College tests (SAT, ACT etc) questions (1 Viewer)

[NewlyRetired]

My daughter is a junior and I am trying to get a handle on the various tests needed for college.

1) SAT : These have been changed again and are now back to a 1600 scale

2) ACT : If daughter takes SAT is this needed?

3) SAT Subject tests: Are these what were called Achievement tests in my day?

4) AP tests : Do colleges look at these results for acceptance or are they only used for credit purposes after you get in?

5) Others?

I understand the idea of superscoring. But I am confused as to what tests colleges want. On many of our college visits, they seem to try and make clear that test scores mean less and less but they still seem to want them.

Any general advice or knowledge you have, please share. Thanks.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Some of the answers to these are going to depend on the school and how selective it is. Very broadly speaking, most schools will accept either the SAT or ACT. They're not the same thing, but schools mostly see them as interchangeable. She can probably take one or the other, and there's little reason to take both.

I've never heard of a school that cared about SAT subject tests. I'm sure such schools exist, but I don't know of any.

I don't think schools look at AP scores when they're considering admission. In a lot of cases, they simply can't -- it takes a while to get scores. In some cases, students are already registering for their first semester classes and we don't have scores from the test they took the previous semester. Schools absolutely do look favorably upon seeing AP classes on your daughter's transcript, but my experience is that they don't really even care if she bothered to take the test at all when it comes to admission and scholarship decisions. Again, this might vary by university.

 

[NewlyRetired]

thanks Ivan.

So what are the use of the SAT subject tests then? I don't want my daughter to be burdened with those if not needed since she will have the SAT and 3 AP tests all in a short period this May.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

thanks Ivan.

So what are the use of the SAT subject tests then? I don't want my daughter to be burdened with those if not needed since she will have the SAT and 3 AP tests all in a short period this May.

I truly don't know what purpose these tests serve or how anybody uses them. All I can say is that they're a complete non-factor at my institution, and I haven't seen any other universities so much as mention them (my son is also a junior, so we're at the same point as you and your daughter).

If she's looking at a school that encourages a subject test, you might ask one of their admissions people about it. They field those sorts of questions all the time, and they could give you a better school-specific answer than I can.

 

[Steve Tasker]

thanks Ivan.

So what are the use of the SAT subject tests then? I don't want my daughter to be burdened with those if not needed since she will have the SAT and 3 AP tests all in a short period this May.

Many moons ago when I was applying to colleges (12-13 years ago), the engineering schools I was applying to - RIT and RPI - recommended that you take at least the physics "SAT II". They were called SAT IIs back in the day. I have no idea if schools still look at those scores today, but they came highly recommended by both the admissions people at those schools and our guidance counselors. I don't know that it was a dealbreaker if you didn't, but I think it would help bolster your application if you took it and did well. I did take the physics SAT II, though I don't recall many of my friends or classmates taking any SAT IIs at all.

The other schools I applied to had engineering departments but were more broader-based and not heavily engineering/science schools. They didn't require the SAT IIs.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This appears to be yet another reason to try and get my daughter to focus on a general major. If we can narrow the major down, we could then start figuring out what schools to apply to and see what they might require.

I do feel bad though because I know she is hyper focused on just her current work (the 3 AP courses are a ton of work). Choosing a college and a major probably seem so far away but it does have a trickle down affect knowing she only wants a small school in NE, which limits the major choices.

 

[kentric]

My daughter is in the same boat (Jr in HS). She is going to be taking the ACT in April. Originally she had planned on taking the SAT but after discussing it with one of these SAT/ACT prep places, they said that there is some uncertainty as to how universities will view the new SAT format. They recommended we take the ACT. As Ivan indicated, it will be dependent on the school. Some focus on the SAT and some on the ACT.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It's been 25 years since I applied to college, but at that time most elite schools required three Achievement tests (now called SAT Subject tests) And admissions officers definitely received your AP scores if you took AP classes before your senior year.

You should be able to figure out the answers to these questions with 5 minutes of googling. Or just wait until Bruce Dickinson shows up, he knows everything about this stuff.

 

[NewlyRetired]

My daughter is in the same boat (Jr in HS). She is going to be taking the ACT in April. Originally she had planned on taking the SAT but after discussing it with one of these SAT/ACT prep places, they said that there is some uncertainty as to how universities will view the new SAT format. They recommended we take the ACT. As Ivan indicated, it will be dependent on the school. Some focus on the SAT and some on the ACT.

yeah, being the guinea pig class for the new SAT's is problematic. She did well on the pre SAT's though so I still think she will take the SATs.

Have you noticed on any college visits the schools making a point that they are deemphasizing the importance of the tests?

We had 2 schools tell us that through long studies, they have found test scores and how the child does in college to have the smallest correlation of the items they use to judge acceptance.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This link is helpful.

It shows a complete list of colleges that either require or recommend SAT Subject tests as of 2015

http://blog.prepscholar.com/complete-list-of-colleges-that-require-sat-subject-tests

It looks like many of the elite schools require them.

 

[kentric]

My daughter is in the same boat (Jr in HS). She is going to be taking the ACT in April. Originally she had planned on taking the SAT but after discussing it with one of these SAT/ACT prep places, they said that there is some uncertainty as to how universities will view the new SAT format. They recommended we take the ACT. As Ivan indicated, it will be dependent on the school. Some focus on the SAT and some on the ACT.

yeah, being the guinea pig class for the new SAT's is problematic. She did well on the pre SAT's though so I still think she will take the SATs.

Have you noticed on any college visits the schools making a point that they are deemphasizing the importance of the tests?

We had 2 schools tell us that through long studies, they have found test scores and how the child does in college to have the smallest correlation of the items they use to judge acceptance.

We haven't brought our daughter out yet (expect to in April during spring break). Did the two schools tell you what they focus on?

