Curious - Why does it seem most "assume" DWill won't res (1 Viewer)

[Fighting Noles]

MOST (not all) of the posts I've seen regarding Stewarts Dynasty value inevitably mention the fact that DWill's contract expires this year & then JStew will be the SOLE RB once DWill moves on. They then point out how well Stewy did the end of 2009 when DWill was injured and extrapilate his "starter" RB #'s from there for 2011 on.

Why does this seem to be accepted as fact generally (again not by all)?

Carolina is clearly a team built on running the football. Their QB(s) are average, so I don't see that changing anytime soon & SS is their only viable receiving option. With the OLine healthy in 2010 again (& a good run blocking unit) & even slightly better QB play (likely with the way Jake played last year), I could see them getting back to 2008 rushing #'s, especially where the TD #'s are concerned. This was all well discussed in the CAROLINA COMBO thread this week. In other words - if it aint broke, don't fix it. Passing teams keep 2 GOOD WR's on the payroll all the time, why wouldn't the PANTHERS keep TWO VERY GOOD RB's? Especially with RBBC becoming so prevalent in the NFL nowadays.

This isn't a debate on which one is more talented (unless you feel Stewy is SO much better that Carolina will let DWill go because of that) - We've seen plenty of those threads. I just know most feel Stewart is talented (as do I), but his draft status seems to definitely be somewhat predicated on him being the 80% guy sooner rather than later. I don't feel most would take him in the late 1st/Early 2nd unless they felt he wouldn't be sharing with DWill for another 3 or so years.

Just would like the SP's thoughts on this....Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[Cassius]

Because there's an absurd level of Stewart love around here, so Williams has to not re-sign.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

This topic was discussed earlier this offseason when the news came out that Carolina might re-sign DeAngelo before this season. Totally agree with OP, it's in Carolina's interest to have both, even if one comes at true market value.

 

[MAC_32]

Carolina wants both backs and both backs want to stay in Carolina it's just a matter of agreeing to financial terms.

I won't speak for other people that have J Stew absurdly too high in dynasty (I have him #5 and took him with pick #17 in a start up) but he's a solid RB2 at worst as long as he's splitting with DeAng and I think he's an elite back without him. DeAng has 4 years on him and I'm of the opinion that backs like DeAng are more susceptible to early career decline, so at some point I expect J Stew to shoulder the load.

 

[az_prof]

I don't think too many teams will shell out the kind of money I expect Deangelo will command if they have another back who has proven he can do just as well. I could be wrong. But I just don't think that is likely. If anything, they will draft someone in next year's draft in the second or third round to backup Stewart and start the whole cycle over.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I don't think too many teams will shell out the kind of money I expect Deangelo will command if they have another back who has proven he can do just as well. I could be wrong. But I just don't think that is likely. If anything, they will draft someone in next year's draft in the second or third round to backup Stewart and start the whole cycle over.

That's the biggest problem with the 80% theory. If the Panthers let DeAngelo walk, they'll bring a new back in. Honestly another first-rounder would fit their M.O.

 

[Invictus~Bronte]

These have been the most reasonable and right on responses regarding this topic. Everyone just assumes Dwill will be gone, and Stew automatically becomes a 25 carry guy.

I actually was hoping the blind love would continue a bit longer.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Let's talk contract for DWill. What do you think the team will pay him? I am guessing something along the lines of $40 million over 5-6 years, and some of it will be backloaded and they will restructure or release him by the 4th or 5th year of that contract like other teams do. Maybe a $10-$15 million signing bonus. It can be done. Both Carolina RBs see the need for the other and this team has a goal like most others to get to the Super Bowl. It's not a high flying offense so the need for 2 RBs as long as Fox is there is essential.

