Commish modifies rules during sundays games.. (1 Viewer)

[kylechoffman]

Please help - Our scoring system was changed during games yesterday and I need some outside input.

History of our rules:

Last year, a team defense got pts for 2 pt conversions, tds and such instead of the individual players. For the 2006 season, we changed the rules that players get pts for 2 pt conversions and Ints/fumbles. So yesterday's play at the Minn game with Longwell throwing a td according to 2005 rules would have given the ydg and TD to GB Special Teams. The Rules were only modified for 2006 in that a player gets pts for 2 pt conversions and INTs, there were never any discussed or written rule changes for tds.

TDS for PK are not in our bylaws, the only changes regarding Special teams transfer of credit to players is for 2 pt conversions and Ints

2.rule changes:

a. 2 pt conversions goes to the player.

c. we now have -1 point per int. and fumbles charged to said player

The Problem

The team that had longwell playing made a phone call to the commish to tell him that he should have gotten credit for the td, 10 minutes later, the Rules were changed. Our commish went onto our league website, modified the scoring rules during the Minn game which then gave longwell and the team that started him an extra 3 pts (our passing tds are 3 pts under 30 yds).

The Question:

So the question is, was this oversight and it should count because the commish forgot to include such rule and he is allowed to update the rules?

Or should this have been looked at on Tuesday, after the games were completed?

My problem as a member of this league is that the commish changed the rules on the fly during games. It doesnt matter if he messed up and forgot to change the scoring system - that the rules should have been there. He modified rules during a game which impacted the outcome of a game in our league. I am trying to validate myself here - I called him out on the message board and he stated I was complaining about the rules - which hes clearly missing my issue with him.

Oh by the way, after I called him out on the message board, he backed out the changes he made.

Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated..

 

[Bluestaples]

Oh by the way, after I called him out on the message board, he backed out the changes he made.

Ok, so what you are saying is that your commish did not modify rules during sunday's games. Gotcha.

 

[kylechoffman]

Oh by the way, after I called him out on the message board, he backed out the changes he made.

Ok, so what you are saying is that your commish did not modify rules during sunday's games. Gotcha.

Thanks for being a wiseass.

 

[Avery]

Oh by the way, after I called him out on the message board, he backed out the changes he made.

Ok, so what you are saying is that your commish did not modify rules during sunday's games. Gotcha.

I have a related question.A cop almost gave me a speeding ticket the other day, but after I told him about an emergency I had, he backed off giving me one.Should I fight it in court?

 

[The Commish]

Please help - Our scoring system was changed during games yesterday and I need some outside input.

History of our rules:

Last year, a team defense got pts for 2 pt conversions, tds and such instead of the individual players. For the 2006 season, we changed it to the players. So yesterday's play at the GB/ NO game with Longwell throwing a td according to 2005 rules would have given the ydg and TD to GB Special Teams. This year, the pts should have gone to Longwell.

Our rules were not modified by our commish for 2006 for PK. There were no rules on our league website on MFL.com for PK and tds/yardage. So when that td happened yesterday, Longwell did not get credit because our scoring system didnt have the rules written.

The Problem

The team that had longwell playing made a phone call to the commish to tell him this, 10 minutes later, the Rules were changed. Our commish went onto our league website, modified the scoring rules during the GB/NO game which then gave longwell and the team that started him an extra 3 pts (our passing tds are 3 pts under 30 yds).

The Question:

So the question is, was this oversight and it should count because the commish forgot to update the rules?

Or should this have been looked at on Tuesday, after the games were completed?

My problem as a member of this league is that the commish changed the rules on the fly during games. It doesnt matter if he messed up and forgot to change the scoring system - that the rules should have been there. He modified rules during a game which impacted the outcome of a game in our league. I am trying to validate myself here - I called him out on the message board and he stated I was complaining about the rules - which hes clearly missing my issue with him.

Oh by the way, after I called him out on the message board, he backed out the changes he made.

Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated..

Did he, or did he not change the rules??

 

[AcerFC]

If the rule was changed and the commish just forgot to add the rule, then he should be allowed to change on fly. If he did it without consulting or letting anyone know, it should not be ok

 

[Avery]

Oh by the way, after I called him out on the message board, he backed out the changes he made.

Ok, so what you are saying is that your commish did not modify rules during sunday's games. Gotcha.

I have a related question.A cop almost gave me a speeding ticket the other day, but after I told him about an emergency I had, he backed off giving me one.Should I fight it in court?

Wiseass #2. Sorry.

 

[guderian]

Sounds like you are looking for a loophole. In my leagues the website is considered to be a tool that makes running the league easier, but the website is not the final arbiter of our league's rules. We go with the formal league rules and if something happens with the website, tough luck.

