Concept of buying low (1 Viewer)

[Sweetness_34]

So I see that Pacman Jones was re-instated by the NFL, and all I can think about it is how it is a steal for the Cowboys for a less than 3rd round draft pick. No doubt Pacman is talented and a former 1st rounder who can match up against top WRs and return kicks etc

So, in FF world, we are always looking at buy low candidates. However, the real NFL always seems to have teams let go of these head cases or 1st round busts who get picked up cheap by other teams only to blossom.

History is full of examples like this: See Cris Carter from the 90s; Randy Moss just last year; Corey Dillon etc etc

I would much rather have my team take a few chances every year on these players who are available cheap and have tons of upside; instead of spending millions on FAs. These players have chips on their shoulder to produce as opposed to the FAs who are only looking for a pay day and not really motivated anymore (see SHaun Alexander after his monster contract).

Is the fundamental "buy low/sell high" principle ignored more than it should be in the real NFL?

 

[David Yudkin]

Maybe some NFL teams care about things like character and public relations. I think we will see some interesting things once Michael Vick gets reinstated.

 

[Weiner Dog]

I agree. However, the differences between FF and NFL have to factored.

You reference Pacman...Randy...Corey...etc. These players may post great FF stats, but they could also hurt the acquiring team in the locker room. Bad attitudes can be contagious and, sometimes, the underlying play is not worth it.

 

[Sweetness_34]

I agree. However, the differences between FF and NFL have to factored.You reference Pacman...Randy...Corey...etc. These players may post great FF stats, but they could also hurt the acquiring team in the locker room. Bad attitudes can be contagious and, sometimes, the underlying play is not worth it.

Both Corey Dillon and Randy Moss helped their team to SBs....let's see what Pacman's impact is. Cris Carter helped his team to consistent playoff appearances. So winning is not worth it? Then why bother....Let me add one more buy low player: TO. The entire TO saga from the Eagles was BS. All I heard every one say was that TO would be good for the Cowboys for one year and then blow up.....what happened? How many years are we still waiting for the blow up? Who cares given they have been to the playoffs twice and are legit contenders thanks to TO? TO was another classic buy low case who has helped the Cowboys get out of the miserable Quincy Carter years and made Tony Romo develop into a real QB....

 

[EBF]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Did you have Randy Moss ranked as your WR1 last year?

He could just as easily have turned out like Javon Walker.

Teams get these players at a discount because of the uncertainty factor.

 

[Boston]

I find it much easier to buy low in fantasy football because I don't have to worry about getting calls at 3:00am from the local police department saying one of my players just got arrested with two grams of coke, six handguns and three prostitutes in the back of his Escalade.

 

[comfortably numb]

So I see that Pacman Jones was re-instated by the NFL, and all I can think about it is how it is a steal for the Cowboys for a less than 3rd round draft pick. No doubt Pacman is talented and a former 1st rounder who can match up against top WRs and return kicks etcSo, in FF world, we are always looking at buy low candidates. However, the real NFL always seems to have teams let go of these head cases or 1st round busts who get picked up cheap by other teams only to blossom. History is full of examples like this: See Cris Carter from the 90s; Randy Moss just last year; Corey Dillon etc etcI would much rather have my team take a few chances every year on these players who are available cheap and have tons of upside; instead of spending millions on FAs. These players have chips on their shoulder to produce as opposed to the FAs who are only looking for a pay day and not really motivated anymore (see SHaun Alexander after his monster contract).Is the fundamental "buy low/sell high" principle ignored more than it should be in the real NFL?

Simply putwe are managing statistics, NFL teams are managing people.Buy low comes with a lot more meaning in their world as opposed to ours

 

[Sweetness_34]

Maybe some NFL teams care about things like character and public relations. I think we will see some interesting things once Michael Vick gets reinstated.

Good point. I think Vick is gonna help some team. I would love it if my Bears took a chance on him. One thing everyone forgets about these guys is that these guys realize this is their last chance. Again see TO. I would actually add Chris Henry too.....watch how he takes off from now on.