Stewart got pretty big money when he came out, not sure of the terms but he was a top12 pick or top15 pick, he got some bonus money. If it was a 5 year deal, then he isn't due any new money for another 3 years. That's enough time to get thru the frontload part of DWill's new deal, then they can take care of Stewart in year 5 like they are doing with DWill...they aren't gonna tear up Stewart's rookie contract anytime soon, I can assure you.

I'm not trying to come across like a know it all in this thread but there is room for both RBs to split up 450-500+ carries between the 2 of them and remain healthy. Fox grew up watching teams like Miami in the early 70s get it done with 2-3 RBs, other teams have won with amazing ground games. Fox is never going to be running a spread offense so owners for both guys should relax and enjoy the ride.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

The issues I see are as follows:

1. Fox might be gone. That would put everything up in the air.

2. The money Williams wants may not be what Carolina is willing to pay. Obviously, the contract structure and years matter.

3. Carolina has a ton of holes in my opinion and they could better use the money elsewhere...namely defense...and draft a RB next year.

I think Williams wants to stay and Carolina probably wants to keep him, but the above 3 factors means its easier said than done...especially because they have Stewart. I might think different if they did not have another elite RB. I know they like having 2 of them, but with holes to fill, it could be a matter of necessity vs. luxury. I think Williams will have to compromise a lot in terms of salary if he wants to stay.

I think it is a 65-70% chance that Williams is elsewhere next year....but I will not be surprised either way.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

The issues I see are as follows:1. Fox might be gone. That would put everything up in the air. 2. The money Williams wants may not be what Carolina is willing to pay. Obviously, the contract structure and years matter. 3. Carolina has a ton of holes in my opinion and they could better use the money elsewhere...namely defense...and draft a RB next year. I think Williams wants to stay and Carolina probably wants to keep him, but the above 3 factors means its easier said than done...especially because they have Stewart. I might think different if they did not have another elite RB. I know they like having 2 of them, but with holes to fill, it could be a matter of necessity vs. luxury. I think Williams will have to compromise a lot in terms of salary if he wants to stay. I think it is a 65-70% chance that Williams is elsewhere next year....but I will not be surprised either way.

Great take AB.

 

[massraider]

I just doubt they will replicate their success from last year.

With the distribution the way it is, I think last year's numbers are their ceiling, it'll be tough for either to get 10 TDs, and backs going behind them will have more touches.

 

[Bayhawks]

Carolina wants both backs and both backs want to stay in Carolina it's just a matter of agreeing to financial terms.

I won't speak for other people that have J Stew absurdly too high in dynasty (I have him #5 and took him with pick #17 in a start up) but he's a solid RB2 at worst as long as he's splitting with DeAng and I think he's an elite back without him. DeAng has 4 years on him and I'm of the opinion that backs like DeAng are more susceptible to early career decline, so at some point I expect J Stew to shoulder the load.

What do you mean "backs like DeAng," and why do you think they are more susceptible too an early decline?

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

Stewart is signed through 2012 at about 1.3M per year. He is cheap.

Because Stewart is cheap, and depending on what happens with the collective bargaining agreement, I could certainly see Carolina Franchising Deangelo in 2011 if they cannot reach a long term agreement with him.

As far as Stewart being at worst a fantasy RB2, that simply is not true. For that to be the case, Carolina must split the carries more than they were when Deangelo was healthy last season. Stewart was totally hit and miss at that time... I would not care to have Stewart as my RB2, since his upside is very limited unless there is an injury, and if his production mirrors his production through week 11 last year, he won't be reliable. In the 1st 10 games he had 3 good games, one decent game, and 6 bad or very bad fantasy games. That is not good. Deangelo over the same period had 2 games under 10 points and was RB5 overall.

Because they are both so talented and performed so well last year, I would lean towards believing a full-blown RBBC happening, making both of them RB2s... but we do not know how they will be used. If it is a 65/35 split, the 65 guy is a RB1 and the 35 guy is an inconsistent RB2/3.