 

[DoubleG]

No offense, but if the league had agreed to the changes before hand and the commish simply forgot to add them in, what difference does it make whether it was corrected in-game or Tuesday after the games? Either way (again IF the change was agreed to beforehand), it should be corrected so that the final score reflects the rules agreed to by the league - whether the commish forgot to key them in or not.

In the words of Sgt. Hulka, "Lighten up, Francis"

 

[mad sweeney]

Please help - Our scoring system was changed during games yesterday and I need some outside input.

History of our rules:

Last year, a team defense got pts for 2 pt conversions, tds and such instead of the individual players. For the 2006 season, we changed it to the players. So yesterday's play at the GB/ NO game with Longwell throwing a td according to 2005 rules would have given the ydg and TD to GB Special Teams. This year, the pts should have gone to Longwell.

Our rules were not modified by our commish for 2006 for PK. There were no rules on our league website on MFL.com for PK and tds/yardage. So when that td happened yesterday, Longwell did not get credit because our scoring system didnt have the rules written.

The Problem

The team that had longwell playing made a phone call to the commish to tell him this, 10 minutes later, the Rules were changed. Our commish went onto our league website, modified the scoring rules during the GB/NO game which then gave longwell and the team that started him an extra 3 pts (our passing tds are 3 pts under 30 yds).

The Question:

So the question is, was this oversight and it should count because the commish forgot to update the rules?

Or should this have been looked at on Tuesday, after the games were completed?

My problem as a member of this league is that the commish changed the rules on the fly during games. It doesnt matter if he messed up and forgot to change the scoring system - that the rules should have been there. He modified rules during a game which impacted the outcome of a game in our league. I am trying to validate myself here - I called him out on the message board and he stated I was complaining about the rules - which hes clearly missing my issue with him.

Oh by the way, after I called him out on the message board, he backed out the changes he made.

Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated..

Did he, or did he not change the rules??

And I believe Longwell is now a Viqueen, not a Pecker.

 

[bryhamm]

Sounds like you are looking for a loophole. In my leagues the website is considered to be a tool that makes running the league easier, but the website is not the final arbiter of our league's rules. We go with the formal league rules and if something happens with the website, tough luck.

I really don't understand why anyone would vote "yes". The rule was changed. Just because it was setup incorrectly on the site does not mean that the points should not be awarded properly.

 

[The Commish]

Please help - Our scoring system was changed during games yesterday and I need some outside input.

History of our rules:

Last year, a team defense got pts for 2 pt conversions, tds and such instead of the individual players. For the 2006 season, we changed it to the players. So yesterday's play at the GB/ NO game with Longwell throwing a td according to 2005 rules would have given the ydg and TD to GB Special Teams. This year, the pts should have gone to Longwell.

Our rules were not modified by our commish for 2006 for PK. There were no rules on our league website on MFL.com for PK and tds/yardage. So when that td happened yesterday, Longwell did not get credit because our scoring system didnt have the rules written.

The Problem

The team that had longwell playing made a phone call to the commish to tell him this, 10 minutes later, the Rules were changed. Our commish went onto our league website, modified the scoring rules during the GB/NO game which then gave longwell and the team that started him an extra 3 pts (our passing tds are 3 pts under 30 yds).

The Question:

So the question is, was this oversight and it should count because the commish forgot to update the rules?

Or should this have been looked at on Tuesday, after the games were completed?

My problem as a member of this league is that the commish changed the rules on the fly during games. It doesnt matter if he messed up and forgot to change the scoring system - that the rules should have been there. He modified rules during a game which impacted the outcome of a game in our league. I am trying to validate myself here - I called him out on the message board and he stated I was complaining about the rules - which hes clearly missing my issue with him.

Oh by the way, after I called him out on the message board, he backed out the changes he made.

Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated..

Did he, or did he not change the rules??

And I believe Longwell is now a Viqueen, not a Pecker.

That was going to be my next question. How is Longwell still a Packer in that league?

 

[RRaptors]

If the rule was changed and the commish just forgot to add the rule, then he should be allowed to change on fly. If he did it without consulting or letting anyone know, it should not be ok

If the league had agreed to the changes before hand and the commish simply forgot to add them in, what difference does it make whether it was corrected in-game or Tuesday after the games? Either way (again IF the change was agreed to beforehand), it should be corrected so that the final score reflects the rules agreed to by the league - whether the commish forgot to key them in or not.

I Agree.

 

[GroveDiesel]

No offense, but if the league had agreed to the changes before hand and the commish simply forgot to add them in, what difference does it make whether it was corrected in-game or Tuesday after the games? Either way (again IF the change was agreed to beforehand), it should be corrected so that the final score reflects the rules agreed to by the league - whether the commish forgot to key them in or not. In the words of Sgt. Hulka, "Lighten up, Francis"

 

[The Commish]

Sounds like you are looking for a loophole. In my leagues the website is considered to be a tool that makes running the league easier, but the website is not the final arbiter of our league's rules. We go with the formal league rules and if something happens with the website, tough luck.

