Culpepper to Atlanta? (1 Viewer)

[tppt]

They could ink him to an incentive laden deal.

I know I would, would you?

 

[Ed4252]

As a Culpepper owner, I would much rather like to see him start for Jax.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I'm sure Joey Harrington would love to see him again.

 

[vandyt]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

 

[Jason Wood]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

If Culpepper is healthy (which by most accounts he is), he's so far and away better than Joey Harrington it's akin to asking if The Beatles sold more records the The Ruttles.

 

[hephner]

FWIW: On NFL Total Access last night, Adam Schefter all but guaranteed that Culpepper will sign with Jax. Apparently they had already come to a 3-yr contract agreement, in principal, weeks ago, in anticipation of him eventually being released. Plus coaches reportedly already discussed the possibility of signing Culpepper with Leftwich and Garrard.

 

[Brutis]

If Cpep is healthy i dont see how he doesnt start over Leftwhich if he signs with Jax.

 

[Banger]

How about Volek to Atlanta?

 

[Obie Wan]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

If Culpepper is healthy (which by most accounts he is), he's so far and away better than Joey Harrington it's akin to asking if The Beatles sold more records the The Ruttles.

Culpepper's problems are in his head, not his leg.He can't read defenses and he can't run away from them anymore.He is more of a liability than an asset.

 

[Jason Wood]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

If Culpepper is healthy (which by most accounts he is), he's so far and away better than Joey Harrington it's akin to asking if The Beatles sold more records the The Ruttles.

Culpepper's problems are in his head, not his leg.He can't read defenses and he can't run away from them anymore.He is more of a liability than an asset.

Even if Culpepper never recovers his mobility, he's markedly better than Joey Harrington who is, quite possibly the worst quarterback in the league currently (of those who have actually played NFL snaps).

 

[Obie Wan]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

If Culpepper is healthy (which by most accounts he is), he's so far and away better than Joey Harrington it's akin to asking if The Beatles sold more records the The Ruttles.

Culpepper's problems are in his head, not his leg.He can't read defenses and he can't run away from them anymore.He is more of a liability than an asset.

Even if Culpepper never recovers his mobility, he's markedly better than Joey Harrington who is, quite possibly the worst quarterback in the league currently (of those who have actually played NFL snaps).

As bad as Joey is, he performed better than Culpepper in the same Miami offense.Culpepper can not process info fast enough to be effective in a real NFL offense. The only place he would be successful would be the playground offense in Atlanta. Too bad, Petrino wants to run a real offense.

 

[crimsonrebel]

Id like to see either him or Harrington start, so we can see the real worth of all those recievers Vick blames his passing stats on.

 

[Jason Wood]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

If Culpepper is healthy (which by most accounts he is), he's so far and away better than Joey Harrington it's akin to asking if The Beatles sold more records the The Ruttles.

Culpepper's problems are in his head, not his leg.He can't read defenses and he can't run away from them anymore.He is more of a liability than an asset.

Even if Culpepper never recovers his mobility, he's markedly better than Joey Harrington who is, quite possibly the worst quarterback in the league currently (of those who have actually played NFL snaps).

As bad as Joey is, he performed better than Culpepper in the same Miami offense.Culpepper can not process info fast enough to be effective in a real NFL offense. The only place he would be successful would be the playground offense in Atlanta. Too bad, Petrino wants to run a real offense.

I'm not sure that's accurate on any level.1) Culpepper clearly rushed back and wasn't 100% healthy2) Culpepper had a higher completion percentage3) Culpepper had a higher yards-per-attempt4) Culpepper had a -1 TD:INT ratio to Harrington's -3Even on a gimpy leg behind a bad offensive line and precious little practice time, Culpepper was better than Harrington in many metrics, and clearly not inferior in most others. Playing Devil's Advocate, how many NFL GMs do you think would choose Joey Harrington over Daunte Culpepper assuming Culpepper is 100% healthy? Anyone?

 

[JaxBill]

Woodrow, I'm not trying to defend Harrington but I can't but wonder if Culpepper will EVER be anything like he once was. I think Miami really risked his career by bringing him back early. Just because his knee can pass a physical doesn't mean he'll ever have the mobility he once had.

I'm really hoping that the Jags don't bring him in. I was sick enough last year of the Leftwich-Garrard and I'm not looking forward to the "Leftwich is our guy but Duante has him looking over his shoulder." The biggest problem this franchise has is that they have no long-term solution at QB and I think C-Pep would just prolong that.

Maybe I'm wrong and the guy can still roll out and throw on the run but I'd like to see that with my own eyes.

 

[Jason Wood]

Woodrow, I'm not trying to defend Harrington but I can't but wonder if Culpepper will EVER be anything like he once was. I think Miami really risked his career by bringing him back early. Just because his knee can pass a physical doesn't mean he'll ever have the mobility he once had. I'm really hoping that the Jags don't bring him in. I was sick enough last year of the Leftwich-Garrard and I'm not looking forward to the "Leftwich is our guy but Duante has him looking over his shoulder." The biggest problem this franchise has is that they have no long-term solution at QB and I think C-Pep would just prolong that. Maybe I'm wrong and the guy can still roll out and throw on the run but I'd like to see that with my own eyes.

Hey JaxBill,That's why I qualified my point as saying IF Culpepper is 100% healthy. That's a huge question mark to be sure. If he's not, all bets are off. But objectively if he IS, comparing Harrington to him makes little to no sense IMHO.

