Culpepper's injury = a blessing in disguise (1 Viewer)

[TenTimes]

4-0 now

can't wait to hear the excuses this week. Let me guess...it was only the pitiful Cleveland Browns? Yeah, and Culpepper was 2-5. In other words, they were losing to teams like the Browns when Culpepper was in.

Hello, here are the teams the vikings lost to:Tampa Bay 7-4

Cincinnati 8-3

Atlanta 7-4

Chicago 8-3

Carolina 8-3

Get a clue.

 

[madviking10]

4-0 now

can't wait to hear the excuses this week. Let me guess...it was only the pitiful Cleveland Browns? Yeah, and Culpepper was 2-5. In other words, they were losing to teams like the Browns when Culpepper was in.

Hello, here are the teams the vikings lost to:Tampa Bay 7-4

Cincinnati 8-3

Atlanta 7-4

Chicago 8-3

Carolina 8-3

Get a clue.

 

[jevy]

Let him pat himself on the back for 'calling' this one.After all, he rarely gets anything right.

 

[Preacher 1]

I'd post the record of the teams that the Vikings have beaten with Johnson at QB, but that would be like piling on.

 

[jwvdcw]

4-0 now

can't wait to hear the excuses this week. Let me guess...it was only the pitiful Cleveland Browns? Yeah, and Culpepper was 2-5. In other words, they were losing to teams like the Browns when Culpepper was in.

Hello, here are the teams the vikings lost to:Tampa Bay 7-4

Cincinnati 8-3

Atlanta 7-4

Chicago 8-3

Carolina 8-3

Get a clue.

Please show me where any of you posted that the Vikes weren't that bad of a team after 7 games and that it was only due to their schedule. Please show me one post saying that you think the Vikes were going to turn it around against an easier 2nd half schedule.Yes, looking back, that wasn't an easy start to the season. But decent teams win at least one or two of those games, particularly ones at home.

Anyone who claims that the Vikes aren't a much better team the past 4 weeks than the first 7 is kidding themselves.

 

[jwvdcw]

Let him pat himself on the back for 'calling' this one.

After all, he rarely gets anything right.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm usually too much of a homer with any Washington/Maryland area team, but I'll put my track record on projections up against anyone. My biggest predictions this year was that Culpepper would suck without Moss and that if Moss was healthy Collins would do very well. Please show me some wrong predictions of mine, and I'll be able to show you a right one like Culpepper or Boldin in his rookie year for every one. Or better yet, show me some good predictions that you have made before you start critisizing me.

 

[Maelstrom]

I think two things are clear - the OLine STILL isn't very good, but it IS getting better as Tice shuffle's the line and brings in a couple FAs. Two - it was gonna take the defense some time to gel, and it seems to be gelling at the right time. Again, they aren't great, but they are much better than earlier in the year.Not too mention that KRob is learning the playbook and getting more involved in the passing game.I don't think the results would have been very different with a healthy Culpepper as well. We probably won't know how much the injury was affecting Culpepper either.Jwwwjjsjsjjwwjjwjwjw - you can believe you "called" it, but I think thats at the expense of being blind to the rest of the changes in the team.

 

[GuppiesDraftManningNumberOne]

Let him pat himself on the back for 'calling' this one.

After all, he rarely gets anything right.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm usually too much of a homer with any Washington/Maryland area team, but I'll put my track record on projections up against anyone. My biggest predictions this year was that Culpepper would suck without Moss and that if Moss was healthy Collins would do very well. Please show me some wrong predictions of mine, and I'll be able to show you a right one like Culpepper or Boldin in his rookie year for every one. Or better yet, show me some good predictions that you have made before you start critisizing me.

You are drawing a false conclusion. There were several major changes to the Vikings offense this year, including the loss of Randy Moss. To say Culpepper was sucking only because Moss left is inane.Collins isn't doing any better with Moss than he did with Toomer/Hilliard.

 

[jwvdcw]

I think two things are clear - the OLine STILL isn't very good, but it IS getting better as Tice shuffle's the line and brings in a couple FAs.

Two - it was gonna take the defense some time to gel, and it seems to be gelling at the right time. Again, they aren't great, but they are much better than earlier in the year.

Not too mention that KRob is learning the playbook and getting more involved in the passing game.

I don't think the results would have been very different with a healthy Culpepper as well. We probably won't know how much the injury was affecting Culpepper either.

Jwwwjjsjsjjwwjjwjwjw - you can believe you "called" it, but I think thats at the expense of being blind to the rest of the changes in the team.

