Can somebody explain in their own words (1 Viewer)

[bostonfred]

Where are all those people who castigated the Eagles for signing him to what they perceived as a two year deal?  Do they have the same complaints about Dallas signing him to what amounts to a one year deal?

If not, why not?

Still waiting.

That was a good article quoted above. From the Cowboys' perspective, the team has a relatively low risk contract. But from Owens' perspective, he does too. He gets $10 million for one year, $18 million for two years, or $25 million for three years. There are no penalties in the contract for behavioral issues, which is a huge negotiating point that was left out of the article above. And if he succeeds over those three years, he will be 35 and may have another good contract left in him.

The Eagles contract was worth $49 million over 7 years, with a $10 million signing bonus. So the Cowboys contract has about the same amount of guaranteed money in the first year.

The second year, Owens was slated to receive $3.5 million. So Owens was slated to receive less in the first two years.

And the third year, Owens was slated to receive a roster bonus that the Eagles would have attempted to renegotiate into a signing bonus if they wanted him. This is the same team that refused to renegotiate with him when he wanted to.

Basically, both teams protected themselves against possible issues with their star receiver, but the Eagles took a more adversarial stance and paid him less in the first two years. That's the major difference.

 

[bostonfred]

Character issues and being cancerous are two different things.  I don't recall L.T. ever taking any of his complaints about Belichick directly to the media.  In addition, I think all his teammates (on the defensive side of ball) loved playing with him.  I don't think you can say the same about T.O. and his offensive teammates.

Other than McNabb, who has complained?You think TO was a "team cancer", but you're no more privy to that lockerroom than anyone else. I'm sure plenty of LT's teammates resented the fact that he could buck the coach's authority and they couldn't. But sports is a meritocracy.

TO's a jerk. I get it. But I got over athletes being jerks when I was a teenager.

I scoob.

 

[bostonfred]

I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is. 

Don't take our word for it. Take the word of the entire NFL. How many teams have significant cap room right now?And how many rushed out to offer him a deal? Kansas City said no thanks, period. They didn't even wanna talk to him. Denver? Talking a one year deal, incentive-laden. Chicago? They could use a receiver. No call. Pats? Same thing.

Are you serious or are you feigning naivete?Ask yourself which is more likely: that all of the teams that were reported as having contacted Owens, didn't really contact him

Or that many teams contacted him, the Cowboys made the best offer, and the other teams backpedaled, saying they never tried to get him?

 

[BassNBrew]

BFred...have you ever watched the Pats play?  How are they successful?

In a different way than the Ravens and Cowboys were when they won Superbowls. Why?

No TO in New England or Pitt for that matter.

 

[bostonfred]

There's one thing I can't stand in the game of football and that's a player critisizing his teammates and saying the the team be better off with another player.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - teammates should stick by each other and help each get better.   Look at all the crap Manning got for even mentioning breakdowns in protections and he didn't even call out a specific player.  

I can understand why you feel that way, and I don't disagree with it. In an ideal world, players - especially great players - wouldn't call each other out, especially in public. And there are some people who really just don't get it. Owens is one of them. I don't think that's enough to say that he's going to sink whatever team he goes to. His record certainly reflects that, and apparently Parcells and Jones agree. And I don't think it's such a huge sin that he's going to be a locker room cancer. Especially in a locker room that just got rid of Keyshawn and, before that, Irvin. And gets yelled at on a constant basis in a state that lives and breathes football. I think professional football players have a thicker skin than that, and that's why - while I agree that I don't like his comments - I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is.

With regards to Manning, what made his comments so bad, and IMO (not fishing here) possibly worse than Owens', is that Owens had a great game in the Superbowl, and called out his teammate. Manning had a bad game in the playoffs, far from the first time it's happened, and he blamed it on his teammates. That's a huge difference - there's a certain moral highground that comes from playing your best that Manning doesn't get to claim here, but Owens - despite all the other things you may not like about him - does.

Owens had a 'nice' game. A GREAT game would have been 130something and a COUPLE OF TDS.....one possibly a game winner. Thats greatness. How many TDs did he actually score in that game? Not a single friggin' one in the most OVERRATED "great" game Ive never seen. Not a great game.....nice game, yes....'great' game?...uh, uh. Great games usually result in wins. Very admirable that he played well in the Superbowl, and we all know he was the first to tell us all as soon as the game was over how much the doubters were all wrong, but his team lost and the guy was celebrating his "GREAT" game like he'd just hit the lottery. Team just lost the biggest game of their lives and he's jumpin' hoops! Guy just doesnt get it.....what else do you need to know?

A GREAT game was playing injured, catching 9 balls for 122 yards, drawing a safety away from Lewis for his TD, and getting them in position to win the game. Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired.

 

[BlueOnion]

There's one thing I can't stand in the game of football and that's a player critisizing his teammates and saying the the team be better off with another player. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - teammates should stick by each other and help each get better. Look at all the crap Manning got for even mentioning breakdowns in protections and he didn't even call out a specific player.

I can understand why you feel that way, and I don't disagree with it. In an ideal world, players - especially great players - wouldn't call each other out, especially in public. And there are some people who really just don't get it. Owens is one of them. I don't think that's enough to say that he's going to sink whatever team he goes to. His record certainly reflects that, and apparently Parcells and Jones agree. And I don't think it's such a huge sin that he's going to be a locker room cancer. Especially in a locker room that just got rid of Keyshawn and, before that, Irvin. And gets yelled at on a constant basis in a state that lives and breathes football. I think professional football players have a thicker skin than that, and that's why - while I agree that I don't like his comments - I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is.

With regards to Manning, what made his comments so bad, and IMO (not fishing here) possibly worse than Owens', is that Owens had a great game in the Superbowl, and called out his teammate. Manning had a bad game in the playoffs, far from the first time it's happened, and he blamed it on his teammates. That's a huge difference - there's a certain moral highground that comes from playing your best that Manning doesn't get to claim here, but Owens - despite all the other things you may not like about him - does.

Owens had a 'nice' game. A GREAT game would have been 130something and a COUPLE OF TDS.....one possibly a game winner. Thats greatness. How many TDs did he actually score in that game? Not a single friggin' one in the most OVERRATED "great" game Ive never seen. Not a great game.....nice game, yes....'great' game?...uh, uh. Great games usually result in wins. Very admirable that he played well in the Superbowl, and we all know he was the first to tell us all as soon as the game was over how much the doubters were all wrong, but his team lost and the guy was celebrating his "GREAT" game like he'd just hit the lottery. Team just lost the biggest game of their lives and he's jumpin' hoops! Guy just doesnt get it.....what else do you need to know?

A GREAT game was playing injured, catching 9 balls for 122 yards, drawing a safety away from Lewis for his TD, and getting them in position to win the game. Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired.

Is it worth noting that the only playoff game the Eagles lost was the one that T.O. played in?

 

[bostonfred]

BFred...have you ever watched the Pats play?  How are they successful?

In a different way than the Ravens and Cowboys were when they won Superbowls. Why?

No TO in New England or Pitt for that matter.

Deion, Sharpe, LT, Ray Lewis, Irvin, and Romo all won rings despite varying aspects of the problems people have with Owens.

 

[bostonfred]

There's one thing I can't stand in the game of football and that's a player critisizing his teammates and saying the the team be better off with another player.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - teammates should stick by each other and help each get better.  Look at all the crap Manning got for even mentioning breakdowns in protections and he didn't even call out a specific player. 

I can understand why you feel that way, and I don't disagree with it. In an ideal world, players - especially great players - wouldn't call each other out, especially in public. And there are some people who really just don't get it. Owens is one of them. I don't think that's enough to say that he's going to sink whatever team he goes to. His record certainly reflects that, and apparently Parcells and Jones agree. And I don't think it's such a huge sin that he's going to be a locker room cancer. Especially in a locker room that just got rid of Keyshawn and, before that, Irvin. And gets yelled at on a constant basis in a state that lives and breathes football. I think professional football players have a thicker skin than that, and that's why - while I agree that I don't like his comments - I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is.

With regards to Manning, what made his comments so bad, and IMO (not fishing here) possibly worse than Owens', is that Owens had a great game in the Superbowl, and called out his teammate. Manning had a bad game in the playoffs, far from the first time it's happened, and he blamed it on his teammates. That's a huge difference - there's a certain moral highground that comes from playing your best that Manning doesn't get to claim here, but Owens - despite all the other things you may not like about him - does.