 

[cjack]

I agree. However, the differences between FF and NFL have to factored.You reference Pacman...Randy...Corey...etc. These players may post great FF stats, but they could also hurt the acquiring team in the locker room. Bad attitudes can be contagious and, sometimes, the underlying play is not worth it.

Both Corey Dillon and Randy Moss helped their team to SBs....let's see what Pacman's impact is. Cris Carter helped his team to consistent playoff appearances. So winning is not worth it? Then why bother....

It's easy to make your argument when you only cite the productive examples. What about guys like Chris Henry or Travis Henry? I'm sure there are many cases of buy low candidates not helping the team and actually doing more harm than good, but you're not going to hear about those guys as much as the Randy Moss's. I agree that it can make sense to look at these buy low guys, but you can't take a chance on every one of them. They're buy low for a reason.

 

[David Yudkin]

Maybe some NFL teams care about things like character and public relations. I think we will see some interesting things once Michael Vick gets reinstated.

Good point. I think Vick is gonna help some team. I would love it if my Bears took a chance on him. One thing everyone forgets about these guys is that these guys realize this is their last chance. Again see TO. I would actually add Chris Henry too.....watch how he takes off from now on.

Vick is still a Falcon, so it will be interesting to see how that will play out.

 

[Sweetness_34]

Hindsight is 20/20.Did you have Randy Moss ranked as your WR1 last year?He could just as easily have turned out like Javon Walker. Teams get these players at a discount because of the uncertainty factor.

WHo cares where I ranked Randy Moss last year? The fact is he was available for a freaking 4th rounder. Do you want me to name all the 4th rounders drafted in the last 10 years and show you how 99% of them are not even half as productive as Randy Moss was last year? If he turned out like Javon Walker, it is easy; you cut him and you lose a freaking 4th rounder. Also, your analogy to Walker is actually proving my point. Walker was NOT a buy low....the Raiders paid him a ridiculous amount. He was a buy high actually. Javon Walker, like Shaun Alexander, are the type of players I do NOT want my team getting as a FA. Cost a lot and come with baggage.

 

[Sweetness_34]

I agree. However, the differences between FF and NFL have to factored.

You reference Pacman...Randy...Corey...etc. These players may post great FF stats, but they could also hurt the acquiring team in the locker room. Bad attitudes can be contagious and, sometimes, the underlying play is not worth it.

Both Corey Dillon and Randy Moss helped their team to SBs....let's see what Pacman's impact is. Cris Carter helped his team to consistent playoff appearances. So winning is not worth it? Then why bother....

It's easy to make your argument when you only cite the productive examples. What about guys like Chris Henry or Travis Henry? I'm sure there are many cases of buy low candidates not helping the team and actually doing more harm than good, but you're not going to hear about those guys as much as the Randy Moss's. I agree that it can make sense to look at these buy low guys, but you can't take a chance on every one of them. They're buy low for a reason.

Thanks for proving my point again. Travis Henry was NOT a buy low.....do you know how much the Broncos paid him as salary? He was like Javon Walker and Shaun Alexander and Edge James your classic example of buy high that I am advocating teams should avoid.

 

[Boston]

I agree. However, the differences between FF and NFL have to factored.You reference Pacman...Randy...Corey...etc. These players may post great FF stats, but they could also hurt the acquiring team in the locker room. Bad attitudes can be contagious and, sometimes, the underlying play is not worth it.

Both Corey Dillon and Randy Moss helped their team to SBs....let's see what Pacman's impact is. Cris Carter helped his team to consistent playoff appearances. So winning is not worth it? Then why bother....Let me add one more buy low player: TO. The entire TO saga from the Eagles was BS. All I heard every one say was that TO would be good for the Cowboys for one year and then blow up.....what happened? How many years are we still waiting for the blow up? Who cares given they have been to the playoffs twice and are legit contenders thanks to TO? TO was another classic buy low case who has helped the Cowboys get out of the miserable Quincy Carter years and made Tony Romo develop into a real QB....

