Can you explain why you don't have faith? (1 Viewer)

[joffer]

Thanks Tim. This is interesting to talk about I think. Thanks for folks being cool about it and having a discussion.

Here's something I'd ask to help me better understand where people are coming from. For folks that don't identify with a particular faith or religion, do you believe there is something beyond our life here? Do you feel that there is a "higher power" or are there "spiritual" things that exist beyond what we see here?

J

higher power? no

afterlife? no

something that exists beyond what we see here? does dark energy count?

Sure.

J

then yes, I think there are things that we currently don't understand with any of our senses. something like dark energy at least be inferred by indirect evidence.

 

[matuski]

I also don't believe in ghosts, spirits, magic..........

Dude. You're killing me.

J

Well played Joe.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I also don't believe in ghosts, spirits, magic..........

Dude. You're killing me.

J

why?

GHOSTGUY

 

[lod01]

I like to use logic instead of faith.

The faith I do have in things is more like "hope".

People follow a book written a longggggggggggg time ago, re-written many times and interpreted by different people along the way. Think about that for a minute. At work I told someone a pretty simple story about how I might buy a rental property this month. A couple days later someone else approached and congratulated me on buying a new home for the family and asked when I was moving in. Now, after me telling this to one person and them telling maybe a couple other, look how much that story changed. Now think about how much the initial story that created the bible has changed over time.

Also, look how many different religions there are. Who is right? Simple answer, nobody.

I also don't believe in ghosts, spirits, magic....................i believe that everything has a rational explanation. If it doesnt, it means we just havent figured it out yet, just like a billion things over time that people didnt understand that were eventually figured out.

Now if you wanna ask me how everything started at the beginning of time, dude, who knows. DOn't care at all. Big bang, God, devil, whatever.

Exactly. I'll use the ridiculousness of Noah. The dude made a little boat to hold his farm animals in a once in a lifetime flood. It becomes a colossal vessel that holds a pair of every animal on earth....but not ANY pair of dinosaur. Lions, gators, venomous snakes are buddies with noah and don't kill him and his family or the other animals. Ok maybe they killed the dinosaurs and ate them.

Oh and who the hell brings aboard 2 mosquitoes and 2 cockroaches?

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Thanks Tim. This is interesting to talk about I think. Thanks for folks being cool about it and having a discussion.

Here's something I'd ask to help me better understand where people are coming from. For folks that don't identify with a particular faith or religion, do you believe there is something beyond our life here? Do you feel that there is a "higher power" or are there "spiritual" things that exist beyond what we see here?

J

However I'll say that there is some higher power as logically there has to be. This all didn't just magically create itself. That's about as ridiculous as you can get.

This is the argument I'm talking about when I say that God solves no cosmological problem. To say that the universe must have a creator is to simply ignore the question of what created the creator (or in apologists' terms, to insist that the problem assume that the creator needn't be created).

 

[Zow]

I studied for multiple semesters with the Benedictine monks while in college. Particularly, I spent three months studying under an old testament theologian who did the translation for the new St. John's Bible. He taught me about biblical sources, about how a particular translation could change an entire passage's meaning, etc. I loved learning this stuff and began to independently study Islam, Taoism, Buddhism, and LDS. Religion became purely academic for me.

I grew up very catholic, and was becoming increasingly frustrated with the "lack of reward" I was getting by being a good catholic. I was getting somewhat stressed out because I was literally blue balling myself following the goofy rules and pissed that God didn't reward me with some blonde haired knockout virgin. Finally one day I just said screw it, began dating a girl I was into but wasn't "that" into, had sex, and realized life is way more ####### fun with some dyonesian infusion.

All this same time I was studying philosophy and political theory, and found myself looking more logically at issues (not through the religious lens) and realizing that a lot of religious dogmas were pretty ####### stupid and borderline bigoted. I began to look at what I considered "normal" behavior - like evangelism, going to church all the time, etc. - and realize it was pretty goofy.

For the above combination of reasons, all happening through the span of college, caused me to go into college a devout, god-fearing catholic and walk out an atheist.

 

[Zow]

I also don't believe in ghosts, spirits, magic..........

