*** Complain about the officials thread *** (1 Viewer)

[The Jerk]

Yes this game has clearly crossed a tolerance threshhold for bad officiating. The outrage I am seeing everywhere I go on the internet is unlike anything I have ever seen for any sporting event ever.

You're right. If people are posting it on the Internet, it is obviously true, unbiased and reliable.

 

[BGP]

I think its more like an internet thing than anything else. The feeling of anonymity (sp?) let's people feel at ease being emotional. And people like being emotional. Those that I find that are willing to debate things more rationally I try to keep close.

And you are just the hallmark of rationality and objectivity, especially when the Steelers are involved.

This sort of snide comment is why I say its hard to have a higher level of debate here.

 

[3C's]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

A few pretty interesting reads there if you are curious.

Pulling profootballtalk into this "discussion" won't help the conspiracy theorists.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

There were two Seattle fans and 8 guys who had money on the Steelers at the SB party I was at..  Everyone of them thought Seattle got grossly jobbed.

It wasn't just the obvious calls, it was also the returns where Seattle would get the ball to the 40 and suddenly there was a marginal hold that would put the ball at the 15.

DESPICABLE

I saw clearly on one of the returns that the reason the return was so good was because of a hold/illegal block.Surely you've watched enough NFL games to see that 1) holding and blocks in the back happen a lot during punt returns, and 2) many long returns are called back due to penalties.

Sorry, but your happy gang of ten aren't the only ones who watched the game and have an opinion on it.

Are you telling me that you thought the game was evenly called?The guys at my SB party were laughing at me every time another call went against Seattle (and most of them hate Seattle because thy're Oakland fans). You're either cross-eyed or a huge homer if you thought nothing was wrong with the officiating in this game. I would rather have had Pittsburg have a dominating performance and crush Seattle than to have had to watch this crap.

 

[oukurt]

This is a truly entertaining thread.

Fact is this one will always have an * by it.Deep down inside you know you the majority of us are right. I can't stand either team but still wanted to see a good game. What I saw was a travesty.

I feel for ya Hawks fans. You deserved better.

 

[BGP]

Yes this game has clearly crossed a tolerance threshhold for bad officiating. The outrage I am seeing everywhere I go on the internet is unlike anything I have ever seen for any sporting event ever.

You're right. If people are posting it on the Internet, it is obviously true, unbiased and reliable.

So, you instead feel the NFL fans were very satisfied with the product put on the field today?

 

[Steelers4Life]

This is a truly entertaining thread.

Fact is this one will always have an * by it.Deep down inside you know you the majority of us are right. I can't stand either team but still wanted to see a good game. What I saw was a travesty.

I feel for ya Hawks fans. You deserved better.

I couldn't disagree more. The PI call and the holding call were both clear, and I've watched both plays around 10 times. I've posted enough on them.

 

[The Jerk]

I think its more like an internet thing than anything else.  The feeling of anonymity (sp?) let's people feel at ease being emotional.  And people like being emotional.  Those that I find that are willing to debate things more rationally I try to keep close.

And you are just the hallmark of rationality and objectivity, especially when the Steelers are involved.

This sort of snide comment is why I say its hard to have a higher level of debate here.

You hide behind your pursuit of "excellence" to take potshots at the Steelers every chance you get, then you seek to diminish their accomplishments when they prove you wrong. I hope it makes you happy. So apparently your pursuit of excellence does not include efforts at good sportsmanship, or being able to admit that you were wrong in picking against this team in each of their postseason contests. It's infantile for you to never give the Steelers credit, not excellent.

 

[oukurt]

I actually thought the refs did an ok job tonight.

The Hasselback block below the knee thing was the only truly BAD call of the night IMO.

Which game were you watching?

 

[Kleck]

The feeling of anonymity (sp?) let's people feel at ease being emotional.

I agree completely. I've seen lots of things posted that no person in their right mind would say if their anonymity disappeared.

And people like being emotional.  Those that I find that are willing to debate things more rationally I try to keep close.

Yes, people can be emotional, but its not always such a bad thing. I tend to be rational (cold?), but I try to respect others that don't think the same way I do. I think the problem I've had with some of the things I've seen you post is that you completely discount anyone that has any semblance of a greater or lesser reaction that you do. It comes off as arrogant.While were on the topic, the following quote from Dr. David Keirsey has become sort of a mantra for me.

If I do not want what you want, please try not to tell me that my want is wrong.

Or if I believe other than you, at least pause before you correct my view.

Or if my emotion is less than yours, or more, given the same circumstances, try not to ask me to feel more strongly or weakly.

Or yet if I act, or fail to act, in the manner of your design for action, let me be.

I do not, for the moment at least, ask you to understand me. That will come only when you are willing to give up changing me into a copy of you.

I may be your spouse, your parent, your offsping, your friend, or your colleague. If you will allow me any of my own wants, or emotions, or beliefs, or actions, then you open yourself, so that some day these ways of mine might not seem so wrong, and might finally appear to you as right -- for me. To put up with me is the first step to understanding me. Not that you embrace my ways as right for you, but that you are no longer irritated or disappointed with me for my seeming waywardness. And in understanding me you might come to prize my differences from you, and, far from seeking to change me, preserve and even nurture those differences.