You're assuming all 32 teams are created equal which just isn't the case. Some teams have a veteran locker-room with the leadership to handle a dicey personality or they may have a Coach with the personality to deal with problems or they may simply be in a situation where they're close to a title and the player doesn't want to rock the boat. There are many variables that go into this type of situation being the right fit. A perfect examples is the Patriots. Pre-BB they were a disaster (outside of the Tuna era for the most part) and were a real bad fit for "bad apples." Today with BB and leaders like Brady, Bruschi, Vrabel, Wilfork and Rodney they are able to police themselves so they can roll the dice on players who would most likely have blown up in their faces in a different era.

 

[cjack]

I agree. However, the differences between FF and NFL have to factored.

You reference Pacman...Randy...Corey...etc. These players may post great FF stats, but they could also hurt the acquiring team in the locker room. Bad attitudes can be contagious and, sometimes, the underlying play is not worth it.

Both Corey Dillon and Randy Moss helped their team to SBs....let's see what Pacman's impact is. Cris Carter helped his team to consistent playoff appearances. So winning is not worth it? Then why bother....

It's easy to make your argument when you only cite the productive examples. What about guys like Chris Henry or Travis Henry? I'm sure there are many cases of buy low candidates not helping the team and actually doing more harm than good, but you're not going to hear about those guys as much as the Randy Moss's. I agree that it can make sense to look at these buy low guys, but you can't take a chance on every one of them. They're buy low for a reason.

Thanks for proving my point again. Travis Henry was NOT a buy low.....do you know how much the Broncos paid him as salary? He was like Javon Walker and Shaun Alexander and Edge James your classic example of buy high that I am advocating teams should avoid.

Okay, I didn't study up on Travis Henry's contract status before posting. But, you're ignoring the point. Many buy low candidates come with a lot of baggage that can damage an NFL franchise. Yes, you can just cut them if they don't work out, but you still wasted a 4th round pick or whatever. More importantly, many of these guys are not steady influences on the team and the locker room. Some times they can be reined in, sometimes they can't. Can it make sense? Of course. Can it also hurt your team? Of course. Some teams are willing to take those chances more than others, same as FF. Doesn't mean it's always a good strategy.

 

[Gr00vus]

So I see that Pacman Jones was re-instated by the NFL, and all I can think about it is how it is a steal for the Cowboys for a less than 3rd round draft pick. No doubt Pacman is talented and a former 1st rounder who can match up against top WRs and return kicks etc

Did you happen to notice that the Titans returned to the playoffs last year - the year they pretty much gave up on Jones? Did you notice how well their defense played without him?I noticed in the Charger/Cowboy preseason game that Jones didn't look very good in coverage - he was getting beat by Charger 2nd and 3rd stringers regularly. Maybe he just had an off game, maybe he'll realize his "potential," and he's looked good on some returns, but right now it looks like it was addition by subtraction for the Titans.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Not sure how TO was a buy low guy. The Cowboys gave him a bunch of money to get him and are continuing to give him a ton of money.

And we'll see how PacMan Jones turns out. Even if he stays out of trouble, I'm not sure that he'll be worth it. He's a good returner, but an overated CB. He's not even close to being a shutdown corner.

And while Moss was certainly a buy low to get him, the Patriots are paying him a lot of money now to keep him.

 

[trader jake]

I find it much easier to buy low in fantasy football because I don't have to worry about getting calls at 3:00am from the local police department saying one of my players just got arrested with two grams of coke, six handguns and three prostitutes in the back of his Escalade.

Only three?I agree with the OP. NFL teams overrate mid/late draft picks and undervalue veterans in general...including these "troubled" players. If any of them get out of line with their new team, they get cut. If the locker room was swayed by them during their time there that locker room was fragile to start.

