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Chris Ivory vs Mark Ingram (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ballstein
- Start date
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
He should definitely get a shot, but he won't since he's an UDFA who has injury issues competing against their 1st round draft pick this year. If he can stay healthy, he is a starting RB in this league.
Scrappy Doo
Footballguy
Ingram hasn't been doing badly at all. He's coming on slowly but surely. And now that Olin Kreutz finally admitted that he's horrible at this age and quit, it can only improve with the younger C they have. Ivory was a great story last year as an UDFA but he's still coming off injury now. He's not a better option than Ingram. And neither is Pierre.
Anonymous Internet User
Footballguy
I'm not even certain Ivory won't be IR'd. He's still on PUP even though he's eligible to be taken off.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
No he is quality depth and not near as versatile as Ingram. Also lets see Ivory run behind this year's offensive line post recovery and then make a judgement if he is as affective as Ingram. My bet is no.
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Ivory is 0% owned right now.Ingram is 84% owned.No one is seriously considering this topic.
shnikies
Footballguy
No.
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
I bet this is a troll thread knowing how spirited Ingram has been debated. If OP truely wanted an answer he would have just posted in one of the two other active Ingram threads.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
This board would have preferred Ivory over Walter Payton after 6 games, too.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
packersfan
Footballguy
I'd say this quote from Joe Vitt earlier in the week tells us all we need to know about where Ivory stands at the present time:
"(Activating Ivory is) not a pressing concern right now."
If there was any sense the Saints were disappointed with Ingram (which they're not), it's safe to say they would feel differently. Ivory is nothing more than RB depth for the Saints. I think if there's a RB whose role is in any question or danger at all right now it's Thomas, not Ingram. Ingram and Sproles appear to be locked into the backfield picture. Ingram started last week, has the most Red Zone touches of any Saints RB and leads the backfield in touchdowns. The idea that Ingram is viewed as a disappointment by the Saints is conjured up by fantasy owners who wanted more from him than his production has produced so far. There isn't a shred of evidence which suggests the Saints' coaching staff feels the same way.
"(Activating Ivory is) not a pressing concern right now."
If there was any sense the Saints were disappointed with Ingram (which they're not), it's safe to say they would feel differently. Ivory is nothing more than RB depth for the Saints. I think if there's a RB whose role is in any question or danger at all right now it's Thomas, not Ingram. Ingram and Sproles appear to be locked into the backfield picture. Ingram started last week, has the most Red Zone touches of any Saints RB and leads the backfield in touchdowns. The idea that Ingram is viewed as a disappointment by the Saints is conjured up by fantasy owners who wanted more from him than his production has produced so far. There isn't a shred of evidence which suggests the Saints' coaching staff feels the same way.
Oh hey a thread about a struggling rookie RB where someone brings up Waltrer Payton, never seen this before.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
That's a bit outrageous. Weare talking about Christopher Ivory here.... not Jackie Battle !!
There isn't much doubt ivory is a more talented runner both by the eyeball test and his gaudy 5.2 YPC last season.
The problem is that he's coming off a major injury so no one knows if he's the same runner he was last season.
Ivory 2010 > Ingram, that is just a fact. whether ivory 2011 = ivory 2010 remains to be seen.
The problem is that he's coming off a major injury so no one knows if he's the same runner he was last season.
Ivory 2010 > Ingram, that is just a fact. whether ivory 2011 = ivory 2010 remains to be seen.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Yeah, the OL troubles of 2011, and Ingram's need to mature into a confident pro runner, have nothing to do with the discrepancy in YPC. Come on.You are well known as someone who is not an Ingram believer. That's fine, I'm not going to label you a "hater" or something ridiculous like that, because we all go by our gut in this hobby. We can't all be right, and we can't all agree. You very well could be on the correct side of this. I don't believe you are, based on what I see, but you could be.But stating things in an absolute light like you have above, as if they are indisputable facts....come on. "From what I see, I think Ivory's a more talented runner than Ingram, and here's why..."Now that's a starting point, a good place to jump off from and have a great debate based on what we all see."Ivory 2010 > Ingram, that is just a fact." That is NOT a good starting point.