So just magically, as soon as BJ got into the starting lineup, all of these things came together?This is the same type of argument I've had before when I say that Vick is a top 5 QB and that Brady is the best QB in the league- winning games is what matters to me regarding QBs. Thats the bottom line. And when certain QBs always seem to win, I tend to think that theres more to it than blind luck. I'm not surprised that I keep having to fight this fight, as on a fantasy football board there are bound to be people that overrate stats and big numbers when compared to winning.

 

[jwvdcw]

Let him pat himself on the back for 'calling' this one.

After all, he rarely gets anything right.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm usually too much of a homer with any Washington/Maryland area team, but I'll put my track record on projections up against anyone. My biggest predictions this year was that Culpepper would suck without Moss and that if Moss was healthy Collins would do very well. Please show me some wrong predictions of mine, and I'll be able to show you a right one like Culpepper or Boldin in his rookie year for every one. Or better yet, show me some good predictions that you have made before you start critisizing me.

You are drawing a false conclusion. There were several major changes to the Vikings offense this year, including the loss of Randy Moss. To say Culpepper was sucking only because Moss left is inane.Collins isn't doing any better with Moss than he did with Toomer/Hilliard.

I'm not saying thats the only reason. That was my main reason that I gave in the preseason for why DC would suck this year. I was right on my prediction that DC would suck.Kerry Collins was ranked as the #5 QB in my main league, although the scoring isn't ordinary(gives big bonuses for longer TDs) behind only P Manning, Brady, C Palmer, and McNabb in that order. I'm not sure if Kerry has ever ranked in the top 5 before, but for you to say that he is not doing any better than in the past is wrong imho.

 

[Hinezer]

I think two things are clear - the OLine STILL isn't very good, but it IS getting better as Tice shuffle's the line and brings in a couple FAs. 

Two - it was gonna take the defense some time to gel, and it seems to be gelling at the right time.  Again, they aren't great, but they are much better than earlier in the year.

Not too mention that KRob is learning the playbook and getting more involved in the passing game.

I don't think the results would have been very different with a healthy Culpepper as well.  We probably won't know how much the injury was affecting Culpepper either.

Jwwwjjsjsjjwwjjwjwjw - you can believe you "called" it, but I think thats at the expense of being blind to the rest of the changes in the team.

So just magically, as soon as BJ got into the starting lineup, all of these things came together?This is the same type of argument I've had before when I say that Vick is a top 5 QB and that Brady is the best QB in the league- winning games is what matters to me regarding QBs. Thats the bottom line. And when certain QBs always seem to win, I tend to think that theres more to it than blind luck. I'm not surprised that I keep having to fight this fight, as on a fantasy football board there are bound to be people that overrate stats and big numbers when compared to winning.

What parts of the Vikings team have 'come together'? The defense and special teams. They won the Giants game and they set Brad up with a short field on every TD today. The offense has been average to below average with Johnson as QB.

 

[Da Guru]

I think two things are clear - the OLine STILL isn't very good, but it IS getting better as Tice shuffle's the line and brings in a couple FAs. 

Two - it was gonna take the defense some time to gel, and it seems to be gelling at the right time.  Again, they aren't great, but they are much better than earlier in the year.

Not too mention that KRob is learning the playbook and getting more involved in the passing game.

I don't think the results would have been very different with a healthy Culpepper as well.  We probably won't know how much the injury was affecting Culpepper either.

Jwwwjjsjsjjwwjjwjwjw - you can believe you "called" it, but I think thats at the expense of being blind to the rest of the changes in the team.

So just magically, as soon as BJ got into the starting lineup, all of these things came together?This is the same type of argument I've had before when I say that Vick is a top 5 QB and that Brady is the best QB in the league- winning games is what matters to me regarding QBs. Thats the bottom line. And when certain QBs always seem to win, I tend to think that theres more to it than blind luck. I'm not surprised that I keep having to fight this fight, as on a fantasy football board there are bound to be people that overrate stats and big numbers when compared to winning.

What parts of the Vikings team have 'come together'? The defense and special teams. They won the Giants game and they set Brad up with a short field on every TD today. The offense has been average to below average with Johnson as QB.

Johnson has turned it around and is a winner just like Vick.

 

[Preacher 1]

I think two things are clear - the OLine STILL isn't very good, but it IS getting better as Tice shuffle's the line and brings in a couple FAs.

Two - it was gonna take the defense some time to gel, and it seems to be gelling at the right time. Again, they aren't great, but they are much better than earlier in the year.

Not too mention that KRob is learning the playbook and getting more involved in the passing game.

