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Carson Palmer's Future (1 Viewer)

J-Rock

Footballguy
I'm pretty confident CP will be back next year and will be a top 5 QB again before long. So much so that I dealt my first round rookie pick for him a few weeks ago (I was very weak at QB).

What are the rest of you thinking? Where is everyone's confidence level with CP going forward.

 
I think he is a huge risk, and don't see him as a top 5 QB going forward.

Having said that, if your 1st round pick was a low one,

then it's probable worth the risk.

 
I'm rebuilding and looking for high upside options like Carson.

I bought him a couple of weeks ago for LenDale White, Jordy Nelson, and downgraded from a 2nd round rookie pick to a 5th round rookie pick.

 
The answer depends on whether he ends up requiring the Tommy John surgery, which will apparently be determined on December 7 when he begins throwing again. If he doesn't require the surgery, then he's definitely worth a late 1st round rookie pick to be able to help you in 2009 and beyond, albeit with a crap organization. If he does need the surgery, I think the 8 month recovery time that's been mentioned on Bengals.com seems optomistic since most resources suggest it's a full year recovery. If he does miss 2009 then I'd say he's worth less than the 1st you paid. Tough call, I would take the risk like you did.

 
The answer depends on whether he ends up requiring the Tommy John surgery, which will apparently be determined on December 7 when he begins throwing again. If he doesn't require the surgery, then he's definitely worth a late 1st round rookie pick to be able to help you in 2009 and beyond, albeit with a crap organization. If he does need the surgery, I think the 8 month recovery time that's been mentioned on Bengals.com seems optomistic since most resources suggest it's a full year recovery. If he does miss 2009 then I'd say he's worth less than the 1st you paid. Tough call, I would take the risk like you did.
more importantly, what does it say on that chick's ###
 
The answer depends on whether he ends up requiring the Tommy John surgery, which will apparently be determined on December 7 when he begins throwing again. If he doesn't require the surgery, then he's definitely worth a late 1st round rookie pick to be able to help you in 2009 and beyond, albeit with a crap organization. If he does need the surgery, I think the 8 month recovery time that's been mentioned on Bengals.com seems optomistic since most resources suggest it's a full year recovery. If he does miss 2009 then I'd say he's worth less than the 1st you paid. Tough call, I would take the risk like you did.
more importantly, what does it say on that chick's ###
It's the passage from I Corinthians 13 that speaks about love... ending in the line: 'But the greatest of these all is Love.'
 
The answer depends on whether he ends up requiring the Tommy John surgery, which will apparently be determined on December 7 when he begins throwing again. If he doesn't require the surgery, then he's definitely worth a late 1st round rookie pick to be able to help you in 2009 and beyond, albeit with a crap organization. If he does need the surgery, I think the 8 month recovery time that's been mentioned on Bengals.com seems optomistic since most resources suggest it's a full year recovery. If he does miss 2009 then I'd say he's worth less than the 1st you paid. Tough call, I would take the risk like you did.
more importantly, what does it say on that chick's ###
It's the passage from I Corinthians 13 that speaks about love... ending in the line: 'But the greatest of these all is Love.'
that's not nearly as sexy as I expected it to be :unsure:
 
A couple of weeks ago I traded Cutler for Palmer + a 1st.

Don't get me wrong, I like Cutler, but I am in full rebuild mode and can afford to sit on Palmer for another year or two while I add to the rest of my team. I may have hit the jackpot too as the team I traded with can only make the playoffs thru total points. If he doesn't score a lot better than 2 other teams this weekend, I will end up with the 3rd or 4th overall pick due to his record. It drops to #7 or 8 overall if he makes the playoffs.

 
Holding. I have Warner and Flacco to go along with Palmer so I can afford to wait and see what happens. I haven't got one offer for him yet.

 
I'd avoid like the plague at the price of a 1st rounder. Even if he fully recovers(which is no given) he's still in Cincinnati and he could lose both his starting WR's this offseason. There are about 15 QB's I'd rather have in a dynasty league, including older options like Warner and McNabb.

At this point I'd say Palmer's value is basically similar to Matt Schaub only with less upside.

 
I've seen a few comments about him being on a bad team. That is actually one of the reasons I like him. The Bengals are never going to be up by enough to run out the clock which means good garbage time stats for the QB. If Ryan Fitzpatrick can average 175yds, 1td and 1int per gameon this team, I'm confident a healthy CP can can do a lot better than that.

Also, they are saying his injury is not nearly as severe as Jake Delhomme's. Delhomme had the surgery at the age of 32. Palmer is only 28.

for the record, I got a second rounder in the deal as well.

thanks for the input.

