Carolina moves to zone blocking (1 Viewer)

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

So this article says Carolina is moving to a "zone blocking" scheme.

March 29, 2007, 07:02

Panthers :: OL

Panthers Move To Zone-Blocking Scheme

Pat Yasinskas, Charlotte Observer - [Full Article]

Head coach John Fox revealed Wednesday that the Panthers will begin using zone-blocking schemes in their offense, a dramatic change for a system that's been built around a power-running style. Fox said new offensive coordinator Jeff Davidson will begin installing zone blocking by the offensive line at minicamps and organized team activities this spring. "We have not been much of a zone-blocking team," Fox said. "Yet, we're kind of set up that way, to be real honest with you. That's something (Davidson) has a belief in."

Who do this style of blocking favor more? DeShaun or DeAngelo?

Thoughts?

 

[Blackjacks]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Good question. You need the proper linemen to do it, and your backs style needs to fit as well. I herd around town somewhere that the guy that the Lions brought in was switching to this style as well.

 

[Family Matters]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Not sure I agree with that. I've never thought of Foster as a power runner. He's a fast guy that relies more on cuts than power from what I've seen.As for the system, it couldn't be any worse than what they've been doing. I see both backs benefitting from this new style. The one that makes the transition sooner rather than later will get the early edge no doubt. But I wouldn't be willing to bet the house on D.Will being the man.

 

[coolnerd]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Most teams use some elements of zone blocking, but not as the base of their running games. If Carolina has enough linemen with athleticism the transition won't be difficult as it sounds.

 

[KoolKat]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Most teams use some elements of zone blocking, but not as the base of their running games. If Carolina has enough linemen with athleticism the transition won't be difficult as it sounds.

ATL made a smooth transistion to Zone a few years back, and it definitely made their run game better. They should make a move for Alex Gibbs.

 

[Family Matters]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

IIRC, the Redskins switched to a zone blocking scheme when they acquired Portis. They had a difficult time adjusting and Portis had a career low YPC of 3.8. I could be wrong so maybe someone can clarify that.

 

[zed2283]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Not sure I agree with that. I've never thought of Foster as a power runner. He's a fast guy that relies more on cuts than power from what I've seen.As for the system, it couldn't be any worse than what they've been doing. I see both backs benefitting from this new style. The one that makes the transition sooner rather than later will get the early edge no doubt. But I wouldn't be willing to bet the house on D.Will being the man.

I agree with this. Carolina's running game is terrible, so any change should be an improvement that will benefit both RB's. As to DeShaun, he isn't exactly a straight-ahead runner. He likes to dance a lot, so maybe zone-blocking will help him find a hole.

 

[FavreCo]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

DeAngelo

 

[Chunky Soup]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Not sure I agree with that. I've never thought of Foster as a power runner. He's a fast guy that relies more on cuts than power from what I've seen.As for the system, it couldn't be any worse than what they've been doing. I see both backs benefitting from this new style. The one that makes the transition sooner rather than later will get the early edge no doubt. But I wouldn't be willing to bet the house on D.Will being the man.

I agree with this. Carolina's running game is terrible, so any change should be an improvement that will benefit both RB's. As to DeShaun, he isn't exactly a straight-ahead runner. He likes to dance a lot, so maybe zone-blocking will help him find a hole.

Zone blocking is not for dancers. See: Tatum Bell.

 

[FavreCo]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Just take a look at Houston's stable of RB bums, incl. fat Ron Dayne. 5.3 ypc for that bum.

 

[cws3030]

Who do this style of blocking favor more? DeShaun or DeAngelo?

whoever is healthy

 

[Warpig]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

DeAngelo

All the DeAngelo owners will say it favors him and all the DeShaun owners will say it favors him.I say it won't benefit either until they get some decent line play as well as improved QB play.Oh...and it favors/doesn't favor DeAngelo/DeShaun.

 

[Toads]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Good question. You need the proper linemen to do it, and your backs style needs to fit as well. I herd around town somewhere that the guy that the Lions brought in was switching to this style as well.

Actually, you need the proper Alex Gibbs schooled coach to do it.In one of Shanny's Monday night TV shows he pointed out the basis of the scheme. Each OFF line guy engages the DEF target and directs the flow, working his head to one side or the other of the guy he's targeting. The RB reads the head/sholders of the OFF lineman to find the hole. If you can get a couple of good reads in the push, it's one cut and up. If there's no apparent opening, the back side OFF line guys are always working to take the back side flow defenders to the ground....the cut block deal that everyone is always being critical of.It's based on the lock on ability of the OFF lineman, the agility and strength to maintain the push and the idea that back side will eventually "be there" for the cut back because the back side defender is "on the ground".DeAngelo's strength is reading blocks so this is the scheme designed to insure his future trip to The Hall.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Not sure I agree with that. I've never thought of Foster as a power runner. He's a fast guy that relies more on cuts than power from what I've seen.As for the system, it couldn't be any worse than what they've been doing. I see both backs benefitting from this new style. The one that makes the transition sooner rather than later will get the early edge no doubt. But I wouldn't be willing to bet the house on D.Will being the man.

