Can the Browns have "Bengals Success" in 2012? (1 Viewer)

[Shutout]

I know we have some Browns fans in here a lot as well as several living around Cincy.

What do you guys think about the Browns being able to replicate what the Bengals did last year, in terms of ff?

My case points:

-Both teams play in the same division with similar schedule so a comparison can be drawn.

-The Browns drafted Weeden and the Bengals have Dalton. Dalton had some solid success as a rookie in this division and was, similar to Weeden, not THE QB of the rookie crop, but was seen as a solid 3-4th QB of the class who had played multiple years in college.

-The Browns have a running game and defense, similar to the Bengals.

-The Browns now have Josh Gordon, a guy, like AJ Green. Not saying Gordon is Green but they both are very similar in size, weight, ran very similar 40-times, both have large hands and are described as intelligent football IQs.

Maybe I'm missing the boat but it looks like, although the offense style is different, that the Browns have rolled out the Bengals blueprint and found their own similar pieces.

So what do you guys think of the potential FF sucess of the Browns (and success in general..keeping it FF specific since its Shark Pool)?

 

[Timmay]

Maybe a poor man's 2011 Bengals team.

You assume the Browns have a running game with Richardson, as good as he can be, he is still unproven in the NFL. I do think Weeden can be a good NFL QB, but he still has a lot of questions marks, and hasnt even signed his contract yet to get him in camp.

As far as Gordon goes, Before he has done anything it is hard to compare a supplemental draftee to someone who was drafted #4 overall and expect him to produce like a top WR in the league.

 

[cheese]

The reasons the Bengals won IMO are very good QB play, having one of the best receivers in the game, getting sacks, and stability from Marvin Lewis.

So to make that comparision you have to think Weeden is already an above-average NFL starter, Gordon or Little is a 2012 pro-bowler, the DLine is all about to break out, and Pat Shurmur is going to prove all his doubters wrong. Outside of maybe the sacks, it all feels like a reach to me.

One other note about the "same division" stuff. The Bengals success came in spite of the division, not because of it. We went 0-4 in the Ravens/Steelers game and only won the 1st Browns game on a miracle by Bruce Gradkowski. So to follow that blueprint means they're going to have to dominate out of the division, which will be even harder now that it's the NFC east for 4 of the games.

ETA: I'm not really convinced the Bengals had a good running game. They ran a lot. Not very effectively and not really when they needed to in many cases. They also had plenty of fumbles and penalties in the running game.

 

[Menace]

Being that they are a young and inexperienced team, I expect them to upset a few teams this year and win a couple games that you wouldn't expect. However I still think they only win 6 games next year.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Cleveland has added some talent over the years and this year the top three picks should be starters from day-one.

The toughest part about turning a losing team around is getting that first break-thru game.

However, before even contemplating that we need to check out the rookies in camp and how they perform in preseason.

Last year camp reports of Dalton were glowing and he performed well in preseason.

Last year I wrote off the Bengals and didn't think Dalton would be able to perform as well as he did. The Bengals defense was better than many outside the AFCN assumed. Weeden 'could' perform better than many are assuming and the Browns defense finished in the top-five in giving up points and top-ten in giving up yardage.

The Bengals had a better offensive line than many thought another similarity with the current situation and assumption with the Browns offensive line.

The Bengals added a stud WR but it is too early to tell if Josh Gordon will be able to anything like the sort of impact that A.J. Green had with the Bengals. Gordon is the guy who needs to be taken under the microscope in camp but Green was a much more polished WR coming out. He played and had much more production. Gordon hasn't played for a year and he's got some baggage. I don't think its fair to compare the two. Gordon really has a lot of work to do just to catch up with where A.J. Green was at last year prior to Green's first training camp.

Add, last year the Bengals had a schedule that wasn't as taxing with two games inside the division against the Browns who had all sorts of issues last year and they swept both of those contests. The NFC games outside the division were against the NFCW, outside of SF one of the weaker divisions. This year the AFCN plays the NFCE, one of the toughest divisions in football. So the Browns do not have any soft touches within the division as the Bengals did last year, and the NFC games are also tougher. So the schedule doesn't mesh up with a young-talented team to break out.

