Collusion in the NFL? (1 Viewer)

[mad sweeney]

While I would agree that mad sweeney's posting history merits the label patriots basher, I tend to think the "communication" that is alluded to above is communication at or near the end of the game, and nothing more. You can make the argument that an end-of-game agreement like this technically meets the definition of collusion, but then you would be bringing yourself down to the level of sweeney and phlegmboy and the rest of the asterisk-posting weenies who feel compelled to run around with their panties in a wad crying "cheater, cheater, cheater!"

This is a non-story, just like the Jets videotaping was a non-story.

Wow, talk about not letting facts get in the way of the truth! I have never, ever applied an asterisk to this season and have repeatedly said that the cheating didn't affect any games this year. You just lowered yourself to the same level that you're mocking, even below it. All I've said about the cheating as it applies to this season is that it should've prevented CoY. If actually aknowledging the fact that Belichick was caught cheating makes me a weenie with his panties in a bunch, well then I guess we all are since we all know that is a fact.

Try not to be so literal. My point is that your posting history merits your inclusion in said group, irrespective of whether or not you have "applied an asterisk to this season". Your opinions and attitudes are known, as you have expressed them repeatedly, and appear to go to some effort to continue to do so.

No it doesn't. If I don't say something, then I don't belong in the group of people that did. In fact, I have said the opposite, repeatedly. It's called being objective and not a blind homer or hater. If I repeatedly say to people that the asterisk doesn't belong on this season, how can I be grouped in with the people who say this season has an asterisk? That's mental.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

While I would agree that mad sweeney's posting history merits the label patriots basher, I tend to think the "communication" that is alluded to above is communication at or near the end of the game, and nothing more. You can make the argument that an end-of-game agreement like this technically meets the definition of collusion, but then you would be bringing yourself down to the level of sweeney and phlegmboy and the rest of the asterisk-posting weenies who feel compelled to run around with their panties in a wad crying "cheater, cheater, cheater!"

This is a non-story, just like the Jets videotaping was a non-story.

Wow, talk about not letting facts get in the way of the truth! I have never, ever applied an asterisk to this season and have repeatedly said that the cheating didn't affect any games this year. You just lowered yourself to the same level that you're mocking, even below it. All I've said about the cheating as it applies to this season is that it should've prevented CoY. If actually aknowledging the fact that Belichick was caught cheating makes me a weenie with his panties in a bunch, well then I guess we all are since we all know that is a fact.

Try not to be so literal. My point is that your posting history merits your inclusion in said group, irrespective of whether or not you have "applied an asterisk to this season". Your opinions and attitudes are known, as you have expressed them repeatedly, and appear to go to some effort to continue to do so.

No it doesn't. If I don't say something, then I don't belong in the group of people that did. In fact, I have said the opposite, repeatedly. It's called being objective and not a blind homer or hater. If I repeatedly say to people that the asterisk doesn't belong on this season, how can I be grouped in with the people who say this season has an asterisk? That's mental.

Allow me to explain. The group that I am referring to includes EITHER (a) those who take every opportunity to post asterisks, OR (b) those who take every opportunity to post references to cheating. The transgressions of Week 1 2007 were acknowledged and apologized for by BB, and fines and draft penalties were imposed. Continued re-visitation of this tired subject carries with it an implied agenda, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy into your "objective" self-labelling.Having said that, you're free to express whatever opinions you want. I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this issue anytime soon.

 

[mad sweeney]

While I would agree that mad sweeney's posting history merits the label patriots basher, I tend to think the "communication" that is alluded to above is communication at or near the end of the game, and nothing more. You can make the argument that an end-of-game agreement like this technically meets the definition of collusion, but then you would be bringing yourself down to the level of sweeney and phlegmboy and the rest of the asterisk-posting weenies who feel compelled to run around with their panties in a wad crying "cheater, cheater, cheater!"

This is a non-story, just like the Jets videotaping was a non-story.

Wow, talk about not letting facts get in the way of the truth! I have never, ever applied an asterisk to this season and have repeatedly said that the cheating didn't affect any games this year. You just lowered yourself to the same level that you're mocking, even below it. All I've said about the cheating as it applies to this season is that it should've prevented CoY. If actually aknowledging the fact that Belichick was caught cheating makes me a weenie with his panties in a bunch, well then I guess we all are since we all know that is a fact.

