Sabertooth
Footballguy
Just cut Andy Dalton for him. So above Dalton somewhere.
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Carson Palmer Traded to Oakland (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dgr81
- Start date
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
I cut Rex Grossman for him. But that's not a very high bar.
fantasizing
Footballguy
Apparently Palmer has been throwing passes to T. Owens in California for the last little while......
Won't be too soon before we see both of these guys playing in the NFL.
Won't be too soon before we see both of these guys playing in the NFL.
baconisgood
Footballguy
Not according to Palmer. In the Raiders season thread he is quoted as saying the only NFL player he was working out with was TJ.
BuffaloWings
Footballguy
Would you cut Colt McCoy for Carson Palmer?
LawFitz
Footballguy
Just heard an interview with Mike Lombardi, who said that Palmer was advised to have Tommy John surgery a few years ago but instead chose to let it rehabilitate naturally. That is a major detail that I was unaware of. I didn't realize it was that bad. Yikes.
Anyone able to intelligently comment about the prospects of Tommy John injuries that heal naturally? Can the ligament ever regain full strength on its own? I'm guessing it wasn't fully torn if he chose to avoid surgery.
Anyone able to intelligently comment about the prospects of Tommy John injuries that heal naturally? Can the ligament ever regain full strength on its own? I'm guessing it wasn't fully torn if he chose to avoid surgery.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Bengals fans love hearing about this now
Of course it makes the trade that much better 
-QGbaconisgood
Footballguy
At the most basic level I believe that natural healing is much better for a damaged ligament than surgery. The advantage of surgery is the speed.If it was fully torn there is no option.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Well, I had the choice of one of these to pick up this week and chose McCoy*.-QG* - I have Vick so I'm looking more at just this week. I cut Flacco to do it. Personally I think all 3 are in the same neighborhood.
VaTerp
Footballguy
Interesting quote from Ken O'Brien who has been working out Palmer during his "retirement."
"He's healthy as a horse," said ex-Jets QB Ken O'Brien, who has been working with Palmer the past few months. O'Brien concedes that Palmer came back from his elbow injury too quickly, "wasn't 100 percent natural" and "didn't look like his old self" from 2008-2010.
Link to full blurb.
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/217206/reports-palmers-arm-strength-has-returned
This basically confirms what I and others were saying about Palmers noticeable loss of arm strength the last 3 seasons.
As was pointed out a few posts up, Palmer had very serious elbow problems to the point that many advised him to have Tommy John. I guess a lot of people didnt realize how serious the damage was. I thought he had some form of surgery until I looked it up while debating in this thread.
But it also sounds like the time off may have been good for his arm. As was also pointed out a few posts up, Palmer decided to let the ligament heal naturally instead of surgery. Now nearly 3 years removed from the problems and working out on his own schedule, Palmer's arm is reportedly looking better. Charlie Casserly noted that in tape of the last 3 games from last season he liked what he saw from Palmer.
"He's healthy as a horse," said ex-Jets QB Ken O'Brien, who has been working with Palmer the past few months. O'Brien concedes that Palmer came back from his elbow injury too quickly, "wasn't 100 percent natural" and "didn't look like his old self" from 2008-2010.
Link to full blurb.
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/217206/reports-palmers-arm-strength-has-returned
This basically confirms what I and others were saying about Palmers noticeable loss of arm strength the last 3 seasons.
As was pointed out a few posts up, Palmer had very serious elbow problems to the point that many advised him to have Tommy John. I guess a lot of people didnt realize how serious the damage was. I thought he had some form of surgery until I looked it up while debating in this thread.
But it also sounds like the time off may have been good for his arm. As was also pointed out a few posts up, Palmer decided to let the ligament heal naturally instead of surgery. Now nearly 3 years removed from the problems and working out on his own schedule, Palmer's arm is reportedly looking better. Charlie Casserly noted that in tape of the last 3 games from last season he liked what he saw from Palmer.
massraider
Footballguy
Dang. I would NOT do that.