Owens had a 'nice' game. A GREAT game would have been 130something and a COUPLE OF TDS.....one possibly a game winner. Thats greatness. How many TDs did he actually score in that game? Not a single friggin' one in the most OVERRATED "great" game Ive never seen. Not a great game.....nice game, yes....'great' game?...uh, uh. Great games usually result in wins. Very admirable that he played well in the Superbowl, and we all know he was the first to tell us all as soon as the game was over how much the doubters were all wrong, but his team lost and the guy was celebrating his "GREAT" game like he'd just hit the lottery. Team just lost the biggest game of their lives and he's jumpin' hoops! Guy just doesnt get it.....what else do you need to know?

A GREAT game was playing injured, catching 9 balls for 122 yards, drawing a safety away from Lewis for his TD, and getting them in position to win the game. Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired.

Is it worth noting that the only playoff game the Eagles lost was the one that T.O. played in?

I would probably think so if I hadn't watched the game.

 

[massraider]

I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is. 

Don't take our word for it. Take the word of the entire NFL. How many teams have significant cap room right now?And how many rushed out to offer him a deal? Kansas City said no thanks, period. They didn't even wanna talk to him. Denver? Talking a one year deal, incentive-laden. Chicago? They could use a receiver. No call. Pats? Same thing.

Are you serious or are you feigning naivete?Ask yourself which is more likely: that all of the teams that were reported as having contacted Owens, didn't really contact him

Or that many teams contacted him, the Cowboys made the best offer, and the other teams backpedaled, saying they never tried to get him?

It's easy to take a position and claim behind the scenes machinations, but I'm willing to concede that other teams talked to him.And the Cowboys best offer, which I think we can assume was the best he got, included a $5 million SB. Same as Antonio Bryant.

How clear is that? Antonio Bryant, a knucklehead in his own right.

But TO's red flags are so big, and waving so high, that he got the same SB.

One would think that the best WR in the game, arguably, would get a bigger SB than Bryant.

The Cowboys wrote up a contract that protects them in the event that he behaves like a turd. Even the team that signed him wonders if he can behave more than one year at a time.

 

[bostonfred]

I haven't read any of the 123 posts ahead of me and don't have time to plow through all that, but let me go on record, just as I did when he went to Philly:

There is zero chance Owens doesn't screw this up. He'll shoot off his mouth at Bledsoe or Parcells or another coach, or just in general in front of a camera, and it'll be the beginning of the end. He will do this because he is incapable of not doing so.

If you really believe this, then by definition you MUST agree with one or more of these three statements:1) that the Eagles were at fault for failing to prepare for or properly deal with the mathematical certainty that Owens would shoot his mouth off,

2) that the Eagles were at fault for bringing Owens in in the first place, or

3) that the time they got from Owens was worth the eventual blowup.

Now, the question is whether another organization - and more specifically, the Cowboys - can properly manage him. I think everyone agrees he's a special talent, and everyone agrees he has social issues and doesn't respond well to adversarial management tactics. I think most of us also agree that Parcells knows how to coach those kinds of players, which is why I tend to disagree with your conclusions.

 

[BlueOnion]

I haven't read any of the 123 posts ahead of me and don't have time to plow through all that, but let me go on record, just as I did when he went to Philly:

There is zero chance Owens doesn't screw this up. He'll shoot off his mouth at Bledsoe or Parcells or another coach, or just in general in front of a camera, and it'll be the beginning of the end. He will do this because he is incapable of not doing so.

If you really believe this, then by definition you MUST agree with one or more of these three statements:1) that the Eagles were at fault for failing to prepare for or properly deal with the mathematical certainty that Owens would shoot his mouth off,

2) that the Eagles were at fault for bringing Owens in in the first place, or

3) that the time they got from Owens was worth the eventual blowup.

Now, the question is whether another organization - and more specifically, the Cowboys - can properly manage him. I think everyone agrees he's a special talent, and everyone agrees he has social issues and doesn't respond well to adversarial management tactics. I think most of us also agree that Parcells knows how to coach those kinds of players, which is why I tend to disagree with your conclusions.

But BF, what makes you think T.O. will be happy in Dallas?

 

[bostonfred]

I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is. 

Don't take our word for it. Take the word of the entire NFL. How many teams have significant cap room right now?And how many rushed out to offer him a deal? Kansas City said no thanks, period. They didn't even wanna talk to him. Denver? Talking a one year deal, incentive-laden. Chicago? They could use a receiver. No call. Pats? Same thing.

Are you serious or are you feigning naivete?Ask yourself which is more likely: that all of the teams that were reported as having contacted Owens, didn't really contact him

Or that many teams contacted him, the Cowboys made the best offer, and the other teams backpedaled, saying they never tried to get him?

It's easy to take a position and claim behind the scenes machinations, but I'm willing to concede that other teams talked to him.And the Cowboys best offer, which I think we can assume was the best he got, included a $5 million SB. Same as Antonio Bryant.

How clear is that? Antonio Bryant, a knucklehead in his own right.

But TO's red flags are so big, and waving so high, that he got the same SB.

One would think that the best WR in the game, arguably, would get a bigger SB than Bryant.

The Cowboys wrote up a contract that protects them in the event that he behaves like a turd. Even the team that signed him wonders if he can behave more than one year at a time.

Your attempts to compare signing bonuses are disingenuous at best - Bryant is slated to earn $15 million total over four years; Owens will earn $10 in one year and $18 in two. The Cowboys signed him to a smart contract that protects them. Owens signed a smart contract that gives him a lot of guaranteed money.

Joe Jurevicius signed a four year, ten million dollar contract with the Browns. Owens will make that much in his first year.

Let's call a spade a spade - the Cowboys sought to protect themselves while at the same time giving him a very respectable contract over the next three years. It's win-win, which stands in stark contrast with the adversarial relationship the Eagles had with Owens and many of their other players.

 

[thayman]

I haven't read any of the 123 posts ahead of me and don't have time to plow through all that, but let me go on record, just as I did when he went to Philly:

There is zero chance Owens doesn't screw this up.  He'll shoot off his mouth at Bledsoe or Parcells or another coach, or just in general in front of a camera, and it'll be the beginning of the end.  He will do this because he is incapable of not doing so.

If you really believe this, then by definition you MUST agree with one or more of these three statements:1) that the Eagles were at fault for failing to prepare for or properly deal with the mathematical certainty that Owens would shoot his mouth off,

2) that the Eagles were at fault for bringing Owens in in the first place, or

3) that the time they got from Owens was worth the eventual blowup.

Now, the question is whether another organization - and more specifically, the Cowboys - can properly manage him. I think everyone agrees he's a special talent, and everyone agrees he has social issues and doesn't respond well to adversarial management tactics. I think most of us also agree that Parcells knows how to coach those kinds of players, which is why I tend to disagree with your conclusions.

I disagree. You forget that Owens WANTED to go to Philly, suposedly that is where we wanted to go. His chosen team. I would expect more from a player whose agent had only one client, didn't file his paperwork to make him a FA. He arbitrated out to become an Eagle, instead of a Raven, so I would of thought he would have been a bit happier at being in Philly.

 

[bostonfred]

I haven't read any of the 123 posts ahead of me and don't have time to plow through all that, but let me go on record, just as I did when he went to Philly:

There is zero chance Owens doesn't screw this up.  He'll shoot off his mouth at Bledsoe or Parcells or another coach, or just in general in front of a camera, and it'll be the beginning of the end.  He will do this because he is incapable of not doing so.

If you really believe this, then by definition you MUST agree with one or more of these three statements:1) that the Eagles were at fault for failing to prepare for or properly deal with the mathematical certainty that Owens would shoot his mouth off,

2) that the Eagles were at fault for bringing Owens in in the first place, or

3) that the time they got from Owens was worth the eventual blowup.

Now, the question is whether another organization - and more specifically, the Cowboys - can properly manage him. I think everyone agrees he's a special talent, and everyone agrees he has social issues and doesn't respond well to adversarial management tactics. I think most of us also agree that Parcells knows how to coach those kinds of players, which is why I tend to disagree with your conclusions.

But BF, what makes you think T.O. will be happy in Dallas?

