Commish's worst nightmare--screwed up the playoffs? (1 Viewer)

[nuts&bolts]

We had three teams (A, B, C) with the same record, vying for the last two playoff spots. Our first tiebreaker is head-to-head--that's all our rules say.

TEAM A, vs. B and C = (1-2) & (3-0) = 4-2 = .667

TEAM B, vs. A and C = (2-1) & (1-2) = 3-3 = .500

TEAM C, vs. A and B = (0-3) & (2-1) = 2-4 = .333

In the NFL tiebreaker system, they say that the first tiebreaker for teams in the same division, which these teams were, is "Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs)". Am I correct in assuming in that, in the NFL, Teams A and B would be in, and Team C would be out? (In our league, since no one team beat the other two, it was deemed that the head-to-head tiebreaker "cycled", so we dropped to our 2nd tiebreaker, total season points. This put A & C in, and left Team B out).

As it shook out in our league, Team C got in and won the whole thing. Now I have had it brought to my attention that Team C may not have even be eligible for the playoffs. (And thanks to consolation bracket matchups, we know that Team B would have made the championship game, and Team A would have won the championship).

Questions:

1. If "head-to-head" is the tiebreaker, should Team C have been left out?

2. Have you guys ever faced anything like this? What's the fair thing to do?

I'm the commish, and I ####ed this up. I feel sick about it. (No money involved--just a "pride" league). What's the fair thing to do?

 

[Loan Sharks]

Leave it.

 

[mozzy84]

its a free league, team c has won it...

 

[CA_7]

If all your rules say is "head-to-head", you can't assume it is an aggregate record for more than two teams -----> "best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs".

Head-to-head implies two teams only IMO, if that tie-breaker isn't sufficient, move on to tie-break#2

 

[The Man With No Name]

A is in because of better head to head among the three teams. Then C is in because of better record against team B.

 

[chitlins3]

A is in because of better head to head among the three teams. Then C is in because of better record against team B.

This is how the NFL would do it.

 

[pettifogger]

Team B had the obligation to raise this argument before the first playoff game was played. Once the games started, it was like throwing a red flag calling for a replay after the following play started. Too late.

 

[nuts&bolts]

A is in because of better head to head among the three teams. Then C is in because of better record against team B.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

 

[Mahoney]

Head to head is never used when there are more than 2 teams tied. You simply move onto the next tie breaker which is probably Division record, Conference record or total points.

It sounds like you did that, moved onto total points, which indicated A and C advance.

You did it correctly.

 

[Mahoney]

Am I correct in assuming in that, in the NFL, Teams A and B would be in, and Team C would be out?

No.The NFL would never use "head to head" as a tiebreaker for 3 or more teams. Only two.

 

[nuts&bolts]

Am I correct in assuming in that, in the NFL, Teams A and B would be in, and Team C would be out?

No.The NFL would never use "head to head" as a tiebreaker for 3 or more teams. Only two.

I think you are wrong. Go read the link in the original post above. The very first tiebreaker under "Three or More Clubs" is:"1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs)."

The NFL clearly does use head-to-head winning pct. when more than two clubs are involved.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Am I correct in assuming in that, in the NFL, Teams A and B would be in, and Team C would be out?

No.The NFL would never use "head to head" as a tiebreaker for 3 or more teams. Only two.

I think you are wrong. Go read the link in the original post above. The very first tiebreaker under "Three or More Clubs" is:"1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs)."

The NFL clearly does use head-to-head winning pct. when more than two clubs are involved.

If the Chargers, Ravens, and Colts all finish 13-3 (Ravens and Colts go 2-0 and Bolts go 1-1), the team that gets the #1 seed is the Bolts, even though the Ravens beat them head to head and none of the other teams played each other. The NFL just moves to the next tie breaker.

 

[Team Legacy]

The answer is .. there IS no right answer.

The rules are not clear so somebody is going to lose bigtime.

 

[nuts&bolts]

Am I correct in assuming in that, in the NFL, Teams A and B would be in, and Team C would be out?

No.The NFL would never use "head to head" as a tiebreaker for 3 or more teams. Only two.

I think you are wrong. Go read the link in the original post above. The very first tiebreaker under "Three or More Clubs" is:"1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs)."