Try not to be so literal. My point is that your posting history merits your inclusion in said group, irrespective of whether or not you have "applied an asterisk to this season". Your opinions and attitudes are known, as you have expressed them repeatedly, and appear to go to some effort to continue to do so.

No it doesn't. If I don't say something, then I don't belong in the group of people that did. In fact, I have said the opposite, repeatedly. It's called being objective and not a blind homer or hater. If I repeatedly say to people that the asterisk doesn't belong on this season, how can I be grouped in with the people who say this season has an asterisk? That's mental.

Allow me to explain. The group that I am referring to includes EITHER (a) those who take every opportunity to post asterisks, OR (b) those who take every opportunity to post references to cheating. The transgressions of Week 1 2007 were acknowledged and apologized for by BB, and fines and draft penalties were imposed. Continued re-visitation of this tired subject carries with it an implied agenda, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy into your "objective" self-labelling.Having said that, you're free to express whatever opinions you want. I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this issue anytime soon.

So a guy brings up spygate in relation to this possible collusion and I respond to it with a valid point more about the proof of this one than BB's incident, therefore I am "taking every opportunity to post references to it". BB wins coach of year and I bring it up in a very relevant discussion about it and I am doing the same. I don't think bringing up Spygate in relation to any CoY/BB discussion is bringing it up at every chance. It's bringing it up where it deserves to be.

In the meantime I often bring to bear against those posting asterisks on this season as being out of order. Pretty much once I do this, I am no longer "taking every opportunity to post references to it". If you are defending against something, you certainly can't be on any kind of prosecutorial agenda.

But I brought up the fact that BB got caught cheating, therefore I am a Pat basher. As significant as 16-0 is, so too is record fines/punishments and the two will go hand in hand for as long as people talk about this season's Pats, regardless of whether or not you think that that ugly part of the season should be forgotten and no longer brought up.

 

[Baby New Year]

. As significant as 16-0 is, so too is record fines/punishments and the two will go hand in hand for as long as people talk about this season's Pats,

Sounds like wishful thinking. I'll believe that one when I see it 10 years from now.

 

[Tom Baker]

The only people who REALLY care about this are:

Browns fans pissed about not getting into the playoffs
Pats fans wanting another team that cheats to take some heat
Hardcore conspiracy theorists

Funny, then, that this thread is dominated by Colts apologists who care so little about this that they keep telling us over and over and over what a nonissue it is, and besides, if anything, Dungy's throwing of a game is really just further proof of his class and good sportsmanship . . .

 

[pizzatyme]

Glad I don't have a dog in this fight!

 

[SSOG]

The only people who REALLY care about this are:

Browns fans pissed about not getting into the playoffs
Pats fans wanting another team that cheats to take some heat
Hardcore conspiracy theorists

Funny, then, that this thread is dominated by Colts apologists who care so little about this that they keep telling us over and over and over what a nonissue it is, and besides, if anything, Dungy's throwing of a game is really just further proof of his class and good sportsmanship . . .

Hey man, you'll find few people as ready as I have been to call into question just how "classy" the Colts franchise has been (there are certainly some stains on their resume, no question). I have the posting history to prove it. With that said, I still think this is a non-issue. How is this any different than resting your starters after just a series or two? In both instances, you're not trying your hardest to win a game now to increase your chances of winning a more important game later on.

 

[The Great Snook]

Clearly, both coaches should be fined $500,000 and both teams should lose a first round draft pick. This was despicable and a blight on the NFL

 

[Itchy Amos]

The last drive started from the Indy 24 yard line. Why would they punt after 3 carries, anyway? They would have kicked the FG (Bironas hit a 54 yarder earlier in the year, and has been the AFC's best kicker this year, he wasn't going to miss), which would have made it a 9 point lead with 20 seconds left. The game was OVER, folks.

The simple fact here is that the game was not over. These teams are supposed to play the whole 60 minutes. Kickers miss kicks, kicks get blocked, holders fumble snaps. Given the circumstances, the Titans would conceivably win 99.9% of the time, but that does not make this ok.The bigger question is when did Tennessee know that Indy wasnt going to exhaust every opportunity to win the game. I would like to think that this is a totally innocent circumstance, but given what has already taken place this year across all of professional sports, maybe I shouldnt be so quick to give the benefit of the doubt.