 

[simey]

This is an article on DeAngelo from May 26th. link



Panthers RB DeAngelo Williams not fussing over contract



Panthers running back is entering the final season of his original 5-year deal, and will wait for the team's offer.

By Charles Chandler - cchandler@charlotteobserver.com

DeAngelo Williams says he's not "upset or aggravated or anything like that" about the Carolina Panthers allowing him to enter the final year of his contract without a lucrative extension despite two stellar seasons.

"I'm in no shape, form or fashion upset with anybody because I haven't gotten a new deal," Williams said after a morning practice Tuesday, the second day of the Panthers' organized team activities. "I just know at the end of this fifth year, somebody's got to make some decisions."

Williams, a 2006 first-round draft pick, has rushed for 2,632 yards and scored 27 touchdowns the past two seasons, emerging as one of the NFL's elite running backs.

He is one of several young stars the Panthers have said they want to keep long-term - including linebackers Jon Beason and Thomas Davis, and center Ryan Kalil - but to whom they haven't given contract extensions.General manager Marty Hurney said last month that new rules related to the collective bargaining agreement stalemate make it difficult to sign players with years remaining on their contracts to extensions, because the deals would have to include enormous signing bonuses.

Carolina also is working under a tighter budget than usual as owner Jerry Richardson gears up for a potential lockout of players by NFL owners. Richardson also is seeking to set a frugal example for other owners because of his role as co-chair of the committee overseeing labor negotiations with the players' association.

Nevertheless, Williams said his contract status has made him wonder whether the Panthers want to keep him.

"I'd love to be here," he said. "But somebody has to show me that they want me to be here. It's not my choice, unfortunately.

"My whole thing is I signed a five-year commitment here. If the owner doesn't want to re-sign me or if he doesn't want to re-do my deal, that's all him.

"I'm not going to get upset or anything like that because I know when I sat down and signed my five-year deal, I was committed here for five years. So why put up a fuss? Either he's going to re-sign you or he's not going to re-sign you."

Williams said he'll continue putting forth his best effort.

"When you look at it, the pressure's not on me," he said. "I'm going to get out there and try to be productive, just like Jonathan (Stewart) and just like any other player on the field because I'm a competitor and I love the game of football. I'll let all that take care of itself."

Williams returned to practice this week after sitting out a three-day minicamp earlier in the offseason while recovering from February ankle surgery.

He said the surgery was to perform "maintenance work" on his ankle but wasn't related to the high ankle sprain that sidelined him late last season.

 

[Hawk Fan200]

Stewart had good stats last year for a R2 talent

 

[tex]

I know Carolina thinks Davis is one of the players they would like to keep, but with him being injured last year and now already out for the season this year, do we think this could factor into keeping Davis? Or could they just think we'll let Davis go and throw that money at Dwill due to the questions about the CBA? If Dwill wants to stay in Carolina I'm sure he would take a little less $ than he could get elsewhere to stay there. Just throwing this out there as food for thought.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Stewart had good stats last year for a R2 talent

Bolstered by games where he got a bigger workload with DWill injured.

 

[SSOG]

I think Williams wants to stay and Carolina probably wants to keep him, but the above 3 factors means its easier said than done...especially because they have Stewart. I might think different if they did not have another elite RB. I know they like having 2 of them, but with holes to fill, it could be a matter of necessity vs. luxury. I think Williams will have to compromise a lot in terms of salary if he wants to stay. I think it is a 65-70% chance that Williams is elsewhere next year....but I will not be surprised either way.

It reminds me a lot of the Cards with Fitz and Boldin. The Cardinals were the most pass-heavy team in the league with both Fitz and Boldin. Both Fitz and Boldin were absolute studs. Arizona's offense was much better with both of them around. At the end of the day, though... that's a lot of coin to invest in a player when you already have another equally good player on your roster. That money could be better spent elsewhere. As a result, Boldin walked.I wouldn't be surprised to see Carolina keeps both, just like I wouldn't have been surprised to see Arizona keep Boldin... but there's a difference between "I wouldn't be surprised by it" and "I'm expecting it to happen".

