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We teach and preach that Jesus was a human man who was born from a virgin who was made pregnant by the Holy Spirit (or Ghost) who literally walked on water, made food spontaneously multiply, made water spontaneously turn into wine, healed people with incurable diseases and took dead people and made them alive again. And this same guy, we teach, was killed and came back to life and then morphed around for a few days before literally flying straight up into space like Superman. Then we teach that he will come back again the same way. These are the literal beliefs and teachings of Christianity.
But yet somehow, teaching that yoga is a practice that Christians should avoid because of its historical roots is considered crazy.
Sorry, but it is doesn't even move the needle on the nutty scale if you think the Bible is made up.
For me and my experience all that stuff you mentioned is to teach the love of jesus. Whether people believe it or not, there is a lot of love and beauty in these stories.
The nutty scale moves for me when man's interpretation of scripture begins pointing his finger and making people feel ashamed or void of following god properly because practicing yoga makes them feel good.
Man's pointing finger backed by religion has and continues to cause much strife in the world.
Agreed on the audience. I should have more clear as I didn't intend to have a conversation between Christians. This board is mostly not Christians. I was more asking everyone, regardless of their position, what they thought of her article. I do agree it was originally intended for churches as to how they should manage their services. But I also found a lot of non church people with an opinion on it. Which I think is great.
Last thing, and this is a conversation between Christians with you and I, in my opinion a church's preaching and teaching doesn't have to be "watered down" to be known more for what we're for than what we're against. But I hear what you're saying. All good.
The problem is that the people that some Christians often disagree with the most bitterly are other denominations of Christians. It's not good enough to be a Christian, you have to be their brand of Christian and share the same radical worldviews or a fiery hell awaits you the same as any non-believer. So when I see this new generation of pastors preaching about the evils of yoga, it just reminds me of Ecclesiastes 1:9. There is nothing new under the sun and some uninformed, out of touch pastor is going to be preaching the same fire and brimstone message 50 years from now about your robot yoga instructor and the sinful ride your self-driving car took you to get to class. Whatever is trendy and cool is worldly and evil which adds to the irony of churches trying to be cool.
The nutty scale moves for me when man's interpretation of scripture begins pointing his finger and making people feel ashamed or void of following god properly because practicing yoga makes them feel good.
So when I see this new generation of pastors preaching about the evils of yoga, it just reminds me of Ecclesiastes 1:9. There is nothing new under the sun and some uninformed, out of touch pastor is going to be preaching the same fire and brimstone message 50 years from now about your robot yoga instructor and the sinful ride your self-driving car took you to get to class. Whatever is trendy and cool is worldly and evil which adds to the irony of churches trying to be cool.
The pastor in question is about 60 years old and is highly respected. He has been preaching for over 30 years, 25 at the same church, which is now the largest church in Missouri.
I'm no authority on religion. I only have my personal experiences to draw upon which limits me to Roman Catholicism and the Black Baptist church (NBC) of my in-laws.
I don't know if Vatican II was a step toward coolness but I think changing from the Latin mass to the local language makes religion more accessible. Other than that, I haven't observed any big changes in my lifetime. Hymms with a guitar rather than organ accompaniment is window dressing and unlikely to attract any new believers. Some congregations I've belonged to have taken a more accommodating approach but I think that's more of a reflection of an individual pastor's style than anything coming from Rome or the Archdiocese. On the other hand, I was a member of a church where the pastor called on parishioners to boycott a local store that sold joke votive candles with Obama's face on them. I don't see Catholicism dying as a major world religion but I'm afraid it will continue to diminish in the Western world. Church is one of the only places I can go in SF where I'm younger than the median.
The Black church's message seems much more aligned with the day-to-day needs of its churchgoers than Catholics are. Mrs. Eephus' stepfather is a retired pastor and a wonderful man. We occasionally go to his old church where he's still revered. Other than the occasional pop culture reference in the sermon, I don't see these as attempts to be cool but more a social reference to remain grounded with the community of faith. I feel more connected and uplifted when I go there than I have at Catholic mass in years. But 3-4 hours on a Sunday is a big commitment and I like sports
I had a thought a while back that eventually some churches would take the religious aspect out of it and simply become places where positive minded people come together and try to solve issues within themselves and the community. Maybe instead of calling them churches they're called Personal and Community Help Stations (or "PATCHES"). One month everyone down at "The Patch" is focused on cleaning up trash at local parks or the beach. The next month the focus is assisting the homeless. One week is devoted to planting trees around town. Maybe there are always trained professionals who work at the Patch assisting anyone who needs help with depression, substance abuse, their marriage, etc. Everyone brings their own unique skill set to the group and works together for the common good. I think young people, old people and most people in between would get behind something like that. Instead of having alters and masses you have social events and celebrations. Concerts, parties, carnivals to celebrate life and all the good work you've done to better yourself and the community. A place to go to where positive people like you are trying to make the best of the short time we have together on the planet but without the 2000 year old hocus pocus/Santa Claus stuff. A place to congregate and help each other, not in "the name of God", just simply to better our own lives and communities. We're not going to see it in our lifetimes but that seems like the direction things are moving.
