"Catching Hell" ESPN Bartman Documentary (1 Viewer)

[Tom Servo]

GB not being a fan of any team. I bet the games, win/lose then move on with my week. Amazing how people treat teams like it's a part of their lives. Sad really.

Wow, why don't you two have a seat over there in the sactimonious box with Rick Reilly?

Fan of team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gambling degenerate

"de·gen·er·ate/diˈjenərit/Adjective: Having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable; showing evidence of decline."This sounds like more Fans that I know then gamblers. I lose a few bucks on a game, no big deal next week is another bet. Your Team loses and it ruins your week.

Between this & Goggins trying to play cute with my misspelling of sanctimonious, you two are trying way too hard here. When my team loses, it sucks, but my week is not ruined. HTH.

 

[AmosMoses]

Watched this tonight. I felt like I was watching the 21st century version of the JFK assassination. Crazy story and make Cubs fans look really bad, but they do a good job of that by themselves.

Agree. Why not blame the players? They had lots of chances afterwards to make plays.

That's what people with loser mentalities do. They create scapegoats.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Sports radio in Chicago today is fantastic.

'I remember it like it was yesterday'

One guy texted in and said they replayed the play itself 79 times in the documentary. 79 times

That had to be painful for Cubs fans to endure.

 

[Mello]

It was a decent and way too long show. I feel bad for Bartman, but don't blame the fans and media for the reaction. Mistakes come with consequences. He's not a scapegoat. The momentum completely changed on that play and there's a good chance the Cubs win the series if Alou catches that. Every mistake after it was connected to that one play.

 

[Eephus]

So, if you hate the Cubs and/or their fans, that's fine, but the truth of the matter is is that you have no frame of reference, and you have no idea what it's like. Bottom line: Did Bartman lose the game, and did he deserve the treatment he received? Not at all. Was it the turning point that caused the collapse? Definitely. Should there have been more about the Cubs over the years and the reason why the team and the fans were/are under so much pressure, and less about the Red Sox and preachers saying "3 to oh"? Absoultely.Haters feel free to flame away.

The near century of failure has some historical significance but there aren't many people alive who still remember the 1945 Series. Cubs fans aren't as unique as you make them out to be. Other teams have collapsed or come close repeatedly. The romanticism of Cubs and Red Sox fans is what turns a lot of neutrals off. You make it sound like the Cubs are the only bad team in the world.

 

[AmosMoses]

Was watching the show with my wife..I felt really bad for Bill Buckner, you can see he is a broken man. It is amazing at how one booted ground ball can ruin a career and a life. Seems like he is on the verge of tears all the time. Then the fans carrying the sign 20 years later saying "Bill Buckner we forgive you" I know they meant well but it probably made Buckner feel even worse. Buckner seems like a really good guy..it was very sad.

I don't feel bad for him. He can walk into any bar in any part of NYC and get drinks on the house for life. Dude is a celebrity.

 

[Limp Ditka]

So, if you hate the Cubs and/or their fans, that's fine, but the truth of the matter is is that you have no frame of reference, and you have no idea what it's like. Bottom line: Did Bartman lose the game, and did he deserve the treatment he received? Not at all. Was it the turning point that caused the collapse? Definitely. Should there have been more about the Cubs over the years and the reason why the team and the fans were/are under so much pressure, and less about the Red Sox and preachers saying "3 to oh"? Absoultely.Haters feel free to flame away.

The near century of failure has some historical significance but there aren't many people alive who still remember the 1945 Series. Cubs fans aren't as unique as you make them out to be. Other teams have collapsed or come close repeatedly. The romanticism of Cubs and Red Sox fans is what turns a lot of neutrals off. You make it sound like the Cubs are the only bad team in the world.

Take the Washington Generals for example.

 

[AmosMoses]

GB not being a fan of any team. I bet the games, win/lose then move on with my week. Amazing how people treat teams like it's a part of their lives. Sad really.

I don't think you are being truthful. You are a huge fan of UT.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I don't believe Bartman affected the outcome of that game at all. I do believe the fans response to Bartman played a role, however, in changing the outcome.

 

[Tom Servo]

It's real easy to judge the Cubs and their fans if you are not one, or if you hate them. Did Bartman himself blow the game? Of course not. Did he deserve to have beer thrown on him and be called ##### and receive death threats? Of course not. Are Cubs fans 99.999999% of the time that big of dooshes? I say no. You probably think differently if you hate the team and/or their fans. But unless you are a Cubs fan, and have been one your whole life, you really have no frame of reference what it's like. You have no idea what it feels like to have your team out of it by the end of June. You have no idea the pressure that builds upon the team and the fans on the unlikely event that they do make the postseason. You have no idea what it's like for not only you, but your father, and maybe even your grandfather never seeing them win it all. Are they really cursed? Tough to say. But bagging on the fans because the minute the Bartman incident happened, the air went out of the stadium.....well, once again, you have no frame of reference. So, if you hate the Cubs and/or their fans, that's fine, but the truth of the matter is is that you have no frame of reference, and you have no idea what it's like. Bottom line: Did Bartman lose the game, and did he deserve the treatment he received? Not at all. Was it the turning point that caused the collapse? Definitely. Should there have been more about the Cubs over the years and the reason why the team and the fans were/are under so much pressure, and less about the Red Sox and preachers saying "3 to oh"? Absoultely.Haters feel free to flame away.