I think the Browns will be improved but it may not show up in the W/L record.

 

[Art Vandalay]

Comparing Josh Gordon to Aj Green is a joke.

AJ Green just produced one of the best rookie wr campaigns we have seen.

If you watched any of the games or even highlights you can see those stats don't do him justice.

He is in the top 10 in terms off potential already to me.

AJ is a similar talent to Randy Moss

Josh Gordon is a similar talent to Jericho Cocherty

 

[MAC_32]

I do not see AJ Green, a stellar defensive line, and a good coaching staff on the Browns. There's also pressure from above to start winning and I don't think that was the case in Cincy. I don't think the Bengals were anything special last year anyway. They beat the teams they were supposed to beat and lost to the teams they were supposed to lose to. I'm not one to buy into the preseason SOS stuff, but the Browns schedule looks pretty brutal this year so they won't be able to load up on wins vs. the league's bottom feedered.

Basically, there are some parallels, but the Bengals of 2011 had advantages in key areas, and the Browns probably won't benefit from a favorable schedule. To eclipse 6 wins the o line and Richardson have to be as good as I think they will, Weeden must be better than I think he is, the special teams can't lose games like it did last year, the 4th quarter defense must improve by leaps and bounds, the weapons in the passing game must be a lot more effective, and the coaching staff must be 100x better. That's a lot to ask.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Anything is possible in today's NFL, but the Browns making the jump to playoff contention and / or significant fantasy relevance seems unlikely in 2012.

I don't really have any faith in the coaching staff or front office.

The offense was flat out awful last year in every way. Richardson helps, certainly, but one non-QB player can only do so much. Weeden has some promising qualities, but in 2012 he'll be a rookie throwing to one of the worst receiving groups in the NFL.

The defense is over-rated. They got gashed on the ground last year, and the pass defense, while being a strength, looked better in 2011 than it actually is because teams were able to get a lead and take the air out of the ball.

I think modest improvement overall, particularly late in the year if Weeden can grasp things more quickly than most, is reasonable. A major leap forward would be a big surprise IMO.

 

[Shutout]

Ok, since EVERYONE seemed to want to pile on about AJ, let's start over:

Go back and read my post. I clearly said, "not saying Gordon is Green but they are similar in..." Its not a direct comparison of players, merely a thought about what could be in fantasy and, let's remember, you don't have to be the same guy as Fitz or Welker to put up solid fantasy production (which is what I'm aiming at here).

I mean, is Pierre Garcon the "talent" that Julio Jones is? Of course not. But he put up more Fantasy points than Julio did last year and he did it with two of the worst QBs in the league as opposed to Julio having one of the best. Again, fantasy thoughts here guys...not "OOh! somebody said WHAT about AJ Green? Blasphemy!"

I guess this is a fruitless discussion because it seems like these days people just won't THINK. We didn't know how Dalton would fare last year. He looked Gabbert-like in a couple of the pre-season games and looked good in others. I think Cam Newton went 6/19 for 75 in his dress rehersal game last year. Didn't mean much. Did ANYONE know who Marques colston was before week 1 on his rookie season? I just don't get why "where I was drafted" and lemming-thought precludes from having a thought-out discussion.

 

[cheese]

It's a little bit confusing because the Bengals did not have a successful fantasy season, they had a successful NFL season. They won games and were mostly irrellevant for fantasy except for their 1 stud.

So, can Cleveland be largely irrellevant except for their 1 stud (TRich)? Yes, I think that's probable.

 

[Timmay]

It's a little bit confusing because the Bengals did not have a successful fantasy season, they had a successful NFL season. They won games and were mostly irrellevant for fantasy except for their 1 stud. So, can Cleveland be largely irrellevant except for their 1 stud (TRich)? Yes, I think that's probable.

I dont see AJ Green type fantasy numbers from Josh Gordon in year 1, nor do I see Andy Dalton like numbers from Weeden in year 1. Im sure TRich will be better fantasy wise than Benson, but about 30 other backs will be too.

 

[Shutout]

It's a little bit confusing because the Bengals did not have a successful fantasy season, they had a successful NFL season. They won games and were mostly irrellevant for fantasy except for their 1 stud.

