Cowboys Release TO (1 Viewer)

[Jedeye]

Does Pioli try to recreate the magic of when Moss came to the Patriots by bringing TO to KC? Probably not, but something to consider.

 

[obxlegends]

No disrespect to Ghost Rider, but I genuinely believe TO is a mortal HOF lock no matter what he does from here. I will concede that I don't see him getting in on the 1st or 2nd try, but that's as much about his contemporaries [Harrison, Moss] being eligible at roughly the same time as anything having to do with the voters holding something against him personally.

He ranks inside the Top 6 ALL TIME in Catches, Yards and TD's. Nope, not a Hall of Famer.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

Does Pioli try to recreate the magic of when Moss came to the Patriots by bringing TO to KC? Probably not, but something to consider.

Belichick only got Moss years after having established himself and his system on that team. I thought about Pioli in KC, but I think they want to take at least a year to clean house and establish themselves before they do something like sign TO.

 

[Genester]

The conspiracy theorist in me likes the following equation:

(1) Owens released by the Cowboys

(2) Coles signed to a pretty large (numbers-wise, not saying they are proven) crop of WRs in Cincy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

(3) Chad Ocho Cinco traded to Dallas now?

 

[obxlegends]

The conspiracy theorist in me likes the following equation:(1) Owens released by the Cowboys(2) Coles signed to a pretty large (numbers-wise, not saying they are proven) crop of WRs in Cincy----------------------------------------------------------------------------(3) Chad Ocho Cinco traded to Dallas now?

Yeah because it's not like Ocho Cinco isn't ever a distraction.

 

[Tau837]

Unless Owens somehow latches on to a team that ends up winning it all (although what contending team in their right mind would sign this cancer?), he can kiss the Hall of Fame goodbye. I don't care how good his numbers are...voters are not going to let a guy in who wore out his welcome with three different teams to the point where they all either released or traded him.

Completely disagree with this. Owens is a HOF lock, and deservedly so. I don't like him, but there are not many WRs in NFL history who have dominated the WR position like he has.

Completely disagree. Looking at just his numbers, they are awesome, yes, but was there ever really a long stretch where he was undoubtedly considered the best WR in the league? That would make him dominant. The answer is no. More often than not, Randy Moss and/or Marvin Harrison were considered as good or better than Owens. Kinda hard to dominate the WR position in the sense that you are talking about when you were hardly ever the unquestioned best in the league.

Owens was 1st team All Pro 5 times in 8 years (2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2007). Moss has only made it 4 times and Harrison only 3 times.

 

[Da Guru]

Unless Owens somehow latches on to a team that ends up winning it all (although what contending team in their right mind would sign this cancer?), he can kiss the Hall of Fame goodbye. I don't care how good his numbers are...voters are not going to let a guy in who wore out his welcome with three different teams to the point where they all either released or traded him.

Completely disagree with this. Owens is a HOF lock, and deservedly so. I don't like him, but there are not many WRs in NFL history who have dominated the WR position like he has.

Completely disagree. Looking at just his numbers, they are awesome, yes, but was there ever really a long stretch where he was undoubtedly considered the best WR in the league? That would make him dominant. The answer is no. More often than not, Randy Moss and/or Marvin Harrison were considered as good or better than Owens. Kinda hard to dominate the WR position in the sense that you are talking about when you were hardly ever the unquestioned best in the league.

Owens was 1st team All Pro 5 times in 8 years (2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2007). Moss has only made it 4 times and Harrison only 3 times.

It truly is a shame that Owens tantrums and sideline antics, and his problems with coaches and teammates have overshadowed how good of a WR he is..or was.This will be the third team Owens has left on bad terms with. Not a good track record.

 

[Ghost Rider]

No disrespect to Ghost Rider, but I genuinely believe TO is a mortal HOF lock no matter what he does from here. I will concede that I don't see him getting in on the 1st or 2nd try, but that's as much about his contemporaries [Harrison, Moss] being eligible at roughly the same time as anything having to do with the voters holding something against him personally.

He ranks inside the Top 6 ALL TIME in Catches, Yards and TD's. Nope, not a Hall of Famer.

