Chicago Bears 2012 Offseason Thread (2 Viewers)

[twistd]

But find me something that shows me WHY he's a good coach, instead of giving me reasons why he wasn't able to succeed. We're all held accountable, at least most of us, for how we perform on our jobs. What single wide receiver has Drake made better? You won't find anything significant. I promise you that. Whether you be like him or not, the guy isn't a very good coach. On an already mediocre staff, he's dead weight. Spin things a thousand different ways, but thep part of the team he is in charge hasn't done well. Simple as that.

Johnny Knox. 5th round pick developed into an almost 1,000 yard WR...Drake made him better.

I think Flap has a point. Knox is a decent receiver, but the Bears have not had a 1000 yard receiver since 2002. If you are a receiver coach, and year after year your group is mediocre, at some point you have to take some responsibility for it. We have to hope that he can do a better job with this group of receivers. This certainly seems to be the best core of talent that the Bears have had in many years. If they struggle now he needs to be fired.

Chicago hasn't had a Good QB and a #1 WR since...Kramer to Conway??? I don't think it's fair to throw the builder under the bus when he has to use rotten wood to build a home.If after this year all the WRs are terrible...then yes it's Drake's fault.

I don't necessarily think it is all Drake's fault. I'm just saying that he has to take some responsibility. He has never actually had a 1000 yard receiver. There have been 163 players who have had 1000 yard seasons in his eight years coaching the Bears receivers. He has never coached one. The Bears are one of two teams that have not had a 1000 yard receiver in the last eight years. The other is the Niners. Hopefully that streak will end this year.

 

[flapgreen]

But find me something that shows me WHY he's a good coach, instead of giving me reasons why he wasn't able to succeed. We're all held accountable, at least most of us, for how we perform on our jobs. What single wide receiver has Drake made better? You won't find anything significant. I promise you that. Whether you be like him or not, the guy isn't a very good coach. On an already mediocre staff, he's dead weight. Spin things a thousand different ways, but thep part of the team he is in charge hasn't done well. Simple as that.

Johnny Knox. 5th round pick developed into an almost 1,000 yard WR...Drake made him better.

I think Flap has a point. Knox is a decent receiver, but the Bears have not had a 1000 yard receiver since 2002. If you are a receiver coach, and year after year your group is mediocre, at some point you have to take some responsibility for it. We have to hope that he can do a better job with this group of receivers. This certainly seems to be the best core of talent that the Bears have had in many years. If they struggle now he needs to be fired.

Chicago hasn't had a Good QB and a #1 WR since...Kramer to Conway??? I don't think it's fair to throw the builder under the bus when he has to use rotten wood to build a home.If after this year all the WRs are terrible...then yes it's Drake's fault.

They won't be terrible, just not as good as they could be. Brandon Marshall will never be terrible. I'm hoping Bates will have enough control to overcome Drake's immense deficiencies.

 

[flapgreen]

But find me something that shows me WHY he's a good coach, instead of giving me reasons why he wasn't able to succeed. We're all held accountable, at least most of us, for how we perform on our jobs. What single wide receiver has Drake made better? You won't find anything significant. I promise you that. Whether you be like him or not, the guy isn't a very good coach. On an already mediocre staff, he's dead weight. Spin things a thousand different ways, but thep part of the team he is in charge hasn't done well. Simple as that.

Johnny Knox. 5th round pick developed into an almost 1,000 yard WR...Drake made him better.

I think Flap has a point. Knox is a decent receiver, but the Bears have not had a 1000 yard receiver since 2002. If you are a receiver coach, and year after year your group is mediocre, at some point you have to take some responsibility for it. We have to hope that he can do a better job with this group of receivers. This certainly seems to be the best core of talent that the Bears have had in many years. If they struggle now he needs to be fired.

Chicago hasn't had a Good QB and a #1 WR since...Kramer to Conway??? I don't think it's fair to throw the builder under the bus when he has to use rotten wood to build a home.If after this year all the WRs are terrible...then yes it's Drake's fault.

I don't necessarily think it is all Drake's fault. I'm just saying that he has to take some responsibility. He has never actually had a 1000 yard receiver. There have been 163 players who have had 1000 yard seasons in his eight years coaching the Bears receivers. He has never coached one. The Bears are one of two teams that have not had a 1000 yard receiver in the last eight years. The other is the Niners. Hopefully that streak will end this year.

Don't leave out that he has had an All-Pro QB and RB at his disposal, also.Benson, Knox is all you got? Come on...

 

[flapgreen]

There's one aspect of this whole Hester situation that doesn't make sense (actually several that are all inter-realted):

You went out and added Weems - who is a pro bowl returner in his own right. Some have suggested this was simply to replace Knox in the return game. Could be.

Then the Bears traded for Marhshall, traded up to snag Alshon Jeffry in the draft and added Devin Thomas (who is 6' 2" btw). You also still have Bennet. At best, Hester is the 5th (and shortest) WR on the team.

It almost seems as though the Bears have made Hester tradeable...or at least are well set to move forward without him on the offense. Couple that with his steadily declining receptions and the obvious fact that the two seasons he did have 50+ receptions ('08 & '09) he had ZERO return TDs (of any type).

Something doesn't add up here. Either the Bears are blowing sunshine, hoping to move Hester still or just hoping to keep everyone happy (or motivated?) - or they are clueless and delusional. At the risk of sounding like the old Shanny/Tatum Bell threads, perhaps they are just being careful not to hand the starting job to Jeffrey, who has shown a less-than-stellar work ethic at times?

It just wouldn't make any sense at all to make all the moves at WR that they did - then insist on forcing the ball to an under-sized, underskilled (at WR) guy who is an amazing returner when he's not over-used on offense. Am I missing something?

And please flap - don't just weigh in with the usual "They're just idiots".

There we go...

 

[flapgreen]

Signs pointing back to tackle for Bears' Williams

By Brad Biggs, Tribune reporter 12:11 p.m. CDT, May 14, 2012

The Chicago Bears have not made it official with Chris Williams, but barring a new development it appears likely the former first-round draft pick is headed back to tackle.

Williams has spent time at both guard and tackle in the voluntary offseason workout program, according to one teammate, and the composition of the roster makes it clear he’s needed on the outside. The Bears waived unproven tackle Levi Horn on Monday, eliminating another emergency option at the position. Horn spent the last two seasons on the practice squad.

It would appear general manager Phil Emery and the coaching staff have no other option but to play Williams at tackle. The club has plenty of depth on the interior, especially since the addition of Chilo Rachal in free agency last month. When asked about it during the draft weekend, coach Lovie Smith wouldn’t commit to a position for Williams.

Chris Spencer, Lance Louis, Rachal and Edwin Williams all have experience playing guard and that mix provides the team with competition to sort through during training camp and preseason. At tackle, offensive coordinator Mike Tice has J’Marcus Webb and Gabe Carimi, the first-round draft pick from last year that the team hopes will be back before minicamp next month. Carimi is still working his way back from surgery on his right knee during the final week of December.

So, healthy bodies right now at tackle -- if you don’t include Williams -- are Webb and undrafted college free agents A.J. Greene of Auburn and Tyler Hendrickson of Concordia. The club lists Troy’s James Brown, another undrafted free agent, at both guard and tackle on the roster. He did a little of both during rookie minicamp. Greene declined an invite to the NFL Scouting Combine in February and also passed on a pro day workout at his school in March because he wanted to start a music career. He since has changed his mind. Hendrickson was a Division II All-American at the school in St. Paul, Minn. That’s a long way from the NFL.

That means Williams is needed at tackle for a number of reasons. First, the Bears have expressed total confidence that Carimi will be back to full strength soon and be the emerging young talent he was last year. But he’s played only 1 1/2 games in the league and it’s impossible to say where he’s at until the pads are on and the action is live. Second, the club needs to push Webb. Tice and Smith have said they believe in Webb, but that doesn’t mean he’s in a position of being able to enter training camp as the undisputed starter. He struggled too much at times last season. Switching Williams back to tackle would allow him to compete for the left tackle job he once had and provide insurance for Carimi. There really isn’t another option unless they suddenly fill the final spot on the 90-man roster with an experienced tackle.

