CJ Anderson (2 Viewers)

[LawFitz]

I'm gonna try and buy him everywhere I can after this week. He's looked bad. But when you consider his situation it isn't smart to expect more right now. Being hurt, new coach/offense, and playing 2 good D's explains all I need to know. Eventually he'll get more passing work too.

Everyone who says Hillman looks better is crazy. Maybe a lil I guess. But he's not hurt like CJ and should look better. Hillman isn't built for anything more than a COP rb imo and won't be more than a flex going fwd. Have fun with him band wagoners!

Forsett 5' 8" 195 lbs

Hillman 5' 9" 196 lbs

So are you saying Forsett is just a COP back too.

Why let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

Dude you keep spouting these comps w/o understanding that Charles, CJ2k and to a lesser degree, Forsett have MUCH better lateral agility than your boy Hillman. Not long after he gets lead dog reps (if it even happens) mini me Hillman is going to go down because he only has one gear (fast) and runs into defenders like his name is Marshawn. I love the guy's heart, but he's a COP in sheep's clothing who has no instinct for subtly slipping big hits like the few feature backs his size.

 

[TripItUp]

 

[Houston turmOiler]

They played two really good defenses.

Hillman outplayed CJ both games both statistically and via the eye test.

Now all we need is for Kubiak to give Hillman a shot as the 1. He will never look back.

Sell CJ now while he has a little value. Or trade for Hillman and keep CJ as a high priced handcuff.

Kubiak wants a bell cow; and Hillman has nosed ahead in the race.

I own both players and your kidding yourself.

I agree. Anderson is also the supposed better pass protector, so with Peyton playing better from the shotgun and getting going late in the game that bodes well for Anderson. Just gotta fix the OL. People act like Hillman is setting the world on fire. This is a good one-two punch if you fix the damn OL....

 

[dipandglide]

I'm gonna try and buy him everywhere I can after this week. He's looked bad. But when you consider his situation it isn't smart to expect more right now. Being hurt, new coach/offense, and playing 2 good D's explains all I need to know. Eventually he'll get more passing work too.

Everyone who says Hillman looks better is crazy. Maybe a lil I guess. But he's not hurt like CJ and should look better. Hillman isn't built for anything more than a COP rb imo and won't be more than a flex going fwd. Have fun with him band wagoners!

Forsett 5' 8" 195 lbs

Hillman 5' 9" 196 lbs

So are you saying Forsett is just a COP back too.

Why let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

Did I say its impossible for someone Hillman's size to be more than a COP rb? No. That said in most cases they don't hold up to full work loads and are COP rb's. FACT

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

As a CJ owner, no doubt I'm very worried that my RB1 should have been benched the last two games.

As a CJ owner, I am willing to be patient. Denver will look to right the ship offensively and tweak the system to make Manning more comfortable (which they have to, seeing as Manning could easily have thrown 5 picks last night). I think this benefits CJ as well. I'm willing to hold and believe he will come back as a serviceable RB1 a la Lacy, knowing he will split series. In the meantime, looking elsewhere to fill the gap as I am not comfortable starting him until I see some daylight.

Hillman is a threat, without a doubt, and nothing is secure. But even with Hillman outperforming CJ, the gap is slight, and in the long run CJ brings more to the table in terms of his usage (goal line, pass pro).

I think this is sell high on Hillman, buy low on CJ moment.

Will be here with others taking lumps if I am wrong.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Possibility #1: Anderson is the bellcow

Possibility #2: Hillman is the bellcow

Possibility #3: Thomson becomes the bellcow

Possibility #4: This is an RBBC with an offense able to support 2 RBs for fantasy (e.g. Philly)

Possibility #5: This is an RBBC with limited upside for any of the RBs, starting or not

At this stage, gotta say it looks like #5.

 

[habsfan]

2015 RB situation looks about as clear as 2014 to me.

 

[pantherclub]

Bryce Brown tore it up over a couple games in 2012 too and then faded fumbled into nothing.

 

[NREC34]

2015 RB situation looks about as clear as 2014 to me.

Swap the names and this is the Ball thread. Don't have any dog in the fight but had Ball last year. I keep reading this thread though. It's like not being able to refrain from looking at a car wreck.

