Crabtree (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

Come on Chase, that is all in theory and hte premise it right, but does not apply here. He is a draft pick and his leverage is that he was taken in the 10th slot. He will automatically get paid more than most of the players that have been working at his postion without having played one down in the NFL. He's getting paid millions on pure potential. His leverage is that he wa taken in the slot and that is why the 49ers and every other team in the NFL pay their draft picks accordingly to their draft spot. If this was not the case, then a team could easily offer the #1 overall pick a vets minimum. Of course, that doesn't happen. Again, it's leverage in that a team has used a draft pick, especially if high one, on a player. That franchise is attaching themselves to that person to help them now and later down the road. Not the same leverage as a FA in demand, but they have leverage.

It is what it is, but vets should be making more than rookies and everyone knows this is a flawed system, but the union doesn't want pull back on anyone getting money because they are afraid that the team's will not re-distribute that money to the other (Vet) players. To say they are underpaid is just plain silly...in standards for normal working people, but even for NFL players.

What is "should?"I think beer at an NFL game should cost $4. Do you think we should have a rule requiring teams to charge no more than $4 for beer?

Are you serious? I'll entertain this silliness a bit further since you want take into something else other than the topic. Let's say you have been working for FBG for 5 years now. You've helped create the site and content, basically made the name/site known. Actually helped do your part in getting the site accolades by being team member and contributing to help it become what it is now. Not only that, you don't need to be led to water and you are more self sufficient, so that means less hand holding by Joe & David having to tell you what to do all the time. Now comes along some snot nose young buck like Bloom (just using an example, not for real here) and Joe & David pay him more than you. No, not 6 or 12 pack more, since you want $4 beers....he's making more than you and every other contributer on the site/company by a far margin is clearly the highest paid on staff. He's not pulling in more people to the site (at least not yet), hey...everyone was here already loving FBG. You "should" be making more than the snot nosed Bloom or anyone else that comes in that is in the similar role as you. Now, once the snot nosed guy out perfoms you or shows that he's better or deserving, then he can get paid more than you. Why, you've been doing it for 5 years already. You put time in and have been doing your job.This is the same set up that the rest of Corporate America has in place. That is why a receptionist doesn't come in and make more than the lawyer, doctor and other professions. Matter of fact, that is why the NEW receptionist doesn't come in and make more than the existing receptionists. Now, when unions are involved...that receptionist comes in and makes closer to what the other receptionists make and that is the advantage of a union. We're still in corp America here, the union does NOT allow the NEW receptionist to come in and make more. So, the existing receptionist "should" make more.

Are you saying it's not Joe and David's decision to pay Bloom more than me, even though "clearly" I deserve more? You bring up Corporate America, which assumes a free market. In that case, Joe and David would be allowed to make whatever decision than want, so your example doesn't make much sense. I may be upset about being Bloom being paid more than me, but why in the world should that decision be made by anyone other than Joe and David?Who should sign a bigger contract -- Kerry Collins or Matt Stafford? Based on your "time and grade" philosophy, the answer would be Collins. But there's not a single team that would choose to pay more to Collins than Stafford. It seems like you prefer the military to capitalism, and notions of fairness to notions of freedom. There's nothing wrong with that, but in almost every respect, the NFL is run like a corporation. The bottom line/salary cap is what all decisions generally revolve around. Mandating that teams pay more money to less attractive players and less money to more attractive players (the result of say, a rookie salary cap) flies in the face of that.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Do you really feel like Stafford would have gotten a significantly better deal if there was an open competition for his services? I don't. He may have gotten less without the draft. And what leverage did he have other than what I already mentioned?

Yes.It's hard for most people to wrap their heads around the idea of Tournament theory, but NFL GMs are well aware of it. Brian Burke wrote a good article on the same idea, Gladiators vs. Bricklayers.

Think fantasy football. Is Larry Fitzgerald twice as good as Anquan Boldin? Is Drew Brees twice as good as Kurt Warner? Most people, intuitively, would say no. That is, until they played in an auction league. Then, quite oddly, the answer becomes yes. Antonio Gates will go for twice as much money as Kellen Winslow, but is he twice as good? No one would ever suggest that we should play in auction leagues where you can't pay whatever you want for someone, but Knowshon Moreno will go for about the same $$ as Marion Barber. The idea of a cap on rookie salaries in auction leagues would be silly, but why would we think we need one in the NFL?