It’s worth wondering if Tice truly would consider Williams as a starter at left tackle. Williams started there for the first two games in 2010 before suffering a hamstring injury. When he returned, he was inserted at left guard in what seemed to be a permanent move. Williams has started 20 career games at left guard, more than anywhere else on the line. He has 11 starts at right tackle and seven at left tackle. The club’s top pick from 2008 -- 14th overall -- is entering the final year of his contract.

The only other option for the Bears could be to consider Louis at tackle again. He started 11 games at right tackle last season but Williams has been the one taking some time at tackle so far, and remember, the club is certain Carimi will be the top talent he was viewed to be a year ago soon.

The upside is Williams must realize there is a lot at stake for him entering this season. He missed seven games last season after the freak wrist injury. He should be at the top of his game and the Bears didn’t have anyone to push the tackles last year with Frank Omiyale as the third option. It will be interesting to see how Tice has the line organized when OTA’s begin next week at Halas Hall.

bmbiggs@tribune.com

Twitter @BradBiggs

I see nothing here that indicates Williams is headed back to right tackle, except speculation by Biggs. A couple of us made the point about being thin at tackle months ago. Biggs is a little behind on this one. I think he's been reading RBM's posts

 

[flapgreen]

Hester's still being called a starter cause he's the only other WR on the team making "starter" money. The starting job is basically his to lose. He'll start the season and if he fails to perform, we'll start seeing more of Bennett, Jeffery or Thomas (I'm also not ruling out Knox).

Personally, I want to see Hester as a compliment to our offense. While I agree he's no #1 WR, that has been the position he's been playing for us the past three seasons. Believe it or not, he's been the one drawing the most attention from the opposing defenses and I believe this is why he's been such a disappointment. Now that we've got Marshall lining up opposite Hester, defenses won't be able to focus on him as much and he could be very productive. He could also continue to fall flat on his face as a receiver.

I guess my point is, don't get too bent out of shape because Hester is being touted as the starter. He'll only remain such for as long as he's productive.

Go Bears!

J

WAT???

 

[flapgreen]

Regarding the Hester stuff...its clear that with the top three receivers being Marshall, Bennett, and Jeffrey, we would be lacking in deep speed. I really think thats the only reason he is needed at wr.

Its unfortunate we couldnt bring in someone with that speed who is a capable receiver but it was not in the cards.

They have been using that reasoning for multiple seasons. It hasn't worked out so good to this point.

 

[RBM]

Signs pointing back to tackle for Bears' Williams

By Brad Biggs, Tribune reporter 12:11 p.m. CDT, May 14, 2012

The Chicago Bears have not made it official with Chris Williams, but barring a new development it appears likely the former first-round draft pick is headed back to tackle.

Williams has spent time at both guard and tackle in the voluntary offseason workout program, according to one teammate, and the composition of the roster makes it clear he’s needed on the outside. The Bears waived unproven tackle Levi Horn on Monday, eliminating another emergency option at the position. Horn spent the last two seasons on the practice squad.

It would appear general manager Phil Emery and the coaching staff have no other option but to play Williams at tackle. The club has plenty of depth on the interior, especially since the addition of Chilo Rachal in free agency last month. When asked about it during the draft weekend, coach Lovie Smith wouldn’t commit to a position for Williams.

Chris Spencer, Lance Louis, Rachal and Edwin Williams all have experience playing guard and that mix provides the team with competition to sort through during training camp and preseason. At tackle, offensive coordinator Mike Tice has J’Marcus Webb and Gabe Carimi, the first-round draft pick from last year that the team hopes will be back before minicamp next month. Carimi is still working his way back from surgery on his right knee during the final week of December.

So, healthy bodies right now at tackle -- if you don’t include Williams -- are Webb and undrafted college free agents A.J. Greene of Auburn and Tyler Hendrickson of Concordia. The club lists Troy’s James Brown, another undrafted free agent, at both guard and tackle on the roster. He did a little of both during rookie minicamp. Greene declined an invite to the NFL Scouting Combine in February and also passed on a pro day workout at his school in March because he wanted to start a music career. He since has changed his mind. Hendrickson was a Division II All-American at the school in St. Paul, Minn. That’s a long way from the NFL.

That means Williams is needed at tackle for a number of reasons. First, the Bears have expressed total confidence that Carimi will be back to full strength soon and be the emerging young talent he was last year. But he’s played only 1 1/2 games in the league and it’s impossible to say where he’s at until the pads are on and the action is live. Second, the club needs to push Webb. Tice and Smith have said they believe in Webb, but that doesn’t mean he’s in a position of being able to enter training camp as the undisputed starter. He struggled too much at times last season. Switching Williams back to tackle would allow him to compete for the left tackle job he once had and provide insurance for Carimi. There really isn’t another option unless they suddenly fill the final spot on the 90-man roster with an experienced tackle.

It’s worth wondering if Tice truly would consider Williams as a starter at left tackle. Williams started there for the first two games in 2010 before suffering a hamstring injury. When he returned, he was inserted at left guard in what seemed to be a permanent move. Williams has started 20 career games at left guard, more than anywhere else on the line. He has 11 starts at right tackle and seven at left tackle. The club’s top pick from 2008 -- 14th overall -- is entering the final year of his contract.

The only other option for the Bears could be to consider Louis at tackle again. He started 11 games at right tackle last season but Williams has been the one taking some time at tackle so far, and remember, the club is certain Carimi will be the top talent he was viewed to be a year ago soon.

The upside is Williams must realize there is a lot at stake for him entering this season. He missed seven games last season after the freak wrist injury. He should be at the top of his game and the Bears didn’t have anyone to push the tackles last year with Frank Omiyale as the third option. It will be interesting to see how Tice has the line organized when OTA’s begin next week at Halas Hall.

bmbiggs@tribune.com

Twitter @BradBiggs

I see nothing here that indicates Williams is headed back to right tackle, except speculation by Biggs. A couple of us made the point about being thin at tackle months ago. Biggs is a little behind on this one. I think he's been reading RBM's posts

 

[flapgreen]

Hester could potentially be an average #2 or #3 receiver. Or he can definitely be a 1st ballot Hall of Fame return man. But he can't be both. So which one is harder to acquire? Which one does more for your team? It wouldn't take much research to prove Hester has contributed more to the Bears field position over the average returner than he has on offense over the average WR (which may be negative to date)- by a lot. Opponents spend big chunks of time figuring out how to keep the ball out of his hands in the return game, I guarantee nobody has sleepless nights worrying about how to stop him lined up on offense. A returner is like a race horse, you cant be out burning up his legs outside of the big race.

I agree, but he should be on offense for some select packages. Hester is very effective on screen plays/bubbles/deep shots down the field. Have him in for those plays and being a decoy 20-30 plays a game and then return.In another regard, Hester is probably the best returner ever...but Dave Toub can make almost any returner look solid to good as well. Bears that have return TDs under Dave Toub: Devin Hester, Johnny Knox, Earl Bennett, Daniel Manning

Couldn't agree more. If your boy Jeffery turns out, Hester is no more than a #4 in the current group of receivers. That's what's so confusing about the info already being put out by the coaching staff. Tice is constantly defending the OL, and Drake has defended Hester multiple times even this week. There's a reason they are having to field constant questions regarding those positions, and it's not because the writers have nothing else to talk about.

 

[flapgreen]

Signs pointing back to tackle for Bears' Williams

By Brad Biggs, Tribune reporter 12:11 p.m. CDT, May 14, 2012

The Chicago Bears have not made it official with Chris Williams, but barring a new development it appears likely the former first-round draft pick is headed back to tackle.

Williams has spent time at both guard and tackle in the voluntary offseason workout program, according to one teammate, and the composition of the roster makes it clear he’s needed on the outside. The Bears waived unproven tackle Levi Horn on Monday, eliminating another emergency option at the position. Horn spent the last two seasons on the practice squad.