Dude. You're killing me.

J

 

[lod01]

Thanks Tim. This is interesting to talk about I think. Thanks for folks being cool about it and having a discussion.

Here's something I'd ask to help me better understand where people are coming from. For folks that don't identify with a particular faith or religion, do you believe there is something beyond our life here? Do you feel that there is a "higher power" or are there "spiritual" things that exist beyond what we see here?

J

However I'll say that there is some higher power as logically there has to be. This all didn't just magically create itself. That's about as ridiculous as you can get.

This is the argument I'm talking about when I say that God solves no cosmological problem. To say that the universe must have a creator is to simply ignore the question of what created the creator (or in apologists' terms, to insist that the problem assume that the creator needn't be created).

That is what is impossible for us to understand. THAT (above) is not logical. It goes with the universe itself. It can't be finite but it can't be infinite either.

 

[NCCommish]

Thanks Tim. This is interesting to talk about I think. Thanks for folks being cool about it and having a discussion.

Here's something I'd ask to help me better understand where people are coming from. For folks that don't identify with a particular faith or religion, do you believe there is something beyond our life here? Do you feel that there is a "higher power" or are there "spiritual" things that exist beyond what we see here?

J

However I'll say that there is some higher power as logically there has to be. This all didn't just magically create itself. That's about as ridiculous as you can get.

This is the argument I'm talking about when I say that God solves no cosmological problem. To say that the universe must have a creator is to simply ignore the question of what created the creator (or in apologists' terms, to insist that the problem assume that the creator needn't be created).

That is what is impossible for us to understand. THAT (above) is not logical. It goes with the universe itself. It can't be finite but it can't be infinite either.

Introducing a supernatural being adds an incredible amount of complexity to the universe. It doesn't make it less complicated.

 

[bosoxs45]

George Carlins bit sums up my thoughts in a nut shell.

 

[AAABatteries]

Someone may have said this already but I never understood why most atheists always say they don't believe in God because the Bible (or insert religious text) is ridiculous and impossible to be real. Why does god or God have to be one of those gods? Seems to me that there's at least a small chance that some supreme being exists but doesn't give two craps about any of us or what we do or don't do.

ETA - I shouldn't say most atheists. Rather a good portion of vocal atheists that I've personally heard have used this argument

 

[lakerstan]

I have been trying to construct a "depth of faith" model - let's call it "Lakerstan's 12 depths of faith" - and I suspect people have different depths of faith. Here's an example:

1. There is, there is not, or there may/may not be a Supreme Being. If you believe there is, then proceed to step 2. If not, or you are unsure, then you are an atheist or agnostic.

2. The Supreme Being created the universe (agree and continue, or stop here)

3. The Supreme Being created life in that universe (agree and continue, or stop here)

4. The Supreme Being created life on Earth (agree and continue, or stop)

5. The Supreme Being maintains an active interest in that life on earth (agree and continue, or stop)

6. The Supreme Being maintains an active interest only in human life on earth (agree and continue, or stop)

7. The Supreme Being gave humans souls and granted them free will (agree and continue, or stop)

8. The Supreme Being will allow human souls to reside in it's plane of existence (Heaven) for all eternity, if they utilize their free will in a way that the Supreme Being feels is correct, and worship it as the one true Supreme Being (agree and continue, or stop)

9. The Supreme Being is perfect and will not allow human souls to reside in Heaven if they disagree. Instead, their souls will be condemned to eternal torture by a less than Supreme Being named Satan. (agree and continue, or stop)

10. The Supreme Being has communicated the rules to the humans via dreams, burning bushes and possibly sending his son. These rules have been written by the humans as the word of this Supreme being. (agree and continue, or stop)

11. The humans have correctly interpreted these dreams, bushes and messages from his son (or other profits), and have not altered the rules in any way. They are the rules as communicated by the Supreme Being. (agree and continue, or stop)

12. The Supreme Being cares if you eat meat on Fridays.

It could use a little polishing, but you get the idea...

 

[Brony]

I liked George Michael's later albums much better. That's the best I can explain it.

