Champ Bailey (1 Viewer)

[billyjoe]

Deion Sanders, in his prime was the best cornerback ever.He didn't need to tackle the wr he covered because he was never thrown at.Then...**** LaneMel BlountMike Haynes

It amazes me how many people are entralled with Deion's cover ability to the point where they utterly ignore a HUGE hole in his game. The fact is, how can you name someone as the greatest EVER, when they have a glaring weakness that other teams could totally exploit?Deion if ANYthing might be the best cover guy ever. But his real inability to tackle and the ability for the other team to explout that big weakness renders him eliminated from "best ever" talks, period.I would probably have to go with Night Train. His numbers, in a non passing era with less games in a season are simply ridiculous, and he was supposed to be a bruising hitter that absolutely disrubpted a game in many ways.From those I have seen? I can see Deion coming close, even with the huge minus in his tackling/run support, but there are good enough options to put them ahead of Deion as best CB of their time. I would probably have to put Woodson there but Bailey needs to enter the conversation, I suppose.

Big hole?Luckily he's a borderline HOF special teams player. Which Champ, is, not. How many TDs does Champ have? 5 career TDs? Sanders has 22 TDs. So wait, TDs don't count now? If Champ played WR, and had 15 TDs, you'd be sure as hell be bringing it up. If I'm picking a team, and CB is the first player you take, I'm taking Sanders because he's also an elite return man, and monster play maker. I'll be sure to get a good OLB and FS to to help out with the tackling. =) Teams throw to Champs side, ALL THE TIME. In the playoffs Holmgren told Favre NOT to throw Sanders way. Favre tried him once, and it was picked for a TD. Favre's response was, “I had to try him at least once”.Are you kidding me? HOF coach, HOF QB, and they went after Sanders ONCE. Every QB who played Champ this year went to his side, numerous times. It's not even close. You simply didn't go after Sanders. In the playoffs? Are you kidding? Primetime was when Sanders was at his best. Champ is great. I watched him all the time at UGA. But come on. Sanders was a mercenary that delivered RINGS. Champ can't even deliver the playoffs. Not all Champs fault, but Sanders success and impact on games, is undeniable.And the "big hole" argument is a little weak.Big Papi has a big hole, he doesn't even play defense. He still has a HUGE impact on games, wins games single-handedly, and a yearly contender for the MVP. All around game is great. How does it translate? Sanders consistently had a larger impact on games, on defense, on special teams, then any other CB in history. And SB rings magically seemed to follow him when he swapped teams.

 

[GroveDiesel]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver.

You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game.

And Rod Woodson just seems to get lost in the shuffle for some reason. Maybe it's because he was never quite the same after his knee injury even though he played for quite a few years after that. He did everything on defense. He was a great run stopper, he was a shutdown corner and he blitzed better than any other CB in NFL history. The way that Troy Polamalu played in the playoffs last season for the Steelers was how Woodson played ALL the time at CB when he played for the Steelers.

 

[LHUCKS]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver. You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game.

 

[JohnnyU]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver. You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game. And Rod Woodson just seems to get lost in the shuffle for some reason. Maybe it's because he was never quite the same after his knee injury even though he played for quite a few years after that. He did everything on defense. He was a great run stopper, he was a shutdown corner and he blitzed better than any other CB in NFL history. The way that Troy Polamalu played in the playoffs last season for the Steelers was how Woodson played ALL the time at CB when he played for the Steelers.

Once WRs figured out that Sanders didn't like contact, they started roughing him up at the line of scrimmage. That made Deion average when he wasn't playing off the WR and use his make-up speed.I think Mel Blount was the greatest cornerback of all-time. If I had to pick a Safety, I would pick either Jack Tatum or Ronnie Lott.

 

[Mike Herman]

Sports Illustrated's Top 25 DBs, from 2005, listed alphabetically:

Herb Adderly

**** Anderson

Steve Atwater

Lem Barney

Mel Blount

Bob Boyd

Willie Brown

Jack Christiansen

Kenny Easley

Darrell Green

Cliff Harris

Rodney Harrison

Mike Haynes

Ken Houston

Jimmy Johnson

Paul Krause

**** Lane

Ronnie Lott

Mel Renfro

Deion Sanders

Emlen Tunnell

Roger Wehrli

Larry Wilson

Willie Wood

Rod Woodson

 

[JohnnyU]

Sports Illustrated's Top 25 DBs, from 2005, listed alphabetically:Herb AdderlyDick AndersonSteve AtwaterLem BarneyMel BlountBob BoydWillie BrownJack ChristiansenKenny EasleyDarrell GreenCliff HarrisRodney HarrisonMike HaynesKen HoustonJimmy JohnsonPaul KrauseDick LaneRonnie LottMel RenfroDeion SandersEmlen TunnellRoger WehrliLarry WilsonWillie WoodRod Woodson

Harold Carmichael called Pat Fischer the toughest CB he ever faced.