Let's assume there's a 100% chance he ISN'T happy. Can he still be a productive player? Yes. Was he a productive player when he wasn't happy with the Eagles? Yes. The real question is how the team will handle the relationship, not whether he'll be happy. If they can keep him happy, great. If they can't, but can still win with an unhappy Owens, that's great too. If they can't do either, then they shouldn't have signed him in the first place - which is exactly the mistake the Eagles made.

 

[bostonfred]

I haven't read any of the 123 posts ahead of me and don't have time to plow through all that, but let me go on record, just as I did when he went to Philly:

There is zero chance Owens doesn't screw this up.  He'll shoot off his mouth at Bledsoe or Parcells or another coach, or just in general in front of a camera, and it'll be the beginning of the end.  He will do this because he is incapable of not doing so.

If you really believe this, then by definition you MUST agree with one or more of these three statements:1) that the Eagles were at fault for failing to prepare for or properly deal with the mathematical certainty that Owens would shoot his mouth off,

2) that the Eagles were at fault for bringing Owens in in the first place, or

3) that the time they got from Owens was worth the eventual blowup.

Now, the question is whether another organization - and more specifically, the Cowboys - can properly manage him. I think everyone agrees he's a special talent, and everyone agrees he has social issues and doesn't respond well to adversarial management tactics. I think most of us also agree that Parcells knows how to coach those kinds of players, which is why I tend to disagree with your conclusions.

I disagree. You forget that Owens WANTED to go to Philly, suposedly that is where we wanted to go. His chosen team. I would expect more from a player whose agent had only one client, didn't file his paperwork to make him a FA. He arbitrated out to become an Eagle, instead of a Raven, so I would of thought he would have been a bit happier at being in Philly.

You're disagreeing with Couch Potato's analysis, not mine. He's the one who said there was a zero percent chance Owens would be happy with the Eagles.

 

[bostonfred]

BFred...have you ever watched the Pats play?  How are they successful?

In a different way than the Ravens and Cowboys were when they won Superbowls. Why?

No TO in New England or Pitt for that matter.

There is no TO anywhere for that matter...but what both New England and Pittsburgh did do is pickup malcontents that made it publicly known of their disatisfaction of previous teams with both their words and actions. And both of these RB's were very big factors in each of those teams successes in the past two seasons.

 

[massraider]

I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is. 

Don't take our word for it. Take the word of the entire NFL. How many teams have significant cap room right now?And how many rushed out to offer him a deal? Kansas City said no thanks, period. They didn't even wanna talk to him. Denver? Talking a one year deal, incentive-laden. Chicago? They could use a receiver. No call. Pats? Same thing.

Are you serious or are you feigning naivete?Ask yourself which is more likely: that all of the teams that were reported as having contacted Owens, didn't really contact him

Or that many teams contacted him, the Cowboys made the best offer, and the other teams backpedaled, saying they never tried to get him?

It's easy to take a position and claim behind the scenes machinations, but I'm willing to concede that other teams talked to him.And the Cowboys best offer, which I think we can assume was the best he got, included a $5 million SB. Same as Antonio Bryant.

How clear is that? Antonio Bryant, a knucklehead in his own right.

But TO's red flags are so big, and waving so high, that he got the same SB.

One would think that the best WR in the game, arguably, would get a bigger SB than Bryant.

The Cowboys wrote up a contract that protects them in the event that he behaves like a turd. Even the team that signed him wonders if he can behave more than one year at a time.

Your attempts to compare signing bonuses are disingenuous at best - Bryant is slated to earn $15 million total over four years; Owens will earn $10 in one year and $18 in two. The Cowboys signed him to a smart contract that protects them. Owens signed a smart contract that gives him a lot of guaranteed money.

Joe Jurevicius signed a four year, ten million dollar contract with the Browns. Owens will make that much in his first year.

Let's call a spade a spade - the Cowboys sought to protect themselves while at the same time giving him a very respectable contract over the next three years. It's win-win, which stands in stark contrast with the adversarial relationship the Eagles had with Owens and many of their other players.

Owens will earn 18 mill in two years, if the Cowboys choose to give him the roster bonus next year, plus a third year requiring yet anoter commitment from the Boys.Owens will earn this season, the only season of money he will see for sure, about what he cost himself by behaving like a knucklehead. And all he is is a year older.

 

[thayman]

I haven't read any of the 123 posts ahead of me and don't have time to plow through all that, but let me go on record, just as I did when he went to Philly:

There is zero chance Owens doesn't screw this up.  He'll shoot off his mouth at Bledsoe or Parcells or another coach, or just in general in front of a camera, and it'll be the beginning of the end.  He will do this because he is incapable of not doing so.

If you really believe this, then by definition you MUST agree with one or more of these three statements:1) that the Eagles were at fault for failing to prepare for or properly deal with the mathematical certainty that Owens would shoot his mouth off,

2) that the Eagles were at fault for bringing Owens in in the first place, or

3) that the time they got from Owens was worth the eventual blowup.

Now, the question is whether another organization - and more specifically, the Cowboys - can properly manage him. I think everyone agrees he's a special talent, and everyone agrees he has social issues and doesn't respond well to adversarial management tactics. I think most of us also agree that Parcells knows how to coach those kinds of players, which is why I tend to disagree with your conclusions.

I disagree. You forget that Owens WANTED to go to Philly, suposedly that is where we wanted to go. His chosen team. I would expect more from a player whose agent had only one client, didn't file his paperwork to make him a FA. He arbitrated out to become an Eagle, instead of a Raven, so I would of thought he would have been a bit happier at being in Philly.

You're disagreeing with Couch Potato's analysis, not mine. He's the one who said there was a zero percent chance Owens would be happy with the Eagles.

True....I think we are saying the same things in differnt ways

 

[BlueOnion]

I haven't read any of the 123 posts ahead of me and don't have time to plow through all that, but let me go on record, just as I did when he went to Philly:

There is zero chance Owens doesn't screw this up. He'll shoot off his mouth at Bledsoe or Parcells or another coach, or just in general in front of a camera, and it'll be the beginning of the end. He will do this because he is incapable of not doing so.

If you really believe this, then by definition you MUST agree with one or more of these three statements:1) that the Eagles were at fault for failing to prepare for or properly deal with the mathematical certainty that Owens would shoot his mouth off,

2) that the Eagles were at fault for bringing Owens in in the first place, or

3) that the time they got from Owens was worth the eventual blowup.

Now, the question is whether another organization - and more specifically, the Cowboys - can properly manage him. I think everyone agrees he's a special talent, and everyone agrees he has social issues and doesn't respond well to adversarial management tactics. I think most of us also agree that Parcells knows how to coach those kinds of players, which is why I tend to disagree with your conclusions.

But BF, what makes you think T.O. will be happy in Dallas?

Let's assume there's a 100% chance he ISN'T happy. Can he still be a productive player? Yes. Was he a productive player when he wasn't happy with the Eagles? Yes. The real question is how the team will handle the relationship, not whether he'll be happy. If they can keep him happy, great. If they can't, but can still win with an unhappy Owens, that's great too. If they can't do either, then they shouldn't have signed him in the first place - which is exactly the mistake the Eagles made.

That is what is so poisonous about T.O., his shtick is creating anarchy not harmony (on any level). As soon as he gets what he wants, he'll change what he wants. I love the guy and I group him with Peyton Manning and Troy Polumalu when it comes to players I would pay big money to see play; they are simply that good. But I think T.O. genuinely feels uncomfortable when he is getting along with others.

Edited to add - As soon as T.O.'s teammates reach a level of being comfortable with him or tolerating him, this is the point at which T.O. becomes unhappy.

 

[thayman]

he is narcasiccitc. (SP) that is what his problem is....and why he will always have a problem with every team and every contract he signs.

 

[bostonfred]

Wow, and Im no Manning fan, but to compare the behavior of TO to that of Peyton Manning is about as big a slap in the face as Ive seen. Manning was needled and needled and needled and needled and needled by reporters for that half second blurb of a sound byte. TO opens his mouth up when noone asks and just starts acting like a friggin' idiot and throws everyone he's got a gripe with under the bus. he's volunterring this type of BS....Manning his being tortured just to say a bad word.

That's patently untrue. Here's the Owens interview:Owens did NOT volunteer any negative comments about McNabb - he agreed with his close friend's comment when the interviewer quoted it to him. When asked about McNabb, the comments he volunteered were all very positive, except to say that McNabb was injured, and that that was hindering him.