I'm an Indians fan; I really don't want to hear it. You guys get love because you are "loveable" losers. The Indians are just losers; you get love and quaint stories/coverage from the sports media and we get 3 ####ty movies made about us and how much we suck.We have the 2nd longest WS drought behind you guys...think about who the 2nd man to walk on the moon was. Nobody knows that. I've put up with 5 100+ loss seasons since I became an Indians fan. I seen everyone from Lou Pinella and Chris Chambliss to CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee traded away for basically boxes of jockstraps. You play in the "Friendly Confines"; I spent many years going to the Mistake by the Lake where I had to wear a jacket to night games in June or else I'd freeze to death. Only a long-time Indian fans knows how to start a rally by banging the empty seats on either side of you because there's only 8,000 people in a stadium meant to hold 10X that amount. Fortunately, Progressive Field is much better.Indians fans don't go around waiting for something to happen. When things are good (like the 90s), they come out and cheer themselves hoarse. When they suck, they beef about how much the team sucks and all the losing. You don't hear much "Woe is Us" talk in Cleveland.Really, take your self-martyrdom and shove it. I don't care.

 

[pantherclub]

Sports radio in Chicago today is fantastic.

'I remember it like it was yesterday'

One guy texted in and said they replayed the play itself 79 times in the documentary. 79 times

That had to be painful for Cubs fans to endure.

Why? It didnt cost them the game or the series. Cub fans are crazy.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

So, if you hate the Cubs and/or their fans, that's fine, but the truth of the matter is is that you have no frame of reference, and you have no idea what it's like. Bottom line: Did Bartman lose the game, and did he deserve the treatment he received? Not at all. Was it the turning point that caused the collapse? Definitely. Should there have been more about the Cubs over the years and the reason why the team and the fans were/are under so much pressure, and less about the Red Sox and preachers saying "3 to oh"? Absoultely.Haters feel free to flame away.

The near century of failure has some historical significance but there aren't many people alive who still remember the 1945 Series. Cubs fans aren't as unique as you make them out to be. Other teams have collapsed or come close repeatedly. The romanticism of Cubs and Red Sox fans is what turns a lot of neutrals off. You make it sound like the Cubs are the only bad team in the world.

Very true, but they are the only one with over 100 years of futility. And it was a show about them, supposedly.

 

[Walton Goggins]

It was a decent and way too long show. I feel bad for Bartman, but don't blame the fans and media for the reaction. Mistakes come with consequences. He's not a scapegoat. The momentum completely changed on that play and there's a good chance the Cubs win the series if Alou catches that. Every mistake after it was connected to that one play.

I disagree, the Cubs are losers and it's telling that just because one out wasn't potentially made with a lead in the game, with a lead in the series and even another game at home, I would say it's a good chance regardless if that out was made or not the Cubs would have lost the series. They were wound so tight and have a loser mentality that all it took was something to go wrong then it was done. Prior through Gonzo folded like a cheap suit. Did you see many freaking runs were scored in the 8th by the Marlins? Shows Marlins were clearly the better team.Wonder why they didn't talk about Yankee fans being upset that the Marlins played them in the WS vs. Cubs. Would have been another WS championship if that had happened. The Cubs would have been mental midgets in a WS vs the Yanks.

Finally, there are teams/cities out there that have gone through long losing streaks or never have won anything so to Cub fans.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

It's real easy to judge the Cubs and their fans if you are not one, or if you hate them. Did Bartman himself blow the game? Of course not. Did he deserve to have beer thrown on him and be called ##### and receive death threats? Of course not. Are Cubs fans 99.999999% of the time that big of dooshes? I say no. You probably think differently if you hate the team and/or their fans. But unless you are a Cubs fan, and have been one your whole life, you really have no frame of reference what it's like. You have no idea what it feels like to have your team out of it by the end of June. You have no idea the pressure that builds upon the team and the fans on the unlikely event that they do make the postseason. You have no idea what it's like for not only you, but your father, and maybe even your grandfather never seeing them win it all. Are they really cursed? Tough to say. But bagging on the fans because the minute the Bartman incident happened, the air went out of the stadium.....well, once again, you have no frame of reference. So, if you hate the Cubs and/or their fans, that's fine, but the truth of the matter is is that you have no frame of reference, and you have no idea what it's like. Bottom line: Did Bartman lose the game, and did he deserve the treatment he received? Not at all. Was it the turning point that caused the collapse? Definitely. Should there have been more about the Cubs over the years and the reason why the team and the fans were/are under so much pressure, and less about the Red Sox and preachers saying "3 to oh"? Absoultely.Haters feel free to flame away.