 

[Bankerguy]

So I see that Pacman Jones was re-instated by the NFL, and all I can think about it is how it is a steal for the Cowboys for a less than 3rd round draft pick. No doubt Pacman is talented and a former 1st rounder who can match up against top WRs and return kicks etc

Did you happen to notice that the Titans returned to the playoffs last year - the year they pretty much gave up on Jones? Did you notice how well their defense played without him?I noticed in the Charger/Cowboy preseason game that Jones didn't look very good in coverage - he was getting beat by Charger 2nd and 3rd stringers regularly. Maybe he just had an off game, maybe he'll realize his "potential," and he's looked good on some returns, but right now it looks like it was addition by subtraction for the Titans.

Agreed he looked bad as it was his first game in over a year. However, he has improved each week and has looked great on his returns. That is when he's not spiking the ball and grabbing 15 yard laundry...lol. He will be the nickel CB and take Newman's side of the field. Newman will take the slot WR. Jones is a MONSTER upgrade for the Cowboys over Jacques Reeves last year and should help shore up the coverage in the secondary.For a 4th rounder. Great trade.

 

[DawnBTVS]

I'm curious to see how this affects Atlanta.

They largely got rid of players who were supposedly character distractions following the Vick fiasco (DeAngelo Hall, Alge Crumpler, Warrick Dunn) and all three are considered valuable additions to their new teams (as well as good players in general).

As was mentioned earlier, a few bad apples can easily pull apart a locker room, especially if there is a divide between players at a certain position (See most QB battles and players siding with the veteran as opposed to the rookie or vice versa).

 

[Gr00vus]

For a 4th rounder. Great trade.

Everything you've said I agree with. But it's early yet. He doesn't strike me as the brightest of bulbs, and dumping what's amounting to a return guy and a nickel back for a 4th rounder. Look at it from the Titans' perspective - were they getting better offers elsewhere? At the point you decide he's not working out, what else can you do? Just keep paying the guy hoping he turns it around and doesn't mess up the locker room too much?The flip side of this is Chris Henry in Cincy right? They keep bringing the problem child back and so far it hasn't really paid off. I guess we'll get yet another chance to see what happens when you play it the other way.

 

[trader jake]

I'm curious to see how this affects Atlanta.They largely got rid of players who were supposedly character distractions following the Vick fiasco (DeAngelo Hall, Alge Crumpler, Warrick Dunn) and all three are considered valuable additions to their new teams (as well as good players in general).As was mentioned earlier, a few bad apples can easily pull apart a locker room, especially if there is a divide between players at a certain position (See most QB battles and players siding with the veteran as opposed to the rookie or vice versa).

What? I understand your main point, and I agree, except for the Warrick Dunn part. That guy is huge in the locker room and from all accounts is one of the best guys ever.

 

[Bankerguy]

For a 4th rounder. Great trade.

Everything you've said I agree with. But it's early yet. He doesn't strike me as the brightest of bulbs, and dumping what's amounting to a return guy and a nickel back for a 4th rounder. Look at it from the Titans' perspective - were they getting better offers elsewhere? At the point you decide he's not working out, what else can you do? Just keep paying the guy hoping he turns it around and doesn't mess up the locker room too much?The flip side of this is Chris Henry in Cincy right? They keep bringing the problem child back and so far it hasn't really paid off. I guess we'll get yet another chance to see what happens when you play it the other way.

Most 4th rounders are not going to make the Cowboys 53 man roster anyway. You have to remember that too.We are both making good points and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Ultimately though I have to say the risk/reward looks about right to me.

 

[Gr00vus]

Most 4th rounders are not going to make the Cowboys 53 man roster anyway. You have to remember that too.We are both making good points and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Ultimately though I have to say the risk/reward looks about right to me.

That's my point - I think it was a win/win for both teams. I'm not seeing a sell low here. Dallas can afford the risk, the Titans didn't need to pay for the headache and got something back rather than just releasing him.It's interesting that this thread shows up after Jones gets reinstated - not when the trade was originally made.

