Commissioner looking for some advice on a trade situation (1 Viewer)

[Steve in Minneapolis]

Guys -

I am looking for some advice on a trade situation that happened today in one of the leagues that I run. It is a work league amongst casual friends, and really runs itself for the most part...in eight years of running the league, this is the first time an issue has popped that I need to make a ruling on.

Team A made a trade offer to Team B three weeks ago. They emailed back and forth, but never finalized the deal. Team A never retracted the offer.

Team B negotiated a deal with Team C today, and said "I will do this, but need to make sure I can do this other deal first. If I can do both, then I will make this deal."

Team B logged on to the site, saw that the offer from Team A was still there, and accepted both offers.

Team A immediately sent an email stating that he never would have accepted this deal and he had no idea that it hadn't been withdrawn.

Team B stated that he assumed it was still available since it was out there, and only agreed to the second trade based on the first one still being available.

If you are the commish, what do you do?

Thanks for any opinions...

 

[Hairy Snowman]

IMHO

Unless there is some kind of collusion, you do nothing.

The owner should have retracted the offer.

Edit to add: If its really going to cause waves at work and among your buddies, you could always take a league vote. Then you don't need to be the

 

[Captain Hook]

Cancel both trades since there was not mutual agreement on both....AND write rules that will prevent this from happening....like trades are only good until kickoff in the current week (most have dates that they are good to but in your league maybe you need to doublecheck and cancel all pending trades if not executed one way or the other)If the teams still want to do it the next week they can re-submit.

 

[footballnerd]

Cancel the trades but that one dude that didn't cancel his OWN trade offer is an idiot, make sure he knows that. Actually make sure he gets an award for it at the end of the season.

 

[Jersey35]

One of my credos as commish is that I'll never allow user error in handling the website interface dictate what is and isn't done in our league. The guy made a mistake and left the offer stand. If this is really the first time it has happened, retract both offers and give team A's owner a lot of grief to ensure it doesn't happen again.

 

[Lambert]

It's one thing to feel sorry for A, and that's fine ... but when all is said and done, the fact is that A screwed up -- he made the offer and never withdrew it. Let both trades stand.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Withdraw both offers and let them start over. He didn't wait until a few days went by to complain. He immediately stated he didn't know it was still active.

Unless you think he was lying, you shouldn't let a manual screw up like that affect a season. The fact that it's a work league among casual friends makes it even more obvious.

Be a hard-core He-Man in a big stakes league. In something like this, no harm no foul.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Since it's a work league I'd back out of both trades but make sure the owner is ridiculed plenty.

If it weren't a work league I'd make it stand.

 

[Brown Juice]

Do nothing, let both trades stand. Why should the other two teams be punished for Team A's screw up? End user error on Team A's part. His own fault.

 

[jimbodan]

I'd let both trades stand. Make it a teaching moment.

 

[Max Power]

One of my credos as commish is that I'll never allow user error in handling the website interface dictate what is and isn't done in our league. The guy made a mistake and left the offer stand. If this is really the first time it has happened, retract both offers and give team A's owner a lot of grief to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Back out of both trades. It was a mistake. These things happen.

 

[FUBAR]

What do your rules state? In a few of mine, trades have to be posted and agreed to on the message board.

I'm guessing your rules are simply that the offer has to be accepted, without posting or confirming.

So you're correct if you let them stand.

If you overturn them you're screwing Team B and C. So if you think it's best to overturn, talk to B first.

 

[Dope]

One of my credos as commish is that I'll never allow user error in handling the website interface dictate what is and isn't done in our league. The guy made a mistake and left the offer stand. If this is really the first time it has happened, retract both offers and give team A's owner a lot of grief to ensure it doesn't happen again.

This is exactly what I would do.

 

[Corn Rocket]

I dislike leagues where people are so uninterested in their team that things like this happen. Let it stand.

 

[otb_lifer]

I dislike leagues where people are so uninterested in their team that things like this happen. Let it stand.

Voted to let it stand ... being commish isn't tantamount to babysitting other owner's rosters/transactions. Unless OBVIOUS collusion is at play, let it go ..

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

How bad is the A and B trade? Is team A getting Britt or something like that?

 

[JD8p]

Cancel both deals.

The team that didn't withdraw their offer is a knucklehead...but at the same time, the team that couldn't take the 30 seconds to respond to the deal and left it up there for 3 weeks is not really doing the right thing.

Start from scratch and let them sort something out if they want to.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Dont matter what kind of league it is, owners are responsible for their own teams.

