Casserly: No team wants Vince Young as a starter (1 Viewer)

[Ice Cream Man]

Regarding Mawae's comments as well, how in the world could VY make it to this point in his life as a functional illiterate? I get it happens in HS and sometimes in college. The Titans' gave him a 58 Million dollar contract and guaranteed 26 Million of it. With that kind of investment in a player, don't you think they'd hire someone to help him with some fundamentals? To me, its the Titans' fault if they didn't get him up to speed.

Best thing that could happen to VY would be to go to a team with a top notch QB coach.

UT is well known for coddling its players. It doesn't surprise me in the least. The money they paid him - correct me if I'm wrong - is largely mandated. Yeah they had the incentive to help him. You don't think they did? Fisher was instrumental in bringing McNair along; I've seen nothing to suggest that Tennessee's coaching staff is somehow lacking. This is precisely where VY's bad work ethic and lack of preparation come in. You can't force someone to learn if they don't want to, even if you try to give them help for their disability or whatever he's struggling with. Vince has to want to learn.

Thus your line of reasoning, while interesting and speculative, is incomplete if you don't incorporate VY's actual competency into the equation.

I think its a bit early to write off VY. Mawae's comments are definitely an eye opener, but given the number of teams that need QBs he'll find a job. It would seem very likely however, that whatever team he does go to won't put all their eggs in the VY basket. Something like Vick going to Philly. If Holmgren becomes HC in Cleveland, it may make a ton of sense for VY to go there.

Vince can be an effective QB, but to be consistent and win important games, he needs the entire offense revolving around him, like it was at UT. This poses a major problem at the NFL level because teams will NOT put all their eggs in one basket. If Vince goes down (by injury, meltdown, poor performance, whatever) a backup will need to be able to come in and play semi-effectively.

Vince played well for the most part in 2010. [i wonder how much of that is due to Britt and the team doing a better job focusing on what he does best]. Still, he deserves praise - he's minimizing his mistakes on the field. He has opened up the running game, at times. But despite improvement this year, Vince remains inconsistent as ever and could use better accuracy for a team built on ball control. Vince has never won an important game at the NFL level (in fact, he completely blew the only game of importance where, in 2006, a win in week 17 would have clinched a playoff birth). And on the flip side of the improvement on the field, he more than lost out in his maturity, stability and leadership (see meltdowns at Pitt, Wash, et al.). I don't know if any NFL team will treat 2010 as a progression in his QB career.

I am happy VY has a new future ahead of him. A change of scenery will help. I will be fascinated to see how VY can be used effectively on a championship-winning team.

 

[Summer Wheat]

I was listening to a radio interview with Kevin Mawae, who implied that Vince Young's biggest problem is that he's functionally illiterate. He said he can't correctly read plays off his wristband, and often called the wrong play after it was called in. He said the offense had to know the situation and the expected playcall, and that usually they could correct it, but sometimes they couldn't. He said Young was a great athlete but that he didn't think any team could win with him at QB.

Didnt VY score a 6 or something like that on his Wonderlic?I have heard this before Mawae came forward with this info this season though... VY is far from the sharpest pencil in the box.

Young scored a 6 on his first Wonderlic but they coached him up and let him take it again the next day and he scored a 16.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

With his mental status being the major issue, if he doesn't get a starting gig somewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if he kills himself. While that is terrible to say, the guy said he thought about it earlier in his career.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Obviously not to Vick's degree, but if he stands a shot in this league he has to be kicked down first like he was. Unlike Vick, I don't think Vince can mentally handle that though. If he can't work with a coach with a rep like Fish I don't see how any other reputible coach will take a shot and an up-and-coming coach would probably get buried by a guy like Vince.He may win some games, but titles won't be won with him under center. Ok...maybe the NFC West.

At this point you've got to wonder if the guy is just permamently damaged. With Vick's resurgence, someone is going to give the guy a shot again. But I doubt he's brought in as the favorite starter candidate. He'll be asked to compete.And I agree. I don't know that he can handle that.

 

[FUBAR]

my first thought was along the same lines as Diesel, but then I remembered how hard it is for rookies to get playing time because they usually don't get the offense quickly. VY would be lost even if it sounds good on paper.

Actually it's the opposite. The Titans gave Vince a very vanilla offense as a rook and to many that was the best he ever played as a pro winning ROY or OROY and rattling off 7 or 8 straight wins.

How is this the opposite? VY cannot run a complicated offense, the Eagles have a complicated offense. Ergo, bad match.ETA: I was referring to Eagles rookies when I stated it was hard for them to get playing time, not rookies in general.

"how hard it was for rookies" "Vince's best year"

Yeah, I was referring to the Eagles offense, it's all about context. My first post wasn't 100% clear I guess but you have to read what I was replying to.