Yes, there is a bilateral monopoly in the NFL draft. For each player and each team, they are the only seller and buyer of services. The Jets can't sign any other drafted rookie QB, and Mark Sanchez can't sign with any other team. In that instance, the contract is determined by who has the most bargaining power or leverage. As has been made abundantly clear in the posts in this thread, Crabtree has significantly less (but still a nonzero amount) of leverage than the 49ers. Therefore, SF should get him at a good deal. There's no reason for SF to overpay for Crabtree, and even if they "overpay" what the market price is for the #10 pick, they'll never overpay his actual worth (what he'd get on the open market).

The Stafford situation is less advantageous for him, because Detroit was not locked in to drafting Stafford. He literally had no leverage, so yes, I would say Stafford certainly would have made more money if he was able to sign with whomever he wanted. It sounds "weird" because he's unproven, but NFL pay is determined by future potential (that's why Stafford will make more money than Kerry Collins) and bricklayer vs. gladiator (or tournament theory) principles.

 

[NinerK]

From Yeseterday's SF Chronicle:

Link to the article

(08-06) 20:03 PDT -- The Michael Crabtree saga took a new turn Thursday when the wide receiver's cousin and adviser suggested he is prepared to sit out the 2009 season and enter the 2010 draft if the 49ers do not offer him "fair market value."

"We are prepared to do it," David Wells told ESPN.com. "Michael just wants fair market value. They took him with the 10th pick and you have Darrius Heyward-Bey getting $38 million (from the Raiders)? This week is crucial."

Crabtree's agent, Eugene Parker, broke from his customary media silence and told ESPN.com, "I don't know where this came from, but no such threat has been made." However, according to ProFootballTalk.com, Parker did indeed make the threat and is reportedly looking for a contract in excess of what the Raiders gave Heyward-Bey, the seventh pick in the draft.

If Crabtree does sit out the '09 season, the 49ers would retain his rights until the day of the 2010 draft. By rule, he could not meet with other teams or work out for other teams or attend next year's scouting combine as long as the 49ers hold his rights.

---------------------------------------------------------

Ok, now the issue is pretty clear to me. He and his agent/posse are really angry (read: Crabtree's feelings are hurt) that DHB went before him. The thing is, they CLEARLY do not understand the definition of "Fair Market Value". A said before, his cousin is not doing him any favors. Fair Market Value is a little more than #11 and a little less than #9.

Also, someone should explain to him the rule where if he sits out 2009, he will not be able to meet and work out and do the combine.

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm ok with SF paying him a little extra $$; but if he wants more than DHB, the dude is crazy and I don't blame the Niners for sticking to their guns.

And clearly the issue is he's a big baby and is pouting because DHB, who he thinks is beneath him/worse player than him got picked #7. And because he thinks he's better than DHB, he/they think Fair Market Value is more $$ than DHB. That is just insane.

I do real estate appraisal and I see the same thing. "I put $40K into my kitchen, Fair Market Value should be $40K more than what my neighbor got for his house."........

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Supposedly, Eugene Parker was able to sign Crabtree with a guarantee that he'd get him into the Top 5. Since he fell to #10, this is Parker's ploy to get him the money that he essentially promised him so that he doesn't lose him as a client.

Parker screwed up and is now desperately trying to make some cash.

And, Parker/Crabtree are not the first guys that have tried to get their clients more money than their draft slot. This happens with QBs quite a bit.

Pk Player Pos. Team Status Contract 1. Matthew Stafford QB Detroit Signed 6 years, $72 million ($41.7M guaranteed)

