Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
TE Brock Bowers, LV (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
JohnnyU
Footballguy
What if he comes in at 235 lbs? Are we talking about Jordan Reed? Are we going to get all hyped up for Jordan Reed?
-OZ-
Footballguy
If he wants to develop Levis, he needs to take Alt or Fashanu.
I’m not completely opposed to Bowers but not on board either. For the Titans that is. In FF I’m going to have a tough choice between him and Nabers.
Last edited:
Jordan Reed doesn't have the concussions, and he's probably a top-5 TE of the last 15 years. With the way the defenseless receiver rules have changed, Reed is probably a pro bowl guy every year if he came around a decade later. I think Bowers upside is best TE in the league by year 3, especially with Kelce/Kittle over 30. His run after catch is top-5 in the NFL at TE the second he steps on the field game 1. I don't think he's gonna be one of those TEs who does nothing as a rookie and takes a while to develop. He's going to be no lower than a #2 option as a rookie, unless he goes somewhere like weird, like the Bengals or Rams trading up.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Easy to say what if. LaPorta or Bowers? I’ll take what I know.
I loved Reed, was a star even in his day when not derailed by injuries, mainly concussions but some knee issues. If you told me I was getting a faster Jordan Reed without the injury concerns in my TEP leagues I'm happy as could be taking that somewhere inside my top 4.
Also agree Bowers skill set should enable him to not need a steep learning curve, I'm specially talking about his YAC ability which is fairly easy to unleash. Speaking of Jordan Reed people forget he had no big rookie TE learning curve either, was a TE1 from jump, despite being paired with a rookie QB who liked to scramble and Reed missing most of training camp his rookie year with a knee injury.
But I can't say I have zero concerns on Bowers size. He's an extreme outlier, don't think you'll be able to find another TE in the top 30 in the league as small as he is going to be and I think that size combined with his lack of premium position will drop him in the draft, especially this draft which lacks depth but is incredibly strong at the top of premium position players. As such I'm not sure the Bengals will need to trade up from 18, really would be kind of surprised if someone takes him before the Colts at 15 and can see them preferring one of the top OT prospects. Bengals as well. I think he could slide a lot more then people realize.
A handful of mocks have him to the Titans and I couldn't be more annoyed. The team stinks. They have Chig and Whyle, but let's get another TE.
I see Jets and others mentioned.
I guess that's my prob with him going so early- if the team stinks, why is a TE the solution?
Maybe Kelce love or Kittle love having an effect? Idk...I just don't see it being a smart move
I see Jets and others mentioned.
I guess that's my prob with him going so early- if the team stinks, why is a TE the solution?
Maybe Kelce love or Kittle love having an effect? Idk...I just don't see it being a smart move
-OZ-
Footballguy
I don’t see it as much of the “team stinks don’t take a TE” situation as much as what do they need to address and how do the available players mesh?
For the titans, Alt or Fashanu line up perfectly.
But the jets are a decent match imo. Especially if they’re able to address the OL in FA. More likely IMO, Indy or Cincy trade up for him.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
They aren't? His positive blocking attributes have been a big part of his game. When he's being hyped as a top 10 pick it's a big deal if he comes in undersized.
Bowers is listed at 6'4" and 240. I do not think he's that big. LaPorta was 6'3" and 245. Bowers looked like a shrimp next to Gronk who's 6'6" and 264. If you think you're getting Gronk you absolutely are not.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
that photo of gronk and bowers had to just be a weird angle... there's no way he's as small as he looks in that pic. the guy in that photo is 6ft2 210
Grahamburn
Footballguy
It was, but then Bowers' Mom (lol) posted another one and he still looked tiny next to him. Which, most mortal humans would, but that's kind of the point.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
He kind of reminds me of like bizarro O.J. Howard, who rose in mocks because of elite athleticism and size, but fell in the draft due to his overall lack of production. Bowers is high in mocks because of elite production, but I feel like he could drop because of his size and athleticism coming into question.
I'll answer as best I can.
Fantasy impact:
I don't care a lot myself even if he's an outlier for current fantasy producing TE's. As in I don't think it will impact his ability to be a receiving threat but I do have some mild concerns it could make him more weapon then everydown player who comes out a little more then my liking but that's a very minor concern almost not worth mentioning.
Real NFL:
I would disagree that being an effective inline blocker is not a reason he's getting drafted and if there are concerns about that it would impact his stock. I also think if blocking does become an issue for him it impacts his ability as a receiver because teams stop treating him like a TE and treat him like WR and instead of beating LB's and safety's he's got to beat CB's. Saw this with Kincaid last year, have seen it a lot with PItts.
We don't know his measurements but I've been under the assumption he was 6'4"/245. When I thought that's what he was I had him pegged to the Colts at 15. I won't say it would be surprising to me if someone took him earlier, just where I had him pegged. That's already an outlier to take a smaller TE that high. I can't think of an example TBH. That's Kincaid type of measurements and he went in the 20's. Vernon was shorter then 6'3" but a rocked up 250+. So Bowers at 6'4"/245 going top 15 is an outlier for TE's going that high along with his position not being a premium one in a draft stocked full of high end premium position players I thought he would fall a little more then people think. Now I'm hearing he's riding the 6'2" line and is not 240. Now you've gone from an outlier to an extreme outlier for a TE this small to be picked that high.
