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College Admissions Questions (2 Viewers)

NewlyRetired said:
wow, this is the exact opposite of what I am being told when I research this stuff.  I would consider Williams a reach school for my daughter.  How was your daughters SAT's/ACT's?  That piece is killing my daughter.  

Our counselor told us Northeastern was a reach for her even though she had a higher GPA than any student from our school system to previously get in that college.
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yeah- again, purely anecdotal from both my nieces (one just graduated and one is just entering college)...

but the oldest was one of those great grades, great sats and solid extracurriculars (no sports, but very musical). she got into Cal, but didn't get into any of her top tiers stanford, (where her dad is an alum), columbia or yale. got into some other really good schools like Barnard and I'm forgetting 2 more top, small liberal arts programs (like wesleyan?).

the youngest was more up and down with her grades (still good, but not like her sister) but also had good sats and a fair bit of extracurricular (again, music and performance)... don't think she got into any of her top tiers, which were the elite, small liberal arts colleges (non-ivy) but got into a few of the really small, but good ones and is going to one in PA that I had never heard of.

fwiw, they both went to an elite private HS in the SF area- so might have been up against any kind of quotas colleges put on acceptances from individual schools.. if that's a thing. all that to say- it's scary to me what it seems to take to get into the top schools these days.

 
NewlyRetired said:
wow, this is the exact opposite of what I am being told when I research this stuff.  I would consider Williams a reach school for my daughter.  How was your daughters SAT's/ACT's?  That piece is killing my daughter.  

Our counselor told us Northeastern was a reach for her even though she had a higher GPA than any student from our school system to previously get in that college.
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Northeastern is a real wildcard of a school. When my son applied to schools everyone was turned down there , a  kid got into Harvard and a friend into Providence . Now in my Ds class she knows 3 kids going to NU.  

My D had nice letter of recommendations explaining her low gpa(2.9) , did good nowhere near great on sats. She came out of a private hs that boosts her gpa with publics but nowhere near 3.9s.

She got into Williams, Middlebury, Skidmore, Suffolk and some state unis 

 
James Daulton said:
We're so consumed by high scores that we think this.  1200 is still the 70th percentile of the test.  So on average only 3 people out of 10 did better.
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this is true but that is considered low for even the second tier schools.   At Northeastern the average score is 1440 according to online sites.  Williams mentioned by @HellToupeeaverages 1490.

It is very depressing because I know how hard my daughter worked for 4 years to have it go up in smoke because of one 3 hour test.  Iam just keeping my fingers crossed that the test optional schools are really that and not just a gimmick on the schools part to raise their stats.

 
@James Daulton how many more times will your daughter take the SAT's?  I called around last week and everyone looked to be accepting the December SAT scores, except one school but I think they misunderstood me.

 
I know my sons guidance dept dropped the ball on some students. My daughters was a real help. All the schools had reps at her HS during the fall .

 
NewlyRetired said:
@James Daulton how many more times will your daughter take the SAT's?  I called around last week and everyone looked to be accepting the December SAT scores, except one school but I think they misunderstood me.
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She'll take them one more time October 1st.  She's shooting for the early acceptance period that starts November 1st.  Her SATs are skewed low by her Math (540) so I'm confident she'll be bring that up since she's been focusing on math only the last few weeks.  Her target schools are College Park, William & Mary, Wake Forest, University of Richmond.  Reach schools of Colgate and Boston College.  We have her looking at colleges that have a strong business background since she's really good at writing and interpreting what she reads.  Either law or MBA in her future.

 
James Daulton said:
She'll take them one more time October 1st.  She's shooting for the early acceptance period that starts November 1st.  Her SATs are skewed low by her Math (540) so I'm confident she'll be bring that up since she's been focusing on math only the last few weeks.  Her target schools are College Park, William & Mary, Wake Forest, University of Richmond.  Reach schools of Colgate and Boston College.  We have her looking at colleges that have a strong business background since she's really good at writing and interpreting what she reads.  Either law or MBA in her future.
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my daughter is taking them also on Saturday.  I am assuming those may not go well and are planning on taking one more since she is not going to do early admission anywhere.