I don't think the results would have been very different with a healthy Culpepper as well. We probably won't know how much the injury was affecting Culpepper either.

Jwwwjjsjsjjwwjjwjwjw - you can believe you "called" it, but I think thats at the expense of being blind to the rest of the changes in the team.

So just magically, as soon as BJ got into the starting lineup, all of these things came together?This is the same type of argument I've had before when I say that Vick is a top 5 QB and that Brady is the best QB in the league- winning games is what matters to me regarding QBs. Thats the bottom line. And when certain QBs always seem to win, I tend to think that theres more to it than blind luck. I'm not surprised that I keep having to fight this fight, as on a fantasy football board there are bound to be people that overrate stats and big numbers when compared to winning.

You obviously know something about football, but you seem to refuse to look at the timing of Johnson coming in. The offensive line was HORRIBLE when Culpepper was playing, the center position was essentially a revolving door to the QB. Fowler comes in and plays better, the guards are shuffled and play better...amazingly, Johnson has some time to throw!The defense coordinator get his head out of his behind and simplifies the defense to take advantage of thei abilities...that silly 3-4 was abandoned and Williams gets healthy. None of these things are Johnson's doing, yet all happened to make him the "winning" QB.

I have no doubt that the record would be the same with Culpepper behind center...it's the team winning, not the QB. The main difference is that Johnson will not try to do too much, he'll play within himself.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Kerry Collins was ranked as the #5 QB in my main league, although the scoring isn't ordinary(gives big bonuses for longer TDs) behind only P Manning, Brady, C Palmer, and McNabb in that order. I'm not sure if Kerry has ever ranked in the top 5 before, but for you to say that he is not doing any better than in the past is wrong imho.

Big game for Collins today.After today, he's on pace for ~ 4200 22 and 13 and falling.

Kerry Collins 2002 with Toomer/Hilliard 4000 19 and 14

 

[Maelstrom]

For the record, I don't think Johnson is a huge dropoff from Culpepper, I was really happy to see him brought in - he is an intelligent QB who knows his limitations and plays within them. But to say that is the only reason the Vikings are now winning is to avoid looking at the rest of the things that have happened right before/during/after he took over.

 

[joeg24]

All I know and all I care about is they have a playoff shot now, I don't care if my grandma suits up at QB. This team is very tough right now and has a cake walk schedule left. We need to focus less on C-Pepp vs BJ and more on this great stretch by the D and pro bowl play by Sharper. Go Vikings!

 

[jwvdcw]

5-0

 

[Maelstrom]

Defense won this game with the pick at the end, not BJohnson. The offense didn't move the ball well at all in the 2nd half, and the DF HAD to get that INT or the Lions might well have finished off that drive to win.

 

[phrozen]

5-0

people can spin it however they want but the Vikes are playing better football since Johnson has lined up at QB.

5-0 is pretty impressive

 

[Maelstrom]

5-0

people can spin it however they want but the Vikes are playing better Team football since Johnson has lined up at QB. And since Tice started sitting in on DF and simplifying the scheme, and since they shuffled the OLine to give the QB more time to throw, and since they finally have a semblance of a running game

5-0 is pretty impressive

Fixed (bold mine)No spin - just making sure the proper things are getting credit.

*added - I do think BJohnson is a good QB, I just don't think all the credit is with him just like all the blame was not with Culpepper

 

[Da Guru]

Brad Johnson 5-0 The guy gets it done!

 

[Preacher 1]

Brad Johnson 5-0

The guy gets it done!

Yup, once again he managed to somehow play all 22 positions by himself, not to mention play special teams and coach the team as well...it's truly awe-inspiring to watch.

 

[Cunning Linguist]

Also being in the same general geographic area as Detroit is a blessing in disguise.

 

[jwvdcw]

   

Defense won this game with the pick at the end, not BJohnson.  The offense didn't move the ball well at all in the 2nd half, and the DF HAD to get that INT or the Lions might well have finished off that drive to win.

   

Wow, that sure is amazing how their defense suddenly became so great as soon as Johnson took over And, I'm sure Brad Johnson's 256 yard, 2 TD, 0 INT performance had nothing to do with it at all.

 

[Preacher 1]

Defense won this game with the pick at the end, not BJohnson. The offense didn't move the ball well at all in the 2nd half, and the DF HAD to get that INT or the Lions might well have finished off that drive to win.

Wow, that sure is amazing how their defense suddenly became so great as soon as Johnson took over

Is this supposed to make some sort of sense?