So, can Cleveland be largely irrellevant except for their 1 stud (TRich)? Yes, I think that's probable.

You really don't think they were fantasy-successful, sans AJ? I get that in terms of "top talent", but I really thought this would be worth diving into because I always see so many posts where people are mining for any and every player that might be the slightest bit fantasy relevant. I thought CEDBEN and Dalton were good enough last year to be useful to people and in IDP they had a few guys I really think some of these players like Weeden, Gordon, Little, and of course Richardson were worth a discussion.

But, you know, that's usually how it goes when you think about it. We will spend all off-season talking about some guys and completely disregarding and glossing over others, only to have those guys show up.

Like a year or two ago, if someone had started a post about Bills players, 99% of the people would have said "I LOVE SPILLER" and "Fitzpatrick is a journeyman, Stevie Johnson and all the others are unproven nobodies not drafted high, FJAX is old"....All this sound familiar? Like almost exactly like what is being said about the Browns today? People get it in their head that since they haven't been fantasy-relevant, they can't be...until it happens. And that, of course, is too late to get these guys cheap.

I guess that's why it surprises me to see people just discount these guys so universally. I see real value here.

 

[Shutout]

It's a little bit confusing because the Bengals did not have a successful fantasy season, they had a successful NFL season. They won games and were mostly irrellevant for fantasy except for their 1 stud. So, can Cleveland be largely irrellevant except for their 1 stud (TRich)? Yes, I think that's probable.

I dont see AJ Green type fantasy numbers from Josh Gordon in year 1, nor do I see Andy Dalton like numbers from Weeden in year 1. Im sure TRich will be better fantasy wise than Benson, but about 30 other backs will be too.

Well, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is so. The minority can be correct.Did you also not see FJAX last year, or Stevie Johnson and Ryan Fitzpatrick a few years ago? Probably you didn't. And that's not to pick at you specifically. Just an example of how we tend to NOT SEE these things because we get caught up in the cycle. "Ahh! The Browns/Bills ahve been terribel forever. All they got is that rookie Running BAck Richardson/Spiller. The rest is crap!"Just some thoughts that if we had enough people really stop and give it a think, we might collectively dig out some good info. I mean, I've seen a lot of people downgrading Gordon and saying he was "just" a supp. pick. But, heck, Arian foster wasn't even that and how much would you give for him now??

 

[Sweet Love]

Ok, since EVERYONE seemed to want to pile on about AJ, let's start over:

Go back and read my post. I clearly said, "not saying Gordon is Green but they are similar in..." Its not a direct comparison of players, merely a thought about what could be in fantasy and, let's remember, you don't have to be the same guy as Fitz or Welker to put up solid fantasy production (which is what I'm aiming at here).

I mean, is Pierre Garcon the "talent" that Julio Jones is? Of course not. But he put up more Fantasy points than Julio did last year and he did it with two of the worst QBs in the league as opposed to Julio having one of the best. Again, fantasy thoughts here guys...not "OOh! somebody said WHAT about AJ Green? Blasphemy!"

I guess this is a fruitless discussion because it seems like these days people just won't THINK. We didn't know how Dalton would fare last year. He looked Gabbert-like in a couple of the pre-season games and looked good in others. I think Cam Newton went 6/19 for 75 in his dress rehersal game last year. Didn't mean much. Did ANYONE know who Marques colston was before week 1 on his rookie season? I just don't get why "where I was drafted" and lemming-thought precludes from having a thought-out discussion.

I see your point about the AJ thing (and that is fine), but people also commented on the coaching staff and line play. They also brought up the out of conference matchup this year is the NFC East, which will make it harder for the Browns to do what the Bengals did out of conference in 2011. Honestly, besides both teams having a rookie quarterback in the two years you are comparing and both playing in the same division, I don't see much of what they do have in common.

 

[Catbird]

Ok, since EVERYONE seemed to want to pile on about AJ, let's start over:

Go back and read my post. I clearly said, "not saying Gordon is Green but they are similar in..." Its not a direct comparison of players, merely a thought about what could be in fantasy and, let's remember, you don't have to be the same guy as Fitz or Welker to put up solid fantasy production (which is what I'm aiming at here).