 

[Obie Wan]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

If Culpepper is healthy (which by most accounts he is), he's so far and away better than Joey Harrington it's akin to asking if The Beatles sold more records the The Ruttles.

Culpepper's problems are in his head, not his leg.He can't read defenses and he can't run away from them anymore.He is more of a liability than an asset.

Even if Culpepper never recovers his mobility, he's markedly better than Joey Harrington who is, quite possibly the worst quarterback in the league currently (of those who have actually played NFL snaps).

As bad as Joey is, he performed better than Culpepper in the same Miami offense.Culpepper can not process info fast enough to be effective in a real NFL offense. The only place he would be successful would be the playground offense in Atlanta. Too bad, Petrino wants to run a real offense.

I'm not sure that's accurate on any level.1) Culpepper clearly rushed back and wasn't 100% healthy2) Culpepper had a higher completion percentage3) Culpepper had a higher yards-per-attempt4) Culpepper had a -1 TD:INT ratio to Harrington's -3Even on a gimpy leg behind a bad offensive line and precious little practice time, Culpepper was better than Harrington in many metrics, and clearly not inferior in most others. Playing Devil's Advocate, how many NFL GMs do you think would choose Joey Harrington over Daunte Culpepper assuming Culpepper is 100% healthy? Anyone?

you're delusional.From your comments, it is obvious you did not watch him play last year. It was painful - regardless of what his stats show.you base your whole argument on IF he's healthy and able to play like he did in Minnesota.The days when his physical skills dominated are over. He can't outrun people and he can't run thru people anymore. He needs to function now like a real QB - and make quick decisions .Cam Cameron wasted no time in determining that Culpepper couldn't do it.

 

[Jason Wood]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

If Culpepper is healthy (which by most accounts he is), he's so far and away better than Joey Harrington it's akin to asking if The Beatles sold more records the The Ruttles.

Culpepper's problems are in his head, not his leg.He can't read defenses and he can't run away from them anymore.He is more of a liability than an asset.

Even if Culpepper never recovers his mobility, he's markedly better than Joey Harrington who is, quite possibly the worst quarterback in the league currently (of those who have actually played NFL snaps).

As bad as Joey is, he performed better than Culpepper in the same Miami offense.Culpepper can not process info fast enough to be effective in a real NFL offense. The only place he would be successful would be the playground offense in Atlanta. Too bad, Petrino wants to run a real offense.

I'm not sure that's accurate on any level.1) Culpepper clearly rushed back and wasn't 100% healthy2) Culpepper had a higher completion percentage3) Culpepper had a higher yards-per-attempt4) Culpepper had a -1 TD:INT ratio to Harrington's -3Even on a gimpy leg behind a bad offensive line and precious little practice time, Culpepper was better than Harrington in many metrics, and clearly not inferior in most others. Playing Devil's Advocate, how many NFL GMs do you think would choose Joey Harrington over Daunte Culpepper assuming Culpepper is 100% healthy? Anyone?

you're delusional.From your comments, it is obvious you did not watch him play last year. It was painful - regardless of what his stats show.you base your whole argument on IF he's healthy and able to play like he did in Minnesota.The days when his physical skills dominated are over. He can't outrun people and he can't run thru people anymore. He needs to function now like a real QB - and make quick decisions .Cam Cameron wasted no time in determining that Culpepper couldn't do it.

Well, the beauty of this "disagreement" is that we'll have the chance to see this play out on the field. Unless Culpepper's knee doesn't check out, I would bet any amount of money he will start for another NFL team in 2008 if not 2007. And then we'll have a chance to determine where he stacks up against his contemporaries.

 

[SSOG]

Thank god we have Jason Wood around to be the voice of reason here. Keep up the good work, Wood.

 

[Gopher State]

Being a MN homer and enjoyed watching Pepper play in the past I think he is missing two things that he needs to return to greatness:

The ability to run the ball like a running back, IF his knee is ok, I still think he will not run like he use to which helped to keep Defenses honest, I think he will change hisstyle, instead of throwing int's,he use to run the ball for 1st downs, I don't think mentally he can do this, time will tell.

A young Randy Moss, when Moss was in his prime no one could cover him, he would get double coverage, Pepper just throw it up and Moss would catch it, Mr. Moss also openned up the game for other WR's. I think Moss made Culpepper a great QB, more then Culpepper made Moss a great WR.

The question is Culpepper better then Joey H, I don't think either one is a starting QB for the NFL anymore, but it doesn't take much to be better then either of these guys, so flip a coin.

 

[David Yudkin]

If Cpep is healthy i dont see how he doesnt start over Leftwhich if he signs with Jax.

Del Rio has already said that C-Pep would be strictly a backup (assuming he keeps his word).

 

[Jason Wood]

If Cpep is healthy i dont see how he doesnt start over Leftwhich if he signs with Jax.

Del Rio has already said that C-Pep would be strictly a backup (assuming he keeps his word).

I have no reason to doubt Del Rio's veracity, and certainly based on Reggie Williams' comments when we spoke with him the lock room respects Leftwich, but you and I both know that Leftwich is on a SHORT leash. He's in the final year of his deal, has a new OC to contend with, and if they do bring Culpepper in, he obviously has designs on the job. I would be very surprised, shocked even, if Leftwich didn't start Week One, but I can't say that I'll be at all surprised if he doesn't finish out the year as the starter.

 

[SSOG]

A young Randy Moss, when Moss was in his prime no one could cover him, he would get double coverage, Pepper just throw it up and Moss would catch it, Mr. Moss also openned up the game for other WR's. I think Moss made Culpepper a great QB, more then Culpepper made Moss a great WR.