 

[jwvdcw]

Brad Johnson 5-0 

The guy gets it done!

Yup, once again he managed to somehow play all 22 positions by himself, not to mention play special teams and coach the team as well...it's truly awe-inspiring to watch.

Sometimes all that is needed is one big shakeup to really change the entire team. A few examples:-Dilfer taking over for the 2000 Ravens(5-3 before him, 11-1 after)

-Brady taking over for 2001 Pats(0-2 before him, 14-3 with him)

-The Florida Marlins replacing their manager midseason and going with Jack McKeon(sp?). They were terrible when they made the switch- ended up winning the world series.

I could go on and on with more and more examples. Now in any of these cases, was the player/manager who took over really that much better than the guy he replaced? No. He definitely played/managed better but it was also the attitude of the team that changed with a new leader. And many times that is what a team needs- a shakeup, a change, something to get them out of their rut.

And I knew that the Vikings needed this(either at QB or head coach). Unfortunately, playing with Randy Moss had caused everyone to overrate Culpepper so much that there was little chance he'd get benched. So the only way they were going to get that shakeup at QB was through injury. Thus, his injury is a blessing in disguise.

So please stop telling me how Johnson isn't playing that great. Dilfer and Brady didn't put up huge numbers in those years either. But would you not agree that their being inserted into the lineup was the catylist(sp?) for both of those 2 seasons? Same deal here.

 

[jurb26]

Minn actually looks like a scary team all of a sudden and Johnson is the MAJOR reason IMO.

 

[Hinezer]

   

Defense won this game with the pick at the end, not BJohnson.  The offense didn't move the ball well at all in the 2nd half, and the DF HAD to get that INT or the Lions might well have finished off that drive to win.

   

Wow, that sure is amazing how their defense suddenly became so great as soon as Johnson took over

Is this supposed to make some sort of sense?

No kidding. Is Brad Johnson willing the defensive line to actually have a pass rush or force all the turnovers? I think Brad Johnson did very good today, but once against it was the defense that stepped to make big plays and win the game for the Vikings.

 

[jwvdcw]

   

Defense won this game with the pick at the end, not BJohnson.  The offense didn't move the ball well at all in the 2nd half, and the DF HAD to get that INT or the Lions might well have finished off that drive to win.

   

Wow, that sure is amazing how their defense suddenly became so great as soon as Johnson took over

Is this supposed to make some sort of sense?

No kidding. Is Brad Johnson willing the defensive line to actually have a pass rush or force all the turnovers? I think Brad Johnson did very good today, but once against it was the defense that stepped to make big plays and win the game for the Vikings.

See my post a few up. Brady didn't make the defense turn around in their 0-2 to super bowl turn around. And Dilfer didn't do that for Baltimore when they went to the super bowl. But sometimes a team just needs a shakeup, and yes changing leaders can have an affect on ALL facets of the game. Football is an emotional game. And I know it sounds crazy to think that replacing a QB can actually affect the defense or special teams, but I've seen it happen before.

Edited to add: Brad Johnson threw for 250+ yards and 2 TD(and 0 INTs). The defense held a bad offensive team to 16 points. If anything, they were both responsible for today's win. But even so, thats not my point. I'm not arguing that the D is playing better since Johnson was inserted. Rather I think that is a result of Johnson being inserted.

 

[Hinezer]

Brad Johnson 5-0  

The guy gets it done!

Yup, once again he managed to somehow play all 22 positions by himself, not to mention play special teams and coach the team as well...it's truly awe-inspiring to watch.

Sometimes all that is needed is one big shakeup to really change the entire team. A few examples:-Dilfer taking over for the 2000 Ravens(5-3 before him, 11-1 after)

-Brady taking over for 2001 Pats(0-2 before him, 14-3 with him)

-The Florida Marlins replacing their manager midseason and going with Jack McKeon(sp?). They were terrible when they made the switch- ended up winning the world series.

I could go on and on with more and more examples. Now in any of these cases, was the player/manager who took over really that much better than the guy he replaced? No. He definitely played/managed better but it was also the attitude of the team that changed with a new leader. And many times that is what a team needs- a shakeup, a change, something to get them out of their rut.

And I knew that the Vikings needed this(either at QB or head coach). Unfortunately, playing with Randy Moss had caused everyone to overrate Culpepper so much that there was little chance he'd get benched. So the only way they were going to get that shakeup at QB was through injury. Thus, his injury is a blessing in disguise.

So please stop telling me how Johnson isn't playing that great. Dilfer and Brady didn't put up huge numbers in those years either. But would you not agree that their being inserted into the lineup was the catylist(sp?) for both of those 2 seasons? Same deal here.

