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*** Chargers Official 2022 Thread - team only allowed soft foods on filght home for fear of choking again. *** (3 Viewers)

I'm with you on Stick, he's not worth using a roster spot on right now. This year it makes a ton of sense to go with the vet rather than the project too, since Daniel could manage a game or two if Herbert can't go and the team could still win. You need a guy like that around on a team with playoff aspirations.
 
Stick looked great tonight, IMO. If the Chargers keep just two QBs on the final 53, I'm not convinced the second one shouldn't be Stick.
 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Stick looked great tonight, IMO. If the Chargers keep just two QBs on the final 53, I'm not convinced the second one shouldn't be Stick.
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I think great is an overstatement. He had 23 attempts for 119 yards, while facing the second half Rams defense (read: mostly players who will not make a final NFL roster this season). His ball placement was spotty. The interception was thrown behind Bandy, so I put that more on Stick than Bandy (who looked good BTW).

That said, it looks like Daniel cannot throw an out route properly based on this game. He threw at least 2 passes that could have been pick sixes. If that wasn’t a fluke, it may need to be Stick at QB2 by default.
 
I haven't had a chance to see the game. By all accounts Stick looked better than he ever has before in his Charger career. I heard Spiller looked good too. And the guys they were running out on D didn't do so hot, except for Rumph.
 
Gr00vus said:
I haven't had a chance to see the game. By all accounts Stick looked better than he ever has before in his Charger career. I heard Spiller looked good too. And the guys they were running out on D didn't do so hot, except for Rumph.
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Comments:
  • QB Stick looked better than in the past, though IMO that was a low bar. Jury still out IMO as to whether he can be QB2 or is locked in at QB3.
  • Kelley looked like a different player. Though Spiller played well, I would say Kelley locked up a roster spot, if he didn't already have one locked, and is currently sitting ahead of Spiller at RB2.
  • WR Bandy looked great. I think he might actually have a chance to force the Chargers to keep 6 WRs, though the numbers game is influenced by how many they keep at QB, RB, TE, and various defensive position groups.
  • Edge Rumph looked great and looks significantly improved since last season. This is a big deal, since it could help the team to afford to let Van Noy play more snaps at ILB.
  • Edge Davis looked great. 5 pressures and strong run defense. I continue to think that he should make the final roster over Ogbongbemiga, with Van Noy moving to ILB as his primary position.
  • CB Davis had a good showing. He was already a lock for a top 4 CB spot, but has a chance to earn a bigger role, whether by edging out Samuel for top 3 CB snaps or getting snaps at the Money spot.
  • CB Leonard had a bad game, but he was in phase on all of his bad defensive plays, meaning he can potentially be coached out of his poor play (i.e., get your ****ing head around!). I expect he will be a practice squad player.
  • S Woods didn't look good, but it's one game for a rookie. His roster spot is safe.
  • S Gilman looked good. I have expected him to make the final roster all along, and I saw nothing to put that in jeopardy.
 
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Derwin gets his extension. Seems like a lot of money and cap hit with Herbert's extension looming.

I'll leave the sordid details to our capologist @Just Win Baby - work your magic!
 
Gr00vus said:
Derwin gets his extension. Seems like a lot of money and cap hit with Herbert's extension looming.

I'll leave the sordid details to our capologist @Just Win Baby - work your magic!
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4 years, 76.5M, 42M guaranteed, 29M payout year 1 could mean:
  • 20M signing bonus, payable now
  • 2022 - 9M salary, guaranteed = 14M cap hit
  • 2023 - 13M salary, guaranteed = 18M cap hit
  • 2024 - 15M salary, not guaranteed = 20M cap hit; can be released before season with 10M in dead cap money
  • 2025 - 19.5M salary, not guaranteed = 24.5M cap hit; can be released before season with 5M in dead cap money
There could also be guaranteed option bonuses that could shift some of that year 1 cap hit to later years. Will be interested to see details.