Please explain 2004. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

 

[vandyt]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

If Culpepper is healthy (which by most accounts he is), he's so far and away better than Joey Harrington it's akin to asking if The Beatles sold more records the The Ruttles.

Wasn't this FBG's position last year when you fellas ranked him in the preseason top 10 among QBs? Culpepper ISN"T healthy. He wasn't healthy last year, hes not this year.

 

[Unlucky]

Culpepper will be good when Randy Moss is catching his passes again. Until then, I'll pass.

 

[Unlucky]

A young Randy Moss, when Moss was in his prime no one could cover him, he would get double coverage, Pepper just throw it up and Moss would catch it, Mr. Moss also openned up the game for other WR's. I think Moss made Culpepper a great QB, more then Culpepper made Moss a great WR.

Please explain 2004. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Moss played that year. 13 games. Even the few he wasn't effective, his decoy ability opened things up. So Culpepper had a good game or two without Moss that year. Big deal. Please explain 2005. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

 

[BigRed]

I trust Culpepper's health almost as much as FT's or McNabbs'. IMO he's one good hit away from retiring - if that - and it wouldn't take long to happen if he plays. His career is pretty much over.

PS and oh btw: Harrington is better than Shaub.

 

[Routilla]

Say what you want about CPep but I will not draft him even as a #3QB.

 

[Rev]

I trust Culpepper's health almost as much as FT's or McNabbs'. IMO he's one good hit away from retiring - if that - and it wouldn't take long to happen if he plays. His career is pretty much over.

PS and oh btw: Harrington is better than Shaub.

Now there's something ya don't hear everyday.

 

[BigJim®]

The biggest problem this franchise has is that they have no long-term solution at QB and I think C-Pep would just prolong that.

He also could resolve it, depending on your definition of long-term. He's 30, and nearly 2 years removed from the surgery. I typically don't give a hoot about the Dolphins, but I'd love to see this saga blow up in Miami's face.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Lord have mercy, like bunch lil girls around here! Why does it have to be so extreme, either he the greatest or a total bum...is there no in between? Yes, R. Moss helped in the past...he also played pretty incredible too...without involving Moss. Is the guy that we saw in purple? No, but a healthy Cpep is surely not the terrible player that many of you are making him out to be. Is it national jump on the bandwagon day?

Oh and BTW, Cpep had a lot of help looking plain awful in MIA...the whole OFFENSE did on their own. They were offensive in more than one way. So, get off the cpep was the one and save it for the picture of Saban on your dart board!!!

 

[BigJim®]

A young Randy Moss, when Moss was in his prime no one could cover him, he would get double coverage, Pepper just throw it up and Moss would catch it, Mr. Moss also openned up the game for other WR's. I think Moss made Culpepper a great QB, more then Culpepper made Moss a great WR.

Please explain 2004. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Moss played that year. 13 games. Even the few he wasn't effective, his decoy ability opened things up. So Culpepper had a good game or two without Moss that year. Big deal.

Culpepper's 2004 stats were 69% Completion, 5123 total yards, 41 total TDs. Please tell me this decoy argument is schtick. No one is that good a decoy, and Culpepper's numbers were never this good even with a healthy Moss.

Please explain 2005. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Low hanging fruit. Let's see: McComb's was so cheap he let Linehan, the coach of the league's top rated offense walk, without negotiation. Without interviewing a single experienced Offensive Coordinator, McCombs elevated offensive line coach Steve Loney to that position. Because Red was in 'sell' mode and generally disinterested with paying a red cent for this franchise, Steve Loney retained responsibility for Offensive Line coaching. The Vikings immediately turned into a horrific offense. Regardless of the folklore, the Vikes offense was equally putrid after Brad Johnson took over. Linehan was critical in Daunte's development. This is not to give Daunte a pass; it's not a great thing that he needs a high degree of coaching direction. He probably will remain a bad QB unless he goes to a team with a bona fide offensive coordinator who can get his confidence level up.

 

[nysfl2]

People forget that during the Culpepper/Moss heyday, that the Vikes had one of the best O lines in all of football. And there was serious continuity and stability there for years. I think Culpepper and Moss each missed Jeff Christy more than they missed each other. Culpepper is at the point of his career where he is like a relief pitcher. A few innings and he's a solid contributor, try to make him go a full 9 innings and you expose his obvious weaknesses (i.e. lost a step/decision making/gimpy) The ideal place for Culpepper in my mind is a backup for Peyton Manning. The Colts have a tremendous O line, often overlooked because of all their blue chip stars. They also have the offensive weapons to cut Culpepper some breathing room. I think it would be terrifying, to have Manning gut you and bleed you for three quarters, then after the Colts got a big lead, have Culpepper just launch bomb after bomb on you. Culpepper is no rocket scientist. He'd fit well in the Colts scheme ( let the QB dictate the offense at his discretion) Culpepper needs a great O line to mask his current deficiencies. He needs that more than he needs a marquee WR.

So you're saying that Dungy's strategy should be to sit Peyton Manning for Culpepper in crunch time????? And that would help Indy win games??? Have you been drinking tonight?

 

[SSOG]

A young Randy Moss, when Moss was in his prime no one could cover him, he would get double coverage, Pepper just throw it up and Moss would catch it, Mr. Moss also openned up the game for other WR's. I think Moss made Culpepper a great QB, more then Culpepper made Moss a great WR.