The Ravens won because of their great defense. They were 5-3 before Dilfer was the QB, it's not like they were a bad team with Tony Banks (?) as QB. And Tom Brady has proven to be a great QB. I don't see how either are compariable to Brad Johnson this year other than the other two teams also won because of their defense.Your endless agenda to bash Culpepper is getting old. But I'm a Viking fan and want to see them win no matter who the QB is. The fact that the Vikings are winning while Culpepper is injured is no reason to bash him.

 

[Maelstrom]

I keep saying that I don't believe Johnson is a huge dropoff over Culpepper. What I do NOT agree with is that Culpepper was to blame for the early season troubles. Should he have been benched? I believe he was injured enough he should have been held out of the games until he was healthy. That would have given him back his mobility, as well as take some of the pressure off of his shoulders. With no support on DF, no running game and no OLINE, Culpepper had the feeling he had to do everything himself, especially once they got behind. Thus the pressing and the bad games.The Vikings made offensive changes when they brought Johnson in. Why didn't they do those with Culpepper? Not because he couldn't handle it, but because they thought they could still play a very aggressive, risky style of offense with him. With BJohnson they have scaled back. This is the first week they have really attacked downfield since he got in. That was a coaching problem, not a player problem.Sure they needed to shake things up, make some changes, but not personel. I don't think the Vikings would be any worse with a healthy Culpepper than with BJohnson. Again, if CPep wasn't healthy, he should not have been playing.In the sense that the injury to CPep made the COACHES open their eyes and make the needed changes, I'll grant you, it was a blessing in disguise. But saying that the Vikings are winning because of BJohnson, and not due to all the other factors that are being listed in this thread, is to be blinded by bias against CPep. And again, I DO feel that BJohnson has been a part of the success, but not the SOLE reason for it.

 

[jurb26]

Some of you guys are absolutly kidding yourselves if you think that Johnson in place of Cpep is not a big factor here. Cpep turned the ball over 15 times in his 7 games, Johnson has turned it over 4 in his 5 games. So from over 2 per game to under 1 per game. Yes, the entire team is playing better (that also could be due to the spark that Johnson has created) as well, but Johnson is a major difference thus far. He is not the only one, but it's comical to see so many people down play the impact.

 

[The Gator]

Defense won this game with the pick at the end, not BJohnson. The offense didn't move the ball well at all in the 2nd half, and the DF HAD to get that INT or the Lions might well have finished off that drive to win.

Wow, that sure is amazing how their defense suddenly became so great as soon as Johnson took over

Is this supposed to make some sort of sense?

No kidding. Is Brad Johnson willing the defensive line to actually have a pass rush or force all the turnovers? I think Brad Johnson did very good today, but once against it was the defense that stepped to make big plays and win the game for the Vikings.

Um, yeah. Its amazing what a defense can do when your QB doesnt turn the ball over all the time and you can actually sit and rest on the sideline.

 

[jurb26]

Um, yeah. Its amazing what a defense can do when your QB doesnt turn the ball over all the time and you can actually sit and rest on the sideline.

Not something they want to hear apparently.

 

[Maelstrom]

I addressed that above in my last post. CPep was pressing since it was "all on him" and the Vikings were still calling a high-attack/risky offense which they haven't done with BJohnson. This week was a little closer to that, but up to now it's been pretty conservative. WRs were getting healthy and learning the offense as well. (KRob learning, Burleson not healthy)There was also some defensive injuries that got healthy right around the time CPep got hurt, which helped the DF, not too mention Tice simplifying the DF scheme and playcalling to ease the confusion. Also, it took them some games to gell as a squad, with all the new additions.It's not all about the QB, although some people will always put it there.

 

[The_Hunchback]

Brad Johnson 5-0  

The guy gets it done!

Yup, once again he managed to somehow play all 22 positions by himself, not to mention play special teams and coach the team as well...it's truly awe-inspiring to watch.

Yet when someone says this about Michael Vick it is accepted. I love the double standards that go on. Vick having a good record means he is awsome but Brad having a good record means the rest of the team is good.Edit - I am not picking on you just this line of thinking in general.

 

[Hinezer]

Um, yeah. Its amazing what a defense can do when your QB doesnt turn the ball over all the time and you can actually sit and rest on the sideline.

Not something they want to hear apparently.

Throwing out the Panthers game where both QBs played and the entire game was a mess, here are the average TOPs for each QB.Brad Johnson: 30.71

Daunte Culpepper: 29.68

That's one extra minute. Sure must have been a refreshing minute.