I get the feeling that anything less than a copy of BGP is unacceptable in your eyes.

 

[doughboydeluxe]

Regarding the Jackson interference penalty... I don't have a problem with the refs calling that IF they call it the same way for the whole game. On the drive where Roethlisberger ended up throwing the INT, Ward gave the Seattle DB (I think it was Herndon, but not sure) a shove in the face as he was coming out of his break, and Ward was able to catch the pass and convert a third down. Obviously this play had no bearing on the outcome of the game since Seattle ended up intercepting anyway, but it frustrates me as a fan the lack of consistency in calls in the league's biggest game of the year.

FWIW... I feel the game was very poorly officiated, I am not a fan or hater of either team, and I did not have money on either team. I don't feel the officiating cost the Seahawks the game, but I do feel the game could have been more competitive and entertaining had the officiating been better and more consistent.

 

[tommyboy]

Maybe its the coach in me, but whining about calls is pointless.

I disagree. I think to get the most out of yourself, you need to be completely honest with yourself. If you rationalize away things for whatever reason, you are not allowing yourself to see the real picture as you know it to be and in the end are only shortchanging your own efforts. And it can only compound your problems.

the irony of this post is magnificent!

 

[The Jerk]

There were two Seattle fans and 8 guys who had money on the Steelers at the SB party I was at..  Everyone of them thought Seattle got grossly jobbed.

It wasn't just the obvious calls, it was also the returns where Seattle would get the ball to the 40 and suddenly there was a marginal hold that would put the ball at the 15.

DESPICABLE

I saw clearly on one of the returns that the reason the return was so good was because of a hold/illegal block.Surely you've watched enough NFL games to see that 1) holding and blocks in the back happen a lot during punt returns, and 2) many long returns are called back due to penalties.

Sorry, but your happy gang of ten aren't the only ones who watched the game and have an opinion on it.

Are you telling me that you thought the game was evenly called?The guys at my SB party were laughing at me every time another call went against Seattle (and most of them hate Seattle because thy're Oakland fans). You're either cross-eyed or a huge homer if you thought nothing was wrong with the officiating in this game. I would rather have had Pittsburg have a dominating performance and crush Seattle than to have had to watch this crap.

I would expect Oakland fans to be much more anti-Steeler than anti-Seahawk given the '70s rivalry. Look, you can read my responses to some of the calls that were claimed to be wrong earlier in this thread. I didn't find anything exceptionally bad except for the "illegal blocking" call on Hasselbeck. You apparently did. So we disagree. What more can I say?

 

[3C's]

I'd love for those that are calling it bad officiating and the Hawks were "jobbed" to post specific examples. The pass interference was just that, pass interference. The holding call on Locklear was just that, holding. The illegal block call on Hass was a bad call. The early whistle on Stevens "no catch" should have been a fumble. The Roethelisburger td was very likely a td. Really hard to tell, but it looks like it was. Hard to overturn that one. What am I missing?

 

[ren hoek]

FWIW, Mike Florio, probably the writer I have the utmost respect for in regards to football, agrees with those who believe Seattle got jobbed.

A sportswriter authors an article that is sure to raise controversy and gain him notoriety. Shocking!

I feel pretty confident in saying that you've clearly never read any of his stuff before, otherwise you'd realize that he's been excellent with getting stories out before the rest of the media.There will probably be about a million other sportswriters 'raising controversy' and 'gaining themselves notoriety' when they take the exact same stance that he does. Again, I'm not saying the Seahawks would have won, but the officiating was truly horrendous in this game.

 

[BGP]

I think the problem I've had with some of the things I've seen you post is that you completely discount anyone that has any semblance of a greater or lesser reaction that you do. It comes off as arrogant.

Explain that a bit further. All my teachers described me as the most open-minded person, willing to consider all kinds of ideas and look at every side of every issue. Heck, (I hate to bring this up but...) the top complaint in the werewolf games I've received is that I consider everyone's else opinion too MUCH, and fail to act on my own.It just sounds like you don't know me well to make a statement like that. I really like to know where you get this view.

 

[tommyboy]

Yes this game has clearly crossed a tolerance threshhold for bad officiating. The outrage I am seeing everywhere I go on the internet is unlike anything I have ever seen for any sporting event ever.

I felt the same way when the Blazers lost to the Lakers in the 7th game of the Western Conference Finals in 2001. It'll pass. In hindsight, the Lakers made plays and the Blazers missed 13 shots in a row in the 4th.similarly in this game, in the 2nd half when the game was in balance, Pittsburgh scored a 75 yrd running play, longest in SB history, overcame a devastating interception in the red zone returned for 50 yards, scored on a 40+ yard option pass by Randel El and closed out the game with 2 crucial first downs by pounding the ball down Seattles throat.

Sure, there were some iffy calls, everyone will agree with that. What rational people will probably also agree on, in the end, this game was decided by the players on the field.

 

[BGP]

Yes this game has clearly crossed a tolerance threshhold for bad officiating. The outrage I am seeing everywhere I go on the internet is unlike anything I have ever seen for any sporting event ever.