On the other hand, when asked about the playoff loss against the Steelers, Manning responded with comments like "Let's just say we had some protection problems," and "One play [the question was about Vanderjagt's kick] is not the reason the Colts didn't win this game, but it kind of lets you know that it is over."

 

[BlueOnion]

Wow, and Im no Manning fan, but to compare the behavior of TO to that of Peyton Manning is about as big a slap in the face as Ive seen. Manning was needled and needled and needled and needled and needled by reporters for that half second blurb of a sound byte. TO opens his mouth up when noone asks and just starts acting like a friggin' idiot and throws everyone he's got a gripe with under the bus. he's volunterring this type of BS....Manning his being tortured just to say a bad word.

That's patently untrue. Here's the Owens interview:Owens did NOT volunteer any negative comments about McNabb - he agreed with his close friend's comment when the interviewer quoted it to him. When asked about McNabb, the comments he volunteered were all very positive, except to say that McNabb was injured, and that that was hindering him.

On the other hand, when asked about the playoff loss against the Steelers, Manning responded with comments like "Let's just say we had some protection problems," and "One play [the question was about Vanderjagt's kick] is not the reason the Colts didn't win this game, but it kind of lets you know that it is over."

You don't give Owens enough credit. He clearly did not have to spell out his feelings verbatim to make his point; Owens had been taking shots at McNabb for some time prior to that interview.

 

[bostonfred]

I haven't read any of the 123 posts ahead of me and don't have time to plow through all that, but let me go on record, just as I did when he went to Philly:

There is zero chance Owens doesn't screw this up.  He'll shoot off his mouth at Bledsoe or Parcells or another coach, or just in general in front of a camera, and it'll be the beginning of the end.  He will do this because he is incapable of not doing so.

If you really believe this, then by definition you MUST agree with one or more of these three statements:1) that the Eagles were at fault for failing to prepare for or properly deal with the mathematical certainty that Owens would shoot his mouth off,

2) that the Eagles were at fault for bringing Owens in in the first place, or

3) that the time they got from Owens was worth the eventual blowup.

Now, the question is whether another organization - and more specifically, the Cowboys - can properly manage him. I think everyone agrees he's a special talent, and everyone agrees he has social issues and doesn't respond well to adversarial management tactics. I think most of us also agree that Parcells knows how to coach those kinds of players, which is why I tend to disagree with your conclusions.

But BF, what makes you think T.O. will be happy in Dallas?

Let's assume there's a 100% chance he ISN'T happy. Can he still be a productive player? Yes. Was he a productive player when he wasn't happy with the Eagles? Yes. The real question is how the team will handle the relationship, not whether he'll be happy. If they can keep him happy, great. If they can't, but can still win with an unhappy Owens, that's great too. If they can't do either, then they shouldn't have signed him in the first place - which is exactly the mistake the Eagles made.

That is what is so poisonous about T.O., his shtick is creating anarchy not harmony (on any level). As soon as he gets what he wants, he'll change what he wants. I love the guy and I group him with Peyton Manning and Troy Polumalu when it comes to players I would pay big money to see play; they are simply that good. But I think T.O. genuinely feels uncomfortable when he is getting along with others.

Edited to add - As soon as T.O.'s teammates reach a level of being comfortable with him or tolerating him, this is the point at which T.O. becomes unhappy.

You're not really responding to my post, or even to the part you bolded, but I'll play along. You make it sound like it's the end of the world if the guy's unhappy or uncomfortable. Why?

You make it sound like he destroys teams. Why are his teams more successful when he plays for them than when he doesn't?

In my opinion, it doesn't matter if he's unhappy. Unhappy people can still be productive. In fact, Owens specifically has been very productive while unhappy. And so have the players around him.

 

[bostonfred]

As previous posters have said, TO's psychological faults (narcisism being the most obvious one) have given him the drive to be one of the best WRs the game has ever seen. But those same faults have caused people to reject him despite his great talent.

Whether or not he helps the Cowboys (or whatever team(s) he lands on after that) to win the Superbowl, his legacy will forever be tied to his off-field antics.

pt the consequences of our actions.

OK. He's narcissistic. He is dislikable. He has many off-field antics. His legacy is forever tarnished. He kicks puppies. He doesn't like babies or rainbows. He voted for Bush, and is part of the 37% that still approves of him. He once went to your house and drank your last beer without asking. Now that we've put that aside, why is he such a cancer that a team can't win with his obviously incredible talent?

 

[bostonfred]

I've read through this entire thread convinced that it was just one big

But I've come to the realization that the point that bostonfred is trying to make (poorly in my opinion) is that as long as you are talented, you should be given a free pass for any unrelated transgressions. Well, that just not how the world works. No matter who we are, we have to accept the consequences of our actions.

That's not even close to my point. Owens received the maximum suspension for his actions. He then received the biggest penalty that has ever been given for conduct detrimental to the team. The suspension was so harsh that the CBA was rewritten to disallow it during the recent renegotiations. How exactly has he failed to accept the consequences of his actions?

There are rapists, wifebeaters and whatever you want to call Ray Lewis getting MVP consideration. Why aren't they getting even a fraction of the vitriol reserved for Owens? It seems like people have their priorities out of whack.

 

[BlueOnion]

You're not really responding to my post, or even to the part you bolded, but I'll play along.

You make it sound like it's the end of the world if the guy's unhappy or uncomfortable. Why?

You make it sound like he destroys teams. Why are his teams more successful when he plays for them than when he doesn't?

In my opinion, it doesn't matter if he's unhappy. Unhappy people can still be productive. In fact, Owens specifically has been very productive while unhappy. And so have the players around him.

Ok, I see where you were going now, so I am not sure which direction to go from here; your original direction or the direction I thought you were going.There are two types of unhappy players; there are those who will still be cooperative with the team direction and be unhappy at the same time, and there are those who will opt to be more destructive than cooperative when they are unhappy. T.O. is clearly the later.

Here are the facts that I am looking which makes me believe T.O. is a cancer.

1) He was the 49ers best player and they couldn't wait to get rid of him.

2) T.O. was considered a cancer and Ray Lewis lobbied for him and defended him in the media. T.O. mocked him.

3) The Eagles thought he had amazing talent, but were cautious of what they perceived as a real character concern, so they didn't give him a lot of guaranteed money.

4) The Eagles deactivated him and nobody on the Eagles said he was not guilty of the crime (I believe the players that did speak out said the punishment did not fit the crime).

5) The Cowboys think he has amazing talent, but were cautious of what they perceived as a real character concern, so they didn't give him a lot of guaranteed money.

Has any player come out and said, "We need to get this guy on our team!" I don't think so, I think some players have said they wouldn't be opposed to it.

Has any team come out and said they would give T.O. his big guaranteed contract that players of his ability deserve? I don't heard of any.

I kepp telling everyone I love the guy, but he is what he is; a cancer and a timebomb, just waiting to explode and I don't think T.O. would have it any other way.

 

[bostonfred]

Here are the facts that I am looking which makes me believe T.O. is a cancer.1) He was the 49ers best player and they couldn't wait to get rid of him.

That's not true. He asked to be traded. There's a difference.

2) T.O. was considered a cancer and Ray Lewis lobbied for him and defended him in the media.  T.O. mocked him.

You're right, Ray Lewis did lobby for him. Do you have a link to Owens mocking him? The only person I can remember him not wanting to play with was Boller, and it turns out the Ravens agree.

3) The Eagles thought he had amazing talent, but were cautious of what they perceived as a real character concern, so they didn't give him a lot of guaranteed money.

No team would give their player a lot of guaranteed money if they didn't have to. Owens' agent negotiated a bad deal. So bad that the NFLPA urged Owens not to sign it. This isn't proof of him being a cancer. This is another incidence of the Eagles' long and storied tradition of lowballing players and playing hardball to get the best possible contract. While that adversarial relationship works with many players, it clearly did not work with Owens.

4) The Eagles deactivated him and nobody on the Eagles said he was not guilty of the crime (I believe the players that did speak out said the punishment did not fit the crime).

I agree. He did many bad things.

5) The Cowboys think he has amazing talent, but were cautious of what they perceived as a real character concern, so they didn't give him a lot of guaranteed money.

They gave him $10 million in his first year, which is near the top of the NFL's salary range. They gave him more money in his first two years than Harrison received in the first two years of his deal, and more in his three years than Moss got in his three years. It sure seems like he got a lot of money.