I mean, is Pierre Garcon the "talent" that Julio Jones is? Of course not. But he put up more Fantasy points than Julio did last year and he did it with two of the worst QBs in the league as opposed to Julio having one of the best. Again, fantasy thoughts here guys...not "OOh! somebody said WHAT about AJ Green? Blasphemy!"

I guess this is a fruitless discussion because it seems like these days people just won't THINK. We didn't know how Dalton would fare last year. He looked Gabbert-like in a couple of the pre-season games and looked good in others. I think Cam Newton went 6/19 for 75 in his dress rehersal game last year. Didn't mean much. Did ANYONE know who Marques colston was before week 1 on his rookie season? I just don't get why "where I was drafted" and lemming-thought precludes from having a thought-out discussion.

The position that people don't think because they don't think like me is all too prevalent in the Pool. Guys are thinking and you, Shutout, are ignoring their thoughts when they disagree with yours. Most people don't think Gordon is in the same universe as Green for talent. The chance that he will have a season parallel to Green's in extremely unlikely - but ceratinly possible. Rookie WRs rarely put up anything like that season, whether an experienced Garcon did or not. Dalton out-performed any typical rookie QB performance for a guy coming out with his pedigree and expectations. Weeden could do the same or better, but most seem to THINK that unlikely. Many have said they do not THINK the coaching and decisions in Cleveland are at the level they are in CIN. You may disagree, but that doesn't mean people who do aren't thinking. It seems to me they are thinking very clearly on this.

I see the hopes of the Browns this year being founded on a new ground-oriented attack that does have great potential, but that is not at all the recipe followed by the Bengals, nor are there much in the way of real parallels besides a rookie QB and WR likely to play quite a bit. I think that your attempt to paint these two efforts as parallel is mis-casting players into roles that are not who they are or likely will be. I hope the Browns are improved and that Richardson and a solid OL for rushing make them more competitive, but I don't think any success is likely to look much like what the Bengals did last year.

(Edit to delete inadverant repetition.)

 

[Sabertooth]

They can, yes and so the discussion has to at least be on the table. Now, is it going to be a 1 to 1 matchup, no. I think Weeden can muster a Dalton like season though. I also think Richardson can certainly attain a Benson-esque level of success even in his rookie season (that's his healthy floor I'd think or darn near to it). They don't have any talent approaching AJ Green though and that could be the sticking point. Green is a Top 5 talent in the NFL at WR. Larry, Calvin, ....and Green at least enters the conversation at that point. Neither Josh Gordon or Greg Little crack the Top 20 or even Top 40 perhaps. Neither would start in Green Bay or New England for instance.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Or Dallas, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Philly, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Arizona, etc.

The Browns WRs are in the discussion for worst in the NFL. I just really don't see a single reason to get excited at all about the passing game in Cleveland in 2012. Rookie QB, inexperienced / bad WRs, team will be running WAY more in 2012 -- seriously, what's to like?

 

[MAC_32]

It's a little bit confusing because the Bengals did not have a successful fantasy season, they had a successful NFL season. They won games and were mostly irrellevant for fantasy except for their 1 stud. So, can Cleveland be largely irrellevant except for their 1 stud (TRich)? Yes, I think that's probable.

You really don't think they were fantasy-successful, sans AJ?

Dalton and Gresham were adequate bye week/injury filler, as was Benson but he was drafted to be most owners' #2's. I think he under whelmed in that regard. I used their defense more than anything to some pretty good success irrc.

 

[Sweet Love]

They can, yes and so the discussion has to at least be on the table. Now, is it going to be a 1 to 1 matchup, no. I think Weeden can muster a Dalton like season though. I also think Richardson can certainly attain a Benson-esque level of success even in his rookie season (that's his healthy floor I'd think or darn near to it). They don't have any talent approaching AJ Green though and that could be the sticking point. Green is a Top 5 talent in the NFL at WR. Larry, Calvin, ....and Green at least enters the conversation at that point. Neither Josh Gordon or Greg Little crack the Top 20 or even Top 40 perhaps. Neither would start in Green Bay or New England for instance.