 

[Lord Lucan]

Also, when we draft a fantasy player, he doesn't have to fit into our offensive system; we just take his raw stats, so if he blows out, that doesn't impact the rest of our team.

Contrast that with, say Moss and Owens. I don't think Welker would have been anywhere near as effective last year if Moss had been in his Oakland mood, and McNabb's stats the year Owens performed in Philadelphia were light years away from his other recent numbers.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Yes, someone mentioned the Patriots and they are the model for success in the NFL. Steelers have a good track record as well and I think started the model in the 90's (which the Pats took to a whole other level of perfection).

Strictly talking veteran NFL's here, the secret is finding guys who's performance projection for future year(s) is lower than current market value, and vice versa....not resigning mid-career/late career veterans whos better years have just occurred and not signing them for the high pricetag they are commanding and their future performance won't match the $$$.

Snyder and Al Davis are probably the 2 worst at this. Jerry Jones a close 3rd.

 

[Bankerguy]

Yes, someone mentioned the Patriots and they are the model for success in the NFL. Steelers have a good track record as well and I think started the model in the 90's (which the Pats took to a whole other level of perfection).Strictly talking veteran NFL's here, the secret is finding guys who's performance projection for future year(s) is lower than current market value, and vice versa....not resigning mid-career/late career veterans whos better years have just occurred and not signing them for the high pricetag they are commanding and their future performance won't match the $$$.Snyder and Al Davis are probably the 2 worst at this. Jerry Jones a close 3rd.

Jerry is one of best at this...not the worst.Give some recent examples of this?

 

[Restricted]

Over paid, under producing, locker room distracting, media bad talking, holding out, drug using, wife beating, dog fighting un-retiring players are often not worth the headaches. With all the money involved, it's best to do a "get what you can" for player.

Selling high in the NFL is damn near impossible today thanks to Dallas, Minnesota and the great Hershel Walker deal that gave Dallas multiple championships and tanked Minnesota for years.

 

[trader jake]

Selling high in the NFL is damn near impossible today thanks to Dallas, Minnesota and the great Hershel Walker deal that gave Dallas multiple championships and tanked Minnesota for years.

To be fair it probably has more to do with the salary cap ramifications of trading a star player now.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I find it much easier to buy low in fantasy football because I don't have to worry about getting calls at 3:00am from the local police department saying one of my players just got arrested with two grams of coke, six handguns and three prostitutes in the back of his Escalade.

Only three?I agree with the OP. NFL teams overrate mid/late draft picks and undervalue veterans in general...including these "troubled" players. If any of them get out of line with their new team, they get cut. If the locker room was swayed by them during their time there that locker room was fragile to start.

I'm not really sure that they are undervalued. Would it really have been worth a 2nd round pick for the Cowboys to trade for Jones? I don't think it would have been.The problem for teams is that they're not only giving up a draft pick, but often times having to shell out all sorts of new money for these guys too.

 

[Synthesizer]

If you owned a coffee shop, would you hire a thug that just got done serving jail time? Even if he can make a damn fine coffee, I'd assume you'd pass on him and let the coffee shop down the road take the chance.

 

[comfortably numb]

If you owned a coffee shop, would you hire a thug that just got done serving jail time? Even if he can make a damn fine coffee, I'd assume you'd pass on him and let the coffee shop down the road take the chance.

i think I woud take a chance if it were Juan Valdez

 

[teamroc]

So I see that Pacman Jones was re-instated by the NFL, and all I can think about it is how it is a steal for the Cowboys for a less than 3rd round draft pick. No doubt Pacman is talented and a former 1st rounder who can match up against top WRs and return kicks etcSo, in FF world, we are always looking at buy low candidates. However, the real NFL always seems to have teams let go of these head cases or 1st round busts who get picked up cheap by other teams only to blossom. History is full of examples like this: See Cris Carter from the 90s; Randy Moss just last year; Corey Dillon etc etcI would much rather have my team take a few chances every year on these players who are available cheap and have tons of upside; instead of spending millions on FAs. These players have chips on their shoulder to produce as opposed to the FAs who are only looking for a pay day and not really motivated anymore (see SHaun Alexander after his monster contract).Is the fundamental "buy low/sell high" principle ignored more than it should be in the real NFL?