 

[yetiknight]

The most dominant defensive players I have ever seen are LT, Reggie, and Deion.

The seasons that Merriman, Taylor, and Bailey had this year were great, but not nearly as dominant as the aforementioned's best years.

 

[Koya]

Deion Sanders, in his prime was the best cornerback ever.He didn't need to tackle the wr he covered because he was never thrown at.Then...**** LaneMel BlountMike Haynes

It amazes me how many people are entralled with Deion's cover ability to the point where they utterly ignore a HUGE hole in his game. The fact is, how can you name someone as the greatest EVER, when they have a glaring weakness that other teams could totally exploit?Deion if ANYthing might be the best cover guy ever. But his real inability to tackle and the ability for the other team to explout that big weakness renders him eliminated from "best ever" talks, period.I would probably have to go with Night Train. His numbers, in a non passing era with less games in a season are simply ridiculous, and he was supposed to be a bruising hitter that absolutely disrubpted a game in many ways.From those I have seen? I can see Deion coming close, even with the huge minus in his tackling/run support, but there are good enough options to put them ahead of Deion as best CB of their time. I would probably have to put Woodson there but Bailey needs to enter the conversation, I suppose.

Big hole?Luckily he's a borderline HOF special teams player. Which Champ, is, not. How many TDs does Champ have? 5 career TDs? Sanders has 22 TDs. So wait, TDs don't count now? If Champ played WR, and had 15 TDs, you'd be sure as hell be bringing it up. If I'm picking a team, and CB is the first player you take, I'm taking Sanders because he's also an elite return man, and monster play maker. I'll be sure to get a good OLB and FS to to help out with the tackling. =) Teams throw to Champs side, ALL THE TIME. In the playoffs Holmgren told Favre NOT to throw Sanders way. Favre tried him once, and it was picked for a TD. Favre's response was, “I had to try him at least once”.Are you kidding me? HOF coach, HOF QB, and they went after Sanders ONCE. Every QB who played Champ this year went to his side, numerous times. It's not even close. You simply didn't go after Sanders. In the playoffs? Are you kidding? Primetime was when Sanders was at his best. Champ is great. I watched him all the time at UGA. But come on. Sanders was a mercenary that delivered RINGS. Champ can't even deliver the playoffs. Not all Champs fault, but Sanders success and impact on games, is undeniable.And the "big hole" argument is a little weak.Big Papi has a big hole, he doesn't even play defense. He still has a HUGE impact on games, wins games single-handedly, and a yearly contender for the MVP. All around game is great. How does it translate? Sanders consistently had a larger impact on games, on defense, on special teams, then any other CB in history. And SB rings magically seemed to follow him when he swapped teams.

We didnt ask who the better football player is.We asked who the best CB is. Because of that, I am not even entering the other aspects of Deions game. If we talk about how valuable they are to a team, then Deion is probably well ahead of anyone else from the era - but still imo wouldnt pass Night Train.But, regardless what some other posters have said, Deion indeed had a significant weakness in a large aspect of the game, defensively. That costs him in the "greatest ever" discussion, sorry. He is an all time great, but he had a huge weakness againts which, another team could capitalize.

 

[Koya]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver. You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game.

He could shut down a half of the field - as did others in the past (the other true greats).He could also be shoved off by a more physical receiver although this is a minor weakness with his ability to make up by pursuit.But he could also be run at and exploited because of his lack of ability to play a physical game, which costs him, imo, in this discussion. We are talking greatest ever, so you have to start splitting hairs.This is a thick hair and easy to split.

 

[Big Score]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be.

Uhhhh...yeah...he was.Dieon was famous for going on 15+ yard piggy back rides, while slapping the guys helmet he was trying to tackle, like an ineffectual girl.