I really don't understand why anyone would vote "yes". The rule was changed. Just because it was setup incorrectly on the site does not mean that the points should not be awarded properly.

I can only assume that those voting yes didn't read the situation before voting. Either that, or we have some really dumb people here.

 

[Doug B]

Last year, a team defense got pts for 2 pt conversions, tds and such instead of the individual players. For the 2006 season, we changed it to the players.

Was everyone aware of this ahead of time? Was the rule change documented somehow (e-mail, etc.)? If so:I think that previously-agreed-upon league scoring rules should trump online slip-ups. From what you're telling us ... I have no problem with what your commish did. The online set-up was not accurately reflecting your league's agreed-upon scoring system, so he fixed it. Doesn't matter when he fixed it.

 

[ShadowMaster]

It sounds like his modification was to fix an error.

You yourself admit it should count for the player - so what are you crying like a ##### for?

Going with your commish on this one - he did the correct thing.

 

[netnalp]

If he added the 3 points to Longwell and posted a league message why, then I have no problem with that. He'd be following "the Spirit of the Rule" which is what my league do since unforseen methods of scoring do occur (ie. Flutie's drop kick, Johnson & Young catching their own pass and running it in for a TD).

If the points were given to the Minnesota special teams, I wouldn't agree with that since it reflects your 2005 and not the changes made in 2006.

Changing the points during the game is the better way I think, at least the opponent knows where they stand. I'd be more disappointed if after all the games I had a win only to have it changed in the middle of the week to a loss by a few points.

Those that voted "yes" in the poll, I'd assume most read over it quickly and read the question as "Did the commissioner act appropriately?" rather than "inappropriately". I almost clicked "yes" myself, easy to overlook the "in" because IMHO the expectation is that questions like this are more likley to follow the format of "Did the commissioner act appropriately?" than "inappropriately". Don't go just by the poll #s.

 

[GregR_2]

So to restate the situation without using your mixture of different definitions for "rules"...

Your league changed your RULES to be so that the individual player gets the points.

The WEBSITE'S SETUP was incorrect according to your RULES.

The commish followed your RULES and fixed the incorrect WEBSITE'S SETUP.

I don't see what the issue is, why you're bringing this up, or why you would complain. The only mistake he made is in backing it out. It's hard enough being a commish without people raising issues that aren't issues. He did the right thing, your league should support him in that.

The only real question is whether week 1 results should be recalculated with the WEBSITE SETUP fixed to follow your rules. If you have no rule stating when results are final I'd suggest you add one to be the start of games the following week so resolution is clear in these situations.

 

[a_rackowski]

The commish did the right thing. Rolling his changes out was the wrong thing.

 

[Big Score]

Please help - Our scoring system was changed during games yesterday and I need some outside input.

History of our rules:

Last year, a team defense got pts for 2 pt conversions, tds and such instead of the individual players. For the 2006 season, we changed it to the players.

So for this season, the rules were changed for the scoring to go to the players instead of the D and all your commish did, was enfoce the rule?What's the problem here?

 

[Snotbubbles]

I agree with everyone else.

Your commissioner didn't change the rule, he simply changed the way the website tallied the scores based on your already existing rules.

Edit: Did not vote because I don't believe the commish should change a rule on the fly. That's not what happened here.

 

[kylechoffman]

Well leave it to me to start a thread way too early before the caffeine sets in -

Sorry about the packer-longwell reference.

TDS for PK are not in our bylaws, the only changes regarding Special teams transfer of credit to players is for 2 pt conversions and Ints

2.rule changes:

a. 2 pt conversions goes to the player.

c. we now have -1 point per int. and fumbles charged to said player

SOOOOO - giving tds to pks was never discussed - it was implied based upon rules a and c above. Based upon last years rules that still stands, minn defense scores the td.

 

[guderian]

Well leave it to me to start a thread way too early before the caffeine sets in -

Sorry about the packer-longwell reference.

TDS for PK are not in our bylaws, the only changes regarding Special teams transfer of credit to players is for 2 pt conversions and Ints

2.rule changes:

a. 2 pt conversions goes to the player.

c. we now have -1 point per int. and fumbles charged to said player

SOOOOO - giving tds to pks was never discussed - it was implied based upon rules a and c above. Based upon last years rules that still stands, minn defense scores the td.

So you called your commish out on the MB and he caved in and fixed the change to your liking. Still, you weren't happy with getting what you wanted so you started a thread about it--apparently to get third party confirmation that you were, at worst, temporarily wronged. When people didn't give you this confirmation and disagreed with you, you then come up with more information and unilateraly conclude "Based upon last years rules that still stands, minn defense scores the td."Sounds like you take this way to seriously. Try being a commish one day and you'll learn that it's not as easy as it seems. This is a ####ing game after all, no need to start a quixotic quest for affirmation on a wrong (in your mind) that was corrected.