Uh hell no. Id rather have McNabb back as the #2 then Vince Young anywhere near this team. Their offense is hard enough the way it is ( too hard I think ), he would get lost just walking to the practice field.

 

[Mark Wimer]

When the QB is among the highest paid positions on your team, most owners want a QB to be the face of their organization. They are on the media program, constantly getting interviewed, etc. It's more than just playing the position on Sunday. If I was an owner I wouldn't consider Vince Young at this stage of his career. Way too many immature things continually keep coming up with him to be the face of my organization. Add that to a known horrible Wonderlic score and I do see most organizations passing here.

This is right on, IMO. What if Young melts down after a loss at the press Q and A? What if he decides to harm himself or others on the team as a result of a breakdown? The guy looks like pure poison to me given how 'on the edge' he seems to be in his personal/professional life.

 

[guderian]

I was listening to a radio interview with Kevin Mawae, who implied that Vince Young's biggest problem is that he's functionally illiterate. He said he can't correctly read plays off his wristband, and often called the wrong play after it was called in. He said the offense had to know the situation and the expected playcall, and that usually they could correct it, but sometimes they couldn't. He said Young was a great athlete but that he didn't think any team could win with him at QB.

It's only Fisher's Lombardi-like awesomeness that overcame Young's epic flaws that allowed him to compile a 30-17 record as a starter. I'll bet Fisher will be thrilled that he no longer has to tie Young's shoes or put together a copy of the game plan with crayons. Young needs to go through the same thing that Vick did and only then will he achieve Vick's success of a 3/1 TD/INT ratio, 8+ YPA, 60%ish completion percentage and win ~2/3rds of his games.

 

[guderian]

I was listening to a radio interview with Kevin Mawae, who implied that Vince Young's biggest problem is that he's functionally illiterate. He said he can't correctly read plays off his wristband, and often called the wrong play after it was called in. He said the offense had to know the situation and the expected playcall, and that usually they could correct it, but sometimes they couldn't. He said Young was a great athlete but that he didn't think any team could win with him at QB.

Wow

Whatver, Mawae. Vince Young has a winning record as a starter. That trumps anything else. We all know how much football is like tennis and golf and relies on the abilities of a single trancendent player who can carry the other 53 guys on his back each week.

Exactly. People need to understand that the team that went 2-11 the last two years without Young as a starter was a completely different team than the team that went 12-7 with him. The Fisher/Young divorce will be good for both parties. Fisher never wanted Young--he preferred Leinart and now he can go out and get him cheap.

 

[blackbird001]

He openly doesn't listen to his coaches. He pouts/quits when he doesn't get his way. He thought about killing himself. Would you want to trust him as your starting QB?

You forgot one other thing that he does..... He gets in back-room fights at strip joints! Don't recall Either Manning brother, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, or any other classy QB having such a long list of troubles. He'll get the kind of contract and respect that he has earned. Life works that way for most of us.

Don't forget the all male shirtless tequila parties!

 

[Foosball God]

I am not a Vince Young fan at all.......but I do think he makes a nice backup and on one of those teams that actually use their backups......like to back up Stafford who is constantly injured.....or SF or AZ.....but I also think SF and AZ find solid starters soon so they wont be looking to use their backups as often or EVER

I would like to see the Lions bring in Young to backup Stafford.

 

[Foosball God]

To the Eagles for Kolb with a first rounder and some future picks leaving with VY

That was my first thought on the ideal landing place for him. He could back up Vick and maybe learn something from him, with their similar styles the offense would hopefully run more smoothly in the event that Vick gets injured.

 

[SWC]

i think vy might have a bad influence on michael vick so they will probably not want him to go there and ruin the chemistry that they obviously have on the o side of the ball up there in philly cheesesteak town instead i bet he gets dealt to a team that stinks up the joint like AZ just so he can bring in some fans and anyone would be better than the hydra beast of craphouse qbs they had there this year even larry johson as grammama

 

[Bri]

VY would attract fans in Texas. I doubt he's much of a draw elsewhere, especially Zona

 

[TheWheel]

Michael Vick has already dealt with bad influences. VY will follow Vick's lead not the other way around.

And to those who say he can't handle a complex offense, since when has Tennessee been an offensive juggernaut? If you are trying to get McNair out of VY you aren't going to. Andy Reid could turn VY into the best VY could be. If a 2 year old can learn to read, VY can learn.

 

[Bri]

Michael Vick has already dealt with bad influences. VY will follow Vick's lead not the other way around.And to those who say he can't handle a complex offense, since when has Tennessee been an offensive juggernaut? If you are trying to get McNair out of VY you aren't going to. Andy Reid could turn VY into the best VY could be. If a 2 year old can learn to read, VY can learn.