Uh, I think everyone agrees that his numbers are more than good enough for the Hall. It's his tendency to be a disruptive cancer that makes some of us think he shouldn't make it. Please try to keep up.

Unless Owens somehow latches on to a team that ends up winning it all (although what contending team in their right mind would sign this cancer?), he can kiss the Hall of Fame goodbye. I don't care how good his numbers are...voters are not going to let a guy in who wore out his welcome with three different teams to the point where they all either released or traded him.

Completely disagree with this. Owens is a HOF lock, and deservedly so. I don't like him, but there are not many WRs in NFL history who have dominated the WR position like he has.

Completely disagree. Looking at just his numbers, they are awesome, yes, but was there ever really a long stretch where he was undoubtedly considered the best WR in the league? That would make him dominant. The answer is no. More often than not, Randy Moss and/or Marvin Harrison were considered as good or better than Owens. Kinda hard to dominate the WR position in the sense that you are talking about when you were hardly ever the unquestioned best in the league.

Owens was 1st team All Pro 5 times in 8 years (2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2007). Moss has only made it 4 times and Harrison only 3 times.

Okay, but two WRs make 1st team All-Pro, right? What if you were the 2nd best WR in the NFL for ten years straight? Would you say that that WR dominated the WR position even though he was never really the best (always 2nd best)? That is my point. To say someone dominated the position, you have to be able to say that they were undoubtedly were the best at their position over a long stretch, and you cannot say that about Terrell Owens (or Moss or Harrison). Someone like Dermontti Dawson was the best center in the NFL for a long stretch in the 90s, so you could say a guy like him dominated his position. WR is a difficult position to dominate (simply because production is so dependent on many different things - quality of QB play, how good your team is, whether or not your team is run or pass happy, etc.).

 

[Rockchild]

Something that has only been touched upon among these posts is TO's mental health. We know or, at least highly suspect, that he suffers from some type of mental illness-could he be deteriorating mentally more than we think?

 

[Jason Wood]

No disrespect to Ghost Rider, but I genuinely believe TO is a mortal HOF lock no matter what he does from here. I will concede that I don't see him getting in on the 1st or 2nd try, but that's as much about his contemporaries [Harrison, Moss] being eligible at roughly the same time as anything having to do with the voters holding something against him personally.

He ranks inside the Top 6 ALL TIME in Catches, Yards and TD's. Nope, not a Hall of Famer.

Not sure if you were reacting to Ghost Rider or my retort...but to be clear, I'm in agreement with you that TO is a MORTAL LOCK HOFer. And said as much.

 

[Tau837]

Unless Owens somehow latches on to a team that ends up winning it all (although what contending team in their right mind would sign this cancer?), he can kiss the Hall of Fame goodbye. I don't care how good his numbers are...voters are not going to let a guy in who wore out his welcome with three different teams to the point where they all either released or traded him.

Completely disagree with this. Owens is a HOF lock, and deservedly so. I don't like him, but there are not many WRs in NFL history who have dominated the WR position like he has.

Completely disagree. Looking at just his numbers, they are awesome, yes, but was there ever really a long stretch where he was undoubtedly considered the best WR in the league? That would make him dominant. The answer is no. More often than not, Randy Moss and/or Marvin Harrison were considered as good or better than Owens. Kinda hard to dominate the WR position in the sense that you are talking about when you were hardly ever the unquestioned best in the league.

Owens was 1st team All Pro 5 times in 8 years (2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2007). Moss has only made it 4 times and Harrison only 3 times.

Okay, but two WRs make 1st team All-Pro, right? What if you were the 2nd best WR in the NFL for ten years straight? Would you say that that WR dominated the WR position even though he was never really the best (always 2nd best)? That is my point.

Yes, absolutely that situation would illustrate an incredibly dominant WR. I am not getting your thinking on this at all. And, by the way, it isn't the case that Owens was second best in all of those seasons - he was clearly the top WR in 2000.

To say someone dominated the position, you have to be able to say that they were undoubtedly were the best at their position over a long stretch, and you cannot say that about Terrell Owens (or Moss or Harrison).