 

[Seekay]

You are missing the point. People are acting like there is no way they bench CJ. He started last year 3rd on depth chart and was only the number 1 for last half of year. He looks awful so far this year and he is hurt. Maybe he is hurt worse than he is letting on or maybe his success went to his head or maybe he is fools gold.

Or maybe CJ heals up with 10 days off, the OL begins to jell, they let Peyton play more out of the shotgun, and the whole offense begins to roll.

I think my "maybes" are more likely than yours.

Sounds like a lot of IFs to me. Maybe Manziel becomes the second coming of Aaron Rogers. I guess its as likely as what you suggest.

 

[sho nuff]

They played two really good defenses.

Hillman outplayed CJ both games both statistically and via the eye test.

Now all we need is for Kubiak to give Hillman a shot as the 1. He will never look back.

Sell CJ now while he has a little value. Or trade for Hillman and keep CJ as a high priced handcuff.

Kubiak wants a bell cow; and Hillman has nosed ahead in the race.

You are trying REALLY hard in this thread.

Just trying to help out my fellow ballers

He's not trying hard he's speaking the truth. Some people don't like the truth, its human nature.

People act like CJ is AP or Jamal Charles. CJ is playing the role of Montee Ball from last year. Hillman is playing the role of CJ from last year. We all saw how that ended.

More like you act as if Hillman is AP.

 

[ourmanflint]

They played two really good defenses.

Hillman outplayed CJ both games both statistically and via the eye test.

Now all we need is for Kubiak to give Hillman a shot as the 1. He will never look back.

Sell CJ now while he has a little value. Or trade for Hillman and keep CJ as a high priced handcuff.

Kubiak wants a bell cow; and Hillman has nosed ahead in the race.

You are trying REALLY hard in this thread.

Just trying to help out my fellow ballers

He's not trying hard he's speaking the truth. Some people don't like the truth, its human nature.

People act like CJ is AP or Jamal Charles. CJ is playing the role of Montee Ball from last year. Hillman is playing the role of CJ from last year. We all saw how that ended.

Yep it ended with Hillman injured and watching CJ from the sidelines.

 

[Meatwad Reloaded]

I see people are still hanging onto this.

Let it go....he sucks. He had a nice hot streak last year and everybody was chasing the points. Whoever their 3rd stringer is is probably going to end up starting.

 

[SameSongNDance]

Whatever the reality of the situation is, it's more nuanced than a lot of the polarizing assertions in this thread. There are so many variables to weigh here that just saying "he sucks" or that "he's the unquestioned starter" is lazy, at best a half-truth and slightly annoying.

 

[ourmanflint]

I see people are still hanging onto this.

Let it go....he sucks. He had a nice hot streak last year and everybody was chasing the points. Whoever their 3rd stringer is is probably going to end up starting.

"He sucks" is such careful analysis, I hesitate to object, but I must.....you're dead wrong. What sucks here is the situation. Kubiak has taken control of the offense that Peyton should be running. This game clearly bears that out. Whenever this team runs Kubiak's offense, they suck. Whenever they run Peyton's offense, they don't suck. They win. Will this come down to a power struggle? Maybe. It will be interesting but Denver will not succeed running Kubiak's offense as long as Peyton is the QB.

When they get back to playing Peyton-ball, all will be right with the world.

Hillman is not > CJ....in fact, Hillman is not in CJ's class according to every metric.

Stop and start doing some real analysis.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Hillman is not > CJ....in fact, Hillman is not in CJ's class according to every metric.

Stop and start doing some real analysis.

What metrics specifically are you referencing?

 

[ILUVBEER99]

lesson, don't fall for a one year wonder UDFA. i fell for it myself, shoulda known better.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

I see people are still hanging onto this.

Let it go....he sucks. He had a nice hot streak last year and everybody was chasing the points. Whoever their 3rd stringer is is probably going to end up starting.

"He sucks" is such careful analysis, I hesitate to object, but I must.....you're dead wrong. What sucks here is the situation. Kubiak has taken control of the offense that Peyton should be running. This game clearly bears that out. Whenever this team runs Kubiak's offense, they suck. Whenever they run Peyton's offense, they don't suck. They win. Will this come down to a power struggle? Maybe. It will be interesting but Denver will not succeed running Kubiak's offense as long as Peyton is the QB.

When they get back to playing Peyton-ball, all will be right with the world.

Hillman is not > CJ....in fact, Hillman is not in CJ's class according to every metric.

Stop and start doing some real analysis.