 
I've seen a few comments about him being on a bad team. That is actually one of the reasons I like him. The Bengals are never going to be up by enough to run out the clock which means good garbage time stats for the QB. If Ryan Fitzpatrick can average 175yds, 1td and 1int per gameon this team, I'm confident a healthy CP can can do a lot better than that. Also, they are saying his injury is not nearly as severe as Jake Delhomme's. Delhomme had the surgery at the age of 32. Palmer is only 28.for the record, I got a second rounder in the deal as well. thanks for the input.
First off, I'm a Palmer dynasty owner so I'm not biased against him. I don't give him added value based on the fact he's on a bad team. I think that was proved irrelevant last year when Palmer was healthy, yet aside from one 5-TD game against Cleveland he was a serious disappointment. Nothing has really changed. On degree of injury vs. Delhomme, hopefully you are right and that makes a difference so he can avoid TJ surgery. No question it hurt him if he needs the surgery but has delayed getting it due to false hope of recovery. In the longer Palmer thread I've compared his situation to 2 Minnesota Twins pitchers who rested their minor tears for 4 months trying to avoid surgery, but eventually heard the 'pop' and needed the surgery after all that wasted time. I don't want to be an alarmist, but that could happen to Palmer December 7 or next June. Once you have Tommy John surgery to replace the ligament completely, it's a moot issue whether the replaced ligament was less torn than Delhomme's. Also, I don't think it is clear that Delhomme has the same arm strength as before and the only other NFL QBs who had that surgery were scrubs (Doug Pederson and another who slips my mind) so it's far from proven that NFL QBs come back as strong as before.
 
I've seen a few comments about him being on a bad team. That is actually one of the reasons I like him. The Bengals are never going to be up by enough to run out the clock which means good garbage time stats for the QB. If Ryan Fitzpatrick can average 175yds, 1td and 1int per gameon this team, I'm confident a healthy CP can can do a lot better than that. Also, they are saying his injury is not nearly as severe as Jake Delhomme's. Delhomme had the surgery at the age of 32. Palmer is only 28.for the record, I got a second rounder in the deal as well. thanks for the input.
I don't give him added value based on the fact he's on a bad team.
:hophead: Most of the top fantasy QB's come from good teams, not horrendous teams like the Bengals.
 
Holding. I have Warner and Flacco to go along with Palmer so I can afford to wait and see what happens. I haven't got one offer for him yet.
Similar situation here with Carson, Warner, and Ryans. I intend to hold since I doubt anyone will give up much for Carson at this point - there's not a huge market for QB's in our league to begin with (ten teamer). That said, I would probably trade him for a first round rookie pick, even if it was on the low end.
 
I've seen a few comments about him being on a bad team. That is actually one of the reasons I like him. The Bengals are never going to be up by enough to run out the clock which means good garbage time stats for the QB. If Ryan Fitzpatrick can average 175yds, 1td and 1int per gameon this team, I'm confident a healthy CP can can do a lot better than that.

Also, they are saying his injury is not nearly as severe as Jake Delhomme's. Delhomme had the surgery at the age of 32. Palmer is only 28.

for the record, I got a second rounder in the deal as well.

thanks for the input.
First off, I'm a Palmer dynasty owner so I'm not biased against him. I don't give him added value based on the fact he's on a bad team. I think that was proved irrelevant last year when Palmer was healthy, yet aside from one 5-TD game against Cleveland he was a serious disappointment. Nothing has really changed. On degree of injury vs. Delhomme, hopefully you are right and that makes a difference so he can avoid TJ surgery. No question it hurt him if he needs the surgery but has delayed getting it due to false hope of recovery. In the longer Palmer thread I've compared his situation to 2 Minnesota Twins pitchers who rested their minor tears for 4 months trying to avoid surgery, but eventually heard the 'pop' and needed the surgery after all that wasted time. I don't want to be an alarmist, but that could happen to Palmer December 7 or next June. Once you have Tommy John surgery to replace the ligament completely, it's a moot issue whether the replaced ligament was less torn than Delhomme's. Also, I don't think it is clear that Delhomme has the same arm strength as before and the only other NFL QBs who had that surgery were scrubs (Doug Pederson and another who slips my mind) so it's far from proven that NFL QBs come back as strong as before.
I think it was 6 TD's, which only furthers your point - his overall season stats were inflated by that one 50 point performance. And even with those points, he was still barely top ten.
 
Palmer's stats were pretty low in weeks 1 and 2... preinjury. As a Palmer owner, I hope they invest in a better tackle with that 3rd pick

 
Is Palmer definitely done for this year? He is sitting on our ww
No, he's not. Bengals.com reported yesterday that the schedule is for Palmer to begin throwing again December 7. They play a game that day so he's obviously not playing in it if it is the first day he's throwing. If all goes well, he hopes to play this year but week 15 vs. the Redskins would seemingly be the very soonest that could happen. Week 16 vs. the Browns looks like a nice matchup, but if you pick him up, that's your one upside of getting him IMHO, with a lot of ifs conditioning even that.
 