I'm an Indians fan; I really don't want to hear it. You guys get love because you are "loveable" losers. The Indians are just losers; you get love and quaint stories/coverage from the sports media and we get 3 ####ty movies made about us and how much we suck.We have the 2nd longest WS drought behind you guys...think about who the 2nd man to walk on the moon was. Nobody knows that. I've put up with 5 100+ loss seasons since I became an Indians fan. I seen everyone from Lou Pinella and Chris Chambliss to CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee traded away for basically boxes of jockstraps. You play in the "Friendly Confines"; I spent many years going to the Mistake by the Lake where I had to wear a jacket to night games in June or else I'd freeze to death. Only a long-time Indian fans knows how to start a rally by banging the empty seats on either side of you because there's only 8,000 people in a stadium meant to hold 10X that amount. Fortunately, Progressive Field is much better.Indians fans don't go around waiting for something to happen. When things are good (like the 90s), they come out and cheer themselves hoarse. When they suck, they beef about how much the team sucks and all the losing. You don't hear much "Woe is Us" talk in Cleveland.Really, take your self-martyrdom and shove it. I don't care.

You don't care, but felt the need to write a diatribe flaming me and Cubs fans? And have you won a World Series? Then shut up. You have no frame of reference.

 

[AmosMoses]

It was a decent and way too long show. I feel bad for Bartman, but don't blame the fans and media for the reaction. Mistakes come with consequences. He's not a scapegoat. The momentum completely changed on that play and there's a good chance the Cubs win the series if Alou catches that. Every mistake after it was connected to that one play.

How is he not a scapegoat again? The only reason that play is recalled is because the fans and the team let it get into their head. That's their fault, that's the fault of a weak willed, choking team, not Bartman's.

 

[Limp Ditka]

It's real easy to judge the Cubs and their fans if you are not one, or if you hate them. Did Bartman himself blow the game? Of course not. Did he deserve to have beer thrown on him and be called ##### and receive death threats? Of course not. Are Cubs fans 99.999999% of the time that big of dooshes? I say no. You probably think differently if you hate the team and/or their fans. But unless you are a Cubs fan, and have been one your whole life, you really have no frame of reference what it's like. You have no idea what it feels like to have your team out of it by the end of June. You have no idea the pressure that builds upon the team and the fans on the unlikely event that they do make the postseason. You have no idea what it's like for not only you, but your father, and maybe even your grandfather never seeing them win it all. Are they really cursed? Tough to say. But bagging on the fans because the minute the Bartman incident happened, the air went out of the stadium.....well, once again, you have no frame of reference.

So, if you hate the Cubs and/or their fans, that's fine, but the truth of the matter is is that you have no frame of reference, and you have no idea what it's like. Bottom line: Did Bartman lose the game, and did he deserve the treatment he received? Not at all. Was it the turning point that caused the collapse? Definitely. Should there have been more about the Cubs over the years and the reason why the team and the fans were/are under so much pressure, and less about the Red Sox and preachers saying "3 to oh"? Absoultely.

Haters feel free to flame away.

I'm an Indians fan; I really don't want to hear it. You guys get love because you are "loveable" losers. The Indians are just losers; you get love and quaint stories/coverage from the sports media and we get 3 ####ty movies made about us and how much we suck.We have the 2nd longest WS drought behind you guys...think about who the 2nd man to walk on the moon was. Nobody knows that. I've put up with 5 100+ loss seasons since I became an Indians fan. I seen everyone from Lou Pinella and Chris Chambliss to CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee traded away for basically boxes of jockstraps. You play in the "Friendly Confines"; I spent many years going to the Mistake by the Lake where I had to wear a jacket to night games in June or else I'd freeze to death. Only a long-time Indian fans knows how to start a rally by banging the empty seats on either side of you because there's only 8,000 people in a stadium meant to hold 10X that amount. Fortunately, Progressive Field is much better.

Indians fans don't go around waiting for something to happen. When things are good (like the 90s), they come out and cheer themselves hoarse. When they suck, they beef about how much the team sucks and all the losing. You don't hear much "Woe is Us" talk in Cleveland.

Really, take your self-martyrdom and shove it. I don't care.

You don't care, but felt the need to write a diatribe flaming me and Cubs fans? And have you won a World Series? Then shut up. You have no frame of reference.

1908 down?

 

[Keys Myaths]

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

You're kidding right. It would have been just the second out of the inning in game 6 they lead 3-0 at the time. The collapse is all on the players.