 

[NewlyRetired]

My daughter is in the same boat (Jr in HS). She is going to be taking the ACT in April. Originally she had planned on taking the SAT but after discussing it with one of these SAT/ACT prep places, they said that there is some uncertainty as to how universities will view the new SAT format. They recommended we take the ACT. As Ivan indicated, it will be dependent on the school. Some focus on the SAT and some on the ACT.

yeah, being the guinea pig class for the new SAT's is problematic. She did well on the pre SAT's though so I still think she will take the SATs.

Have you noticed on any college visits the schools making a point that they are deemphasizing the importance of the tests?

We had 2 schools tell us that through long studies, they have found test scores and how the child does in college to have the smallest correlation of the items they use to judge acceptance.

We haven't brought our daughter out yet (expect to in April during spring break). Did the two schools tell you what they focus on?

They still considered the tests of course but not as much as they used to.

They both said, pretty much every school we have visited has said the same thing, and that it is the grades combined with the level of course work the child is taking is the biggest factor in determining how they will do academically in college.

They also still considered the extra curricular activities quite a bit (this will hurt my daughter who is a top student, #1 or #2 in the class but has little to no extra stuff to add).

 

[glock]

thanks Ivan.

So what are the use of the SAT subject tests then? I don't want my daughter to be burdened with those if not needed since she will have the SAT and 3 AP tests all in a short period this May.

I truly don't know what purpose these tests serve or how anybody uses them. All I can say is that they're a complete non-factor at my institution, and I haven't seen any other universities so much as mention them (my son is also a junior, so we're at the same point as you and your daughter).

If she's looking at a school that encourages a subject test, you might ask one of their admissions people about it. They field those sorts of questions all the time, and they could give you a better school-specific answer than I can.

My son ran into some schools that required them.

 

[Buttonhook]

It seemed like a regional thing when I was applying (>20 years ago). Most of the west coast schools preferred the SAT while the Midwest and Eastern schools seemed to care more about the ACT. Looking at the current SAT list it looks like this hasn't changed much. Kind of interesting that Harvard is making a point to cut you a break if you can't afford to take the SAT test, I wonder if this is unique to just them.

 

[snogger]

In the same boat with you.. Daughter is a Junior in High School.. The School Counselor basically said what has been posted.. Take either the ACT or the SAT, no need to take both.. She's already taken a couple "pre-ACT" exams, as well as attended a "Crash Course" over 3 weeks on taking the exam.

She took two AP classes already.. Didn't pass the History AP test the first time, but plans to retake.. This semester she has 3 AP classes..

As far as College goes.. As I mentioned in many other threads ( sorry to ) she continues to push back on going to a "Full university"..

She has friends going to University's and has visited them, as well as other colleges when she is out for Forensics, and continues to tell us she just doesn't see that life as something she'd enjoy/like.

We've let her know that whatever Post High School education she chooses, be it University or Community/Technical College, we will fully support her.

But have also asked her to keep an open mind and we will have her apply to a few University's this summer, as well as scheduling visits to a few between now and then.

In the end they have to make the decision that is right for them..

 

[NewlyRetired]

She took two AP classes already.. Didn't pass the History AP test the first time, but plans to retake.. This semester she has 3 AP classes..

Did she take the history AP as a sophomore to have already taken the test and knowing her score? My daughter is taking history AP as a junior and the test will be this May.

I noticed you mentioned "semester". Our school does not seem to offer semester long AP courses. She is taking 3 AP's (history, lang, and bio) but all 3 are full year long courses with the AP test all scheduled in May.

 

[snogger]

She took two AP classes already.. Didn't pass the History AP test the first time, but plans to retake.. This semester she has 3 AP classes..

Did she take the history AP as a sophomore to have already taken the test and knowing her score? My daughter is taking history AP as a junior and the test will be this May.

I noticed you mentioned "semester". Our school does not seem to offer semester long AP courses. She is taking 3 AP's (history, lang, and bio) but all 3 are full year long courses with the AP test all scheduled in May.

Yes on both parts.., she took AP History as a Sophomore as well as another AP class that I can't for the life of me remember now ..

I mentioned "Semesters" as they just completed Semester one, but they are "year long" AP classes..

She also had taken Spanish classes since 8th grade but was getting overwhelmed with that plus the 3 AP classes so dropped Spanish now.. She has plenty of "credits" for that now to qualify for University's so no need to continue on if she lost interest like she did..

She's still trying to decide which AP tests she wants to take.. They are NOT easy tests, and each one costs so if she doesn't feel confident in taking them, there is no reason to just throw the money away until she is ready..

 

[NewlyRetired]

She took two AP classes already.. Didn't pass the History AP test the first time, but plans to retake.. This semester she has 3 AP classes..

Did she take the history AP as a sophomore to have already taken the test and knowing her score? My daughter is taking history AP as a junior and the test will be this May.

I noticed you mentioned "semester". Our school does not seem to offer semester long AP courses. She is taking 3 AP's (history, lang, and bio) but all 3 are full year long courses with the AP test all scheduled in May.

Yes on both parts.., she took AP History as a Sophomore as well as another AP class that I can't for the life of me remember now ..

I mentioned "Semesters" as they just completed Semester one, but they are "year long" AP classes..

She also had taken Spanish classes since 8th grade but was getting overwhelmed with that plus the 3 AP classes so dropped Spanish now.. She has plenty of "credits" for that now to qualify for University's so no need to continue on if she lost interest like she did..

She's still trying to decide which AP tests she wants to take.. They are NOT easy tests, and each one costs so if she doesn't feel confident in taking them, there is no reason to just throw the money away until she is ready..

I saw they cost like $90 each.

My school has a requirement that states if you are admitted to an AP class, that you MUST take the AP test at the end (they even bold and capitalize "must" like I did in the handbook). I do not know what the consequence of not taking the test would be but I guess they could affect your final grade in said AP class.

It is good that your school does not have that requirement allowing the kids to take which tests they feel comfortable in.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

This link is helpful.

It shows a complete list of colleges that either require or recommend SAT Subject tests as of 2015

http://blog.prepscholar.com/complete-list-of-colleges-that-require-sat-subject-tests

It looks like many of the elite schools require them.