I never understood that whole line of thinking with him. Maybe the wonderlic horrific score made people go overboard.Maybe it's a sight issue? I don't think so, kinda throwing something out there. I think he appears less intelligent in the pocket than when he is on the run. Maybe that's where people think it continues post wonderlic and then addon his poor behavior off the field at times. People call the latter dumb, but with young millionaires under pressure it's often a release and immaturity not stupidity.Vince's on the field maturity needed to come within the pocket. He has poisoned that by only listening to some coaches. On the run, the Titans only needed to refine his game. He was fantastic at it to start with.

 

[ookook]

I think this shows exactly why Wonderlic scores are a useful indicator of job success even in the NFL.

In terms of Vick, he scored a 20. Even with Young's re-take, a 16 isn't great. Can he learn from his mistakes?I doubt it. And any reasonable interview process should have borne this out.

 

[TheWheel]

The one thing about the Wonderlic is that has absolutely nothing to do with football. If you've played sports your whole life, your intelligence has never been focused on English or mathematics. The same with whatever you do. I've never seen a touchdown scored because of a test.

 

[Joe Summer]

I think this shows exactly why Wonderlic scores are a useful indicator of job success even in the NFL.

In terms of Vick, he scored a 20. Even with Young's re-take, a 16 isn't great. Can he learn from his mistakes?I doubt it. And any reasonable interview process should have borne this out.

A high Wonderlic means that in the very least you'll make a great Assistant Coach someday. It doesn't have much bearing on how well you can perform as a quarterback.There are lots of bad QBs with high Wonderlic scores. But there are very few good quarterbacks with low Wonderlic scores.

 

[FUBAR]

I think this shows exactly why Wonderlic scores are a useful indicator of job success even in the NFL.

In terms of Vick, he scored a 20. Even with Young's re-take, a 16 isn't great. Can he learn from his mistakes?I doubt it. And any reasonable interview process should have borne this out.

A high Wonderlic means that in the very least you'll make a great Assistant Coach someday. It doesn't have much bearing on how well you can perform as a quarterback.There are lots of bad QBs with high Wonderlic scores. But there are very few good quarterbacks with low Wonderlic scores.

it just means you have an ounce of intelligence.

 

[redBourne]

I think a terrible Wonderlic is a bad sign of intelligence and a poor ability to learn. It means that your ability to pickup new information is hampered in some way (perhaps how much you care thus far). But it's not a final indicator of your football success. Just like a high score on the Wonderlic doesn't mean you'll be successful in football. You may have a higher degree of intelligence up to this point, and your ability to learn new information is faster, but that could all be thrown out the window with a 6'6" 287 lb outside linebacker is coming at you with 4.5 speed unblocked.

I for one do NOT want to entertain the ID of VY going to the Eagles. His winning record may will open up some opportunities that may have been closed otherwise, but I won't try to speculate on how is record came to pass. I haven't researched his turn over ratio, the run to pass ratio when he was a starter, the opponents record at the time, or some insiders knowledge to how complex the passing offense was.

 

[lod01]

Michael Vick has already dealt with bad influences. VY will follow Vick's lead not the other way around.

And to those who say he can't handle a complex offense, since when has Tennessee been an offensive juggernaut? If you are trying to get McNair out of VY you aren't going to. Andy Reid could turn VY into the best VY could be. If a 2 year old can learn to read, VY can learn.

WTF??? A 2 year old can't learn to read complex defenses and neither can vince young.

 

[TheWheel]

That was in reference to what Mawae said about him not being able to read/call plays. Not read a defense.

 

[Mikey16x]

Vince needs to work on his coverage skills. Maybe he can make the team as a special-teamer.

 

[Mello]

When the QB is among the highest paid positions on your team, most owners want a QB to be the face of their organization. They are on the media program, constantly getting interviewed, etc. It's more than just playing the position on Sunday. If I was an owner I wouldn't consider Vince Young at this stage of his career. Way too many immature things continually keep coming up with him to be the face of my organization. Add that to a known horrible Wonderlic score and I do see most organizations passing here.

This is right on, IMO. What if Young melts down after a loss at the press Q and A? What if he decides to harm himself or others on the team as a result of a breakdown? The guy looks like pure poison to me given how 'on the edge' he seems to be in his personal/professional life.

:badposting:What you say may be true. If so, owners and GMs are shortsighted. All that matters is winning. That's what puts butts in the seats, sells concessions and merchandise, and makes people money. I can't think of an example where a QB was even moderately successful but off the field matters kept people away and hurt the team. If I'm the owner of a team with awful QBs like the Cardinals, Panthers, or Vikings, and I don't see another QB in free agency or the draft that is better than Vince Young, I don't see why I would rather start with Hall, Clausen, or Jackson than Young. If he melts down at a press conference, who cares? No one except the media. It awfully speculative that he would harm himself or others, but even if that happened, your back where you were before, with an awful QB.

