Chow, Fish re: Vince Young (1 Viewer)

[the hairy scotsman]

Chow & Fisher

"I think he can almost, corny as it sounds, redefine what the quarterback position should be like because he's so big and he throws the ball well and he can run," Chow said Wednesday of the Tennessee Titans' rookie quarterback.

"I don't think I've seen a young quarterback learn as fast as he did," Fisher said. "He's got the poise, composure and ability to stay calm in critical situations and make plays."

 

[Da Guru]

Chow & Fisher

"I think he can almost, corny as it sounds, redefine what the quarterback position should be like because he's so big and he throws the ball well and he can run," Chow said Wednesday of the Tennessee Titans' rookie quarterback.

"I don't think I've seen a young quarterback learn as fast as he did," Fisher said. "He's got the poise, composure and ability to stay calm in critical situations and make plays."

I think Atlanta thought Vick would be this way..too bad things never worked out. Young has surpassed Vick already.

 

[Banger]

Chow & Fisher

"I think he can almost, corny as it sounds, redefine what the quarterback position should be like because he's so big and he throws the ball well and he can run," Chow said Wednesday of the Tennessee Titans' rookie quarterback.

"I don't think I've seen a young quarterback learn as fast as he did," Fisher said. "He's got the poise, composure and ability to stay calm in critical situations and make plays."

I think Atlanta thought Vick would be this way..too bad things never worked out. Young has surpassed Vick already.

Don't forget that Vick regressed/the league caught up with him. VY has started out great but the key will be over the next year or so once teams get tape on him and figure what works to stop him and what doesn't. At the end of the day VY's continued progress will depend on how he develops as a passer. If he continues to improve, I can see him as a McNabb type qb, if he doesn't he'll be a less explosive Vick.

 

[BigJim®]

Chow & Fisher

"I think he can almost, corny as it sounds, redefine what the quarterback position should be like because he's so big and he throws the ball well and he can run," Chow said Wednesday of the Tennessee Titans' rookie quarterback.

"I don't think I've seen a young quarterback learn as fast as he did," Fisher said. "He's got the poise, composure and ability to stay calm in critical situations and make plays."

How are those guys authorities on Vince Young? Nice try, but I'm going with LHUCKS' biased opinion on this one.

 

[cstu]

Chow & Fisher

"I think he can almost, corny as it sounds, redefine what the quarterback position should be like because he's so big and he throws the ball well and he can run," Chow said Wednesday of the Tennessee Titans' rookie quarterback.

"I don't think I've seen a young quarterback learn as fast as he did," Fisher said. "He's got the poise, composure and ability to stay calm in critical situations and make plays."

I think Atlanta thought Vick would be this way..too bad things never worked out. Young has surpassed Vick already.

 

[Warpig]

Chow & Fisher

"I think he can almost, corny as it sounds, redefine what the quarterback position should be like because he's so big and he throws the ball well and he can run," Chow said Wednesday of the Tennessee Titans' rookie quarterback.

"I don't think I've seen a young quarterback learn as fast as he did," Fisher said. "He's got the poise, composure and ability to stay calm in critical situations and make plays."

I think Atlanta thought Vick would be this way..too bad things never worked out. Young has surpassed Vick already.

Don't forget that Vick regressed/the league caught up with him. VY has started out great but the key will be over the next year or so once teams get tape on him and figure what works to stop him and what doesn't. At the end of the day VY's continued progress will depend on how he develops as a passer. If he continues to improve, I can see him as a McNabb type qb, if he doesn't he'll be a less explosive Vick.

VY has been able to have his ways with opposing defenses so far. But let's wait until next year when teams have prepared for him and laid out gameplans that they've worked on all off season. I've been curbing my enthusiasm so far because I'm afraid that next year he'll be brought back down to Earth somewhat.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Chow & Fisher

"I think he can almost, corny as it sounds, redefine what the quarterback position should be like because he's so big and he throws the ball well and he can run," Chow said Wednesday of the Tennessee Titans' rookie quarterback.

"I don't think I've seen a young quarterback learn as fast as he did," Fisher said. "He's got the poise, composure and ability to stay calm in critical situations and make plays."

How are those guys authorities on Vince Young? Nice try, but I'm going with LHUCKS' biased opinion on this one.

Here are Bobby Bowden, Greg Davis, and Reggie Collier on Young...

This summer at ACC media day, the exploits of Young were still on the mind of 76-year-old Bobby Bowden, who needed no YouTube reminder. "The next 10 years, all you're going to see is mobile quarterbacks," he said. "Ain't nobody going to want to see a guy that just stands back there. You're going to want a guy that makes plays."