This isn't fantasy football, here. There's no rule against collusion in the NFL. There's no rule that says that a team has to field the best possible lineup every week. A coach's job is to try to win the superbowl. If he feels the best way to do that is to sit his starters, then let him. If he feels the best way to do that is to make no effort to win a game that's meaningless and already essentially over, then let him.

I don't have an NFL rule book in front of me, but I have a hard time imagining that collusion is an accepted practice. In fact, I would imagine that some forms of collusion are not only against the rules, but also against the law. If two teams were to collude to determine the outcome of a game it could blow up into a scandal of monumental proportions. Now, to be clear, I don't think that there is any evidence that Dungy and Fisher met in some dark alley before the game to pre-determine the outcome. Mostly, I just find the phenomenon of a team departing from standard practices in a way that removes the posibility of a victory, to be strange. I don't think that I have ever seen a team not use a timeout when down by only six points and I think it is very unusual for a team to kneel down on anything other than a chip shot field goal. I dont have the statistics on the success rate of a 40 yard field goal, but I would imagine that there would be at least a 20%-25% chance of a missed field goal. In that case, Indy would have the ball back on about the 30 yard line with about 25 seconds left in the game. In this "meaningless game" I think that there would be some value for the backups to go for the win from a confidence standpoint. This point is debatable, so perhaps you disagree. I don't have a huge problem with Indy not going all out for the win. Teams rest players all the time. Coaches make overly conservative play calls all the time. The point that I find interesting here is the assertion from Collins that some sort of communication took place at some time before the end of the game. I have never heard a player make that claim before. We also have some pretty significant circumstantial evidence that some conversation did occur. 1. Kerry Collins stated that he assumed some sort of communication had taken place. Call him a drunk all you want, but to my knowledge he wasn't drunk during the game or during his interview with Boomer.2. Teams usually call a timeout to stop the clock if they can get the ball back and there is any chance of victory. This didn't happen.3. Teams usually run the ball and try to get first downs until the point that the opposing team can no longer stop the clock from counting down to zero by a series of kneel downs. This also didn't happen.Am I wrong here or do teams communicate like this on a regular basis?

 

[trogg78]

I WILL NEVER WATCH FOOTBALL AGAIN! (excet the Browns....GO BROWNS..WOOF...WOOF) I can't believe this is going on. This is no different than what the NFL is letting BB get away with. What a dispicable bunch of losers. at browns fan.-Who Dey.

Why are you calling out Browns fans? You and several others have, yet I don't see Browns fans in here saying anything about this. Unless the OP is a Browns fan, which from the tone of his post, I don't think he is.So why the "LMAO at Brown fans" dig?

It's kind of a wink-wink nudge-nudge things browns fans and bengals fans got going on.

 

[Kosar]

I WILL NEVER WATCH FOOTBALL AGAIN! (excet the Browns....GO BROWNS..WOOF...WOOF) I can't believe this is going on. This is no different than what the NFL is letting BB get away with. What a dispicable bunch of losers. at browns fan.-Who Dey.

Why are you calling out Browns fans? You and several others have, yet I don't see Browns fans in here saying anything about this. Unless the OP is a Browns fan, which from the tone of his post, I don't think he is.So why the "LMAO at Brown fans" dig?

It's kind of a wink-wink nudge-nudge things browns fans and bengals fans got going on.

Is it? I simply see a meager attempt at a dig with no basis or strength.

 

[TxBuckeye]

I WILL NEVER WATCH FOOTBALL AGAIN! (excet the Browns....GO BROWNS..WOOF...WOOF) I can't believe this is going on. This is no different than what the NFL is letting BB get away with. What a dispicable bunch of losers. at browns fan.-Who Dey.

Why are you calling out Browns fans? You and several others have, yet I don't see Browns fans in here saying anything about this. Unless the OP is a Browns fan, which from the tone of his post, I don't think he is.So why the "LMAO at Brown fans" dig?