All that said, I already posted this in the thread:

Look Ahead to 2023 Chargers

TL;DR - The Chargers have a non-trivial cap problem in 2023. I know teams (other than the Chargers) deal with this routinely, so I know they will work it out. But I think this emphasizes that 2022 is a true "window season". They will probably have at least a marginally weaker roster in 2023 and beyond.
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I assumed a contract like this for James in that post.
 
Bandy got the chop. I'm sure he'll be in a Patriots uni shortly.

Covington also released, maybe that means Fehoko will be on the 53?
 
Here's the 53, for now.

3 qbs, again. Stick must have more dirt on Herbert than Tillery does on Telesco.

Offense (25)​

  • Quarterbacks (3): Justin Herbert, Chase Daniel, Easton, Stick
  • Running Backs (4): Austin Ekeler, Joshua Kelley, Isaiah Spiller, Larry Rountree
  • Fullback (1): Zander Horvath
  • Wide Receiver (5): Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Joshua Palmer, Jalen Guyton, DeAndre Carter
  • Tight End (3): Gerald Everett, Donald Parham, Tre’ McKitty
  • Offensive Line (9): Rashawn Slater, Matt Feiler, Corey Linsley, Zion Johnson, Trey Pipkins, Storm Norton, Jamaree Salyer, Brenden Jaimes, Will Clapp

Defense (25)​

  • Defensive Line (6): Sebastian Joseph-Day, Austin Johnson, Morgan Fox, Jerry Tillery, Breiden Fehoko, Otito Ogbonnia
  • Edge Rushers (3): Joey Bosa, Khalil Mack, Chris Rumph II
  • Linebackers (6): Kyle Van Noy, Drue Tranquill, Troy Reeder, Kenneth Murray, Nick Niemann, Amen Ogbongbemiga
  • Cornerbacks (6): J.C. Jackson, Asante Samuel Jr., Michael Davis, Bryce Callahan, Ja’Sir Taylor, Deane Leonard
  • Safeties (4): Derwin James, Nasir Adderley, Alohi Gilman, JT Woods

Special Teams (3)​

  • Kicker: Dustin Hopkins
  • Punter: JK Scott
  • Long Snapper: Josh Harris
Click to expand...
 
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Seems like Roundtree, Clapp, Ogbonnia, Ogbongbemiga, and Leonard shouldn't be making long term plans just yet. Tillery should be among that group too, but... :shrug:
 
I was close in my final roster project a couple weeks ago.

In my projection after preseason game 2, the only guys I had making it who didn't are CB Campbell (injured), S Webb (injured), and Edge Davis. I think both Campbell and Webb would have made it if healthy. I'm disappointed about Davis and hope he makes the practice squad.

The guys who made it that I didn't project are RB Rountree, LB Ogbongbemiga, and CB Leonard.

I can understand Ogbongbemiga. The team seemingly made the choice to use Van Noy as the 4th Edge player, which implies fewer snaps for him at ILB. Not sure I agree with that, but I understand it was a decision point. (I think using KVN at ILB1 exclusively while using a player like Jamal Davis for Edge 4 snaps arguably maximizes positive impact on the defense... but I also fully expect KVN to be a quality Edge player...)

I can also understand Leonard, though I doubt he would have made it if at least one of Campbell or Webb were healthy, and it seems possible that he will be dropped to the practice squad as soon as Jackson is recovered and playing normal snaps.

I have no idea what the team sees in Rountree, and I see no reason for them to be concerned that he would have been claimed on waivers, so he almost certainly would have made it to the practice squad. Supposedly, his value is on special teams, but that implies that he has to be active on gameday. I could see that in the first week or two if Spiller's ankle leads him to be inactive, but I can't see 4 RBs and FB Horvath all being active on gameday, and Rountree is the obvious man out if all are healthy.

Bottom line, I think this is the roster of a championship contender if they stay healthy. :football:
 
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Also 14 signed to the practice squad. Guess we'll have to wait to see Bandy in a Pats uniform :-).