2. Jason Smith OT St. Louis Signed 5 years, $61.775 million ($33M guaranteed)

3. Tyson Jackson DE Kansas City Unsigned

4. Aaron Curry LB Seattle Unsigned

5. Mark Sanchez QB N.Y. Jets Signed 5 years, $60 million ($28M guaranteed)

6. Andre Smith OT Cincinnati Unsigned

7. Darrius Heyward-Bey WR Oakland Signed 5 years, $38.25 million ($23.5M guaranteed)

8. Eugene Monroe OT Jacksonville Unsigned

9. B.J. Raji DT Green Bay Unsigned

10. Michael Crabtree WR San Francisco Unsigned

11. Aaron Maybin DE Buffalo Unsigned

12. Knowshon Moreno RB Denver Unsigned

13. Brian Orakpo DE Washington Signed 5 years, $20 million ($12.1M guaranteed)

14. Malcolm Jenkins CB New Orleans Unsigned

15. Brian Cushing LB Houston Signed 5 years, $14 million ($10.44M guaranteed)

16. Larry English DE San Diego Signed 5 years, $17.8 million ($9.9M guaranteed)

17. Josh Freeman QB Tampa Bay Signed 5 years, $36 million (10.25M guaranteed)

18. Robert Ayers LB Denver Signed 5 years

19. Jeremy Maclin WR Philadelphia Signed 5 years, $15.5 million ($9.5M guaranteed)

20. Brandon Pettigrew TE Detroit Signed 5 years, $14.6 million ($9.4M guaranteed)

21. Alex Mack C Cleveland Signed 5 years, $15 million ($8.3M guaranteed)

22. Percy Harvin WR Minnesota Signed 5 years, $14.25 million ($8.4M guaranteed)

23. Michael Oher OT Baltimore Signed 5 years, $13 million ($7.82M guaranteed)

24. Peria Jerry DT Atlanta Signed 5 years, $13.25 million ($7.55M guaranteed)

25. Vontae Davis CB Miami Signed 5 years, $13.3 million ($7.35M guaranteed)

26. Clay Matthews LB Green Bay Signed 5 years, $13.2 million ($7.1M guaranteed)

27. Donald Brown RB Indianapolis Signed 5 years, $12.8 million ($6.8M guaranteed)

28. Eric Wood C Buffalo Signed 5 years, $13 million ($6.5M guaranteed)

29. Hakeem Nicks WR N.Y. Giants Signed 5 years, $12.54 million ($6M guaranteed)

30. Kenny Britt WR Tennessee Signed 5 years, $12.25 million ($6.5M guaranteed)

31. Chris "Beanie" Wells RB Arizona Signed 5 years, $11.8 million ($6.345M guaranteed)

32. Evander "Ziggy" Hood DT Pittsburgh Signed 5 years, $11.3 million ($6.1M guaranteed)

I find it interesting that 9 out of the first 16 picks are still unsigned and none of #17-32 are unsigned.

Since picks 1-16 can be signed for 6 years, it makes you wonder if it has more to do with the the 6th year rather than money. The teams may be holding out for 6 years while the players may be holding out for 5.

 

[fightingillini]

Crabtree doesn't have much leverage here, which explains why rookies are underpaid. I don't blame him for wanting to make more money (how could you blame someone for that?) but I don't think he's doing himself any favors. I suspect he'll end up signing a pick worth slightly better than expected money for the #10 pick, but not for a few more weeks. Going into the draft next year would be a terrible career move, even if he went to play in the UFL for a year.

That's what I expect Crabtree to do as well.....If he holds out all year and reenters the NFL draft, I can see the exact scenario happening again next year.....Crabtree getting drafted, say 5th overall but wants Top 3 money. He thinks he's the best player. No team is going to take that kind of risk, especially if he's been out of competitive football for a year. He will cost himself a good chunk of change if he holds out all year and reenters next year's NFL.

 

[derek19]

I'm not sure how true this quote is or when it was made but Per MM's facebook:

Crabtree's apparent negotiating stance: "Reality is overrated. I want to get paid based on where some mock drafts had me going."

Again, not sure if this is true that he said that. But when are mocks considered "reality"?

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

The dude is still hurt.

No doubt in my mind.

He and his supporters are dumb as rocks.

Have fun San Fran.

 

[lod01]

Crabtree doesn't have much leverage here, which explains why rookies are underpaid. I don't blame him for wanting to make more money (how could you blame someone for that?) but I don't think he's doing himself any favors. I suspect he'll end up signing a pick worth slightly better than expected money for the #10 pick, but not for a few more weeks. Going into the draft next year would be a terrible career move, even if he went to play in the UFL for a year.

That's what I expect Crabtree to do as well.....If he holds out all year and reenters the NFL draft, I can see the exact scenario happening again next year.....Crabtree getting drafted, say 5th overall but wants Top 3 money. He thinks he's the best player. No team is going to take that kind of risk, especially if he's been out of competitive football for a year. He will cost himself a good chunk of change if he holds out all year and reenters next year's NFL.

If he does something as stupid as holding out for the next draft, what team in their right mind would pick this guy in the 1st round? He will never get as much as he will signing right now. That's a fact.

 

[JohnnyU]

Crabtree doesn't have much leverage here, which explains why rookies are underpaid. I don't blame him for wanting to make more money (how could you blame someone for that?) but I don't think he's doing himself any favors. I suspect he'll end up signing a pick worth slightly better than expected money for the #10 pick, but not for a few more weeks. Going into the draft next year would be a terrible career move, even if he went to play in the UFL for a year.

That's what I expect Crabtree to do as well.....If he holds out all year and reenters the NFL draft, I can see the exact scenario happening again next year.....Crabtree getting drafted, say 5th overall but wants Top 3 money. He thinks he's the best player. No team is going to take that kind of risk, especially if he's been out of competitive football for a year. He will cost himself a good chunk of change if he holds out all year and reenters next year's NFL.