 

[hxperson]

I think for me I started drifting from Christianity because I hated all of the rules.

But the thing that really made me start doubting the truth behind the religion was the notion that God has given everyone free will, yet his will is also always done, and he also knows everything that will happen. I just can't reconcile these "facts".

If my boss decided to empower me by saying "hey, you can do anything you want to do on this project", but I later find out that 100% of what my boss wanted to do was what was actually done and that he had planned the result several years in advance, I would consider my boss a liar. But God doesn't lie, because he's without sin.

I have a lot of other reasons why I don't believe as well, but that is the one that got it going.

 

[joffer]

Someone may have said this already but I never understood why most atheists always say they don't believe in God because the Bible (or insert religious text) is ridiculous and impossible to be real. Why does god or God have to be one of those gods? Seems to me that there's at least a small chance that some supreme being exists but doesn't give two craps about any of us or what we do or don't do.

ETA - I shouldn't say most atheists. Rather a good portion of vocal atheists that I've personally heard have used this argument

why didn't you ask one of the numerous atheists that you apparently heard this from that question? I haven't come across one myself.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

Thanks Tim. This is interesting to talk about I think. Thanks for folks being cool about it and having a discussion.

Here's something I'd ask to help me better understand where people are coming from. For folks that don't identify with a particular faith or religion, do you believe there is something beyond our life here? Do you feel that there is a "higher power" or are there "spiritual" things that exist beyond what we see here?

J

I think that it is most probable that their is a higher power of some sort out there somewhere. To me it is the most logical answer. Does it have anything to do with any of the major religions of today? I doubt it.

I don't think faith in the christian religion ever happened for me because like lod01 said the stories told to me as a kid seemed kind of ridiculous and a lot like the stories I was told at bedtime like Pinocchio.

 

[timschochet]

Thanks Tim. This is interesting to talk about I think. Thanks for folks being cool about it and having a discussion.

Here's something I'd ask to help me better understand where people are coming from. For folks that don't identify with a particular faith or religion, do you believe there is something beyond our life here? Do you feel that there is a "higher power" or are there "spiritual" things that exist beyond what we see here?

J

Without a doubt, there is more to reality than we can comprehend. But it seems like a reach to put a spiritual or conscious power behind the multiverse.

This represents my thinking as well. I love that Shakespeare line, "There are more things in Heaven and in Earth..." as to what those things are, I can't say. I also buy in to Spinoza's theory of God as the universe itself- Einstein liked that idea.

 

[Bucky86]

I never grew up religious, but I had two encounters with my neighbors family when I was a little kid that probably scared me from any religion. First time was when I found a caterpillar in their garden and excitedly screamed, "Oh my GOD! A caterpillar!" (I was probably 5 years old) My friends mom was a ##### and she yelled at me to not use the lords name that way.

Second time....same family. My friend had a religious cartoon book. We were looking at it and it basically said if you don't believe in god, you're going to hell. At 5 this freaked me out big time since I didn't grow up believing.

Thats my story.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think for me I started drifting from Christianity because I hated all of the rules.

But the thing that really made me start doubting the truth behind the religion was the notion that God has given everyone free will, yet his will is also always done, and he also knows everything that will happen. I just can't reconcile these "facts".

If my boss decided to empower me by saying "hey, you can do anything you want to do on this project", but I later find out that 100% of what my boss wanted to do was what was actually done and that he had planned the result several years in advance, I would consider my boss a liar. But God doesn't lie, because he's without sin.

I have a lot of other reasons why I don't believe as well, but that is the one that got it going.

Free Will is a tough one. Morgan Freeman and Jim Carey get theological in Bruce Almighty...

J

 

[Gr00vus]

Just to echo what Skribbles, Scooby and a few other have said, I'm too firmly rooted in the rational/logical to be able to practice theological faith. That sort of faith just doesn't make sense to me, and I can't (don't want/need to) get past that.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

While I think arguments for God's existence are irrational, I'm not going to say that I'm "rooted to reason" or anything like that. I'm sure I uncritically accept a lot of arguments that aren't reasonable. They're just different arguments that hit my own blind spots.