But it also seems that a hefty sprinkling of them will accept the ACT (with Writing) in lieu of the SAT + SAT subject tests. Makes the ACT more attractive, no?

Thanks for starting this thread, by the way. I have a Jr. daughter as well.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

She took two AP classes already.. Didn't pass the History AP test the first time, but plans to retake.. This semester she has 3 AP classes..

Did she take the history AP as a sophomore to have already taken the test and knowing her score? My daughter is taking history AP as a junior and the test will be this May.

I noticed you mentioned "semester". Our school does not seem to offer semester long AP courses. She is taking 3 AP's (history, lang, and bio) but all 3 are full year long courses with the AP test all scheduled in May.

Yes on both parts.., she took AP History as a Sophomore as well as another AP class that I can't for the life of me remember now ..

I mentioned "Semesters" as they just completed Semester one, but they are "year long" AP classes..

She also had taken Spanish classes since 8th grade but was getting overwhelmed with that plus the 3 AP classes so dropped Spanish now.. She has plenty of "credits" for that now to qualify for University's so no need to continue on if she lost interest like she did..

She's still trying to decide which AP tests she wants to take.. They are NOT easy tests, and each one costs so if she doesn't feel confident in taking them, there is no reason to just throw the money away until she is ready..

I saw they cost like $90 each.

My school has a requirement that states if you are admitted to an AP class, that you MUST take the AP test at the end (they even bold and capitalize "must" like I did in the handbook). I do not know what the consequence of not taking the test would be but I guess they could affect your final grade in said AP class.

It is good that your school does not have that requirement allowing the kids to take which tests they feel comfortable in.

At my kid's high school, the AP test score has nothing to do with the class grade.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This link is helpful.

It shows a complete list of colleges that either require or recommend SAT Subject tests as of 2015

http://blog.prepscholar.com/complete-list-of-colleges-that-require-sat-subject-tests

It looks like many of the elite schools require them.

But it also seems that a hefty sprinkling of them will accept the ACT (with Writing) in lieu of the SAT + SAT subject tests. Makes the ACT more attractive, no?

Thanks for starting this thread, by the way. I have a Jr. daughter as well.

if you notice too, there are some strong schools on that list like Bowdoin, Holy Cross etc that make all test submissions (including SAT/ACT etc) optional.

I wonder how the really treat the kids who don't send in test scores vs the ones that do in terms of acceptance?

 

[NewlyRetired]

She took two AP classes already.. Didn't pass the History AP test the first time, but plans to retake.. This semester she has 3 AP classes..

Did she take the history AP as a sophomore to have already taken the test and knowing her score? My daughter is taking history AP as a junior and the test will be this May.

I noticed you mentioned "semester". Our school does not seem to offer semester long AP courses. She is taking 3 AP's (history, lang, and bio) but all 3 are full year long courses with the AP test all scheduled in May.

Yes on both parts.., she took AP History as a Sophomore as well as another AP class that I can't for the life of me remember now ..

I mentioned "Semesters" as they just completed Semester one, but they are "year long" AP classes..

She also had taken Spanish classes since 8th grade but was getting overwhelmed with that plus the 3 AP classes so dropped Spanish now.. She has plenty of "credits" for that now to qualify for University's so no need to continue on if she lost interest like she did..

She's still trying to decide which AP tests she wants to take.. They are NOT easy tests, and each one costs so if she doesn't feel confident in taking them, there is no reason to just throw the money away until she is ready..

I saw they cost like $90 each.

My school has a requirement that states if you are admitted to an AP class, that you MUST take the AP test at the end (they even bold and capitalize "must" like I did in the handbook). I do not know what the consequence of not taking the test would be but I guess they could affect your final grade in said AP class.

It is good that your school does not have that requirement allowing the kids to take which tests they feel comfortable in.

At my kid's high school, the AP test score has nothing to do with the class grade.

My kid's school does not either.

What I was trying to say was that they must have some sort of punishment (since the test is required for anyone taking the AP class) for the kids who decide to skip the AP test and maybe that punishment is in affecting their final grade in the AP course.

 

[snogger]

She took two AP classes already.. Didn't pass the History AP test the first time, but plans to retake.. This semester she has 3 AP classes..

Did she take the history AP as a sophomore to have already taken the test and knowing her score? My daughter is taking history AP as a junior and the test will be this May.

I noticed you mentioned "semester". Our school does not seem to offer semester long AP courses. She is taking 3 AP's (history, lang, and bio) but all 3 are full year long courses with the AP test all scheduled in May.

Yes on both parts.., she took AP History as a Sophomore as well as another AP class that I can't for the life of me remember now ..

I mentioned "Semesters" as they just completed Semester one, but they are "year long" AP classes..

She also had taken Spanish classes since 8th grade but was getting overwhelmed with that plus the 3 AP classes so dropped Spanish now.. She has plenty of "credits" for that now to qualify for University's so no need to continue on if she lost interest like she did..

She's still trying to decide which AP tests she wants to take.. They are NOT easy tests, and each one costs so if she doesn't feel confident in taking them, there is no reason to just throw the money away until she is ready..

I saw they cost like $90 each.

My school has a requirement that states if you are admitted to an AP class, that you MUST take the AP test at the end (they even bold and capitalize "must" like I did in the handbook). I do not know what the consequence of not taking the test would be but I guess they could affect your final grade in said AP class.

It is good that your school does not have that requirement allowing the kids to take which tests they feel comfortable in.

At my kid's high school, the AP test score has nothing to do with the class grade.

They get their final grade based on what they did in the classroom..

The AP test is "just" for getting credit(s) that could be transferred to a college when the time comes. Completely up to the student/parents.. Thank god there is no "Required to take the test" as they have enough on their plates just taking the classes while others just take the "normal" High school classes.

The fact she is taking 3 AP classes and is still carrying a 3.5 GPA after the 1st semester of her Junior year is amazing to my wife and I..