I agree with this. Carolina's running game is terrible, so any change should be an improvement that will benefit both RB's. As to DeShaun, he isn't exactly a straight-ahead runner. He likes to dance a lot, so maybe zone-blocking will help him find a hole.

Zone blocking is not for dancers. See: Tatum Bell.

The point is to get through the hole as quickly as possible, make one read and cut and take off. Don't dance around finding the hole and then try to fake a bunch of people out at the 2nd level.

 

[zadok]

As an owner of neither player, I would say this shift favors Williams.

 

[msommer]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

IIRC, the Redskins switched to a zone blocking scheme when they acquired Portis. They had a difficult time adjusting and Portis had a career low YPC of 3.8. I could be wrong so maybe someone can clarify that.

They switched in Portis'second year

 

[msommer]

Zone blocking is not for dancers. See: Tatum Bell.

Didn't he have a very healthy ypc on carries 1-15, dropping 16-25?Does he only dance when he is tired?

 

[Biabreakable]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

IIRC, the Redskins switched to a zone blocking scheme when they acquired Portis. They had a difficult time adjusting and Portis had a career low YPC of 3.8. I could be wrong so maybe someone can clarify that.

They switched in Portis'second year

This is correct. The 1st year Gibbs stuck with his power/counter trey blocking scheme and Portis was not as successful in that scheme so they switched to zone blocking in the following year and Portis did a lot better.

 

[rascal]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Atlanta tried to switch several years ago after they brought in Gibbs, the ex-bronco o-line coach guru, but they are resorted back to their traditional style I believe.

 

[BigJim®]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Not sure I agree with that. I've never thought of Foster as a power runner. He's a fast guy that relies more on cuts than power from what I've seen.As for the system, it couldn't be any worse than what they've been doing. I see both backs benefitting from this new style. The one that makes the transition sooner rather than later will get the early edge no doubt. But I wouldn't be willing to bet the house on D.Will being the man.

I agree with this. Carolina's running game is terrible, so any change should be an improvement that will benefit both RB's. As to DeShaun, he isn't exactly a straight-ahead runner. He likes to dance a lot, so maybe zone-blocking will help him find a hole.

Zone*No* blocking scheme is not for dancers. See: Tatum BellAny dancing RB.

Fixed.Seems like a good move with guys like Foster/D.Will, assuming they have OL players who can implement it. Not every OL can. Someone else mentioned Washington and I'm not sure that OL was capable of excelling at any particular blocking scheme, including zone blocking. Much of that was based on injuries if I recall right.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Not sure I agree with that. I've never thought of Foster as a power runner. He's a fast guy that relies more on cuts than power from what I've seen.As for the system, it couldn't be any worse than what they've been doing. I see both backs benefitting from this new style. The one that makes the transition sooner rather than later will get the early edge no doubt. But I wouldn't be willing to bet the house on D.Will being the man.

I agree with this. Carolina's running game is terrible, so any change should be an improvement that will benefit both RB's. As to DeShaun, he isn't exactly a straight-ahead runner. He likes to dance a lot, so maybe zone-blocking will help him find a hole.

Zone*No* blocking scheme is not for dancers. See: Tatum BellAny dancing RB.

Fixed.

Sanders.

 

[switz]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Deshaun is an excellent one-cut runner. DeAngelo dances too much, terrible for zone blocking system.

 

[switz]

DeAngelo's strength is reading blocks so this is the scheme designed to insure his future trip to The Hall.

As a Carolina homer, I'm not sure DeAngelos strength is reading blocks

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Deshaun is an excellent one-cut runner. DeAngelo dances too much, terrible for zone blocking system.

You really think that Foster doesn't dance too much? I'm a homer too, and that has always been one of my biggest complaints about him. He can be indecisive.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Deshaun is an excellent one-cut runner. DeAngelo dances too much, terrible for zone blocking system.

You really think that Foster doesn't dance too much? I'm a homer too, and that has always been one of my biggest complaints about him. He can be indecisive.

So maybe this is a move to get their RB's to quit dancing and hit the hole. As smurky as that RBBC seems, Im thinking that throw a new blocking scheme on top of that = avoid these two guys

 

[BigJim®]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Not sure I agree with that. I've never thought of Foster as a power runner. He's a fast guy that relies more on cuts than power from what I've seen.As for the system, it couldn't be any worse than what they've been doing. I see both backs benefitting from this new style. The one that makes the transition sooner rather than later will get the early edge no doubt. But I wouldn't be willing to bet the house on D.Will being the man.