Your wrong on so many levels. I feel bad for you, I really do.

 

[ourmanflint]

I see people are still hanging onto this.

Let it go....he sucks. He had a nice hot streak last year and everybody was chasing the points. Whoever their 3rd stringer is is probably going to end up starting.

"He sucks" is such careful analysis, I hesitate to object, but I must.....you're dead wrong. What sucks here is the situation. Kubiak has taken control of the offense that Peyton should be running. This game clearly bears that out. Whenever this team runs Kubiak's offense, they suck. Whenever they run Peyton's offense, they don't suck. They win. Will this come down to a power struggle? Maybe. It will be interesting but Denver will not succeed running Kubiak's offense as long as Peyton is the QB.

When they get back to playing Peyton-ball, all will be right with the world.

Hillman is not > CJ....in fact, Hillman is not in CJ's class according to every metric.

Stop and start doing some real analysis.

Your wrong on so many levels. I feel bad for you, I really do.

More careful analysis.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It looked to me like Anderson was running hurt, and a healthy Hillman looked much more explosive. We've all forgotten how much better Anderson looked last year when healthy than he does right now.

Kind of like last year when the roles were reversed and Hillman had a gimpy ankle and a healthy Anderson looked much better, as we all forgot how good Hillman looked replacing Ball before the ankle injury.

I think when both are healthy that Anderson is the guy given his blocking, more prototypical build, and given that even his short run of feature play last year was more work than Hillman has been able to stay healthy for in his whole career. The question is how bad is this toe injury? Is it something that a long week will fix or is this one of those things that will linger all year? If it's the latter then he's in trouble.

 

[habsfan]

Whatever the reality of the situation is, it's more nuanced than a lot of the polarizing assertions in this thread. There are so many variables to weigh here that just saying "he sucks" or that "he's the unquestioned starter" is lazy, at best a half-truth and slightly annoying.

This may be lazy analysis but I just see a ton of confirmation bias here and in a bunch of other threads - back and forth, back and forth. People may be "forgetting" (or de-emphasizing) the fact that the RB work in Denver last year was a turnstile of players. Anderson emerged at the mid way point and performed.

Drafting him this year (redraft), is a vote for him having won this job and a belief he will continue to perform at a reasonable percentage of what he did last year. If you believe that, "evidence" like the release of Ball and Hillman's "limitations" as a player can be conveniently slotted in to align with your conclusion. If you don't believe in Anderson, that same evidence can be aligned with a different conclusion.

I see 2015 as more of 2014 - week to week and clear as mud.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Weeks 1 and 2 = horrible rushing matchups.

Weeks 3 through 6 = excellent rushing matchups.

Put those forks back in the kitchen drawer.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What concerns me is the toe injury. I will still happily take any RB even in a time share in a Kubiak offense, and the fact that Hillman isn't doing that great and that Manning himself seems out of joint tells me the problem is not with CJA, at least not a healthy one. I think the upside here is if Manning is unleashed to run his offense his way like we saw at the end of the KC game. Looking at this whole thing together makes me think hiring Kubiak was nuts. They are 2-0 but this reminds me more of the Tebow Broncos with the defense and the narrow escapes. It's hard to imagine the hubris in saying, hey let's get Manning under control here. It's crazy, they almost paid the price on TNF. Again the upside here is if the brain trust get their head out their rear and the man play his game, then we should see the run game loosen up.

 

[addicted2ff]

CJA doesn't look the same as last year. Maybe it's the toe, maybe it's a mental thing. Hopefully it's the former.

 

[rjv]

It's the o-line and kubiak combined

 

[addicted2ff]

It's the o-line and kubiak combined

Well yeah, I meant traits specific to him like his explosiveness/elusiveness/vision ect.

 

[ourmanflint]

Hillman is not > CJ....in fact, Hillman is not in CJ's class according to every metric.

Stop and start doing some real analysis.

What metrics specifically are you referencing?