 

[D_House]

Religion has nver has been a part of my life and never felt that there is anything missing that would motivate me to explore it further.

Really only ever comes into play on Christmas. I have celebrated the secular, commercial version of Christmas (tree, ornaments, lights, presents, etc.) since I was a kid (parents nominally Catholic, they took me to Church a handful of times, always for either a wedding or a wake). During Christmas though I do celebrate with the knowledge that the holiday has a deeper meaning to several millions of people that I appreciate and think about (somewhat unavoidable that time of year). Tbh outside of that my biggest exposure to religion (Christianity really) is here. Day to day it has no impact.

 

[matuski]

Religion has nver has been a part of my life and never felt that there is anything missing that would motivate me to explore it further.

Really only ever comes into play on Christmas. I have celebrated the secular, commercial version of Christmas (tree, ornaments, lights, presents, etc.) since I was a kid (parents nominally Catholic, they took me to Church a handful of times, always for either a wedding or a wake). During Christmas though I do celebrate with the knowledge that the holiday has a deeper meaning to several millions of people that I appreciate and think about (somewhat unavoidable that time of year). Tbh outside of that my biggest exposure to religion (Christianity really) is here. Day to day it has no impact.

I would have to move for this to be true for me. Unfortunately.

 

[Eminence]

In defense of the Bible, I think every person with a brain in their head knows that it's been manipulated and twisted over the years. If anything, it is an extension of Judaism, the God that Jesus speaks of (his father) is the same God that created the world in Genesis.

So it irks me when people cite the New Testament as a reason "not" to believe in God.

Now, if you don't want to believe ANY of the stories, that's fine. But suppose it all is true, don't you think the facts would have been fudged a little bit EITHER WAY?

-

1.) Early in human history, God visited people and set the ground rules.

2.) Early in human history, somebody made up a bunch of stories about a God.

There's scientifically no way to prove whether option 1 or option 2 is the truth. Because of that, I expect that when it's all said and done (in the next 50 years or so when religion really begins to evaporate) we're going to see about 50% of the population who believes in God and 50% who doesn't.

I personally believe there is a good force and bad force in this world. There's opposites in everything else, in my mind the supernatural works the same.

Em

 

[butcher boy]

In defense of the Bible, I think every person with a brain in their head knows that it's been manipulated and twisted over the years. If anything, it is an extension of Judaism, the God that Jesus speaks of (his father) is the same God that created the world in Genesis.

So it irks me when people cite the New Testament as a reason "not" to believe in God.

Now, if you don't want to believe ANY of the stories, that's fine. But suppose it all is true, don't you think the facts would have been fudged a little bit EITHER WAY?

-

1.) Early in human history, God visited people and set the ground rules.

2.) Early in human history, somebody made up a bunch of stories about a God.

There's scientifically no way to prove whether option 1 or option 2 is the truth. Because of that, I expect that when it's all said and done (in the next 50 years or so when religion really begins to evaporate) we're going to see about 50% of the population who believes in God and 50% who doesn't.

I personally believe there is a good force and bad force in this world. There's opposites in everything else, in my mind the supernatural works the same.

Em

Occam's Razor suggests number 2 here.

 

[Eminence]

In defense of the Bible, I think every person with a brain in their head knows that it's been manipulated and twisted over the years. If anything, it is an extension of Judaism, the God that Jesus speaks of (his father) is the same God that created the world in Genesis.

So it irks me when people cite the New Testament as a reason "not" to believe in God.

Now, if you don't want to believe ANY of the stories, that's fine. But suppose it all is true, don't you think the facts would have been fudged a little bit EITHER WAY?

-

1.) Early in human history, God visited people and set the ground rules.

2.) Early in human history, somebody made up a bunch of stories about a God.

There's scientifically no way to prove whether option 1 or option 2 is the truth. Because of that, I expect that when it's all said and done (in the next 50 years or so when religion really begins to evaporate) we're going to see about 50% of the population who believes in God and 50% who doesn't.

I personally believe there is a good force and bad force in this world. There's opposites in everything else, in my mind the supernatural works the same.

Em

Occam's Razor suggests number 2 here.