If he does something as stupid as holding out for the next draft, what team in their right mind would pick this guy in the 1st round? He will never get as much as he will signing right now. That's a fact.

He needs to get rid of his cousin as an advisor. The dude is going to ruin Crabtree.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Do you really feel like Stafford would have gotten a significantly better deal if there was an open competition for his services? I don't. He may have gotten less without the draft. And what leverage did he have other than what I already mentioned?

Yes.It's hard for most people to wrap their heads around the idea of Tournament theory, but NFL GMs are well aware of it. Brian Burke wrote a good article on the same idea, Gladiators vs. Bricklayers.

Think fantasy football. Is Larry Fitzgerald twice as good as Anquan Boldin? Is Drew Brees twice as good as Kurt Warner? Most people, intuitively, would say no. That is, until they played in an auction league. Then, quite oddly, the answer becomes yes. Antonio Gates will go for twice as much money as Kellen Winslow, but is he twice as good? No one would ever suggest that we should play in auction leagues where you can't pay whatever you want for someone, but Knowshon Moreno will go for about the same $$ as Marion Barber. The idea of a cap on rookie salaries in auction leagues would be silly, but why would we think we need one in the NFL?

Yes, there is a bilateral monopoly in the NFL draft. For each player and each team, they are the only seller and buyer of services. The Jets can't sign any other drafted rookie QB, and Mark Sanchez can't sign with any other team. In that instance, the contract is determined by who has the most bargaining power or leverage. As has been made abundantly clear in the posts in this thread, Crabtree has significantly less (but still a nonzero amount) of leverage than the 49ers. Therefore, SF should get him at a good deal. There's no reason for SF to overpay for Crabtree, and even if they "overpay" what the market price is for the #10 pick, they'll never overpay his actual worth (what he'd get on the open market).

The Stafford situation is less advantageous for him, because Detroit was not locked in to drafting Stafford. He literally had no leverage, so yes, I would say Stafford certainly would have made more money if he was able to sign with whomever he wanted. It sounds "weird" because he's unproven, but NFL pay is determined by future potential (that's why Stafford will make more money than Kerry Collins) and bricklayer vs. gladiator (or tournament theory) principles.

I get what you are saying about leverage and monopolies, but I simply don't believe that if Stafford were released today, he'd get a significantly better deal than he already got. He was already the highest paid player in NFL history at the time his deal was made. For a guy that we really don't know will even be a viable starting NFL QB, and who has "no leverage", that's pretty good huh? I guess the followup question would be, "What kind of deal do you think Stafford would get as a free agent?". He got $42M in guaranteed money as a draft pick. What would he have gotten as a free agent? $50M? $60M? Sorry man, just not buying it. I LIKE the theory - but in reality, something is missing.

For the original purposes of the discussion though, I do agree that Crabtree would likely make more as a FA than the team wants to pay him as a #10 pick. Whether the rooks are really "worth it" or not, is a whole other question of course. So many of these guys bust, I would thinks GMs would need to take that into consideration.

 

[NinerK]

I'm not sure how true this quote is or when it was made but Per MM's facebook:

Crabtree's apparent negotiating stance: "Reality is overrated. I want to get paid based on where some mock drafts had me going."

Again, not sure if this is true that he said that. But when are mocks considered "reality"?

Derek,did you hear him on KNBR this morning? (MM)

He said the same thing on air, but again, he said that's what is apparent, not a quote from Crabtree's camp.

MM also said:

They appear to be $7-$8M apart.

Niners are digging in, they have Morgan, Bruce, Hill and Battle.

Interview is on this page in the center column:

Matt Maiocco Talks About Crabtree

 

[mdog1967]

I'm not sure how true this quote is or when it was made but Per MM's facebook:

Crabtree's apparent negotiating stance: "Reality is overrated. I want to get paid based on where some mock drafts had me going."

Again, not sure if this is true that he said that. But when are mocks considered "reality"?

Derek,did you hear him on KNBR this morning? (MM)

He said the same thing on air, but again, he said that's what is apparent, not a quote from Crabtree's camp.

MM also said:

They appear to be $7-$8M apart.

Niners are digging in, they have Morgan, Bruce, Hill and Battle.

Interview is on this page in the center column:

Matt Maiocco Talks About Crabtree

I hope Crabtree holds out and re-enters the draft. I think the 49rs can live without him. Josh Morgan, Jason hill should provide a very talented duo for the Niners for years to come. I would like to see the Niners just forget about him. At this point I would not sign this guy period to a contract. Let him take his thug posse to some other team next year. Long Time Niner Fan and could care less if Tree ever steps on the Field in the NFL.