I don't agree with this definition. I guess you don't think any WRs have ever dominated the position then, other than Jerry Rice and Don Hutson. Is that your view?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yes, absolutely that situation would illustrate an incredibly dominant WR. I am not getting your thinking on this at all. And, by the way, it isn't the case that Owens was second best in all of those seasons - he was clearly the top WR in 2000.

Clearly? Owens had 97-1,451-13Harrison had 102-1,413-14Moss had 77-1,437-15I'd say it was pretty close between the three, and you have to consider that Owens was on a bad 6-10 team, while Harrison and Moss were on playoff teams that had double digit wins, so Owens likely had more "garbage time" stats, which I will admit is an impossible stat to track.

To say someone dominated the position, you have to be able to say that they were undoubtedly were the best at their position over a long stretch, and you cannot say that about Terrell Owens (or Moss or Harrison).

I don't agree with this definition. I guess you don't think any WRs have ever dominated the position then, other than Jerry Rice and Don Hutson. Is that your view?

Yes. One can be a dominant player, while having not dominated their position at the same time. I believe there is a difference.

 

[Couch Potato]

Of course he'll be in the Hall of Fame. It's not the Hall of Nice Guys. I think some here are confusing play and likability.

He's got the numbers, he's worked his ### off on the field, his teams have been winners for the most part and he's been a big part of that winning. He's had no off-field substance problems, convictions for anything as a matter of fact.

He's immature and can't shut his mouth, and I am not a fan, but he certainly qualifies for the HoF.

And fame? Yeah, he has plenty of that too.

 

[FUBAR]

Unless Owens somehow latches on to a team that ends up winning it all (although what contending team in their right mind would sign this cancer?), he can kiss the Hall of Fame goodbye. I don't care how good his numbers are...voters are not going to let a guy in who wore out his welcome with three different teams to the point where they all either released or traded him.

Completely disagree with this. Owens is a HOF lock, and deservedly so. I don't like him, but there are not many WRs in NFL history who have dominated the WR position like he has.

Completely disagree. Looking at just his numbers, they are awesome, yes, but was there ever really a long stretch where he was undoubtedly considered the best WR in the league? That would make him dominant. The answer is no. More often than not, Randy Moss and/or Marvin Harrison were considered as good or better than Owens. Kinda hard to dominate the WR position in the sense that you are talking about when you were hardly ever the unquestioned best in the league.

Owens was 1st team All Pro 5 times in 8 years (2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2007). Moss has only made it 4 times and Harrison only 3 times.

Okay, but two WRs make 1st team All-Pro, right? What if you were the 2nd best WR in the NFL for ten years straight? Would you say that that WR dominated the WR position even though he was never really the best (always 2nd best)? That is my point.

Yes, absolutely that situation would illustrate an incredibly dominant WR. I am not getting your thinking on this at all. And, by the way, it isn't the case that Owens was second best in all of those seasons - he was clearly the top WR in 2000.

To say someone dominated the position, you have to be able to say that they were undoubtedly were the best at their position over a long stretch, and you cannot say that about Terrell Owens (or Moss or Harrison).

I don't agree with this definition. I guess you don't think any WRs have ever dominated the position then, other than Jerry Rice and Don Hutson. Is that your view?

using the same logic, is there any player at any position who is dominant right now? Certainly not on offense. Champ Bailey? Who qualifies as dominant in your opinion?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Of course he'll be in the Hall of Fame. It's not the Hall of Nice Guys. I think some here are confusing play and likability.

He's got the numbers, he's worked his ### off on the field, his teams have been winners for the most part and he's been a big part of that winning. He's had in no off-field substance problems, convictions for anything as a matter of fact.

In the regular season, yes, but did you know that in the playoff games Owens has played in, his teams have won a grand total of four games? Four playoff wins in 13 seasons? Yep, that's a winner.

 

[dutch]

Ghost Rider, you're way off base on this one. When the NFL of the late 90's into the 00's is talked about, Three receivers pop immediately to mind when discussing greatness- Owens, Moss, Harrison. Holt, Smith and Oucho are always the second tier guys.