We both just took the "normal" classes in High School and were both just happy to pass... I recall one day coming home as a Senior with mainly C's and D's and my Mom saying.. well, at least you passed..

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

My daughter is a junior and I am trying to get a handle on the various tests needed for college.

1) SAT : These have been changed again and are now back to a 1600 scale

2) ACT : If daughter takes SAT is this needed?

3) SAT Subject tests: Are these what were called Achievement tests in my day?

4) AP tests : Do colleges look at these results for acceptance or are they only used for credit purposes after you get in?

5) Others?

I understand the idea of superscoring. But I am confused as to what tests colleges want. On many of our college visits, they seem to try and make clear that test scores mean less and less but they still seem to want them.

Any general advice or knowledge you have, please share. Thanks.

1) New SAT rolls out this spring. The big change is the essay is no longer required, but the time to complete it has doubled if you choose the With Writing option.

2) No college requires both the ACT and SAT. I recommend focusing on one or the other. My professional experience prepping students for these tests is the ACT is a bit more predictable and easier to prepare for. However, if the student is a bit more of an abstract thinker, uses words like "alacrity" in sentences correctly, or competed beyond school level in spelling bees, the SAT is probably the better option.

3) The SAT Subject Tests are the old "SAT Achievement" or "SAT II" tests. Few colleges require them. About half who do only require them as a supplement to the general SAT. So if you go the ACT route, you can probably bypass the SAT Subject Tests altogether. The colleges who require SAT Subject Tests no matter what are primarily using them to measure the quality of an engineering or computer science candidate. So if the student doesn't know what they want to major in, there's probably a route to admission without taking these tests at all. If you must take a couple Subject Tests, DO NOT choose foreign language ones like Spanish or French. A large enough pool of those test takers are native speakers of the language and will make the percentile ladder impossibly hard to climb.

4) AP Test scores are not supposed to be a factor in admission. Colleges might peek at scores taken sophomore or junior year, especially if the student is at a high school with a rep for grade inflation - some high schools give As to pretty much every kid in AP Whatever, so it's unknown if the student actually learned anything until the AP test scores come in. If anything, it's a red flag if a student took the AP course but did not take the AP exam, but I'll let someone on the admissions side speak to that a bit more.

5) Look into programs like CLEP and CollegeNow. CLEP tests are an opportunity to demonstrate mastery of subjects where an AP course might not be offered at the school. CollegeNow and other similarly-named programs allow for students taking college-level material in high school to be dual enrolled in the course at the high school and a local college, a nice way to knock out some introductory courses at a much lower price.

 

[Buttonhook]

She took two AP classes already.. Didn't pass the History AP test the first time, but plans to retake.. This semester she has 3 AP classes..

Did she take the history AP as a sophomore to have already taken the test and knowing her score? My daughter is taking history AP as a junior and the test will be this May.

I noticed you mentioned "semester". Our school does not seem to offer semester long AP courses. She is taking 3 AP's (history, lang, and bio) but all 3 are full year long courses with the AP test all scheduled in May.

Yes on both parts.., she took AP History as a Sophomore as well as another AP class that I can't for the life of me remember now ..

I mentioned "Semesters" as they just completed Semester one, but they are "year long" AP classes..

She also had taken Spanish classes since 8th grade but was getting overwhelmed with that plus the 3 AP classes so dropped Spanish now.. She has plenty of "credits" for that now to qualify for University's so no need to continue on if she lost interest like she did..

She's still trying to decide which AP tests she wants to take.. They are NOT easy tests, and each one costs so if she doesn't feel confident in taking them, there is no reason to just throw the money away until she is ready..

I saw they cost like $90 each.

My school has a requirement that states if you are admitted to an AP class, that you MUST take the AP test at the end (they even bold and capitalize "must" like I did in the handbook). I do not know what the consequence of not taking the test would be but I guess they could affect your final grade in said AP class.

It is good that your school does not have that requirement allowing the kids to take which tests they feel comfortable in.

At my kid's high school, the AP test score has nothing to do with the class grade.

My kid's school does not either.

What I was trying to say was that they must have some sort of punishment (since the test is required for anyone taking the AP class) for the kids who decide to skip the AP test and maybe that punishment is in affecting their final grade in the AP course.

I would imagine that if you don't pass the AP test you don't get the college credits?

 

[NewlyRetired]

She took two AP classes already.. Didn't pass the History AP test the first time, but plans to retake.. This semester she has 3 AP classes..

Did she take the history AP as a sophomore to have already taken the test and knowing her score? My daughter is taking history AP as a junior and the test will be this May.

I noticed you mentioned "semester". Our school does not seem to offer semester long AP courses. She is taking 3 AP's (history, lang, and bio) but all 3 are full year long courses with the AP test all scheduled in May.

Yes on both parts.., she took AP History as a Sophomore as well as another AP class that I can't for the life of me remember now ..

I mentioned "Semesters" as they just completed Semester one, but they are "year long" AP classes..

She also had taken Spanish classes since 8th grade but was getting overwhelmed with that plus the 3 AP classes so dropped Spanish now.. She has plenty of "credits" for that now to qualify for University's so no need to continue on if she lost interest like she did..

She's still trying to decide which AP tests she wants to take.. They are NOT easy tests, and each one costs so if she doesn't feel confident in taking them, there is no reason to just throw the money away until she is ready..

I saw they cost like $90 each.

My school has a requirement that states if you are admitted to an AP class, that you MUST take the AP test at the end (they even bold and capitalize "must" like I did in the handbook). I do not know what the consequence of not taking the test would be but I guess they could affect your final grade in said AP class.

It is good that your school does not have that requirement allowing the kids to take which tests they feel comfortable in.

At my kid's high school, the AP test score has nothing to do with the class grade.

My kid's school does not either.

What I was trying to say was that they must have some sort of punishment (since the test is required for anyone taking the AP class) for the kids who decide to skip the AP test and maybe that punishment is in affecting their final grade in the AP course.