I concur.At the end of the day Fitzpatrick still is on a pass happy team with a crap defense while Palmer is on a run first team with an average defense.
azgroover
Footballguy
Haven't setup a trade proposal yet, so I'm still hanging on the ledge.I really like Oakland's matchups from a QB perspective though.Denver, Chicago, Green Bay among others
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I like this move.
Not because there aren't questions about Palmer's arm strength, durability, or the opportunity cost of what we had to give up to get him.
But because this is what we HAD to do. In the year where the Raiders lost Al, nothing stays truer to the mantra of "Just Win, Baby" than this move. We are all-in, sacrificing whatever we need to to retain the best start we've had and the best opportunity we've had to win the division since Gannon.
This may smack of desperation to some, an out-and-out fleecing to others, and I can't blame the critics for howling. But right or wrong, when did we Raiders fans give a damned what the critics think? I mean, what actual choices were there out there in the QB market? There are very few elite QBs at the position (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning), and a handful more that can be consistently great (Romo, Schaub, Big Ben, Rivers, Vick). Outside of these guys, Palmer gives the Raiders a likely shot at winning any given Sunday 4as any the rest of them.
To be able to nab Palmer and keep a turn-around season alive was the ONLY thing for the Raiders to do -- is it better to simply give up and roll over? And as such, was it really that much of a price to pay? For a QB who has strong connections and rapport to the first coach since Gruden who has instilled an old sense of Poise and Pride and winning mentality to the Silver & Black?
I mean, what did the Cards give up for Kolb? A Pro Bowl corner and a 2nd round draft pick.
What did the Falcons give up for Julio Jones? Two 1st round, a 2nd, and two 4th round picks. For a WR.
I'm sure there are tons of other or better examples. So does this really seem outlandish for the Raiders to go all-in on a guy who is an upgrade from Campbell, and fills the most glaring hole of need for the team right now?
Hell, I'd give up a 1st round pick to NOT have to watch Boller flub his way under center for the rest of the season.
I know this is like glass-half-full, Polyanna homerism. I don't care.
I'd rather see us scrap and claw and fight each and every game with every ounce we have, sacrificing potential for the sake of winning now, instead of rolling over and dying.
The Raiders needed this, regardless of what we had to pay to get it. Here's hoping that Palmer -- like so many Raiders before him -- gets to rejuvenate his career and find a place helping our beloved Raiders keep this train a rolling.
Only time will tell.
Not because there aren't questions about Palmer's arm strength, durability, or the opportunity cost of what we had to give up to get him.
But because this is what we HAD to do. In the year where the Raiders lost Al, nothing stays truer to the mantra of "Just Win, Baby" than this move. We are all-in, sacrificing whatever we need to to retain the best start we've had and the best opportunity we've had to win the division since Gannon.
This may smack of desperation to some, an out-and-out fleecing to others, and I can't blame the critics for howling. But right or wrong, when did we Raiders fans give a damned what the critics think? I mean, what actual choices were there out there in the QB market? There are very few elite QBs at the position (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning), and a handful more that can be consistently great (Romo, Schaub, Big Ben, Rivers, Vick). Outside of these guys, Palmer gives the Raiders a likely shot at winning any given Sunday 4as any the rest of them.
To be able to nab Palmer and keep a turn-around season alive was the ONLY thing for the Raiders to do -- is it better to simply give up and roll over? And as such, was it really that much of a price to pay? For a QB who has strong connections and rapport to the first coach since Gruden who has instilled an old sense of Poise and Pride and winning mentality to the Silver & Black?
I mean, what did the Cards give up for Kolb? A Pro Bowl corner and a 2nd round draft pick.
What did the Falcons give up for Julio Jones? Two 1st round, a 2nd, and two 4th round picks. For a WR.
I'm sure there are tons of other or better examples. So does this really seem outlandish for the Raiders to go all-in on a guy who is an upgrade from Campbell, and fills the most glaring hole of need for the team right now?
Hell, I'd give up a 1st round pick to NOT have to watch Boller flub his way under center for the rest of the season.
I know this is like glass-half-full, Polyanna homerism. I don't care.
I'd rather see us scrap and claw and fight each and every game with every ounce we have, sacrificing potential for the sake of winning now, instead of rolling over and dying.