He attributed this to one guy: Young. "Vince Young is 40 pounds bigger than Charlie Ward, however many inches taller, and he runs even faster," said Bowden.

The legendary Florida State coach then made one of those Bowdenian noises -- a "hmmf" -- to express his amazement. Coming from Bowden, it was no small thing, for he has witnessed, firsthand, much of the position's slow evolution.

Back in 1981, when Bowden was in his sixth season at Florida State, his Seminoles were beaten 58-14 by Southern Miss, whose quarterback, Reggie Collier, was the first to throw and rush for 1,000 yards each in the same season. The guy Bowden rode to the '93 national championship, Ward, was a passer first, but enough of an athlete to become an NBA point guard after winning the Heisman. The QB Bowden beat in the '93 Orange Bowl, Tommie Frazier, won two national titles running the now nearly defunct option at Nebraska in '94 and '95. And in '99, Bowden's Seminoles had their hands full with a quarterback who took the nation by storm -- Virginia Tech's Michael Vick -- before pulling away to win the national title.

The proliferation of Rodriguez's spread offense, and a general increase in athletic recruits staying under center rather than converting to wideout, running back or defensive back, helped the mobile-QB position explode in this decade. In 2001, Woody Dantzler, playing at Clemson, where Rodriguez was offensive coordinator, upped the ante on Collier's feat by throwing for 2,000 yards and running for 1,000. Four seasons later, using similar zone-read principles, Young pushed the mobile gold standard to 3,000 and 1,000.

Collier -- who played quarterback in the USFL before it folded, then was converted, briefly, to a wideout by the Cowboys and now works for Southern Miss' athletic department -- isn't surprised that it took two decades for the mobility craze to take hold. "People are used to certain offenses for so long, they're not willing to make changes," he said. "It usually takes a certain individual, like a Vince Young, to make it happen. Then people -- usually it's opposing coaches who get beat by a QB like that, they say, 'Maybe we need to find somebody like that, who can take our offense to another level.'"

With traditional powerhouses such as Texas, Penn State, Florida and Ohio State embracing offenses that feature designed runs from their QBs, mobile prospects are in higher demand on the recruiting trail. The question is no longer "Who wants a non-dropback QB?" but rather, "Where do I get one of these new-wave stars?" College fans are eagerly awaiting the emergence of spread-fit freshman QBs such as the Gators' Tim Tebow and Illinois' Isiah Williams, even if they aren't yet No. 1 on their teams' depth charts.

Greg Davis, the Texas coordinator who tweaked his offense to let Young blossom -- Davis added in spread elements, and estimates that he called 175 zone-reads (approximately 15 percent of all plays) in 2005 -- summed it up like this: "Most people, if you asked them, would love to have a big, mobile QB that can throw the ball. The problem is finding Vince Youngs. Special guys like him -- they're not that easy to find."

Indeed, Davis and the 'Horns are facing the prospect of starting a talented but not nearly as athletic freshman QB, Colt McCoy, in Year 1 A.V. (After Vince). But Davis hasn't removed the zone-read elements from his offense. The 'Horns will put more emphasis on the passing game while keeping the runs as part of their arsenal.

And really, why stop running? Once you've seen the havoc a dual-threat QB can create -- and once you've felt the goose bumps from watching Young's title-winning heroics -- you don't regress to the ways of old.

...and now we see how running the zone read without Young has worked out. Same RBs, same ol, but the running game sucked this year without VY.

 

[Shlon]

I think VY will succeed mainly because he has Chow to guide him (whos great with QB's). I don't think Vick would've regressed if he had someone like Chow to guide him (also had to learn a new offense under the coaching changes).

 

[Knight who says Ni]

Again, this hyperbole is unwarranted until the guy has been in the league for a few years. Redefine the position? I don't know how much it can be redefined - the QB has to throw passes and lead the offense. Turning the QB into a throwing RB may be a redefinition, but not necessarily a good one. Biabreakable has a great post in a different thread in which he theorizes that Vick's tendency to run has hindered his ability to develop timing and chemistry with his WR's, and Young may be in danger of the same thing:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6019159

I don't see the position being redefined - Young may have a great career in the NFL and I wish him the best, but if people keep elevating their expectations of the guy, such that they expect him to be the second coming of Walter Payton and Johnny Unitas wrapped up into one tidy package, then it is going to hurt this kid as he'll never live up to them. I hope he succeeds, but this talk of him redefining the position, solving world hunger, and curing cancer is a bit much.

Ni!

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Chow & Fisher

"I think he can almost, corny as it sounds, redefine what the quarterback position should be like because he's so big and he throws the ball well and he can run," Chow said Wednesday of the Tennessee Titans' rookie quarterback.