The NFL clearly does use head-to-head winning pct. when more than two clubs are involved.

If the Chargers, Ravens, and Colts all finish 13-3 (Ravens and Colts go 2-0 and Bolts go 1-1), the team that gets the #1 seed is the Bolts, even though the Ravens beat them head to head and none of the other teams played each other. The NFL just moves to the next tie breaker.

That's different, because those teams are not in the same division. Read the whole tiebreaker section cited above. . .

 

[MarcO]

A is in because of better head to head among the three teams. Then C is in because of better record against team B.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

yes, I believe this is correct too. Once the tie is broken between the three teams then it resets back to the first tie breaker between the remaining two teams.

 

[Slum Lord]

A is in because of better head to head among the three teams. Then C is in because of better record against team B.

Yeah but B could argue that he had a better record against A, so why is A in and B out? This is why you need better rules. Its a free league, so its all cool, but i want to play devils advocate... If I was team B, i'd have a beef. I had a better head to head record against A. Thats the bottom line. Head to head, as the tiebreaker is laid out, says I'm in because i beat team A. OK so B lost to C, who was beaten by A. So what. B was better than A, right? A was better than C, so A should be in. B was better than A, so B should be in. But C was better than B. Vicious circle.....The percentages listed are not a legit arguement, because its not 'head-to-head'. Its a percentage of all 3 teams, not two (hence head-to-head). There is no 'solid rule' regarding 3 or more teams if you try and use head-to-head for the tiebreaker. You will ALWAYS have someone who could have a legit arguement on why they should be in and not the other guy. Trying to use that just makes a vicious circle. It reminds me of rock-paper-scissors. Now my head hurts.In my league, when 3 teams from the same division are tied, it goes divison record, then total points scored. Thats the only way.

 

[turnit643]

The answer is .. there IS no right answer.The rules are not clear so somebody is going to lose bigtime.

nuts&bolts, don't crush yourself over this. It's a free league, so it'll be a gripe for a while and then it'll become "that infamous playoff year" at future drafts and soon it'll just be a joke. Address it openly, tell everyone you interpreted the rules one way but you realize now they could have been interpreted a number of other ways and move on. Just make an effort to spell it out better in the future, that's it.

 

[nuts&bolts]

A is in because of better head to head among the three teams. Then C is in because of better record against team B.

Yeah but B could argue that he had a better record against A, so why is A in and B out? This is why you need better rules. Its a free league, so its all cool, but i want to play devils advocate... If I was team B, i'd have a beef. I had a better head to head record against A. Thats the bottom line. Head to head, as the tiebreaker is laid out, says I'm in because i beat team A. OK so B lost to C, who was beaten by A. So what. B was better than A, right? A was better than C, so A should be in. B was better than A, so B should be in. But C was better than B. Vicious circle.....



The percentages listed are not a legit arguement, because its not 'head-to-head'. Its a percentage of all 3 teams, not two (hence head-to-head). There is no 'solid rule' regarding 3 or more teams if you try and use head-to-head for the tiebreaker. You will ALWAYS have someone who could have a legit arguement on why they should be in and not the other guy. Trying to use that just makes a vicious circle. It reminds me of rock-paper-scissors. Now my head hurts.

In my league, when 3 teams from the same division are tied, it goes divison record, then total points scored. Thats the only way.

The NFL begs to differ. . .

 

[Mahoney]

Am I correct in assuming in that, in the NFL, Teams A and B would be in, and Team C would be out?

No.The NFL would never use "head to head" as a tiebreaker for 3 or more teams. Only two.

I think you are wrong. Go read the link in the original post above. The very first tiebreaker under "Three or More Clubs" is:"1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs)."

The NFL clearly does use head-to-head winning pct. when more than two clubs are involved.

Wow. I stand corrected. Well it's about time that "something new" I was supposed to learn today came. I thought I was going to miss out.

 

[Don Quixote]

A is in because of better head to head among the three teams. Then C is in because of better record against team B.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

yes, I believe this is correct too. Once the tie is broken between the three teams then it resets back to the first tie breaker between the remaining two teams.

This is how I read it. Tiebreaker among the three teams is to determine 3rd Place. After 3rd place is determined, 4th place is independently determined based on HTH record between B&C.