 

[BigTex]

I was listening to a radio interview with Kevin Mawae, who implied that Vince Young's biggest problem is that he's functionally illiterate. He said he can't correctly read plays off his wristband, and often called the wrong play after it was called in. He said the offense had to know the situation and the expected playcall, and that usually they could correct it, but sometimes they couldn't. He said Young was a great athlete but that he didn't think any team could win with him at QB.

Wow

Whatver, Mawae. Vince Young has a winning record as a starter. That trumps anything else. We all know how much football is like tennis and golf and relies on the abilities of a single trancendent player who can carry the other 53 guys on his back each week.

Exactly. People need to understand that the team that went 2-11 the last two years without Young as a starter was a completely different team than the team that went 12-7 with him. The Fisher/Young divorce will be good for both parties. Fisher never wanted Young--he preferred Leinart and now he can go out and get him cheap.

IIRC, Fisher wanted to draft defense not Leinart. He may have thought that Leinart was a better QB but I he wanted to draft a defensive end.........I forget his name at the moment.

 

[Abraham]

IIRC, Fisher wanted to draft defense not Leinart. He may have thought that Leinart was a better QB but I he wanted to draft a defensive end.........I forget his name at the moment.

No. Chow and fisher wanted leinart. Adams decided Thursday nugget that vy was going to be the guy. There were no defensive ends other then Williams that went top ten that year iirc. (Williams, bush, vy, Ferguson, hawk, Davis, huff...

 

[Bri]

When the QB is among the highest paid positions on your team, most owners want a QB to be the face of their organization. They are on the media program, constantly getting interviewed, etc. It's more than just playing the position on Sunday. If I was an owner I wouldn't consider Vince Young at this stage of his career. Way too many immature things continually keep coming up with him to be the face of my organization. Add that to a known horrible Wonderlic score and I do see most organizations passing here.

This is right on, IMO. What if Young melts down after a loss at the press Q and A? What if he decides to harm himself or others on the team as a result of a breakdown? The guy looks like pure poison to me given how 'on the edge' he seems to be in his personal/professional life.

:badposting:What you say may be true. If so, owners and GMs are shortsighted. All that matters is winning. That's what puts butts in the seats, sells concessions and merchandise, and makes people money. I can't think of an example where a QB was even moderately successful but off the field matters kept people away and hurt the team. If I'm the owner of a team with awful QBs like the Cardinals, Panthers, or Vikings, and I don't see another QB in free agency or the draft that is better than Vince Young, I don't see why I would rather start with Hall, Clausen, or Jackson than Young. If he melts down at a press conference, who cares? No one except the media. It awfully speculative that he would harm himself or others, but even if that happened, your back where you were before, with an awful QB.

Let's suppose Pacman is a free agent and Vince is as well. The Panthers can only sign one and need both a QB and a CB. (ignore anything you know of their roster)Who do you think they'd choose and why?

 

[FUBAR]

IIRC, Fisher wanted to draft defense not Leinart. He may have thought that Leinart was a better QB but I he wanted to draft a defensive end.........I forget his name at the moment.

No. Chow and fisher wanted leinart. Adams decided Thursday nugget that vy was going to be the guy. There were no defensive ends other then Williams that went top ten that year iirc. (Williams, bush, vy, Ferguson, hawk, Davis, huff...

There's a lot of misinformation out there, to the point I no longer am sure of what Fisher wanted. I had heard he wanted Cutler which made sense to me and seems to have been the consensus belief at the time, I also heard he wanted Ngata or Mario when it looked like Mario could fall to them. Obviously Mario or Ngata would have been the right choice in hindsight. (I should caveat that the Ngata talk was radio and with questionable credibility, but it looks good in hindsight)

 

[lod01]

Let's suppose Pacman is a free agent and Vince is as well. The Panthers can only sign one and need both a QB and a CB. (ignore anything you know of their roster)Who do you think they'd choose and why?

Are they forced to pick one? Then it would be Jones because if they pick Young, then they still need a QB and DB.

 

[lod01]

IIRC, Fisher wanted to draft defense not Leinart. He may have thought that Leinart was a better QB but I he wanted to draft a defensive end.........I forget his name at the moment.

No. Chow and fisher wanted leinart. Adams decided Thursday nugget that vy was going to be the guy. There were no defensive ends other then Williams that went top ten that year iirc. (Williams, bush, vy, Ferguson, hawk, Davis, huff...