"I don't think I've seen a young quarterback learn as fast as he did," Fisher said. "He's got the poise, composure and ability to stay calm in critical situations and make plays."

How are those guys authorities on Vince Young? Nice try, but I'm going with LHUCKS' biased opinion on this one.

Voice of reason.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Again, this hyperbole is unwarranted until the guy has been in the league for a few years. Redefine the position? I don't know how much it can be redefined - the QB has to throw passes and lead the offense. Turning the QB into a throwing RB may be a redefinition, but not necessarily a good one. Biabreakable has a great post in a different thread in which he theorizes that Vick's tendency to run has hindered his ability to develop timing and chemistry with his WR's, and Young may be in danger of the same thing:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6019159

I don't see the position being redefined - Young may have a great career in the NFL and I wish him the best, but if people keep elevating their expectations of the guy, such that they expect him to be the second coming of Walter Payton and Johnny Unitas wrapped up into one tidy package, then it is going to hurt this kid as he'll never live up to them. I hope he succeeds, but this talk of him redefining the position, solving world hunger, and curing cancer is a bit much.

Ni!

If he could cure cancer...........that'd be cool.

 

[DawnBTVS]

If Vince improves as a passer to the 60% range, I could see him as being comparable to Steve Young. Pass first QB who can scramble.

Steve had YPC's of 6.29 (1991 in 11 games), 7.07 (1992), 5.90 (1993), and 5.05 (1994).

Vince currently has a 6.75 in 12 games.

The last 3 games pass completion wise shows Vince could be coming around sooner than expected.

12 vs. Giants: 24/35 for 69%

13 vs. Colts: 15/25 for 60%

14 vs. Texans: 19/29 for 66%

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I was about to post the following in another thread in response to :

So is it really fair to praise a guy for keeping drives going late in the game and leading them to a needed score, when they should have scored on the 5 previous drives?

...but the thread got locked because of unruliness...so anyway, here it is:

"He's got the poise, composure and ability to stay calm in critical situations and make plays."

Last 5 drives vs Houston:04:30 2:41 TEN 37 5 63 Touchdown T. Henry TD Run

00:07 0:18 TEN 24 3 7 Interception

12:00 8:07 TEN 12 15 88 Touchdown T. Henry TD Run (88 yard drive)

02:09 1:16 TEN 40 3 8 Punt

15:00 3:46 TEN 43 5 57 Touchdown Young GWTD Run (39) in OT

vs Indy:

00:31 0:20 IND 42 3 42 Touchdown Young TD Pass

15:00 4:52 TEN 31 9 54 Interception

04:14 6:50 TEN 5 11 95 Touchdown Young TD Pass (95 yard drive)

10:01 2:42 TEN 20 5 39 Punt

02:38 2:31 TEN 25 9 33 Field Goal

vs NYG:

14:56 1:07 TEN 32 3 -8 Punt

12:55 3:20 NYG 46 9 46 Touchdown Young TD Pass

07:46 2:22 NYG 36 6 36 Touchdown Young TD Pass

03:07 2:23 NYG 24 8 76 Touchdown Young TD Run (76 yard drive)

00:23 0:17 NYG 49 3 18 Field Goal

In the last 5 drives of the last three games, Young's offense has totalled 8 TDs and 2 GWFGs.

10 of 15. Of those 8 TDs, Young accounted for 6...4 passing and 2 running. Not bad...esp for a rook.

 

[parasaurolophus]

remember when your home team's head coach drafted a QB with the #3 pick and then came out and said how dissapointed he was and thought that this kid would be the death of the organization? Of course he praised him. If he criticized him, he would be fired. Right now VY is bigger than Jeff Fisher.

I have said all along, the guy need only become a mediocre QB and he will be a great business decision. He is exciting to watch, no doubt about it. He will put butts in the seats and sell Jerseys, just like Vick did.

As far as the post about the last 5 drives which was directed at me I didnt actually look at the last 5 drives, i was making a generalization. But in those 3 games the Titans scored 24, 26, and 20 points. Thats a total of 70 points. 8 tds and 2 fgs is 62 points. So lets just back it up and rephrase. Is it really fair to give sooo much credit for what a qb does on the last 5 drives, if he does almost nothing on the first 5? What about giving the defense credit for not letting it get out of hand?

I do again feel the need to stress that I am actually a VY owner in one league where i used the 6th pick in a 16 team dynasty draft.