Please explain 2004. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Moss played that year. 13 games. Even the few he wasn't effective, his decoy ability opened things up. So Culpepper had a good game or two without Moss that year. Big deal.

Culpepper's 2004 stats were 69% Completion, 5123 total yards, 41 total TDs. Please tell me this decoy argument is schtick. No one is that good a decoy, and Culpepper's numbers were never this good even with a healthy Moss.

Please explain 2005. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Low hanging fruit. Let's see: McComb's was so cheap he let Linehan, the coach of the league's top rated offense walk, without negotiation. Without interviewing a single experienced Offensive Coordinator, McCombs elevated offensive line coach Steve Loney to that position. Because Red was in 'sell' mode and generally disinterested with paying a red cent for this franchise, Steve Loney retained responsibility for Offensive Line coaching. The Vikings immediately turned into a horrific offense. Regardless of the folklore, the Vikes offense was equally putrid after Brad Johnson took over. Linehan was critical in Daunte's development. This is not to give Daunte a pass; it's not a great thing that he needs a high degree of coaching direction. He probably will remain a bad QB unless he goes to a team with a bona fide offensive coordinator who can get his confidence level up.

Don't forget the fact that Minnesota had two players outside of Culpepper who were worth a damn on the entire offense... and one of them was traded, while the other was out for the season (Matt Birk).Here's a little game for you: outside of Culpepper and Brad Johnson, guess how many pro bowls the Minnesota Vikings offensive players in 2005 have accounted for in their ENTIRE CAREERS. Stumped? The answer is one. Michael Bennett was a pro bowler in 2002. Outside of that, there wasn't a single Minnesota offensive player on the entire team who has made a pro bowl in his entire career (except for K-Rob, but he made the pro bowl as a special teamer). That's 4 RBs, 5 WRs, 4 TEs, and 5 offensive linemen, none of whom has ever been sent to honolulu. That offense was BAD, and to be honest, outside of the first two games, Culpepper wasn't as bad as everyone made him out to be. In the first two games, he was brutal, throwing 8 INTs and 0 TDs. Over the 4 games after that, he had 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 267 yards passing per game, and 25 yards rushing per game. Over a full season, that projects out to 24 TDs, 16 INTs, 4272 yards passing, and 400 yards rushing. Pretty spectacular numbers, if you ask me. The big problem is that he got injured before he had a chance to show erase that horrible start from everyone's mind.Sometimes, even good QBs have bad stretches (see Donovan McNabb's early 2003), but those bad stretches never last (see Donovan McNabb's late 2003).Also, I have to say, that whole "Randy Moss was such a great decoy that Daunte Culpepper accumulated more yards of offense than any player in the history of the entire NFL, even though Randy Moss himself failed to account for even 1,000 of those yards" argument doesn't hold water with me.

 

[Ed4252]

I really do not think we've seen the last of Culpepper:

Everyone should read this "Life of a Stud" article

http://footballguys.com/06herman_lifeofastud.php

 

[Bull Dozier]

A young Randy Moss, when Moss was in his prime no one could cover him, he would get double coverage, Pepper just throw it up and Moss would catch it, Mr. Moss also openned up the game for other WR's. I think Moss made Culpepper a great QB, more then Culpepper made Moss a great WR.

Please explain 2004. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

The direct corrolation to Moss' presence on the field and Culpepper's numbers are astounding in 2004. You can break down 2004 for Culpepper into three segments; Moss fully healthy, Moss out/decoy, and Moss semi healthy post injury. These segments were 5, 5 and 6 games respectively, so all were fairly even. Now, I would contend that Moss was a major reason why Culpepper had such a great year. If that were true, we could expect Culpepper's best numbers when Moss was fully healthy. I would think if Moss was not quite fully healthy, but still playing, Culpepper's numbers would take a dip. If Moss wasn't playing at all, or only appeared for a play or two, that Culpepper's numbers would be even worse. Let's see how the numbers break down:Moss Fully healthy (games 1-5, Moss injured game 5)Culpepper: 353 yards per game, 3.6 TDs/game, .6 INTs/game, 9.4 y/aMoss out/decoy (games 6-10)Culpepper: 235 yards per game, 1.8 TDs/game, .6 INTs/game, 7.1 y/aMoss back, not fully healthy (games 11-16)Culpepper: 295 yards per game, 2 TDs/game, .8 INTs/game, 9.1 y/aHow someone can look at these numbers and say Moss did not have a direct, significant impact on Culpepper's performance is out of their mind.However, granted, looking at Culpepper's line from when Moss is out, you can say "but hey, even when Moss was out, Culpepper was on pace for 3772 yards, 29 TDs, only 8 INTs, and 7.1 y/a. That's a great season." Sure is, but it's not a huge decrease from what he actually put up.

 

[menobrown]

FWIW: On NFL Total Access last night, Adam Schefter all but guaranteed that Culpepper will sign with Jax. Apparently they had already come to a 3-yr contract agreement, in principal, weeks ago, in anticipation of him eventually being released. Plus coaches reportedly already discussed the possibility of signing Culpepper with Leftwich and Garrard.

Could someone please explain to me how that is not tampering?

 

[BigJim®]

A young Randy Moss, when Moss was in his prime no one could cover him, he would get double coverage, Pepper just throw it up and Moss would catch it, Mr. Moss also openned up the game for other WR's. I think Moss made Culpepper a great QB, more then Culpepper made Moss a great WR.