It would appear general manager Phil Emery and the coaching staff have no other option but to play Williams at tackle. The club has plenty of depth on the interior, especially since the addition of Chilo Rachal in free agency last month. When asked about it during the draft weekend, coach Lovie Smith wouldn’t commit to a position for Williams.

Chris Spencer, Lance Louis, Rachal and Edwin Williams all have experience playing guard and that mix provides the team with competition to sort through during training camp and preseason. At tackle, offensive coordinator Mike Tice has J’Marcus Webb and Gabe Carimi, the first-round draft pick from last year that the team hopes will be back before minicamp next month. Carimi is still working his way back from surgery on his right knee during the final week of December.

So, healthy bodies right now at tackle -- if you don’t include Williams -- are Webb and undrafted college free agents A.J. Greene of Auburn and Tyler Hendrickson of Concordia. The club lists Troy’s James Brown, another undrafted free agent, at both guard and tackle on the roster. He did a little of both during rookie minicamp. Greene declined an invite to the NFL Scouting Combine in February and also passed on a pro day workout at his school in March because he wanted to start a music career. He since has changed his mind. Hendrickson was a Division II All-American at the school in St. Paul, Minn. That’s a long way from the NFL.

That means Williams is needed at tackle for a number of reasons. First, the Bears have expressed total confidence that Carimi will be back to full strength soon and be the emerging young talent he was last year. But he’s played only 1 1/2 games in the league and it’s impossible to say where he’s at until the pads are on and the action is live. Second, the club needs to push Webb. Tice and Smith have said they believe in Webb, but that doesn’t mean he’s in a position of being able to enter training camp as the undisputed starter. He struggled too much at times last season. Switching Williams back to tackle would allow him to compete for the left tackle job he once had and provide insurance for Carimi. There really isn’t another option unless they suddenly fill the final spot on the 90-man roster with an experienced tackle.

It’s worth wondering if Tice truly would consider Williams as a starter at left tackle. Williams started there for the first two games in 2010 before suffering a hamstring injury. When he returned, he was inserted at left guard in what seemed to be a permanent move. Williams has started 20 career games at left guard, more than anywhere else on the line. He has 11 starts at right tackle and seven at left tackle. The club’s top pick from 2008 -- 14th overall -- is entering the final year of his contract.

The only other option for the Bears could be to consider Louis at tackle again. He started 11 games at right tackle last season but Williams has been the one taking some time at tackle so far, and remember, the club is certain Carimi will be the top talent he was viewed to be a year ago soon.

The upside is Williams must realize there is a lot at stake for him entering this season. He missed seven games last season after the freak wrist injury. He should be at the top of his game and the Bears didn’t have anyone to push the tackles last year with Frank Omiyale as the third option. It will be interesting to see how Tice has the line organized when OTA’s begin next week at Halas Hall.

bmbiggs@tribune.com

Twitter @BradBiggs

I see nothing here that indicates Williams is headed back to right tackle, except speculation by Biggs. A couple of us made the point about being thin at tackle months ago. Biggs is a little behind on this one. I think he's been reading RBM's posts

If CW actually moves back to LT, you called it long before anyone else.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

But find me something that shows me WHY he's a good coach, instead of giving me reasons why he wasn't able to succeed. We're all held accountable, at least most of us, for how we perform on our jobs. What single wide receiver has Drake made better? You won't find anything significant. I promise you that. Whether you be like him or not, the guy isn't a very good coach. On an already mediocre staff, he's dead weight. Spin things a thousand different ways, but thep part of the team he is in charge hasn't done well. Simple as that.

Johnny Knox. 5th round pick developed into an almost 1,000 yard WR...Drake made him better.

I think Flap has a point. Knox is a decent receiver, but the Bears have not had a 1000 yard receiver since 2002. If you are a receiver coach, and year after year your group is mediocre, at some point you have to take some responsibility for it. We have to hope that he can do a better job with this group of receivers. This certainly seems to be the best core of talent that the Bears have had in many years. If they struggle now he needs to be fired.

Chicago hasn't had a Good QB and a #1 WR since...Kramer to Conway??? I don't think it's fair to throw the builder under the bus when he has to use rotten wood to build a home.If after this year all the WRs are terrible...then yes it's Drake's fault.

I don't necessarily think it is all Drake's fault. I'm just saying that he has to take some responsibility. He has never actually had a 1000 yard receiver. There have been 163 players who have had 1000 yard seasons in his eight years coaching the Bears receivers. He has never coached one. The Bears are one of two teams that have not had a 1000 yard receiver in the last eight years. The other is the Niners. Hopefully that streak will end this year.

Don't leave out that he has had an All-Pro QB and RB at his disposal, also.Benson, Knox is all you got? Come on...

Are you really going to argue that Cutler has had good WR's to work with? Or Drake for that matter? What about that Chicago is a passing team(they aren't)?Having Matt Forte catch over 50 receptions every season he's been in the NFL hurts the WR's yardage totals.Here's a list of the top 2 WRs since Drake has been in Chicago:04=David Terrell 42 for 699 1 TDBerrian 12 for 225 2 TD05=Muhammad 64 for 750 4 TDGage 31 for 346 2 TD06=Muhammed 60 for 863 5TDBerrian 51 for 775 6 TD07Berrian 71 for 951 5 TDMuhammed 40 for 570 3 TD08=Hester 51 for 665 3 TDRashied Davis 35 for 445 2 TD09=Hester 57 for 757 3 TDBennett 54 for 717 2 TD10=Knox 51 for 960 5 TDBennett 46 for 561 3 TD11= Knox 37 for 727 2 TDRoy Williams 37 for 507 2 TDFor a team that is all about ball control, finally addressed the QB position, just now addressed the need for a #1/#2 WR and throw to their RB/TE's often...this is about what i'd expect from the WR coach. Drake had two different small school WRs almost get 1,000 yards(Berrian 951 and Knox 960). Berrian went on to never live up to the contract he signed in Minny and Knox is a 5th round pick that Drake got a lot out of his abilities.

 

[mbuehner]

I'll be the first to tell you I don't know much about Drake and don't feel qualified to say much about his coaching, but I do know that a lot of the bad things that have happened to this offense and Jay Cutler in particular stem from wide receivers running either the wrong patterns or running them badly. Knox and Hester have been pretty awful at times and its led to ints when the receivers dont finish their routes or let a guy get underneath them in a timing pattern offense (not to mention it makes Cutler look like he inexplicably throws it to a DB when he's throwing it to the spot his WR is supposed to get to). Knox arguably has gotten worse since his rookie year as far as that goes. The fact that Sanzenbacher gets on the field and becomes Cutler's safety blanket says a lot. Maybe those two are uncoachable, but if so it makes even less sense that Hester is slotted to start.

 

[DoubleG]

I'll be the first to tell you I don't know much about Drake and don't feel qualified to say much about his coaching, but I do know that a lot of the bad things that have happened to this offense and Jay Cutler in particular stem from wide receivers running either the wrong patterns or running them badly. Knox and Hester have been pretty awful at times and its led to ints when the receivers dont finish their routes or let a guy get underneath them in a timing pattern offense (not to mention it makes Cutler look like he inexplicably throws it to a DB when he's throwing it to the spot his WR is supposed to get to). Knox arguably has gotten worse since his rookie year as far as that goes. The fact that Sanzenbacher gets on the field and becomes Cutler's safety blanket says a lot. Maybe those two are uncoachable, but if so it makes even less sense that Hester is slotted to start.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD - THIS!!!!!1!!1!!

 

[Vector]

What does this mean for Earl Bennett? I figured theyd line up AJ across from Marshall and play Bennett in the slot just to get their most talent on the field together. Weird, but if AJ plays the slot he'll see more touches- figure about 80-90 targets and 50-60 catches (which is still better than he'd see with Bennett on the field full time). Thats my only problem with his fantasy potential, too many mouths to feed in Chicago all the sudden.

I'm assuming the thinking is that Hester will be getting single coverage and will be able to get open deep without safety help.