Has any player come out and said, "We need to get this guy on our team!"  I don't think so, I think some players have said they wouldn't be opposed to it.

No. Most teams and players are aware of the current air of negativity surrounding Owens in the media. Why would anyone subject themselves to that kind of negative attention? But as you said, many players wanted him when it wasn't in fashion to call him a team cancer, most memorably Ray Lewis.

Has any team come out and said they would give T.O. his big guaranteed contract that players of his ability deserve?  I don't heard of any.

Yes. The Chiefs allegedly made several attempts not only to sign him, but to trade for him. The Patriots also expressed interest but tried to keep it quiet because they knew that it wouldn't be popular. The Cowboys expressed the most interest, and gave him a very lucrative deal that is arguably one of the best in the NFL for a wide receiver.

 

[GATOR HATER]

JERK

 

[thayman]

Here are the facts that I am looking which makes me believe T.O. is a cancer.

1) He was the 49ers best player and they couldn't wait to get rid of him.

That's not true. He asked to be traded. There's a difference.

2) T.O. was considered a cancer and Ray Lewis lobbied for him and defended him in the media.  T.O. mocked him.

You're right, Ray Lewis did lobby for him. Do you have a link to Owens mocking him? The only person I can remember him not wanting to play with was Boller, and it turns out the Ravens agree.

3) The Eagles thought he had amazing talent, but were cautious of what they perceived as a real character concern, so they didn't give him a lot of guaranteed money.

No team would give their player a lot of guaranteed money if they didn't have to. Owens' agent negotiated a bad deal. So bad that the NFLPA urged Owens not to sign it. This isn't proof of him being a cancer. This is another incidence of the Eagles' long and storied tradition of lowballing players and playing hardball to get the best possible contract. While that adversarial relationship works with many players, it clearly did not work with Owens.

4) The Eagles deactivated him and nobody on the Eagles said he was not guilty of the crime (I believe the players that did speak out said the punishment did not fit the crime).

I agree. He did many bad things.

5) The Cowboys think he has amazing talent, but were cautious of what they perceived as a real character concern, so they didn't give him a lot of guaranteed money.

They gave him $10 million in his first year, which is near the top of the NFL's salary range. They gave him more money in his first two years than Harrison received in the first two years of his deal, and more in his three years than Moss got in his three years. It sure seems like he got a lot of money.

Has any player come out and said, "We need to get this guy on our team!"  I don't think so, I think some players have said they wouldn't be opposed to it.

No. Most teams and players are aware of the current air of negativity surrounding Owens in the media. Why would anyone subject themselves to that kind of negative attention? But as you said, many players wanted him when it wasn't in fashion to call him a team cancer, most memorably Ray Lewis.

Has any team come out and said they would give T.O. his big guaranteed contract that players of his ability deserve?  I don't heard of any.

Yes. The Chiefs allegedly made several attempts not only to sign him, but to trade for him. The Patriots also expressed interest but tried to keep it quiet because they knew that it wouldn't be popular. The Cowboys expressed the most interest, and gave him a very lucrative deal that is arguably one of the best in the NFL for a wide receiver.

TO is the definition of a cancer. You can't begin to list what he has done to define how he is poison to a locker room, and your team. I'm all about giving someone a second chance, but TO is working on his third (fourth if you count Baltimore)

 

[allaces10]

BostonFred has no point..no direction...no questions..and certainly no answers...he is here for one thing and thing only...to argue..with every single one of you...about every detail...with as much spin as he can muster...for as long as you fuel this. I cant believe you let this guy sucker you all the way to page 4....

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

BostonFred has no point..no direction...no questions..and certainly no answers...he is here for one thing and thing only...to argue..with every single one of you...about every detail...with as much spin as he can muster...for as long as you fuel this. I cant believe you let this guy sucker you all the way to page 4....

I do however think that Boston Fred has done an admirable job trying to defend one of the worst team players in the history of professional sports. I really don't think BF believes what he is saying, or maybe he does believe it because at this point he has been defending TO so greatly that he actually does believe what he writes. At this point in TO's career I think it is ludicris to say TO is not a cancer!!

What I do agree with in BF's argument is the unanswered question on whether or not TO is to much of a cancer where the team can or can't win that SB with him. I believe TO's best opportunity passed him by in Philly and I don't think he will get that chance again in Dallas and probably anywhere for that matter, therefore making him a cancer that never succeeded (winning a SB) because of his many on field and off field tirades. Until he wins a SB he will be known as a cancer that was one of the best players to play the game but could not climb to the top of the mountain and (win a SB) because of his attitude. Just like Peyton might be known as one of the best players that could not over come the playoff pressure and will forever be labeled as a chocker, of course unless he wins that SB. Unless TO wins a SB he has dug himself a hole to deep whereas he will be known as a great player but a cancer to his teams whereas it ended up hurting them more than helping them. I think he will forever be remembered as a great player that was a cancer to his teams and only cared for himself and would rather break records than win SB's.

Of course To would love to win a SB because he does love winning, but if his team won the SB and he caught 1 ball for 6 yards with no TD's in that game, he would probably have a hard time celebrating that win. TO is a rare specimen that has left a wake of destruction in his path. I think it continues in a downward spiral because even if he has an amazing year he will find a way to mess it up somehow. And of course unless his team wins a SBsometime in the near future he is going to be deamed a cancerous failure, not exactly the type of pressure and scrutiny TO is good at dealing with.

 

[BlueOnion]

BostonFred has no point..no direction...no questions..and certainly no answers...he is here for one thing and thing only...to argue..with every single one of you...about every detail...with as much spin as he can muster...for as long as you fuel this. I cant believe you let this guy sucker you all the way to page 4....

I believe the point BF is trying to make is that nobody here has actually worked with T.O. or knows anybody personally who has worked with T.O. and [see thread title] BF is asking, in general, do people crucify T.O. because of what the media says about him?I can defend T.O., it just comes down to which platform I want to start from. BF is coming from a 'me first, team second' position, which makes defending T.O. quite easily; it is the responsibility of the team to accomodate T.O., not T.O.'s responsibility to fit into the team. If we were to take the position of 'team first, individuality second', then it becomes more difficult to defend T.O.

But as long as BF maintains a 'me first, team second' mentality, than it is going to be almost impossible to change his mind as to whether T.O. is a cancer and\or how much he is a cancer.

 

[massraider]

Has any team come out and said they would give T.O. his big guaranteed contract that players of his ability deserve?  I don't heard of any.

Yes. The Chiefs allegedly made several attempts not only to sign him, but to trade for him. The Patriots also expressed interest but tried to keep it quiet because they knew that it wouldn't be popular. The Cowboys expressed the most interest, and gave him a very lucrative deal that is arguably one of the best in the NFL for a wide receiver.

You demand links for the most minor of comments that someone makes, if you don't remember it that way, but present internet rumors as fact.

By the way, the answer to his question? The answer is "NO".

Not only did no team come out and say they would give him the guaranteed money he deserved, but no other team offered him a contract, period, as far as we know.

AS to the wonderful deal he signed, the money he earns in 2006, is the same he cost himself last year.

 

[BassNBrew]

There's one thing I can't stand in the game of football and that's a player critisizing his teammates and saying the the team be better off with another player.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - teammates should stick by each other and help each get better.   Look at all the crap Manning got for even mentioning breakdowns in protections and he didn't even call out a specific player.  

I can understand why you feel that way, and I don't disagree with it. In an ideal world, players - especially great players - wouldn't call each other out, especially in public. And there are some people who really just don't get it. Owens is one of them. I don't think that's enough to say that he's going to sink whatever team he goes to. His record certainly reflects that, and apparently Parcells and Jones agree. And I don't think it's such a huge sin that he's going to be a locker room cancer. Especially in a locker room that just got rid of Keyshawn and, before that, Irvin. And gets yelled at on a constant basis in a state that lives and breathes football. I think professional football players have a thicker skin than that, and that's why - while I agree that I don't like his comments - I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is.

With regards to Manning, what made his comments so bad, and IMO (not fishing here) possibly worse than Owens', is that Owens had a great game in the Superbowl, and called out his teammate. Manning had a bad game in the playoffs, far from the first time it's happened, and he blamed it on his teammates. That's a huge difference - there's a certain moral highground that comes from playing your best that Manning doesn't get to claim here, but Owens - despite all the other things you may not like about him - does.