Steering clear. I have him ranked around QB20 in dynasty. The Schaub with less upside is probably a good comparison.

Even willing to throw the whole elbow issue aside (which really no one should), not a whole lot to like about that situation there. I imagine they'll franchise TJ & toss Chad overboard, then you have to pray one of the other WR's show something and then have to build a rapport with Carson.

 
I'm looking to move him and/or Russell for any draft picks I can get. I see more upside with Russell which is very sad, but I get the feeling Palmer's elbow is cooked and he is on such a horrible team. No chance he is startable in 2009 IMO. I'll have to wait until after the regular season is over before trading is open again so wait and see I guess.

 
Good news on his recovery, probably won't need surgery:

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7396

Link

Bombs away

By GEOFF HOBSON

December 18, 2008

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Updated: 4 p.m.

The ante, not to mention the speed, has been raised in Carson Palmer's throwing program now that Bengals rehab director Nick Cosgray is splitting the catches with some receivers and is about to be demoted for good by guys like Matt Sherry and Antonio Chatman.

"(His hands) are suspect and his arm is worse," said Palmer, but his smile told you that he thinks Cosgray "has done a phenomenal job," along with the rest of the Bengals medical staff building his throwing elbow back with therapy instead of surgery after suffering a slight tear of the ulna collateral ligament in his throwing elbow Sept. 21 against the Giants.

Palmer said the arm feels like it did before the injury, that he's back to 80 percent, and hopes to be back at 100 percent within the next two weeks. He says then, and only then, will he know for sure he doesn't need surgery. (Thursday Injury Report)

Which if it's done in the next month and if it's anything like Panthers quarterback Jake Delhomme's procedure, he'd be back throwing by the start of training camp or early in camp.

Palmer

But the vibe still is no surgery as he continues to jump through each hoop. The tentative plan now is to throw during the offseason and be ready for the May camps if he can cut it loose at 100 percent throwing routes in the next 10 days or so. With the majority of his five doctors advising against surgery, he believes the gamble would be in having surgery and not the other way around.

"The feedback was so negative because of the progress of rehab and the timing of rehab," Palmer said. "And the success rate of rehab. That's why I've been so leery of having it, and hopefully I don't have to do it."

In the professional opinion of his receivers, Palmer looks just fine in showing the arm strength he had before he suffered his elbow injury against blitzing Giants cornerback Corey Webster and what he did in his last outing in Dallas Oct. 5.

"He was throwing it real good today. Nick dropped about half of them, but Antonio and Matt Sherry caught some," said wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh. "I would bet all the money I've got that he (won't have surgery). I've seen him the last two or three days. I haven't caught them, but you can just see the zip on the ball. He's cool. Much better than Dallas."

Chatman and Sherry are rehabbing on injured reserve and Sherry, a rookie tight end, said he ran routes out of the playbook for Palmer Thursday morning before practice.

"It felt the same. It felt like the same ball I caught at training camp," Sherry said. "We didn't throw very long, but he looked good zinging it."

Palmer said the only way he'll be able to tell if he doesn't need surgery is to cut it loose throwing routes.

"Like timing on my normal comebacks. Timing and rhythm on my normal curl route," he said. "Or squeezing it into the holes (against) defenses, which would be more telltale how it is. I think I should be able to know throwing routes to receivers and asking them, 'Do you feel the ball is getting there as quick? Does it feel like it's staying in the air a little long? Can you get your hands the same way?' "

Although he doubts he'll play in the Dec. 28 finale, Palmer hopes to be at 100 percent by the end of this week or next week and if he needs surgery it would be in the next couple of weeks.

Palmer says he hasn't thrown a ball more than 55 yards so far and says he can get it to 60-75 yards when he's at 100 percent. But he's already taken out one ceiling panel in the gym.

"I'm not playing soft toss, but I'm trying to go slowly," Palmer said. "I started at 10 percent, 10 yards for a week, and then gradually moved my way up to 60, 70, 80 percent , and hopefully next week 90, 100 percent."

Delhomme, who had a bigger tear and much more muscle damage in his elbow, had surgery a year ago in October was back throwing in practice around Memorial Day.

Palmer's second long-term medical ordeal in less than three years might have been eased by the comeback from reconstructive knee surgery during January to August in 2006.