 

[flapgreen]

A Bears writer that is actually being honest along with Cutler. About time...Welcome aboard everyone. There's room enough for everyone. CHOO! CHOO!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-cutler-calls-out-oline-20120515,0,3554021.column

Steve Rosenbloom The RosenBlog

9:36 a.m. CDT, May 15, 2012

Jay Cutler apparently is fed up with being run down. And thrown down. And beaten down and beaten up.

And if the Bears quarterback had to pants his head coach to make things better, then fine, Cutler will offer cold-eyed honesty that ought to embarrass Lovie Smith.

The issue is the offensive line, such as it is, and it isn’t enough for Cutler. Speaking at a school on the South Side on Monday, Cutler sounded like a guy who doesn’t want to die young.

"The offensive line is definitely going to be a concern," Cutler said, "and seeing where those guys fit in and seeing what five we go with. You know, if Gabe (Carimi) comes back, if J'Marcus (Webb) pans out (and) Chris Williams, where we're going to put him ... there are some question marks there. Until we really get that resolved, get our front five settled, we've got some work to do on the offense."

That’s what you’d expect a coach to say, but the Bears coach hasn’t said that. He won’t. Or can’t. Whatever, it was left to the quarterback who was sacked at least 50 times the last two seasons and was on pace to reach that painful mark again last season before suffering a thumb injury.

When given a chance to make nice with his blockers, Cutler passed. He refused to say “All better’’ when tossed a softball question about new offensive coordinator Mike Tice’s tailoring an offense that includes designed rollouts, audibles and other sensible ideas that eluded the insane Mike Martz.

"It helps," Cutler said. "It's not a cure-all by any means. They're still going to be asked to protect. There are going to be times it's third-and-8, it's third-and-10, we're going to have to take seven steps, we're going to have to have a longer route, and they're going to have to protect."

Again, that’s the quarterback talking. Where’s the head coach with that kind of frankness?

Nowhere, that’s where.

Compare and contrast Cutler’s comments with the ridiculousness the head coach foisted on us during the NFL meetings in Florida two months ago.

“I don’t want to picture it as we’re looking for a left tackle," Smith said. “We feel comfortable with the two guys (J’Marcus Webb and Gabe Carimi) we started with last year. We like the group of offensive lineman we have right now. We feel we can be successful with them."

The quarterback isn’t buying what the coach was shoveling. Facing near-death will do that to you.

When told that Webb allowed a league-high 14 sacks and committed a league-high eight false starts, Smith said, "You can make a case and throw out stats on what he did. But I think it's hard for all tackles by themselves in the league to block Julius Peppers from time to time.’’

Note to Smith: Webb doesn’t block Peppers except maybe in practice, and probably not there.

Raise your hand if you believe it would take a Cutler beheading for Smith to admit the offensive line might’ve missed an assignment.

Remember when Smith was big on public accountability? Smith tends to windsock with that. He has spasms of refreshing honesty, but apparently hates himself for it, and so, he ultimately crawls back to lamely trying to defend the left tackle who led the NFL in being awful. In a court of law, Webb would be convicted of aiding and abetting, and Smith would be charged as a co-conspirator.

The quotes from Cutler and Smith differ so starkly that it’s laughable. I’ll trust the assessment from the guy taking snaps over the guy on the sideline. Cutler is running for his life. That’s intimate knowledge. Smith looks like he still can’t figure out why everybody else’s offensive line beats his three-technique.

“Any tackle in the league can look bad at times,” Smith also said in March as he vainly attempted to put a happy face on last season’s Webbisode. “There are some things we can do to help him out at times, which we plan to do. We feel we have a good plan at the left tackle position. If we end up playing J’Marcus Webb at the left tackle position, we feel comfortable with that.”

Of course Smith feels comfortable. It’s not his concussion.

The good news is, Cutler’s brain isn’t totally Jell-O’ed. He still makes sense. He gave Bears fans credit for seeing the same thing he saw --- the same thing he painfully endured. Cutler also called out his blockers, but in a way that challenged them, not coddled them the way Smith does publicly.

This wouldn’t be the first time Smith tried to make points with his locker room. I don’t know if he’s playing the media and Bears fans for stupid, but he’s playing to his profile as a player’s coach, which is code for defending the indefensible.

Smith chooses to block out all the negativity -- you know, the things we call the truth -- but at least someone can block something.

 

[DoubleG]

A Bears writer that is actually being honest along with Cutler. About time...Welcome aboard everyone. There's room enough for everyone. CHOO! CHOO!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-cutler-calls-out-oline-20120515,0,3554021.column

"The offensive line is definitely going to be a concern," Cutler said, "and seeing where those guys fit in and seeing what five we go with. You know, if Gabe (Carimi) comes back, if J'Marcus (Webb) pans out (and) Chris Williams, where we're going to put him ... there are some question marks there. Until we really get that resolved, get our front five settled, we've got some work to do on the offense."

Please note: There is a difference between "seeing where those guys fit and seeing what five we're going to go with" and "This line stinks". There is also a difference between "if J'Marcus pans out" and "Webb is the worst tackle ever! We should have replaced him in the draft or through FA".While Rosenblum supports your point to an extent - suggesting Cutler's comments do is a bit disingenous. Cutler says the guys have to block - and no one is sure what the o-line is going to look like or how effective it will be. That's not what you (and other have said). Many of the thoughts by the nay-sayers is that they will stink. I must have read a different quote than you, as I read it three times (and heard on the radio) - and didn't hear anywhere where Cutler said the line will be bad.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

A Bears writer that is actually being honest along with Cutler. About time...Welcome aboard everyone. There's room enough for everyone. CHOO! CHOO!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-cutler-calls-out-oline-20120515,0,3554021.column

"The offensive line is definitely going to be a concern," Cutler said, "and seeing where those guys fit in and seeing what five we go with. You know, if Gabe (Carimi) comes back, if J'Marcus (Webb) pans out (and) Chris Williams, where we're going to put him ... there are some question marks there. Until we really get that resolved, get our front five settled, we've got some work to do on the offense."

Please note: There is a difference between "seeing where those guys fit and seeing what five we're going to go with" and "This line stinks". There is also a difference between "if J'Marcus pans out" and "Webb is the worst tackle ever! We should have replaced him in the draft or through FA".While Rosenblum supports your point to an extent - suggesting Cutler's comments do is a bit disingenous. Cutler says the guys have to block - and no one is sure what the o-line is going to look like or how effective it will be. That's not what you (and other have said). Many of the thoughts by the nay-sayers is that they will stink. I must have read a different quote than you, as I read it three times (and heard on the radio) - and didn't hear anywhere where Cutler said the line will be bad.

This has been my stance...not completely negative...but Flap doesn't like it ever.

 

[RBM]

A Bears writer that is actually being honest along with Cutler. About time...Welcome aboard everyone. There's room enough for everyone. CHOO! CHOO!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-cutler-calls-out-oline-20120515,0,3554021.column

"The offensive line is definitely going to be a concern," Cutler said, "and seeing where those guys fit in and seeing what five we go with. You know, if Gabe (Carimi) comes back, if J'Marcus (Webb) pans out (and) Chris Williams, where we're going to put him ... there are some question marks there. Until we really get that resolved, get our front five settled, we've got some work to do on the offense."

Please note: There is a difference between "seeing where those guys fit and seeing what five we're going to go with" and "This line stinks". There is also a difference between "if J'Marcus pans out" and "Webb is the worst tackle ever! We should have replaced him in the draft or through FA".While Rosenblum supports your point to an extent - suggesting Cutler's comments do is a bit disingenous. Cutler says the guys have to block - and no one is sure what the o-line is going to look like or how effective it will be. That's not what you (and other have said). Many of the thoughts by the nay-sayers is that they will stink. I must have read a different quote than you, as I read it three times (and heard on the radio) - and didn't hear anywhere where Cutler said the line will be bad.

Read between the lines man....and realize Jay is most likely trying to be as diplomatic as possible.