I felt the same way when the Blazers lost to the Lakers in the 7th game of the Western Conference Finals in 2001. It'll pass. In hindsight, the Lakers made plays and the Blazers missed 13 shots in a row in the 4th.similarly in this game, in the 2nd half when the game was in balance, Pittsburgh scored a 75 yrd running play, longest in SB history, overcame a devastating interception in the red zone returned for 50 yards, scored on a 40+ yard option pass by Randel El and closed out the game with 2 crucial first downs by pounding the ball down Seattles throat.

Sure, there were some iffy calls, everyone will agree with that. What rational people will probably also agree on, in the end, this game was decided by the players on the field.

On the other hand, I've seen countless products destroyed when public opinion makes a radical change for the worse. I feel it is something to be alarmed with.

 

[The Jerk]

Yes this game has clearly crossed a tolerance threshhold for bad officiating.  The outrage I am seeing everywhere I go on the internet is unlike anything I have ever seen for any sporting event ever.

You're right. If people are posting it on the Internet, it is obviously true, unbiased and reliable.

So, you instead feel the NFL fans were very satisfied with the product put on the field today?

Neither the Steelers, nor the Seahawks, nor the officials were perfect. That's not news. The next game that is played or officiated perfectly will be the first; not just in the NFL, but in any sport. I fail to see the web of deceit, malice and organized conspiracy that people (like you) are implying concerning the officiating in this game.Close calls are made every game, and by definition, if they're close, they can go either way. Let's say there are five close calls in a game, truly 50/50 propositions. The best case is that the officials give three calls to one team and two to another. Is that a conspiracy? What if there are six close calls and four go one way? That's a difference of one call vs. the ideal. Is that a conspiracy?

We can argue for eternity on this, but it's really simple. Some people saw the balance of calls as being against the Seahawks. Others did not. You are part of the first group; I'm in the latter. The biggest problem is that you set yourself up as the sole arbiter of fairness. No one else's opinion matters as much as yours.

 

[tommyboy]

Yes this game has clearly crossed a tolerance threshhold for bad officiating. The outrage I am seeing everywhere I go on the internet is unlike anything I have ever seen for any sporting event ever.

I felt the same way when the Blazers lost to the Lakers in the 7th game of the Western Conference Finals in 2001. It'll pass. In hindsight, the Lakers made plays and the Blazers missed 13 shots in a row in the 4th.similarly in this game, in the 2nd half when the game was in balance, Pittsburgh scored a 75 yrd running play, longest in SB history, overcame a devastating interception in the red zone returned for 50 yards, scored on a 40+ yard option pass by Randel El and closed out the game with 2 crucial first downs by pounding the ball down Seattles throat.

Sure, there were some iffy calls, everyone will agree with that. What rational people will probably also agree on, in the end, this game was decided by the players on the field.

On the other hand, I've seen countless products destroyed when public opinion makes a radical change for the worse. I feel it is something to be alarmed with.

maybe. I'm sorry this outcome bothers you so much. But you'll get over it eventually. In the meantime the NFL will continue to be the premier sport in the US.If theres one team you can really root for, its seattle, they are a first class franchise with first class players. I think they'll be back.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Had 0 interest in the game and didn't care who won.

That was one of the worst officiated games i've seen.

 

[Kleck]

I think the problem I've had with some of the things I've seen you post is that you completely discount anyone that has any semblance of a greater or lesser reaction that you do. It comes off as arrogant.

Explain that a bit further. All my teachers described me as the most open-minded person, willing to consider all kinds of ideas and look at every side of every issue. Heck, (I hate to bring this up but...) the top complaint in the werewolf games I've received is that I consider everyone's else opinion too MUCH, and fail to act on my own.It just sounds like you don't know me well to make a statement like that. I really like to know where you get this view.

When you choose to call any Seattle fan a "loser" if they don't agree with your opinion. That comes off as arrogant.Further, in most of the political threads you come off as cold and uncaring. I don't see you showing respect for people that disagree with you. You tell them they're wrong, and your right. Yes, you have courage of your convictions, but you consistently catch a ton of crap because of it. I think your world is mostly black and white.

 

[The Jerk]

FWIW, Mike Florio, probably the writer I have the utmost respect for in regards to football, agrees with those who believe Seattle got jobbed.

A sportswriter authors an article that is sure to raise controversy and gain him notoriety. Shocking!

I feel pretty confident in saying that you've clearly never read any of his stuff before, otherwise you'd realize that he's been excellent with getting stories out before the rest of the media.There will probably be about a million other sportswriters 'raising controversy' and 'gaining themselves notoriety' when they take the exact same stance that he does. Again, I'm not saying the Seahawks would have won, but the officiating was truly horrendous in this game.

I admit I have only read a few articles by Mike Florio. I'm sure you are much more informed concerning his approach. My comment was more general in nature. I'm really not referring to him alone, but to a whole host of media types who seek to shock rather than inform. I can accept that he may not be that way.I do believe, however, that a large percentage of writers don't share his viewpoint on this game. And no, I won't be reading every article written concerning SB XL to verify this one way or the other. It's my opinion only.

For the record, I'm not better than anyone posting here. I can accept that you and others saw the officiating as unfair to the Seahawks. I hope that same courtesy can be extended to people like me who saw it as not exceptionally unbalanced, if not downright fair.

 

[oukurt]

Biggest travesty in sports since the Don Denkinger World Series in 1985.