 

[Tau837]

My list goeseionChampWoodsonA. Williams

I love you including A.Williams. In his day he was lock-down. I remember loving the Cowboy games he ALWAYS put the lock down on Michael I.

He was overshadowed by Deion, but he was the 2nd best corner of his era.He whent to something like 6 straight pro bowls...everybody forgets about him because he played for the Cards.He would be going to the HOF had Deion never existed.

I agree on Aeneas Williams. He is very underrated because he played the majority of his career for Arizona. Old post on him:

Williams:- All Pro 4 times as a CB- Pro Bowler 8 times (7 at CB, 1 at S)- Selected for 1990s All Decade team- 55 career interceptions, currently #17 all time- 794 tackles, 3 sacks, 12 forced fumbles, 23 fumble recoveries, 168 passes defensed... not sure how these numbers compare to other CBs/DBs- 12 defensive TDs, including 9 interception returns (tied for #2 all-time)- Postseason record 2 interceptions returned for TDs in 1 game (vs. Green Bay 1/20/02)- Played in 183 consecutive games, including 180 consecutive starts- Played in one Super Bowl, which his team lostTo me it seems clear that Williams is next in line for recent era DBs, after Sanders & Rod Woodson. (And also behind Darrell Green if you consider him to be of the same era.)

 

[Tau837]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver. You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game.

I second this. IMO Sanders is the best CB I have seen play. I didn't see Lane play, though.

 

[rockbottom895]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver. You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game.

I second this. IMO Sanders is the best CB I have seen play. I didn't see Lane play, though.

Stop saying that because of his coverage skills he didnt need to be a tackler. That is one hundred percent false. If you have ever watched him play, he shys away from getting into the action. Champ flys at the ball carrier, regardless of who it is. Deion would never lay out to make a tackle on a big runner. Champ is a much better corner than Deion was.

 

[Emmitt Smith]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver.

You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game.

ETA: :rofl: at the dude who said Deion would get man handled at the line. Deion was pretty big for a corner. And I'd like to know one WR who had a huge game against Deion.

I second this. IMO Sanders is the best CB I have seen play. I didn't see Lane play, though.

Stop saying that because of his coverage skills he didnt need to be a tackler. That is one hundred percent false. If you have ever watched him play, he shys away from getting into the action. Champ flys at the ball carrier, regardless of who it is. Deion would never lay out to make a tackle on a big runner. Champ is a much better corner than Deion was.

Ask Stephen Davis and he'll tell you differently. First play of the game, Deion read the toss and stuck Davis in the backfield for about a 5 yard loss. He was not a fierce hitter I agree. He did shy away from making hard hits, I agree. But every player who has ever played has a weakness. Deion was the only player in NFL history where he literally shut down one side of the field. Deion is the only true shut down corner to lace em up. You can hate on Deion all you like, but this is true. There have been guys who have been great for a few years in a row such as Ty Law, but nobody did it like Deion did it for the length of their career. All this Champ Bailey talk is nuts. He's a very, VERY good corner and possibly a HOFamer one day, but he is in no way, shape, or form, better then Prime Time.

 

[Desert_Power]

All-Mascara Team

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Rod Woodson:

Woodson recorded 71 interceptions, 1,483 interception return yards, 32 fumble recoveries (15 offensive and 17 defensive), 137 fumble return yards, 2,362 punt return yards, and 15 touchdowns(12 interception returns, 1 fumble return, 2 punt returns). He holds the league record for interceptions returned for touchdowns with 12, and is tied with 11 other players for the record for most fumble recoveries in a single game(3). His 1,483 interception return yards are also an NFL record.

Defense Stats YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST PD SACK FF REC INT YDS TD 1987 PIT 8 20 15 5 0 0 0 0 1 45 1 1988 PIT 16 88 78 10 18 1 1 0 4 98 0 1989 PIT 15 80 67 13 18 0 4 0 3 39 0 1990 PIT 16 66 54 12 16 0 1 0 5 67 0 1991 PIT 15 71 60 11 16 1 1 0 3 72 0 1992 PIT 16 100 85 15 17 6 4 0 4 90 0 1993 PIT 16 95 79 16 30 2 2 0 8 138 1 1994 PIT 15 83 67 16 20 3 3 0 4 109 2 1995 PIT 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1996 PIT 16 71 62 9 19 1 0 0 6 121 1 1997 SFO 14 48 45 3 21 0 1 0 3 81 0 1998 BAL 16 88 80 8 16 0 0 0 6 108 2 1999 BAL 16 66 54 12 18 0 0 0 7 195 2 2000 BAL 16 77 68 9 10 0 2 0 4 20 0 2001 BAL 16 76 58 18 12 0 1 0 3 57 1 2002 OAK 16 82 72 10 16 0 0 0 8 225 2 2003 OAK 10 51 42 9 3 0 0 0 2 18 0 Career 238 1163 987 176 250 13.5 20 0 71 1483 12