 

[Vision6]

I'm not as high on Stewart for a few reasons but the highest of them being is I think he is an inferior back to Williams. DeAngelo Williams is one hell of a player and looks like a cut above Stewart according to the old eyeball test. He doesn't have a whole lot of miles on him either so I see no reason why Carolina won't bring him back.

 

[Bron-Yr-Aur]

I think Williams wants to stay and Carolina probably wants to keep him, but the above 3 factors means its easier said than done...especially because they have Stewart. I might think different if they did not have another elite RB. I know they like having 2 of them, but with holes to fill, it could be a matter of necessity vs. luxury. I think Williams will have to compromise a lot in terms of salary if he wants to stay. I think it is a 65-70% chance that Williams is elsewhere next year....but I will not be surprised either way.

It reminds me a lot of the Cards with Fitz and Boldin. The Cardinals were the most pass-heavy team in the league with both Fitz and Boldin. Both Fitz and Boldin were absolute studs. Arizona's offense was much better with both of them around. At the end of the day, though... that's a lot of coin to invest in a player when you already have another equally good player on your roster. That money could be better spent elsewhere. As a result, Boldin walked.I wouldn't be surprised to see Carolina keeps both, just like I wouldn't have been surprised to see Arizona keep Boldin... but there's a difference between "I wouldn't be surprised by it" and "I'm expecting it to happen".

I agree, but would add that situations like this in part hinge on the emergence of a lesser player on the depth chart. I.E. in Arizona Breaston stepped up his play and proved that, while not being the same caliber of talent, he could still be a solid replacement for Boldin. So I could see it being even easier for the Panthers to let Dwill walk next year if a Sutton or Goodson can prove that they can produce with some efficiency as the rb2, which is clearly a very important peice of the Panthers offense. Either that or a solid talent rookie rb falls to them next year.

 

[domvin]

DEANGELO WILLIAMS STATS Receiving Rushing

Statistics No Yds Avg TD Att Yds Avg TD

2005 12 78 6.5 1 310 1,964 6.3 18

2004 18 210 11.7 1 313 1,948 6.2 22

2003 35 384 11.0 3 243 1,430 5.9 10

2002 5 51 10.2 0 103 684 6.6 5

Career 70 723 10.3 5 969 6,026 6.2 55

Deangelos Mileage came in college. I bolded his receiving and rushing attempts. Over 1000 touches

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position. They have to address the d line and o line. They lack starters and much needed depth along both sides of the line

 

[Bayhawks]

DEANGELO WILLIAMS STATS Receiving Rushing

Statistics No Yds Avg TD Att Yds Avg TD

2005 12 78 6.5 1 310 1,964 6.3 18

2004 18 210 11.7 1 313 1,948 6.2 22

2003 35 384 11.0 3 243 1,430 5.9 10

2002 5 51 10.2 0 103 684 6.6 5

Career 70 723 10.3 5 969 6,026 6.2 55

Deangelos Mileage came in college. I bolded his receiving and rushing attempts. Over 1000 touches

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position. They have to address the d line and o line. They lack starters and much needed depth along both sides of the line

You're right that Williams had a lot of touches from his college days, and that Carolina would have to look at that when they decided whether or not to tie up a large contract (or 2) in the RB position.However, if you are going to go back to college stats, you also need to consider injury history, dating back to college.

Jonathan Stewart was injured in all 3 of his college seasons. He missed several games his freshmen year due to an ankle injury, he was extremely limited in several games (less than 5 carries) his sophomore year due to another (or the same) ankle injury, and he injured his big toe during his junior year and had to have surgery in the off-season to correct the problem. In addition, he has been plague by nagging injuries throughout his pro career. In fact, he has NEVER been able to fully participate in off-season activities because of his injuries.

His max number of touches is 302 (his junior season in college).