People think that ball was clearly foul? No one thinks Alou would have made that catch? If it were that obvious I don't think 50,000 folks at the stadium that night would have been chanting #######. The fans have spoken and it's clearly Bartman's fault. Who are we to really question Cubs fans? They've suffered enough. That's guilt you see on Bartman's face not sadness.

HFS

 

[Wrigley]

It was a decent and way too long show. I feel bad for Bartman, but don't blame the fans and media for the reaction. Mistakes come with consequences. He's not a scapegoat. The momentum completely changed on that play and there's a good chance the Cubs win the series if Alou catches that. Every mistake after it was connected to that one play.

I disagree, the Cubs are losers and it's telling that just because one out wasn't potentially made with a lead in the game, with a lead in the series and even another game at home, I would say it's a good chance regardless if that out was made or not the Cubs would have lost the series. They were wound so tight and have a loser mentality that all it took was something to go wrong then it was done. Prior through Gonzo folded like a cheap suit. Did you see many freaking runs were scored in the 8th by the Marlins? Shows Marlins were clearly the better team.Wonder why they didn't talk about Yankee fans being upset that the Marlins played them in the WS vs. Cubs. Would have been another WS championship if that had happened. The Cubs would have been mental midgets in a WS vs the Yanks.

Finally, there are teams/cities out there that have gone through long losing streaks or never have won anything so to Cub fans.

Name one other team that has gone 100 years without winning it all......just one.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

.........in your lifetime?

 

[McJose]

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

You're kidding right. It would have been just the second out of the inning in game 6 they lead 3-0 at the time. The collapse is all on the players.

People think that ball was clearly foul? No one thinks Alou would have made that catch? If it were that obvious I don't think 50,000 folks at the stadium that night would have been chanting #######. The fans have spoken and it's clearly Bartman's fault. Who are we to really question Cubs fans? They've suffered enough. That's guilt you see on Bartman's face not sadness.

HFS

 

[Walton Goggins]

GB not being a fan of any team. I bet the games, win/lose then move on with my week. Amazing how people treat teams like it's a part of their lives. Sad really.

I don't think you are being truthful. You are a huge fan of UT.

As I mentioned earlier I should have bolded the last part. I root for certain teams but certainly doesn't determine my life. By the way, I'm a Stros, Oilers/Texans fan so I know a lot about what it's like to pull for losers (and went to Baylor). About the only winning while growing up were the Rockets. Did the Oilers blowing that huge lead hurt vs. Bills? Sure. Astros swept in the WS? Sure. But if I ever acted like some of the people on the documentary I'd personally would want someone to shoot me in the head. I've got too many more important things in my life to have teams I pull for rule my life or define me. It's not as if I still go around talking about the Rockets winning championships either.

 

[Limp Ditka]

.........in your lifetime?

I'm going to go out on a limb an guess that Servo wasn't alive in 1948.you're coming across as grossly misinformed here, which is par for the course when it comes to most Cub fans.

 

[Mello]

I disagree, the Cubs are losers and it's telling that just because one out wasn't potentially made with a lead in the game, with a lead in the series and even another game at home, I would say it's a good chance regardless if that out was made or not the Cubs would have lost the series. They were wound so tight and have a loser mentality that all it took was something to go wrong then it was done. Prior through Gonzo folded like a cheap suit. Did you see many freaking runs were scored in the 8th by the Marlins? Shows Marlins were clearly the better team.

Exactly, and they folded as soon as Bartman kept Alou from catching the ball. The team wasn't able to overcome it. I see no reason why fans should ignore the catalyst and focus on the aftermath.

 

[Walton Goggins]

It was a decent and way too long show. I feel bad for Bartman, but don't blame the fans and media for the reaction. Mistakes come with consequences. He's not a scapegoat. The momentum completely changed on that play and there's a good chance the Cubs win the series if Alou catches that. Every mistake after it was connected to that one play.

I disagree, the Cubs are losers and it's telling that just because one out wasn't potentially made with a lead in the game, with a lead in the series and even another game at home, I would say it's a good chance regardless if that out was made or not the Cubs would have lost the series. They were wound so tight and have a loser mentality that all it took was something to go wrong then it was done. Prior through Gonzo folded like a cheap suit. Did you see many freaking runs were scored in the 8th by the Marlins? Shows Marlins were clearly the better team.Wonder why they didn't talk about Yankee fans being upset that the Marlins played them in the WS vs. Cubs. Would have been another WS championship if that had happened. The Cubs would have been mental midgets in a WS vs the Yanks.

Finally, there are teams/cities out there that have gone through long losing streaks or never have won anything so to Cub fans.

Name one other team that has gone 100 years without winning it all......just one.

Unless you have lived 100 years that's irrelevant. People I know who are around my age or younger could be Yankee fans but the ones that count in your mind are the ones you remember.If you say BS then fine at least as a Cub fan you've won a WS, right? How about the teams that's never won one?