 

[NinerK]

I'm not sure how true this quote is or when it was made but Per MM's facebook:

Crabtree's apparent negotiating stance: "Reality is overrated. I want to get paid based on where some mock drafts had me going."

Again, not sure if this is true that he said that. But when are mocks considered "reality"?

Derek,did you hear him on KNBR this morning? (MM)

He said the same thing on air, but again, he said that's what is apparent, not a quote from Crabtree's camp.

MM also said:

They appear to be $7-$8M apart.

Niners are digging in, they have Morgan, Bruce, Hill and Battle.

Interview is on this page in the center column:

Matt Maiocco Talks About Crabtree

I hope Crabtree holds out and re-enters the draft. I think the 49rs can live without him. Josh Morgan, Jason hill should provide a very talented duo for the Niners for years to come. I would like to see the Niners just forget about him. At this point I would not sign this guy period to a contract. Let him take his thug posse to some other team next year. Long Time Niner Fan and could care less if Tree ever steps on the Field in the NFL.

I'm beginning to feel the same way. Your a long way from the fishbowl of Lubbock, Crabtree. Seriously though, I've completely changed my mind from yesterday. You can want a lot of money, that's cool; get what you CAN. There's no way he gets paid more $$ than DHB. For his sake, I hope he realizes that. And re-entering next year is a bad move. He'd drop 10 slots EASY; then get less money.

 

[Ripleys]

doesn't he know who his coach is? This can't be very pleasing to him, and I think Crabby is making a big mistake not getting his butt to camp...

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm not sure how true this quote is or when it was made but Per MM's facebook:

Crabtree's apparent negotiating stance: "Reality is overrated. I want to get paid based on where some mock drafts had me going."

Again, not sure if this is true that he said that. But when are mocks considered "reality"?

Derek,did you hear him on KNBR this morning? (MM)

He said the same thing on air, but again, he said that's what is apparent, not a quote from Crabtree's camp.

MM also said:

They appear to be $7-$8M apart.

Niners are digging in, they have Morgan, Bruce, Hill and Battle.

Interview is on this page in the center column:

Matt Maiocco Talks About Crabtree

I hope Crabtree holds out and re-enters the draft. I think the 49rs can live without him. Josh Morgan, Jason hill should provide a very talented duo for the Niners for years to come. I would like to see the Niners just forget about him. At this point I would not sign this guy period to a contract. Let him take his thug posse to some other team next year. Long Time Niner Fan and could care less if Tree ever steps on the Field in the NFL.

I'm beginning to feel the same way. Your a long way from the fishbowl of Lubbock, Crabtree. Seriously though, I've completely changed my mind from yesterday. You can want a lot of money, that's cool; get what you CAN. There's no way he gets paid more $$ than DHB. For his sake, I hope he realizes that. And re-entering next year is a bad move. He'd drop 10 slots EASY; then get less money.

Considering that he would probably be the 3rd or 4th WR chosen in next year's draft, he's sure to fall at least that far.

 

[One]

I hope Crabtree holds out and re-enters the draft. I think the 49rs can live without him. Josh Morgan, Jason hill should provide a very talented duo for the Niners for years to come. I would like to see the Niners just forget about him. At this point I would not sign this guy period to a contract. Let him take his thug posse to some other team next year. Long Time Niner Fan and could care less if Tree ever steps on the Field in the NFL.

I agree and get the feeling Singletary wanted Oher all along, it's too bad.I'm sure he'll sign eventually, but Crabtree just doesn't seem to fit what SF's trying to do.

 

[kface]

another long time niner fan that says see you later crabtree...the guy is an idiot. I don't want to route for him so i hope he doesn't sign...

I really like morgan and hill as 1 and 2

 

[Cripster]

I would put Morgan, Hill & Jones out there and use Bruce until they all get up to speed. That's 1 vet who knows every trick in the book and 3 youngs guys who want to play. Better than a head case.

 

[GreenNGold]

If he does sit out the entire year, and I was San Francisco, I would draft him again next year and offer the league minimum, and continue to do so every single year until he either accepts or gives up.

Top draft picks are way overrated anyways, they might actually be helping their team by not locking up so much money on an unproven rookie and signing some good veterans instead.

 

[jamil]

when are these kids gonna learn not to let family members in with their business. especially a cousin.

 

[Minnewildsota]

If he does sit out the entire year, and I was San Francisco, I would draft him again next year and offer the league minimum, and continue to do so every single year until he either accepts or gives up.

Funnest thing I've read all day. Possibly all week.

 

[RUSF18]

If he can't even work out for another team, how is he expecting to improve his draft status?