 

[norseman9375]

   

Defense won this game with the pick at the end, not BJohnson.  The offense didn't move the ball well at all in the 2nd half, and the DF HAD to get that INT or the Lions might well have finished off that drive to win.

   

Wow, that sure is amazing how their defense suddenly became so great as soon as Johnson took over

Is this supposed to make some sort of sense?

No kidding. Is Brad Johnson willing the defensive line to actually have a pass rush or force all the turnovers? I think Brad Johnson did very good today, but once against it was the defense that stepped to make big plays and win the game for the Vikings.

See my post a few up. Brady didn't make the defense turn around in their 0-2 to super bowl turn around. And Dilfer didn't do that for Baltimore when they went to the super bowl. But sometimes a team just needs a shakeup, and yes changing leaders can have an affect on ALL facets of the game. Football is an emotional game. And I know it sounds crazy to think that replacing a QB can actually affect the defense or special teams, but I've seen it happen before.

Edited to add: Brad Johnson threw for 250+ yards and 2 TD(and 0 INTs). The defense held a bad offensive team to 16 points. If anything, they were both responsible for today's win. But even so, thats not my point. I'm not arguing that the D is playing better since Johnson was inserted. Rather I think that is a result of Johnson being inserted.

I agree with most of this. I think some of the defensive leaders (mainly Sharper) realized they needed to step up their game when CPep was hurt and that has rubbed off on the other players. I also think the whole "love boat" thing has helped them take on a more professional attitude. If Cpep was healthy I would not want the Vikes to change back to him, however I do hope he is back starting next year. I have also taken note that Smoot has only played in one game since the winning streak.

 

[Preacher 1]

In the games that the Vikings lost with Culpepper at QB, here's the halftime score of each game, and who was leading at the half.Tampa: 17-7 Tampa...1 INT and 2 fumbles by C-Pep...Vikes lead 7-0 after 1 of each.Cincinnati: 27-0 Cincinnati...1 INT...Vikes already down 20-0 when it happens.Atlanta: 24-0 Atlanta...1 INT by Pep...Vikes already down 14-0 when that happens.Chicago: 7-3 Chicago...0 turnovers by Culpepper in the half.Carolina: 24-0 Carolina...0 turnovers when Culpepper was injured, already down 7-0.That's a total of 99-10 at the half...care to tell me what QB could win a game from such overwhelming deficits? He had 5 turnovers in the first half of those games, 2 were irrelavant (Vikes lead 7-0 afte both turnovers), 2 came with the team already down by a combined score of 34-0.Here's the kicker...only one Culpepper turnover in the first half each loss lead to any points...that's right, of the 99 points scored by the opposing teams, Culpepper was responsible for exactly 7 of those points. And that's when his club was already behind by 20 points...Now please tell me again how Brad is responsible for a 5-0 record and C-Pep is responsible for a 2-5 record?

 

[jurb26]

Um, yeah. Its amazing what a defense can do when your QB doesnt turn the ball over all the time and you can actually sit and rest on the sideline.

Not something they want to hear apparently.

Throwing out the Panthers game where both QBs played and the entire game was a mess, here are the average TOPs for each QB.Brad Johnson: 30.71

Daunte Culpepper: 29.68

That's one extra minute. Sure must have been a refreshing minute.

And what was the difference in average starting field position for the opposing team....

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I would rename this thread "The Vikings recent easy schedule of opponents, a blessing in disguise" but that's just me.

 

[Hinezer]

Um, yeah. Its amazing what a defense can do when your QB doesnt turn the ball over all the time and you can actually sit and rest on the sideline.

Not something they want to hear apparently.

Throwing out the Panthers game where both QBs played and the entire game was a mess, here are the average TOPs for each QB.Brad Johnson: 30.71

Daunte Culpepper: 29.68

That's one extra minute. Sure must have been a refreshing minute.

And what was the difference in average starting field position for the opposing team....

What does average starting field position have to do with the defense being on the sidelines? He was talking about how Culpepper's turnovers put the Vikings defense on the field more and I proved that there was barely a difference. I'll try to dig up the field position data.

 

[jwvdcw]

Um, yeah. Its amazing what a defense can do when your QB doesnt turn the ball over all the time and you can actually sit and rest on the sideline.

Not something they want to hear apparently.

Throwing out the Panthers game where both QBs played and the entire game was a mess, here are the average TOPs for each QB.Brad Johnson: 30.71

Daunte Culpepper: 29.68

That's one extra minute. Sure must have been a refreshing minute.

turnovers also give the other team good field position, which hurts your defense.