 

[Colin Dowling]

If Vince improves as a passer to the 60% range, I could see him as being comparable to Steve Young. Pass first QB who can scramble.Steve had YPC's of 6.29 (1991 in 11 games), 7.07 (1992), 5.90 (1993), and 5.05 (1994).Vince currently has a 6.75 in 12 games.The last 3 games pass completion wise shows Vince could be coming around sooner than expected.12 vs. Giants: 24/35 for 69%13 vs. Colts: 15/25 for 60%14 vs. Texans: 19/29 for 66%

While I like the % over 60, I am every bit as interested in seeing him stab down the field a bit more. People like to forget that at Texas, he was a good deep passer down the middle of the field, but not so much to the sidelines. I'd settle for a 55% completion % with a 7.2 ypa over a 65% completion % at 6.2 ypa every day of the week. One or two more 25 yard passes a game will keep the defense honest and open lanes for him to continue making plays with his feet.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

If Vince improves as a passer to the 60% range, I could see him as being comparable to Steve Young. Pass first QB who can scramble.Steve had YPC's of 6.29 (1991 in 11 games), 7.07 (1992), 5.90 (1993), and 5.05 (1994).Vince currently has a 6.75 in 12 games.The last 3 games pass completion wise shows Vince could be coming around sooner than expected.12 vs. Giants: 24/35 for 69%13 vs. Colts: 15/25 for 60%14 vs. Texans: 19/29 for 66%

While I like the % over 60, I am every bit as interested in seeing him stab down the field a bit more. People like to forget that at Texas, he was a good deep passer down the middle of the field, but not so much to the sidelines. I'd settle for a 55% completion % with a 7.2 ypa over a 65% completion % at 6.2 ypa every day of the week. One or two more 25 yard passes a game will keep the defense honest and open lanes for him to continue making plays with his feet.

I'd like that, too, but I think he is taking shots downfield. If the wrs, Bennett included, would stop dropping well-thrown deep balls, I think you'd see that 7.2 avg or better.

Is it really fair to give sooo much credit for what a qb does on the last 5 drives, if he does almost nothing on the first 5? What about giving the defense credit for not letting it get out of hand?

Of course the D should get credit. I believe there are plenty of accolades to go around. This is not about whether anyone else should get a share of the credit. Of course they should. By the same token, Young should also get a major pat on the back for taking advantage of the opportunities presented to him. As we all know, most of the time opportunities like these are squandered. Oddly though, there are a lot of people who want to take away the 3 straight comebacks, giving all the credit to the rest of the team, and none to Young.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Is it really fair to give sooo much credit for what a qb does on the last 5 drives, if he does almost nothing on the first 5? What about giving the defense credit for not letting it get out of hand?

Absolutely. Just as defenses adjust, offenses adjust. The Titans, frankly, aren't talented enough on the offensive side of the ball to come out and "impose their will" like the Bengals or Colts or Saints, etc. So, it makes a TON of sense that they heat up towards the end of the game when they find a stride of some sort. As the talent improves and the guys who are playing get a little more experience, then they'll move (hopefully) towards being a team that can roll out and score 2 or 3 TDs in their first few possessions. Until then, I'm thankful they're scoring at all and winning at the same time.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Is it really fair to give sooo much credit for what a qb does on the last 5 drives, if he does almost nothing on the first 5? What about giving the defense credit for not letting it get out of hand?

Absolutely. Just as defenses adjust, offenses adjust. The Titans, frankly, aren't talented enough on the offensive side of the ball to come out and "impose their will" like the Bengals or Colts or Saints, etc. So, it makes a TON of sense that they heat up towards the end of the game when they find a stride of some sort. As the talent improves and the guys who are playing get a little more experience, then they'll move (hopefully) towards being a team that can roll out and score 2 or 3 TDs in their first few possessions. Until then, I'm thankful they're scoring at all and winning at the same time.

Exactly, it never seems to occur to people that when an offense struggles early, then gets on a roll later...well, maybe they just found something in the scheme, matchups, etc. Maybe they're in better shape, or something or someone gets them jacked up...or maybe they just are scrappy and won't quit. How 'bout this, rather than ripping the Titans for scoring later rather than earlier, let's rip the opposition for not being able to answer or for not being able to stop the Titans.It's a 60 minute game.

 

[Road Warriors]

VY has been able to have his ways with opposing defenses so far. But let's wait until next year when teams have prepared for him and laid out gameplans that they've worked on all off season. I've been curbing my enthusiasm so far because I'm afraid that next year he'll be brought back down to Earth somewhat.

Doesn't it say something that you're talking about teams working all offseason to come up with some way to stop Young? The kid presents problems that other QBs don't. And if he can learn to become a more efficient passer... well, you get the picture. Nothing is written in stone about VY, but it sure could be a fun ride.