 

[Wrigley]

.........in your lifetime?

I'm going to go out on a limb an guess that Servo wasn't alive in 1948.you're coming across as grossly misinformed here, which is par for the course when it comes to most Cub fans.

It should be pointed out, that Limpy was a Cub fan when "the play" happened.

 

[Walton Goggins]

Cubs have won a WS so #### cry babies

Signed,

Al the teams that haven't won a WS

 

[Wrigley]

It was a decent and way too long show. I feel bad for Bartman, but don't blame the fans and media for the reaction. Mistakes come with consequences. He's not a scapegoat. The momentum completely changed on that play and there's a good chance the Cubs win the series if Alou catches that. Every mistake after it was connected to that one play.

I disagree, the Cubs are losers and it's telling that just because one out wasn't potentially made with a lead in the game, with a lead in the series and even another game at home, I would say it's a good chance regardless if that out was made or not the Cubs would have lost the series. They were wound so tight and have a loser mentality that all it took was something to go wrong then it was done. Prior through Gonzo folded like a cheap suit. Did you see many freaking runs were scored in the 8th by the Marlins? Shows Marlins were clearly the better team.Wonder why they didn't talk about Yankee fans being upset that the Marlins played them in the WS vs. Cubs. Would have been another WS championship if that had happened. The Cubs would have been mental midgets in a WS vs the Yanks.

Finally, there are teams/cities out there that have gone through long losing streaks or never have won anything so to Cub fans.

Name one other team that has gone 100 years without winning it all......just one.

Unless you have lived 100 years that's irrelevant. People I know who are around my age or younger could be Yankee fans but the ones that count in your mind are the ones you remember.If you say BS then fine at least as a Cub fan you've won a WS, right? How about the teams that's never won one?

I say BS then.

 

[Limp Ditka]

.........in your lifetime?

I'm going to go out on a limb an guess that Servo wasn't alive in 1948.you're coming across as grossly misinformed here, which is par for the course when it comes to most Cub fans.

It should be pointed out, that Limpy was a Cub fan when "the play" happened.

This happened in 1999? Damn.... that doc was worse than I thought.

 

[JZilla]

Good lord the bottom feeders have certainly trashed this thread

 

[Walton Goggins]

It was a decent and way too long show. I feel bad for Bartman, but don't blame the fans and media for the reaction. Mistakes come with consequences. He's not a scapegoat. The momentum completely changed on that play and there's a good chance the Cubs win the series if Alou catches that. Every mistake after it was connected to that one play.

I disagree, the Cubs are losers and it's telling that just because one out wasn't potentially made with a lead in the game, with a lead in the series and even another game at home, I would say it's a good chance regardless if that out was made or not the Cubs would have lost the series. They were wound so tight and have a loser mentality that all it took was something to go wrong then it was done. Prior through Gonzo folded like a cheap suit. Did you see many freaking runs were scored in the 8th by the Marlins? Shows Marlins were clearly the better team.Wonder why they didn't talk about Yankee fans being upset that the Marlins played them in the WS vs. Cubs. Would have been another WS championship if that had happened. The Cubs would have been mental midgets in a WS vs the Yanks.

Finally, there are teams/cities out there that have gone through long losing streaks or never have won anything so to Cub fans.

Name one other team that has gone 100 years without winning it all......just one.

Unless you have lived 100 years that's irrelevant. People I know who are around my age or younger could be Yankee fans but the ones that count in your mind are the ones you remember.If you say BS then fine at least as a Cub fan you've won a WS, right? How about the teams that's never won one?

I say BS then.

Then you've won a WS so stop the crying. Lots of other people out there would love to have one WS from their team.

 

[Tom Servo]

It's real easy to judge the Cubs and their fans if you are not one, or if you hate them. Did Bartman himself blow the game? Of course not. Did he deserve to have beer thrown on him and be called ##### and receive death threats? Of course not. Are Cubs fans 99.999999% of the time that big of dooshes? I say no. You probably think differently if you hate the team and/or their fans. But unless you are a Cubs fan, and have been one your whole life, you really have no frame of reference what it's like. You have no idea what it feels like to have your team out of it by the end of June. You have no idea the pressure that builds upon the team and the fans on the unlikely event that they do make the postseason. You have no idea what it's like for not only you, but your father, and maybe even your grandfather never seeing them win it all. Are they really cursed? Tough to say. But bagging on the fans because the minute the Bartman incident happened, the air went out of the stadium.....well, once again, you have no frame of reference.

So, if you hate the Cubs and/or their fans, that's fine, but the truth of the matter is is that you have no frame of reference, and you have no idea what it's like. Bottom line: Did Bartman lose the game, and did he deserve the treatment he received? Not at all. Was it the turning point that caused the collapse? Definitely. Should there have been more about the Cubs over the years and the reason why the team and the fans were/are under so much pressure, and less about the Red Sox and preachers saying "3 to oh"? Absoultely.

