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Cincinnati at Pittsburgh (1 Viewer)

it matters because you are wasting your last chance by using your TOs when they're likelihood of converting is higher than it likely will be on the next series. of which they are even more likely to run one up the gut and have a 2nd and much longer.

in your scenarios you might as well start taking them middle of the 4th?

 
it matters because you are wasting your last chance by using your TOs when they're likelihood of converting is higher than it likely will be on the next series. of which they are even more likely to run one up the gut and have a 2nd and much longer.

in your scenarios you might as well start taking them middle of the 4th?
The only thing your TOs save you is time. I don't see why it matters whether you save that time with 3:50 or 1:50 left, when you need at least two possessions to win anyway.

You're buying 40 seconds with one TO. Do you get more for a TO later?

 
it matters because you are wasting your last chance by using your TOs when they're likelihood of converting is higher than it likely will be on the next series. of which they are even more likely to run one up the gut and have a 2nd and much longer.

in your scenarios you might as well start taking them middle of the 4th?
You're still missing the point. You start taking timeouts on defense when you already know you'll never punt again in the game. As soon as you get to the point, while on defense, that you KNOW you aboslutely positively wil never punt again, you take them- whether that is with 5 minutes left down 2 scores, 2 minutes left down 1 score, or 8 minutes left down 4 scores. You take them while on defense- whether it's 1st and 10 or 2nd and 1- that part makes no difference whatsoever. WHat matters is that you're on defense (where the timeout saves the most TIME). Whether the other team converts or not is immaterial- either way you save 40 seconds.

 
it matters because you are wasting your last chance by using your TOs when they're likelihood of converting is higher than it likely will be on the next series. of which they are even more likely to run one up the gut and have a 2nd and much longer.

in your scenarios you might as well start taking them middle of the 4th?
If down 4 scores- at a point you'll never punt again (will use on side kicks after every score)- yes!

 
it matters because you are wasting your last chance by using your TOs when they're likelihood of converting is higher than it likely will be on the next series. of which they are even more likely to run one up the gut and have a 2nd and much longer.

in your scenarios you might as well start taking them middle of the 4th?
The only thing your TOs save you is time. I don't see why it matters whether you save that time with 3:50 or 1:50 left, when you need at least two possessions to win anyway.

You're buying 40 seconds with one TO. Do you get more for a TO later?
it's about them converting. picking the right series against them converting would be the right way to go. percentages. 2nd and 4 is not in your favor. unless there so little time left it doesn't matter. but there was going to be a few more series, wasn't there?

 
it matters because you are wasting your last chance by using your TOs when they're likelihood of converting is higher than it likely will be on the next series. of which they are even more likely to run one up the gut and have a 2nd and much longer.

in your scenarios you might as well start taking them middle of the 4th?
The only thing your TOs save you is time. I don't see why it matters whether you save that time with 3:50 or 1:50 left, when you need at least two possessions to win anyway.

You're buying 40 seconds with one TO. Do you get more for a TO later?
Nope- but you might get LESS if you don't use it while on defense.

Save it and force a turnover on that 2nd and 4- and you effectively lost 25 seconds or more by "saving" the timeout

(Not arguing with you- I realize we are on the same side of this)

 
let me ask you guys this. why haven't 32 nfl teams figured out that they should start burning tos at the 5 or 6 minute level?

 
it matters because you are wasting your last chance by using your TOs when they're likelihood of converting is higher than it likely will be on the next series. of which they are even more likely to run one up the gut and have a 2nd and much longer.

in your scenarios you might as well start taking them middle of the 4th?
The only thing your TOs save you is time. I don't see why it matters whether you save that time with 3:50 or 1:50 left, when you need at least two possessions to win anyway.

You're buying 40 seconds with one TO. Do you get more for a TO later?
it's about them converting. picking the right series against them converting would be the right way to go. percentages. 2nd and 4 is not in your favor. unless there so little time left it doesn't matter. but there was going to be a few more series, wasn't there?
Series doesn't matter- whether they convert or not doesnt matter- you save 40 seconds either way. Earlier is better if you can force a turnover!

The ony thing you could argue is that it might be best to save one timeout if possible up until the 2 minute warning to preserve the opportunity to make a challenge. Even then- I'd use it anyway on a fourth down

 
it matters because you are wasting your last chance by using your TOs when they're likelihood of converting is higher than it likely will be on the next series. of which they are even more likely to run one up the gut and have a 2nd and much longer.

in your scenarios you might as well start taking them middle of the 4th?
The only thing your TOs save you is time. I don't see why it matters whether you save that time with 3:50 or 1:50 left, when you need at least two possessions to win anyway.