Don't forget to make sure you choose only one Early Admission school and make the rest Early Action.  I hope she has good luck on Saturday!

 
NewlyRetired said:
my daughter is taking them also on Saturday.  I am assuming those may not go well and are planning on taking one more since she is not going to do early admission anywhere.

Don't forget to make sure you choose only one Early Admission school and make the rest Early Action.  I hope she has good luck on Saturday!
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Yea, I meant Early Action.  My daughter has already told me she doesn't want to be locked into Early Admission.

Good luck to yours as well!  I took the SATs back in '85 the day after the junior prom on maybe 2 hours of sleep.  Got a 1160 and was perfectly happy with that as that got me into College Park with no issues.  Times have certainly changed...

 
Am I correct in thinking that for all non rolling admissions schools, that it does not matter when you submit your application as long as it is received by the deadline date?

I am asking this because with the Dec sat's scores not being released until Dec 23rd, we are going to have to wait until at least that time to submit to determine whether we want to be test optional or not for the schools that give that choice.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Am I correct in thinking that for all non rolling admissions schools, that it does not matter when you submit your application as long as it is received by the deadline date?

I am asking this because with the Dec sat's scores not being released until Dec 23rd, we are going to have to wait until at least that time to submit to determine whether we want to be test optional or not for the schools that give that choice.
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Do you know when the October scores will be released?  And I always thought that earlier was better since the colleges start looking and approving applications as soon as they got them?  I could be wrong about that though.

 
James Daulton said:
Do you know when the October scores will be released?  And I always thought that earlier was better since the colleges start looking and approving applications as soon as they got them?  I could be wrong about that though.
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I believe only rolling admissions colleges look at resumes when they come in.  The rest use the deadline dates and start from there.

The dates released depend on what you chose when you registered for the SAT.  Read here for more info but it looks to be around Oct 26thish

https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat/scores/getting-scores

 
My daughter is a sophomore this year and has visited Middlebury and other similar schools. Why would the %ile numbers differ for the ACT and the SAT for Middlebury.

For example, the 25%ile SAT Composite score is 1350 which is 91st percentile for the SAT.  The 25th %ile for the ACT is 30 which is the 95th %ile.  Is this kind of discrepancy normal?

 
chet said:
For example, the 25%ile SAT Composite score is 1350 which is 91st percentile for the SAT.  The 25th %ile for the ACT is 30 which is the 95th %ile.  Is this kind of discrepancy normal?
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I think those numbers just reflect the most recent class admission stats and likely vary year to year.

In terms of why the numbers are different, not every student takes both the SAT and ACT.  Many just submit one of the two types of test scores.   That batch might have simply seen better ACT scores at that particular school for the year(s) they compiled the stats.

 
Steve Tasker said:
This #### sounds so much more complicated than when I was looking at colleges 13 years ago.
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It appears to be very similar for me looking at it as a parent vs when I was a student.  The difference appears to be the significantly increased competition level.

Schools that I got into when I went to college would be considered reach schools now.

I don't know if this is simply due to the applications amounts increasing (more US and foreign students combined) which raises the levels of acceptance rates.

I also think that kids are getting significantly more help on the standardized tests now which has helped lift those scores compares to 10-20-30 years ago.

 
James Daulton said:
She'll take them one more time October 1st.  She's shooting for the early acceptance period that starts November 1st.  Her SATs are skewed low by her Math (540) so I'm confident she'll be bring that up since she's been focusing on math only the last few weeks.  Her target schools are College Park, William & Mary, Wake Forest, University of Richmond.  Reach schools of Colgate and Boston College.  We have her looking at colleges that have a strong business background since she's really good at writing and interpreting what she reads.  Either law or MBA in her future.
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Nice bunch of schools, JD. I really liked Richmond when my son was applying last year, and they were generous with aid - their endowment per student is very high, like maybe one of the Top 10 schools in the country. Virginia public schools (UVA and W&M) had crap financial aid for out of state. Our biggest challenge was finding a financial safety - a school that not only could we afford, but that also my son would be happy to attend if we couldn't afford anything else. He didn't like College Park at all, which didn't help. Luckily it all worked out, but the whole process was every bit as stressful as people tell you it can be - we're easy-going and he had strong stats/application, so I thought we'd sort of glide through. That was incorrect.

 
chet said:
My daughter is a sophomore this year and has visited Middlebury and other similar schools. Why would the %ile numbers differ for the ACT and the SAT for Middlebury.