I would imagine that if you don't pass the AP test you don't get the college credits?

I am not making myself clear I guess. No biggie.

But to your question, yes, each college has their own requirement to what the AP test score needs to be to accept college credit. (3 or better, 4 or better, etc)

 

[NewlyRetired]

4) AP Test scores are not supposed to be a factor in admission. Colleges might peek at scores taken sophomore or junior year, especially if the student is at a high school with a rep for grade inflation - some high schools give As to pretty much every kid in AP Whatever, so it's unknown if the student actually learned anything until the AP test scores come in. If anything, it's a red flag if a student took the AP course but did not take the AP exam, but I'll let someone on the admissions side speak to that a bit more..

I have heard about grade inflation. I would love to see which colleges consider which high schools to be practicing this.

Do the AP test scores (if available at the time of submission) go onto the Common App?

 

[kentric]

This link is helpful.

It shows a complete list of colleges that either require or recommend SAT Subject tests as of 2015

http://blog.prepscholar.com/complete-list-of-colleges-that-require-sat-subject-tests

It looks like many of the elite schools require them.

But it also seems that a hefty sprinkling of them will accept the ACT (with Writing) in lieu of the SAT + SAT subject tests. Makes the ACT more attractive, no?

Thanks for starting this thread, by the way. I have a Jr. daughter as well.

if you notice too, there are some strong schools on that list like Bowdoin, Holy Cross etc that make all test submissions (including SAT/ACT etc) optional.

I wonder how the really treat the kids who don't send in test scores vs the ones that do in terms of acceptance?

That is one of the schools I plan on taking my Jr. daughter to. Reading through their website on the admissions process, it seems like the optionality of the SAT/ACT is legit there.

 

[NewlyRetired]

1) New SAT rolls out this spring. The big change is the essay is no longer required, but the time to complete it has doubled if you choose the With Writing option.

would you recommend using the With Writing option when taking the SAT's? Since these are brand new, I don't have any idea what colleges expect now.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

My kid's school does not either.

What I was trying to say was that they must have some sort of punishment (since the test is required for anyone taking the AP class) for the kids who decide to skip the AP test and maybe that punishment is in affecting their final grade in the AP course

I would imagine that if you don't pass the AP test you don't get the college credits?

The real reason some high schools require all AP students to all take the AP exams is the ratio of AP tests taken per student enrolled at the school is a big factor in published high school rankings. In one of the national magazine rankings, it's the ONLY factor. That's why some schools have a policy requiring students to take the AP exams.A 4 or 5 on an AP exam should translate into automatic college credit. Some schools cap the number of credit hours awarded through AP exams, a few might exempt a required course but not count the credit hours. Some schools accept 3s as a passing grade and award credit hours/exemptions.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This link is helpful.

It shows a complete list of colleges that either require or recommend SAT Subject tests as of 2015

http://blog.prepscholar.com/complete-list-of-colleges-that-require-sat-subject-tests

It looks like many of the elite schools require them.

But it also seems that a hefty sprinkling of them will accept the ACT (with Writing) in lieu of the SAT + SAT subject tests. Makes the ACT more attractive, no?

Thanks for starting this thread, by the way. I have a Jr. daughter as well.

if you notice too, there are some strong schools on that list like Bowdoin, Holy Cross etc that make all test submissions (including SAT/ACT etc) optional.

I wonder how the really treat the kids who don't send in test scores vs the ones that do in terms of acceptance?

That is one of the schools I plan on taking my Jr. daughter to. Reading through their website on the admissions process, it seems like the optionality of the SAT/ACT is legit there.

which school, Bowdoin or Holy Cross? Both are really nice.

I still don't get how it can be optional though. They have to have some measurement for how the classify the kids who do send in the scores vs the kids who don't.

It would make more sense in my mind if they either required the scores or asked no one to send them in.

I guess maybe they must treat the test scores now like the do extra activities in that they will be different for each child.

 

[NewlyRetired]

My kid's school does not either.

What I was trying to say was that they must have some sort of punishment (since the test is required for anyone taking the AP class) for the kids who decide to skip the AP test and maybe that punishment is in affecting their final grade in the AP course

I would imagine that if you don't pass the AP test you don't get the college credits?

The real reason some high schools require all AP students to all take the AP exams is the ratio of AP tests taken per student enrolled at the school is a big factor in published high school rankings. In one of the national magazine rankings, it's the ONLY factor. That's why some schools have a policy requiring students to take the AP exams.

this makes sense. I know my school in recent years has been listed in these rankings where as before they were not. That must be related to what you stated above.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

This link is helpful.

It shows a complete list of colleges that either require or recommend SAT Subject tests as of 2015

http://blog.prepscholar.com/complete-list-of-colleges-that-require-sat-subject-tests

It looks like many of the elite schools require them.

But it also seems that a hefty sprinkling of them will accept the ACT (with Writing) in lieu of the SAT + SAT subject tests. Makes the ACT more attractive, no?

Thanks for starting this thread, by the way. I have a Jr. daughter as well.

if you notice too, there are some strong schools on that list like Bowdoin, Holy Cross etc that make all test submissions (including SAT/ACT etc) optional.

I wonder how the really treat the kids who don't send in test scores vs the ones that do in terms of acceptance?

That is one of the schools I plan on taking my Jr. daughter to. Reading through their website on the admissions process, it seems like the optionality of the SAT/ACT is legit there.

It's legit. If they dropped it as a requirement, they dropped it for reasons they thought through for years. Now that people like me have proven these tests can be coached up, they have become less of a predictor of college success. Sometimes a difference in SAT/ACT score had nothing to do with the kid's intelligence, but the home life. Some families have a extra $1000-$2000 to hire a test prep professional, and can accommodate the extra hours needed to prep. Some families don't.