All from 2014:

DYAR, DVOA, PFF elusiveness rating, fumbles, pass block rating, rushing NEP, rushing NEP per play

 

[rockaction]

What concerns me is the toe injury. I will still happily take any RB even in a time share in a Kubiak offense, and the fact that Hillman isn't doing that great and that Manning himself seems out of joint tells me the problem is not with CJA, at least not a healthy one. I think the upside here is if Manning is unleashed to run his offense his way like we saw at the end of the KC game. Looking at this whole thing together makes me think hiring Kubiak was nuts. They are 2-0 but this reminds me more of the Tebow Broncos with the defense and the narrow escapes. It's hard to imagine the hubris in saying, hey let's get Manning under control here. It's crazy, they almost paid the price on TNF. Again the upside here is if the brain trust get their head out their rear and the man play his game, then we should see the run game loosen up.

Perhaps they (well, Elway) felt that Manning was retiring after the year and they needed to get Kubiak in before somebody snapped him away from Baltimore. I don't know, but he needs to let Peyton run the show for the year while somehow installing bits and pieces of his own offense and blocking scheme.

That said, what are C.J. owners looking to give up in return for Hillman? Just a general guide would be nice, if C.J. owners even want Hillman at all.

I'm not sold on Ronnie. I think C.J. is the better back.

 

[biju]

I just re-watched the running plays from both Denver games and to me it appears they are running off tackle with cutback lanes and Anderson just isn't taking the cutback on a lot of them, so the plays just get stretched out for minimal gains. On the other hand, a lot of Hillman's carries seem to be up the middle.

I wonder why they have chosen to play them that way...

 

[Jed]

Hillman is not > CJ....in fact, Hillman is not in CJ's class according to every metric.

Stop and start doing some real analysis.

What metrics specifically are you referencing?

All from 2014:

DYAR, DVOA, PFF elusiveness rating, fumbles, pass block rating, rushing NEP, rushing NEP per play

Predicting a lot of crickets with this post.

 

[Mile High]

What concerns me is the toe injury. I will still happily take any RB even in a time share in a Kubiak offense, and the fact that Hillman isn't doing that great and that Manning himself seems out of joint tells me the problem is not with CJA, at least not a healthy one. I think the upside here is if Manning is unleashed to run his offense his way like we saw at the end of the KC game. Looking at this whole thing together makes me think hiring Kubiak was nuts. They are 2-0 but this reminds me more of the Tebow Broncos with the defense and the narrow escapes. It's hard to imagine the hubris in saying, hey let's get Manning under control here. It's crazy, they almost paid the price on TNF. Again the upside here is if the brain trust get their head out their rear and the man play his game, then we should see the run game loosen up.

Perhaps they (well, Elway) felt that Manning was retiring after the year and they needed to get Kubiak in before somebody snapped him away from Baltimore. I don't know, but he needs to let Peyton run the show for the year while somehow installing bits and pieces of his own offense and blocking scheme.

That said, what are C.J. owners looking to give up in return for Hillman? Just a general guide would be nice, if C.J. owners even want Hillman at all.

I'm not sold on Ronnie. I think C.J. is the better back.

As a CJ owner not looking to trade for someone averaging 3.6 ppg. So i'll hold to see how things play out next week.

 

[Buffaloes]

Knowshon Moreno had one good season in the pros that happened to coincide with Manning setting records for passing TDs in a season. Knowshon too has faded into nothing. Not even sure he's in the league anymore.

he was dominant in week 1 last year. hurt his elbow after 1 carry the next week. tore his acl when he came back from the elbow. still injured. injury<>fading

 

[Mile High]

Hillman is not > CJ....in fact, Hillman is not in CJ's class according to every metric.

Stop and start doing some real analysis.

What metrics specifically are you referencing?

All from 2014:

DYAR, DVOA, PFF elusiveness rating, fumbles, pass block rating, rushing NEP, rushing NEP per play

Interesting. Denver hired a guy whos job seems to be all about the metrics.

 

[Jack White]

Main problem is the o-line. I sent out a feeler to the CJA owner, b UT he is not biting.

 

[rascal]

If I lose again this week i'm going to buy low. Need to take a gamble with dez injured and Andre Johnson looking awful.

 

[boilerdave]

lesson, don't fall for a one year wonder UDFA. i fell for it myself, shoulda known better.

Exactly. CJ should not have been a 1st round pick imo.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Hillman is not > CJ....in fact, Hillman is not in CJ's class according to every metric.

Stop and start doing some real analysis.

What metrics specifically are you referencing?

All from 2014:

DYAR, DVOA, PFF elusiveness rating, fumbles, pass block rating, rushing NEP, rushing NEP per play

That's like me pointing to combine/pro day numbers and saying Hillman is the superior athlete. That was in the past. It's a new and different offense and I have yet to see anything that suggests Anderson is a fit.