If they dont retract the offers, thats their fault, ignorants is not an excuse.

you do nothing but say "Too bad, pay more attention"

 

[The Kerminator]

Guys -

I am looking for some advice on a trade situation that happened today in one of the leagues that I run. It is a work league amongst casual friends, and really runs itself for the most part...in eight years of running the league, this is the first time an issue has popped that I need to make a ruling on.

Team A made a trade offer to Team B three weeks ago. They emailed back and forth, but never finalized the deal. Team A never retracted the offer.

Team B negotiated a deal with Team C today, and said "I will do this, but need to make sure I can do this other deal first. If I can do both, then I will make this deal."

Team B logged on to the site, saw that the offer from Team A was still there, and accepted both offers.

Team A immediately sent an email stating that he never would have accepted this deal and he had no idea that it hadn't been withdrawn.

Team B stated that he assumed it was still available since it was out there, and only agreed to the second trade based on the first one still being available.

If you are the commish, what do you do?

Thanks for any opinions...

I think the key is the timing of the e-mails. When you say they e-mailed back-and-forth was it during the week it was offered or was it gong on in the three weeks since? If it was going on all the while you let it stand. If it was just the week the trade was offered and the owner never retracted it you reverse both trades.

 

[Underachievers]

I dislike leagues where people are so uninterested in their team that things like this happen. Let it stand.

+1Seriously....how the hell did Team A not realize that the offer was still on the table? Are the trades he proposed hidden from his view or something? It is more like he did not like the ripple effect that his trade caused (i.e. Team C benefiting also).

 

[JuSt CuZ]

I dislike leagues where people are so uninterested in their team that things like this happen. Let it stand.

+1Seriously....how the hell did Team A not realize that the offer was still on the table? Are the trades he proposed hidden from his view or something? It is more like he did not like the ripple effect that his trade caused (i.e. Team C benefiting also).

Agreed so many people draft a team and then just leave it. Some say they dont have time? lol Everyone has time, with technology now you have no excuse.Problem is in my league, the morons in my league like to let their team sit and rot before they would even consider a trade.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Anyone who says this trade should stand has a serious misunderstanding of the role of a fantasy football commissioner. This board never fails to prove that most people have no business being a commissioner.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Not surprised our resident simpleton CuZ is on the wrong side of this one.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I'm a big propenent of "everyone's responsible for their own teams" but in this case I think you should reverse the trades since it sounds like this is the first time something like this has happened. THEN I'd make damn sure that everyone understands that - from this day forward - they are responsible for any trade offer sent through the league site regardless of any H2H or e-mail trade talks. If you send an offer, it's live until it's either accepted, rejected, or rescinded.

 

[Steve in Minneapolis]

Thanks for the votes and replies... To answer a few questions:

What do your rules state? I'm guessing your rules are simply that the offer has to be accepted, without posting or confirming.

Our rules state that there is a trade deadline, and how we handle odd number of player trades (2 for 1),but that is all.

How bad is the A and B trade? Is team A getting Britt or something like that?

It doesn't include anyone on IR, so it isn't that cut and dried, but I see where you are going....

I think the key is the timing of the e-mails. When you say they e-mailed back-and-forth was it during the week it was offered or was it gong on in the three weeks since? If it was going on all the while you let it stand. If it was just the week the trade was offered and the owner never retracted it you reverse both trades.

The emails between A and B stopped within a day or two of the initial offer.

Seriously....how the hell did Team A not realize that the offer was still on the table? Are the trades he proposed hidden from his view or something? It is more like he did not like the ripple effect that his trade caused (i.e. Team C benefiting also).

He said it was an honest mistake. He had forgotten about it until he saw the trade 'announced' by our site when team B accepted it.

 

[eakfootball]

Did the trades process in the league, or was it a situation where the comish has to confirm them?

 

[Dungeon Master]

Quit the league.

 

[shadyridr]

Dont matter what kind of league it is, owners are responsible for their own teams.

If they dont retract the offers, thats their fault, ignorants is not an excuse.

you do nothing but say "Too bad, pay more attention"

lmao

 

[habsfan]

The key is "casual work league, 8 years, no incidents". Your rules don't focus specific attention on this sort of scenario so I would undo the whole mess. My league trading rules do specifically state that what happens (or doesn't happen) officially through the league host site trumps any emails, texts, discussions etc. When it's bolded in the rules, that's obviously very different...

 

[Jersey35]

It shouldn't matter whether the trade is a good one, a bad one, or a horrible one. Owner A responded to the trade immediately after it was processed and informed you of the error - he didn't intend to make the trade. Does he have to accept some responsibility for the mistake, absolutely, name the new rule after him and give him a funny hat to wear at the draft, but don't send your league speeding off like a runaway train because someone didn't know how to use the system.