 

[chet]

I just hired an academic advisor to work with my daughter. We are very early in the process but one thing he said is that almost all colleges will accept either the SAT or the ACT--you don't need both. He also said that about 1/3 of students will do better on the SAT, 1/3 will do better on the ACT and 1/3 will do about the same. Therefore it's obviously important to figure out which 1/3 your child falls into.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

1) New SAT rolls out this spring. The big change is the essay is no longer required, but the time to complete it has doubled if you choose the With Writing option.

would you recommend using the With Writing option when taking the SAT's? Since these are brand new, I don't have any idea what colleges expect now.

IMO, the optional essays on the SAT and ACT are a waste of time. I don't trust their essay grading systems or the consistency of their essay grading processes. I'd go without it for now. If you discover this summer that a college high on your kid's list requires it, then retake the exam in the fall.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

My daughter is in the same boat (Jr in HS). She is going to be taking the ACT in April. Originally she had planned on taking the SAT but after discussing it with one of these SAT/ACT prep places, they said that there is some uncertainty as to how universities will view the new SAT format. They recommended we take the ACT. As Ivan indicated, it will be dependent on the school. Some focus on the SAT and some on the ACT.

yeah, being the guinea pig class for the new SAT's is problematic. She did well on the pre SAT's though so I still think she will take the SATs.

Have you noticed on any college visits the schools making a point that they are deemphasizing the importance of the tests?

We had 2 schools tell us that through long studies, they have found test scores and how the child does in college to have the smallest correlation of the items they use to judge acceptance.

We haven't brought our daughter out yet (expect to in April during spring break). Did the two schools tell you what they focus on?

They still considered the tests of course but not as much as they used to.

They both said, pretty much every school we have visited has said the same thing, and that it is the grades combined with the level of course work the child is taking is the biggest factor in determining how they will do academically in college.

They also still considered the extra curricular activities quite a bit (this will hurt my daughter who is a top student, #1 or #2 in the class but has little to no extra stuff to add).

NR, not to hijack but I'm thinking you've got to fluff up your daughter's resume with some extra curriculars. Otherwise, colleges will expect her GPA to be high as she devoted all her time to it, no? Plus, there's the "well rounded" argument that may or may not be important. Maybe BD can address that.

She could join a team that doesn't cut if she's not too athletic, etc. As far as outside activities go, it might look shaky if she all of a sudden just starting volunteering at some charity, etc. As if she were only doing it for the padding. However, if she volunteered at a political campaign it might look more believable. Like she caught the fever with all the recent news/publicity and she got swept up in it. She doesn't have to account for her non-involvement in it during her first 2 1/2 high school years. Just one idea.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

I know of at least one straight-A, 1600-SAT student who didn't get admitted to their first choice school. The student went to school, did all their homework, and spent most of the free time playing World Of Warcraft. My suspicion is the college thought the student would go to class every day, then sequester in the dorm room to do homework and play World Of Warcraft. Might say that's unfair, but elite colleges look at what a potential student might offer to the campus community.

If you feel the student's extra curricular activity list is a bit lean... have the student start something. Maybe it's an afterschool club. Maybe it's a public service activity. Maybe it's a business. But find a need and fill it by starting something yourself. "Founder of Intramural Muggle Quiddich League" is IMO much more impressive than "3-time Sargeant-At-Arms, Latin Club".

And when it's time to visit and interview at colleges, be prepared to explain how and why you started that club in about 60 seconds. Be passionate, be informative, but also get to the point.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

I know of at least one straight-A, 1600-SAT student who didn't get admitted to their first choice school. The student went to school, did all their homework, and spent most of the free time playing World Of Warcraft. My suspicion is the college though the student would go to class every day, then sequester in the dorm room to do homework and play World Of Warcraft. Might say that's unfair, but elite colleges look at what a potential student might offer to the campus community.

If you feel the student's extra curricular activity list is a bit lean... have the student start something. Maybe it's an afterschool club. Maybe it's a public service activity. Maybe it's a business. But find a need and fill it by starting something yourself. "Founder of Intramural Muggle Quiddich League" is IMO much more impressive than "3-time Sargeant-At-Arms, Latin Club". And when it's time to visit and interview at colleges, be prepared to explain how and why you started that club in about 60 seconds.

BD, it won't look a little sketchy that all of sudden a student has started such a club, etc. just when his college search has begun in earnest?

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

It's better than the blank slate alternative.

It's also MUCH better than suddenly joining several clubs or activities without a leadership role.

This is where the "explain how and why" part is key. Even get out in front of the objection. "I felt like all I was doing was going to school, doing homework, Netflix and chilling... so my parent/teacher challenged me to branch out, and here's what I came up with..."

 

[NewlyRetired]

My daughter is in the same boat (Jr in HS). She is going to be taking the ACT in April. Originally she had planned on taking the SAT but after discussing it with one of these SAT/ACT prep places, they said that there is some uncertainty as to how universities will view the new SAT format. They recommended we take the ACT. As Ivan indicated, it will be dependent on the school. Some focus on the SAT and some on the ACT.

yeah, being the guinea pig class for the new SAT's is problematic. She did well on the pre SAT's though so I still think she will take the SATs.

Have you noticed on any college visits the schools making a point that they are deemphasizing the importance of the tests?

We had 2 schools tell us that through long studies, they have found test scores and how the child does in college to have the smallest correlation of the items they use to judge acceptance.

We haven't brought our daughter out yet (expect to in April during spring break). Did the two schools tell you what they focus on?

They still considered the tests of course but not as much as they used to.

They both said, pretty much every school we have visited has said the same thing, and that it is the grades combined with the level of course work the child is taking is the biggest factor in determining how they will do academically in college.

They also still considered the extra curricular activities quite a bit (this will hurt my daughter who is a top student, #1 or #2 in the class but has little to no extra stuff to add).

NR, not to hijack but I'm thinking you've got to fluff up your daughter's resume with some extra curriculars. Otherwise, colleges will expect her GPA to be high as she devoted all her time to it, no? Plus, there's the "well rounded" argument that may or may not be important. Maybe BD can address that.