It's kind of a wink-wink nudge-nudge things browns fans and bengals fans got going on.

Is it? I simply see a meager attempt at a dig with no basis or strength.

That was honestly my first thought too. The OP posted about the situation and the next thing you know, there are several posts about Browns fans whining. I was like "what?" Still haven't seen any justification for it whatsoever. But I guess it's in some people's nature to just be #####.

 

[GregR_2]

I think when someone says something as stupid as what Collins said, the NFL needs to look into it to see if it was really just Collins being stupid, or if something went on that isn't for the good of the game.

If investigating finds that Dungy and Fisher talked last week and Dungy said along the lines of, "Well, we don't care about the game. We won't roll over but if you guys have a chance to win it at the end, wink-wink-nudge-nudge maybe you'll score," then the Hammer that is Roger Goodell should fall.

If investigating finds that Dungy and Fisher talked and Dungy said along the lines of "We want to get out of this game without any injuries, so don't see a reason to make it longer than it need be. But we're not rolling over," then I don't think there's anything to see and the NFL rightfully would just move on.

I wouldn't be terribly upset at a coach in that exact situation not calling a time out. 95% of the time it would be a meaningless timeout that wouldn't change the outcome of the game, but would subject his players to an extra play, and that a kickoff return which is one of the plays where players are most likely to get hurt. If it wasn't a meaningless game to his team, yes he should call the timeout.

 

[Peak]

I WILL NEVER WATCH FOOTBALL AGAIN! (excet the Browns....GO BROWNS..WOOF...WOOF) I can't believe this is going on. This is no different than what the NFL is letting BB get away with. What a dispicable bunch of losers. at browns fan.-Who Dey.

Why are you calling out Browns fans? You and several others have, yet I don't see Browns fans in here saying anything about this. Unless the OP is a Browns fan, which from the tone of his post, I don't think he is.So why the "LMAO at Brown fans" dig?

It's kind of a wink-wink nudge-nudge things browns fans and bengals fans got going on.

Is it? I simply see a meager attempt at a dig with no basis or strength.

That was honestly my first thought too. The OP posted about the situation and the next thing you know, there are several posts about Browns fans whining. I was like "what?" Still haven't seen any justification for it whatsoever. But I guess it's in some people's nature to just be #####.

signed a non-disgruntled Browns fan

 

[enfuego]

Word on the street is that Fisher is furious with Collins for spilling the beans about his little quid pro quo with Tony Dungy.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Word on the street is that Fisher is furious with Collins for spilling the beans about his little quid pro quo with Tony Dungy.

:(

How would he link to a word on the street???

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

Word on the street is that Fisher is furious with Collins for spilling the beans about his little quid pro quo with Tony Dungy.

:(

How would he link to a word on the street???

Ummm...with an iPhone?

 

[enfuego]

The last drive started from the Indy 24 yard line. Why would they punt after 3 carries, anyway? They would have kicked the FG (Bironas hit a 54 yarder earlier in the year, and has been the AFC's best kicker this year, he wasn't going to miss), which would have made it a 9 point lead with 20 seconds left. The game was OVER, folks.

The simple fact here is that the game was not over. These teams are supposed to play the whole 60 minutes. Kickers miss kicks, kicks get blocked, holders fumble snaps. Given the circumstances, the Titans would conceivably win 99.9% of the time, but that does not make this ok.The bigger question is when did Tennessee know that Indy wasnt going to exhaust every opportunity to win the game. I would like to think that this is a totally innocent circumstance, but given what has already taken place this year across all of professional sports, maybe I shouldnt be so quick to give the benefit of the doubt.

This isn't fantasy football, here. There's no rule against collusion in the NFL. There's no rule that says that a team has to field the best possible lineup every week. A coach's job is to try to win the superbowl. If he feels the best way to do that is to sit his starters, then let him. If he feels the best way to do that is to make no effort to win a game that's meaningless and already essentially over, then let him.

 

[enfuego]

Word on the street is that Fisher is furious with Collins for spilling the beans about his little quid pro quo with Tony Dungy.

:(

How would he link to a word on the street???

And "word on the street" is supposed to be credible? pffffttt.....