There's a lot of misinformation out there, to the point I no longer am sure of what Fisher wanted. I had heard he wanted Cutler which made sense to me and seems to have been the consensus belief at the time, I also heard he wanted Ngata or Mario when it looked like Mario could fall to them. Obviously Mario or Ngata would have been the right choice in hindsight. (I should caveat that the Ngata talk was radio and with questionable credibility, but it looks good in hindsight)

Adams wanted to put butts in the seats and after the BCS championship, he saw a guy that was going to do that for him along with putting $ in his wallet. He's not a talent evaluator. He made a really bad decision. Meddling owners take teams down across the NFL.

 

[Mello]

When the QB is among the highest paid positions on your team, most owners want a QB to be the face of their organization. They are on the media program, constantly getting interviewed, etc. It's more than just playing the position on Sunday. If I was an owner I wouldn't consider Vince Young at this stage of his career. Way too many immature things continually keep coming up with him to be the face of my organization. Add that to a known horrible Wonderlic score and I do see most organizations passing here.

This is right on, IMO. What if Young melts down after a loss at the press Q and A? What if he decides to harm himself or others on the team as a result of a breakdown? The guy looks like pure poison to me given how 'on the edge' he seems to be in his personal/professional life.

:badposting:What you say may be true. If so, owners and GMs are shortsighted. All that matters is winning. That's what puts butts in the seats, sells concessions and merchandise, and makes people money. I can't think of an example where a QB was even moderately successful but off the field matters kept people away and hurt the team. If I'm the owner of a team with awful QBs like the Cardinals, Panthers, or Vikings, and I don't see another QB in free agency or the draft that is better than Vince Young, I don't see why I would rather start with Hall, Clausen, or Jackson than Young. If he melts down at a press conference, who cares? No one except the media. It awfully speculative that he would harm himself or others, but even if that happened, your back where you were before, with an awful QB.

Let's suppose Pacman is a free agent and Vince is as well. The Panthers can only sign one and need both a QB and a CB. (ignore anything you know of their roster)Who do you think they'd choose and why?

No idea who they would choose, but if it was my call, I'd choose Young. The QB position is far more important to the outcome of the game than the CB position. Not sure were your leading to here...

 

[Bri]

if it was my call, I'd choose Young. The QB position is far more important to the outcome of the game than the CB position. Not sure were your leading to here...

I thought you were disregarding Dodds' face of the franchise point and apparently you are. I set you up with two "bad press" players. That's fine if you don't feel it's important, but I do think that was the point being made. I didn't think it was "Vince isn't so bad" so I was just trying to clarify. Thanks, sorry for the sidetrack

 

[Bri]

Adams wanted to put butts in the seats and after the BCS championship, he saw a guy that was going to do that for him along with putting $ in his wallet. He's not a talent evaluator. He made a really bad decision. Meddling owners take teams down across the NFL.

I think it was a brilliant decision by a super impressive businessman that knows exactly what he's doing.He relocated a franchise from Houston to Tennessee where they played games at some odd places along the way. He signed an almost deity (Vince's popularity in Texas is/was just insane) from their former state. Their fan #s and sales #s are all way up and the interest in the Titans is probably at an all-time high in Tennessee. They are a solidified part of the community in TEN now and he brought in what he knows-the biggest star in Texas.

If Vince became a top NFL QB, that would have been great. No doubt. However, this was a very wise business decision.

IIRC He owned an Arena league team in TEN that didn't do well and eventually he sold and they moved away. Hang on...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bud_Adams

Read that link above. There were so few fans in Houston that they could hear the hits in the stands.

He's owned an NBA team and geesh he's like an old pioneer of the NFL or somesuch. He is so not Daniel Snyder or Jerry Jones that people make him out to be. In like 40? 50? years what has he made 5? personnel decisions. C'mon now.

See his Dad with President Truman. House Majority Whip losing a battle with Adams.

This is not just some average guy.

 

[Mello]

if it was my call, I'd choose Young. The QB position is far more important to the outcome of the game than the CB position. Not sure were your leading to here...

I thought you were disregarding Dodds' face of the franchise point and apparently you are. I set you up with two "bad press" players. That's fine if you don't feel it's important, but I do think that was the point being made. I didn't think it was "Vince isn't so bad" so I was just trying to clarify. Thanks, sorry for the sidetrack

I'm disregarding Dodds' face of the franchise point because it's intangible. It has no impact on the franchise whatsoever. Do you buy your season tickets based on how savvy the QB is at press conferences? I don't. Look at this year. Vick is probably the major example of a "bad press" QB. People were picketing outside of the stadium last year because they signed him. Many people swore off any team he was a part of. Yet, when Vick started playing awesomely and the Eagles were winning, the stadium was full and the Eagles were flexed into a primetime in large part because Vick and the success his team had would draw higher ratings. That leads me to believe that having your team win games is far more important to the franchise than having a QB that gets good press. Young isn't a great QB, but there are teams out there with QBs that are much worse. If they can't find a better option, I think they would be making a big mistake by passing on Young because of his personality issues. If he can get a team 1 or 2 more wins, that's going to be more positive than anything negative he could bring.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Trade Young for Leinart.