Ok, so let's assume that people fabricated a bunch of stories that were wrong. Does that necessarily dismiss the idea that something did create the Universe and humans?

 

[joffer]

2000 years ago is nowhere near "early in human history"

 

[Eminence]

2000 years ago is nowhere near "early in human history"

I'm going by biblical canon, my amigo.

 

[joffer]

2000 years ago is nowhere near "early in human history"

I'm going by biblical canon, my amigo.

which we know is wrong on that front, comrade

 

[Slapdash]

J,

Why are you allowing Eminence to continue to post here?

 

[Eminence]

I guess my gripe here is that using the holes in Christianity to completely dismiss the idea that's there's not any type of God if foolish. Humans took a stab at it a few thousand years ago and got it wrong. Science says there was a big bang.

To me, that does nothing to discredit a higher being or any type of spirituality from actually existing.

 

[sublimeone]

I studied for multiple semesters with the Benedictine monks while in college. Particularly, I spent three months studying under an old testament theologian who did the translation for the new St. John's Bible. He taught me about biblical sources, about how a particular translation could change an entire passage's meaning, etc. I loved learning this stuff and began to independently study Islam, Taoism, Buddhism, and LDS. Religion became purely academic for me.

I grew up very catholic, and was becoming increasingly frustrated with the "lack of reward" I was getting by being a good catholic. I was getting somewhat stressed out because I was literally blue balling myself following the goofy rules and pissed that God didn't reward me with some blonde haired knockout virgin. Finally one day I just said screw it, began dating a girl I was into but wasn't "that" into, had sex, and realized life is way more ####### fun with some dyonesian infusion.

All this same time I was studying philosophy and political theory, and found myself looking more logically at issues (not through the religious lens) and realizing that a lot of religious dogmas were pretty ####### stupid and borderline bigoted. I began to look at what I considered "normal" behavior - like evangelism, going to church all the time, etc. - and realize it was pretty goofy.

For the above combination of reasons, all happening through the span of college, caused me to go into college a devout, god-fearing catholic and walk out an atheist.

It seems like your issue, and the issue many atheists have is more with religion than it is with a belief in a higher power.

I can understand being disenfranchised with the church, but I don't understand how you make the jump to atheism. Isn't there a part of you that looks at the incredibly complex systems that govern everything and question the likelihood that it's all just one giant accident?

 

[AAABatteries]

Someone may have said this already but I never understood why most atheists always say they don't believe in God because the Bible (or insert religious text) is ridiculous and impossible to be real. Why does god or God have to be one of those gods? Seems to me that there's at least a small chance that some supreme being exists but doesn't give two craps about any of us or what we do or don't do.

ETA - I shouldn't say most atheists. Rather a good portion of vocal atheists that I've personally heard have used this argument

why didn't you ask one of the numerous atheists that you apparently heard this from that question? I haven't come across one myself.

Mainly because I've never really cared enough to ask - for 99.9999% of the population I couldn't care less what they believe. I do find it odd and it seems like a few folks are somewhat making this argument in here but maybe I'm wrong on what they mean. The other reason is that I detest political and religious debates - they are almost always worthless with a bunch of name calling unless Joe is involved.

 

[joffer]

I guess my gripe here is that using the holes in Christianity to completely dismiss the idea that's there's not any type of God if foolish. Humans took a stab at it a few thousand years ago and got it wrong. Science says there was a big bang.

To me, that does nothing to discredit a higher being or any type of spirituality from actually existing.

while the holes in Christianity may have initially driven some towards atheism, I don't know anyone that is an atheist solely because of those holes. they exist in every religion. if you want the reasons why many here are atheists, start at post #1

 

[Eminence]

J,

Why are you allowing Eminence to continue to post here?

Listen man, I assure you that you do not want to go down this path.

There's a line drawn on the ground, pick what side you want to be on. There's an "ignore" option on these boards for a reason. If you do not wish to read my posts, that is the easiest way to solve that problem. I have apologized for conduct that may have upset posters on here and I understand that some people refuse to let things go.