The Raiders needed this, regardless of what we had to pay to get it. Here's hoping that Palmer -- like so many Raiders before him -- gets to rejuvenate his career and find a place helping our beloved Raiders keep this train a rolling.
Only time will tell.
glumpy
breeze
'Stompin said:I like this move. Not because there aren't questions about Palmer's arm strength, durability, or the opportunity cost of what we had to give up to get him. But because this is what we HAD to do. In the year where the Raiders lost Al, nothing stays truer to the mantra of "Just Win, Baby" than this move. We are all-in, sacrificing whatever we need to to retain the best start we've had and the best opportunity we've had to win the division since Gannon.This may smack of desperation to some, an out-and-out fleecing to others, and I can't blame the critics for howling. But right or wrong, when did we Raiders fans give a damned what the critics think? I mean, what actual choices were there out there in the QB market? There are very few elite QBs at the position (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning), and a handful more that can be consistently great (Romo, Schaub, Big Ben, Rivers, Vick). Outside of these guys, Palmer gives the Raiders a likely shot at winning any given Sunday 4as any the rest of them. To be able to nab Palmer and keep a turn-around season alive was the ONLY thing for the Raiders to do -- is it better to simply give up and roll over? And as such, was it really that much of a price to pay? For a QB who has strong connections and rapport to the first coach since Gruden who has instilled an old sense of Poise and Pride and winning mentality to the Silver & Black?I mean, what did the Cards give up for Kolb? A Pro Bowl corner and a 2nd round draft pick.What did the Falcons give up for Julio Jones? Two 1st round, a 2nd, and two 4th round picks. For a WR. I'm sure there are tons of other or better examples. So does this really seem outlandish for the Raiders to go all-in on a guy who is an upgrade from Campbell, and fills the most glaring hole of need for the team right now? Hell, I'd give up a 1st round pick to NOT have to watch Boller flub his way under center for the rest of the season.I know this is like glass-half-full, Polyanna homerism. I don't care.I'd rather see us scrap and claw and fight each and every game with every ounce we have, sacrificing potential for the sake of winning now, instead of rolling over and dying.The Raiders needed this, regardless of what we had to pay to get it. Here's hoping that Palmer -- like so many Raiders before him -- gets to rejuvenate his career and find a place helping our beloved Raiders keep this train a rolling.Only time will tell.
Good luck. Now to business--who's the WR of choice?!! 
fantasizing
Footballguy
I like the move. High risk/high reward. You have to take some chances, and the Raiders are gambling.
Palmer has a track record and if the stories about his arm getting back to the previous form are anywhere close to true, then the passing
game will be a force.
Palmer has a track record and if the stories about his arm getting back to the previous form are anywhere close to true, then the passing
game will be a force.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Would this trade be worth it if the Raiders make the playoffs this season? IMO, the answer is no. The cost is still too high. They need to become a super bowl contender and I can't put them in that catagory.
I think about the Vikings desperation trade for Randy Moss and I will admit that the Raiders are in a much better position than the Vikings were. You can say that losing a third round draft pick is no big thing but it handicapped the Vikings draft last season. Vikings may have tried to move up for Locker or Tyron Smith. Who knows who was really #1 on their draft board?
As a fan, I would be pissed if I had to sit through next years draft knowing that they are unlikely to get a real difference maker.
I think about the Vikings desperation trade for Randy Moss and I will admit that the Raiders are in a much better position than the Vikings were. You can say that losing a third round draft pick is no big thing but it handicapped the Vikings draft last season. Vikings may have tried to move up for Locker or Tyron Smith. Who knows who was really #1 on their draft board?
As a fan, I would be pissed if I had to sit through next years draft knowing that they are unlikely to get a real difference maker.