 

[flapgreen]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

 

[flapgreen]

A Bears writer that is actually being honest along with Cutler. About time...Welcome aboard everyone. There's room enough for everyone. CHOO! CHOO!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-cutler-calls-out-oline-20120515,0,3554021.column

"The offensive line is definitely going to be a concern," Cutler said, "and seeing where those uguys fit in and seeing what five we go with. You know, if Gabe (Carimi) comes back, if J'Marcus (Webb) pans out (and) Chris Williams, where we're going to put him ... there are some question marks there. Until we really get that resolved, get our front five settled, we've got some work to do on the offense."

Please note: There is a difference between "seeing where those guys fit and seeing what five we're going to go with" and "This line stinks". There is also a difference between "if J'Marcus pans out" and "Webb is the worst tackle ever! We should have replaced him in the draft or through FA".While Rosenblum supports your point to an extent - suggesting Cutler's comments do is a bit disingenous. Cutler says the guys have to block - and no one is sure what the o-line is going to look like or how effective it will be. That's not what you (and other have said). Many of the thoughts by the nay-sayers is that they will stink. I must have read a different quote than you, as I read it three times (and heard on the radio) - and didn't hear anywhere where Cutler said the line will be bad.

What do you expect him to say? The guy can't just come out and say the line has been a disaster, or he would look like Santonio Holmes. I have a ton of respect for Jay keeping his mouth shut for this long. I think it's fairly obvious what Jay is saying here, but there's no way of knowing for sure.

 

[flapgreen]

A Bears writer that is actually being honest along with Cutler. About time...Welcome aboard everyone. There's room enough for everyone. CHOO! CHOO!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-cutler-calls-out-oline-20120515,0,3554021.column

"The offensive line is definitely going to be a concern," Cutler said, "and seeing where those guys fit in and seeing what five we go with. You know, if Gabe (Carimi) comes back, if J'Marcus (Webb) pans out (and) Chris Williams, where we're going to put him ... there are some question marks there. Until we really get that resolved, get our front five settled, we've got some work to do on the offense."

Please note: There is a difference between "seeing where those guys fit and seeing what five we're going to go with" and "This line stinks". There is also a difference between "if J'Marcus pans out" and "Webb is the worst tackle ever! We should have replaced him in the draft or through FA".While Rosenblum supports your point to an extent - suggesting Cutler's comments do is a bit disingenous. Cutler says the guys have to block - and no one is sure what the o-line is going to look like or how effective it will be. That's not what you (and other have said). Many of the thoughts by the nay-sayers is that they will stink. I must have read a different quote than you, as I read it three times (and heard on the radio) - and didn't hear anywhere where Cutler said the line will be bad.

This has been my stance...not completely negative...but Flap doesn't like it ever.

I love you brother.

 

[mbuehner]

Publicly wondering if the guy you have slotted as your starting left tackle is going to 'pan out' is a pretty big indictment imo. Flap is right, what could else could he possibly say without looking terrible?

 

[RBM]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

 

[mbuehner]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

Wellll, the problem with that is tackles get bullrushed as well... and its a lot harder on a tackle because they have to be reading the rusher if he's making an outside move so their balance is more likely to be precarious. Thats why tackles are so coveted. If you cant play guard you certainly cant play tackle. I'm not entirely down on Williams but with his injury history and inconsistent career to date I think you have to be crazy to pencil him in with no reservations- the same goes for Webb (inconsistency), and the same goes for Carimi (injury history). How can you glibly assume 2 out of 3 of those choices will be available and successful at all times over 16 games? And if an undrafted rookie free agent is your safety net... it just seems entirely reckless to me.

 

[twistd]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

Wellll, the problem with that is tackles get bullrushed as well... and its a lot harder on a tackle because they have to be reading the rusher if he's making an outside move so their balance is more likely to be precarious. Thats why tackles are so coveted. If you cant play guard you certainly cant play tackle. I'm not entirely down on Williams but with his injury history and inconsistent career to date I think you have to be crazy to pencil him in with no reservations- the same goes for Webb (inconsistency), and the same goes for Carimi (injury history). How can you glibly assume 2 out of 3 of those choices will be available and successful at all times over 16 games? And if an undrafted rookie free agent is your safety net... it just seems entirely reckless to me.

I agree completely. Although I wouldn't say Carimi has an injury history, but there is a concern about whether he will be 100% at the start of the season. You never see guys who struggle at guard succeeding at tackle. You will see guys like Robert Gallery, who are originally drafted to play tackle who struggle at tackle and eventually succeed at guard. But it doesn't happen the other way around. You pointed out the problem extremely well. It would be one thing if Carimi and Webb had both been solid last year. I still wouldn't like Chris Williams has your primary back up, but you could probably live with that. But when you don't the health of Carimi and Webb is such a question mark, it is extremely risky.

 

[RBM]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

Wellll, the problem with that is tackles get bullrushed as well... and its a lot harder on a tackle because they have to be reading the rusher if he's making an outside move so their balance is more likely to be precarious. Thats why tackles are so coveted. If you cant play guard you certainly cant play tackle. I'm not entirely down on Williams but with his injury history and inconsistent career to date I think you have to be crazy to pencil him in with no reservations- the same goes for Webb (inconsistency), and the same goes for Carimi (injury history). How can you glibly assume 2 out of 3 of those choices will be available and successful at all times over 16 games? And if an undrafted rookie free agent is your safety net... it just seems entirely reckless to me.

Agree. Its not an ideal situation. But since they didnt think it was necessary to go outside to add talent, I am glad Williams is getting another shot. I really dont want to see Webb handed that job.Big difference when the bullrusher is a 265lb end, than a 320lb tackle. Williams is not suited to handle that kind of physicality.

 

[RBM]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

Wellll, the problem with that is tackles get bullrushed as well... and its a lot harder on a tackle because they have to be reading the rusher if he's making an outside move so their balance is more likely to be precarious. Thats why tackles are so coveted. If you cant play guard you certainly cant play tackle. I'm not entirely down on Williams but with his injury history and inconsistent career to date I think you have to be crazy to pencil him in with no reservations- the same goes for Webb (inconsistency), and the same goes for Carimi (injury history). How can you glibly assume 2 out of 3 of those choices will be available and successful at all times over 16 games? And if an undrafted rookie free agent is your safety net... it just seems entirely reckless to me.

You never see guys who struggle at guard succeeding at tackle. You will see guys like Robert Gallery, who are originally drafted to play tackle who struggle at tackle and eventually succeed at guard.

Gallery is a big, tough man...very physical. Williams is finesse. Nothing alike.

 

[mbuehner]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

Wellll, the problem with that is tackles get bullrushed as well... and its a lot harder on a tackle because they have to be reading the rusher if he's making an outside move so their balance is more likely to be precarious. Thats why tackles are so coveted. If you cant play guard you certainly cant play tackle. I'm not entirely down on Williams but with his injury history and inconsistent career to date I think you have to be crazy to pencil him in with no reservations- the same goes for Webb (inconsistency), and the same goes for Carimi (injury history). How can you glibly assume 2 out of 3 of those choices will be available and successful at all times over 16 games? And if an undrafted rookie free agent is your safety net... it just seems entirely reckless to me.

Agree. Its not an ideal situation. But since they didnt think it was necessary to go outside to add talent, I am glad Williams is getting another shot. I really dont want to see Webb handed that job.Big difference when the bullrusher is a 265lb end, than a 320lb tackle. Williams is not suited to handle that kind of physicality.

Yeah but there are more bad match ups with defensive ends than defensive tackles in the league- monster DEs are more rare than good LTs... the best size/power combos generally get moved to end to come off the edge. If you can't handle Hainsworth running you over, Justin Tuck and Mario are going to destroy you at tackle, cuz you dont know if theyre gonna run you over or just run past you on a given play. There aren't as many dominant tackles in the league to worry about, but almost every week you will play a big time end or rush linebacker.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

Wellll, the problem with that is tackles get bullrushed as well... and its a lot harder on a tackle because they have to be reading the rusher if he's making an outside move so their balance is more likely to be precarious. Thats why tackles are so coveted. If you cant play guard you certainly cant play tackle. I'm not entirely down on Williams but with his injury history and inconsistent career to date I think you have to be crazy to pencil him in with no reservations- the same goes for Webb (inconsistency), and the same goes for Carimi (injury history). How can you glibly assume 2 out of 3 of those choices will be available and successful at all times over 16 games? And if an undrafted rookie free agent is your safety net... it just seems entirely reckless to me.