 

[Bruce Hammond]

Possibility #1: Anderson is the bellcow

Possibility #2: Hillman is the bellcow

Possibility #3: Thomson becomes the bellcow

Possibility #4: This is an RBBC with an offense able to support 2 RBs for fantasy (e.g. Philly)

Possibility #5: This is an RBBC with limited upside for any of the RBs, starting or not

At this stage, gotta say it looks like #5.

Possibility #6: Broncos re-sign Ball, he gets the start in Week 3 and runs for a benjamin.

(no, won't happen, but heads in this thread would explode if it did )

 

[ourmanflint]

Hillman is not > CJ....in fact, Hillman is not in CJ's class according to every metric.

Stop and start doing some real analysis.

What metrics specifically are you referencing?

All from 2014:

DYAR, DVOA, PFF elusiveness rating, fumbles, pass block rating, rushing NEP, rushing NEP per play

That's like me pointing to combine/pro day numbers and saying Hillman is the superior athlete. That was in the past. It's a new and different offense and I have yet to see anything that suggests Anderson is a fit.

Really? You're comparing standardized tests measuring raw athleticism to real data measuring pro football game performance and talent? Surely you jest?

If you needed heart surgery, would you choose your surgeon based on his/her MCAT scores? Good luck with that.

As far as fit, no running back fits behind that offensive line play.

 

[Deamon]

Some positives:

1. Next 4 weeks easier rushing matchups (even peyton seemed shocked at how well kc run d was, and balt focused on the run)
2. Peyton seems to have the offense going now. More first downs, more rushing opportunities, more goalline stuff, less focus on stopping the run
3. CJ now gets 10 days to heal

4. Kubiak came out and said both rushers will keep playing. For as bad as CJ has ran (for whatever reason you want to call it: Injury, offense, he sucks), the fact that he's still the starter is promising.

I own him in 1 of 8 leagues so am not totally invested in him, but I think he's going to become a solid RB2 over the next 4 weeks.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

Kubs said today that both Anderson and Hillman are going to play. I think high to mid RB2 is now his ceiling for the season.

 

[thecardiackid]

lesson, don't fall for a one year wonder UDFA. i fell for it myself, shoulda known better.

Exactly. CJ should not have been a 1st round pick imo.

I don't think anyone in here is arguing that. I'm not considering selling low at this point.

 

[Raider Nation]

Remember when we were making excuses for him after week 1, saying that he played a "great defense"...? The defense which just gave up 37 points to the Raiders.

 

[TartanLion]

How much of that was on the ground ? Genuine question. Didn't seem to be any aerial threat with Manning in week one as well which didn't help.

 

[dkp993]

Remember when we were making excuses for him after week 1, saying that he played a "great defense"...? The defense which just gave up 37 points to the Raiders.

Context is needed again.

That same D lost their best player and leader.

Context.

 

[Raider Nation]

Remember when we were making excuses for him after week 1, saying that he played a "great defense"...? The defense which just gave up 37 points to the Raiders.

Context is needed again.

That same D lost their best player and leader.

Context.

One player does not a defense make. Watt is the best defensive player in the game and they can't stop anyone.

 

[dkp993]

Tell that to Ray Lewis, LT, Reggie White....

It matters. Houston would be a dumpster fire without JJ.

 

[iamkoza]

Kubs said today that both Anderson and Hillman are going to play. I think high to mid RB2 is now his ceiling for the season.

as long as hillman is healthy, CJ is getting 15 touches a game as he basically will split near 50-50 with hillman. behind this crap o-line, 15 touches is not going to get your rb2 production without a goaline TD... and even goaline work is probably going to be split based on whoever's series it will be.

 

[TheFanatic]

CJ Anderson = JAG

 

[steelwind]

"The Denver Post's Troy Renck "figures" C.J. Anderson has one more chance to solidify his hold on the Broncos' starting job.

Anderson has struggled to 56 yards on 24 carries (2.3 YPC) so far this season. Ronnie Hillman has not been much better with 75 yards on 21 attempts (3.5 YPC), but the Broncos may be forced to make a change if the running game cannot get going this week against Detroit. Anderson will be a risky RB2 in that matchup."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_28844535/should-ronnie-hillman-replace-c-j-anderson-broncos