Zack BaileyT2South Carolina
Michael BandyWR1San Diego
Christian CovingtonDL8Rice
Joe GazianoDL2Northwestern
Kemon HallCB2North Texas
Michael JacquetCB2Louisiana-Lafayette
Hunter KampmoyerTE1Oregon
Carlo KempOLB1Michigan
Raheem LayneSRIndiana
Tyreek Maddox-WilliamsLBRRutgers
Jason Moore Jr.WR2Findlay
Joe ReedWR2Virginia
Foster SarellT1Stanford
Mark Webb Jr.DB2Georgia
Click to expand...
 
The W and the sacks + turnovers on D were probably the big takeaways. Felt ill when I saw them give up that 3rd and 16 in the first quarter - they need to knock that stuff off.

Obviously Allen's hamstring is a concern, but the should put him on ice until he's 100%, not worth risking long term recurring issues bringing him back too soon. Seems like other folks on the roster can fill in capably while he's out.

Felt like the offense was a bit too conservative overall - playing not to lose. Herbert looks like he could be the greatest QB in Chargers history if he has a full, healthy career. They need to start treating him that way with the offensive planning and play calling.
 
Gr00vus said:
The W and the sacks + turnovers on D were probably the big takeaways. Felt ill when I saw them give up that 3rd and 16 in the first quarter - they need to knock that stuff off.

Obviously Allen's hamstring is a concern, but the should put him on ice until he's 100%, not worth risking long term recurring issues bringing him back too soon. Seems like other folks on the roster can fill in capably while he's out.

Felt like the offense was a bit too conservative overall - playing not to lose. Herbert looks like he could be the greatest QB in Chargers history if he has a full, healthy career. They need to start treating him that way with the offensive planning and play calling.
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:goodposting:

So far, the most surprising thing to me about the first game is that Allen got hurt and played only 33% of the snaps, yet Guyton got only 5 snaps on offense.

Overall, I felt the offensive playcalling was a bit more conservative than it should have been, and a bit more Guyton (read: deep speed) might help, especially with Allen out.
 
I thought they'd work Guyton in more as well. They went to Carter instead (who delivered). Does he represent the same speed / deep threat needed to spread the defense as Guyton?
 
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Gr00vus said:
I thought they'd work Guyton in more as well. They went to Carter instead (who delivered). Does he represent the same speed / deep threat needed to spread the defense as Guyton?
Click to expand...

I think Carter is definitely the other speed WR, but I wouldn't have said he was as good a fit for that role as Guyton.

Carter ran 4.48 at the 2015 NFL combine and 4.44 at his pro day.
Guyton wasn't invited to the combine in 2019, but he ran 4.39 at his pro day.

For whatever it's worth, Guyton did that at 212 lbs; Carter was 185 lbs. Guyton is also 4 inches taller and has larger hands and longer arms, all of which might help him to be a stronger deep threat than Carter.

These differences may help explain why Guyton's career ADOT is 14.4, compared to 9.2 for Carter.
 
I like Guyton better than Carter too. Yet they went to Carter. I was hoping Guyton got an expanded role this year in general, maybe that will still happen, maybe he's just not as good as I think he is and hasn't earned the time. Maybe he's not who they planned to fill in for Allen's spot/route tree if Allen is out. I don't know if its causation or coincidence, but the offense didn't seem as spiffy after Allen went out. Weren't may guys getting open.

I know you saw the games they're playing with promoting Covington and releasing Fehoko - gb the CBA. And still Tillery remains...
 
Gr00vus said:
I like Guyton better than Carter too. Yet they went to Carter. I was hoping Guyton got an expanded role this year in general, maybe that will still happen, maybe he's just not as good as I think he is and hasn't earned the time. Maybe he's not who they planned to fill in for Allen's spot/route tree if Allen is out. I don't know if its causation or coincidence, but the offense didn't seem as spiffy after Allen went out. Weren't may guys getting open.
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I didn't mean to say or imply that I don't like Carter. I do like him. I just don't see their skill sets as being the same. I think there is a role in the offense for Guyton's skill set and another role for Carter's skill set.