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Apple Jack
Footballguy
They just moved the draft up and that difference maker is starting at QB. This team is in too good a position right now to fold. They had to get somebody. I'll bet most Raiders fans are ecstatic about it.
footballnerd
Footballguy
Most likely in the Wild Card games, I think Divisional Playoffs would get them some praise. AFC Championships next year.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
palmer's 2010 highlights...
this is biased, doesn't show bad plays, but it at least shows that he is still on occasion CAPABLE of throwing with strength, touch and accuracy... zip on the short and intermediate throws, nice trajectory on some of the deeper throws...
i wonder if OL troubles in recent years caused him to regress from his fundamentals and mechanics...
when i saw his workout coming out of USC, i thought he had among the most picture perfect, textbook deliveries i've ever seen...
anyways, it sounded like among other things, he was tired of losing, and sick of all the constant drama and theatrics (ie - chad johnson/ocho cinco, lunatics running the asylum), the organizational quirks (reportedly they don't splurge on the scouting department, have been known in the past to take chances on questionable character)... ironically, CIN has gotten rid of ocho cinco & TO (good for them for moving on and having success with green, dalton, who look like they will be a great battery for the next decade)... maybe this will turn out sort of like when eli didn't want to play for SD, gets traded to NYG, and than the chargers almost to the day of the trade became relevant again...
like others have said, i think the change of venue/scenery could do him some good, and just wanted to add that SOME of the visual evidence suggests that widespread reports of the "death" of his arm may have been greatly exagerrated...
it will be interesting to see how palmer, who i always thought was a good leader, responds to playing with a WR corp that not only has talent and speed, but also is young and hungry (instead of jaded and more interested in self promotion, end zone celebration antics, etc... but that speaks more to ocho cinco era, obviously, if palmer had elected to stay in CIN, he could have played with green, gresham, simpson, shipley, etc.)...
this is biased, doesn't show bad plays, but it at least shows that he is still on occasion CAPABLE of throwing with strength, touch and accuracy... zip on the short and intermediate throws, nice trajectory on some of the deeper throws...
i wonder if OL troubles in recent years caused him to regress from his fundamentals and mechanics...
when i saw his workout coming out of USC, i thought he had among the most picture perfect, textbook deliveries i've ever seen...
anyways, it sounded like among other things, he was tired of losing, and sick of all the constant drama and theatrics (ie - chad johnson/ocho cinco, lunatics running the asylum), the organizational quirks (reportedly they don't splurge on the scouting department, have been known in the past to take chances on questionable character)... ironically, CIN has gotten rid of ocho cinco & TO (good for them for moving on and having success with green, dalton, who look like they will be a great battery for the next decade)... maybe this will turn out sort of like when eli didn't want to play for SD, gets traded to NYG, and than the chargers almost to the day of the trade became relevant again...
like others have said, i think the change of venue/scenery could do him some good, and just wanted to add that SOME of the visual evidence suggests that widespread reports of the "death" of his arm may have been greatly exagerrated...
it will be interesting to see how palmer, who i always thought was a good leader, responds to playing with a WR corp that not only has talent and speed, but also is young and hungry (instead of jaded and more interested in self promotion, end zone celebration antics, etc... but that speaks more to ocho cinco era, obviously, if palmer had elected to stay in CIN, he could have played with green, gresham, simpson, shipley, etc.)...
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Short Corner
Footballguy
And the fact that the arm is usually stronger than it was before the injury.