For example, the 25%ile SAT Composite score is 1350 which is 91st percentile for the SAT.  The 25th %ile for the ACT is 30 which is the 95th %ile.  Is this kind of discrepancy normal?
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It's not abnormal. Because the SAT has so many more points, an ACT score is said to relate to a score of SAT ranges. I think concordance for an ACT 30 is like 1330-1350 on the SAT.

 
The_Man said:
Nice bunch of schools, JD. I really liked Richmond when my son was applying last year, and they were generous with aid - their endowment per student is very high, like maybe one of the Top 10 schools in the country. Virginia public schools (UVA and W&M) had crap financial aid for out of state. Our biggest challenge was finding a financial safety - a school that not only could we afford, but that also my son would be happy to attend if we couldn't afford anything else. He didn't like College Park at all, which didn't help. Luckily it all worked out, but the whole process was every bit as stressful as people tell you it can be - we're easy-going and he had strong stats/application, so I thought we'd sort of glide through. That was incorrect.
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I'm pretty sure that College Park is her #1 school.  I say pretty sure because she's 17 and female. 

 
James Daulton said:
She'll take them one more time October 1st.  She's shooting for the early acceptance period that starts November 1st.  Her SATs are skewed low by her Math (540) so I'm confident she'll be bring that up since she's been focusing on math only the last few weeks.  Her target schools are College Park, William & Mary, Wake Forest, University of Richmond.  Reach schools of Colgate and Boston College.  We have her looking at colleges that have a strong business background since she's really good at writing and interpreting what she reads.  Either law or MBA in her future.
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Don't forget a lot of schools super score the SAT's meaning they send the best score per subject, not the whole score from each time you take them. By that I mean if she got the 540 in math and a 700 in verbal -or whatever they call it these days- and the next time she got the 700 in math and 540 in verbal, her score would be 1400. 700 each.

 
The_Man said:
Make sure you do NOT miss that Nov. 1 priority admission deadline. College Park filled more than 90% of this year's freshman class with priority applicants.
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Yep, we're on it and therefore she's stressed, grumpy, and miserable.  Did I mention she's 17 and female? 

 
The_Man said:
Make sure you do NOT miss that Nov. 1 priority admission deadline. College Park filled more than 90% of this year's freshman class with priority applicants.
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holy crap that is a big number....Are most schools like that?  Some of my daughters choices don't even offer early action.  Only Early Decision or Regular Decision.

 
And to all going thru this the first time, DO NOT be fooled by the FAFSA. Your "expected family contribution" is anything but that. It is actually a strength indicator on what you can afford. 5500 is the cutoff for most grant money. Over that and you will probably only get the student loans of 5500-. 3k subsidized and 2500- unsubsidized. They also take a small fee out on it too. Go to fafsa forecaster and you can put in your basic info to see roughly what you will end up at.

 
The_Man said:
Make sure you do NOT miss that Nov. 1 priority admission deadline. College Park filled more than 90% of this year's freshman class with priority applicants.
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Also, she's not a slam dunk for College Park so she needs to get her ap in as early as possible. 

 
NewlyRetired said:
holy crap that is a big number....Are most schools like that?  Some of my daughters choices don't even offer early action.  Only Early Decision or Regular Decision.
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It's primarily the large public flagship universities that do that. Not sure why, but they keep moving the process earlier and earlier.

 
 I'm going through this with my daughter now. We're going to be working on the FAFSA this weekend because October 1 is the first day it's accepted.  I have to say I'm pretty worried. My daughter has her heart set on one school and she has done the early decision with them. It is an in town private school that is highly selective and costs about $68,000 a year. I did one of the  preliminary calculators and it showed what we could expect in grants from the school, but it showed the student's contribution was like 11,000 a year which they said was loans, work study, etc. but then it had another figure which was like $9000 that was the leftover portion per year.