 

[lod01]

Adams wanted to put butts in the seats and after the BCS championship, he saw a guy that was going to do that for him along with putting $ in his wallet. He's not a talent evaluator. He made a really bad decision. Meddling owners take teams down across the NFL.

I think it was a brilliant decision by a super impressive businessman that knows exactly what he's doing.He relocated a franchise from Houston to Tennessee where they played games at some odd places along the way. He signed an almost deity (Vince's popularity in Texas is/was just insane) from their former state. Their fan #s and sales #s are all way up and the interest in the Titans is probably at an all-time high in Tennessee. They are a solidified part of the community in TEN now and he brought in what he knows-the biggest star in Texas.

If Vince became a top NFL QB, that would have been great. No doubt. However, this was a very wise business decision.

IIRC He owned an Arena league team in TEN that didn't do well and eventually he sold and they moved away. Hang on...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bud_Adams

Read that link above. There were so few fans in Houston that they could hear the hits in the stands.

He's owned an NBA team and geesh he's like an old pioneer of the NFL or somesuch. He is so not Daniel Snyder or Jerry Jones that people make him out to be. In like 40? 50? years what has he made 5? personnel decisions. C'mon now.

See his Dad with President Truman. House Majority Whip losing a battle with Adams.

This is not just some average guy.

Business wise, great move. What I was referring to was from the standpoint of winning Super Bowls. As soon as he picked Young his chances went to zero. Most of these guys have more $ than they could ever spend. The good ones collect hardware. The bad one line their pockets.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

if it was my call, I'd choose Young. The QB position is far more important to the outcome of the game than the CB position. Not sure were your leading to here...

I thought you were disregarding Dodds' face of the franchise point and apparently you are. I set you up with two "bad press" players. That's fine if you don't feel it's important, but I do think that was the point being made. I didn't think it was "Vince isn't so bad" so I was just trying to clarify. Thanks, sorry for the sidetrack

I'm disregarding Dodds' face of the franchise point because it's intangible. It has no impact on the franchise whatsoever. Do you buy your season tickets based on how savvy the QB is at press conferences? I don't. Look at this year. Vick is probably the major example of a "bad press" QB. People were picketing outside of the stadium last year because they signed him. Many people swore off any team he was a part of. Yet, when Vick started playing awesomely and the Eagles were winning, the stadium was full and the Eagles were flexed into a primetime in large part because Vick and the success his team had would draw higher ratings. That leads me to believe that having your team win games is far more important to the franchise than having a QB that gets good press. Young isn't a great QB, but there are teams out there with QBs that are much worse. If they can't find a better option, I think they would be making a big mistake by passing on Young because of his personality issues. If he can get a team 1 or 2 more wins, that's going to be more positive than anything negative he could bring.

 

[Bri]

Business wise, great move. What I was referring to was from the standpoint of winning Super Bowls. As soon as he picked Young his chances went to zero. Most of these guys have more $ than they could ever spend. The good ones collect hardware. The bad one line their pockets.

That's really not the case. We want it to be because we root for teams and all, but it just doesn't happen like that. Supe wins are so super rare. Also, the Oilers and Titans have always led fans to believe that they might not know how to build a team that will win it all. They spend more time replacing players than strengthening the team. They're a good NFL team now because they're drafting better. They regularly lose quality free agents and force Fish to turn a rook into a gem. It's machine-like with cogs and all, it doesn't really resemble building a team to win a Supe.Young's fantastic rookie year made people almost forget all the Titans had lost. McNair had left to Baltimore, Eddie George had been run into the ground, they had a couple awesome linemen retire. The turnover around that time could have led to a long drought where they were always rebuilding. The Niners still haven't recovered from when Steve Young and a slew of guys retired. I mentioned Fisher doing such a great job with rooks- I really think that year was a super tough year that they somehow got through it OK and avoided a sorta implosion oh so many franchises go through. They were like 1-7 or somesuch and looked like a team that just lost most of their great players. He rattled off like 7 of 8 wins or 8 of 9 and I really think that was big.

 

[Ice Cream Man]

Business wise, great move. What I was referring to was from the standpoint of winning Super Bowls. As soon as he picked Young his chances went to zero. Most of these guys have more $ than they could ever spend. The good ones collect hardware. The bad one line their pockets.