and the team who built thru the draft, beat the team who got randy moss and all his tds.it's a team game. no one likes to be on the same team with a cancer. it splits the team. its a headache. check out the bengals. check out the raiders.the pats pick their spots. but they have a VERY strong organization. very strong staff. with lots of RINGs. the pats have also cut guys very quickly. they don't put up with much. you can't just be tossing out 2-3-4 draft picks every offseason on fliers. the gaints won the sb largely due to the draft. you can have a ff team with to, moss, chad johnson but in the real world if would never work. so no, the guys running billion dollar teams, don't need any lessons on "buying low". this stuff is a tad more advanced then you running your dynasty squad. the mighty cowboys have done well with collecting malcontents, so well its won them 0 playoff games. character and team sorta matter.

 

[teamroc]

Yes, someone mentioned the Patriots and they are the model for success in the NFL. Steelers have a good track record as well and I think started the model in the 90's (which the Pats took to a whole other level of perfection).Strictly talking veteran NFL's here, the secret is finding guys who's performance projection for future year(s) is lower than current market value, and vice versa....not resigning mid-career/late career veterans whos better years have just occurred and not signing them for the high pricetag they are commanding and their future performance won't match the $$$.Snyder and Al Davis are probably the 2 worst at this. Jerry Jones a close 3rd.

Jerry is one of best at this...not the worst.Give some recent examples of this?

jerry jones? whens the last time he won a playoff game?jerry had alot less to do with his dynasty, then the other jj did. jerry jones largely got in the way. then realized he was an idiot, and hired parcells to run things. then wanted to go back him being the man, so he hired lame duck wade. jj is more concerned about entertaining himself, then letting real football people run the team. al davis has a better playoff track record the last 10 years then jj does. last time jj won a playoff game, we didn't have the internet. again, how many playoff wins in the last 10 years? zero? one of the best "owners/gms" in the game, has no playoff wins in the last 12 years? seems like the pats/colts win a playoff game almost every year. 12 years?

 

[baconisgood]

Hindsight is 20/20.Did you have Randy Moss ranked as your WR1 last year?He could just as easily have turned out like Javon Walker. Teams get these players at a discount because of the uncertainty factor.

WHo cares where I ranked Randy Moss last year? The fact is he was available for a freaking 4th rounder.

He was NOT available for a 'freaking fourth rounder' to every team in the league, he restructured his deal with the Patriots. He didn't have to do that so he could essentially pick his situation by refusing to restructure (iirc he was due 8 million before the restructure). Basically the teams that could get him were ones with cap space to absorb the new contract, a need (why would the Colts risk a fiasco with the WRs on their team), a coaching staff who would put up with the circus that came with it and a good enough situation for Randy to agree to. This limited the bidders to a couple of teams at best.

 

[Gr00vus]

Also we only tend to remember the hits.

Seems like there are a lot more Lawrence Phillips, Maurice Claretts, Freddy Mitchells, Jeremy Stevens, Ryan Leafs etc. than there are Cris Carters, etc.

How are the Seahawks feeling about that Deion Branch for a 1st rounder deal right about now?

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Yes, someone mentioned the Patriots and they are the model for success in the NFL. Steelers have a good track record as well and I think started the model in the 90's (which the Pats took to a whole other level of perfection).Strictly talking veteran NFL's here, the secret is finding guys who's performance projection for future year(s) is lower than current market value, and vice versa....not resigning mid-career/late career veterans whos better years have just occurred and not signing them for the high pricetag they are commanding and their future performance won't match the $$$.Snyder and Al Davis are probably the 2 worst at this. Jerry Jones a close 3rd.