So very true.

 

[Jimmy James]

Had 0 interest in the game and didn't care who won.

That was one of the worst officiated games i've seen.

How does it compare to Colts-Steelers from the playoffs in your book?I think this game was poorly worked by the officials, but that game was a travesty.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

FWIW, Mike Florio, probably the writer I have the utmost respect for in regards to football, agrees with those who believe Seattle got jobbed.

A sportswriter authors an article that is sure to raise controversy and gain him notoriety. Shocking!

I feel pretty confident in saying that you've clearly never read any of his stuff before, otherwise you'd realize that he's been excellent with getting stories out before the rest of the media.There will probably be about a million other sportswriters 'raising controversy' and 'gaining themselves notoriety' when they take the exact same stance that he does. Again, I'm not saying the Seahawks would have won, but the officiating was truly horrendous in this game.

I admit I have only read a few articles by Mike Florio. I'm sure you are much more informed concerning his approach. My comment was more general in nature. I'm really not referring to him alone, but to a whole host of media types who seek to shock rather than inform. I can accept that he may not be that way.I do believe, however, that a large percentage of writers don't share his viewpoint on this game. And no, I won't be reading every article written concerning SB XL to verify this one way or the other. It's my opinion only.

For the record, I'm not better than anyone posting here. I can accept that you and others saw the officiating as unfair to the Seahawks. I hope that same courtesy can be extended to people like me who saw it as not exceptionally unbalanced, if not downright fair.

I believe you to be a good poster, and I believe you to have good insight in most cases. It's difficult for me to respect your opinion on this game when it just seemed so obvious (I really think you need to watch a replay of this game).It's almost like having someone say, "I hope you can respect my opinion that Polamolu (spelling) didn't intercept Mannings pass" despite being shown the replay a dozen times and having the NFL rule book read to them. It's just hard to take that person's opinion at face value when it seems so obvious.

 

[ren hoek]

FWIW, Mike Florio, probably the writer I have the utmost respect for in regards to football, agrees with those who believe Seattle got jobbed.

A sportswriter authors an article that is sure to raise controversy and gain him notoriety. Shocking!

I feel pretty confident in saying that you've clearly never read any of his stuff before, otherwise you'd realize that he's been excellent with getting stories out before the rest of the media.There will probably be about a million other sportswriters 'raising controversy' and 'gaining themselves notoriety' when they take the exact same stance that he does. Again, I'm not saying the Seahawks would have won, but the officiating was truly horrendous in this game.

I admit I have only read a few articles by Mike Florio. I'm sure you are much more informed concerning his approach. My comment was more general in nature. I'm really not referring to him alone, but to a whole host of media types who seek to shock rather than inform. I can accept that he may not be that way.I do believe, however, that a large percentage of writers don't share his viewpoint on this game. And no, I won't be reading every article written concerning SB XL to verify this one way or the other. It's my opinion only.

For the record, I'm not better than anyone posting here. I can accept that you and others saw the officiating as unfair to the Seahawks. I hope that same courtesy can be extended to people like me who saw it as not exceptionally unbalanced, if not downright fair.

I appreciate your civility, and I agree that your point of view is valid. I just think that brushing him off as some sort of sensationalist is really unfair, but it doesn't look like you were referring to him specifically.Honestly, I can't imagine someone watching this game and not being shocked at some of the calls that went the Steelers way. The illegal Hasselbeck "block" versus the Roethlisberger block on the Randle El TD pass stand out to me as the most egregious examples of the referees calling an unfair game. There's an awful lot of outrage from an awful lot of people with no vested interest in this game to just say "it was more or less totally balanced". Looks like we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Oaktown]

There were a couple of questionable calls...but the Seahawks lost this game themselves......not because of the officials. They made so many awful mistakes and their 2 minute drill was a joke.

No ref made Boulware take one of the worst lines I have ever seen to Parker on the TD. No ref made the entire team bite on the Randle El TD pass. They lost the game on those 2 plays...both of which had nothing to do with the refs.

Great teams dont let a couple calls by the refs make them lose games. Seattle was far from a great team today. Piss was too...but they made the big plays that made the diff.....Both AWFUL plays by the Sea D...plain and simple.

 

[Oaktown]

FWIW, Mike Florio, probably the writer I have the utmost respect for in regards to football, agrees with those who believe Seattle got jobbed.

A sportswriter authors an article that is sure to raise controversy and gain him notoriety. Shocking!

I feel pretty confident in saying that you've clearly never read any of his stuff before, otherwise you'd realize that he's been excellent with getting stories out before the rest of the media.There will probably be about a million other sportswriters 'raising controversy' and 'gaining themselves notoriety' when they take the exact same stance that he does. Again, I'm not saying the Seahawks would have won, but the officiating was truly horrendous in this game.

I admit I have only read a few articles by Mike Florio. I'm sure you are much more informed concerning his approach. My comment was more general in nature. I'm really not referring to him alone, but to a whole host of media types who seek to shock rather than inform. I can accept that he may not be that way.I do believe, however, that a large percentage of writers don't share his viewpoint on this game. And no, I won't be reading every article written concerning SB XL to verify this one way or the other. It's my opinion only.