"After having reconstructive knee surgery, you don't trust walking, let alone jogging. At some point, you have to stop playing mind games with yourself," he said. "Take that leap of faith, whether it's the first box jump or throwing the first comeback. I've been through that with my mind and have experienced that. What they tell you to do is what you have to do even if doesn't feel right, or you feel like you're going to be unsuccessful. You have to do it. I trust the guys that I'm working with. They've done a great job. Nick's done a phenomenal job. Dr. (Angelo) Colosimo. The timeline they set and what they said was going to happen has happened."

Jordan Palmer, his brother and the Bengals No. 3 quarterback, hasn't seen Carson throw but he knows he's both frustrated and encouraged.

"He feels like his rehab is going well and he was throwing well today," Jordan said. "It's definitely tough to watch your team win or lose. He hadn't been hurt that much but all you can control is work ethic, how coachable you are, how tough you are. There's not much else you can control. He's still himself."

Which means he's on the evenest of keels. But since Carson hasn't played after that 31-22 loss to the Cowboys in Jerry's den that was 17-16 early in the fourth, that may now have to be looked upon as one of the toughest Who-Dey moments ever. He was 23-of-39 for 217 yards, an interception, and two touchdowns to Houshmandzadeh. The only giveaway is that his longest pass was a 25-yarder to Houshmandzadeh.

"I knew it was screwed up that week of practice. He wasn't the same," Houshmandzadeh said.

Palmer said he limited himself that week to just 20 throws on Friday but he knew in the first quarter that he couldn't get his customary power on his passes.

"I've been throwing a football since I was four. When something doesn't feel right, you know, " Palmer said. "I knew right away."

Looking back on it, Houshmandzadeh shook his head.

"He toughed it out," he said. "You would never know he was going through the things he was going through. You couldn't tell. But he toughed it out. That's all you can say. He put his career on the line and he's lucky it didn't cost him."
 
Thanks for posting that. His avoidance of surgery makes some sense now. There are still a lot of questions about fantasy production in Cinci going forward, but at least it sounds like health won't be one of those concerns.

 
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puckalicious said:
MRI shows Palmer will not need elbow surgery.

Looks like he'll be ready for training camp. Maybe he'll be fine after all.
Well, call me Mr. Negativity but as a Palmer dynasty owner I remain concerned and may hold a firesale based on favorable news. Here's an example of why I'm concerned:7/31/06 MRI shows no structural damage

8/11/06 2nd MRI shows only mild strain

9/15/06 MRI again shows no need for Liriano surgery

10/9/06 More MRI's confirm no structural damage

11/03/06 Liriano to have Tommy John surgery, miss 2007

 
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puckalicious said:
MRI shows Palmer will not need elbow surgery.

Looks like he'll be ready for training camp. Maybe he'll be fine after all.
Well, call me Mr. Negativity but as a Palmer dynasty owner I remain concerned and may hold a firesale based on favorable news. Here's an example of why I'm concerned:7/31/06 MRI shows no structural damage

8/11/06 2nd MRI shows only mild strain

9/15/06 MRI again shows no need for Liriano surgery

10/9/06 More MRI's confirm no structural damage

11/03/06 Liriano to have Tommy John surgery, miss 2007
I could be off base on this, but wouldn't you guss that a basell pitcher puts alot more strain on their elbow than a quarterback? It just seems alot more severe of a motion. Think about when you throw a baseball as hard as you can versus when you throw a football as far/hard as you can.
 
puckalicious said:
MRI shows Palmer will not need elbow surgery.

Looks like he'll be ready for training camp. Maybe he'll be fine after all.
Well, call me Mr. Negativity but as a Palmer dynasty owner I remain concerned and may hold a firesale based on favorable news. Here's an example of why I'm concerned:7/31/06 MRI shows no structural damage

8/11/06 2nd MRI shows only mild strain

9/15/06 MRI again shows no need for Liriano surgery

10/9/06 More MRI's confirm no structural damage

11/03/06 Liriano to have Tommy John surgery, miss 2007
I could be off base on this, but wouldn't you guss that a basell pitcher puts alot more strain on their elbow than a quarterback? It just seems alot more severe of a motion. Think about when you throw a baseball as hard as you can versus when you throw a football as far/hard as you can.
I think the answer to your question is yes, and certainly Liriano's nasty slider was reported to be partially to blame for his injury. That said, I have no idea how fast an NFL QB throws a ball. I was under the impression it's pretty fast in its own right even if no 90 MPH. My only point is it seems like MRI's aren't real predictive for this ligament.ETA: I'm interested in getting reports on whether he's throwing pain-free. I think the last reports were around week 16 and said he was throwing at 90% and planned to begin throwing at full speed/distance in the coming week. To me, if he's doing that without pain that is a far better indicator. Then again, if he is doing that at full strength without pain, why did he have this MRI, and why was that not mentioned along with this report?

 
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