You think Weeden can have the 3rd best rookie season for a QB since Peyton was drafted (behind Peyton and Cam)? That is what it will take for him to have a similar season..sure, maybe he has an 18 TD 14 INT season (at best), but that is still a big difference from Dalton's numbers. I know it basically happened twice last year, but Matt Ryan had the best since Manning previously, and that was a 16TD/11INT season which is a a good deal less than Dalton's 20TD/13 INT season...and even then, we are talking about a top 3-4 pick in the draft in Ryan (and Manning and Cam for that matter).

 

[Coeur de Lion]

They can, yes and so the discussion has to at least be on the table. Now, is it going to be a 1 to 1 matchup, no. I think Weeden can muster a Dalton like season though. I also think Richardson can certainly attain a Benson-esque level of success even in his rookie season (that's his

healthy floor I'd think or darn near to it). They don't have any talent approaching AJ Green though and that could be the sticking point. Green is a Top 5 talent in the NFL at WR. Larry, Calvin, ....and Green at least enters the conversation at that point. Neither Josh Gordon or Greg Little crack the Top 20 or even Top 40 perhaps. Neither would start in Green Bay or New England for instance.

You think Weeden can have the 3rd best rookie season for a QB since Peyton was drafted (behind Peyton and Cam)? That is what it will take for him to have a similar season..sure, maybe he has an 18 TD 14 INT season (at best), but that is still a big difference from Dalton's numbers. I know it basically happened twice last year, butMatt Ryan had the best since Manning previously, and that was a 16TD/11INT season which is a a good deal less than Dalton's 20TD/13 INT season...and even then, we are talking about a top 3-4 pick in the draft in Ryan (and Manning and Cam for that matter).

Not to mention AJ, Simpson, Gresham >>>> Browns guys.

 

[bengalbuck]

I know we have some Browns fans in here a lot as well as several living around Cincy.What do you guys think about the Browns being able to replicate what the Bengals did last year, in terms of ff?My case points:-Both teams play in the same division with similar schedule so a comparison can be drawn.-The Browns drafted Weeden and the Bengals have Dalton. Dalton had some solid success as a rookie in this division and was, similar to Weeden, not THE QB of the rookie crop, but was seen as a solid 3-4th QB of the class who had played multiple years in college.-The Browns have a running game and defense, similar to the Bengals.-The Browns now have Josh Gordon, a guy, like AJ Green. Not saying Gordon is Green but they both are very similar in size, weight, ran very similar 40-times, both have large hands and are described as intelligent football IQs.Maybe I'm missing the boat but it looks like, although the offense style is different, that the Browns have rolled out the Bengals blueprint and found their own similar pieces.So what do you guys think of the potential FF sucess of the Browns (and success in general..keeping it FF specific since its Shark Pool)?

I think there are a few differences:1. Bengals D Line was very good and deep last season. Geno Atkins made the Pro Bowl at DT. Peko was very good next to him. There was also a 5 man rotation at DE with Carlos Dunlap, Michael Johnson, Jon Fanene (who also played a little DT), Robert Geathers and Frostee Rucker (now on the Browns). It was this unit as much as any other that carried the Bengals last season. Especially with Phil Taylor's injury, I don't think the Browns can match that. I also think that the Browns' offensive ineptitude last season led to some inflated defensive statistics (teams were content to play safe and sit on the lead). Plus (and more on this in a second), last season's weak schedule that included games against Gabbert, Painter, T. Jackson, Kolb, etc. is replaced with matchups against both Mannings, Romo, Vick, Rivers, etc. Unless the Browns D takes a big step forward, I think they may be exposed a little bit against better competition.2. The AFC North had a much softer schedule last year. We played the AFC South which had 2 of the worst teams in the league (Colts and Jags) and the NFC West which also had 3 below average teams (Rams, Seahawks, Cardinals). Plus, in the division, the Bengals got a couple pretty easy games against the Browns. Those are 7 games against losing teams in which the Bengals went 7-0. This year, the AFC South is replaced with the AFC West which, in my opinion, doesn't have a powerhouse but does have 4 very solid teams. Hard to see any easy wins there like the Jags/Colts last year. I don't see the Browns going 3-1 against the AFC divisional opponents like the Bengals did last year. Even worse, the NFC division is the East. Instead of the easy games against last year's NFC West, the Browns will have to play the Giants, Cowboys, Eagles and Redskins. Hard to see the Browns going 3-1 vs. the NFC like the Bengals in 2011. And again, the Browns AFC North schedule doesn't have any easy games at all with 2 apiece against the Bengals, Steelers, and Ravens.In short, I do think the Browns could be much improved, especially on offense. I do think that adding one elite talent (Green/Richardson) that a defense has to focus on stopping cam make a huge difference and allows everyone else on the offense to look better than they are. However, the absolutely brutal schedule is probably going to make a winning season like the 2011 Bengals had nearly impossible. Kind of OT, but I worry the Bengals also could have a better team but worse record due to this season's slate of opponents. There are just so many elite and/or very good QBs on the schedule. Eli, Peyton, Vick, Rivers, Romo, Roth x2, Flacco x2, RG3, etc. Dalton was able to outduel Painter, Gabbert, Colt McCoy, T-Jack, Skelton, etc. last year but if the Bengals are going to make the playoffs, he's going to have to beat some of the league's better QBs to make it happen.