I can't imagine how anyone can look at TO's numbers, both his stats and awards, and come away with anything but the impression that he was one of the few very best at his psition during his era. And then when you look at his numbers from a historical perspective it is clear to see that he is at minimum a top ten alltime wr. To say that he is not hall worthy because he wasn't dominant during his era is false and just plain wrong.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

Something that has only been touched upon among these posts is TO's mental health. We know or, at least highly suspect, that he suffers from some type of mental illness-could he be deteriorating mentally more than we think?

It all depends upon how many reasons he has to live, doesn't it?

 

[Ghost Rider]

using the same logic, is there any player at any position who is dominant right now? Certainly not on offense. Champ Bailey? Who qualifies as dominant in your opinion?

Again, to me, there is a difference between being a dominant player and dominating your position? For example, Tony Gonzalez dominated his position for much of the past decade, as we was undoubtedly the best TE in the NFL for a long time, until Antonio Gates got up to his level a few years back. But that doesn't erase Gonzalez's long stretch of TE dominance.

 

[Tau837]

Yes, absolutely that situation would illustrate an incredibly dominant WR. I am not getting your thinking on this at all. And, by the way, it isn't the case that Owens was second best in all of those seasons - he was clearly the top WR in 2000.

Clearly? Owens had 97-1,451-13Harrison had 102-1,413-14Moss had 77-1,437-15I'd say it was pretty close between the three, and you have to consider that Owens was on a bad 6-10 team, while Harrison and Moss were on playoff teams that had double digit wins, so Owens likely had more "garbage time" stats, which I will admit is an impossible stat to track.

You also have to consider that Owens only played 14 games. The other two each played 16 games. Owens averaged 104 receiving yards per game.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Ghost Rider, you're way off base on this one. When the NFL of the late 90's into the 00's is talked about, Three receivers pop immediately to mind when discussing greatness- Owens, Moss, Harrison. Holt, Smith and Oucho are always the second tier guys. I can't imagine how anyone can look at TO's numbers, both his stats and awards, and come away with anything but the impression that he was one of the few very best at his psition during his era. And then when you look at his numbers from a historical perspective it is clear to see that he is at minimum a top ten alltime wr. To say that he is not hall worthy because he wasn't dominant during his era is false and just plain wrong.

I swear, I think some of you are not reading my posts all of the way through, and are thus not getting my point.I NEVER said he wasn't Hall-worthy because he wasn't dominant in his era. I said he won't make the Hall because his rep as a cancer in multiple locker rooms will kill his chances. I have said that, numbers-wise, he is one of the best WRs of his generation. Only a fool would say otherwise. But he has not dominated his position, because there have been two other WRs as good or better for pretty much the entire time he has been at his peak. I will say it one more time, and say it loudly (with apologize to those who do not like yelling):THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING A DOMINANT PLAYER AND DOMINATING YOUR POSITION.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yes, absolutely that situation would illustrate an incredibly dominant WR. I am not getting your thinking on this at all. And, by the way, it isn't the case that Owens was second best in all of those seasons - he was clearly the top WR in 2000.

Clearly? Owens had 97-1,451-13Harrison had 102-1,413-14Moss had 77-1,437-15I'd say it was pretty close between the three, and you have to consider that Owens was on a bad 6-10 team, while Harrison and Moss were on playoff teams that had double digit wins, so Owens likely had more "garbage time" stats, which I will admit is an impossible stat to track.

You also have to consider that Owens only played 14 games. The other two each played 16 games. Owens averaged 104 receiving yards per game.

You also have to consider that '00 was the season where Owens had that game against Chicago where they fed him the ball the entire game, so he could break Jerry Rice's reception record. That was the game he went for 20-283-1. So, while he may have averaged 104 receiving yards per game, he only had five games where he went over 100 yards, and his overall numbers were grossly inflated by one huge game, a game where he was force-fed the ball to break an individual record. It's also interesting to note that, except for that Chicago game, most of his other big games that season came in losses (many of them double digit losses), so again, it makes you wonder how much of his production came in garbage time, especially compared to Moss and Harrison, who put up similar numbers while playing on winning teams.Also, Moss and Harrison both went over 100 yards eight times in '00, compared to five for Owens, so those two played at a consistently high level more often than Owens did.