Agree. Its not an ideal situation. But since they didnt think it was necessary to go outside to add talent, I am glad Williams is getting another shot. I really dont want to see Webb handed that job.Big difference when the bullrusher is a 265lb end, than a 320lb tackle. Williams is not suited to handle that kind of physicality.

Yeah but there are more bad match ups with defensive ends than defensive tackles in the league- monster DEs are more rare than good LTs... the best size/power combos generally get moved to end to come off the edge. If you can't handle Hainsworth running you over, Justin Tuck and Mario are going to destroy you at tackle, cuz you dont know if theyre gonna run you over or just run past you on a given play. There aren't as many dominant tackles in the league to worry about, but almost every week you will play a big time end or rush linebacker.

For Williams' skill set...he would rather face a DE vs Haynesworth.

 

[RBM]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

Wellll, the problem with that is tackles get bullrushed as well... and its a lot harder on a tackle because they have to be reading the rusher if he's making an outside move so their balance is more likely to be precarious. Thats why tackles are so coveted. If you cant play guard you certainly cant play tackle. I'm not entirely down on Williams but with his injury history and inconsistent career to date I think you have to be crazy to pencil him in with no reservations- the same goes for Webb (inconsistency), and the same goes for Carimi (injury history). How can you glibly assume 2 out of 3 of those choices will be available and successful at all times over 16 games? And if an undrafted rookie free agent is your safety net... it just seems entirely reckless to me.

Agree. Its not an ideal situation. But since they didnt think it was necessary to go outside to add talent, I am glad Williams is getting another shot. I really dont want to see Webb handed that job.Big difference when the bullrusher is a 265lb end, than a 320lb tackle. Williams is not suited to handle that kind of physicality.

Yeah but there are more bad match ups with defensive ends than defensive tackles in the league- monster DEs are more rare than good LTs... the best size/power combos generally get moved to end to come off the edge. If you can't handle Hainsworth running you over, Justin Tuck and Mario are going to destroy you at tackle, cuz you dont know if theyre gonna run you over or just run past you on a given play. There aren't as many dominant tackles in the league to worry about, but almost every week you will play a big time end or rush linebacker.

For Williams' skill set...he would rather face a DE vs Haynesworth.

Exactly. Thank you. Williams is better off facing Jared Allen than Donky Kong Suh

 

[mbuehner]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

Wellll, the problem with that is tackles get bullrushed as well... and its a lot harder on a tackle because they have to be reading the rusher if he's making an outside move so their balance is more likely to be precarious. Thats why tackles are so coveted. If you cant play guard you certainly cant play tackle. I'm not entirely down on Williams but with his injury history and inconsistent career to date I think you have to be crazy to pencil him in with no reservations- the same goes for Webb (inconsistency), and the same goes for Carimi (injury history). How can you glibly assume 2 out of 3 of those choices will be available and successful at all times over 16 games? And if an undrafted rookie free agent is your safety net... it just seems entirely reckless to me.

Agree. Its not an ideal situation. But since they didnt think it was necessary to go outside to add talent, I am glad Williams is getting another shot. I really dont want to see Webb handed that job.Big difference when the bullrusher is a 265lb end, than a 320lb tackle. Williams is not suited to handle that kind of physicality.

Yeah but there are more bad match ups with defensive ends than defensive tackles in the league- monster DEs are more rare than good LTs... the best size/power combos generally get moved to end to come off the edge. If you can't handle Hainsworth running you over, Justin Tuck and Mario are going to destroy you at tackle, cuz you dont know if theyre gonna run you over or just run past you on a given play. There aren't as many dominant tackles in the league to worry about, but almost every week you will play a big time end or rush linebacker.

For Williams' skill set...he would rather face a DE vs Haynesworth.

Exactly. Thank you. Williams is better off facing Jared Allen than Donky Kong Suh

I get who he'd rather face, but he doesnt get to pick. There aren't a lot of Suhs in the league, there are a lot more great DEs. For his skillset i'd like to see Williams face the least skilled players possible, period. And he'll see less talent across at guard than he will lined up outside. Moreover if he gets run over inside at least the QB can see it coming.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I get who he'd rather face, but he doesnt get to pick. There aren't a lot of Suhs in the league, there are a lot more great DEs. For his skillset i'd like to see Williams face the least skilled players possible, period. And he'll see less talent across at guard than he will lined up outside. Moreover if he gets run over inside at least the QB can see it coming.

This is where you're continually wrong. Williams is 6'6 315, athletic, but not a ton of strength. His skill set is using his long frame to keep pass rushers at bay. The DT's of the world can get inside of his long frame and throw him around.Lets review his career:-2008 first round pick-2008 back injury sets him back and he had limited playing time his rookie year-2009 11 starts at RT and 5 at LT(including shutting down Jared Allen)-2010 Starts at LT before hamstring injury. -2010 Moves inside to LG-Starts 20 straight games at LG until breaks his wrist in week 9 2011.Injuries robbed him of a chance at LT...not poor play.

 

[mbuehner]

I get who he'd rather face, but he doesnt get to pick. There aren't a lot of Suhs in the league, there are a lot more great DEs. For his skillset i'd like to see Williams face the least skilled players possible, period. And he'll see less talent across at guard than he will lined up outside. Moreover if he gets run over inside at least the QB can see it coming.

This is where you're continually wrong. Williams is 6'6 315, athletic, but not a ton of strength. His skill set is using his long frame to keep pass rushers at bay. The DT's of the world can get inside of his long frame and throw him around.Lets review his career:-2008 first round pick-2008 back injury sets him back and he had limited playing time his rookie year-2009 11 starts at RT and 5 at LT(including shutting down Jared Allen)-2010 Starts at LT before hamstring injury. -2010 Moves inside to LG-Starts 20 straight games at LG until breaks his wrist in week 9 2011.Injuries robbed him of a chance at LT...not poor play.

So why cant the DEs and OLBs of the world get inside his long frame and throw him around? Why have I never heard the phrase 'He's good enough to play tackle, but he can't play guard'? DT and DE are roughly analogous to OG and OT- the better, more athletic players (who are often the strongest as well) play the outside (with a very few exceptions in the mold of Warran Sap or Suh who can be disruptive from anywhere) and the inside players are the guys not quite good enough pass rushers. You think Terrell Suggs or Demarcus Ware aren't as strong as generic defensive tackles and can't toss Williams around on the outside as easy as anywhere else? The top 30 sack leaders last season were DEs and OLBs. Playing guard is much, much less demanding than playing tackle no matter what skillset you are talking about. Part of that is the demands of the position, a big part is the level of pass rushing talent you are matched up against.Injuries are party of William's design, he's got a bad back and having to be more athletic out on the end isn't going to help with that.

 

[jdswan922]

Just read on ESPN that there will be no charges against Marshall. Sorry, on my phone so no link.

 

[The_Wolfman]

Just read on ESPN that there will be no charges against Marshall. Sorry, on my phone so no link.

It's up on rotoworld too: http://rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/233512/marshall-to-escape-charges-in-nightclub-fightGreat news for Marshall and the Bears! Maybe he was really innocent all along?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I get who he'd rather face, but he doesnt get to pick. There aren't a lot of Suhs in the league, there are a lot more great DEs. For his skillset i'd like to see Williams face the least skilled players possible, period. And he'll see less talent across at guard than he will lined up outside. Moreover if he gets run over inside at least the QB can see it coming.

This is where you're continually wrong. Williams is 6'6 315, athletic, but not a ton of strength. His skill set is using his long frame to keep pass rushers at bay. The DT's of the world can get inside of his long frame and throw him around.Lets review his career:-2008 first round pick-2008 back injury sets him back and he had limited playing time his rookie year-2009 11 starts at RT and 5 at LT(including shutting down Jared Allen)-2010 Starts at LT before hamstring injury. -2010 Moves inside to LG-Starts 20 straight games at LG until breaks his wrist in week 9 2011.Injuries robbed him of a chance at LT...not poor play.