 

[Fensalk]

Troy Aikman entered the NFL in 1989. He had Michael Irvin to throw to and Herschel Walker in the backfield. They went 1-15. Aikman threw 9 TDs and 18 INTs. This could happen, too.

 

[Timmay]

It's a little bit confusing because the Bengals did not have a successful fantasy season, they had a successful NFL season. They won games and were mostly irrellevant for fantasy except for their 1 stud. So, can Cleveland be largely irrellevant except for their 1 stud (TRich)? Yes, I think that's probable.

I dont see AJ Green type fantasy numbers from Josh Gordon in year 1, nor do I see Andy Dalton like numbers from Weeden in year 1. Im sure TRich will be better fantasy wise than Benson, but about 30 other backs will be too.

Well, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is so. The minority can be correct.Did you also not see FJAX last year, or Stevie Johnson and Ryan Fitzpatrick a few years ago? Probably you didn't. And that's not to pick at you specifically. Just an example of how we tend to NOT SEE these things because we get caught up in the cycle. "Ahh! The Browns/Bills ahve been terribel forever. All they got is that rookie Running BAck Richardson/Spiller. The rest is crap!"Just some thoughts that if we had enough people really stop and give it a think, we might collectively dig out some good info. I mean, I've seen a lot of people downgrading Gordon and saying he was "just" a supp. pick. But, heck, Arian foster wasn't even that and how much would you give for him now??

You sound like a sour Browns fan, i was just giving my opinion on the situation. Personally i don't see Weeden and Gordon making a huge impact fantasy wise on the Browns team this year. Fantasy wise, the Bengals players aside from Green, werent very impressive. Dalton was usually a bye week filler, Benson was supposed to put up RB2 numbers, he ended more like a RB3. Gresham was better than the previous year, but still was bye week filler material. No other WR on the team was worthy of a roster spot. Jerome Simpson was dropped and picked up more last year in my league than anyone i've seen, and that is coming from a homer league where everyone is from around Cincy.

 

[Sabertooth]

They can, yes and so the discussion has to at least be on the table. Now, is it going to be a 1 to 1 matchup, no. I think Weeden can muster a Dalton like season though. I also think Richardson can certainly attain a Benson-esque level of success even in his rookie season (that's his healthy floor I'd think or darn near to it). They don't have any talent approaching AJ Green though and that could be the sticking point. Green is a Top 5 talent in the NFL at WR. Larry, Calvin, ....and Green at least enters the conversation at that point. Neither Josh Gordon or Greg Little crack the Top 20 or even Top 40 perhaps. Neither would start in Green Bay or New England for instance.

You think Weeden can have the 3rd best rookie season for a QB since Peyton was drafted (behind Peyton and Cam)? That is what it will take for him to have a similar season..sure, maybe he has an 18 TD 14 INT season (at best), but that is still a big difference from Dalton's numbers. I know it basically happened twice last year, but Matt Ryan had the best since Manning previously, and that was a 16TD/11INT season which is a a good deal less than Dalton's 20TD/13 INT season...and even then, we are talking about a top 3-4 pick in the draft in Ryan (and Manning and Cam for that matter).