 

[bryhamm]

Just as you don't give 3pts for a FG to the MIN special teams (you correctly give it to Ryan Longwell), why would you feel that this would not fall under an individual performance for Longwell?

 

[kylechoffman]

Well leave it to me to start a thread way too early before the caffeine sets in -

Sorry about the packer-longwell reference.

TDS for PK are not in our bylaws, the only changes regarding Special teams transfer of credit to players is for 2 pt conversions and Ints

2.rule changes:

a. 2 pt conversions goes to the player.

c. we now have -1 point per int. and fumbles charged to said player

SOOOOO - giving tds to pks was never discussed - it was implied based upon rules a and c above. Based upon last years rules that still stands, minn defense scores the td.

So you called your commish out on the MB and he caved in and fixed the change to your liking. Still, you weren't happy with getting what you wanted so you started a thread about it--apparently to get third party confirmation that you were, at worst, temporarily wronged. When people didn't give you this confirmation and disagreed with you, you then come up with more information and unilateraly conclude "Based upon last years rules that still stands, minn defense scores the td."Sounds like you take this way to seriously. Try being a commish one day and you'll learn that it's not as easy as it seems. This is a ####ing game after all, no need to start a quixotic quest for affirmation on a wrong (in your mind) that was corrected.

Im an owner in the league - not the team with the player. I posted this to get opinions on the behaivor of the commish.

 

[netnalp]

Well leave it to me to start a thread way too early before the caffeine sets in -

Sorry about the packer-longwell reference.

TDS for PK are not in our bylaws, the only changes regarding Special teams transfer of credit to players is for 2 pt conversions and Ints

2.rule changes:

a. 2 pt conversions goes to the player.

c. we now have -1 point per int. and fumbles charged to said player

SOOOOO - giving tds to pks was never discussed - it was implied based upon rules a and c above. Based upon last years rules that still stands, minn defense scores the td.

It looks to me that most of the scoring, positive and negative were changed to the player. TDs in regards to kickers were overlooked. If the holder was a QB and he threw the pass would he get the TD according to your rules? If so then the kicker does too. Regardless, to me it looks like the intention of the changes was to move the scoring and penalties to the individual and TDs were just overlooked. Commish acted correctly.

 

[kylechoffman]

thanks for all the input

 

[Snotbubbles]

Well leave it to me to start a thread way too early before the caffeine sets in - Sorry about the packer-longwell reference.TDS for PK are not in our bylaws, the only changes regarding Special teams transfer of credit to players is for 2 pt conversions and Ints2.rule changes:a. 2 pt conversions goes to the player.c. we now have -1 point per int. and fumbles charged to said playerSOOOOO - giving tds to pks was never discussed - it was implied based upon rules a and c above. Based upon last years rules that still stands, minn defense scores the td.

As someone said before using "the spirit of the rule," it seems irrelevant that it would matter if the team was lining up for an extra point or a field goal and the kicker throws a forward pass for a score. How do you justify awarding and taking away points for a kicker on a pass attempt during an extra point and not for field goal. It's the same principle. It's implicit in your rules that the intention (or "spirit") of the rule was to award points to the kickers for their passing attempts (regardless of the kicking situation). What was the leagues justification for limiting this to only 2pt. conversions?

 

[thayman]

Well leave it to me to start a thread way too early before the caffeine sets in -

Sorry about the packer-longwell reference.

TDS for PK are not in our bylaws, the only changes regarding Special teams transfer of credit to players is for 2 pt conversions and Ints

2.rule changes:

a. 2 pt conversions goes to the player.

c. we now have -1 point per int. and fumbles charged to said player

SOOOOO - giving tds to pks was never discussed - it was implied based upon rules a and c above. Based upon last years rules that still stands, minn defense scores the td.

Yes it was discussed.....last time I checked a kicker is still a player. Your rule says 2 pt conv. goes to the player.

 

[GregR_2]

Since it wasn't a special teams play the whole thing should be moot anyway. The Vikes snapped the ball, so it's either an offensive play or a special teams play. No kick took place = offensive play. Special teams/D aren't a factor on a passing play.

 

[chadavan]

Since it wasn't a special teams play the whole thing should be moot anyway. The Vikes snapped the ball, so it's either an offensive play or a special teams play. No kick took place = offensive play. Special teams/D aren't a factor on a passing play.

This is all I could think of through reading all of this.It was a 4th down offensive play, even your old rules give Longwell the TD.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Since it wasn't a special teams play the whole thing should be moot anyway. The Vikes snapped the ball, so it's either an offensive play or a special teams play. No kick took place = offensive play. Special teams/D aren't a factor on a passing play.