But we're clearing the way for bigger things here and this constant trolling of my character is something that will not be accepted. We are going to use my popularity in a way that positively effects FBG.

Let's not derail this topic any further though, I am sorry you do not approve of my posts. But as stated above, there's an easy fix for that.

Em

 

[joffer]

Someone may have said this already but I never understood why most atheists always say they don't believe in God because the Bible (or insert religious text) is ridiculous and impossible to be real. Why does god or God have to be one of those gods? Seems to me that there's at least a small chance that some supreme being exists but doesn't give two craps about any of us or what we do or don't do.

ETA - I shouldn't say most atheists. Rather a good portion of vocal atheists that I've personally heard have used this argument

why didn't you ask one of the numerous atheists that you apparently heard this from that question? I haven't come across one myself.

Mainly because I've never really cared enough to ask - for 99.9999% of the population I couldn't care less what they believe. I do find it odd and it seems like a few folks are somewhat making this argument in here but maybe I'm wrong on what they mean. The other reason is that I detest political and religious debates - they are almost always worthless with a bunch of name calling unless Joe is involved.

perhaps you could point one out

 

[Gr00vus]

While I think arguments for God's existence are irrational, I'm not going to say that I'm "rooted to reason" or anything like that. I'm sure I uncritically accept a lot of arguments that aren't reasonable. They're just different arguments that hit my own blind spots.

Sorry to put words in your mouth. I'd still hazard a guess that most of the core principles you hold and operate on as well as any major decisions in your life are made based on reason/logic to a very large extent.

I'm not talking about notions like "Kobe Bryant is the greatest conceivable basketball player" or "my spouse is the hottest man/woman of all time" etc. Unless you're married to Salma Hayek - then your wife is the hottest woman of all time.

 

[Eminence]

Do either of these concepts have more credence?

1.) There is no God, science proves this is one big accident.

2.) There is a God, however humans do not have the brain capacity to fully understand his grand scheme.

To me, there's no evidence to support anything in any direction regarding the origin of man. We of course know scientifically what happened but just because we know the "how" doesn't mean there isn't more to the problem that perhaps we are incapable of understanding.

 

[joffer]

Unless you're married to Salma Hayek - then your wife is the hottest woman of all time.

here's a religion I could get behind

 

[joffer]

Do either of these concepts have more credence?

1.) There is no God, science proves this is one big accident.

2.) There is a God, however humans do not have the brain capacity to fully understand his grand scheme.

I would say 1) has more credence, except science doesn't really "prove" things. it disproves things.

 

[Eminence]

This is a counterpoint to Otis' thread in which he challenges religious people to explain their faith. That thread has led to a great discussion, without much of some of the usual negativity that often occurs in religious threads. But I think it's only fair that if we should challenge religious people to justify their faith, we should also challenge non-religious people to justify their lack of faith: what makes you an atheist or agnostic?

For me, I became an atheist after reading about Jonas Salk. Salk's polio vaccine was only one of many medical achievements that have occurred since the development of modern science in the last 150 years or so, but it's one that stuck with me. The notion of a knowing God that could allow an insidious disease like polio to last for centuries, and do nothing about it even as millions of people prayed for Him to cure it, or to save them from the Plague (which we now know was cholera) or all of the other diseases which, in the Middle Ages, meant that life was such a crap shoot. The way millions of people still pray today for God to cure their cancer. A God that would allow that kind of suffering for centuries made no sense to me, unless I was to accept the notion of an amoral, uncaring, possibly evil God. Since I can't, I decided then and there to go with the no God option. Since that time, I've learned a lot of stuff that has strengthened my opinion on this (and that's all it is; I can't prove there is no god) but that was the turning point.

Everything in the Universe comes in pairs. IE: Matter and antimatter. If there is a God, it would only make sense to me that there was an opposing God tugging in the opposite direction.

EDIT: The every action has an equal and opposite reaction kind of thing. While the positive force is trying to help out humanity the best that it can, there's a negative force bringing everything down.

 

[KCitons]

I already mentioned some of this in the other thread. Here are the reasons I have zero faith in my religion.