 

[jwvdcw]

   

Defense won this game with the pick at the end, not BJohnson.  The offense didn't move the ball well at all in the 2nd half, and the DF HAD to get that INT or the Lions might well have finished off that drive to win.

   

Wow, that sure is amazing how their defense suddenly became so great as soon as Johnson took over

Is this supposed to make some sort of sense?

No kidding. Is Brad Johnson willing the defensive line to actually have a pass rush or force all the turnovers? I think Brad Johnson did very good today, but once against it was the defense that stepped to make big plays and win the game for the Vikings.

See my post a few up. Brady didn't make the defense turn around in their 0-2 to super bowl turn around. And Dilfer didn't do that for Baltimore when they went to the super bowl. But sometimes a team just needs a shakeup, and yes changing leaders can have an affect on ALL facets of the game. Football is an emotional game. And I know it sounds crazy to think that replacing a QB can actually affect the defense or special teams, but I've seen it happen before.

Edited to add: Brad Johnson threw for 250+ yards and 2 TD(and 0 INTs). The defense held a bad offensive team to 16 points. If anything, they were both responsible for today's win. But even so, thats not my point. I'm not arguing that the D is playing better since Johnson was inserted. Rather I think that is a result of Johnson being inserted.

I agree with most of this. I think some of the defensive leaders (mainly Sharper) realized they needed to step up their game when CPep was hurt and that has rubbed off on the other players. I also think the whole "love boat" thing has helped them take on a more professional attitude. If Cpep was healthy I would not want the Vikes to change back to him, however I do hope he is back starting next year. I have also taken note that Smoot has only played in one game since the winning streek.

thank you.

 

[Donnybrook]

So just magically, as soon as BJ got into the starting lineup, all of these things came together?

This is the same type of argument I've had before when I say that Vick is a top 5 QB and that Brady is the best QB in the league- winning games is what matters to me regarding QBs. Thats the bottom line. And when certain QBs always seem to win, I tend to think that theres more to it than blind luck. I'm not surprised that I keep having to fight this fight, as on a fantasy football board there are bound to be people that overrate stats and big numbers when compared to winning.

Using your critera, Brad Johnson (5-0 as a starter) would be a much better QB than Kerry Collins (4-8 as a starter). What was your prediction again? Maybe you should stop trivializing the play of other 21+ starters on the team? If you follow this warped logic, Kyle Orton should be considered a superstar.

Why do you keep bumping this ridiculous thread?

 

[Da Guru]

Some of you guys are absolutly kidding yourselves if you think that Johnson in place of Cpep is not a big factor here. Cpep turned the ball over 15 times in his 7 games, Johnson has turned it over 4 in his 5 games. So from over 2 per game to under 1 per game. Yes, the entire team is playing better (that also could be due to the spark that Johnson has created) as well, but Johnson is a major difference thus far. He is not the only one, but it's comical to see so many people down play the impact.

I just saw a interview with Johnson. Brad said West Coast or East Coast or Gulf Coast offense I can win.because I know the reads and I take care of the football.The Vikings record since he has taken charge of the offense proves him right!

 

[Maelstrom]

In the games that the Vikings lost with Culpepper at QB, here's the halftime score of each game, and who was leading at the half.

Tampa: 17-7 Tampa...1 INT and 2 fumbles by C-Pep...Vikes lead 7-0 after 1 of each.

Cincinnati: 27-0 Cincinnati...1 INT...Vikes already down 20-0 when it happens.

Atlanta: 24-0 Atlanta...1 INT by Pep...Vikes already down 14-0 when that happens.

Chicago: 7-3 Chicago...0 turnovers by Culpepper in the half.

Carolina: 24-0 Carolina...0 turnovers when Culpepper was injured, already down 7-0.

That's a total of 99-10 at the half...care to tell me what QB could win a game from such overwhelming deficits? He had 5 turnovers in the first half of those games, 2 were irrelavant (Vikes lead 7-0 afte both turnovers), 2 came with the team already down by a combined score of 34-0.

Here's the kicker...only one Culpepper turnover in the first half each loss lead to any points...that's right, of the 99 points scored by the opposing teams, Culpepper was responsible for exactly 7 of those points. And that's when his club was already behind by 20 points...

Now please tell me again how Brad is responsible for a 5-0 record and C-Pep is responsible for a 2-5 record?

now, this deserves this : Excellent statistical analysis, that should show beyond any REASONABLE doubt, that the games were not lost by Culpepper but by the TEAM.