Jerry is one of best at this...not the worst.Give some recent examples of this?

jerry jones? whens the last time he won a playoff game?jerry had alot less to do with his dynasty, then the other jj did. jerry jones largely got in the way. then realized he was an idiot, and hired parcells to run things. then wanted to go back him being the man, so he hired lame duck wade. jj is more concerned about entertaining himself, then letting real football people run the team. al davis has a better playoff track record the last 10 years then jj does. last time jj won a playoff game, we didn't have the internet. again, how many playoff wins in the last 10 years? zero? one of the best "owners/gms" in the game, has no playoff wins in the last 12 years? seems like the pats/colts win a playoff game almost every year. 12 years?

Actually I am still in shock at how many wins Wade got Dallas last year. True colors showed in the playoffs, but I thought for sure Dallas would be 7-9 under Wade. Jones seems to fluctuate coaches between the patsies (Phillips / Gailey) and prima-donas (Jimmy Johnson/Parcells)...and sometime throws in your good ol' boy redneck idiot coach just to have a hunting/fishing buddy (Barry Switzer).

 

[teamroc]

Hindsight is 20/20.Did you have Randy Moss ranked as your WR1 last year?He could just as easily have turned out like Javon Walker. Teams get these players at a discount because of the uncertainty factor.

WHo cares where I ranked Randy Moss last year? The fact is he was available for a freaking 4th rounder.

He was NOT available for a 'freaking fourth rounder' to every team in the league, he restructured his deal with the Patriots. He didn't have to do that so he could essentially pick his situation by refusing to restructure (iirc he was due 8 million before the restructure). Basically the teams that could get him were ones with cap space to absorb the new contract, a need (why would the Colts risk a fiasco with the WRs on their team), a coaching staff who would put up with the circus that came with it and a good enough situation for Randy to agree to. This limited the bidders to a couple of teams at best.

And for a 4th rounder, you coulda had a pile of headache.Moss wasn't going to put up 23 TDs with any team in the league. He wouldn't have been an uber stud on any team in the league. Not to mention Randy basically had veto power, because he'd refuse to rework his deal. No one wanted his big salary after him tanking it with the Raiders.It's common for drunk fans to lament how "man the browns coulda had moss for a 4th!". Well, not really. As with most things in life, it's a little more complicated then "we coulda done that deal" and "teams just need to buy low".

 

[Balance]

when i think about an nfl team "buying low" i hear "future holdout."

 

[JamesTheScot]

I agree. However, the differences between FF and NFL have to factored.

You reference Pacman...Randy...Corey...etc. These players may post great FF stats, but they could also hurt the acquiring team in the locker room. Bad attitudes can be contagious and, sometimes, the underlying play is not worth it.

Both Corey Dillon and Randy Moss helped their team to SBs....let's see what Pacman's impact is. Cris Carter helped his team to consistent playoff appearances. So winning is not worth it? Then why bother....Let me add one more buy low player: TO. The entire TO saga from the Eagles was BS. All I heard every one say was that TO would be good for the Cowboys for one year and then blow up.....what happened? How many years are we still waiting for the blow up? Who cares given they have been to the playoffs twice and are legit contenders thanks to TO?

TO was another classic buy low case who has helped the Cowboys get out of the miserable Quincy Carter years and made Tony Romo develop into a real QB....

It's not as simple as you paint it.Chris Carter was a druggie early in his career. He performed at a high level after he got clean. Him being cut was a catalyst for him deciding to get clean. How long would you continue to employ a druggie for hundreds of thousands of dollars with the hope that with nothing changing around them they will one day decide to clean up and perform up to their ability? Not long at all. How often does a druggie decide to get clean without something happening to scare the $--t out of them? Not that often.

Much of NFL players' performance is mental focus and commitment. Moss played like $--t in Oakland and his attitude sucked. How long did Oakland need to hang on to him hoping his attitude would finally come around? Minnesota saw it coming.

And for every Chris Carter there are multiple players that turn out like Ryan Leaf. How much do you think Ryan Leaf should be earning today in the NFL?