Now I know she's going to get scholarships that should knock this number down, but I am really hoping to minimize her student loan debt as I am still paying off my wife's student loan debt – – oddly enough from the same school.  

 I also don't want her to get accepted and then find out that money is the reason she can't go. She has some fallback schools that are promising her close to free rides, but they're all out of town and she does not lke that idea because  she doesn't see them as prestigious--even though they better fit her chosen major (mathematics/biology)

She has a 4.5 GPA and is president of her class, Student council and NHS,  captain of the cheerleading squad  and is in five AP courses this year alone. She is ranked number five out of a class of close to 600.  Due to her past AP classes, she has enough credit to bypass freshman and half her sophomore year of college at this point. 

This is really nerve racking. We have an appointment with the head of admissions next week and we are hoping to get a little more information  but this just seems so competitive. My wife and I are sadly not FBG rich to be able to cut a check to make just this happen.

 
Hang in there, Courtjester. I didn't exactly understand what you said about the Net Price Calculator. Was that $9000 the Expected Family Contribution (in other words - what you're supposed to pay)?

$11,000 seems a little high for student contribution, though it doesn't seem as bad when you break it down like this:

$5000 student loan

$3500 summer earnings

$2500 work study during school

If it's a school that claims to meet full demonstrated need, then it sounds like the $9k might be your part. If they don't meet full need and there's a $9k gap (the amount left over after you subtract the grants the give you, your Expected Family Contribution, and your daughter's portion), that sounds awfully daunting. Means you'd need to find $9k on top of whatever else they're already charging you.

It really comes down to debt. How much are you/she willing to absorb to go to this "dream school" vs. other schools for virtually nothing?

 
Courtjester said:
 I'm going through this with my daughter now. We're going to be working on the FAFSA this weekend because October 1 is the first day it's accepted.  I have to say I'm pretty worried. My daughter has her heart set on one school and she has done the early decision with them. It is an in town private school that is highly selective and costs about $68,000 a year. I did one of the  preliminary calculators and it showed what we could expect in grants from the school, but it showed the student's contribution was like 11,000 a year which they said was loans, work study, etc. but then it had another figure which was like $9000 that was the leftover portion per year.

Now I know she's going to get scholarships that should knock this number down, but I am really hoping to minimize her student loan debt as I am still paying off my wife's student loan debt – – oddly enough from the same school.  

 I also don't want her to get accepted and then find out that money is the reason she can't go. She has some fallback schools that are promising her close to free rides, but they're all out of town and she does not lke that idea because  she doesn't see them as prestigious--even though they better fit her chosen major (mathematics/biology)

She has a 4.5 GPA and is president of her class, Student council and NHS,  captain of the cheerleading squad  and is in five AP courses this year alone. She is ranked number five out of a class of close to 600.  Due to her past AP classes, she has enough credit to bypass freshman and half her sophomore year of college at this point. 

This is really nerve racking. We have an appointment with the head of admissions next week and we are hoping to get a little more information  but this just seems so competitive. My wife and I are sadly not FBG rich to be able to cut a check to make just this happen.
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$68k?  How much can you expect scholarships and grants to knock that down?

 
James Daulton said:
$68k?  How much can you expect scholarships and grants to knock that down?
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63-68k is what my daughters schools are in the range of as well.   Most private schools in my area of the country land in this price range.  Only a small few offer merit scholarships (typically the tier 3 type schools trying to attract better students).

 
Courtjester said:
 I'm going through this with my daughter now. We're going to be working on the FAFSA this weekend because October 1 is the first day it's accepted.  I have to say I'm pretty worried. My daughter has her heart set on one school and she has done the early decision with them. It is an in town private school that is highly selective and costs about $68,000 a year. I did one of the  preliminary calculators and it showed what we could expect in grants from the school, but it showed the student's contribution was like 11,000 a year which they said was loans, work study, etc. but then it had another figure which was like $9000 that was the leftover portion per year.