I think he CAN. I'm not saying he will. None of us really knows if the spike last year was an anomaly or not. If it wasn't, then I think Dalton's season is reachable. If numbers regress to the mean, then I doubt he can.

 

[Matt Bitonti]

i like the comparison from an offensive line perspective. Cinci had a great line that kept Dalton upright and really helped him as a rookie. The Browns line could do the same for Weeden. Yes the Browns WR aren't great but this could be a run first keep it close type of team that wins more than people realize. I doubt that they will be a fantasy points machine, except for TR.

 

[Shutout]

The position that people don't think because they don't think like me is all too prevalent in the Pool. Guys are thinking and you, Shutout, are ignoring their thoughts when they disagree with yours. Most people don't think Gordon is in the same universe as Green for talent. The chance that he will have a season parallel to Green's in extremely unlikely - but ceratinly possible. Rookie WRs rarely put up anything like that season, whether an experienced Garcon did or not. Dalton out-performed any typical rookie QB performance for a guy coming out with his pedigree and expectations. Weeden could do the same or better, but most seem to THINK that unlikely. Many have said they do not THINK the coaching and decisions in Cleveland are at the level they are in CIN. You may disagree, but that doesn't mean people who do aren't thinking. It seems to me they are thinking very clearly on this.

I see the hopes of the Browns this year being founded on a new ground-oriented attack that does have great potential, but that is not at all the recipe followed by the Bengals, nor are there much in the way of real parallels besides a rookie QB and WR likely to play quite a bit. I think that your attempt to paint these two efforts as parallel is mis-casting players into roles that are not who they are or likely will be. I hope the Browns are improved and that Richardson and a solid OL for rushing make them more competitive, but I don't think any success is likely to look much like what the Bengals did last year.

(Edit to delete inadverant repetition.)

That's not the case at all. The idea is to have a discussion about FANTASY impact. But instead, the initial responces were all about real life talent. Not worth writing paragraphs about but the gist of it is there are various levels of talent that produce (like the example of a guy like Garcon outproducing Julio or any number of more known "talents", despite much worse situations.) it happens..and it happened in a very similar situation in Buffalo jsut a few seasons ago. But we tend to overlook those things. People get hung up on the talent of this player or go on and on about "its not comparable because the schedule is different this year, etc". But no one DISCUSSES it..thinks it out. Not one person has mentioned anything like the differences between playing a division with a top run defense vs. not...or matching up against a division full of top secondary players vs. not. Maybe its just too much to ask..too much to delve into and the easy answer is to read a post and slap a blanket "this isn't as talented or as good as that so it'll never work" statement on it. That's fine. We sure can't have a true discussion if no one's participating. And that's fine too. But I can almost gurantee you that some players, somewhere, are going to come out of nowhere this year and then all that "can't happen" talk will turn into "whos the next guy" or "how did it happen". That's all fine too. I just prefer to find the Stevie Johnsons and Arian fosters BEFORE the majority does.

 

[MAC_32]

I just prefer to find the Stevie Johnsons and Arian fosters BEFORE the majority does.

We all do, just don't think they're on the Browns, at least in 2012 anyway. If there is a 2012 breakout from someone unexpected on the Browns it's Jordan Cameron, but I think it's more likely to be 2013, just like Josh Gordon. There's just too much young on this team to expect much in fantasy this year outside of Richardson and maybe Little.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I know we have some Browns fans in here a lot as well as several living around Cincy.What do you guys think about the Browns being able to replicate what the Bengals did last year, in terms of ff?My case points:-Both teams play in the same division with similar schedule so a comparison can be drawn.-The Browns drafted Weeden and the Bengals have Dalton. Dalton had some solid success as a rookie in this division and was, similar to Weeden, not THE QB of the rookie crop, but was seen as a solid 3-4th QB of the class who had played multiple years in college.-The Browns have a running game and defense, similar to the Bengals.-The Browns now have Josh Gordon, a guy, like AJ Green. Not saying Gordon is Green but they both are very similar in size, weight, ran very similar 40-times, both have large hands and are described as intelligent football IQs.

wut?

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

The combination of Pat Shurmur and Brad Childress doesn't inspire much confidence that they can even make effective use of the talent they have, notwithstanding all the other deficiencies discussed in this thread.