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Any chance you can stop quoting this guy? All he does is troll (this is another obvious one) and quoting him defeats the purpose of me (and others) blocking him. Thanks!
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Mr Rodgers neighborhood
Footballguy
Curious as to why Ivory should get a shot when Ingram hasn't been given a shot...
Whitney26
Footballguy
I went over to PFF and compared the two. Taking Ingram's first 6 games into consideration, there isn't much argument who has had more success from a purely statistical standpoint.
Ingram (6 Games)
Carries 71
Yards 238
Yard / Attempt 3.4
Yards after Contact 1.9
Long Rush 19
Touchdowns 3
Missed Tackles 3
Ivory (12 Games)
Carries 137
Yards 718
Yards / Attempt 5.2
Yards after Contact 3.3
Long Rush 55
Touchdowns 5
Missed Tackles 31
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/11/elusive-ivory/
"But we know the Saints have arguably the best guard tandem in football, how much of the yardage was due to those guys opening up holes up front? Well, Ivory racked up 5.5 yards per attempt, but he managed to average 3.3 yards per attempt after contact. That figure was only topped by two players with more than 100 carries to their name – Blount, and Oakland’s Darren McFadden.
Ivory burst through the holes that were being opened for him, but he had the ability to break through contact and earn tough yards of his own too. How much ability? He registered 31 missed tackles forced on the season. That’s three more than Maurice Jones-Drew and the same number both Hillis and Arian Foster managed despite massively more opportunities. In terms of missed tackles forced per attempt, Ivory actually tops everybody except Blount, and was one of only two players that even got into the same area code as the Tampa Bay rookie."
Only time will tell if Ivory is recovered from his injuries. If he does, he could make things interesting in NO, assuming he gets the opportunity. Opportunity is at least half the battle.
Ingram (6 Games)
Carries 71
Yards 238
Yard / Attempt 3.4
Yards after Contact 1.9
Long Rush 19
Touchdowns 3
Missed Tackles 3
Ivory (12 Games)
Carries 137
Yards 718
Yards / Attempt 5.2
Yards after Contact 3.3
Long Rush 55
Touchdowns 5
Missed Tackles 31
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/11/elusive-ivory/
"But we know the Saints have arguably the best guard tandem in football, how much of the yardage was due to those guys opening up holes up front? Well, Ivory racked up 5.5 yards per attempt, but he managed to average 3.3 yards per attempt after contact. That figure was only topped by two players with more than 100 carries to their name – Blount, and Oakland’s Darren McFadden.
Ivory burst through the holes that were being opened for him, but he had the ability to break through contact and earn tough yards of his own too. How much ability? He registered 31 missed tackles forced on the season. That’s three more than Maurice Jones-Drew and the same number both Hillis and Arian Foster managed despite massively more opportunities. In terms of missed tackles forced per attempt, Ivory actually tops everybody except Blount, and was one of only two players that even got into the same area code as the Tampa Bay rookie."
Only time will tell if Ivory is recovered from his injuries. If he does, he could make things interesting in NO, assuming he gets the opportunity. Opportunity is at least half the battle.
slayer666
Footballguy
Ivory isn't practicing this week and the Saints have three weeks to remove him from the PUP list.Meanwhile, in PPR formats, Darren Sproles is killing all the other Saints' backs. Sproles is a top-10 running back based on a 7.4 YPC average when he carries the ball and he's tied with TE Jimmy Graham as the Saints leading receiver with 39 catches. If you participate in a return yardage league, you get the extra benefit of his punt and kick returns.
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troll thread..right. What A weird post. Get a life dude.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
As a Saints fan I can say I don't see anything special in Ivory. He had 2 good games against 2 bad defenses. He also has a fumbling problem.
with this few carries, yards after contact might be misleading what if you bounce off a tackler in the backfield for a 70 yard TD? there's a huge boost right there
L
Luke Skywalker
Guest
Ivory does seem to have a little more wiggle than Ingram. Probably a little better burst as well. Ivory's only problem is that he can't stay healthy because his running style is too self-destructive.
It will be very interesting to see what he looks like when he finally gets back.