This is exactly the type of situation that a commissioner is for. The trade shouldn't go through because one owner didn't intend to make the trade. This is simple stuff guys.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

It shouldn't matter whether the trade is a good one, a bad one, or a horrible one. Owner A responded to the trade immediately after it was processed and informed you of the error - he didn't intend to make the trade. Does he have to accept some responsibility for the mistake, absolutely, name the new rule after him and give him a funny hat to wear at the draft, but don't send your league speeding off like a runaway train because someone didn't know how to use the system.

This is exactly the type of situation that a commissioner is for. The trade shouldn't go through because one owner didn't intend to make the trade. This is simple stuff guys.

Yep

 

[Underachievers]

It shouldn't matter whether the trade is a good one, a bad one, or a horrible one. Owner A responded to the trade immediately after it was processed and informed you of the error - he didn't intend to make the trade. Does he have to accept some responsibility for the mistake, absolutely, name the new rule after him and give him a funny hat to wear at the draft, but don't send your league speeding off like a runaway train because someone didn't know how to use the system.

This is exactly the type of situation that a commissioner is for. The trade shouldn't go through because one owner didn't intend to make the trade. This is simple stuff guys.

Yep

Do not make the trade offer if you do not intend to make the trade. This is simple stuff guys.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Do not make the trade offer if you do not intend to make the trade. This is simple stuff guys.

He made the offer weeks ago. Things change. Any commissioner that forced this deal to stand has no idea what their role is as commissioner.

 

[Crusaderfan]

Everybody runs their own team. If you make a trade offer and later decide you wouldn't want to make that trade - you better be damn sure the offer isn't out there anymore. If not - shame on you!!

 

[Uruk-Hai]

It shouldn't matter whether the trade is a good one, a bad one, or a horrible one. Owner A responded to the trade immediately after it was processed and informed you of the error - he didn't intend to make the trade. Does he have to accept some responsibility for the mistake, absolutely, name the new rule after him and give him a funny hat to wear at the draft, but don't send your league speeding off like a runaway train because someone didn't know how to use the system.

This is exactly the type of situation that a commissioner is for. The trade shouldn't go through because one owner didn't intend to make the trade. This is simple stuff guys.

Yep

Do not make the trade offer if you do not intend to make the trade. This is simple stuff guys.

That's all well and good but, as I said, it appears that this is the first time something like this has happened. On top of that, it's a casual work league. No harm, no foul reversing this and letting everyone know it will not happen in the future. Being commish doesn't mean being an ### in this type of situation. I've commished my local league for 20+ years and have had to deal with things like this a few times (mercifully and thankfully few). Who gets hurt by using this as a teaching moment?Steve, does you website have a setting for trade offers expiring?

 

[Underachievers]

Do not make the trade offer if you do not intend to make the trade. This is simple stuff guys.

He made the offer weeks ago. Things change. Any commissioner that forced this deal to stand has no idea what their role is as commissioner.

Then pull the offer if things changed to the point where he did not want to make the trade anymore. I thought trades were only supposed to be vetoed when there is reason to suspect collusion? I do not see collusion here....I see a manager either not paying attention to his team for 3 weeks or not liking the trade when he saw that Team C also benefited from it as a ripple affect.

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

Always a beliver in that success should be determined by knowledge of the game and not the software. The immediate response by Team A indicates that this is something he no longer agreed to.

reverse the trades

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Then pull the offer if things changed to the point where he did not want to make the trade anymore. I thought trades were only supposed to be vetoed when there is reason to suspect collusion? I do not see collusion here....I see a manager either not paying attention to his team for 3 weeks or not liking the trade when he saw that Team C also benefited from it as a ripple affect.

It's an obvious mistake, and he immediately notified the commissioner. In addition to making sure collusion isn't occurring, commissioners are often tasked to fix errors that occur for whatever reason. On most websites, it's easy to make a trade offer and then forget that it's still outstanding if the other owner never responds, it's not like there's any notification anywhere that you have offers still out there. Has absolutely nothing to do with "not paying attention to his team" or regretting the trade after seeing the "ripple effect." If you're the kind of commissioner who thinks it's appropriate to punish owners for simple mistakes, then you're exactly the kind of person who shouldn't be a commissioner.

 

[Warrior]

Dont matter what kind of league it is, owners are responsible for their own teams.If they dont retract the offers, thats their fault, ignorants is not an excuse.you do nothing but say "Too bad, pay more attention"

First time I've ever agreed with you. Except on the spelling of ignorance.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

First time I've ever agreed with you.

If you find yourself agreeing with JuSt CuZ, that's usually a good indication that you should reconsider your position.