That's really not the case. We want it to be because we root for teams and all, but it just doesn't happen like that. Supe wins are so super rare. Also, the Oilers and Titans have always led fans to believe that they might not know how to build a team that will win it all. They spend more time replacing players than strengthening the team. They're a good NFL team now because they're drafting better. They regularly lose quality free agents and force Fish to turn a rook into a gem. It's machine-like with cogs and all, it doesn't really resemble building a team to win a Supe.

Young's fantastic rookie year made people almost forget all the Titans had lost. McNair had left to Baltimore, Eddie George had been run into the ground, they had a couple awesome linemen retire. The turnover around that time could have led to a long drought where they were always rebuilding. The Niners still haven't recovered from when Steve Young and a slew of guys retired. I mentioned Fisher doing such a great job with rooks- I really think that year was a super tough year that they somehow got through it OK and avoided a sorta implosion oh so many franchises go through.

They were like 1-7 or somesuch and looked like a team that just lost most of their great players. He rattled off like 7 of 8 wins or 8 of 9 and I really think that was big.

Except VY blew it in the one game that year that would have put them into the playoffs. Don't you remember?I fully expect VY to resurface and potentially grow into a consistent QB but, for all his "wins," he has not shown the ability to win against good teams on this level. I think VY has managed exactly 1 win against an good team in his entire career with the Titans (a 20-17 win over the Colts in 2006 which was won by a 60 yard field goal).

As a Titans fan it has been painful to watch his inconsistency over these years -- a team like the Titans, whose philosophy is ball control, needs a consistent leader who can game manage a run-first offense.

 

[Abraham]

fully expect VY to resurface and potentially grow into a consistent QB

I don't. I think he will end up somewhere "competing" for the job, not win it, back someone up for two or three year then come back to Austin to manage his steakhouse.

 

[cvnpoka]

theres a lot of false narrative itt, mainly that vince young hasnt been a good qb.

 

[Lobary]

There were so few fans in Houston that they could hear the hits in the stands.

Uh, you have no clue what you are talking about. You obviously know nothing about the numerous stunts Bud pulled on the fans of Houston, nor how he gutted the team following the last playoff loss in 1994. The story of how the Oilers came to be the Titans is a long one deserving of a 30 for 30 documentary. I grew up in the era of the Luv Ya Blue Oilers, with Earl Campbell as my own personal jesus. The Oilers were immensely popular in Houston and to this day continue to provoke strong emotional responses from their legions of diehard fans that piece of trash Bud Adams screwed over when he sold out to the hillbillies in Tennessee. The statement above could not be further from the truth.

 

[guderian]

Interesting.

On the day former Titans assistant Craig Johnson was hired as new quarterbacks coach of the Minnesota Vikings, a big question followed him:Will Vince Young eventually join him?Johnson, who left the Titans after 11 seasons, is ready for it. The Titans plan to release Young if he's not traded, and even before Johnson joined the Vikings, many had Minnesota pegged as a possible landing spot for the quarterback."I know that question is going to be coming. So my answer is going to be this: I do have a relationship with Vince, a long relationship with him. But the head coach and ownership and the offensive coordinator of the Minnesota Vikings — they're the ones that are going to make the decision. The assistant coaches coach,'' Johnson said."I am sure they'll do due diligence on Vince, and every quarterback that is going to be available on the market is going to be discussed. I know it is going to be discussed, and I'll put my two cents worth on him because obviously I have more of a relationship with him that most. And then whatever decision is going to be made will be made. Obviously I have a good working relationship with Vince, and he produced pretty well under me.'Johnson spent eight seasons as quarterbacks coach of the Titans before moving to running backs coach last season. He'll join new Minnesota Coach Leslie Frazier's staff as quarterbacks coach under new offensive coordinator Bill Musgrave.Despite the fact Young fell out of favor in Tennessee, it's safe to say Johnson still believes in him. Young posted a 30-18 mark as a starter with the Titans. Johnson helped develop Steve McNair during his co-MVP season of 2003, and he worked with Young in 2006 when he was the NFL's Rookie of the Year.Johnson said he's remained in touch with Young in recent weeks and said the two have a good relationship. The only quarterback the Vikings are currently scheduled to have under contract for 2011 is Joe Webb."I think (Vince's) future is still to be written. What I would officially say about him, and what needs to happen about him, is in the big picture he needs to be known and thought of more for what's happened on the field than what's happened off the field. I think that is true of him and any quarterback,'' Johnson said.