You're buying 40 seconds with one TO. Do you get more for a TO later?
it's about them converting. picking the right series against them converting would be the right way to go. percentages. 2nd and 4 is not in your favor. unless there so little time left it doesn't matter. but there was going to be a few more series, wasn't there?
I'm asking you what you think you gain from waiting to take the TO. "percentages" of what?

Here's a sequence of plays, starting at first and 10 with 5:46 on the clock.

L.Bell up the middle to PIT 26 for 6 yards

L.Bell up the middle to PIT 23 for -3 yards

B.Roethlisberger pass short left to E.Sanders to PIT 31 for 8 yards

L.Bell up the middle to PIT 31 for no gain

L.Bell right tackle to PIT 37 for 6 yards

L.Bell up the middle to PIT 38 for 1 yard

(Punt formation) M.McBriar punts 37 yards to CIN 25

There are six plays there (aside from the punt). All of them ended in the field of play. Assuming you intend to use your TOs on this series, why does it matter where in the series you use them? Do the math; no matter when you use them, the punt occurs with about 3:23 on the clock.

 
let me ask you guys this. why haven't 32 nfl teams figured out that they should start burning tos at the 5 or 6 minute level?
Some have ;)
lol. okay how about the end of the 3rd? Dalton doesn't get the play off which is inexcusable. then marv doesn't get them to no-huddle after they get stuffed on the obvious play-call to start the 4th quarter. taking another minute to finally score in a game that they should have been hustling. how long was that commercial break again?

 
the end of the first half was also impressive. forget trying to get into field goal range we're fine. the best was when they came back from halftime and the sideline reporter said how she talked to Marvin about things and he smiled and said he wasn't worried. apparently not. fetal cruise control in pitt. typical.

 
Punter broken jaw and broken vertebrae in his neck from the helmet to the chin. Could've killed the guy. "It's part of the game" isn't an excuse for every malicious hit. Use some common sense here. This is dangerous stuff.

 
flapgreen said:
Punter broken jaw and broken vertebrae in his neck from the helmet to the chin. Could've killed the guy. "It's part of the game" isn't an excuse for every malicious hit. Use some common sense here. This is dangerous stuff.
I agree. This was not a case of split-second decision or going for the right spot and having the target duck their head at the last second. It was at the very least going to be a helmet to helmet, and the fact that he got right under the facemask guaranteed serious injury. Even as someone who has never played the game, I feel confident that he had the time to identify it was the punter (which may or may not matter to some) and target the hit exactly how he wanted. Malicious intent all the way.

 
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flapgreen said:
Punter broken jaw and broken vertebrae in his neck from the helmet to the chin. Could've killed the guy. "It's part of the game" isn't an excuse for every malicious hit. Use some common sense here. This is dangerous stuff.
I agree. This was not a case of split-second decision or going for the right spot and having the target duck their head at the last second. It was at the very least going to be a helmet to helmet, and the fact that he got right under the facemask guaranteed serious injury. Even as someone who has never played the game, I feel confident that he had the time to identify it was the punter (which may or may not matter to some) and target the hit exactly how he wanted. Malicious intent all the way.
Shoulder pad to chest. :shrug:

 
I'm happy to see the rule change regarding crackbacks, and even the opinion change toward hits like this one on the punter. For years, it seems the "Jacked Up" segments were all about blindside hits on a defenseless player. I hate that crap - how awesome is it to crush a punter who's not even looking?

That being said, the punter's injuries are just another sign of what freakish athleticism it takes to play in the NFL. I guarantee that Kevin Huber, at 6-foot-1, 212 lbs. is a better athlete and in better shape than 99 percent of the general population. And he got utterly blown up from one hit. It's hard to believe what these guys withstand play after play.

 
flapgreen said:
Punter broken jaw and broken vertebrae in his neck from the helmet to the chin. Could've killed the guy. "It's part of the game" isn't an excuse for every malicious hit. Use some common sense here. This is dangerous stuff.
yeah, I'm going to change my stance on that play after seeing it a couple times. It could have been avoided. I thought he turned around and they sort of collided, but the Steeler player had him lined up and still got him under the chin.

 

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