Gr00vus said:
I know you saw the games they're playing with promoting Covington and releasing Fehoko - gb the CBA. And still Tillery remains...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I saw it, and I find it very disappointing. I posted this about it today at BFTB:

I know this is related to CBA rules on guaranteed contracts, and I know this is part of the NFL business. But IMO it is hard to reconcile Staley's comments about the importance of competition and caring about his players with how they handled this.

The implication here is that Covington actually won the competition, but the Chargers didn't initially keep him in order to save money if they choose not to keep him all season. But how much money are we talking about here?

Without boring anyone with the details, if Covington stays on the 53 man roster the rest of the season, they saved a grand total of about $12,500. That is inconsequential.

The point of the move is to be able to release Covington later in the season without incurring a dead cap hit for the remainder of his salary. So there could be more savings ahead. But it will be pretty inconsequential as well.

Covington will have to be replaced if released. The minimum salary for a player with 7+ credited seasons, like Covington, is $1.12M. The minimum salary for a player with 1 credited season, like Fehoko, is $825K. That is a difference of $287K, which is a per game difference of ~$16.4K. This just doesn't seem terribly important.

I don't understand the rationale for preaching competition and preaching how much the team cares about the players, then making a move like this that seems to defy those principles. I find it disappointing.
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Just a huge game tomorrow. It's going to be tough going on the road on a short week without Allen. I hope we don't see the conservative offense we saw in the fourth quarter on Sunday.

Can't wait!
 
Gonna be really tough in KC. Agree. Big test for the defense. But Herbert is a stud.....and this can be a chance to show his skills in a huge divisional game on the road. Not having Allen is really tough. Williams has to step up.....I would use Austin a lot in the passing game and running game....gotta lean on him and shorten this game as much as possible.
 
Nick Vermeil said:
Gr00vus said:
:sadbanana:
Click to expand...
They had the Chiefs on the ropes and then that 40 yard TD to Watson over Jackson just flipped a switch. The defense folded after that. Not good to see.
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WTF are you talking about? The Chargers D allowed 20 points to KC in KC. They played great.

Another poster at BFTB posted this, which is a reasonable take IMO:

It took a Herbert injury, Allen injury, Linsley injury, Pipkins injury, unfortunate rare mistake by Herbert throwing a pick-6 (I didn't like that throw, regardless of Everett being out of steam), and two extremely ticky-tacky reversed INT calls for the Chiefs to win by three points.

I'm worried about Linsley and Herbert's health for the rest of the season. But if there are positive takeaways, I'd say that:
  • If he hadn't already, Herbert won over every guy in that locker room. He's not just their leader or their quarterback at this point, Herbert became a guy that players on that team will run through a brick wall for. Carter and Everett's twitter posts last night echoed as much.
  • Our defense is what we thought it would be. Mahomes knows he was bailed out of that game. Most objective fans watching that game believe the better team lost.
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And he didn't even point out, this was on the road in KC on a short week, or that KC is a top 3 contender (with Bills and Chargers IMO) for the #1 seed in the AFC.
 
Just Win Baby said:
Nick Vermeil said:
Gr00vus said:
:sadbanana:
Click to expand...
They had the Chiefs on the ropes and then that 40 yard TD to Watson over Jackson just flipped a switch. The defense folded after that. Not good to see.
Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about? The Chargers D allowed 20 points to KC in KC. They played great.

Another poster at BFTB posted this, which is a reasonable take IMO:

It took a Herbert injury, Allen injury, Linsley injury, Pipkins injury, unfortunate rare mistake by Herbert throwing a pick-6 (I didn't like that throw, regardless of Everett being out of steam), and two extremely ticky-tacky reversed INT calls for the Chiefs to win by three points.