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic grade school, Catholic High School, and was married in a Catholic Church (just barely). Even as a kid, I questioned why I had to participate in weekly mass at school. When I questioned why I had to sing during mass, they never had a good reason. When I refused, they gave me detention. Next mass, I sang loud enough that people in the parking lot could hear me. They didn't like that either. Catholics are never happy.

My wife isn't Catholic, but when we started going through classes to get married, the priest found out that we had been living together. He said, he wouldn't marry us, unless we made other living arrangements. I explained, that living under different roofs, wasn't going to solve the problem of us having sex. We had to find a different priest. Again, Catholics are never satisfied.

My Aunt was a very religious person. Spent a lot of time helping her community and people in general. She fostered over a dozen kids and adopted 2 of them. Her husband decided he wanted to be with another woman. So he divorced my Aunt. The Catholic Church wasn't keen on divorce at the time, she was ostracized. Even though Catholics preach forgiveness, their rules preclude them from doing so.

The last thing I could never get my head around was "Limbo" The Catholic belief that an infant that only lives for a short time, but is never baptized, doesn't go to heaven. It's only until recent that the Catholic Church has changed it's stance on this. But, I can't imagine the amount of pain that parents endured over the centuries.

 

[Slapdash]

J,

Why are you allowing Eminence to continue to post here?

Listen man, I assure you that you do not want to go down this path.

There's a line drawn on the ground, pick what side you want to be on. There's an "ignore" option on these boards for a reason. If you do not wish to read my posts, that is the easiest way to solve that problem. I have apologized for conduct that may have upset posters on here and I understand that some people refuse to let things go.

But we're clearing the way for bigger things here and this constant trolling of my character is something that will not be accepted. We are going to use my popularity in a way that positively effects FBG.

Let's not derail this topic any further though, I am sorry you do not approve of my posts. But as stated above, there's an easy fix for that.

Em

Seems like the easiest fix is to ban an obvious troll who threatens to kill himself and sue board members.

 

[sublimeone]

Someone may have said this already but I never understood why most atheists always say they don't believe in God because the Bible (or insert religious text) is ridiculous and impossible to be real. Why does god or God have to be one of those gods? Seems to me that there's at least a small chance that some supreme being exists but doesn't give two craps about any of us or what we do or don't do.

ETA - I shouldn't say most atheists. Rather a good portion of vocal atheists that I've personally heard have used this argument

why didn't you ask one of the numerous atheists that you apparently heard this from that question? I haven't come across one myself.

Mainly because I've never really cared enough to ask - for 99.9999% of the population I couldn't care less what they believe. I do find it odd and it seems like a few folks are somewhat making this argument in here but maybe I'm wrong on what they mean. The other reason is that I detest political and religious debates - they are almost always worthless with a bunch of name calling unless Joe is involved.

perhaps you could point one out

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741868

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741905

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741923

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741924

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741948

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741984

 

[Eminence]

J,

Why are you allowing Eminence to continue to post here?

Listen man, I assure you that you do not want to go down this path.

There's a line drawn on the ground, pick what side you want to be on. There's an "ignore" option on these boards for a reason. If you do not wish to read my posts, that is the easiest way to solve that problem. I have apologized for conduct that may have upset posters on here and I understand that some people refuse to let things go.

But we're clearing the way for bigger things here and this constant trolling of my character is something that will not be accepted. We are going to use my popularity in a way that positively effects FBG.

Let's not derail this topic any further though, I am sorry you do not approve of my posts. But as stated above, there's an easy fix for that.

Em

Seems like the easiest fix is to ban an obvious troll who threatens to kill himself and sue board members.

Please stop attempting to bait me into a discussion about this. It's obvious that you feel very passionately about what you are saying but I assure you this is neither the time nor the place to have this conversation. If you ran FBG then you would have the free range to ban whoever you'd like. But unless the word "administrator" magically appears under your name, it's fairly unlikely that you're going to get your way.

You have two options:

1.) You can block me.

2.) You can continue to derail topics and end up getting yourself a timeout.

Choose wisely,

Em

 

[Henry Ford]

I can explain why I don't have faith in a Christian God, the one we were all taught about at Sunday school - the one Jesus talks about throughout the New Testament.