Now I know she's going to get scholarships that should knock this number down, but I am really hoping to minimize her student loan debt as I am still paying off my wife's student loan debt – – oddly enough from the same school.  

 I also don't want her to get accepted and then find out that money is the reason she can't go. She has some fallback schools that are promising her close to free rides, but they're all out of town and she does not lke that idea because  she doesn't see them as prestigious--even though they better fit her chosen major (mathematics/biology)

She has a 4.5 GPA and is president of her class, Student council and NHS,  captain of the cheerleading squad  and is in five AP courses this year alone. She is ranked number five out of a class of close to 600.  Due to her past AP classes, she has enough credit to bypass freshman and half her sophomore year of college at this point. 

This is really nerve racking. We have an appointment with the head of admissions next week and we are hoping to get a little more information  but this just seems so competitive. My wife and I are sadly not FBG rich to be able to cut a check to make just this happen.
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Sounds like she should be eligible for a lot of Merit Aid due to her grades. find out all the requirements for getting merit. For example, my daughter had pretty good SAT's that qualified her for 5k a year. They told her had she gotten 100 pts higher on the SAT's, she could've qualified for 9k. She only had a short time left before they closed the apps and she signed up for them again-and hit it exactly. She knew it was tight for us and is doing all she can to help. Again, make sure you know the requirements found on the school financial aid and scholarships page.  Also, talk with the Financial Aid Office if the numbers don't work. Stress to them her mother went there and she wants to also. Beg if you have to. Sounds awful but I did it and it worked for a very small amount. Better than nothing.

If I could do things over, I would've talked with my kids and showed them actual numbers we could afford and show them that by starting at one school where it is cheaper and then transferring to the school you want would make it easier on all of us. Easier said than done though.

Also, I'm pretty sure the FAFSA first day to file is Jan 1 unless it has changed. I can't say it enough though about the Expected Family Contribution. Don't get that number stuck in your head thinking that's what you have to come up with. I made that mistake. FAFSA EFC is 13k. I have 3 at once so I didn't know to multiply it by 3 for a total of 39. We are paying 85k a year, a far cry from 39.

 
The real catch 22 here is she can go to UCCS in town and they are part of CU Boulder.  Walking out she would probably owe next to nothing after 4 years. It is a good school--my wife got her masters from there. Her point is this school has like an 80% acceptance rate, so why did she kill herself and stay up night after night to get this high GPA only to go to a school that would have taken her with good to average grades? 

It is a valid point, but then the fiscally responsible part of me says a four year degree is a four year degree and it is pretty much what/where you decide to study after that is what counts. I guess if she knew exactly what she wanted to do with this degree (she just loves math and numbers) it would be easier, but that's asking a lot of a 17 year old. Hopefully we will have some answers next week.

 
Courtjester said:
The real catch 22 here is she can go to UCCS in town and they are part of CU Boulder.  Walking out she would probably owe next to nothing after 4 years. It is a good school--my wife got her masters from there. Her point is this school has like an 80% acceptance rate, so why did she kill herself and stay up night after night to get this high GPA only to go to a school that would have taken her with good to average grades? 

It is a valid point, but then the fiscally responsible part of me says a four year degree is a four year degree and it is pretty much what/where you decide to study after that is what counts. I guess if she knew exactly what she wanted to do with this degree (she just loves math and numbers) it would be easier, but that's asking a lot of a 17 year old. Hopefully we will have some answers next week.
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Court, out of curiosity, is the 4.5 GPA weighted (on a 4.0 scale) or is that unweighted on a 5.0 scale?

 
NewlyRetired said:
Court, out of curiosity, is the 4.5 GPA weighted (on a 4.0 scale) or is that unweighted on a 5.0 scale?
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I think it is 4.0 (I could be wrong) Pretty much every course she is taking is AP, or a designated college course so an A in a course like that counts for more . 