Please explain 2004. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

The direct corrolation to Moss' presence on the field and Culpepper's numbers are astounding in 2004. You can break down 2004 for Culpepper into three segments; Moss fully healthy, Moss out/decoy, and Moss semi healthy post injury. These segments were 5, 5 and 6 games respectively, so all were fairly even. Now, I would contend that Moss was a major reason why Culpepper had such a great year. If that were true, we could expect Culpepper's best numbers when Moss was fully healthy. I would think if Moss was not quite fully healthy, but still playing, Culpepper's numbers would take a dip. If Moss wasn't playing at all, or only appeared for a play or two, that Culpepper's numbers would be even worse. Let's see how the numbers break down:Moss Fully healthy (games 1-5, Moss injured game 5)

Culpepper: 353 yards per game, 3.6 TDs/game, .6 INTs/game, 9.4 y/a

Moss out/decoy (games 6-10)

Culpepper: 235 yards per game, 1.8 TDs/game, .6 INTs/game, 7.1 y/a

Moss back, not fully healthy (games 11-16)

Culpepper: 295 yards per game, 2 TDs/game, .8 INTs/game, 9.1 y/a

How someone can look at these numbers and say Moss did not have a direct, significant impact on Culpepper's performance is out of their mind.

However, granted, looking at Culpepper's line from when Moss is out, you can say "but hey, even when Moss was out, Culpepper was on pace for 3772 yards, 29 TDs, only 8 INTs, and 7.1 y/a. That's a great season." Sure is, but it's not a huge decrease from what he actually put up.

For starters, your inclusion of game 5 in "Moss impacted" stats is flawed. In this 405 yard/5TD game for Culpepper, he lost Moss before halftime. Three of the TDs and 250 of the passing yards occured after Moss was showering up. I was at the game, and Culpepper was on fire, with or without Moss, against a god awful defense that yielded a total of 605 yards. Culpepper also tossed 5 TDs against a lowly Houston defense during that stretch; had Culpepper faced Houston while Moss was out, could that have turned out pretty good? Anyway, those 2 games are 800 of the passing yards and 10 of the 18 TDs you are crediting toward "Moss impact" and that doesn't seem right. Looking at stats over a portion of the season bothers me and I'd go so far as to call them pointless; there's far more that goes into what occured over a several game stretch, from matchups to game-by-game particularities, such as sitting on a lead or playing from behind.. That seems far more pertinent than whether Moss was healthy.

Also, I don't know why you would need to go through all that trouble comparing portions of 2004. It's not as if Culpepper/Moss had one year together. Culpepper was throwing to a healthy Moss ever since 2000. He was obviously great in 2000, below average in 2001, average in 2002, good in 2003. Each of those years Moss was healthy. But Culpepper played out of this world in 2004, with and without Moss. To me that is far more indicative of Culpepper growing into the position and gaining confidence in what Linehan was selling. It just doesn't make sense to go point to a "Moss factor" that didn't similarly inflate Culpepper's stats in previous seasons. If Moss alone made Daunte in 2004, why was it an anomaly from their other full seasons together?

It never ceases to amaze me how Viking fans find every way imaginable to discount Culpepper's successes. Again, I'm not giving Culpepper a complete pass. He was absolutelty frustrating at times. I do hope he ends up in a situation where he gets better coaching than he got in Minnesota.

 

[Jason Wood]

FWIW: On NFL Total Access last night, Adam Schefter all but guaranteed that Culpepper will sign with Jax. Apparently they had already come to a 3-yr contract agreement, in principal, weeks ago, in anticipation of him eventually being released. Plus coaches reportedly already discussed the possibility of signing Culpepper with Leftwich and Garrard.

Could someone please explain to me how that is not tampering?

I have no opinion on whether this story has any truth to it, but it wouldn't be tampering if the Dolphins gave Culpepper's agent permission to negotiate in good faith.

 

[BigJim®]

FWIW: On NFL Total Access last night, Adam Schefter all but guaranteed that Culpepper will sign with Jax. Apparently they had already come to a 3-yr contract agreement, in principal, weeks ago, in anticipation of him eventually being released. Plus coaches reportedly already discussed the possibility of signing Culpepper with Leftwich and Garrard.

Could someone please explain to me how that is not tampering?

I have no opinion on whether this story has any truth to it, but it wouldn't be tampering if the Dolphins gave Culpepper's agent permission to negotiate in good faith.

Insanely, Culpepper has no agent. But your point is right, he may have been given permission. I do find that unlikely since he publicly warned teams who were interested in him not to trade for him and to await his release. It's hard to imagine the team would let a guy negotiate with other teams when he is undermining its ability to trade him.

 

[Yo Eleven]

At the end of a segment this morning on Fox Sports Radio, the host asked Adam Schefter the likelihood of Culpepper going to Jacksonville. Schefter stated that it wasn't likely. Well, the host let Adam go at that point and didn't further the dialogue to ask where he did see him going. No links, just what I heard on the radio.

 

[SSOG]

A young Randy Moss, when Moss was in his prime no one could cover him, he would get double coverage, Pepper just throw it up and Moss would catch it, Mr. Moss also openned up the game for other WR's. I think Moss made Culpepper a great QB, more then Culpepper made Moss a great WR.