 

[az_prof]

I think a terrible Wonderlic is a bad sign of intelligence and a poor ability to learn. It means that your ability to pickup new information is hampered in some way (perhaps how much you care thus far). But it's not a final indicator of your football success. Just like a high score on the Wonderlic doesn't mean you'll be successful in football. You may have a higher degree of intelligence up to this point, and your ability to learn new information is faster, but that could all be thrown out the window with a 6'6" 287 lb outside linebacker is coming at you with 4.5 speed unblocked.I for one do NOT want to entertain the ID of VY going to the Eagles. His winning record may will open up some opportunities that may have been closed otherwise, but I won't try to speculate on how is record came to pass. I haven't researched his turn over ratio, the run to pass ratio when he was a starter, the opponents record at the time, or some insiders knowledge to how complex the passing offense was.

Why don't they create a Football wonderlic? Give the guy a basic playbook and three hours to look it over; quiz him on it. Then show him film and ask him to break down the coverage and the reads. It doesn't seem impossible to create a football intelligence quiz rather than a general one. If I were a GM I would definitely be working on that and wouldn't draft any Qb who refused to take it.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I think a terrible Wonderlic is a bad sign of intelligence and a poor ability to learn. It means that your ability to pickup new information is hampered in some way (perhaps how much you care thus far). But it's not a final indicator of your football success. Just like a high score on the Wonderlic doesn't mean you'll be successful in football. You may have a higher degree of intelligence up to this point, and your ability to learn new information is faster, but that could all be thrown out the window with a 6'6" 287 lb outside linebacker is coming at you with 4.5 speed unblocked.I for one do NOT want to entertain the ID of VY going to the Eagles. His winning record may will open up some opportunities that may have been closed otherwise, but I won't try to speculate on how is record came to pass. I haven't researched his turn over ratio, the run to pass ratio when he was a starter, the opponents record at the time, or some insiders knowledge to how complex the passing offense was.

Why don't they create a Football wonderlic? Give the guy a basic playbook and three hours to look it over; quiz him on it. Then show him film and ask him to break down the coverage and the reads. It doesn't seem impossible to create a football intelligence quiz rather than a general one. If I were a GM I would definitely be working on that and wouldn't draft any Qb who refused to take it.

I think you just described what happens when they bring a player in before the draft. I don't think its 3 hours with the playbook, but they do check their ability to learn plays and put them back on the chalkboard. I think a lot of people are going to be proven wrong in this thread. VY has the talent to be a top notch QB in the NFL. When teams start looking at these QBs in the draft, the appeal of VY is going to go up dramatically.

 

[Runningman]

How could this be shocking news? Dude is a mental case.

 

[Buckna]

fully expect VY to resurface and potentially grow into a consistent QB

I don't. I think he will end up somewhere "competing" for the job, not win it, back someone up for two or three year then come back to Austin to manage his steakhouse.

My guess is someone with a huge whole at QB signs him to be a starter this year and he does what he always has done. Be maddingly inconsistent showing enough promise most of the time to keep him on with some spectacular wins and then absolutely outright sucking in some games and melting down.

 

[Ksquared]

I really believe the NFL uses the wonderlic as a "pressure" test where the hardest part is completing the test in the allotted time. What I have observed over the last ten years where the draftees scores seem to leak out is the high scores means there is not a red flag for mental processing under pressure (but does not guarantee any kind of on the field success). The low score can come from someone with a lack of knowledge, lack of reading ability, or a problem mentally processing things quickly under pressure. Especially for certain positions, a low score means little. Of course the biggest struggle many QBs have is processing the information they see quickly, correctly, and making the proper decision at the moment. I do believe a low wonderlic for QBs means if their athleticism cannot buy them some years, they will be a back up for several years trying to develop experience to handle the mental speed the game takes.

 

[jackdubl]

I was listening to a radio interview with Kevin Mawae, who implied that Vince Young's biggest problem is that he's functionally illiterate. He said he can't correctly read plays off his wristband, and often called the wrong play after it was called in. He said the offense had to know the situation and the expected playcall, and that usually they could correct it, but sometimes they couldn't. He said Young was a great athlete but that he didn't think any team could win with him at QB.

Wow

Whatver, Mawae.

Uh, anybody read any of Vince's tweets? He is utterly illiterate. When I read what he wrote I was like, how can you even talk to him on the sidelines? How can he be a QB with such a horrific grasp of the English language? Not surprised by Mawae's comments in the least.

 

[Andrew Garda]

How could this be shocking news? Dude is a mental case.

I caught flack in another thread when I countered a comparison between VY and Sanchez (and why they were different) by pointing out Sanchez works hard, has a great work ethic and is a leader on and off the field. I was told that this was PR spin, VY got a bad rap from his coach and Sanchez had better PR people. And while that last part is true, the rest highlights what many people do with Young - continue to make excuses for his underperforming ways despite multiple reports he just doesn't have the drive and mental toughness to be a starter.He does, however, win. Mostly. Or often. OK, sometimes.