5Rings
Lurker
'Stompin said:I like this move. Not because there aren't questions about Palmer's arm strength, durability, or the opportunity cost of what we had to give up to get him. But because this is what we HAD to do. In the year where the Raiders lost Al, nothing stays truer to the mantra of "Just Win, Baby" than this move. We are all-in, sacrificing whatever we need to to retain the best start we've had and the best opportunity we've had to win the division since Gannon.This may smack of desperation to some, an out-and-out fleecing to others, and I can't blame the critics for howling. But right or wrong, when did we Raiders fans give a damned what the critics think? I mean, what actual choices were there out there in the QB market? There are very few elite QBs at the position (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning), and a handful more that can be consistently great (Romo, Schaub, Big Ben, Rivers, Vick). Outside of these guys, Palmer gives the Raiders a likely shot at winning any given Sunday 4as any the rest of them. To be able to nab Palmer and keep a turn-around season alive was the ONLY thing for the Raiders to do -- is it better to simply give up and roll over? And as such, was it really that much of a price to pay? For a QB who has strong connections and rapport to the first coach since Gruden who has instilled an old sense of Poise and Pride and winning mentality to the Silver & Black?I mean, what did the Cards give up for Kolb? A Pro Bowl corner and a 2nd round draft pick.What did the Falcons give up for Julio Jones? Two 1st round, a 2nd, and two 4th round picks. For a WR. I'm sure there are tons of other or better examples. So does this really seem outlandish for the Raiders to go all-in on a guy who is an upgrade from Campbell, and fills the most glaring hole of need for the team right now? Hell, I'd give up a 1st round pick to NOT have to watch Boller flub his way under center for the rest of the season.I know this is like glass-half-full, Polyanna homerism. I don't care.I'd rather see us scrap and claw and fight each and every game with every ounce we have, sacrificing potential for the sake of winning now, instead of rolling over and dying.The Raiders needed this, regardless of what we had to pay to get it. Here's hoping that Palmer -- like so many Raiders before him -- gets to rejuvenate his career and find a place helping our beloved Raiders keep this train a rolling.Only time will tell.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
I heard Jim Mora, Jr on WFAN yesterday ( Boningo and Roberts)..Boningo was talking about Palmer, and that he hasn't been the same player since he took that shot in the playoff game vs. Pitt a few years back..
Mora was saying that Palmer had been working out with TJ Housh and Ken O'Brien, and Housh had commented that Palmer's arm looked better than it did before his injury, that he had as much, if not more zip on the ball than he ever had while Housh was playing in Cincy.
Time will tell but it is promising to say the least.
Mora was saying that Palmer had been working out with TJ Housh and Ken O'Brien, and Housh had commented that Palmer's arm looked better than it did before his injury, that he had as much, if not more zip on the ball than he ever had while Housh was playing in Cincy.
Time will tell but it is promising to say the least.
Tackling Dummies
Footballguy
footballnerd
Footballguy
Raiders HQ is by the airport and a business park, gets pretty deserted and dark at night, keeps people out.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Duh, it's the Raiders. You don't think they let them outside the compound when it's not a game day do you?
-QGJoe Summer
Footballguy
Details on Palmer's restructured contract
Under the old contract, Palmer could have showed up on September 1st and received $11.5 million guaranteed. Under the new contract, he'll get $2.5 million this year, plus he's guaranteed to get at least $5 million of the $12.5 million he's scheduled to get next season.
Under the old contract, Palmer could have showed up on September 1st and received $11.5 million guaranteed. Under the new contract, he'll get $2.5 million this year, plus he's guaranteed to get at least $5 million of the $12.5 million he's scheduled to get next season.
LawFitz
Footballguy
So two high (but likely - hopefully - not top 15) draft picks and $7.5 MM guaranteed. If the diligence said the arm is right, I can see why the Raiders would do this deal. It's amazing to me how much is riding on one elbow. Carson at 100% makes the trade well worth it to this team built to win now. Carson at anything less than 100%, on the other hand costs picks but not necessarily cap. His salary cap hit will essentially be dictated by performance. After the relatively low guarantees all the other numbers are only targets, nothing more. This is a very cap friendly deal.
Short Corner
Footballguy
It's cap friendly if they decide to cut him. If not, they will be paying him top 10 QB numbers. The non-guaranteed part isn't incentive laden.
LawFitz
Footballguy
I guarantee you that Palmer will renegotiate the non-guaranteed numbers in 2013 and beyond downward unless he is a top ten QB at that point. Based on this guy's personality, it wouldn't even shock me if he took less pay in future years to help the Raiders free up cap space for roster help if they need it to take the next step. This is a very cap friendly and flexible deal overall, not matter how the situation plays out. The draft picks on the other hand, not so friendly. But at least it's not a double whammy of premium picks plus cap rigidity in the even that things don't work.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
The $5 million next year is basically a buyout price. If the Raiders decide to keep him, they'll have to pay him the full $12.5 million OR they'll have to get him to renegotiate for less. And based on how much they gave up to get him, it seems like the Raiders will pay the full $12.5 million unless Palmer gets injured or plays worse than Donovan McNabb.
massraider
Footballguy
The contract is good news.