I agree with this. Carolina's running game is terrible, so any change should be an improvement that will benefit both RB's. As to DeShaun, he isn't exactly a straight-ahead runner. He likes to dance a lot, so maybe zone-blocking will help him find a hole.

Zone*No* blocking scheme is not for dancers. See: Tatum BellAny dancing RB.

Fixed.

Sanders.

Exception that proves the rule. Honestly I'd say a guy almost needs to be hall of fame talented to get away with what Sanders did. Most RBs are chastised any time they dance.

 

[Exile]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Atlanta tried to switch several years ago after they brought in Gibbs, the ex-bronco o-line coach guru, but they are resorted back to their traditional style I believe.

Definitely not true. Atlanta switched...and did so very successfully up to last year.However, the new coach Petrino is scratching it for a more traditional "power running" scheme because that's what he prefers. Personally, I think this is a mistake because Atlanta's problem hasn't been their running game so why change what ain't broke?

 

[switz]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Deshaun is an excellent one-cut runner. DeAngelo dances too much, terrible for zone blocking system.

You really think that Foster doesn't dance too much? I'm a homer too, and that has always been one of my biggest complaints about him. He can be indecisive.

Both dance -but Deangelo dances more. However DeShaun is not aa "power, straight ahead runner"

 

[ThePittbully]

I think its a great move for the team because it favors both their runners, neither belongs in a power system

 

[Footballhead]

IMO, Deangelo has better the better vision, however, I don't think Carolina has the OL to implement this scheme succesfully.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Both dance -but Deangelo dances more. However DeShaun is not aa "power, straight ahead runner"

Well, I think that DeAngelo was better at hitting the hole last year, but yes they both dance. And you are right on, Foster is not a power runner, although he is not horrible at it either. He got some tough yards occasionally.

 

[H.K.]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Good question. You need the proper linemen to do it, and your backs style needs to fit as well. I herd around town somewhere that the guy that the Lions brought in was switching to this style as well.

More from the same article:

That system could fit Carolina's personnel better than the power running system Fox had used under former coordinator Dan Henning. Running backs DeAngelo Williams and DeShaun Foster might be better suited to run the stretch plays that go with zone-blocking schemes than to pound away between the tackles.

However, Fox said the change is due more to the talents of the offensive line than the running backs.

After a season in which the Panthers had to shuffle their line because of injuries, Fox said the plan is to use Travelle Wharton at left tackle, shift Jordan Gross back to right tackle, keep Mike Wahle at left guard and Justin Hartwig at center. Geoff Hangartner, who filled in at center last season when Hartwig was injured, likely will compete with Evan Mathis at right guard.

Gross, Wharton and Wahle fit the profile of athletic linemen who excel in a zone-blocking scheme.

"If you're an athletic offensive line, it makes the defense honest," Fox said. "That's the key. It's about keeping the opponent off-balance and creating good matchups."

Fox said he doesn't expect the transition to be difficult.

"Some of your blocking schemes in trap systems are harder to read and harder to maneuver than zone blocking," he said.

The main thing this season is that Wharton and Hartwig will be back. Most OL's that lose two starters will be weakened.Also, moving Gross to RT should help, too. This was from his scouting report when he was drafted:

Negatives: A little light in the leg department and might need to add more bulk to his frame … Might be better suited for right tackle, as he does whiff a lot on a quick set (inconsistent hand placement), but the rest of his game has no flaws.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

IMO, Deangelo has better the better vision, however, I don't think Carolina has the OL to implement this scheme succesfully.

We'll see. Wahle on the left and Gross on the right could be good at it. Wharton, I'm not as sure about. As for the other OL positions, it will be interesting to see how they play out in preseason. The new scheme could also lead to a new starter or two. I really don't think they will be taking a step back with this move, as they proved over the last couple of years that they are not the power running team they wanted to be. At worst, they remain the same stats wise, but I do think we will see some improvements in the running game this year.

 

[Warpig]

I think its a great move for the team because it favors both their runners, neither belongs in a power system

 

[Slinger]

So basically no one here knows.

 

[beto]

My take on this is that there blocking scheme was ideal for Stephen Davis. Foster tried to adopt that style and I think he had inconsistent success. This could be a good thing for the YPC of both backs.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I think its a great move for the team because it favors both their runners, neither belongs in a power system

<_<

So basically no one here knows.

:X

 

[Sidewinder]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Just take a look at Houston's stable of RB bums, incl. fat Ron Dayne. 5.3 ypc for that bum.