Please explain 2004. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

The direct corrolation to Moss' presence on the field and Culpepper's numbers are astounding in 2004. You can break down 2004 for Culpepper into three segments; Moss fully healthy, Moss out/decoy, and Moss semi healthy post injury. These segments were 5, 5 and 6 games respectively, so all were fairly even. Now, I would contend that Moss was a major reason why Culpepper had such a great year. If that were true, we could expect Culpepper's best numbers when Moss was fully healthy. I would think if Moss was not quite fully healthy, but still playing, Culpepper's numbers would take a dip. If Moss wasn't playing at all, or only appeared for a play or two, that Culpepper's numbers would be even worse. Let's see how the numbers break down:Moss Fully healthy (games 1-5, Moss injured game 5)Culpepper: 353 yards per game, 3.6 TDs/game, .6 INTs/game, 9.4 y/aMoss out/decoy (games 6-10)Culpepper: 235 yards per game, 1.8 TDs/game, .6 INTs/game, 7.1 y/aMoss back, not fully healthy (games 11-16)Culpepper: 295 yards per game, 2 TDs/game, .8 INTs/game, 9.1 y/aHow someone can look at these numbers and say Moss did not have a direct, significant impact on Culpepper's performance is out of their mind.However, granted, looking at Culpepper's line from when Moss is out, you can say "but hey, even when Moss was out, Culpepper was on pace for 3772 yards, 29 TDs, only 8 INTs, and 7.1 y/a. That's a great season." Sure is, but it's not a huge decrease from what he actually put up.

Of course Moss had an IMPACT. Moss was a phenomenal WR. Phenomenal WRs make their QBs better. That's what makes them phenomenal WRs in the first place. If a QB loses a HoF-caliber WR, his play *SHOULD* suffer. The point remains that with absolutely no surrounding talent whatsoever, without his HoF WR, C'Pep was on pace for a phenominal season (credit him with the 250/3 he threw in the half that Moss missed and he was on pace for 4145/35/8, and THAT'S IGNORING HIS RUSHING NUMBERS, which would probably be another 300-400 yards). Oh yeah, poor Daunte Culpepper, without Moss he wouldn't have been anything at all that year. What a mediocre QB. Look, Jerry Rice is a better WR than Randy Moss. I don't think anyone is going to argue that. Steve Young and Joe Montana are two of the best QBs to ever play the game. Young and Montana played over a dozen FULL SEASONS with Jerry Rice (and way more surrounding talent to boot) and never produced as much as Daunte Culpepper did with half of a Hall of Famer and a bunch of stiffs in 2004. And yet somehow Daunte Culpepper is a mediocre QB who was only good because of Randy Moss, while Steve Young and Joe Montana, who did less with more, are two of the best QBs to ever play football? Someone needs to explain this to me.I'm not saying that Daunte Culpepper is a HoFer, or that he's as good as Young/Montana. I'm just saying that it is so amazingly ludicrous to suggest that Randy Moss was even primarily responsible for Culpepper's 2004. Culpepper had WAY more to do with his 2004 season than Randy Moss did. If Culpepper was even "average", 2004 doesn't happen. End of story.Whether Culpepper will ever be good again is up for debate, sure... but as for whether he was ever good in the first place? No debate. Despite everyone's attempts to marginalize his accomplishments, Culpepper was, for a short span there before his injury, a truly elite QB.

 

[CravenM]

Let me be blunt:

Bringing in Culpepper to Atlanta gets Al Sharpton off the "Arthur Blank is a racist" rant from minute 1.

 

[EzCrash]

The idea of C-Pep going to Atlanta just hit me on my way home from work and I was about to post the idea myself on the boards here. lol

 

[Bull Dozier]

For starters, your inclusion of game 5 in "Moss impacted" stats is flawed. In this 405 yard/5TD game for Culpepper, he lost Moss before halftime. Three of the TDs and 250 of the passing yards occured after Moss was showering up. I was at the game, and Culpepper was on fire, with or without Moss, against a god awful defense that yielded a total of 605 yards. Culpepper also tossed 5 TDs against a lowly Houston defense during that stretch; had Culpepper faced Houston while Moss was out, could that have turned out pretty good? Anyway, those 2 games are 800 of the passing yards and 10 of the 18 TDs you are crediting toward "Moss impact" and that doesn't seem right. Looking at stats over a portion of the season bothers me and I'd go so far as to call them pointless; there's far more that goes into what occured over a several game stretch, from matchups to game-by-game particularities, such as sitting on a lead or playing from behind.. That seems far more pertinent than whether Moss was healthy. Also, I don't know why you would need to go through all that trouble comparing portions of 2004. It's not as if Culpepper/Moss had one year together. Culpepper was throwing to a healthy Moss ever since 2000. He was obviously great in 2000, below average in 2001, average in 2002, good in 2003. Each of those years Moss was healthy. But Culpepper played out of this world in 2004, with and without Moss. To me that is far more indicative of Culpepper growing into the position and gaining confidence in what Linehan was selling. It just doesn't make sense to go point to a "Moss factor" that didn't similarly inflate Culpepper's stats in previous seasons. If Moss alone made Daunte in 2004, why was it an anomaly from their other full seasons together?It never ceases to amaze me how Viking fans find every way imaginable to discount Culpepper's successes. Again, I'm not giving Culpepper a complete pass. He was absolutelty frustrating at times. I do hope he ends up in a situation where he gets better coaching than he got in Minnesota.