The Christian God is allegedly omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent - He sees all, knows all, can do anything, and wants good things for His children. Yet He allows random and horrible things to happen to His children all the time. Not the free will problem - I won't even get into that because it's unnecessary and at least reasonably understandable on some level. I'm talking about so-called "Acts of God." Pestilence. SIDS. Mental illness. Polio, as mentioned before by Tim. Cystic fibrosis. Cerebral palsy. Earthquakes. Hurricanes. Tornadoes. Horrible things.

I cannot simultaneously believe that God is love, wants the best for His children, knows what's going on, has the ability to change it, and yet does not. Not with things that have nothing to do with free will. It's too big a leap for me.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Someone may have said this already but I never understood why most atheists always say they don't believe in God because the Bible (or insert religious text) is ridiculous and impossible to be real. Why does god or God have to be one of those gods? Seems to me that there's at least a small chance that some supreme being exists but doesn't give two craps about any of us or what we do or don't do.

If there's a supreme being that doesn't give two craps about any of us, why should any of us give two craps about it?

Maybe you could use that in a semantics argument about whether someone's atheist or agnostic, but otherwise it's irrelevant if such a god exists.

 

[Joe Bryant]

J,

Why are you allowing Eminence to continue to post here?

Listen man, I assure you that you do not want to go down this path.

There's a line drawn on the ground, pick what side you want to be on. There's an "ignore" option on these boards for a reason. If you do not wish to read my posts, that is the easiest way to solve that problem. I have apologized for conduct that may have upset posters on here and I understand that some people refuse to let things go.

But we're clearing the way for bigger things here and this constant trolling of my character is something that will not be accepted. We are going to use my popularity in a way that positively effects FBG.

Let's not derail this topic any further though, I am sorry you do not approve of my posts. But as stated above, there's an easy fix for that.

Em

To be clear, telling people to ignore you isn't going to work. You need to post in a way that helps the discussion along and doesn't derail topics. I'm not going to argue with you on that. You know how to do that. You're doing ok here. But I think it's important to understand we all have a part to play in this. We want to have a good discussion. Different opinions are not just welcome but necessary. But do it in a way that helps the whole thread and discussion move forward. Again, you're doing ok here. But work with us. And don't think that you can just tell people to ignore you.

J

 

[BustedKnuckles]

J,

Why are you allowing Eminence to continue to post here?

Listen man, I assure you that you do not want to go down this path.

There's a line drawn on the ground, pick what side you want to be on. There's an "ignore" option on these boards for a reason. If you do not wish to read my posts, that is the easiest way to solve that problem. I have apologized for conduct that may have upset posters on here and I understand that some people refuse to let things go.

But we're clearing the way for bigger things here and this constant trolling of my character is something that will not be accepted. We are going to use my popularity in a way that positively effects FBG.

Let's not derail this topic any further though, I am sorry you do not approve of my posts. But as stated above, there's an easy fix for that.

Em

I dont know you or follow your posts so i have no horse in this race ....but man ,i gotta say after reading that bolded part you seem pretty full of yourself. Thats all i have to say ...peace out.

 

[joffer]

Someone may have said this already but I never understood why most atheists always say they don't believe in God because the Bible (or insert religious text) is ridiculous and impossible to be real. Why does god or God have to be one of those gods? Seems to me that there's at least a small chance that some supreme being exists but doesn't give two craps about any of us or what we do or don't do.

ETA - I shouldn't say most atheists. Rather a good portion of vocal atheists that I've personally heard have used this argument

why didn't you ask one of the numerous atheists that you apparently heard this from that question? I haven't come across one myself.

Mainly because I've never really cared enough to ask - for 99.9999% of the population I couldn't care less what they believe. I do find it odd and it seems like a few folks are somewhat making this argument in here but maybe I'm wrong on what they mean. The other reason is that I detest political and religious debates - they are almost always worthless with a bunch of name calling unless Joe is involved.

perhaps you could point one out

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741868

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741905

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741923

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741924

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741948

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705947&p=16741984

0 for 6. impressive, even for you.