 

[dutch]

I don't agree with you even after your clarification, GR. Owens, HArrison and Moss can't help that they are playing at the same time as one another. It would be like debiting Aaron because he palyed when Mays was playing. It is possible for there to be multiple alltime greats playing the same postion at hte same time as one another.

 

[Tau837]

Ghost Rider, you're way off base on this one. When the NFL of the late 90's into the 00's is talked about, Three receivers pop immediately to mind when discussing greatness- Owens, Moss, Harrison. Holt, Smith and Oucho are always the second tier guys. I can't imagine how anyone can look at TO's numbers, both his stats and awards, and come away with anything but the impression that he was one of the few very best at his psition during his era. And then when you look at his numbers from a historical perspective it is clear to see that he is at minimum a top ten alltime wr. To say that he is not hall worthy because he wasn't dominant during his era is false and just plain wrong.

I swear, I think some of you are not reading my posts all of the way through, and are thus not getting my point.I NEVER said he wasn't Hall-worthy because he wasn't dominant in his era. I said he won't make the Hall because his rep as a cancer in multiple locker rooms will kill his chances. I have said that, numbers-wise, he is one of the best WRs of his generation. Only a fool would say otherwise. But he has not dominated his position, because there have been two other WRs as good or better for pretty much the entire time he has been at his peak. I will say it one more time, and say it loudly (with apologize to those who do not like yelling):THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING A DOMINANT PLAYER AND DOMINATING YOUR POSITION.

It's a semantic argument. And you're in the minority on your side of it.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I don't agree with you even after your clarification, GR. Owens, HArrison and Moss can't help that they are playing at the same time as one another. It would be like debiting Aaron because he palyed when Mays was playing. It is possible for there to be multiple alltime greats playing the same postion at hte same time as one another.

I understand that, which is why I have repeatedly stated the difference between being a dominant player and dominating your position.

It's a semantic argument. And you're in the minority on your side of it.

I realize that, and I am okay with that. I know everyone is never going to see eye-to-eye on such things, but as long as you guys understand my point and where I am coming from, it's all good with me. I know not everyone is going to agree with me about there being a difference between being a dominating a player and dominating your position.

 

[Bob Magaw]

HoF voters are explicitly told to ignore off field issues & base their decision PURELY on the numbers...

GR already conceded the numbers are HoF worthy (i'm not sure if emmitt smith was dominant relative to barry sanders, but he rolled up some huge numbers over his career)...

just a matter of when, not if he gets in...

 

[dutch]

As a side note, when looking at team payoff success it should be pointed out that until last years sb run Moss had been on teams that won a grand trotal of 4 playoff games. Harrison fares even worse, his teams won a grand total of 3 playoff games outside of the one sb year. Owens is still lacking bt it aint by much.

 

[Smeagol]

lol there is about six different things being discussed in this thread.

 

[dutch]

lol there is about six different things being discussed in this thread.

Welcome to footballguys.

 

[Smeagol]

lol there is about six different things being discussed in this thread.

Welcome to footballguys.

I'm inclined to make a thread to exclusively talk about TO's possible destination. But I just know some #### will link me back to this thread and give me the .

 

[Dexter Manley]

I haven't read every post in this thread, but anyone who thinks there's any chance he lands in Minny needs a reality check. That will happen about the same time I start dating Jessica Alba.

Wrt FF, that sound you hear is Romo's value crashing. While TO was obviously a cancer, no one on offense was close to being as valuable as TO outside of Romo. Witten's value takes a hit too, although he still has as good of shot as anyone at finishing TE1. Roy will put up much better #'s obviously, but he will be overvalued in most leagues. Expect the Cowboy's running game to take a hit too.