I'm worried about Linsley and Herbert's health for the rest of the season. But if there are positive takeaways, I'd say that:
  • If he hadn't already, Herbert won over every guy in that locker room. He's not just their leader or their quarterback at this point, Herbert became a guy that players on that team will run through a brick wall for. Carter and Everett's twitter posts last night echoed as much.
  • Our defense is what we thought it would be. Mahomes knows he was bailed out of that game. Most objective fans watching that game believe the better team lost.
Click to expand...

And he didn't even point out, this was on the road in KC on a short week, or that KC is a top 3 contender (with Bills and Chargers IMO) for the #1 seed in the AFC.
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Good points. “Folded” was too strong a word. My point is, the D was abusing KC until that 40 yard td. The pick 6 was killer but the D was not the same after that td. They looked tired after that and they probably were due to the short week. Giving up 72 yards for the winning field goal is what I’m referring to.

Look, I expected KC to win but I remain optimistic. But we’re going to need some 4th quarter defensive heroics late season.
 
Nick Vermeil said:
Just Win Baby said:
Nick Vermeil said:
Gr00vus said:
:sadbanana:
Click to expand...
They had the Chiefs on the ropes and then that 40 yard TD to Watson over Jackson just flipped a switch. The defense folded after that. Not good to see.
Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about? The Chargers D allowed 20 points to KC in KC. They played great.

Another poster at BFTB posted this, which is a reasonable take IMO:

It took a Herbert injury, Allen injury, Linsley injury, Pipkins injury, unfortunate rare mistake by Herbert throwing a pick-6 (I didn't like that throw, regardless of Everett being out of steam), and two extremely ticky-tacky reversed INT calls for the Chiefs to win by three points.

I'm worried about Linsley and Herbert's health for the rest of the season. But if there are positive takeaways, I'd say that:
  • If he hadn't already, Herbert won over every guy in that locker room. He's not just their leader or their quarterback at this point, Herbert became a guy that players on that team will run through a brick wall for. Carter and Everett's twitter posts last night echoed as much.
  • Our defense is what we thought it would be. Mahomes knows he was bailed out of that game. Most objective fans watching that game believe the better team lost.
Click to expand...

And he didn't even point out, this was on the road in KC on a short week, or that KC is a top 3 contender (with Bills and Chargers IMO) for the #1 seed in the AFC.
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Good points. “Folded” was too strong a word. My point is, the D was abusing KC until that 40 yard td. The pick 6 was killer but the D was not the same after that td. They looked tired after that and they probably were due to the short week. Giving up 72 yards for the winning field goal is what I’m referring to.

Look, I expected KC to win but I remain optimistic. But we’re going to need some 4th quarter defensive heroics late season.
Click to expand...

I would simply point out that the 72 yards for the winning FG was one big play for 67 yards (52 yard run plus 15 yard facemask). Any defense can give up one big play. It is unfortunate, but it doesn't really seem indicative to me of how well the defense played in the game.
 
We're relieved that it's just a rib cartilage fracture and not rib bone fracture. We're already sweating out big injuries here in week 3 - must be another Charger season.
 
Parham and Allen participating in individual drills today.
Herbert threw yesterday and is supposed to (already did?) participate in individual drills today.
As important to all you Herbert owners - Linsley and Pipkins day to day.
 
Herbert was limited in practice today and did not throw (at least during the part of practice open to the media).
 
Herbert threw in open practice yesterday, reports were that there was no visible indication he was in pain.

Linsley and J.C. Jackson sat out practice yesterday. Pipkins, Allen, and Parham were limited.

Not a fan of Herbert playing behind scrubs at center and RT again. Hopefully Linsley and Pipkins (jeez I can't believe I'm writing this) can show up Sunday. Popular opinion is that Linsley's tendonitis just needs the extra rest and he'll go Sunday.
 
Of course they do t want to lose Sunday, but they can’t take the chance of losing their best players for a longer time. Sometimes the rushing and D have to win it for you.
 