Owens had a 'nice' game. A GREAT game would have been 130something and a COUPLE OF TDS.....one possibly a game winner. Thats greatness. How many TDs did he actually score in that game? Not a single friggin' one in the most OVERRATED "great" game Ive never seen. Not a great game.....nice game, yes....'great' game?...uh, uh. Great games usually result in wins. Very admirable that he played well in the Superbowl, and we all know he was the first to tell us all as soon as the game was over how much the doubters were all wrong, but his team lost and the guy was celebrating his "GREAT" game like he'd just hit the lottery. Team just lost the biggest game of their lives and he's jumpin' hoops! Guy just doesnt get it.....what else do you need to know?

A GREAT game was playing injured, catching 9 balls for 122 yards, drawing a safety away from Lewis for his TD, and getting them in position to win the game. Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired.

Agree with you there, the PATS were the luckiest team in history and certainly weren't a dynasty. Take away McNabb and Kasey getting tired and the league's disdain for Oakland and what you end up with is the second coming of the Bills.

 

[thayman]

There's one thing I can't stand in the game of football and that's a player critisizing his teammates and saying the the team be better off with another player.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - teammates should stick by each other and help each get better.   Look at all the crap Manning got for even mentioning breakdowns in protections and he didn't even call out a specific player.  

I can understand why you feel that way, and I don't disagree with it. In an ideal world, players - especially great players - wouldn't call each other out, especially in public. And there are some people who really just don't get it. Owens is one of them. I don't think that's enough to say that he's going to sink whatever team he goes to. His record certainly reflects that, and apparently Parcells and Jones agree. And I don't think it's such a huge sin that he's going to be a locker room cancer. Especially in a locker room that just got rid of Keyshawn and, before that, Irvin. And gets yelled at on a constant basis in a state that lives and breathes football. I think professional football players have a thicker skin than that, and that's why - while I agree that I don't like his comments - I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is.

With regards to Manning, what made his comments so bad, and IMO (not fishing here) possibly worse than Owens', is that Owens had a great game in the Superbowl, and called out his teammate. Manning had a bad game in the playoffs, far from the first time it's happened, and he blamed it on his teammates. That's a huge difference - there's a certain moral highground that comes from playing your best that Manning doesn't get to claim here, but Owens - despite all the other things you may not like about him - does.

Owens had a 'nice' game. A GREAT game would have been 130something and a COUPLE OF TDS.....one possibly a game winner. Thats greatness. How many TDs did he actually score in that game? Not a single friggin' one in the most OVERRATED "great" game Ive never seen. Not a great game.....nice game, yes....'great' game?...uh, uh. Great games usually result in wins. Very admirable that he played well in the Superbowl, and we all know he was the first to tell us all as soon as the game was over how much the doubters were all wrong, but his team lost and the guy was celebrating his "GREAT" game like he'd just hit the lottery. Team just lost the biggest game of their lives and he's jumpin' hoops! Guy just doesnt get it.....what else do you need to know?

A GREAT game was playing injured, catching 9 balls for 122 yards, drawing a safety away from Lewis for his TD, and getting them in position to win the game. Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired.

Agree with you there, the PATS were the luckiest team in history and certainly weren't a dynasty. Take away McNabb and Kasey getting tired and the league's disdain for Oakland and what you end up with is the second coming of the Bills.

I dont like the Pats, but 3 SB in 4 years?? Their incredible home game winning streak? come on.....

 

[BassNBrew]

There's one thing I can't stand in the game of football and that's a player critisizing his teammates and saying the the team be better off with another player.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - teammates should stick by each other and help each get better.   Look at all the crap Manning got for even mentioning breakdowns in protections and he didn't even call out a specific player.  

I can understand why you feel that way, and I don't disagree with it. In an ideal world, players - especially great players - wouldn't call each other out, especially in public. And there are some people who really just don't get it. Owens is one of them. I don't think that's enough to say that he's going to sink whatever team he goes to. His record certainly reflects that, and apparently Parcells and Jones agree. And I don't think it's such a huge sin that he's going to be a locker room cancer. Especially in a locker room that just got rid of Keyshawn and, before that, Irvin. And gets yelled at on a constant basis in a state that lives and breathes football. I think professional football players have a thicker skin than that, and that's why - while I agree that I don't like his comments - I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is.

With regards to Manning, what made his comments so bad, and IMO (not fishing here) possibly worse than Owens', is that Owens had a great game in the Superbowl, and called out his teammate. Manning had a bad game in the playoffs, far from the first time it's happened, and he blamed it on his teammates. That's a huge difference - there's a certain moral highground that comes from playing your best that Manning doesn't get to claim here, but Owens - despite all the other things you may not like about him - does.

Owens had a 'nice' game. A GREAT game would have been 130something and a COUPLE OF TDS.....one possibly a game winner. Thats greatness. How many TDs did he actually score in that game? Not a single friggin' one in the most OVERRATED "great" game Ive never seen. Not a great game.....nice game, yes....'great' game?...uh, uh. Great games usually result in wins. Very admirable that he played well in the Superbowl, and we all know he was the first to tell us all as soon as the game was over how much the doubters were all wrong, but his team lost and the guy was celebrating his "GREAT" game like he'd just hit the lottery. Team just lost the biggest game of their lives and he's jumpin' hoops! Guy just doesnt get it.....what else do you need to know?

A GREAT game was playing injured, catching 9 balls for 122 yards, drawing a safety away from Lewis for his TD, and getting them in position to win the game. Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired.

Agree with you there, the PATS were the luckiest team in history and certainly weren't a dynasty. Take away McNabb and Kasey getting tired and the league's disdain for Oakland and what you end up with is the second coming of the Bills.

I dont like the Pats, but 3 SB in 4 years?? Their incredible home game winning streak? come on.....

Gotta be true...I mean Bfred said..."Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired."

 

[gman8343]

This thread appears to have swayed many people from their stances on Terrell Owens.

 

[SoloMatisse]

Wow, and Im no Manning fan, but to compare the behavior of TO to that of Peyton Manning is about as big a slap in the face as Ive seen.  Manning was needled and needled and needled and needled and needled by reporters for that half second blurb of a sound byte.  TO opens his mouth up when noone asks and just starts acting like a friggin' idiot and throws everyone he's got a gripe with under the bus.  he's volunterring this type of BS....Manning his being tortured just to say a bad word. 

That's patently untrue. Here's the Owens interview:Owens did NOT volunteer any negative comments about McNabb - he agreed with his close friend's comment when the interviewer quoted it to him. When asked about McNabb, the comments he volunteered were all very positive, except to say that McNabb was injured, and that that was hindering him.

On the other hand, when asked about the playoff loss against the Steelers, Manning responded with comments like "Let's just say we had some protection problems," and "One play [the question was about Vanderjagt's kick] is not the reason the Colts didn't win this game, but it kind of lets you know that it is over."

Where are you going with all this fantatical defense of the 2nd most disliked figure in sports? This is a road I hate to see anyone travel down, but hey to each his own. But nowhere in my quote did I even mention Donovan McNabb. Or am I mistaken and did I single him out? I didnt mention that TO volunteered anything on DM, but on everyone in general he has the slightest beef with. And sadly, and kindof WEAKLY, its all about this kid's hunger for attention that fuels his behavior. Defending anything but his play on the field is really unnessecary. And we all saw the Philly/NE Superbowl, and we all know TO played a 'nice' game, but had it been a great game he would have led his team to a win. But lucky for NE, that McNabb guy didnt eat his wheaties. Where would the Pats be without him?

 

[SoloMatisse]

There's one thing I can't stand in the game of football and that's a player critisizing his teammates and saying the the team be better off with another player.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - teammates should stick by each other and help each get better.   Look at all the crap Manning got for even mentioning breakdowns in protections and he didn't even call out a specific player.  

I can understand why you feel that way, and I don't disagree with it. In an ideal world, players - especially great players - wouldn't call each other out, especially in public. And there are some people who really just don't get it. Owens is one of them. I don't think that's enough to say that he's going to sink whatever team he goes to. His record certainly reflects that, and apparently Parcells and Jones agree. And I don't think it's such a huge sin that he's going to be a locker room cancer. Especially in a locker room that just got rid of Keyshawn and, before that, Irvin. And gets yelled at on a constant basis in a state that lives and breathes football. I think professional football players have a thicker skin than that, and that's why - while I agree that I don't like his comments - I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is.