She could join a team that doesn't cut if she's not too athletic, etc. As far as outside activities go, it might look shaky if she all of a sudden just starting volunteering at some charity, etc. As if she were only doing it for the padding. However, if she volunteered at a political campaign it might look more believable. Like she caught the fever with all the recent news/publicity and she got swept up in it. She doesn't have to account for her non-involvement in it during her first 2 1/2 high school years. Just one idea.

We have known this for some time so we have a few things that she has done since freshman year, that can probably be made to look shinier than they really are. I don't want to over do it though because it would present a false image of my daughter. She is an academic person. In any free time she has, she writes, reads and draws.

She does ton of work on fanfiction.com where she not only writes a lot but is also a sought after editor so I am trying to understand how to portray that to the colleges since that is her hobby much like another kids might be a sport or music. If she goes into a writing/editing type program this would fit nicely I think.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

My daughter is in the same boat (Jr in HS). She is going to be taking the ACT in April. Originally she had planned on taking the SAT but after discussing it with one of these SAT/ACT prep places, they said that there is some uncertainty as to how universities will view the new SAT format. They recommended we take the ACT. As Ivan indicated, it will be dependent on the school. Some focus on the SAT and some on the ACT.

yeah, being the guinea pig class for the new SAT's is problematic. She did well on the pre SAT's though so I still think she will take the SATs.

Have you noticed on any college visits the schools making a point that they are deemphasizing the importance of the tests?

We had 2 schools tell us that through long studies, they have found test scores and how the child does in college to have the smallest correlation of the items they use to judge acceptance.

We haven't brought our daughter out yet (expect to in April during spring break). Did the two schools tell you what they focus on?

They still considered the tests of course but not as much as they used to.

They both said, pretty much every school we have visited has said the same thing, and that it is the grades combined with the level of course work the child is taking is the biggest factor in determining how they will do academically in college.

They also still considered the extra curricular activities quite a bit (this will hurt my daughter who is a top student, #1 or #2 in the class but has little to no extra stuff to add).

NR, not to hijack but I'm thinking you've got to fluff up your daughter's resume with some extra curriculars. Otherwise, colleges will expect her GPA to be high as she devoted all her time to it, no? Plus, there's the "well rounded" argument that may or may not be important. Maybe BD can address that.

She could join a team that doesn't cut if she's not too athletic, etc. As far as outside activities go, it might look shaky if she all of a sudden just starting volunteering at some charity, etc. As if she were only doing it for the padding. However, if she volunteered at a political campaign it might look more believable. Like she caught the fever with all the recent news/publicity and she got swept up in it. She doesn't have to account for her non-involvement in it during her first 2 1/2 high school years. Just one idea.

We have known this for some time so we have a few things that she has done since freshman year, that can probably be made to look shinier than they really are. I don't want to over do it though because it would present a false image of my daughter. She is an academic person. In any free time she has, she writes, reads and draws.

She does ton of work on fanfiction.com where she not only writes a lot but is also a sought after editor so I am trying to understand how to portray that to the colleges since that is her hobby much like another kids might be a sport or music.

Include some hot slashfic.

Pretty sure colleges are familiar with the phenomenon of fan fiction.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

I gotta run. Enjoyed the discussion. I'll try to check in from time to time. I tried to answer general stuff as well as I could, but there are exceptions to just about everything.

 

[The_Man]

There's another thread on college admissions which is pretty good, but it's fine if people want to just keep going with this one. I'm neck deep in the process right now, with my son who's a senior. He's aiming for some highly selective schools, so my experience is based on that but I have some insight I can offer.

1. Take both the ACT and SAT. As mentioned above, some kids do better on one, some on the other. But it's impossible to know which one until they take it (or until they do a full diagnostic with a test prep company). I would suggest kids take both before the end of their junior year, then focus on the one they're better at and retake it fall of senior year. BUT -- SAT is all-new, and supposed to be much more like the ACT. A lot of people are counseling not to take it this spring, and be a guinea pig in the new cohort. However, I would still have them take it, to set up a baseline.

2. SAT IIs - also known as Subject tests, same as the old Achievement Tests. These are really only needed at the highly selective schools, or sometimes for engineering schools, to show mastery of math and science. Don't take any of the Foreign Language tests - international kids take these in their native tongue and destroy the grading scale. If your kid is taking an AP class, it's a great idea to take the SAT II in that subject shortly after they take their AP exam. It's a great way to do test prep, and both the AP and the SAT are created by the College Board, so there's a lot of overlap.

3. Test Optional - more and more schools are going this way. This is best for kids who have high grades and strong recommendations, but not the highest test scores.

4. Extra-Curriculars - Don't believe all the hype on this. For many, many schools, admissions is all about the academic. For every school in the world, the Transcript and the difficulty of courses taken are the most important admissions criterion (followed by recommendations, test scores and essays). Your kid is much, much better off not spending time on some BS activity if doing that activity keeps them from making top grades in challenging classes. If they can make top grades and do something else, go for quality over quantity. Achieve leadership in one or two activities, optimally ones that tie into your academic interests, or your summer job, or your volunteer work. More and more applications are limiting the number of slots for extracurricular activities because they know kids are just piling on meaningless things.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

My daughter is in the same boat (Jr in HS). She is going to be taking the ACT in April. Originally she had planned on taking the SAT but after discussing it with one of these SAT/ACT prep places, they said that there is some uncertainty as to how universities will view the new SAT format. They recommended we take the ACT. As Ivan indicated, it will be dependent on the school. Some focus on the SAT and some on the ACT.

yeah, being the guinea pig class for the new SAT's is problematic. She did well on the pre SAT's though so I still think she will take the SATs.

Have you noticed on any college visits the schools making a point that they are deemphasizing the importance of the tests?

We had 2 schools tell us that through long studies, they have found test scores and how the child does in college to have the smallest correlation of the items they use to judge acceptance.

We haven't brought our daughter out yet (expect to in April during spring break). Did the two schools tell you what they focus on?