You make a fair point re: the New Orleans game and the number he put up after Randy'y injury. My only response to that is my assessment of Culpepper's strongest point. I've alwasy said when debating Culpepper that I think Culpepper, pre-injury, was probably one of the best QBs in the league with a lead. When he was playing good, with confidence, secure with a lead, he was a monster. Confidence always was the key for him. He had a huge lead and was playing well when Moss went down. He kept "rolling." That's no surprise to me, since that is where he plays his best.We'll have to agree to disagree about the validity of breaking down the season and looking at Moss' impact. To me, when it happened, it was clear what was going on. I watched every game and made this observation. Looking back at the numbers, it supports what I was thinking. Neither the numbers not my observations are conclusive proof of anything, but they convince me.Regarding Culpepper's prevous years, you say Moss didn't enflate his stats previous. I contend that Moss did inflate his stats each and every year of Culpeper's career in MN. That's my whole premise. 2004 was the first year Culpepper played a single game without Moss. We've seen plenty of games when Moss played without Culpepper, and he performed with every other QB he played with (save Spergeon Wynn). Culpepper had Moss every game he played until 2004, so I thought it valid to compare the in season games. Similarly in 2005, Culpepper's performance was poor until his inury. He played poorly in Mia until he was shut down. This is all further supporting evidence in my mind to the link, until I see Culpepper play well without someone of Moss' capabilities.Culpepper was a polarizing figure for the Vikes. Certainly not everyone in MN discounted what he did. I've had the debate many times with fans, and I find just as many people who credit Culpepper for what he did than write off his perfomances. Not sure what to say about that. I watched just about every game he played. Other people can have their own opinions, of course, but until he proves me wrong in another city I feel I have a made a good assessment of what kind of QB he is/was.

 

[BigJim®]

We'll have to agree to disagree about the validity of breaking down the season and looking at Moss' impact. To me, when it happened, it was clear what was going on. I watched every game and made this observation. Looking back at the numbers, it supports what I was thinking. Neither the numbers not my observations are conclusive proof of anything, but they convince me.

Yes, agree to disagree. I don't think it's fair to evaluate the team, much less an individual player, when a key cog is out. The normal playbook is thrown out the window, the team may have decided to try to establish the run since a key WR was out and replaced by Kelly Campbell(!). It would be interesting to look at how QBs who lose their #1 WR are impacted statwise generally. To me, this doesn't necessarily mean the QB is "carried" so to speak by the WR. Also, as you mentioned it is not as if Culpepper completely tanked. The passing game in general should be expected to take a hit without a star player on the field. I'll bet our rushing YPC went down to.

Regarding Culpepper's prevous years, you say Moss didn't enflate his stats previous. I contend that Moss did inflate his stats each and every year of Culpeper's career in MN. That's my whole premise. 2004 was the first year Culpepper played a single game without Moss. We've seen plenty of games when Moss played without Culpepper, and he performed with every other QB he played with (save Spergeon Wynn). Culpepper had Moss every game he played until 2004, so I thought it valid to compare the in season games. Similarly in 2005, Culpepper's performance was poor until his inury. He played poorly in Mia until he was shut down. This is all further supporting evidence in my mind to the link, until I see Culpepper play well without someone of Moss' capabilities.

It goes without saying you have a very, very low estimation of Daunte if you believe all that. Agree to disagree here to. For me the biggest change in Culpepper in 2004 was his confidence, his belief in Linehan, and taking significantly greater care of the ball. Moss didn't impact those things in 2004, IMHO. He was a benefactor getting 13 TDs in limited play. At the risk of turning this debate on its head, I'll also mention I think people are greatly exaggerrating Moss' decoy factor. Time and time again I've read quotes from opponents/writers that it was never any secret at all when a play wasn't called for Moss. He'd run to the line when the play went to him and he lollygagged (both pre and post snap) when it didn't. That's further evidence of how overblown this Moss factor is. Lastly, it's quite maddening when I see people refer to 2005. You're a Vike fan, you know exactly what happened to our offense in 2005 and there is little reason to search for answers here. Daunte wasn't body snatched and replaced with another human being. The offensive coaching was lopped at the neck, and it's frustrating how that's always ignored. Trying to restrain my sarcasm here, what offense is Steve Loney coordinating this season?

Culpepper was a polarizing figure for the Vikes. Certainly not everyone in MN discounted what he did. I've had the debate many times with fans, and I find just as many people who credit Culpepper for what he did than write off his perfomances. Not sure what to say about that. I watched just about every game he played. Other people can have their own opinions, of course, but until he proves me wrong in another city I feel I have a made a good assessment of what kind of QB he is/was.

Well, you can search the Viking archives and not find a season like 2004 from a Viking QB. In fact, you can scour the NFL archives and maybe find a couple comparable seasons. From my perspective, coaching, and more particularly lack of desire to even look for qualified candidates under the McCombs regime, undermined the product we saw on the field more than any other factor. It seems like other fan-bases are more aware of the nexus between a cruddy product on the field and coaching. Sure we had some coaching gripes from fans, but nowhere near what should be expected when Offensive Line coaches were summarily elevated on the totem pole to avoid costs. It's blatant that it's going to impact on field performance, particularly with fragile players like Culpepper. That doesn't mean the player can't be a stud with good coaching, as Culepper showed in 2000/2004.

 

[Sidewinder]

Some pertinent comments from October 2006:

What's wrong with Culpepper?

Dolphins coach Nick Saban turned to his insurance policy, backup quarterback Joey Harrington, Sunday in 1-4 Miami's loss to the New England Patriots. And Saban will stick with Harrington for the foreseeable future.

Daunte Culpepper's throwing shoulder is hurting, but Saban indicated Culpepper's limited mobility was hurting the team and was the reason for his benching. The Miami Herald reported that Saban and Culpepper had a heated argument Friday, the day after Culpepper showed up on Miami's injury report.