 

[Norseman]

I would rename this thread "The Vikings recent easy schedule of opponents, a blessing in disguise" but that's just me.

this also deserves a A look at the Vikings season

week# Team W-L outcome

1 Tampa 8-4 loss

2 Cincinn 9-3 loss

3 New Or 3-9 win

4 Atlanta 7-5 loss

6 Chicago 9-3 loss

7 Green B 2-10 win

8 Carolina 9-3 loss

9 Detroit 4-8 win

10 NY Giants 8-4 win

11 Green B 2-10 win

12 Cleveland 4-8 win

13 Detroit 4-8 win

Minnesota has only beaten one team that has more than 4 wins after 12 games, that being the Giants, in a game that the offense scored 3 points and defense and special teams scored 21. They have beaten the bad teams and won one that they shouldn't have against the good teams.

 

[jwvdcw]

So just magically, as soon as BJ got into the starting lineup, all of these things came together?

This is the same type of argument I've had before when I say that Vick is a top 5 QB and that Brady is the best QB in the league- winning games is what matters to me regarding QBs. Thats the bottom line. And when certain QBs always seem to win, I tend to think that theres more to it than blind luck. I'm not surprised that I keep having to fight this fight, as on a fantasy football board there are bound to be people that overrate stats and big numbers when compared to winning.

Using your critera, Brad Johnson (5-0 as a starter) would be a much better QB than Kerry Collins (4-8 as a starter). What was your prediction again? Maybe you should stop trivializing the play of other 21+ starters on the team? If you follow this warped logic, Kyle Orton should be considered a superstar.

Why do you keep bumping this ridiculous thread?

I don't think Kerry Collins is that good of a QB at all. Not sure what your point is there. I think that if Moss was healthy, he'd make any QB, including Collins, a top 3 FF QB, but I don't think Collins is anything special, nor have I ever said so.If you note, I mention QBs whose teams are bad without them and good with them. Theres no proof that the Bears wouldn't be good without Orton. That sinks your argument there.

I keep bumping this each week because it shows how right I was as they continue to win.

I am not trivializing the other 21 players. I am merely stating that one player, particularly a QB, can definitely have an impact and that Brad Johnson's impact has been positive.

Would you agree or disagree that Brad Johnson's impact has been positive? If you agree, then you'd have to agree that it was indeed a blessing in disguise because they'd probably miss out on that positive impact if it didn't happen.

 

[jwvdcw]

In the games that the Vikings lost with Culpepper at QB, here's the halftime score of each game, and who was leading at the half.

Tampa: 17-7 Tampa...1 INT and 2 fumbles by C-Pep...Vikes lead 7-0 after 1 of each.

Cincinnati: 27-0 Cincinnati...1 INT...Vikes already down 20-0 when it happens.

Atlanta: 24-0 Atlanta...1 INT by Pep...Vikes already down 14-0 when that happens.

Chicago: 7-3 Chicago...0 turnovers by Culpepper in the half.

Carolina: 24-0 Carolina...0 turnovers when Culpepper was injured, already down 7-0.

That's a total of 99-10 at the half...care to tell me what QB could win a game from such overwhelming deficits?  He had 5 turnovers in the first half of those games, 2 were irrelavant (Vikes lead 7-0 afte both turnovers), 2 came with the team already down by a combined score of 34-0.

Here's the kicker...only one Culpepper turnover in the first half each loss lead to any points...that's right, of the 99 points scored by the opposing teams, Culpepper was responsible for exactly 7 of those points.  And that's when his club was already behind by 20 points...

Now please tell me again how Brad is responsible for a 5-0 record and C-Pep is responsible for a 2-5 record?

now, this deserves this : Excellent statistical analysis, that should show beyond any REASONABLE doubt, that the games were not lost by Culpepper but by the TEAM.

For the last time: I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I don't know how many times I have to say that I agree that the team is playing better under B Johnson. I agree that they were playing worse under Culpepper.

Why do you keep bringing this up when I have only agreed with this.

All I have said was that this team needed a "shot in the arm." They needed either a QB change or a coaching change imho because they were a talented team that wasn't playing well. And their QB wasn't playing very well either. And they had a capable backup QB.....and when I put all of those factors together, I came up with the notion that they should bench their QB. But I knew that would never happen because Culpepper has become so overrated due to playing with Moss. So when Culpepper got hurt I called it a blessing in disguise.

So, please stop trying to "convince" me that the team is playing better around B Johnson and that is a big reason for their winning....because I agree with you there.