For those who disagree with my assessment, go back to weeks 16 and 17 in 2007 after TO got injured late in the 2nd quarter in the Carolina game. The offense basically shut down without TO. Teams will now primarily gameplan around stopping Witten and the running game. For all the negative behavior TO exhibited, he was still the most dangerous offensive weapon on the Cowboys. His presence opened that whole offense up. Unless Dallas makes a major move for another elite wr, I will be very surprised to see them end up in the top 10 in offense this season.

A Redskins fan predicting doom and gloom for the Cowboys. Shocking.And you've been one of the more biased Redskin fans over the years. Get outta here with that trash.

Nice rebuttal. Completely ignore the facts and attack the messenger.And at accusing me of being biased. I specifically targetted TO and Witten in 2007 and they helped lead me to a championship. Come to think of it, I've had at least 1 Cowboy on each of my teams the last couple years, and I routinely get heckled during drafts by Cowboy fan for taking them.

Unless Roy develops into an upper echelon WR1 or Dallas acquires an elite WR from another team, this offense is going to take a step or 2 backwards in 2009. As of right now, Romo is a strong candidate to be the most overvalued player in FF drafts.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

To suggest T.O. is not a first ballot HOFER is silly IMO.

 

[foxco]

Unless Owens somehow latches on to a team that ends up winning it all (although what contending team in their right mind would sign this cancer?), he can kiss the Hall of Fame goodbye. I don't care how good his numbers are...voters are not going to let a guy in who wore out his welcome with three different teams to the point where they all either released or traded him.

Completely disagree with this. Owens is a HOF lock, and deservedly so. I don't like him, but there are not many WRs in NFL history who have dominated the WR position like he has.

Completely disagree. Looking at just his numbers, they are awesome, yes, but was there ever really a long stretch where he was undoubtedly considered the best WR in the league? That would make him dominant. The answer is no. More often than not, Randy Moss and/or Marvin Harrison were considered as good or better than Owens. Kinda hard to dominate the WR position in the sense that you are talking about when you were hardly ever the unquestioned best in the league.

Using this logic Tim Brown will never get in. He was never the best WR any year, not even close.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

To suggest T.O. is not a first ballot HOFER is silly IMO.

I'm certain he will get in. I'm equally certain he won't get in on the first ballot.

 

[Ridgelake]

I'm inclined to make a thread to exclusively talk about TO's possible destination.

On this topic, here's how Vegas thinks of the subject....Here are the odds, courtesy of www.BodogLife.com.What team will Terrell Owens play football for during the 2009 NFL season?Oakland Raiders 7/2Washington Redskins 4/1New York Jets 6/1Tampa Bay Buccaneers 13/2New England Patriots 13/2Tennessee Titans 13/2Miami Dolphins 8/1Philadelphia Eagles 50/1Field (any other team) 5/2

 

[EBF]

He dominated for a decade. Easily one of the top 3-4 WRs of the past ten years. Definitely HoF material.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Gimme Tampa at 13/2

 

[fissure man]

Ghost Rider is obviously letting his feelings about TO get in the way. I'm not a fan of TO myself, but the guy was great for a very long time. He is probably the most deadly receiver with the ball in his hands to ever play.

Don't like it or hate it, Owens is getting in, no question.

 

[obxlegends]

No disrespect to Ghost Rider, but I genuinely believe TO is a mortal HOF lock no matter what he does from here. I will concede that I don't see him getting in on the 1st or 2nd try, but that's as much about his contemporaries [Harrison, Moss] being eligible at roughly the same time as anything having to do with the voters holding something against him personally.

He ranks inside the Top 6 ALL TIME in Catches, Yards and TD's. Nope, not a Hall of Famer.

Uh, I think everyone agrees that his numbers are more than good enough for the Hall. It's his tendency to be a disruptive cancer that makes some of us think he shouldn't make it. Please try to keep up.

Then you need to explain to me why it took Mr. All-Around-Good-Guy Art Monk so long to get into the HOF. I've never seen the NFL keep out someone so overwhelmingly qualified as T.O. because he was a jerk. For you to insinuate that they would only shows how little you truly know about the game.

Keeping up!

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

seriously if not the Redskins I dont know who

 

[Dexter Manley]

Don't know why everyone is talking about TO and the HOF in this thread, but anyone who thinks he isn't getting into the HOF is taking crazy pills.