It will be very interesting to see what he looks like when he finally gets back.
shnikies
Footballguy
Ivory is definitely a nice preemptive pickup. Even though Ingram's heel is only bruised it can't be easy to run on it. If Ingram were to miss this week's game against the Scams, Ivory becomes a nice "what the heck" flex if I may.
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
The coaching staff is very please with what Ingram has done so far - he's not putting up monster fantasy numbers but gives the offence the ability to get the tough yards when needed.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
He might want to try getting some of those easy yards.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
He's doing just fine with what the Saints want him to do - everytime he is out there it is a run between the tackles - he bounced one outside last night and had his longest run of the year.Its obvious that Payton values a RB more like Sproles in this offence and PT being around isn't helping either.Biggest fantasy bust ever - probably but not because of lack of talent. He's in the wrong situation - most of the staffers on this board took the opposite approach when scouting Ingram claiming it was definitely possible for him to have 250 touches.Of course in a demolition matchup he is still used situationally and no guarantee of a touchdown even down at the 5.Its a terrible situation for any Ingram owners out there including myself.
Not inconsistent. The injury changes the whole equation.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
Utter BS. He didn't get 6" to tie up the game at the end of the Packer game. Saints might have an extra W if Ingram was not on their team. There has been no game where you can say Ingram was even a key contributor. I see no way the Saints are pleased with ingram.
seriously? the packer game he was swarmed by the Dline several yards deep in the backfield. AP is not scoring there, neither is anyone else. "He's doing real well," said Payton...http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=6471&line=216410&spln=1.I trust the coach over you
Shawnky
Footballguy
Stop reading stat lines and actually turn the games on......chief
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
DesmondBishop
Footballguy
I have nothing against Ingram, but there is no way anyone that has watched Ivory and Ingram can say at this point Ingram is better or has even looked close to as good as Ivory and last year the offense was not nearly as good as this years.
Ingram definitely looked good against the Colts, but I think I could have rushed for 50 against them, they may be the worst D in the league. I am not really sure why so many Saints fans are down on Ivory, that guy was a beast last year as a rookie, I would love to have him running for my team as he is a punishing runner.
also they continue to give him the most carries and made no effort to activate a healthy Ivory? does that not indicate they are happy with what they are getting out of him right now? if not they would likely lower his carry total?Love your believing everything the coach says shtick.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
Alias alert. This post and you saying I am a racist (for agreeing that Suh is a dirty player) are your only posts. Get a life. Can we get an alias check?
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
It's definitely without precedent that a team would stick with their first round pick so you must be right.also they continue to give him the most carries and made no effort to activate a healthy Ivory? does that not indicate they are happy with what they are getting out of him right now? if not they would likely lower his carry total?
packersfan
Footballguy
Not sure why this rather significant quote from Vitt is being ignored so I'll bump it back up. When Ingram was healthy last week, activating Ivory was not a "pressing concern." Even this week when asked Payton said activating Ivory was likely contingent on Ingram's health. These things aren't arbitrary; they're very important. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the Saints are disappointed with Ingram. As I posted in the Ingram HOF thread he had a very good game against the Colts even if he didn't score. If the Saints were disappointed with Ingram and/or believed Ivory was the superior RB it's doubtful they would consider activating him as not being a "pressing concern" or effectively state that his potential to be active now is contingent on Ingram's health. Ingram hasn't been All That so far this season. We all know that. But the fact he's disappointed from a fantasy perspective should not in any way confuse people into believing the Saints are unhappy with him. Based on numerous articles, the Saints are happy with him and want to use him even more. The primary issue is Sproles has been so good he's pretty difficult to take off the field - especially for a team like the Saints who want to spread you out and create as many one-on-one mismatches as possible.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Translation: Ingram isn't good enough to dislodge Sproles. Glowing endorsement.
packersfan
Footballguy
Sproles has probably been one of the 10 best RBs in the league so far this season - without a doubt in terms of impact. I wouldn't view it as a major indictment on Ingram at all.
This thread is not about Sproles vs Ingram, Genius.If you think Ivory is a fantasy RB1, go grab him now and make a new Ivory for HOF thread. But for now Ivory needs a multiweek injury just to get ACTIVATED.