Dayne was at 4.1 ypc last year. :whoosh: Lundy = 3.8 ypc

Gado = 4.0 ypc

Team was 3.9 ypc for the season.

Texans 2006 stats

 

[switz]

My take on this is that there blocking scheme was ideal for Stephen Davis. Foster tried to adopt that style and I think he had inconsistent success. This could be a good thing for the YPC of both backs.

:whoosh:

 

[Chunky Soup]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Just take a look at Houston's stable of RB bums, incl. fat Ron Dayne. 5.3 ypc for that bum.

Dayne was at 4.1 ypc last year. :whoosh: Lundy = 3.8 ypc

Gado = 4.0 ypc

Team was 3.9 ypc for the season.

Texans 2006 stats

HOU already had zone blocking anyway, so this is hardly a fair comparason either way. We are trying to see performance in the first-year switch.Another mention of the HOU ZBS is here:

Domanick Davis

“(The new zone blocking) is great for a running back. I can pick from three to four holes. (A defense) won’t know where the ball is the going to go. It’s great. (Regarding whether he can handle a full 16-game workload) It’s just up to me and how I prepare myself before the season comes. I think I can handle it. I’m sure there is going to be doubt just because no one has seen me do it before. I just wasn’t given the chance to do it, so now we’re going to find out everything.”

 

[Family Matters]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

IIRC, the Redskins switched to a zone blocking scheme when they acquired Portis. They had a difficult time adjusting and Portis had a career low YPC of 3.8. I could be wrong so maybe someone can clarify that.

They switched in Portis'second year

This is correct. The 1st year Gibbs stuck with his power/counter trey blocking scheme and Portis was not as successful in that scheme so they switched to zone blocking in the following year and Portis did a lot better.

Thanks for the clarification. That's sound right to me now that you explained it. In fact he did much better.

 

[Jedimaster21]

Definetly DeAngelo. He is a cut back runner which the zone favors. DeShaun is more of a power, straight ahead runner. It will be a DeAngelo autumnn Carolina this year.

Deshaun is an excellent one-cut runner. DeAngelo dances too much, terrible for zone blocking system.

You really think that Foster doesn't dance too much? I'm a homer too, and that has always been one of my biggest complaints about him. He can be indecisive.

Both dance -but Deangelo dances more. However DeShaun is not aa "power, straight ahead runner"

I think many would agree with you, but when I watch DeAngelo I don't see this tendency. I think he is an explosive back who is very elusive, but he is also very decisive and has excellent vision. He is NOT a back who dances behind the line, and does NOT have difficulty deciding on a hole. He hits the hole fast and hard, and is then elusive at the second level.

 

[Jedimaster21]

I would have to say that DWill is just more talented than Foster, so it really doesn't matter IMO what changes are made. Williams is the future in Carolina. However, I think the zone blocking fits a back who has great vision, makes quick decisions at the line, and can make a cut and get down field. This change should be positive for both backs, but it helps DWill more.

 

[Sweet Love]

The zone blocking scheme favors Eric Shelton. Seriously, it does.

 

[Family Matters]

The zone blocking scheme favors Eric Shelton. Seriously, it does.

 

[Billy1x]

Just how easy is it for a team to convert to this style?

Most teams use some elements of zone blocking, but not as the base of their running games. If Carolina has enough linemen with athleticism the transition won't be difficult as it sounds.

ATL made a smooth transistion to Zone a few years back, and it definitely made their run game better. They should make a move for Alex Gibbs.

It takes time. You can only practice during the regular season because of the potential for devastating injuries. The Packers switched last year but it took quite a few games to get experience at real blocking. They were getting pretty good by the end of last year. You do need small mobile guards though.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So Mike Wahle (guard) was interviewed yesterday on Sirius radio and was really excited about the new OC. He also said that there were times last year when they knew there was going to be a player unaccounted for on the defensive line and they couldn't do anything about it. He said that the new changes for the offensive line are going to create a lot of flexibility. He also mentioned that DeAngelo will be more involved in the offense this year and compared him to Ahman Green. (I got all this stuff from Panthers message boards).

I really think that folks need to keep an eye on the Panthers running game in the preseason. The Oline is the deepest it has been in years. Kalil should make an instant impact and will allow Hartwig to move over to guard. Wharton is coming back from injury, and Wahle should be healthier as well. Combine this depth with a new scheme and we could see some really good things coming out of the Carolina running game.

Of course, the question remains as to which back, if any, will become the featured back. Having watched all their games last year, my money would be on DeAngelo.

 

[BigJim®]

He also mentioned that DeAngelo will be more involved in the offense this year and compared him to Ahman Green. (I got all this stuff from Panthers message boards).