With regards to Manning, what made his comments so bad, and IMO (not fishing here) possibly worse than Owens', is that Owens had a great game in the Superbowl, and called out his teammate. Manning had a bad game in the playoffs, far from the first time it's happened, and he blamed it on his teammates. That's a huge difference - there's a certain moral highground that comes from playing your best that Manning doesn't get to claim here, but Owens - despite all the other things you may not like about him - does.

Owens had a 'nice' game. A GREAT game would have been 130something and a COUPLE OF TDS.....one possibly a game winner. Thats greatness. How many TDs did he actually score in that game? Not a single friggin' one in the most OVERRATED "great" game Ive never seen. Not a great game.....nice game, yes....'great' game?...uh, uh. Great games usually result in wins. Very admirable that he played well in the Superbowl, and we all know he was the first to tell us all as soon as the game was over how much the doubters were all wrong, but his team lost and the guy was celebrating his "GREAT" game like he'd just hit the lottery. Team just lost the biggest game of their lives and he's jumpin' hoops! Guy just doesnt get it.....what else do you need to know?

A GREAT game was playing injured, catching 9 balls for 122 yards, drawing a safety away from Lewis for his TD, and getting them in position to win the game. Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired.

Agree with you there, the PATS were the luckiest team in history and certainly weren't a dynasty. Take away McNabb and Kasey getting tired and the league's disdain for Oakland and what you end up with is the second coming of the Bills.

Thats the ultimate slap in the face....a Buffalo Bills comparison. After winning 21 straight and 3 SBs? Wow......

 

[BassNBrew]

There's one thing I can't stand in the game of football and that's a player critisizing his teammates and saying the the team be better off with another player.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - teammates should stick by each other and help each get better.   Look at all the crap Manning got for even mentioning breakdowns in protections and he didn't even call out a specific player.  

I can understand why you feel that way, and I don't disagree with it. In an ideal world, players - especially great players - wouldn't call each other out, especially in public. And there are some people who really just don't get it. Owens is one of them. I don't think that's enough to say that he's going to sink whatever team he goes to. His record certainly reflects that, and apparently Parcells and Jones agree. And I don't think it's such a huge sin that he's going to be a locker room cancer. Especially in a locker room that just got rid of Keyshawn and, before that, Irvin. And gets yelled at on a constant basis in a state that lives and breathes football. I think professional football players have a thicker skin than that, and that's why - while I agree that I don't like his comments - I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is.

With regards to Manning, what made his comments so bad, and IMO (not fishing here) possibly worse than Owens', is that Owens had a great game in the Superbowl, and called out his teammate. Manning had a bad game in the playoffs, far from the first time it's happened, and he blamed it on his teammates. That's a huge difference - there's a certain moral highground that comes from playing your best that Manning doesn't get to claim here, but Owens - despite all the other things you may not like about him - does.

Owens had a 'nice' game. A GREAT game would have been 130something and a COUPLE OF TDS.....one possibly a game winner. Thats greatness. How many TDs did he actually score in that game? Not a single friggin' one in the most OVERRATED "great" game Ive never seen. Not a great game.....nice game, yes....'great' game?...uh, uh. Great games usually result in wins. Very admirable that he played well in the Superbowl, and we all know he was the first to tell us all as soon as the game was over how much the doubters were all wrong, but his team lost and the guy was celebrating his "GREAT" game like he'd just hit the lottery. Team just lost the biggest game of their lives and he's jumpin' hoops! Guy just doesnt get it.....what else do you need to know?

A GREAT game was playing injured, catching 9 balls for 122 yards, drawing a safety away from Lewis for his TD, and getting them in position to win the game. Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired.

Agree with you there, the PATS were the luckiest team in history and certainly weren't a dynasty. Take away McNabb and Kasey getting tired and the league's disdain for Oakland and what you end up with is the second coming of the Bills.

Thats the ultimate slap in the face....a Buffalo Bills comparison. After winning 21 straight and 3 SBs? Wow......

Bfred convinced me...TO is God, the Eagles are the dumbest franchise in the league, and the Pats suck.

 

[bostonfred]

Wow, and Im no Manning fan, but to compare the behavior of TO to that of Peyton Manning is about as big a slap in the face as Ive seen.  Manning was needled and needled and needled and needled and needled by reporters for that half second blurb of a sound byte.  TO opens his mouth up when noone asks and just starts acting like a friggin' idiot and throws everyone he's got a gripe with under the bus.  he's volunterring this type of BS....Manning his being tortured just to say a bad word. 

That's patently untrue. Here's the Owens interview:Owens did NOT volunteer any negative comments about McNabb - he agreed with his close friend's comment when the interviewer quoted it to him. When asked about McNabb, the comments he volunteered were all very positive, except to say that McNabb was injured, and that that was hindering him.

On the other hand, when asked about the playoff loss against the Steelers, Manning responded with comments like "Let's just say we had some protection problems," and "One play [the question was about Vanderjagt's kick] is not the reason the Colts didn't win this game, but it kind of lets you know that it is over."

Where are you going with all this fantatical defense of the 2nd most disliked figure in sports? This is a road I hate to see anyone travel down, but hey to each his own. But nowhere in my quote did I even mention Donovan McNabb. Or am I mistaken and did I single him out? I didnt mention that TO volunteered anything on DM, but on everyone in general he has the slightest beef with. And sadly, and kindof WEAKLY, its all about this kid's hunger for attention that fuels his behavior. Defending anything but his play on the field is really unnessecary. And we all saw the Philly/NE Superbowl, and we all know TO played a 'nice' game, but had it been a great game he would have led his team to a win. But lucky for NE, that McNabb guy didnt eat his wheaties. Where would the Pats be without him?

I'm not defending him, per se. But I STRONGLY disagree that he should be the "2nd most disliked player in sports", with wifebeaters and rapists and cheaters and Ray Lewis ahead of him on the most liked list. Where are people's priorities? And I also disagree that he'll hurt whichever team he goes to. He's one of the best players ever to play the position. Lots of receivers have huge egos and think they made their quarterback. Owens just happens to be too stupid not to say it in front of a camera.

I think people here have taken the sensationalized version of Owens that they've been fed by the ESPNs of the world and run with it, and it clouds their judgement of one of the best and most entertaining players in sports.

 

[bostonfred]

There's one thing I can't stand in the game of football and that's a player critisizing his teammates and saying the the team be better off with another player.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - teammates should stick by each other and help each get better.   Look at all the crap Manning got for even mentioning breakdowns in protections and he didn't even call out a specific player.  

I can understand why you feel that way, and I don't disagree with it. In an ideal world, players - especially great players - wouldn't call each other out, especially in public. And there are some people who really just don't get it. Owens is one of them. I don't think that's enough to say that he's going to sink whatever team he goes to. His record certainly reflects that, and apparently Parcells and Jones agree. And I don't think it's such a huge sin that he's going to be a locker room cancer. Especially in a locker room that just got rid of Keyshawn and, before that, Irvin. And gets yelled at on a constant basis in a state that lives and breathes football. I think professional football players have a thicker skin than that, and that's why - while I agree that I don't like his comments - I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is.

With regards to Manning, what made his comments so bad, and IMO (not fishing here) possibly worse than Owens', is that Owens had a great game in the Superbowl, and called out his teammate. Manning had a bad game in the playoffs, far from the first time it's happened, and he blamed it on his teammates. That's a huge difference - there's a certain moral highground that comes from playing your best that Manning doesn't get to claim here, but Owens - despite all the other things you may not like about him - does.

Owens had a 'nice' game. A GREAT game would have been 130something and a COUPLE OF TDS.....one possibly a game winner. Thats greatness. How many TDs did he actually score in that game? Not a single friggin' one in the most OVERRATED "great" game Ive never seen. Not a great game.....nice game, yes....'great' game?...uh, uh. Great games usually result in wins. Very admirable that he played well in the Superbowl, and we all know he was the first to tell us all as soon as the game was over how much the doubters were all wrong, but his team lost and the guy was celebrating his "GREAT" game like he'd just hit the lottery. Team just lost the biggest game of their lives and he's jumpin' hoops! Guy just doesnt get it.....what else do you need to know?

A GREAT game was playing injured, catching 9 balls for 122 yards, drawing a safety away from Lewis for his TD, and getting them in position to win the game. Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired.