 

[Dexter Manley]

I'm inclined to make a thread to exclusively talk about TO's possible destination.

On this topic, here's how Vegas thinks of the subject....Here are the odds, courtesy of www.BodogLife.com.What team will Terrell Owens play football for during the 2009 NFL season?Oakland Raiders 7/2Washington Redskins 4/1New York Jets 6/1Tampa Bay Buccaneers 13/2New England Patriots 13/2Tennessee Titans 13/2Miami Dolphins 8/1Philadelphia Eagles 50/1Field (any other team) 5/2

I swear when it comes to props, some of these sites just throw random #### up there to see what sticks.

 

[cstu]

When he signed in Dallas the fans, almost with one voice proclaimed how it would be different there, and that anyone who said otherwise was a hater.Now I find no Dallas fans who even remember tht they had once said so.Predictable really, and not wholly unique to Dallas fans.

Yeah, Philly fans were the same way (although at that time he'd only destroyed the one team, so that can be forgiven). What's really funny is that it'll be the same thing again with the fans of wherever he ends up.

So it was TO's fault that Romo fumbled the hold 2006 and could only catch the 1 TD that Romo threw in 2007?

 

[JamesTheScot]

Please come to Oakland so Russell has some who can get open other than Miller.

As a Miller owner I love that.And I think it's a move that is long overdue in Dallas.I'm a little surprised at all the angst over the blown-up team chemistry in Denver after the McDaniels v. Cutler mishap but yet so many don't see how T.O. is a huge albatross around the neck of the Dallas team chemistry.Does T.O. still have something to contribute? Yes.Does what he contributes outweigh what he screws up in team chemistry? Not so sure.It's a win-win. Dallas gets rid of a prima donna whose mouth does more damage to his own team than his hands do to the opponent.Someone else gets a chance to try T.O. when he might now be motivated to use his mouth less and his hands more. I expect that to last only 1 year, though.

 

[Captain_Apocalypse]

I hate to even think this is a possibility, but with all the teams "not interested" in TO is there not a chance of him ending up in Arizona? They have a good QB, a possible SB run next season, the kind of team TO would want to play for. They trade Boldin, or cut him, and get TO for a one year "prove it" deal. Is this possible or am I way off base here?

 

[JamesTheScot]

Ghost Rider is obviously letting his feelings about TO get in the way. I'm not a fan of TO myself, but the guy was great for a very long time. He is probably the most deadly receiver with the ball in his hands to ever play.

I think that might be Rae Carruth, actually.Or maybe Marvin Harrison, allegedly.

Sorry. Had to.

 

[Ghost Rider]

To suggest T.O. is not a first ballot HOFER is silly IMO.

Owens may or may not make the Hall, but if you think voters are gonna him let him in as a first ballot HoFer, than I want some of what you are smoking.

Unless Owens somehow latches on to a team that ends up winning it all (although what contending team in their right mind would sign this cancer?), he can kiss the Hall of Fame goodbye. I don't care how good his numbers are...voters are not going to let a guy in who wore out his welcome with three different teams to the point where they all either released or traded him.

Completely disagree with this. Owens is a HOF lock, and deservedly so. I don't like him, but there are not many WRs in NFL history who have dominated the WR position like he has.

Completely disagree. Looking at just his numbers, they are awesome, yes, but was there ever really a long stretch where he was undoubtedly considered the best WR in the league? That would make him dominant. The answer is no. More often than not, Randy Moss and/or Marvin Harrison were considered as good or better than Owens. Kinda hard to dominate the WR position in the sense that you are talking about when you were hardly ever the unquestioned best in the league.

Using this logic Tim Brown will never get in. He was never the best WR any year, not even close.

Where did I say that a WR had to have dominated his position to make the Hall? I will answer that for you: NOWHERE!

No disrespect to Ghost Rider, but I genuinely believe TO is a mortal HOF lock no matter what he does from here. I will concede that I don't see him getting in on the 1st or 2nd try, but that's as much about his contemporaries [Harrison, Moss] being eligible at roughly the same time as anything having to do with the voters holding something against him personally.