This marks the first time I've felt more negative than positive about the coaching staff under Staley. I've had a more negative than positive feeling about Lombardi for a while now, even granting some restrictions on the playcalling have been necessary due to issues on the offensive line. He should be on borrowed time at this point, the position grouping/utilization and play calling have been bad for a while now. Beyond that, I'm not seeing Brandon Staley defensive super genius either, so I'm not really sure what he's bringing to the table if this is how it's going to be.
 
IMO that game yesterday was the low point for the Staley era so far. The Texans loss last season was close, but it was on the road and the team was dealing with a COVID outbreak... and that game was also at least competitive.

It is discouraging. I really felt like this was going to be a great season. I suppose it still can, but I am much more pessimistic after seeing that game yesterday. As of now, it looks like BUF, MIA, KC, BAL, and JAX are highly likely to make the playoffs. That leaves 2 wildcard spots for LAC, DEN, CLE, PIT, CIN, NE, IND, TEN.

With Herbert hurt, and with what feels like a regression in the quality of the coaching this season, the Chargers feel like a long shot to get one of those spots.

Aside from that, I had an issue with Staley keeping Herbert in the game on the last possession. It began with 4:54 remaining, down by 28 points. There was nothing to be gained by having him out there, but there was risk to Herbert, especially with Linsley and Slater both out. On top of that, this was a rare game when Stick was active. It would have been a perfect opportunity to give him some live game snaps. Here is what Popper had to say about it, and I agree 100%:

I have no issue that Herbert played. But the game was out of hand late in the fourth quarter. The Jaguars had scored with 4:54 remaining in regulation to extend their lead to four touchdowns. The Chargers were not going to come back. It was over.

Yet Herbert, despite his serious rib injury, went back out there for the final Chargers possession. The Chargers were without starting center Corey Linsley, who missed the game with a knee injury. They were without starting left tackle Rashawn Slater, who left with a biceps injury in the second half. The protection was a mess. Storm Norton replaced Slater and gave up nine pressures in 23 pass-blocking snaps, according to TruMedia. This was not a safe situation for Herbert. And still there he was, running for his life, evading pressure and taking hits in a meaningless final five minutes.

This was an inexcusable decision by Staley.

...

There has to be a risk-reward calculation in this situation. The risk is enormous — potentially worsening your star quarterback’s already significant injury. The reward is quite literally nonexistent.

When asked why he took on that unnecessary risk, Staley said, “That was just the decision that we made. And it was about us finishing that game as a team, and it was important for us that we did it.”

“I just didn’t want to quit on my team,” Herbert said.

You can certainly commend the toughness and mentality from Herbert. But Staley must step in and remove Herbert from the game — in the best interest of Herbert and the long-term success of the entire team.

The Chargers do not have a chance at contending for the playoffs if Herbert misses time. That cannot be argued. Even if Herbert was refusing to come out — because he didn’t want to “quit” on his teammates — Staley has to overrule him. He has to make the tough decision as the head coach, even if Herbert disagrees.

...

This did not feel like a decision that prioritized the long-term goals of the team.
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Did I just mention the Chargers making the playoffs?

Tom Pelissero

@TomPelissero

#Chargers LT Rashawn Slater suffered a ruptured biceps tendon in Sunday’s loss to the #Jaguars and is expected to miss the rest of the 2022 season, per source.

12:48 PM · Sep 26, 2022
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I would say Slater was the second most critical player on offense, behind Herbert, given the replacement options. This season is on the verge of entering a death spiral...
 
Having starters in at the end of the game yesterday was idiotic, particularly given how many injuries they already had at that point. Just ****ing stupid.

Slater out for the year really feels like this will be another lost season. Norton can't play, they'll need to shuffle the other starters around and put Salyer in somewhere (assuming they can't pick somebody suitable up from elsewhere). And we have no idea what's up with Linsley either - I hope he's not entering the Bulaga zone. Yet again the failure to obtain / develop depth on the offensive line strikes. Telesco should be fired for this, it's a chronic issue.
 
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