Like now she is in AP Bio, AP physics, AP lit, AP Calc, an advanced Spanish class and a special history course that studies the Southwest that only 25 kids get to be part of and they actually spend 10 days traveling around down there. 

 
Courtjester said:
I think it is 4.0 (I could be wrong) Pretty much every course she is taking is AP, or a designated college course so an A in a course like that counts for more . . 
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yeah, that sounds like a weighted 4.0 scale.  My daughters school is the same.

It is good to understand what her unweighted gpa is.  Many colleges will immediately convert the weighted to unweighted because many high schools use varying ways to weigh the AP, honors etc type courses. This gives them a level playing surface to then use their own weighing system to give credit for AP, honors etc level courses.

 
If we have a choice between various SAT Subject Tests to send in to the colleges, is it correct to choose the tests where the student did better % wise compared to other students instead of just choosing the highest scoring ones?

 
Courtjester said:
She has a 4.5 GPA and is president of her class, Student council and NHS,  captain of the cheerleading squad  and is in five AP courses this year alone. She is ranked number five out of a class of close to 600.  Due to her past AP classes, she has enough credit to bypass freshman and half her sophomore year of college at this point. 
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Most people have probably confirmed the AP credits with the schools they want to attend, but schools have different AP test score criteria for giving course credit.  For example one school may give credit for an AP score of 3 and above. Another school may only give credit for a score of 4 and 5. It also varies by subject within the same school.  You can confirm each school's AP credit policy by subject here.

 
:lol:  with this prices to attend college 250K for an undergrad degree!   Come on guys.

 
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Courtjester said:
She has a 4.5 GPA and is president of her class, Student council and NHS,  captain of the cheerleading squad  and is in five AP courses this year alone. She is ranked number five out of a class of close to 600.  Due to her past AP classes, she has enough credit to bypass freshman and half her sophomore year of college at this point. 
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That's like 15 classes.   She already took that many AP classes?  That's incredible.   

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
:lol:  with this prices to attend college 250K for an undergrad degree!   Come on guys.
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Some schools give a ton off the "sticker price" , others don't. We are paying roughly 22k a year for Williams . They are very generous to even decent income families. State school that my daughter liked about 5 miles from Williams was 20k

Syracuse was 60+ and offered zip :lol:

 
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HellToupee said:
Some schools give a ton off the "sticker price" , others don't. We are paying roughly 22k a year for Williams . They are very generous to even decent income families. State school that my daughter liked about 5 miles from Williams was 20k

Syracuse was 60+ and offered zip :lol:
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I kind of thought that's what all the non-ivy's did.  But people really pay $60k+ for undergraduate?  That's insane. 

 
JFC people are insane to pay anything close to that money for a ####### bachelors degree.  It would only take 70 years to pay off your student loans. 

 
Just my 2 cents but I am graduating from West Chester University this year. I don't know who you are or if you are extremely well off, but anything over 50k a year is outrageous for college. I personally am a super senior (5th year, I changed majors twice which set me back a bit) and her one year alone is just a little shy under my total net debt. I mean if you can shell out that much money for some piece of paper go for it by all means, but it just isn't logical. But when it comes to picking a college she has to know who she is and what she wants. Does she want a large school with over 50k students or a small school with something like 3k. Each have their pros and cons. At a small school if you play a sport you basically know everyone. This is great when it comes to making plans to go to a party, but it also sucks when you make a dumb decision and everywhere you look, everyone knows what you did. At a big school you go to school events and its one hell of a time. Close friend of mine is down at LSU and its just wild the parties that I see he is at. Cons of the top of my head is probably at first since there is so many people, if she isn't outgoing, it could be hard for her to find her real friends. Also when choosing does she want to be close to home or on the other side of the country. City or rural was huge for me. Found out real quick I am not one to go to a college in rural settings. So take everything with grain of salt if you. Best of luck

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
JFC people are insane to pay anything close to that money for a ####### bachelors degree.  It would only take 70 years to pay off your student loans. 
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I blame the education systems  that sell the fairytale . Kids that opt for community college first are treated like failures . I have no doubt a lot of people are on the hook for 50k+ a year schools

 
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