 

[Deranged Hermit]

Silly question because it'll never happen, but what kind of compensation pick will SF get if Crabby sits out the year?

 

[zadok]

Silly question because it'll never happen, but what kind of compensation pick will SF get if Crabby sits out the year?

Nothing, as far as I know. They still own his rights for the year whether he signs or not.

 

[derek19]

doesn't he know who his coach is? This can't be very pleasing to him, and I think Crabby is making a big mistake not getting his butt to camp...

Well, its a sticky situation. I believe Singletarys first year, he was drafted in the 2nd round and felt he should have been drafted in the first round. AND actually had a 2 week hold out before he signed his contract.

 

[derek19]

Silly question because it'll never happen, but what kind of compensation pick will SF get if Crabby sits out the year?

Nothing, as far as I know. They still own his rights for the year whether he signs or not.

This is correct. He can't talk, workout or anything with any other team until the draft. So you think some team in next years draft will draft him in the top 5 without seeing him workout? I don't think so.

 

[derek19]

I'm not sure how true this quote is or when it was made but Per MM's facebook:

Crabtree's apparent negotiating stance: "Reality is overrated. I want to get paid based on where some mock drafts had me going."

Again, not sure if this is true that he said that. But when are mocks considered "reality"?

Derek,did you hear him on KNBR this morning? (MM)

He said the same thing on air, but again, he said that's what is apparent, not a quote from Crabtree's camp.

MM also said:

They appear to be $7-$8M apart.

Niners are digging in, they have Morgan, Bruce, Hill and Battle.

Interview is on this page in the center column:

Matt Maiocco Talks About Crabtree

Unfortunately, I live in TN and cannot listen to KNBR until they post the interview. Here is MM on TheAudible, http://bit.ly/10dRap

 

[Moniker]

If he does sit out the entire year, and I was San Francisco, I would draft him again next year and offer the league minimum, and continue to do so every single year until he either accepts or gives up.

Funnest thing I've read all day. Possibly all week.

lol, funny would be him entering next year's draft after the new cba puts a cap on the rookies

 

[BuckeyeArt]

doesn't he know who his coach is? This can't be very pleasing to him, and I think Crabby is making a big mistake not getting his butt to camp...

Well, its a sticky situation. I believe Singletarys first year, he was drafted in the 2nd round and felt he should have been drafted in the first round. AND actually had a 2 week hold out before he signed his contract.

Now that's funny. It's pretty tough for Singletary to say anything.

 

[jobarules]

Guess I shouldnt have bought that Crabtree jersey so soon

 

[NinerK]

doesn't he know who his coach is? This can't be very pleasing to him, and I think Crabby is making a big mistake not getting his butt to camp...

Well, its a sticky situation. I believe Singletarys first year, he was drafted in the 2nd round and felt he should have been drafted in the first round. AND actually had a 2 week hold out before he signed his contract.

Good info Derek, I don't know the details, but I do know that Singletary held out. Tough spot for him as a coach and former hold out.

 

[NinerK]

I'm not sure how true this quote is or when it was made but Per MM's facebook:

Crabtree's apparent negotiating stance: "Reality is overrated. I want to get paid based on where some mock drafts had me going."

Again, not sure if this is true that he said that. But when are mocks considered "reality"?

Derek,did you hear him on KNBR this morning? (MM)

He said the same thing on air, but again, he said that's what is apparent, not a quote from Crabtree's camp.

MM also said:

They appear to be $7-$8M apart.

Niners are digging in, they have Morgan, Bruce, Hill and Battle.

Interview is on this page in the center column:

Matt Maiocco Talks About Crabtree

Unfortunately, I live in TN and cannot listen to KNBR until they post the interview. Here is MM on TheAudible, http://bit.ly/10dRap

Huh? The interview is posted int he center column....just below the dumb songs one of the hosts does.

 

[Eminence]

In the event that he does hold out all season. Any chance that the 49ers attempt to trade away the rights to his contract? I mean I'd rather scoop up a 6th round pick, than nothing.

There's always the fear of Crabtree refusing to sign with his new team. But one would think if they traded for him, they'd be prepared to shell out the money.

Either way this doesn't sell great PR for Mr. Crabtree.

 

[drummer]

McGloughan has done really well on Day 1 of the draft.

 

[finito]

With Moreno signed, there could be movement for Crabtee now. At least they have a base to work off of from the 11th pick.

 

[sos32]

With Moreno signed, there could be movement for Crabtee now. At least they have a base to work off of from the 11th pick.

You mean the 12th pick

 

[CrossEyed]

doesn't he know who his coach is? This can't be very pleasing to him, and I think Crabby is making a big mistake not getting his butt to camp...