Haters feel free to flame away.

I'm an Indians fan; I really don't want to hear it. You guys get love because you are "loveable" losers. The Indians are just losers; you get love and quaint stories/coverage from the sports media and we get 3 ####ty movies made about us and how much we suck.We have the 2nd longest WS drought behind you guys...think about who the 2nd man to walk on the moon was. Nobody knows that. I've put up with 5 100+ loss seasons since I became an Indians fan. I seen everyone from Lou Pinella and Chris Chambliss to CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee traded away for basically boxes of jockstraps. You play in the "Friendly Confines"; I spent many years going to the Mistake by the Lake where I had to wear a jacket to night games in June or else I'd freeze to death. Only a long-time Indian fans knows how to start a rally by banging the empty seats on either side of you because there's only 8,000 people in a stadium meant to hold 10X that amount. Fortunately, Progressive Field is much better.

Indians fans don't go around waiting for something to happen. When things are good (like the 90s), they come out and cheer themselves hoarse. When they suck, they beef about how much the team sucks and all the losing. You don't hear much "Woe is Us" talk in Cleveland.

Really, take your self-martyrdom and shove it. I don't care.

You don't care, but felt the need to write a diatribe flaming me and Cubs fans? And have you won a World Series? Then shut up. You have no frame of reference.

FTR, our last WS WIN was 1948. Thus, I do have a frame of reference. Oh, and you gave me the invitation; remember these words?

Haters feel free to flame away.

 

[whoknew]

I Are they really cursed? Tough to say. But bagging on the fans because the minute the Bartman incident happened, the air went out of the stadium.....well, once again, you have no frame of reference.

I don't mean to take what you wrote out of context, but what you wrote was really long.Anyway, its not tough to say whether the Cubs are cursed or not. Know why? Because there's no such thing as curses. The Cubs just stink. And sometimes get a little unlucky. But most of their problems come from bad ownership, management, decisions and players. Not some silly billygoat or whatever.

 

[Tom Servo]

.........in your lifetime?

I'm going to go out on a limb an guess that Servo wasn't alive in 1948.you're coming across as grossly misinformed here, which is par for the course when it comes to most Cub fans.

Heck, my dad was 8 when this happened...way to go out on that limb there Limpy. Further, I see your Bartman in 2003 and raise you JOSE FREAKING MESA in 1997.

 

[Mello]

It was a decent and way too long show. I feel bad for Bartman, but don't blame the fans and media for the reaction. Mistakes come with consequences. He's not a scapegoat. The momentum completely changed on that play and there's a good chance the Cubs win the series if Alou catches that. Every mistake after it was connected to that one play.

How is he not a scapegoat again? The only reason that play is recalled is because the fans and the team let it get into their head. That's their fault, that's the fault of a weak willed, choking team, not Bartman's.

He's only a scapegoat if you believe that his actions had nothing to do with the change in momentum of that game. That things would have played out the same without his mistake. Obviously there's no way to know, but I don't think so. I'm not saying the players were blameless.

 

[Limp Ditka]

It was a decent and way too long show. I feel bad for Bartman, but don't blame the fans and media for the reaction. Mistakes come with consequences. He's not a scapegoat. The momentum completely changed on that play and there's a good chance the Cubs win the series if Alou catches that. Every mistake after it was connected to that one play.

I disagree, the Cubs are losers and it's telling that just because one out wasn't potentially made with a lead in the game, with a lead in the series and even another game at home, I would say it's a good chance regardless if that out was made or not the Cubs would have lost the series. They were wound so tight and have a loser mentality that all it took was something to go wrong then it was done. Prior through Gonzo folded like a cheap suit. Did you see many freaking runs were scored in the 8th by the Marlins? Shows Marlins were clearly the better team.Wonder why they didn't talk about Yankee fans being upset that the Marlins played them in the WS vs. Cubs. Would have been another WS championship if that had happened. The Cubs would have been mental midgets in a WS vs the Yanks.

Finally, there are teams/cities out there that have gone through long losing streaks or never have won anything so to Cub fans.

Name one other team that has gone 100 years without winning it all......just one.

Unless you have lived 100 years that's irrelevant. People I know who are around my age or younger could be Yankee fans but the ones that count in your mind are the ones you remember.If you say BS then fine at least as a Cub fan you've won a WS, right? How about the teams that's never won one?

I say BS then.

Then you've won a WS so stop the crying. Lots of other people out there would love to have one WS from their team.

Sounds like Goggins is a Rangers fan, but since he was cool 'not a fan of anyone' guy earlier in this thread, he has to play coy about it now.

 

[NMYMND]

Trivia answers

Second man on the moon - Buzz Aldrin (and don't question him on that)

Cubs have longest drough in major North American sports. In Europe, Hibernian has not won the Scottish Cup since 1902 - lost in finals eight times since winning.