For the record, I'm not better than anyone posting here. I can accept that you and others saw the officiating as unfair to the Seahawks. I hope that same courtesy can be extended to people like me who saw it as not exceptionally unbalanced, if not downright fair.

I appreciate your civility, and I agree that your point of view is valid. I just think that brushing him off as some sort of sensationalist is really unfair, but it doesn't look like you were referring to him specifically.Honestly, I can't imagine someone watching this game and not being shocked at some of the calls that went the Steelers way. The illegal Hasselbeck "block" versus the Roethlisberger block on the Randle El TD pass stand out to me as the most egregious examples of the referees calling an unfair game. There's an awful lot of outrage from an awful lot of people with no vested interest in this game to just say "it was more or less totally balanced". Looks like we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

How the heck do you compare those blocks??? One was on a change of possession play..the rules are VERY clearly different on change of possession plays....No comparison at all allowed between those two plays. Zero.

 

[The Jerk]

The only consensus we might find on this thread is that we all wish the officials had been less noticeable in this game.

This might be obvious, but it needs to be pointed out that sometimes the call really is close. If Jackson pushes harder or not at all, no question about the PI call. If Ben is untouched into the endzone, no question it's a TD. If the holding calls some have questioned happen on incompletions, there's no controversy. The fact is, of course, that these plays did happen, they were close calls, and they impacted the game. It's not the first time or the last time this will happen, but it is unfortunate.

What's interesting is that everyone wants a close Super Bowl, but it's only in a close Super Bowl where officiating calls can be argued to have made a difference.

 

[Jimmy James]

The only consensus we might find on this thread is that we all wish the officials had been less noticeable in this game.

Nice work there. You may have a future in politics with those consensus building skills.

What's interesting is that everyone wants a close Super Bowl, but it's only in a close Super Bowl where officiating calls can be argued to have made a difference.

Does an 11 point game even count as a close Super Bowl? I think the score is probably the single biggest argument for the line of reasoning that the officials didn't lose the game for the 'hawks.

 

[massraider]

I am sure I am repeating someone else, if not a bunch of folks, but aside from the penalty on Hass, I never really gave the refs much thought during the game.

A bad holding call? Hey, those happen every game. Let's not forget that the Steelers were victims of much, much worse officiating a few weeks ago, but overcame that to win.

I might be more receptive to this argument if I didn't see the Hawks squander opportunity after opportunity in that game. Jeremy Stevens alone had a bigger impact on that game than the officials.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I am sure I am repeating someone else, if not a bunch of folks, but aside from the penalty on Hass, I never really gave the refs much thought during the game.

A bad holding call? Hey, those happen every game. Let's not forget that the Steelers were victims of much, much worse officiating a few weeks ago, but overcame that to win.

I might be more receptive to this argument if I didn't see the Hawks squander opportunity after opportunity in that game. Jeremy Stevens alone had a bigger impact on that game than the officials.

Ssssssssssssssssssh!!!Blaming the refs is so much more fun!

Not everyone blames the refs. The ones who do are just a lot more vocal about it.

 

[The Jerk]

I believe you to be a good poster, and I believe you to have good insight in most cases. It's difficult for me to respect your opinion on this game when it just seemed so obvious (I really think you need to watch a replay of this game).

It's almost like having someone say, "I hope you can respect my opinion that Polamolu (spelling) didn't intercept Mannings pass" despite being shown the replay a dozen times and having the NFL rule book read to them. It's just hard to take that person's opinion at face value when it seems so obvious.

Thanks Chaz. I am going to watch the game again. Maybe I'll be back to discuss, maybe not. I can only say that what seems obvious to some is not obvious to all. This is hardly the first time people see the same thing differently.There's no way I will claim perfect objectivity as I am a Steeler fan. But before you discount everything I say, I think you can be a fan of a team without being a homer. By no means am I claiming the Steelers didn't get any breaks from the officials. I told my wife the Steelers got one immediately after the refs called that ridiculous penalty on Hasselbeck. And I called the Herndon interception before the play (in other words, I'm a pessimistic fan as I watch the games, not a rowdy "Steelers rule and everyone else stinks" fan).

But the most common complaints I've read are:

1. D Jax offensive PI

2. Ben's TD

3. holding on the pass to Stevens to the 2 yard line

1. I have seen similar plays called offensive PI many times. I also have often seen it ignored. I'd call it 50/50. Either way, I think the official gets grief. Throwing the flag, the Seahawks feel jobbed. Don't throw it, the Steelers feel jobbed. But does that make it a bad call or a close call.

2. The goal line replay shows Ben touching the very front portion of the goal line, plain and simple. I don't think there's any doubt. I think replay would have oveturned the call if Ben had been ruled down. However, I will admit that we'll never know if the replay booth would have actually called down to have it reviewed since it was inside two minutes of the half. Sorry, I don't see a bad call here at all.

3. Repeat of #1. I have seen similar armlocks called holding penalties many times. In fact, I think it's more like 2/3 of the time that play gets called holding, while 1/3 of the time it is let go. As I watched the game, I thought Haggans was going to get the sack. He had the advantage. Then he just got pulled down. Again, there have no doubt been times where the official has not made that call, but it's hardly an outrage.

So, call me a homer if you want, but I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure it wasn't just Steelers fans who saw each of these plays the same as I did.