Well, its a sticky situation. I believe Singletarys first year, he was drafted in the 2nd round and felt he should have been drafted in the first round. AND actually had a 2 week hold out before he signed his contract.

Now that's funny. It's pretty tough for Singletary to say anything.

Different environment back then. No cap, no "slotting" for rookies. The guy needs to sign and get to camp.

 

[jdswan922]

Crabtree doesn't have much leverage here, which explains why rookies are underpaid.

Do you really think so?

Do you think Crabtree has leverage here?

Do you think rookies are underpaid?

I think Chase is trying point out that just because a player makes alot of money doesn't necessarily mean he is overpaid. If Crabtree (or any other rookie) was allowed to have 32 teams compete for his services rather than only 1, he could make significantly more money. Chase could explain his point much better than I can, though.

fixed

 

[jdswan922]

doesn't he know who his coach is? This can't be very pleasing to him, and I think Crabby is making a big mistake not getting his butt to camp...

Singletary was a holdout as a rookie too, so I think he understands, but that does not mean he won't make Crabtree work a little harder when he gets into camp...eta - sorry, did not see this was already posted...

 

[derek19]

Day whatever and still counting.

At this point I'm almost afraid for him to sign. The niners are not going to give him top five money or give him the same amount hyb received from the raiders. So if he does sign a contract the tenth pick is suppose to get, he'll probably holdout again after this season for more money. Oh well.

 

[derek19]

CSN EXCLUSIVE: 49ers GM speaks out on Michael Crabtree () August 7, 2009SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. - Comcast SportsNet's Mindi Bach reached out to the 49ers General Manager Scot McCloughan via email. McCloughan addressed Michael Crabtree's ongoing contract negotiations.Mindi: How would you characterize the negotiations with Crabtree’s representatives?Scot: "Talks are on-going daily in a positive manner." Mindi: How far apart/or close do you feel the 49ers and Crabtree’s representatives are to an agreement?Scot: "Not too far apart, need players around us to sign so agent sees the market."Mindi: Are reports that Crabtree is willing to sit out the entire 2009 season and re-enter the draft next season accurate?Scot: "Reports about sitting out are not accurate"For more on Michael Crabtree and the 49ers, tune in to SportNet Central, nightly at 6pm, 10:30pm and midnight.

Interesting. I hope this is true.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I think one wrench in Chase's logic is that the draft can work AGAINST teams and FOR rookies as well. There has been plenty of talk in recent years of bow difficult it is for teams at the top of the draft to trade down because of the contracts at the top. This is especially true in weaker drafts. The #1 overall pick isn't as good every single year and yet the contract grows every year. Also, a team may have a grade that makes a guy worth the 13th pick, but because of team needs and inability to trade down, a team is forced to take him at #9. Maybe nobody in the league had him at #9 but some teams had him at 12. In a free market, maybe he gets #11 money. But due to the way the draft works, he gets drafted at #9 and gets #9 money.

The system probably works in favor of the teams most often, but I think that it does benefit players at times as well. (Does anyone think DHB would have received that much money in a free market?)

 

[JohnnyU]

NFL Headlines

Report: Crabtree won't sign until September

A "highly-placed NFL source" recently told the San Jose Mercury News that Michael Crabtree isn't likely to sign until close to the 49ers' Sept. 13 season opener.

Both sides are entrenching. Crabtree isn't going to sit out the season, but his agent won't budge from his slot-busting demands until he's forced to. If Crabtree wants to sign before September, a change in representation may be his only option. Meanwhile, the outrageous demands have also the kept the No. 8, 9, and 11 picks from signing. Aug. 12 - 11:03 am et

Source: San Jose Mercury News

 

[massraider]

NFL Headlines Report: Crabtree won't sign until September A "highly-placed NFL source" recently told the San Jose Mercury News that Michael Crabtree isn't likely to sign until close to the 49ers' Sept. 13 season opener.Both sides are entrenching. Crabtree isn't going to sit out the season, but his agent won't budge from his slot-busting demands until he's forced to. If Crabtree wants to sign before September, a change in representation may be his only option. Meanwhile, the outrageous demands have also the kept the No. 8, 9, and 11 picks from signing. Aug. 12 - 11:03 am etSource: San Jose Mercury News

I would bet that Crabtree won't change agents. If he is willing to settle for the #10 slot money, Parker can get that deal done over a lunch. I'd still be surprised if it lasts till September.

 

[drew726]

As a Niner fan, I'm more excited for Scott McKillop and Glen Coffee than Crabtree because if Crabtree doesn't work out I can see Josh Morgan as a future #1.

