see which way he goes.
I was wrong, but after he adjusted back, he did go for the ball and was right freaking there.
Neofight
Footballguy
Cam's constant taunting and dabbing and Superman and gold shoes, etc, make him the kind of person that gives people pleasure when they fail. It's just the way it is. I didn't see anyone giving Blair Walsh a hard time. Some people are just very easy to root against.
cstu
Footballguy
Still rooted for him despite all that. I don't mind a guy being cocky and having fun, but act like a man when things don't go your way. There is no excuse for what he did at the post-game press conference.
Chaka
Footballguy
I can understand it when you are talking about a bad guy but Cam just celebrates and pouts while also being incredibly generous with is time and money off the field. He's a good dude but people are revelling in his failure like he's Bernie Madoff.
I think the behavior of taking pleasure in the failure of guys like Cam speaks just as poorly to the character of those judging Cam. Worse really.
Neofight
Footballguy
I enjoy the celebrations. Even in excess, I'm in agreement with Cam that if the other team doesn't like it they should stop him. If I'm competing against Newton, that's some motivation and a challenge I'd gladly accept. As a fan, he doesn't take the celebrations too far; a la TO running to the middle of Texas Stadium and standing on the star. He may have acted like a punk taking team flags from opposing fans in the Carolina stands, but I didn't follow that very closely. In short, Cam's dabbing and Super Man chest exposure may be tired and childish, but it's authentic and honest.
The problem I have is that the other side of his front runner personality is the bad body language, histrionics and lack of effort on the field. In the Super Bowl, he looked like a defeated man long before he stepped foot in that press conference. He was beaten, not beat up.
So, while he should have the composure and tact to sit there and answer all the media's questions, regardless of how trivial and redundant they may be, his inability to do that is a less important symptom of a larger problem. This dude just doesn't compete well when faced with adversity.
He's also an arrogant doosh at times. "If they don't like my dancing, keep me out of the endzone". "Too bad they don't have bandaids for feelings". Well guess what Cam, Denver did keep you out of the end zone. And you sulked like a school girl. Just a very easy guy to dislike. And I don't care that he gives balls to kids. Or does other things his PR guys tell him to do. You can see his true character when it's not scripted.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
It's human nature. I can't imagine there isn't one person in the world you wouldn't enjoy seeing fail at something after gloating all the time. What about watching a movie, you always want the villain to fail.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Cam has trouble with the English language.
Chaka
Footballguy
I know that is where you come, you make it abundantly clear.
I think your reveling in his failures is every bit as revealing about your character. It isn't a good look for you buddy.
Chaka
Footballguy
I always want Tom Brady to lose but he doesn't seem to care about what I want. What an #######!
Chaka
Footballguy
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
JohnnyU
Footballguy
LOL One thing is clear to me. He dances, dabs, supermans it, tells opponents if they don't like it then stop it, then pouts when they do stop it. He can dish it out but can't take it, which is what everyone is on to him over. He needs to grow up some and be a professional when he loses if he's going to rub it in when he is doing well.
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Spot on. I don't instinctively root against Cam. Heck, I was torn on who to root for on Sunday. Didn't really care who won.But man, he sure does act lively when he wins, and he acts like a little kid when he loses. Not a great role model.
thanks Doc. Appreciate the expert analysis. Lolol
Chaka
Footballguy
I haven't followed your comments in this thread so I don't know if you are one of the revelers, which is much different than expressing concern about Cam Newton's status as a role model.
But if that is really your concern perhaps you should focus on being the best role model you can be and don't worry so much about what kind of role model you think other people should be.
exactly. I don't hate the guy. Never wished him failure. He was barely a bleep on my radar before this year. Just another average NFL quarterback. This year, everything starting going well for him and his team and it went to his head. Became more and more of a showboating tool as the season went on. It was all about Cam. The dabbing, the superman, the gold shoes... I didn't go into the Super Bowl rooting for Denver because I ff out like Cam. I wanted Peyton to win in his last game. Now that I saw how Cam acted during and after the game, and continued acting today, I have a new guy to root against. He's just not likeable.
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