I'm not a church or religion person but now in my late 20's I have friends the same age who are. Some grew up with it, some found it in or after college for whatever reason. All have their own reasons for being drawn to it and some even like it despite not believing it.
The important thing from what I can tell is the concept of community.
The only common factor is that they all choose to go to the church they chose because they're looking for community, and they eventually found the one they fit into.
If that's the goal, then no church can really do things wrong, trying to be "cool" or traditional or whatever. They'll always create and foster the community that feels at home there, and the feel of the services should probably reflect those different communities.
I had a thought a while back that eventually some churches would take the religious aspect out of it and simply become places where positive minded people come together and try to solve issues within themselves and the community. Maybe instead of calling them churches they're called Personal and Community Help Stations (or "PATCHES"). One month everyone down at "The Patch" is focused on cleaning up trash at local parks or the beach. The next month the focus is assisting the homeless. One week is devoted to planting trees around town. Maybe there are always trained professionals who work at the Patch assisting anyone who needs help with depression, substance abuse, their marriage, etc. Everyone brings their own unique skill set to the group and works together for the common good. I think young people, old people and most people in between would get behind something like that. Instead of having alters and masses you have social events and celebrations. Concerts, parties, carnivals to celebrate life and all the good work you've done to better yourself and the community. A place to go to where positive people like you are trying to make the best of the short time we have together on the planet but without the 2000 year old hocus pocus/Santa Claus stuff. A place to congregate and help each other, not in "the name of God", just simply to better our own lives and communities. We're not going to see it in our lifetimes but that seems like the direction things are moving.
As I get older I realize in entertainment that name is everything. Singers, bands, actors, movies...name is everything in terms of popularity/hitting it big. How can terms connected to Rotary/Kiwanis compete with Jesus Christ and The Bible? Can you come up with a better stage name than Jesus Christ?
Can you come up with a more seductive book title than "The Holy Bible"? Bible (as a word not directly relating to THE Bible) found it's way into the dictionary around the time of (I think) Noah Webster.
My church literally runs 5 services targeted to different audiences. Granted it's a large church and I'm sure many can't do that. We do the Traditional which is the old school, "uncool" one. I have no idea which one draws the largest crowd.
SUNDAY MORNINGS
8:15 – Classic
9:30 – Contemporary
11:00 – Traditional
11:00 – 801South
12:30 – Centro Cristiano Hosanna (Servicio en Español)
The Deep Family Worship – 2nd Sunday of each month at 9:30 am
We basically do the 801South thingy (based on the description a few posts up) six times a week. We draw about 12K in NYC and another 4-6K at the other campuses in NJ, CT & Boston.
IME there are few things more important to millennials - especially those 25 and under - than authenticity.
The core message of the gospel isn't compromised due to cultural flavor.
Although I've been to PP type churches, ours is more experiential. The sermons are less exegetical and more "shout down the preacher" - it's a bit like being in a black gospel church, though our demo is more akin to NYC as a whole. We have a little bit of everything, foks literally from all over the globe.
Although our teaching and statement of faith mirrors most Bible based evangelical (cringe worthy term) churches, our emphasis is on "come as you are", "you don't have to believe to belong", and "welcome home." We have atheists, crossdressers and openly LBGT attending regularly. They are most welcome in our community of faith. Someone who lives counter to biblical principles cannot be a team leader, but we just think our job is to love people, make them feel comfortable, and then get out of the way so God can do what only God can do.
As one of the more vocal Christians on the board, I felt like I should say something here.
This is a completely fair question.
In my opinion (and this is purely MY opinion), I see Churches (and Christians) spend what feels to me like way too much time and energy on all the things they're "against".