 

[The Jerk]

Nice work there. You may have a future in politics with those consensus building skills.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[Black Sunday]

I want to address the "bad calls." First, I'm a Steeler fan, and while watching the game, I did not get the impression that any of these were bad calls, with the exception of the Hass low block. After seeing all of the hooplah about the officiating, I got to second guessing the officiating. I Tivo'd the game, and just got through watching it a 2nd time, taking time to enjoy the good commercials, and scrutinizing the "bad calls." I tried to be as objective as possible, considering the circumstances, and I challenge any nay sayers to review the plays in question and come up with a different interpretation.

1st bad call - offensive pass interference on Jackson

This was clearly offensive pass interference. Jackson and Taylor(?) were both running in the same direction, with Taylor in front. They both came to a stop, with Jackson having his hand clearly on the DB. No penalty yet. Jackson clearly shoved DB while changing direction to create separation. I say clearly because after review on Tivo, the DB very clearly was shoved about 1 foot backwards. He was leaning towards Jackson before the shove, and after the shove, he had to hop backwards with both feet to keep his balance.

As for the delayed call by the official, well, there was no delay. The official went for his flag and missed, so he had to go back for it a second time, hence the appearance of a delayed penalty. The flag was coming out no matter what. It just took him two tries to get it out.

Conclusion - good call.

2nd bad call - Roethisberger TD

This one was very, very close. Darn near impossible to tell 100% for sure if the ball was in our out. The ball was somewhat obscured by Ben's arm, but you could get a pretty rough idea of where the ball was. Ben's arm was clearly over the line, but you can't really tell if the ball crossed or not, but if I have to make a ruling, I would say that yes, it crossed. Again, I'm trying to be as objective as I can. This one was close.

As for the official coming in to spot the ball and then signalling touchdown? I don't have any clear answers for this, except to say that when he started running in, he had his right arm straight up, with his fingers pointing up. He definitely was NOT signalling with a closed fist, which would indicate 4th down. I don't know what it means, but it's not a 4th down signal. It also looked like he might have pointed to something in the back of the end zone, like maybe he was looking for verification from another official before he made his call, but then again, maybe not. I don't know.

conclusion - hard to say, but in the absense of any firm evidence, I'm willing to go with the official who had his eyes on the play.

3rd bad call - Steven's fumble

I think this was a bad call. This appeared to be a fumble to me, but was blown dead as an incomplete pass. I don't know how this could be construed as a bad call in favor of the Steelers, though. Had it been ruled a fumble, the Steelers would have recovered. The ball ended up going out of bounds, but after review, there was plenty of time for one of the nearby steelers to recover the ball before it went out of bounds had it not been whistled dead.

conclusion - bad call benefitting Seattle

4th bad call - Hasselbeck tackle

This one, to me, was clearly a bad call. BUT, it seems to me that there is some stupid rule that says after an interception, you cannot tackle the ball carrier low, like Hasselbeck did. I tried to look it up, but couldn't come up with anything. I think this happened to Pittsburgh sometime this year and it ticked me off, but ultimately, the correct ruling was made. Anyone have any insight into this rule? Heck, maybe I'm stretching a bit here, which is why until a clarification of this rule can be made, I'm willing to call this a bad call.

conclusion - bad call benefitting Pittsburgh

5th bad call - phantom holding call

Haggans came in from the right, and the OL used his right arm agains Haggan's right shoulder, legally, to block. Haggans continued past the OL. Once he was past, the OL was clearly holding Haggans right shoulder from behind. Haggan's was clearly moving towards Hasselbeck and the only thing slowing him down was the OL, from behind. Madden is an idiot.

conclusion - good call

Overall conclusion - Yes, there were some bad calls, but nothing extraordinarily bad, and nothing that you don't see in any other game.

Take this for what it's worth, but I think anyone taking a second look at these plays will agree with my conclusions.

**editted to add the "phantom holding call"**

 

[The Jerk]

1st bad call - offensive pass interference on Jackson

This was clearly offensive pass interference. Jackson and Taylor(?)

Black Sunday, it was Chris Hope who was actually with Jackson on this play.

As for the official coming in to spot the ball and then signalling touchdown? I don't have any clear answers for this, except to say that when he started running in, he had his right arm straight up, with his fingers pointing up. He definitely was NOT signalling with a closed fist, which would indicate 4th down. I don't know what it means, but it's not a 4th down signal. It also looked like he might have pointed to something in the back of the end zone, like maybe he was looking for verification from another official before he made his call, but then again, maybe not. I don't know.

I'm pretty sure it was the same signal you usually see when they are signaling the play is over and the ball is being spotted on the field. He took a few strides toward the pile before signaling the TD. Again, not the first time I've ever seen a ref move in closer before signaling a score. I'm not sure why it's not OK for an official to pause briefly before making a call of any type, but especially when there are bodies flying through the air that may be temporarily obscuring part of their view. Of course, the conclusion people make is that the fix is in, not that the referee is trying to get it right and be sure of his call before it is made.More importantly, the replay looks like the correct call was made, so I don't understand the problem, either.

 

[Assani Fisher]

My complaint is about those people who truly believe in their heart that the refs cost the Seahawks the title and refuse to say it publically because it is easier not to do so.  That is not classy.  Looking at the polls, the overwhelming majority of football fans feel that way.  Its become a legitimate point and people should feel free to make it.