So why cant the DEs and OLBs of the world get inside his long frame and throw him around? Why have I never heard the phrase 'He's good enough to play tackle, but he can't play guard'? DT and DE are roughly analogous to OG and OT- the better, more athletic players (who are often the strongest as well) play the outside (with a very few exceptions in the mold of Warran Sap or Suh who can be disruptive from anywhere) and the inside players are the guys not quite good enough pass rushers. You think Terrell Suggs or Demarcus Ware aren't as strong as generic defensive tackles and can't toss Williams around on the outside as easy as anywhere else? The top 30 sack leaders last season were DEs and OLBs. Playing guard is much, much less demanding than playing tackle no matter what skillset you are talking about. Part of that is the demands of the position, a big part is the level of pass rushing talent you are matched up against.Injuries are party of William's design, he's got a bad back and having to be more athletic out on the end isn't going to help with that.

DEs have one on one matchups plenty more times than DTs....you know that guy called the CENTER is always in the way helping out the Guards.DEs also have more space for all of their moves. DTs have to work in confined spaces.DEs also get coverage sacks because they can run all around the edge and then comeback to the QB...when DTs don't have that luxary.DTs aren't always asked to rush the passer...sometimes they are trying to occupy OL and prevent screens/draws/QBs to run.

 

[twistd]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

Wellll, the problem with that is tackles get bullrushed as well... and its a lot harder on a tackle because they have to be reading the rusher if he's making an outside move so their balance is more likely to be precarious. Thats why tackles are so coveted. If you cant play guard you certainly cant play tackle. I'm not entirely down on Williams but with his injury history and inconsistent career to date I think you have to be crazy to pencil him in with no reservations- the same goes for Webb (inconsistency), and the same goes for Carimi (injury history). How can you glibly assume 2 out of 3 of those choices will be available and successful at all times over 16 games? And if an undrafted rookie free agent is your safety net... it just seems entirely reckless to me.

You never see guys who struggle at guard succeeding at tackle. You will see guys like Robert Gallery, who are originally drafted to play tackle who struggle at tackle and eventually succeed at guard.

Gallery is a big, tough man...very physical. Williams is finesse. Nothing alike.

The point is that you never see players who are mediocre at guard that switch and succeed at tackle. Tackle is much tougher to play than guard. Can you think of a single example of a player who struggled at guard and then succeeded at tackle? It doesn't happen. I just don't think that Williams is the exception to this.

 

[mbuehner]

I get who he'd rather face, but he doesnt get to pick. There aren't a lot of Suhs in the league, there are a lot more great DEs. For his skillset i'd like to see Williams face the least skilled players possible, period. And he'll see less talent across at guard than he will lined up outside. Moreover if he gets run over inside at least the QB can see it coming.

This is where you're continually wrong. Williams is 6'6 315, athletic, but not a ton of strength. His skill set is using his long frame to keep pass rushers at bay. The DT's of the world can get inside of his long frame and throw him around.Lets review his career:-2008 first round pick-2008 back injury sets him back and he had limited playing time his rookie year-2009 11 starts at RT and 5 at LT(including shutting down Jared Allen)-2010 Starts at LT before hamstring injury. -2010 Moves inside to LG-Starts 20 straight games at LG until breaks his wrist in week 9 2011.Injuries robbed him of a chance at LT...not poor play.

So why cant the DEs and OLBs of the world get inside his long frame and throw him around? Why have I never heard the phrase 'He's good enough to play tackle, but he can't play guard'? DT and DE are roughly analogous to OG and OT- the better, more athletic players (who are often the strongest as well) play the outside (with a very few exceptions in the mold of Warran Sap or Suh who can be disruptive from anywhere) and the inside players are the guys not quite good enough pass rushers. You think Terrell Suggs or Demarcus Ware aren't as strong as generic defensive tackles and can't toss Williams around on the outside as easy as anywhere else? The top 30 sack leaders last season were DEs and OLBs. Playing guard is much, much less demanding than playing tackle no matter what skillset you are talking about. Part of that is the demands of the position, a big part is the level of pass rushing talent you are matched up against.Injuries are party of William's design, he's got a bad back and having to be more athletic out on the end isn't going to help with that.

DEs have one on one matchups plenty more times than DTs....you know that guy called the CENTER is always in the way helping out the Guards.DEs also have more space for all of their moves. DTs have to work in confined spaces.DEs also get coverage sacks because they can run all around the edge and then comeback to the QB...when DTs don't have that luxary.DTs aren't always asked to rush the passer...sometimes they are trying to occupy OL and prevent screens/draws/QBs to run.

Ah, so now youre arguing that guards have an easier time than tackles. How does that help your case? Will Williams be better off without all those advantages you just named? Look, this isnt really a debate. Follow the money- ends get drafted and paid significantly higher on average than d tackles, just as offensive tackles do over guards. They are a hotter commodity. There are a very very few exceptional exceptions to that on d lines. As far as i know there are NO exceptions on o-lines, the tackles are the suprior talent.

 

[DoubleG]

Ah, so now youre arguing that guards have an easier time than tackles. How does that help your case? Will Williams be better off without all those advantages you just named? Look, this isnt really a debate. Follow the money- ends get drafted and paid significantly higher on average than d tackles, just as offensive tackles do over guards. They are a hotter commodity. There are a very very few exceptional exceptions to that on d lines. As far as i know there are NO exceptions on o-lines, the tackles are the suprior talent.

I think his point (and I may be wrong - and I am not necessarily agreeing with either of you) is that it's not quite fair to suggest that tackles are simply "better" than guards. The skillset required to succeed at either are similar but not the same. Guards tend to be (and need to be) bigger, stronger and have a better lower base - but they do not have to be quick footed or have strong/long arms, as they are working in tight spaces, where speed rushing is less of a threat than power.Tackles, while they certainly need to be large, need to be more nimble on their feet and posess more upper body strength to be able to manuever DEs outside and push them past the corner rush. His point seems to be that Williams has the quickness, upper body strength and techinique more suited to being a tackle, moreso than the size and brute strength required to be a good guard. In reverse of your argument, I would suggest that the NFL has many good guards that would be terrible tackles. The two are different positions, requiring different skill subsets (although size and strength are necessary for both). To what degree they differ, and to what degree Williams can play either is certainly up for discussion. But to simply suggest he's not good at one, therefore he won't be good at the other isn't entirely accurate (unless he was 5'9" and 220).

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Ah, so now youre arguing that guards have an easier time than tackles. How does that help your case? Will Williams be better off without all those advantages you just named? Look, this isnt really a debate. Follow the money- ends get drafted and paid significantly higher on average than d tackles, just as offensive tackles do over guards. They are a hotter commodity. There are a very very few exceptional exceptions to that on d lines. As far as i know there are NO exceptions on o-lines, the tackles are the suprior talent.

I think his point (and I may be wrong - and I am not necessarily agreeing with either of you) is that it's not quite fair to suggest that tackles are simply "better" than guards. The skillset required to succeed at either are similar but not the same. Guards tend to be (and need to be) bigger, stronger and have a better lower base - but they do not have to be quick footed or have strong/long arms, as they are working in tight spaces, where speed rushing is less of a threat than power.Tackles, while they certainly need to be large, need to be more nimble on their feet and posess more upper body strength to be able to manuever DEs outside and push them past the corner rush. His point seems to be that Williams has the quickness, upper body strength and techinique more suited to being a tackle, moreso than the size and brute strength required to be a good guard. In reverse of your argument, I would suggest that the NFL has many good guards that would be terrible tackles. The two are different positions, requiring different skill subsets (although size and strength are necessary for both). To what degree they differ, and to what degree Williams can play either is certainly up for discussion. But to simply suggest he's not good at one, therefore he won't be good at the other isn't entirely accurate (unless he was 5'9" and 220).