 

[Frostillicus]

Wow

 

[trogg78]

I WILL NEVER WATCH FOOTBALL AGAIN! (excet the Browns....GO BROWNS..WOOF...WOOF) I can't believe this is going on. This is no different than what the NFL is letting BB get away with. What a dispicable bunch of losers. at browns fan.-Who Dey.

Why are you calling out Browns fans? You and several others have, yet I don't see Browns fans in here saying anything about this. Unless the OP is a Browns fan, which from the tone of his post, I don't think he is.So why the "LMAO at Brown fans" dig?

It's kind of a wink-wink nudge-nudge things browns fans and bengals fans got going on.

Is it? I simply see a meager attempt at a dig with no basis or strength.

Is that different from what i described? There is no basis or argument, just some intra-state ribbing. Nothing to see here...move along.

 

[lion_crazz]

People complain if you play the full 60 minutes (Pats)People complain if you don't play the full 60 minutes (Colts)Conclusion: People are dumb

Some people just do not see the point... This is not a thread about the Browns not making the playoffs. This is a thread about two teams potentially making an agreement while gameplay was still going on. How early did the Colts decide to give it to the Titans? People complain that the Patriots try to run up the score at the end of games. The Colts were still losing in this game. A completely different scenario.

 

[enfuego]

People complain if you play the full 60 minutes (Pats)

People complain if you don't play the full 60 minutes (Colts)

Conclusion: People are dumb

Some people just do not see the point... This is not a thread about the Browns not making the playoffs. This is a thread about two teams potentially making an agreement while gameplay was still going on. How early did the Colts decide to give it to the Titans?

Just curious...what if they did? Show me the rule that shows me they are not allowed to do that?

 

[Itchy Amos]

People complain if you play the full 60 minutes (Pats)

People complain if you don't play the full 60 minutes (Colts)

Conclusion: People are dumb

Some people just do not see the point... This is not a thread about the Browns not making the playoffs. This is a thread about two teams potentially making an agreement while gameplay was still going on. How early did the Colts decide to give it to the Titans?

Just curious...what if they did? Show me the rule that shows me they are not allowed to do that?

I was curious about that as well. This is what I found in the NFL.com rulebook. From what I can tell, this section seems to give the commissioner some latitude in dealing with situations that are not within normal accepted practices:"Unfair Acts

Commissioner’s Authority

The Commissioner has sole authority to investigate and to take appropriate disciplinary or corrective measures if any club action, nonparticipant interference, or emergency occurs in an NFL game which he deems so unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of a game.

No Club Protests

The authority and measures provided for in this section (UNFAIR ACTS) do not constitute a protest machinery for NFL clubs to dispute the result of a game. The Commissioner will conduct an investigation under this section only to review an act or occurrence that he deems so unfair that the result of the game in question may be inequitable to one of the participating teams. The Commissioner will not apply his authority under this section when a club registers a complaint concerning judgmental errors or routine errors of omission by game officials. Games involving such complaints will continue to stand as completed.

Penalties for Unfair Acts

The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate."

 

[Fallerjw]

I WILL NEVER WATCH FOOTBALL AGAIN! (excet the Browns....GO BROWNS..WOOF...WOOF) I can't believe this is going on. This is no different than what the NFL is letting BB get away with. What a dispicable bunch of losers. at browns fan.-Who Dey.

Why are you calling out Browns fans? You and several others have, yet I don't see Browns fans in here saying anything about this. Unless the OP is a Browns fan, which from the tone of his post, I don't think he is.So why the "LMAO at Brown fans" dig?

It's kind of a wink-wink nudge-nudge things browns fans and bengals fans got going on.

 

[Bobcat10]

I WILL NEVER WATCH FOOTBALL AGAIN! (excet the Browns....GO BROWNS..WOOF...WOOF) I can't believe this is going on. This is no different than what the NFL is letting BB get away with. What a dispicable bunch of losers. at browns fan.-Who Dey.

Why are you calling out Browns fans? You and several others have, yet I don't see Browns fans in here saying anything about this. Unless the OP is a Browns fan, which from the tone of his post, I don't think he is.So why the "LMAO at Brown fans" dig?

It's kind of a wink-wink nudge-nudge things browns fans and bengals fans got going on.

At least we don't speak, write or think about "who dey".