I bet you anything that there are many in the Steelers organization itself that feel this way too.  If the NFL doesn't want a major PR mightmare on its hands, those people better be free to voice their feelings.  Otherwise, with today's fan, I think it will permanently damage the game.

Didn't you say this in your locked thread already?

Well I'll add that the NFL has to do something here and something big. There's just been far too many bad calls in general lately. Either a major revamp of the referee crews, or getting rid of instant replay in its current form, or something. This was bad news for the NFL and they need to get on top of it.

They don't have to do a bloody thing...it was a game officiated by human beings. Some mistakes were made, but it certainly wasn't the worst game that i've ever seen, and I have no doubt that the officials called each and every call exactly the way that they saw them.If you're implying that the game was fixed, say it, if you're not, get off of your high horse and get over it. The team that made the most of it's opportunities won the game today, the officials didn't win or lose the game for either team.

I disagree with the bolded part, and judging by the poll, I think most people here do as well. I think Seattle clearly outplayed them. I think the Steelers won because of the refs.

 

[Assani Fisher]

And I TIVO'd Bens run a million times. You idiots dont realize he only has to cross the front of the white line, not the back. Clearly a TD. So again.

a TD?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Outstretching an arm against a DB is the very definition of PI. Could it not have been called? Sure. But dont say it was an awful call. The Steelers beat Indy with an awful call. You cannot blame a game on the refs.

why not?

 

[Assani Fisher]

It most certainly was....do you know what a pick is....madden called it as well

it was legal. You don't happen to be a Steelers fan?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Stevens TD was the result of a Pick, an illegal pick....... not as teeny tiny pick......a huge penalty flag inducing pick.

No it wasn't.

Looked borderline to me. Just like a lot of borderline calls that went against Seattle.

A pick's only illegal when the picker actually runs into the target of the pick. From what I remember, the WR never made contact with Polamalu. No contact = no pick.

exactly...LOL at thinking that it can be a penalty when there is NO CONTACT AT ALL.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I find it odd how people assume that Alexander would have certainly scored from the 2 following the Stevens catch to the 2 yard line, but it wasn't a certainty that Bettis or Rothlisberger would have scored on 4th and inches if Big Ben had been marked short.

4th and goal is a bit different than 1st and goal, no?And who is to say that PIt would even go for it? After being stopped on 3 straight plays, their confidence couldn't have been that high.

 

[Assani Fisher]

What a bunch of whiners... Blaming the refs? C'mon!!! The Seahawks made ONE play tonight, which was the interception at the goal line. Had that interception not happened, I'd not be responding to this thread.

The better team won. They played like crap, but they still won.

I thought the officiating was rather good tonight. Cry all you want about holding calls, but they weren't bad calls. DJax also pushed off. Had the calls went the other way, we'd be reading 1000 posts from Steeler fans about the refs. Bottom line - it's hard to accept defeat, and you look for anything to make you feel better. Be happy you were in the game, and be happy Pittsburgh didn't play well, or it could have been 41-21.

You do realize that the majority of people "whining" are not fans of either team, right?I thought that Seattle was clearly the better team tonight....Hasselbeck has more than double the passing yardage of Big Ben, SA had more rushing yardage than FWP, and Pit turned the ball over more.....the only category that PItt won in was key penalties!

 

[Assani Fisher]

This is a truly entertaining thread.

Fact is this one will always have an * by it.Deep down inside you know you the majority of us are right. I can't stand either team but still wanted to see a good game. What I saw was a travesty.

I feel for ya Hawks fans. You deserved better.

I couldn't disagree more. The PI call and the holding call were both clear, and I've watched both plays around 10 times. I've posted enough on them.

Ok, lets try to be rational here for a second. The following are facts:1. There are maybe 5 or so Seahawks fans on this board.

2. The majority of posters in this thread have said that they had no rooting interest in this game.

3. Nearly 2/3 of the people in the poll voted that the refs decided the game.

How do you explain this? Don't you think its just a tad bit possible that you, as a Steelers fan, are a little more biased than the people who didn't care who won?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Had 0 interest in the game and didn't care who won.

That was one of the worst officiated games i've seen.

This has to be at least the 10th person to have said this(probably more).

 

[Assani Fisher]

I am sure I am repeating someone else, if not a bunch of folks, but aside from the penalty on Hass, I never really gave the refs much thought during the game.

A bad holding call?  Hey, those happen every game.  Let's not forget that the Steelers were victims of much, much worse officiating a few weeks ago, but overcame that to win.

I might be more receptive to this argument if I didn't see the Hawks squander opportunity after opportunity in that game.  Jeremy Stevens alone had a bigger impact on that game than the officials.

Ssssssssssssssssssh!!!Blaming the refs is so much more fun!

Not everyone blames the refs. The ones who do are just a lot more vocal about it.

poll results down?

 

[Assani Fisher]

I want to address the "bad calls." First, I'm a Steeler fan, and while watching the game, I did not get the impression that any of these were bad calls, with the exception of the Hass low block. After seeing all of the hooplah about the officiating, I got to second guessing the officiating. I Tivo'd the game, and just got through watching it a 2nd time, taking time to enjoy the good commercials, and scrutinizing the "bad calls." I tried to be as objective as possible, considering the circumstances, and I challenge any nay sayers to review the plays in question and come up with a different interpretation.