 

[17seconds]

Need to see when this re-airs. I only caught the first 30mins which surprisingly was an entire story on Bill Buckner. Guess they didn't have enough material for the main subject. Was quite compelling though.

 

[Eephus]

It's real easy to judge the Cubs and their fans if you are not one, or if you hate them. Did Bartman himself blow the game? Of course not. Did he deserve to have beer thrown on him and be called ##### and receive death threats? Of course not. Are Cubs fans 99.999999% of the time that big of dooshes? I say no. You probably think differently if you hate the team and/or their fans. But unless you are a Cubs fan, and have been one your whole life, you really have no frame of reference what it's like. You have no idea what it feels like to have your team out of it by the end of June. You have no idea the pressure that builds upon the team and the fans on the unlikely event that they do make the postseason. You have no idea what it's like for not only you, but your father, and maybe even your grandfather never seeing them win it all. Are they really cursed? Tough to say. But bagging on the fans because the minute the Bartman incident happened, the air went out of the stadium.....well, once again, you have no frame of reference.

So, if you hate the Cubs and/or their fans, that's fine, but the truth of the matter is is that you have no frame of reference, and you have no idea what it's like. Bottom line: Did Bartman lose the game, and did he deserve the treatment he received? Not at all. Was it the turning point that caused the collapse? Definitely. Should there have been more about the Cubs over the years and the reason why the team and the fans were/are under so much pressure, and less about the Red Sox and preachers saying "3 to oh"? Absoultely.

Haters feel free to flame away.

I'm an Indians fan; I really don't want to hear it. You guys get love because you are "loveable" losers. The Indians are just losers; you get love and quaint stories/coverage from the sports media and we get 3 ####ty movies made about us and how much we suck.We have the 2nd longest WS drought behind you guys...think about who the 2nd man to walk on the moon was. Nobody knows that. I've put up with 5 100+ loss seasons since I became an Indians fan. I seen everyone from Lou Pinella and Chris Chambliss to CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee traded away for basically boxes of jockstraps. You play in the "Friendly Confines"; I spent many years going to the Mistake by the Lake where I had to wear a jacket to night games in June or else I'd freeze to death. Only a long-time Indian fans knows how to start a rally by banging the empty seats on either side of you because there's only 8,000 people in a stadium meant to hold 10X that amount. Fortunately, Progressive Field is much better.

Indians fans don't go around waiting for something to happen. When things are good (like the 90s), they come out and cheer themselves hoarse. When they suck, they beef about how much the team sucks and all the losing. You don't hear much "Woe is Us" talk in Cleveland.

Really, take your self-martyrdom and shove it. I don't care.

You don't care, but felt the need to write a diatribe flaming me and Cubs fans? And have you won a World Series? Then shut up. You have no frame of reference.

1908 down?

Fred Merkle was the Steve Bartman of his era

 

[Limp Ditka]

Need to see when this re-airs. I only caught the first 30mins which surprisingly was an entire story on Bill Buckner. Guess they didn't have enough material for the main subject. Was quite compelling though.

Thursday, 11:00 PM Eastern on ESPN2

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Limpy and Servo - You're right. I didn't know the last time the Indians won. It seemed to me they won in the 90's, but I couldn't have said for certain (obviously). My apologies.

 

[Limp Ditka]

It's real easy to judge the Cubs and their fans if you are not one, or if you hate them. Did Bartman himself blow the game? Of course not. Did he deserve to have beer thrown on him and be called ##### and receive death threats? Of course not. Are Cubs fans 99.999999% of the time that big of dooshes? I say no. You probably think differently if you hate the team and/or their fans. But unless you are a Cubs fan, and have been one your whole life, you really have no frame of reference what it's like. You have no idea what it feels like to have your team out of it by the end of June. You have no idea the pressure that builds upon the team and the fans on the unlikely event that they do make the postseason. You have no idea what it's like for not only you, but your father, and maybe even your grandfather never seeing them win it all. Are they really cursed? Tough to say. But bagging on the fans because the minute the Bartman incident happened, the air went out of the stadium.....well, once again, you have no frame of reference.

So, if you hate the Cubs and/or their fans, that's fine, but the truth of the matter is is that you have no frame of reference, and you have no idea what it's like. Bottom line: Did Bartman lose the game, and did he deserve the treatment he received? Not at all. Was it the turning point that caused the collapse? Definitely. Should there have been more about the Cubs over the years and the reason why the team and the fans were/are under so much pressure, and less about the Red Sox and preachers saying "3 to oh"? Absoultely.

Haters feel free to flame away.