Agree with you there, the PATS were the luckiest team in history and certainly weren't a dynasty. Take away McNabb and Kasey getting tired and the league's disdain for Oakland and what you end up with is the second coming of the Bills.

I dont like the Pats, but 3 SB in 4 years?? Their incredible home game winning streak? come on.....

Gotta be true...I mean Bfred said..."Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired."

I sure did. The Patriots were definitely fortunate that the Eagles quarterback wasn't able to make plays at the end of the game. Of course, one of the many things that made them a championship team is the fact that they were. If you're such a Panthers fan, though, shouldn't you be spelling Kasay's name right?

 

[bostonfred]

This thread appears to have swayed many people from their stances on Terrell Owens.

This thread didn't seek to sway people who didn't like Owens. I asked you to sway me. So far, nobody has. I asked for people, in their own words, to say what makes him bad. So far, I've gotten three types of responses: a laundry list of his past actions with little to no discussion about why he'd do it again, speculation on the kind of player that takes those past actions, and comments that I'm stupid for not realizing how bad he is.

I know it seems like I'm just arguing against whatever people say, but the whole point of the exercise is to hear someone make a case for which there isn't a clear response.

He did bad things during his contract renegotiation with the Eagles? OK, but the reason he did those bad things is gone. He's not holding out, he has a good QB, he has a good contract, and he has a top quality coach and management who want him and who aren't taking an adversarial approach with him. I agree that it was a poorly thought out negotiation tactic, but you can't extrapolate his bad behavior when he was trying to get released into his regular season attitude any more than you can extrapolate that Walter Jones doesn't play football because he holds out seemingly every year.

He said bad things about Garcia? I don't blame him for not wanting to play with Garcia. I blame him for saying things in public, but I guess I don't expect as much from my football players. I'm not a fan of his comments, I don't think he exemplifies teamwork, I think he could spoil the wrong locker room with the wrong coach, but I hardly think he's an uncoachable demon who is worse than the wifebeating rapists that don't get suspended/benched for the entire season.

I've heard varying repetitions of the same arguments in here, but I'm looking for someone to make a case that hasn't been made, to find something that resonates with me, that makes me believe that he's as bad as you all say he is. Instead, I get a hundred comments saying he's bad, and a handful repeating the above bulletpoints. I guess I was hoping that such strong feelings could be articulated well by SOMEONE on a board this big.

 

[BlueOnion]

He did bad things during his contract renegotiation with the Eagles? OK, but the reason he did those bad things is gone.

BF -Do you have a link to support this statement or a legit argument supporting it?

 

[Tau837]

He did bad things during his contract renegotiation with the Eagles?  OK, but the reason he did those bad things is gone. 

BF -Do you have a link to support this statement or a legit argument supporting it?

 

[BassNBrew]

There's one thing I can't stand in the game of football and that's a player critisizing his teammates and saying the the team be better off with another player.  Whether it's true or not is irrelevant - teammates should stick by each other and help each get better.   Look at all the crap Manning got for even mentioning breakdowns in protections and he didn't even call out a specific player.  

I can understand why you feel that way, and I don't disagree with it. In an ideal world, players - especially great players - wouldn't call each other out, especially in public. And there are some people who really just don't get it. Owens is one of them. I don't think that's enough to say that he's going to sink whatever team he goes to. His record certainly reflects that, and apparently Parcells and Jones agree. And I don't think it's such a huge sin that he's going to be a locker room cancer. Especially in a locker room that just got rid of Keyshawn and, before that, Irvin. And gets yelled at on a constant basis in a state that lives and breathes football. I think professional football players have a thicker skin than that, and that's why - while I agree that I don't like his comments - I don't think he's the cancer that so many here say he is.

With regards to Manning, what made his comments so bad, and IMO (not fishing here) possibly worse than Owens', is that Owens had a great game in the Superbowl, and called out his teammate. Manning had a bad game in the playoffs, far from the first time it's happened, and he blamed it on his teammates. That's a huge difference - there's a certain moral highground that comes from playing your best that Manning doesn't get to claim here, but Owens - despite all the other things you may not like about him - does.

Owens had a 'nice' game. A GREAT game would have been 130something and a COUPLE OF TDS.....one possibly a game winner. Thats greatness. How many TDs did he actually score in that game? Not a single friggin' one in the most OVERRATED "great" game Ive never seen. Not a great game.....nice game, yes....'great' game?...uh, uh. Great games usually result in wins. Very admirable that he played well in the Superbowl, and we all know he was the first to tell us all as soon as the game was over how much the doubters were all wrong, but his team lost and the guy was celebrating his "GREAT" game like he'd just hit the lottery. Team just lost the biggest game of their lives and he's jumpin' hoops! Guy just doesnt get it.....what else do you need to know?

A GREAT game was playing injured, catching 9 balls for 122 yards, drawing a safety away from Lewis for his TD, and getting them in position to win the game. Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired.

Agree with you there, the PATS were the luckiest team in history and certainly weren't a dynasty. Take away McNabb and Kasey getting tired and the league's disdain for Oakland and what you end up with is the second coming of the Bills.

I dont like the Pats, but 3 SB in 4 years?? Their incredible home game winning streak? come on.....

Gotta be true...I mean Bfred said..."Luckily for the Patriots, McNabb got tired."

I sure did. The Patriots were definitely fortunate that the Eagles quarterback wasn't able to make plays at the end of the game. Of course, one of the many things that made them a championship team is the fact that they were. If you're such a Panthers fan, though, shouldn't you be spelling Kasay's name right?

He's a freaking kicker dude and he cost us the Super Bowl because he got tired. Lastly, knowing the spelling of every player's name is pretty low on the priority list in my life. If you're such a Patriot's fan, stop sniffing TO's jock and go back to being a whiny tool.

 

[Franknbeans]

Parcells doesn't like injuries

 

[BlueOnion]

He did bad things during his contract renegotiation with the Eagles?  OK, but the reason he did those bad things is gone. 

BF -Do you have a link to support this statement or a legit argument supporting it?

This is the core difference between BF and the field. BF's whole argument is hitched to his belief that T.O. is happy. The field's counter-argument is, "We have seen T.O. say he is happy and then 6 months later change his mind in regards to what he wants and become unhappy again."

 

[bostonfred]

He did bad things during his contract renegotiation with the Eagles?  OK, but the reason he did those bad things is gone. 

BF -Do you have a link to support this statement or a legit argument supporting it?

Sure. In Philadelphia, he had a new agent in Rosenhaus who would not earn any money from his client unless they negotiated a new contract, whispering in his ear that he was underpaid. He was told in no uncertain terms not to hold out, was told they would not renegotiate, and so he told the Eagles that he was going to play, and play well, but make it too difficult on them to keep him. Almost all of the incidents that the Eagles raised in their arbitration case occurred AFTER Owens made this statement.

Another player in another sport once made the same kind of claims, except he even tanked the game while he was on the field. The team eventually traded him, and he ended up putting up huge numbers in the future. While he caused problems and was an irritant on a lot of teams, he is well respected for the impact he's had on the game.

And while we're talking about Gary Sheffield, let's talk about Barry Bonds. Owens is kind of like Bonds - a huge distraction in the clubhouse but an exceptional, rare talent. Except the thing is, Owens doesn't cheat.

 

[BassNBrew]

He did bad things during his contract renegotiation with the Eagles?  OK, but the reason he did those bad things is gone. 

BF -Do you have a link to support this statement or a legit argument supporting it?

Sure. In Philadelphia, he had a new agent in Rosenhaus who would not earn any money from his client unless they negotiated a new contract, whispering in his ear that he was underpaid. He was told in no uncertain terms not to hold out, was told they would not renegotiate, and so he told the Eagles that he was going to play, and play well, but make it too difficult on them to keep him. Almost all of the incidents that the Eagles raised in their arbitration case occurred AFTER Owens made this statement.

Another player in another sport once made the same kind of claims, except he even tanked the game while he was on the field. The team eventually traded him, and he ended up putting up huge numbers in the future. While he caused problems and was an irritant on a lot of teams, he is well respected for the impact he's had on the game.

And while we're talking about Gary Sheffield, let's talk about Barry Bonds. Owens is kind of like Bonds - a huge distraction in the clubhouse but an exceptional, rare talent. Except the thing is, Owens doesn't cheat.

Um...has Bonds been suspended for breaking the rules? TO has.