 

[two_dollars]

Common sense dictates that Team A didn't leave a trade out there FOR THREE WEEKS on purpose. This is why I have all trades in my league commish approved. I would have called both teams in a situation like this to make sure everyone is on the same page. I could care less what players were involved, I just use it to verify both parties are involved.

I think you have to reverse the trades and put everyone back to square 1.

 

[Underachievers]

Then pull the offer if things changed to the point where he did not want to make the trade anymore. I thought trades were only supposed to be vetoed when there is reason to suspect collusion? I do not see collusion here....I see a manager either not paying attention to his team for 3 weeks or not liking the trade when he saw that Team C also benefited from it as a ripple affect.

It's an obvious mistake, and he immediately notified the commissioner. In addition to making sure collusion isn't occurring, commissioners are often tasked to fix errors that occur for whatever reason. On most websites, it's easy to make a trade offer and then forget that it's still outstanding if the other owner never responds, it's not like there's any notification anywhere that you have offers still out there. Has absolutely nothing to do with "not paying attention to his team" or regretting the trade after seeing the "ripple effect." If you're the kind of commissioner who thinks it's appropriate to punish owners for simple mistakes, then you're exactly the kind of person who shouldn't be a commissioner.

IF he honestly did not know that his offer was still on the table, then you have a valid point. However, any league that I have ever been in, it is pretty hard to miss the fact that you still have a trade in limbo. How does one forget something like that? FOR 3 WEEKS no less? I may not be the commissioner type...but it would suck to have a commissioner who would excuse such obvious manager negligence to his team.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Whether you want to teach the owners a lesson or not, many of you seem to be forgetting this is a work league. That's a bit different.

 

[The Kerminator]

You reverse both trades.

But where is the responsibility in Owner B, knowing that the trade is 3 weeks old, asking Owner A if the trade offer still stands?

 

[Prince Myshkin]

Dont matter what kind of league it is, owners are responsible for their own teams.

If they dont retract the offers, thats their fault, ignorants is not an excuse.

you do nothing but say "Too bad, pay more attention"

lmao

one of the funniest things i've ever seen here

 

[Prince Myshkin]

You reverse both trades.But where is the responsibility in Owner B, knowing that the trade is 3 weeks old, asking Owner A if the trade offer still stands?

Good point. In a league with colleagues and friends, he should have at least checked with Owner A. I don't know what web service you are using, but my league switched to ESPN this year and it would be very easy to forget about an offered trade. It only puts a little line about "one pending transaction" near the top of the team page. You then have to click the link to see the trade offer.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

IF he honestly did not know that his offer was still on the table, then you have a valid point.

That's obiously the case here.

However, any league that I have ever been in, it is pretty hard to miss the fact that you still have a trade in limbo. How does one forget something like that? FOR 3 WEEKS no less?

I don't know what leagues/websites you've played on, but on most I've played on, it's very easy to forget that you made an offer weeks ago that was never responded to. There's no notification that trade offers you made are still outstanding. The fact that it was 3 weeks ago makes it more likely he forgot, not less likely.

I may not be the commissioner type...but it would suck to have a commissioner who would excuse such obvious manager negligence to his team.

You're not the commissioner type. It's not "negligence", it's a mistake. It would suck to have a commissioner who would pointlessly punish owners for obvious simple mistakes.

 

[Genester]

One of my credos as commish is that I'll never allow user error in handling the website interface dictate what is and isn't done in our league. The guy made a mistake and left the offer stand. If this is really the first time it has happened, retract both offers and give team A's owner a lot of grief to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Back out of both trades. It was a mistake. These things happen.

I agree.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

IF he honestly did not know that his offer was still on the table, then you have a valid point.

That's obiously the case here.

However, any league that I have ever been in, it is pretty hard to miss the fact that you still have a trade in limbo. How does one forget something like that? FOR 3 WEEKS no less?

I don't know what leagues/websites you've played on, but on most I've played on, it's very easy to forget that you made an offer weeks ago that was never responded to. There's no notification that trade offers you made are still outstanding. The fact that it was 3 weeks ago makes it more likely he forgot, not less likely.

I may not be the commissioner type...but it would suck to have a commissioner who would excuse such obvious manager negligence to his team.

You're not the commissioner type. It's not "negligence", it's a mistake. It would suck to have a commissioner who would pointlessly punish owners for obvious simple mistakes.

Look, I've brung down the hammer on owners in my league before. But, for goodness sakes, this was a friggin mistake that reversing does no harm. Had games been played before Team A responded, that's different.

 

[footballnerd]

Dont matter what kind of league it is, owners are responsible for their own teams.

If they dont retract the offers, thats their fault, ignorants is not an excuse.

you do nothing but say "Too bad, pay more attention"

lmao

one of the funniest things i've ever seen here

maybe he meant multiple ignorant people?