I'm not saying "nothing matters and do anything you like". But I'd much rather we be known for what we're for and not so much for the list of things we're against.
It's just so much better that way.
There's a reason Dana Carvey's finger wagging church lady character resonated. People could relate. And that's a bummer.
Christians may have 99 problems but yoga ain't one.
Churches & religion have become irrelevant for many people, the mere mention is a pejorative that triggers people. I don't blame people for being dismissive.
I always think about how Jesus treated the marginalized, downtrodden in the society of his day (lepers, prostitutes, tax collectors), and then I think about who he saved up the "woe to you" statements - the religious hypocrites. In every instance where Jesus meets a non-religious non-pious person wanting to follow him and find God, he has compassion. He didn't condemn the woman at the well, or Matthew and his tax collector friends, or the woman caught in adultery, or Zacchaeus.
He flipped tables on the money changers, who operated with the full backing of the leaders of the temple (the scribes & Pharisees.) They were exploiting people by marking up the price of the animals required for temple sacrifice. This happened in the outer courts, where both Jews and Gentiles gathered. He quotes Jeremiah 7 to the Priests, because they were corrupt, having exchanged their love of God for the love of money.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I love the story about Simon the Pharisee and the woman who washed Jesus' feet with her tears. The height of religiosity juxtaposed with humble repentance and love.
Luke 7:36-49
He had the Holy One of Israel in his house, reclining at his table. The Prophet that Moses had foretold was sharing dinner with him. The Lord of glory, the Resurrection and the Life, was speaking with him face to face. The great climactic moment of history he claimed to be living for had arrived. It should have been a deliriously wonderful, breathtaking honor for Simon to host the Messiah.
But Simon was not amazed. As he looked at Jesus, all he saw was a dusty Nazarene whose claims could be interpreted as delusional.
And Jesus’ feet were still dirty. Offering foot washing to guests had been a deeply ingrained custom for Near Eastern peoples for thousands of years. To not offer it was to dishonor one’s guest. It’s not likely that Simon simply forgot.
But Jesus showed no sign of offense. And with the meal on the table, superficial pleasantries were exchanged. A few polite questions were asked.
Suddenly all eyes facing Jesus were filled with confused concern, focused toward his feet. Jesus looked back.
A woman was standing near him, clearly not part of the household. She was looking intensely at him, cradling a small jar in her hands. She began to sob and dropped to her knees. And as her tears flowed, she leaned over and let them drop on Jesus’ soiled feet and wiped them off, along with the dirt, with her hair. Then she kissed Jesus’ feet.
Gasps and mutterings were heard around the table. This woman had a reputation known to all the local guests. It was improper even to speak openly about what had given her this reputation. She was simply called a “sinner.” Everyone knew what was packed into that word.
So everyone was mortified by this sinner’s actions, except Jesus, apparently. He did not seem shocked. And he did nothing to stop her. An alarmed servant moved toward the woman but Simon waved him off. This was a revealing moment.
As Simon watched the woman pour fragrant oil from her jar on Jesus’ feet, he felt both contempt and pleasure. His appraisal of Jesus was being vindicated before his eyes. Nothing spoke more eloquently of the falseness of this so-called prophet than his stunning lack of discernment regarding this immoral woman. No holy man would have let her pollute him with her touch. He began to rehearse what he would report to the Council.
“Simon, I have something to say to you.” Jesus’ words snapped Simon’s attention back. “Say it, Teacher,” he replied.
“A certain moneylender had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?”
Simon answered, “The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt.” And he said to him, “You have judged rightly.”
Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little.”
And then Jesus spoke to the woman: “Your sins are forgiven. Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Quotes from Luke 7:40-49)
* * *
“He who is forgiven little, loves little.” This little statement reveals a mammoth truth for us: We will love God to the degree that we recognize the magnitude of our sins and the immensity of God’s grace to forgive them.
As a Pharisee, Simon likely had learned significant theological, memorized extensive portions of Scripture, exercised rigorous self-discipline, tithed meticulously, spent much time “serving” God, and enjoyed a reputation as a godly man. And yet he did not love God.
The woman, however, who had nothing to offer except shameful sin, was described by Jesus as a model for true worship. Why? Simply because she knew how desperately she needed the forgiveness Jesus offered in his gospel, and she believed that he could grant it.
That is what Jesus is looking for. That is the faith that saves.
True worship is a passionate love for God. And, for sinners like us, the fuel of that love is a profound realization, in the words of former slave trader-turned-pastor, John Newton, “that I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour.”