I'm an Indians fan; I really don't want to hear it. You guys get love because you are "loveable" losers. The Indians are just losers; you get love and quaint stories/coverage from the sports media and we get 3 ####ty movies made about us and how much we suck.We have the 2nd longest WS drought behind you guys...think about who the 2nd man to walk on the moon was. Nobody knows that. I've put up with 5 100+ loss seasons since I became an Indians fan. I seen everyone from Lou Pinella and Chris Chambliss to CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee traded away for basically boxes of jockstraps. You play in the "Friendly Confines"; I spent many years going to the Mistake by the Lake where I had to wear a jacket to night games in June or else I'd freeze to death. Only a long-time Indian fans knows how to start a rally by banging the empty seats on either side of you because there's only 8,000 people in a stadium meant to hold 10X that amount. Fortunately, Progressive Field is much better.

Indians fans don't go around waiting for something to happen. When things are good (like the 90s), they come out and cheer themselves hoarse. When they suck, they beef about how much the team sucks and all the losing. You don't hear much "Woe is Us" talk in Cleveland.

Really, take your self-martyrdom and shove it. I don't care.

You don't care, but felt the need to write a diatribe flaming me and Cubs fans? And have you won a World Series? Then shut up. You have no frame of reference.

1908 down?

Fred Merkle was the Steve Bartman of his era

BONER

 

[17seconds]

And Bernie Mac sings "root, root, root for the Champions, the Champions, the Champions!"

I love how something as innocuous as that completely deflates the fans. Anyone who is bothered by that is probably not a successful person. Take that attitude anywhere else in your life and you are a virtually a guaranteed failure.

 

[17seconds]

Need to see when this re-airs. I only caught the first 30mins which surprisingly was an entire story on Bill Buckner. Guess they didn't have enough material for the main subject. Was quite compelling though.

Thursday, 11:00 PM Eastern on ESPN2

thanks man

 

[Oh Yes!]

whoa whoa whoa, did somebody say Major League was ####ty?

 

[Limp Ditka]

whoa whoa whoa, did somebody say Major League was ####ty?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

whoa whoa whoa, did somebody say Major League was ####ty?

You want me to drag him outside? Kick the #### out of him?

 

[Greco]

whoa whoa whoa, did somebody say Major League was ####ty?

You want me to drag him outside? Kick the #### out of him?

You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

 

[Monsieur Meursault]

Something I found interesting...

One of the guys interviewed in the doc, the sportswriter, last name Drehr (I think), who was asked to write the Bartman story for ESPN a few years ago. I remember reading that article, and in it, he mentions talking to a psychologist about the whole incident. The psychologist claimed that he could get Bartman to talk openly about it, but he never got the opportunity. But he told the sprotswriter that for the most part, people don't really care about it, except for Cubs fans, and I guess to a lesser extent, sports fans. But he told the writer to ask 100 people if they know who Steve Bartman is and report his findings. The writer went to some festival in Chicago at the time, and asked 100 random people. I think there were only like 3 people who knew of Bartman. And this was in Chicago.

 

[Wrigley]

It was a decent and way too long show. I feel bad for Bartman, but don't blame the fans and media for the reaction. Mistakes come with consequences. He's not a scapegoat. The momentum completely changed on that play and there's a good chance the Cubs win the series if Alou catches that. Every mistake after it was connected to that one play.

I disagree, the Cubs are losers and it's telling that just because one out wasn't potentially made with a lead in the game, with a lead in the series and even another game at home, I would say it's a good chance regardless if that out was made or not the Cubs would have lost the series. They were wound so tight and have a loser mentality that all it took was something to go wrong then it was done. Prior through Gonzo folded like a cheap suit. Did you see many freaking runs were scored in the 8th by the Marlins? Shows Marlins were clearly the better team.Wonder why they didn't talk about Yankee fans being upset that the Marlins played them in the WS vs. Cubs. Would have been another WS championship if that had happened. The Cubs would have been mental midgets in a WS vs the Yanks.

Finally, there are teams/cities out there that have gone through long losing streaks or never have won anything so to Cub fans.

Name one other team that has gone 100 years without winning it all......just one.

Unless you have lived 100 years that's irrelevant. People I know who are around my age or younger could be Yankee fans but the ones that count in your mind are the ones you remember.If you say BS then fine at least as a Cub fan you've won a WS, right? How about the teams that's never won one?

I say BS then.

Then you've won a WS so stop the crying. Lots of other people out there would love to have one WS from their team.

Most people don't celebrate wins from before their parents were born.Pretty sure I haven't cried over this team since this

 

[belljr]

GB not being a fan of any team. I bet the games, win/lose then move on with my week. Amazing how people treat teams like it's a part of their lives. Sad really.

Wow, why don't you two have a seat over there in the sactimonious box with Rick Reilly?Fan of team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gambling degenerate

I agree but being a fan of a team doesn't mean it's the end of the world that many make it out to be if a team DOESN'T WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. It's basically entertainment. I root for my team and really enjoy following them but they don't make the playoffs so what. If that doesn't make me a "real fan" to some, so be it