Ding ding ding

 

[mbuehner]

I think his point (and I may be wrong - and I am not necessarily agreeing with either of you) is that it's not quite fair to suggest that tackles are simply "better" than guards. The skillset required to succeed at either are similar but not the same. Guards tend to be (and need to be) bigger, stronger and have a better lower base - but they do not have to be quick footed or have strong/long arms, as they are working in tight spaces, where speed rushing is less of a threat than power.Tackles, while they certainly need to be large, need to be more nimble on their feet and posess more upper body strength to be able to manuever DEs outside and push them past the corner rush. His point seems to be that Williams has the quickness, upper body strength and techinique more suited to being a tackle, moreso than the size and brute strength required to be a good guard. In reverse of your argument, I would suggest that the NFL has many good guards that would be terrible tackles. The two are different positions, requiring different skill subsets (although size and strength are necessary for both). To what degree they differ, and to what degree Williams can play either is certainly up for discussion. But to simply suggest he's not good at one, therefore he won't be good at the other isn't entirely accurate (unless he was 5'9" and 220).

And my point is tackles need to do everything guards can do plus more. Can anybody name a tackle in the league that couldn't play guard if called upon? I can name you any number of the reverse.

 

[RBM]

Wright saying CW likely moving back to OT. Looks like you were right, RBM. I thought he played relatively well at guard, so I don't understand why they are moving him, other than not having any other options.

His skill set is much more suited to tackle. Watch that video of what Haynesworth did to him....he aint no guard.Glad they are giving him another shot.

Wellll, the problem with that is tackles get bullrushed as well... and its a lot harder on a tackle because they have to be reading the rusher if he's making an outside move so their balance is more likely to be precarious. Thats why tackles are so coveted. If you cant play guard you certainly cant play tackle. I'm not entirely down on Williams but with his injury history and inconsistent career to date I think you have to be crazy to pencil him in with no reservations- the same goes for Webb (inconsistency), and the same goes for Carimi (injury history). How can you glibly assume 2 out of 3 of those choices will be available and successful at all times over 16 games? And if an undrafted rookie free agent is your safety net... it just seems entirely reckless to me.

You never see guys who struggle at guard succeeding at tackle. You will see guys like Robert Gallery, who are originally drafted to play tackle who struggle at tackle and eventually succeed at guard.

Gallery is a big, tough man...very physical. Williams is finesse. Nothing alike.

The point is that you never see players who are mediocre at guard that switch and succeed at tackle. Tackle is much tougher to play than guard. Can you think of a single example of a player who struggled at guard and then succeeded at tackle? It doesn't happen. I just don't think that Williams is the exception to this.

Williams IS NOT A GUARD....NEVER WAS

 

[RBM]

Ah, so now youre arguing that guards have an easier time than tackles. How does that help your case? Will Williams be better off without all those advantages you just named? Look, this isnt really a debate. Follow the money- ends get drafted and paid significantly higher on average than d tackles, just as offensive tackles do over guards. They are a hotter commodity. There are a very very few exceptional exceptions to that on d lines. As far as i know there are NO exceptions on o-lines, the tackles are the suprior talent.

I think his point (and I may be wrong - and I am not necessarily agreeing with either of you) is that it's not quite fair to suggest that tackles are simply "better" than guards. The skillset required to succeed at either are similar but not the same. Guards tend to be (and need to be) bigger, stronger and have a better lower base - but they do not have to be quick footed or have strong/long arms, as they are working in tight spaces, where speed rushing is less of a threat than power.Tackles, while they certainly need to be large, need to be more nimble on their feet and posess more upper body strength to be able to manuever DEs outside and push them past the corner rush. His point seems to be that Williams has the quickness, upper body strength and techinique more suited to being a tackle, moreso than the size and brute strength required to be a good guard. In reverse of your argument, I would suggest that the NFL has many good guards that would be terrible tackles. The two are different positions, requiring different skill subsets (although size and strength are necessary for both). To what degree they differ, and to what degree Williams can play either is certainly up for discussion. But to simply suggest he's not good at one, therefore he won't be good at the other isn't entirely accurate (unless he was 5'9" and 220).

 

[RBM]

And to suggest thats its as simple as "better players play end on D and tackle on O" is completely off. They are different positions, require different skills to do different jobs. They are not interchangeable.

 

[mbuehner]

And to suggest thats its as simple as "better players play end on D and tackle on O" is completely off. They are different positions, require different skills to do different jobs. They are not interchangeable.

And yet, here we are.I'm confused- if Williams is a tackle, why did he play guard last year when luminaries like Lance Lewis, Frank Omiyale, and J'Marcus Webb got plucked to play the position? This conversation seems to have rapidly moving goalposts- the Bears have been plugging in guys all over the place... but positions aren't interchangeable... but they don't need any new faces on the o-line. All of those can't be simultaneously true.

 

[Statcruncher]

Can we declare a moratorium on o-line talk, at least until teams start making cuts that could the Bears could sign? It's getting all timschochet'ed up in here rehashing the same stuff.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

And to suggest thats its as simple as "better players play end on D and tackle on O" is completely off. They are different positions, require different skills to do different jobs. They are not interchangeable.

And yet, here we are.I'm confused- if Williams is a tackle, why did he play guard last year when luminaries like Lance Lewis, Frank Omiyale, and J'Marcus Webb got plucked to play the position? This conversation seems to have rapidly moving goalposts- the Bears have been plugging in guys all over the place... but positions aren't interchangeable... but they don't need any new faces on the o-line. All of those can't be simultaneously true.

You're the only one fighting the battle that ALL OTs can move into Guard...etc.Williams played Guard because he was recovering from a hamstring. Perhaps he didn't have the same athleticism to go back out to LT...so he played LG because he was an upgrade there.His body, strength, athleticism all favor he is a better LT than Guard.

 

[mlball77]

Do you think CHI looks at Winslow now that he is on his way out of TB? Here is a blurb from Rotoworld today.

(Rotoworld) The Chicago Tribune reports the Bears and Bucs discussed a Kellen Winslow trade following the start of free agency.Analysis: More specifically, the Bucs were "were working to trade" Winslow to the Bears. It appears Chicago was more focused on closing its deal for Brandon Marshall. The Bears used a fourth-round pick on TE Evan Rodriguez, but are still one of the league's thinner teams at tight end. If they're at all interested in Winslow, however, it's more likely they'd wait for him to be released than trying to acquire him.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Do you think CHI looks at Winslow now that he is on his way out of TB? Here is a blurb from Rotoworld today.

(Rotoworld) The Chicago Tribune reports the Bears and Bucs discussed a Kellen Winslow trade following the start of free agency.Analysis: More specifically, the Bucs were "were working to trade" Winslow to the Bears. It appears Chicago was more focused on closing its deal for Brandon Marshall. The Bears used a fourth-round pick on TE Evan Rodriguez, but are still one of the league's thinner teams at tight end. If they're at all interested in Winslow, however, it's more likely they'd wait for him to be released than trying to acquire him.

I would just wait until they release Winslow or he has to restructure his contract. Here is the rest of his deal: 2012=3.5 million, 2013=4.5, 2014=5.5. Plus 7 million dollars could be earned through incentives. I wouldn't pay that for a TE with bad knees and turns 29 soon.

 

[mlball77]

Do you think CHI looks at Winslow now that he is on his way out of TB? Here is a blurb from Rotoworld today.

(Rotoworld) The Chicago Tribune reports the Bears and Bucs discussed a Kellen Winslow trade following the start of free agency.Analysis: More specifically, the Bucs were "were working to trade" Winslow to the Bears. It appears Chicago was more focused on closing its deal for Brandon Marshall. The Bears used a fourth-round pick on TE Evan Rodriguez, but are still one of the league's thinner teams at tight end. If they're at all interested in Winslow, however, it's more likely they'd wait for him to be released than trying to acquire him.

I would just wait until they release Winslow or he has to restructure his contract. Here is the rest of his deal: 2012=3.5 million, 2013=4.5, 2014=5.5. Plus 7 million dollars could be earned through incentives. I wouldn't pay that for a TE with bad knees and turns 29 soon.

Yeah, I think I'm with ya on this. CHI could use some help at TE, imo, but not at that cost/risk.