Churches & religion have become irrelevant for many people, the mere mention is a pejorative that triggers people. I don't blame people for being dismissive.
I always think about how Jesus treated the marginalized, downtrodden in the society of his day (lepers, prostitutes, tax collectors), and then I think about who he saved up the "woe to you" statements - the religious hypocrites. In every instance where Jesus meets a non-religious non-pious person wanting to follow him and find God, he has compassion. He didn't condemn the woman at the well, or Matthew and his tax collector friends, or the woman caught in adultery, or Zacchaeus.
He flipped tables on the money changers, who operated with the full backing of the leaders of the temple (the scribes & Pharisees.) They were exploiting people by marking up the price of the animals required for temple sacrifice. This happened in the outer courts, where both Jews and Gentiles gathered. He quotes Jeremiah 7 to the Priests, because they were corrupt, having exchanged their love of God for the love of money.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I love the story about Simon the Pharisee and the woman who washed Jesus' feet with her tears. The height of religiosity juxtaposed with humble repentance and love.
Luke 7:36-49
He had the Holy One of Israel in his house, reclining at his table. The Prophet that Moses had foretold was sharing dinner with him. The Lord of glory, the Resurrection and the Life, was speaking with him face to face. The great climactic moment of history he claimed to be living for had arrived. It should have been a deliriously wonderful, breathtaking honor for Simon to host the Messiah.
But Simon was not amazed. As he looked at Jesus, all he saw was a dusty Nazarene whose claims could be interpreted as delusional.
And Jesus’ feet were still dirty. Offering foot washing to guests had been a deeply ingrained custom for Near Eastern peoples for thousands of years. To not offer it was to dishonor one’s guest. It’s not likely that Simon simply forgot.
But Jesus showed no sign of offense. And with the meal on the table, superficial pleasantries were exchanged. A few polite questions were asked.
Suddenly all eyes facing Jesus were filled with confused concern, focused toward his feet. Jesus looked back.
A woman was standing near him, clearly not part of the household. She was looking intensely at him, cradling a small jar in her hands. She began to sob and dropped to her knees. And as her tears flowed, she leaned over and let them drop on Jesus’ soiled feet and wiped them off, along with the dirt, with her hair. Then she kissed Jesus’ feet.
Gasps and mutterings were heard around the table. This woman had a reputation known to all the local guests. It was improper even to speak openly about what had given her this reputation. She was simply called a “sinner.” Everyone knew what was packed into that word.
So everyone was mortified by this sinner’s actions, except Jesus, apparently. He did not seem shocked. And he did nothing to stop her. An alarmed servant moved toward the woman but Simon waved him off. This was a revealing moment.
As Simon watched the woman pour fragrant oil from her jar on Jesus’ feet, he felt both contempt and pleasure. His appraisal of Jesus was being vindicated before his eyes. Nothing spoke more eloquently of the falseness of this so-called prophet than his stunning lack of discernment regarding this immoral woman. No holy man would have let her pollute him with her touch. He began to rehearse what he would report to the Council.
“Simon, I have something to say to you.” Jesus’ words snapped Simon’s attention back. “Say it, Teacher,” he replied.
“A certain moneylender had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?”
Simon answered, “The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt.” And he said to him, “You have judged rightly.”
Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little.”
And then Jesus spoke to the woman: “Your sins are forgiven. Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Quotes from Luke 7:40-49)
* * *
“He who is forgiven little, loves little.” This little statement reveals a mammoth truth for us: We will love God to the degree that we recognize the magnitude of our sins and the immensity of God’s grace to forgive them.
As a Pharisee, Simon likely had learned significant theological, memorized extensive portions of Scripture, exercised rigorous self-discipline, tithed meticulously, spent much time “serving” God, and enjoyed a reputation as a godly man. And yet he did not love God.
The woman, however, who had nothing to offer except shameful sin, was described by Jesus as a model for true worship. Why? Simply because she knew how desperately she needed the forgiveness Jesus offered in his gospel, and she believed that he could grant it.
That is what Jesus is looking for. That is the faith that saves.
True worship is a passionate love for God. And, for sinners like us, the fuel of that love is a profound realization, in the words of former slave trader-turned-pastor, John Newton, “that I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour.”
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The pastor in question is about 60 years old and is highly respected. He has been preaching for over 30 years, 25 at the same church, which is now the largest church in Missouri. 