Pac Man was arrested SIX TIMES! What did he not get after the second or third arrest? Being able to run a 4.3 forty does not make you more susceptible to being arrested...but hanging around with thugs and doing things that are illegal does.

Unfortunately it often times takes bad things to happen to people before they realize they need to make a change in their life and tap into their potential. NFL players are no different.

BTW, if a player performs better (with a chip on his shoulder) after he gets released, that's an admission that he was not giving 100% for that team that cut him.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

The old statement is often true....be careful of what you ask for because you might get it. Players are often low for a good reason and it's best to exercise caution before rostering them.

 

[Sweetness_34]

Over paid, under producing, locker room distracting, media bad talking, holding out, drug using, wife beating, dog fighting un-retiring players are often not worth the headaches. With all the money involved, it's best to do a "get what you can" for player.

Selling high in the NFL is damn near impossible today thanks to Dallas, Minnesota and the great Hershel Walker deal that gave Dallas multiple championships and tanked Minnesota for years.

When you buy low there isn't a lot of draft picks/money involved. When you see sign a FA to a ridiculous contract (Cough Javon Walker; Shaun Alexander; Edge James <cough&gt, that is when there is lots of money involved.

 

[Sweetness_34]

Over paid, under producing, locker room distracting, media bad talking, holding out, drug using, wife beating, dog fighting un-retiring players are often not worth the headaches. With all the money involved, it's best to do a "get what you can" for player.

Selling high in the NFL is damn near impossible today thanks to Dallas, Minnesota and the great Hershel Walker deal that gave Dallas multiple championships and tanked Minnesota for years.

Have you ever noticed how the locker room distraction/chemistry thingy only surfaces when teams are losing (see Moss in Oak for eg). Winning is what is paramount and over-rides any such issues (see TO in Dallas)

 

[Sweetness_34]

I agree. However, the differences between FF and NFL have to factored.

You reference Pacman...Randy...Corey...etc. These players may post great FF stats, but they could also hurt the acquiring team in the locker room. Bad attitudes can be contagious and, sometimes, the underlying play is not worth it.

Both Corey Dillon and Randy Moss helped their team to SBs....let's see what Pacman's impact is. Cris Carter helped his team to consistent playoff appearances. So winning is not worth it? Then why bother....Let me add one more buy low player: TO. The entire TO saga from the Eagles was BS. All I heard every one say was that TO would be good for the Cowboys for one year and then blow up.....what happened? How many years are we still waiting for the blow up? Who cares given they have been to the playoffs twice and are legit contenders thanks to TO?

TO was another classic buy low case who has helped the Cowboys get out of the miserable Quincy Carter years and made Tony Romo develop into a real QB....

It's not as simple as you paint it.Chris Carter was a druggie early in his career. He performed at a high level after he got clean. Him being cut was a catalyst for him deciding to get clean. How long would you continue to employ a druggie for hundreds of thousands of dollars with the hope that with nothing changing around them they will one day decide to clean up and perform up to their ability? Not long at all. How often does a druggie decide to get clean without something happening to scare the $--t out of them? Not that often.

Much of NFL players' performance is mental focus and commitment. Moss played like $--t in Oakland and his attitude sucked. How long did Oakland need to hang on to him hoping his attitude would finally come around? Minnesota saw it coming.

And for every Chris Carter there are multiple players that turn out like Ryan Leaf. How much do you think Ryan Leaf should be earning today in the NFL?

Pac Man was arrested SIX TIMES! What did he not get after the second or third arrest? Being able to run a 4.3 forty does not make you more susceptible to being arrested...but hanging around with thugs and doing things that are illegal does.

Unfortunately it often times takes bad things to happen to people before they realize they need to make a change in their life and tap into their potential. NFL players are no different.

BTW, if a player performs better (with a chip on his shoulder) after he gets released, that's an admission that he was not giving 100% for that team that cut him.

Players are human and when you are fired a couple of times, only then you take things seriously some times. Especially when you are a 20 year old person with lots of money and fame suddenly.