I think he's going to test great. I'm not remotely trying to label it a lock he won't go top 10. Only takes one team to conclude "he's a 6'2"/235 pound pass catching threat who blocks better then any WR in the league and runs a sub 4.5 and that's a huge weapon for an offense to have" and if GM's/HC's who are really feeling good in their job security would also factor in that while taking a TE in the top 10 is not great use of premium position on the pay scale the elite TE's on their second contracts are great bargains IMO vs what you got to pay say elite WR's on their second contracts. So I'm not going to say no chance, but right now if if he's as small as I'm hearing I'm thinking that he's such and extreme outlier is going to push him into the later teens and possibly even into the early 20's.
Last edited:
Faust
MVP
Austin Abbott
𝗕𝗿𝗼𝗰𝗸 𝗕𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿𝘀 is the 𝗘𝗣𝗜𝗧𝗢𝗠𝗘 of 𝗚𝗲𝗻𝗲𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹
In the 𝗘𝗡𝗧𝗜𝗥𝗘 𝗣𝗙𝗙 𝗖𝗼𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗴𝗲 𝗘𝗿𝗮, 𝗕𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗸𝘀:
𝟭𝘀𝘁 in 𝗰𝗮𝗿𝗲𝗲𝗿 𝗣𝗙𝗙 𝗿𝗲𝗰𝗲𝗶𝘃𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗴𝗿𝗮𝗱𝗲 (𝟵𝟰.𝟯)
𝟭𝟵𝟰 𝗖𝗔𝗥𝗘𝗘𝗥 𝘁𝗼𝘂𝗰𝗵𝗲𝘀, 𝟬 𝗳𝘂𝗺𝗯𝗹𝗲𝘀. 𝗕𝗮𝗹𝗹 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝘂𝗿𝗶𝘁𝘆 is on another level with 𝗕𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿𝘀, he’s the 𝘁𝗲𝘅𝘁𝗯𝗼𝗼𝗸 𝗱𝗲𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 of 𝗦𝗔𝗙𝗘.
𝗔𝗴𝗲: 𝟮𝟭
𝗛𝗲𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁: 𝟲'𝟰
𝗪𝗲𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁: 𝟮𝟯𝟬 𝗹𝗯𝘀
𝗖𝗼𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗴𝗲 𝗣𝗿𝗼𝗱𝘂𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻: (𝟰𝟬 𝗚𝗮𝗺𝗲𝘀)
𝟭𝟳𝟱 𝗿𝗲𝗰𝗲𝗽𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀
He’s a 𝗪𝗢𝗥𝗟𝗗 𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗦𝗦 𝘁𝗮𝗹𝗲𝗻𝘁 and potentially a 𝗧𝗢𝗣 𝟭𝟬 𝗽𝗶𝗰𝗸 in the 𝟮𝟬𝟮𝟰 𝗡𝗙𝗟 𝗗𝗿𝗮𝗳𝘁.
𝗕𝗿𝗼𝗰𝗸 𝗕𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿𝘀 could 𝗧𝗥𝗨𝗟𝗬 𝗰𝗵𝗮𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗻𝗴𝗲 𝗦𝗮𝗺 𝗟𝗮𝗣𝗼𝗿𝘁𝗮 as the 𝗗𝘆𝗻𝗮𝘀𝘁𝘆 𝗧𝗘𝟭 for years to come.
cdclopper
Footballguy
He played a very strange role at Georgia as far as tight ends are concerned. This is my biggest issue. YAC ability is not the skill nfl teams typically use a tight end for.
Its sort of like being the best pass catching tackle. It could be useful sure. But now the coach has to figure out how to get his tackle the ball down field.
Am I missing how Bowers is a great pure receiver too? It seems to me this isnt the reason hes considered a 1st round talent. 90% of the time he's getting the ball around the l.o.s. and his down field ability is comparitively unknown; or not quite as established as youd like in a 1st rounder.
Its sort of like being the best pass catching tackle. It could be useful sure. But now the coach has to figure out how to get his tackle the ball down field.
Am I missing how Bowers is a great pure receiver too? It seems to me this isnt the reason hes considered a 1st round talent. 90% of the time he's getting the ball around the l.o.s. and his down field ability is comparitively unknown; or not quite as established as youd like in a 1st rounder.
rockaction
Footballguy
That's not necessarily true. Most of the analytic guys I look at correlate YAC with effectiveness when it comes to tight ends. It tells you something about their overall athleticism, which is important. Don't get me wrong. I get what you're saying; I'm just saying the analysis of the position has changed a bit. I think the NFL is doing this, too, and coaches are looking for guys who are bigger, and more importantly, faster and more agile. It just makes sense.
And I think people think that he is an excellent pure receiver.
But that said, I'm no Bowers stan and don't want to see him drafted to my team—I would argue against him in the first round for a lot of clubs despite Bloom's point about the second contract. The point is that TEs are enough of a crapshoot that you don't know he's going to get to the second contract. But you do know the savings you get on a receiver vs. a franchise guy in their first five years. That's the point.