We aren't getting him for a bargain the next few years, but it's do-able.
The Raiders have paid out some big deals over the last few years, but most of them are short term deals, and by the time they need to re-sign the youngsters, those deals will be off the books.
We aren't getting him for a bargain the next few years, but it's do-able.
The Raiders have paid out some big deals over the last few years, but most of them are short term deals, and by the time they need to re-sign the youngsters, those deals will be off the books.
johnadams
Footballguy
Barbed wire is from the airport. I work two doors down from OAK HQ/practice facility and the barbed wire is there on all fences in the area.
LawFitz
Footballguy
He will have more leeway in 2012, but make no mistake, performance will dictate all non-guaranteed parts of this deal. This guy's already signed two previous elite NFL QB contracts with ginormous bonuses. He gave up a total of almost $10 MM this season by not showing up to play for the Bengals. Money's always an issue because at minimum it's a representation of how you are valued, but this contract tells me that Carson is very reasonable when it comes to the issue of money.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Do you know if the Bengals eat the signing bonus hit or is that now applied to the Raiders?
massraider
Footballguy
If there is an accelerated hit on the cap due to a signing bonus, the Bengals eat it.That's if there is one. The Bengals could have payed his signing bonus as a roster bonus, which only applies to the season it is paid.
Short Corner
Footballguy
They prorated it over the life of the contract, $2.5M/yr.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Maybe the Bengals can draft a QB with Oakland's pick.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Bengals wishing they had Carson Palmer back.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Maybe, but they probably don't even reach the playoffs with Palmer at QB.They win this game with Palmer at QB.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Palmer has been solid all year for the Raiders. Didn't throw any big interceptions at all.
1) They never make the playoffs if they still had Palmer. Look at how well he did late in that win-and-in game against the Chargers
2) Palmer was a monster in that '09 playoff game. Right.
Thanks again for the 1st and 2nd round picks. They will come in handy as my Bengals continue to build a solid foundation. Enjoy draft weekend.
-QG
1) They never make the playoffs if they still had Palmer. Look at how well he did late in that win-and-in game against the Chargers
2) Palmer was a monster in that '09 playoff game. Right.
Thanks again for the 1st and 2nd round picks. They will come in handy as my Bengals continue to build a solid foundation. Enjoy draft weekend.
-QG
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
The Bengals trophy case needs polishing.Palmer has been solid all year for the Raiders. Didn't throw any big interceptions at all.
1) They never make the playoffs if they still had Palmer. Look at how well he did late in that win-and-in game against the Chargers
2) Palmer was a monster in that '09 playoff game. Right.
Thanks again for the 1st and 2nd round picks. They will come in handy as my Bengals continue to build a solid foundation. Enjoy draft weekend.
-QG
massraider
Footballguy
Which of those 417 passing yards did you laugh at the hardest?Hey, I'd hate Palmer to if I was you. He's your Randy Moss. I get it. But if you are going to try and point to his performance on the field, I don't see it.I am happy with Palmer. 
Wish we hadn't given up draft picks, but hey, good for Cincy. Still gotta make those picks count, right? Still have to scout players with the least-funded scouting staff and cheapest owner in football, right?haha wow
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Wow. Wake me when you get a new owner. Until then, you might want to stand down and shut up. Your team isn't going anywhere. Cheapness won't win in the NFL.Palmer has been solid all year for the Raiders. Didn't throw any big interceptions at all.
NorrisB
Footballguy
You sound like a Notre Dame fan pointing to ancient Raider historyThe Bengals trophy case needs polishing.Palmer has been solid all year for the Raiders. Didn't throw any big interceptions at all.
1) They never make the playoffs if they still had Palmer. Look at how well he did late in that win-and-in game against the Chargers
2) Palmer was a monster in that '09 playoff game. Right.
Thanks again for the 1st and 2nd round picks. They will come in handy as my Bengals continue to build a solid foundation. Enjoy draft weekend.
-QG