They still considered the tests of course but not as much as they used to.

They both said, pretty much every school we have visited has said the same thing, and that it is the grades combined with the level of course work the child is taking is the biggest factor in determining how they will do academically in college.

They also still considered the extra curricular activities quite a bit (this will hurt my daughter who is a top student, #1 or #2 in the class but has little to no extra stuff to add).

NR, not to hijack but I'm thinking you've got to fluff up your daughter's resume with some extra curriculars. Otherwise, colleges will expect her GPA to be high as she devoted all her time to it, no? Plus, there's the "well rounded" argument that may or may not be important. Maybe BD can address that.

She could join a team that doesn't cut if she's not too athletic, etc. As far as outside activities go, it might look shaky if she all of a sudden just starting volunteering at some charity, etc. As if she were only doing it for the padding. However, if she volunteered at a political campaign it might look more believable. Like she caught the fever with all the recent news/publicity and she got swept up in it. She doesn't have to account for her non-involvement in it during her first 2 1/2 high school years. Just one idea.

We have known this for some time so we have a few things that she has done since freshman year, that can probably be made to look shinier than they really are. I don't want to over do it though because it would present a false image of my daughter. She is an academic person. In any free time she has, she writes, reads and draws.

She does ton of work on fanfiction.com where she not only writes a lot but is also a sought after editor so I am trying to understand how to portray that to the colleges since that is her hobby much like another kids might be a sport or music. If she goes into a writing/editing type program this would fit nicely I think.

 

[kentric]

This link is helpful.

It shows a complete list of colleges that either require or recommend SAT Subject tests as of 2015

http://blog.prepscholar.com/complete-list-of-colleges-that-require-sat-subject-tests

It looks like many of the elite schools require them.

But it also seems that a hefty sprinkling of them will accept the ACT (with Writing) in lieu of the SAT + SAT subject tests. Makes the ACT more attractive, no?

Thanks for starting this thread, by the way. I have a Jr. daughter as well.

if you notice too, there are some strong schools on that list like Bowdoin, Holy Cross etc that make all test submissions (including SAT/ACT etc) optional.

I wonder how the really treat the kids who don't send in test scores vs the ones that do in terms of acceptance?

That is one of the schools I plan on taking my Jr. daughter to. Reading through their website on the admissions process, it seems like the optionality of the SAT/ACT is legit there.

which school, Bowdoin or Holy Cross? Both are really nice.

I still don't get how it can be optional though. They have to have some measurement for how the classify the kids who do send in the scores vs the kids who don't.

It would make more sense in my mind if they either required the scores or asked no one to send them in.

I guess maybe they must treat the test scores now like the do extra activities in that they will be different for each child.

Sorry. Was talking about Bowdoin.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Back when I applied to schools in the mid 80's I seem to remember having an interview process with schools I applied to.

Does that still exist today?

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Yes. Depending on size and location of school, an interview can take place on campus during a visit, by an admissions counselor on tour in your area, or by a local alumnus who handles applicant interviews in your area.

Not all schools require it, but I recommend it if you can arrange one.

 

[Instinctive]

Yes. Depending on size and location of school, an interview can take place on campus during a visit, by an admissions counselor on tour in your area, or by a local alumnus who handles applicant interviews in your area.

Not all schools require it, but I recommend it if you can arrange one.

Be careful though, also. I'm in a place now where I hear a lot of stories from the alums that do these interviews, and they can be super fickle. The best interview is (like most dinner conversation) likely the one where you say a few interesting things and get the alum to talk about himself or herself a lot.

Ex: This weekend had one who does them for Stanford say it was interview season and the last one, the only feedback he really had for admissions was that the person was "just boring, not sure why they bothered applying."

So watch out for that. I had interviews with each of the colleges I applied to when I applied (OU was just for the Honors College). They are especially more common when you're a candidate for large scholarship packages - which the ACT/SAT often end up as a large determining factor for.

 

[Marvelous]

As you all noted, schools are deemphasizing the SATs and ACTs. I read somewhere that the test scores were much better predictor of the parents' income than future academic success.

We visited George Mason University last week with my daughter who is a junior. Submitting test scores are optional if you GPA is over 3.5. But test scores can help you get merit scholarship money.

My daughter has a high GPA (3.85), but has really bad test scores (760 equivalent) from the PSAT. I am hoping we can get her up to a 900 or 1000.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice on an issue my junior year daughter is facing. 

First some background

* She is 1 of only 2 children in the school system who are taking 3 AP courses at the same time

* She is 1 of only 6 kids in her class that have made the high honor roll each quarter (and the only child with 3 AP courses as the other student has not made high honors)

* My school does not give out class rank but I figure knowing the above (class rank is based on weighted GPA where AP courses are the highest weight), I would place her no lower than #3 or so in the class as a rough estimate.

* She has killed herself this year to make her grades.  It is by far too much imo and I stress doing a lot of homework.  Even on a Friday afternoon the first thing she does when she gets home from school is start working and does not stop.  It has made her a little sad and a lot stressed out.

* As such, knowing that senior year has its own added work and stress with college essays and the common app, she wants to dial back a bit on the school work

* Last week, a teacher asked her to be a TA as part of work study program next year. She would help tutor younger kids and grade papers and general TA type help for this teacher in the different classes he teaches.

* She is excited about the work study and decided to drop Spanish to fit it in to her schedule.  She will still be taking 2 AP courses next year and wants to add an art class that she thinks she would enjoy.

* She met with her guidance counselor who promptly made her feel bad about her choices.   The counselor told her colleges are going to think it is VERY bad that she is taking an easier course load senior year and that it will affect her ability to get into a good college.

I am not expecting my daughter to be able to get into an Ivy League school (I still have no idea how her SAT testing will go) but I have always assumed she would have a decent chance at a school at the next level.  Knowing how stressed she has been this year, I want her to continue what she has planned but is the counselor right? Is she significantly harming her ability to get into a good school?