I think when cooler heads prevail, he'll go later in the draft. People are just a bit premature with him in the first. We'll see.
cdclopper
Footballguy
I'm skeptical of most every bit of analytics out there in football, most of all player evaluation. Being big and fast is seeming less important than skill. The differences in athleticism are pretty mariginal; every player in the draft is athletic, like the top 99% of all humans. The skillset, what you might call intangibles, the things that cant be measured, however you want to say it, is why Jamar Chase wins rookie of the year and why Cordarelle Patterson was only good at being a running back.
Running with ball is the assignment requiring the least amount of skill probably in all of football. To be frank. Notice 40 time has the best correlation with runningback and little to none with receivering.
@rockaction is Brock actually a good reciever tho? This is the question imo.
Running with ball is the assignment requiring the least amount of skill probably in all of football. To be frank. Notice 40 time has the best correlation with runningback and little to none with receivering.
@rockaction is Brock actually a good reciever tho? This is the question imo.
cdclopper
Footballguy
which player were you expecting to be thrown under the bus?
Soulfly3
Footballguy
keon coleman. and it's happened a bit, but less than expected.
I figured Bowers would be a darling on here... But Pitts "ruined" that for him, IMO. And Pitts will still come good.
rockaction
Footballguy
Despite being slightly undersized for the position at 230 pounds, Bowers has thoroughly dominated collegiate competition in his first two seasons as a Bulldog. The reigning John Mackey Award winner ranks first in receiving grade (93.1), receptions (121), yards (1,829), yards after the catch (1,004), yards after contact (443), first-down receptions (80), missed tackles forced (26), explosive plays (44) and contested catches (21) among all FBS tight ends through their first two seasons in the PFF College era. On top of his elite receiving skills, Bowers is capable of holding his own as a blocker - Pro Football Focus
As a receiver, he showcases remarkable skills, from maximizing his catch radius to asserting dominance at the catch point, making him a nightmare for defender - NFL Draft Buzz
Bowers can catch the ball well through contact. Despite taking some massive hits, he almost always held onto the ball to complete the catch. Even with the rule changes for player safety, big bodied receivers need to be able to hold onto the ball despite taking some pretty massive hits. Bowers has this ability. - Sports Illustrated, All Bengals Insiders
Bowers has excellent hands and attacks the ball at its highest point, away from his body. He makes some impressive downfield adjustments and is quick to transition up the field once he catches the ball. He is at his best after the catch, boasting the ability to run away from defenders or drag them for extra yards with his lower-body strength. Not to mention, he is surprisingly nifty when it comes to making defenders miss in space. - NFL.com Scouting Report
__________________________________________
Yeah, I'd say consensus says he's an excellent receiver that runs excellent routes. That was the standard refrain I saw. He is universally lauded by the publications. Whether this is all hype is another thing. I don't think it is, but they had me with Kyle Pitts, too.
cdclopper
Footballguy
I've seen him make some great catches for sure.
To badger my pount tho, if you take away all his receptions at or behind the line of scrimmage, and all he had on tape was his catches down field, I dont know if people are talking about him as a 1st round pick. He is no Kyle Pitts in this sense. Id say hed be considered more in the 2nd round in this scenario.
To badger my pount tho, if you take away all his receptions at or behind the line of scrimmage, and all he had on tape was his catches down field, I dont know if people are talking about him as a 1st round pick. He is no Kyle Pitts in this sense. Id say hed be considered more in the 2nd round in this scenario.
Chemical X
Footballguy
i pray to god the kiper mock and combine talk of bowers to the jets is false. if the jets take a TE in round 1, i’m taking a check and i’d fire douglas before nightfall.
6031
243
9 3/4 hand
32 3/4 arm
78 1/4 wing
massraider
Footballguy
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
And if you take away his left leg he’s a turnstile as a blocker.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Still smaller than Gronk.
finfansteve
Footballguy
I’m wondering this as well. I already have Pitts and Kincaid and am sitting on 1.04 and am trying to figure out what to do with him if/when he’s still sitting there at that pick
Chaos34
Footballguy
hopefully you draft after the nfl draft. it should clear things up a little.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
he set the 2nd highest rookie receiving total in NFL history for a TE. got hurt quite a bit. played for a team that passes as well as a homeless guy with a joint.
I mean... Drake london is a stud young WR and hasn't seen a 1000yd season yet either w Atlanta.
now, that said, he still should have done better... no denying that. But pitts is a player i definitely would not (and have not) written off.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I'm not writing Pitts off, but what have you done for me lately? He has some warts to his game. Bowers isn't without some risk. What if he goes to Atlanta? What if he goes to the Colts? It's not as if the Colts is a great spot with an underdeveloped passer like Richardson. Of course I said there are WRs at #4 that could just as easily have issues in the NFL, given many factors, such as landing spot, QB play, etc.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I'm sitting at 3 in a TE premium dynasty.... It's Odunze (likliest) or him.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
tough decision. Landing spots may matter.