He ranks inside the Top 6 ALL TIME in Catches, Yards and TD's. Nope, not a Hall of Famer.

Uh, I think everyone agrees that his numbers are more than good enough for the Hall. It's his tendency to be a disruptive cancer that makes some of us think he shouldn't make it. Please try to keep up.

Then you need to explain to me why it took Mr. All-Around-Good-Guy Art Monk so long to get into the HOF. I've never seen the NFL keep out someone so overwhelmingly qualified as T.O. because he was a jerk. For you to insinuate that they would only shows how little you truly know about the game.

Keeping up!

Monk didn't have the numbers that Owens has. If he did, he would have made it in his first or second year, easily. Thanks for throwing me a softball right over the heart of the plate.

Ghost Rider is obviously letting his feelings about TO get in the way.

Say what? Even though I don't like Owens, I have not been one of the most vocal bashers of his around here, so I am not sure why you would think that.

 

[fissure man]

I haven't read every post in this thread, but anyone who thinks there's any chance he lands in Minny needs a reality check. That will happen about the same time I start dating Jessica Alba.

Wrt FF, that sound you hear is Romo's value crashing. While TO was obviously a cancer, no one on offense was close to being as valuable as TO outside of Romo. Witten's value takes a hit too, although he still has as good of shot as anyone at finishing TE1. Roy will put up much better #'s obviously, but he will be overvalued in most leagues. Expect the Cowboy's running game to take a hit too.

For those who disagree with my assessment, go back to weeks 16 and 17 in 2007 after TO got injured late in the 2nd quarter in the Carolina game. The offense basically shut down without TO. Teams will now primarily gameplan around stopping Witten and the running game. For all the negative behavior TO exhibited, he was still the most dangerous offensive weapon on the Cowboys. His presence opened that whole offense up. Unless Dallas makes a major move for another elite wr, I will be very surprised to see them end up in the top 10 in offense this season.

A Redskins fan predicting doom and gloom for the Cowboys. Shocking.And you've been one of the more biased Redskin fans over the years. Get outta here with that trash.

Nice rebuttal. Completely ignore the facts and attack the messenger.And at accusing me of being biased. I specifically targetted TO and Witten in 2007 and they helped lead me to a championship. Come to think of it, I've had at least 1 Cowboy on each of my teams the last couple years, and I routinely get heckled during drafts by Cowboy fan for taking them.

Unless Roy develops into an upper echelon WR1 or Dallas acquires an elite WR from another team, this offense is going to take a step or 2 backwards in 2009. As of right now, Romo is a strong candidate to be the most overvalued player in FF drafts.

What would be the point of having a rational conversation with somebody who is already biased? The fact that the offense struggled in weeks 16 & 17 of 2007 has what do do with anything? IF you take away a ceterpeice of an offense the last 2 games of the season, there is going to be a drop off.

We absolutely shouldn't factor in the addition of Roy Williams and an entire offseason to work on a gameplan that doesn't involve TO.

I wasn't attacking you. I was pointing out that you're biased and are always quick to rush to a Dallas thread and throw some pot shots.

 

[bigmiiiiike]

I haven't seen Minnesota or Chicago mentioned. I'd think that his presence on either of these teams would be worth the risk/reward of his baggage. The Skins, Giants and Raiders seem like instinctual TO landing pads. It would be scary to see TO in a "mentor capacity" if the Raiders sign him and then draft Crabtree.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I haven't seen Minnesota or Chicago mentioned.

I think you need to re-read this thread, then, because Minnesota has been mentioned by quite a few people, but like has been pointed out, no way will Brad Childress, who was in Philly when the Owens implosion took place, work with him again.

 

[parrot]

Ghost Rider is obviously letting his feelings about TO get in the way. I'm not a fan of TO myself, but the guy was great for a very long time. He is probably the most deadly receiver with the ball in his hands to ever play.

I think that might be Rae Carruth, actually.Or maybe Marvin Harrison, allegedly.

Sorry. Had to.

Marvin shot a .50 cal six or seven times and wounded the guy's hand. He's about as deadly as Grossman.