 

[baconisgood]

Come on Chase, that is all in theory and hte premise it right, but does not apply here. He is a draft pick and his leverage is that he was taken in the 10th slot. He will automatically get paid more than most of the players that have been working at his postion without having played one down in the NFL. He's getting paid millions on pure potential. His leverage is that he wa taken in the slot and that is why the 49ers and every other team in the NFL pay their draft picks accordingly to their draft spot. If this was not the case, then a team could easily offer the #1 overall pick a vets minimum. Of course, that doesn't happen. Again, it's leverage in that a team has used a draft pick, especially if high one, on a player. That franchise is attaching themselves to that person to help them now and later down the road. Not the same leverage as a FA in demand, but they have leverage. It is what it is, but vets should be making more than rookies and everyone knows this is a flawed system, but the union doesn't want pull back on anyone getting money because they are afraid that the team's will not re-distribute that money to the other (Vet) players. To say they are underpaid is just plain silly...in standards for normal working people, but even for NFL players.

You need to change this to 'top rookie picks.'Because if you are a 2nd rounder, or late 1st, and play well, it isn't long before you are dramatically underpaid.There's really only about 10 players every year getting crazy money. This 'redistributed to the vets' thing sounds good, but it isn't going to make much of a difference.

The fact is that the NFL is not "real life". You get paid there for what you WILL do, not what you HAVE done. And virtually every good player from the 2nd-7th rounds gets royally screwed with their rookie contract.

Real life works this way to. If you have a 6$ an hour dishwashing job or are a partner in a law firm- you get hired to work and you sign yourself a contract or an agreement that details your compensation for that work. There is no weird dichotomy here.

 

[kface]

Boo-urns to this kid...boo-urns

its too bad the 49ers can't go back and repick. We could have used a lot of other players...

 

[massraider]

Come on Chase, that is all in theory and hte premise it right, but does not apply here. He is a draft pick and his leverage is that he was taken in the 10th slot. He will automatically get paid more than most of the players that have been working at his postion without having played one down in the NFL. He's getting paid millions on pure potential. His leverage is that he wa taken in the slot and that is why the 49ers and every other team in the NFL pay their draft picks accordingly to their draft spot. If this was not the case, then a team could easily offer the #1 overall pick a vets minimum. Of course, that doesn't happen. Again, it's leverage in that a team has used a draft pick, especially if high one, on a player. That franchise is attaching themselves to that person to help them now and later down the road. Not the same leverage as a FA in demand, but they have leverage. It is what it is, but vets should be making more than rookies and everyone knows this is a flawed system, but the union doesn't want pull back on anyone getting money because they are afraid that the team's will not re-distribute that money to the other (Vet) players. To say they are underpaid is just plain silly...in standards for normal working people, but even for NFL players.

You need to change this to 'top rookie picks.'Because if you are a 2nd rounder, or late 1st, and play well, it isn't long before you are dramatically underpaid.There's really only about 10 players every year getting crazy money. This 'redistributed to the vets' thing sounds good, but it isn't going to make much of a difference.

The fact is that the NFL is not "real life". You get paid there for what you WILL do, not what you HAVE done. And virtually every good player from the 2nd-7th rounds gets royally screwed with their rookie contract.

Real life works this way to. If you have a 6$ an hour dishwashing job or are a partner in a law firm- you get hired to work and you sign yourself a contract or an agreement that details your compensation for that work. There is no weird dichotomy here.

If you are a dishwasher, you don't sign anything. And if another restaurant wants to pay you three times as much, you can go there. And you can wash dishes, or be a lawyer, indefinitely. Careers in those fields average more than 4 years.

 

[CrossEyed]

NFL Headlines

Report: Crabtree won't sign until September

A "highly-placed NFL source" recently told the San Jose Mercury News that Michael Crabtree isn't likely to sign until close to the 49ers' Sept. 13 season opener.

Both sides are entrenching. Crabtree isn't going to sit out the season, but his agent won't budge from his slot-busting demands until he's forced to. If Crabtree wants to sign before September, a change in representation may be his only option. Meanwhile, the outrageous demands have also the kept the No. 8, 9, and 11 picks from signing. Aug. 12 - 11:03 am et

Source: San Jose Mercury News

This is just dumb. The 8, 9, and 11 guys are free to sign whenever they want. Just because Crabtree is being a blockhead doesn't mean they are required to follow suit.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

As a Niner fan, I'm more excited for Scott McKillop and Glen Coffee than Crabtree because if Crabtree doesn't work out I can see Josh Morgan as a future #1.

IF?(edited for spelling)