1st bad call - offensive pass interference on Jackson

This was clearly offensive pass interference. Jackson and Taylor(?) were both running in the same direction, with Taylor in front. They both came to a stop, with Jackson having his hand clearly on the DB. No penalty yet. Jackson clearly shoved DB while changing direction to create separation. I say clearly because after review on Tivo, the DB very clearly was shoved about 1 foot backwards. He was leaning towards Jackson before the shove, and after the shove, he had to hop backwards with both feet to keep his balance.

As for the delayed call by the official, well, there was no delay. The official went for his flag and missed, so he had to go back for it a second time, hence the appearance of a delayed penalty. The flag was coming out no matter what. It just took him two tries to get it out.

Conclusion - good call.

2nd bad call - Roethisberger TD

This one was very, very close. Darn near impossible to tell 100% for sure if the ball was in our out. The ball was somewhat obscured by Ben's arm, but you could get a pretty rough idea of where the ball was. Ben's arm was clearly over the line, but you can't really tell if the ball crossed or not, but if I have to make a ruling, I would say that yes, it crossed. Again, I'm trying to be as objective as I can. This one was close.

As for the official coming in to spot the ball and then signalling touchdown? I don't have any clear answers for this, except to say that when he started running in, he had his right arm straight up, with his fingers pointing up. He definitely was NOT signalling with a closed fist, which would indicate 4th down. I don't know what it means, but it's not a 4th down signal. It also looked like he might have pointed to something in the back of the end zone, like maybe he was looking for verification from another official before he made his call, but then again, maybe not. I don't know.

conclusion - hard to say, but in the absense of any firm evidence, I'm willing to go with the official who had his eyes on the play.

3rd bad call - Steven's fumble

I think this was a bad call. This appeared to be a fumble to me, but was blown dead as an incomplete pass. I don't know how this could be construed as a bad call in favor of the Steelers, though. Had it been ruled a fumble, the Steelers would have recovered. The ball ended up going out of bounds, but after review, there was plenty of time for one of the nearby steelers to recover the ball before it went out of bounds had it not been whistled dead.

conclusion - bad call benefitting Seattle

4th bad call - Hasselbeck tackle

This one, to me, was clearly a bad call. BUT, it seems to me that there is some stupid rule that says after an interception, you cannot tackle the ball carrier low, like Hasselbeck did. I tried to look it up, but couldn't come up with anything. I think this happened to Pittsburgh sometime this year and it ticked me off, but ultimately, the correct ruling was made. Anyone have any insight into this rule? Heck, maybe I'm stretching a bit here, which is why until a clarification of this rule can be made, I'm willing to call this a bad call.

conclusion - bad call benefitting Pittsburgh

5th bad call - phantom holding call

Haggans came in from the right, and the OL used his right arm agains Haggan's right shoulder, legally, to block. Haggans continued past the OL. Once he was past, the OL was clearly holding Haggans right shoulder from behind. Haggan's was clearly moving towards Hasselbeck and the only thing slowing him down was the OL, from behind. Madden is an idiot.

conclusion - good call

Overall conclusion - Yes, there were some bad calls, but nothing extraordinarily bad, and nothing that you don't see in any other game.

Take this for what it's worth, but I think anyone taking a second look at these plays will agree with my conclusions.

**editted to add the "phantom holding call"**

Fair enough. My take on things:1. DJ PI call: I think that this was a terrible call. I don't think he pushed much at all. I think that this is a bad call...not a terrible one as it was close, but it was the wrong call.

2. Big ben TD: Same as #1. Watching it from the sideline view, I think this was the wrong call. Not terrible, but wrong.

3. fumble: I think this was clealry a bad call.

4. Hasselbeck tackle: terrible call

5. Phantom holding call: This happens on every single play. I don't like the call. Again, not terrible, but a bad call imo.

6. No holding call on PItt TD: If you're going to call #5 then you have to call this. IMO there was more holding on this play than on the other one.

7. Big Ben crossing the line before passing/o-line down field: I think the o-linemen were downfield.

8. DJack TD on the pylon: At the very least I think this should've been reviewed, but I think they got the call right.

9. Spots of the ball: Obviously this is a big subjective since I didn't pay attention to every single spot, but I remember quite a few times thinking that Seattle got bad spots...as I said, this is subjective though.

JMHO. Overall, I'm just disappointed with how this year turned out. Congrats to the Steelers and their fan, though. I'm sure you really don't care how you won, and I'm sure you're loving life right now. Congrats.

 

[Irish]

I don't get the beef with the refs in the Superbowl. Jackson's push off before his TD catch was blatant and on Ben's TD there was no evidence that he didn't make it. The refs could have called holding against Seattle's RT on just about every pass play if they wanted to.

 

[FFCrazy]

Not a fan of either team.

Just hoping to see a good game.

Both teams played pretty crappy.

Officiating was bad, and generally went against the Hawks. Not "fixed", just some really poor and inconsistant calls at crucial times.

Happy for the Bus and Ward.

Sad that two "A" teams showed up and played C minus football.