If you cant read that, in 1992 Rod had 100 Tackles, 85 of them solo, 6 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, and 4 INTs. He also returned a punt for a TD that year. (but had zero of his NFL record 12 INTs returned for TDs in 1992)

Sorry if this was mentioned already, but Didn't Woodson play 8 of those years at Safety? Obviously his best years were behind him at that point.

He never played Safety in Pittsburgh where he was named to the NFL 75th Ann. Team.

 

[rockbottom895]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver.

You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game.

ETA: :rofl: at the dude who said Deion would get man handled at the line. Deion was pretty big for a corner. And I'd like to know one WR who had a huge game against Deion.

I second this. IMO Sanders is the best CB I have seen play. I didn't see Lane play, though.

Stop saying that because of his coverage skills he didnt need to be a tackler. That is one hundred percent false. If you have ever watched him play, he shys away from getting into the action. Champ flys at the ball carrier, regardless of who it is. Deion would never lay out to make a tackle on a big runner. Champ is a much better corner than Deion was.

Ask Stephen Davis and he'll tell you differently. First play of the game, Deion read the toss and stuck Davis in the backfield for about a 5 yard loss. He was not a fierce hitter I agree. He did shy away from making hard hits, I agree. But every player who has ever played has a weakness. Deion was the only player in NFL history where he literally shut down one side of the field. Deion is the only true shut down corner to lace em up. You can hate on Deion all you like, but this is true. There have been guys who have been great for a few years in a row such as Ty Law, but nobody did it like Deion did it for the length of their career. All this Champ Bailey talk is nuts. He's a very, VERY good corner and possibly a HOFamer one day, but he is in no way, shape, or form, better then Prime Time.

How can you say he is not in the conversation for the best cornerback of all time? Are you serious?

 

[diesel7982]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver. You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game.

Deion's definition of tackling a RB consisted of falling to the ground and hoping the RB would trip over him.

 

[rockbottom895]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver.

You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game.

Deion's definition of tackling a RB consisted of falling to the ground and hoping the RB would trip over him.

I one hundred percent agree. A corner back cannot be complete unless he has tackling skills and coverage skills. Champ's cover skills may not be as talented as Deions, but his run stopping ability surpasses the different in their coverage abilities. I have watched both of these cornerbacks play, and without quesiton, Champ is more rounded and a BETTER overall CB.

 

[Emmitt Smith]

It's unbelievable how much the myth persists about Deion being such a bad tackler. While he wasn't exactly Brian Urlacher he wasn't as bad as everyone always made him out to be. You have to remember that he almost never had to tackle his own guy because QBs weren't dumb enough to throw the ball his way. So most of his tackle numbers were from tackling a RB or somebody else's receiver.

You also have to remember that because of his speed and coverage skills teams didn't need him to be a tackler. A defense could bring their safety up in the box and keep their LBers home because Deion would shut the entire side of the field down in the passing game.

Deion's definition of tackling a RB consisted of falling to the ground and hoping the RB would trip over him.

I one hundred percent agree. A corner back cannot be complete unless he has tackling skills and coverage skills. Champ's cover skills may not be as talented as Deions, but his run stopping ability surpasses the different in their coverage abilities. I have watched both of these cornerbacks play, and without quesiton, Champ is more rounded and a BETTER overall CB.

You watching them both play doesn't mean anything if you don't have a clue of what you're talking about.Champ still has time to cement his play as the best ever buy as of today, it's not even close. Take off your Denver goggles. And I am not a big Deion guy despite the time he was in Dallas. Best corner ever and it's not even close, but I wasn't a fan of his.

Deion Sanders

Mike Haynes

Willie Brown

Mel Blount

Darrel Green

All ahead of flavor of the month Champ Bailey

This doesn't mean Champ can't be the best corner ever, but it's waaaay to early.