"I feel like we really have to improve his mobility," Saban told reporters Sunday.

One telling number that emerged from Miami's latest loss was the one time the Patriots sacked Harrington. After Culpepper's league-worst 21 sacks in the Dolphins' first four games, a change was needed according to two respected league analysts.

"I was giving him the benefit of the doubt coming off the knee surgery, but we've gone through four weeks, and I haven't seen improvement," ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski said of Culpepper. "The ball is not coming out of his hand. When he hits his back foot, he's double clutching. He's waiting for his receivers to get open. When you do that in this league, it's too late.

"I don't think he trusts the system, his offensive line and his receivers yet."

Pat Kirwan, a Sirius radio analyst, tracked Culpepper's indecisiveness to the seven games before he suffered his major knee injury last October.

"It's a bad number when you add 21 sacks this season to the 31 sacks he had in the seven games he played in Minnesota before the knee injury," Kirwan says. "It makes you wonder, 'What is the guy without Randy Moss, who drew rolled, Cover-2 coverage on every play?' Daunte saw the same look all the time, and he has developed bad habits from that. He never fully developed as a quarterback."

Kirwan doesn't think all of the problems lie with the Dolphins' personnel, either.

"That Miami line is pretty much the same line with four of five starters back that Gus Frerotte won six straight games late last year behind. I think Nick Saban will fix Daunte. But it's going to take a lot of time to fix."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...fl-report_x.htm

 

[Traders2001]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

If Culpepper is healthy (which by most accounts he is), he's so far and away better than Joey Harrington it's akin to asking if The Beatles sold more records the The Ruttles.

Are you joking , Culpepper biggest assett was his mobility ( That s the only reason he was so effective passing the ball , no one could tackle the guy ) Now that he lost 75% of it ( And it wont be back ) he is a worthless QB back up at best .

 

[Yitbos69]

Is Culpepper an upgrade over Harrington at this point? If I were ATL, Id let JAX sign Culpepper and trade for David Garrard, who obviously won't be sticking around should they sign 'Pepper.

If Culpepper is healthy (which by most accounts he is), he's so far and away better than Joey Harrington it's akin to asking if The Beatles sold more records the The Ruttles.

Are you joking , Culpepper biggest assett was his mobility ( That s the only reason he was so effective passing the ball , no one could tackle the guy ) Now that he lost 75% of it ( And it wont be back ) he is a worthless QB back up at best .

Where do you come up with 75% loss in mobility. Out of thin air I am sure! Cpep has one of the best arms in the league and has been very accurate his entire career. Can we have a debate without 62% of the posters making up stats? If Cpep is healthy he will be a Top QB in the NFL.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Yes, agree to disagree. I don't think it's fair to evaluate the team, much less an individual player, when a key cog is out. The normal playbook is thrown out the window, the team may have decided to try to establish the run since a key WR was out and replaced by Kelly Campbell(!).

Agree to disagree, but to be fair, Moss was replaced by Marcus Robinson in the starting lineup, not Kelly Campbell.

At the risk of turning this debate on its head, I'll also mention I think people are greatly exaggerrating Moss' decoy factor. Time and time again I've read quotes from opponents/writers that it was never any secret at all when a play wasn't called for Moss. He'd run to the line when the play went to him and he lollygagged (both pre and post snap) when it didn't. That's further evidence of how overblown this Moss factor is.

If defensive teams knew when he was and wasn't getting the ball, how does that account for his tremendous numbers? The story quoted a few posts above addresses that better than I can anyway, so I won't argue this point strenuously.

Lastly, it's quite maddening when I see people refer to 2005. You're a Vike fan, you know exactly what happened to our offense in 2005 and there is little reason to search for answers here. Daunte wasn't body snatched and replaced with another human being. The offensive coaching was lopped at the neck, and it's frustrating how that's always ignored. Trying to restrain my sarcasm here, what offense is Steve Loney coordinating this season?

It's probably as maddening for you as it is for me when people point to Culpepper's 2004 season, yet fail to acknowledge how much the rule changes contributed to his success as well. Several players had career years that year in the passing game. Culpepper's year cannot be looked at in a vacuum.

Sure we had some coaching gripes from fans, but nowhere near what should be expected when Offensive Line coaches were summarily elevated on the totem pole to avoid costs. It's blatant that it's going to impact on field performance, particularly with fragile players like Culpepper. That doesn't mean the player can't be a stud with good coaching, as Culepper showed in 2000/2004.

I had high hopes for Tice, up until the Randy Ratio. At first glance it was obvious that Tice was looking at things backwards. It was plain to see then that Tice, selling himself as some sort of thinking man's coach was preposterous. I don't think anyone ever defended Loney, or thought he was anything more than a money saving move. What was his only OC job before the Vikes? Iowa State? Obviously that played a role in the teams collapse in 2005. But, when I evaluate Culpepper's performance that year, I'll never forget his quote after game 3 or 4 when he said "this team is still looking for its identity." Picture Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Donovan McNabb or any other franchise QB saying their own team was still looking for its identity. Culpepper is not a leader, cannot play with confidence unless he is surrounded by supremem talent and the optimal situation.If he finds himself on a team with a great O-line, great receivers, and a good offensive coach, he has a chance to succeed, but if he's missing any of these ingredients, he has no chance in my opinion. Great players, on the other hand, don't need everything to be perfect to suceed.

 

[fantasyballa]

How about Volek to Atlanta?

I got some inside scoop on that...and the word is that SD want's Volek in place for their Championship run just in case something happens to Rivers.