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position.

I agree with this, but the question they need to ask is: "If we stick with 1 guy, do we stick with the guy who has more touches, or more injury history?"

 

[domvin]

DEANGELO WILLIAMS STATS Receiving Rushing

Statistics No Yds Avg TD Att Yds Avg TD

2005 12 78 6.5 1 310 1,964 6.3 18

2004 18 210 11.7 1 313 1,948 6.2 22

2003 35 384 11.0 3 243 1,430 5.9 10

2002 5 51 10.2 0 103 684 6.6 5

Career 70 723 10.3 5 969 6,026 6.2 55

Deangelos Mileage came in college. I bolded his receiving and rushing attempts. Over 1000 touches

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position. They have to address the d line and o line. They lack starters and much needed depth along both sides of the line

You're right that Williams had a lot of touches from his college days, and that Carolina would have to look at that when they decided whether or not to tie up a large contract (or 2) in the RB position.However, if you are going to go back to college stats, you also need to consider injury history, dating back to college.

Jonathan Stewart was injured in all 3 of his college seasons. He missed several games his freshmen year due to an ankle injury, he was extremely limited in several games (less than 5 carries) his sophomore year due to another (or the same) ankle injury, and he injured his big toe during his junior year and had to have surgery in the off-season to correct the problem. In addition, he has been plague by nagging injuries throughout his pro career. In fact, he has NEVER been able to fully participate in off-season activities because of his injuries.

His max number of touches is 302 (his junior season in college).

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position.

I agree with this, but the question they need to ask is: "If we stick with 1 guy, do we stick with the guy who has more touches, or more injury history?"

Good points

The Hurney/Fox regime is in a "lame duck scenario" as well. Not sure what power either one really has, going into a very tenuous situation in their regime.

Richardson has "supposedly" ordered some of the purse strings tightened up with the pending lockout, byut hell, all teams have tightened the coffers.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

DEANGELO WILLIAMS STATS Receiving Rushing

Statistics No Yds Avg TD Att Yds Avg TD

2005 12 78 6.5 1 310 1,964 6.3 18

2004 18 210 11.7 1 313 1,948 6.2 22

2003 35 384 11.0 3 243 1,430 5.9 10

2002 5 51 10.2 0 103 684 6.6 5

Career 70 723 10.3 5 969 6,026 6.2 55

Deangelos Mileage came in college. I bolded his receiving and rushing attempts. Over 1000 touches

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position. They have to address the d line and o line. They lack starters and much needed depth along both sides of the line

You're right that Williams had a lot of touches from his college days, and that Carolina would have to look at that when they decided whether or not to tie up a large contract (or 2) in the RB position.However, if you are going to go back to college stats, you also need to consider injury history, dating back to college.

Jonathan Stewart was injured in all 3 of his college seasons. He missed several games his freshmen year due to an ankle injury, he was extremely limited in several games (less than 5 carries) his sophomore year due to another (or the same) ankle injury, and he injured his big toe during his junior year and had to have surgery in the off-season to correct the problem. In addition, he has been plague by nagging injuries throughout his pro career. In fact, he has NEVER been able to fully participate in off-season activities because of his injuries.

His max number of touches is 302 (his junior season in college).

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position.

I agree with this, but the question they need to ask is: "If we stick with 1 guy, do we stick with the guy who has more touches, or more injury history?"

Stewart has never missed a game in the NFL and had corrective surgery, removing a bone spur that was aggravating his Achilles...relatively minor surgery. If he plays another 16 games, his injury history will become a non issue. Stewart isn't going anywhere anyways. The bottom line is this decision will likely come down to the Panthers and Williams agreeing on a contract. I'm not sure they can.

 

[Lambert]

I think Williams wants to stay and Carolina probably wants to keep him, but the above 3 factors means its easier said than done...especially because they have Stewart. I might think different if they did not have another elite RB. I know they like having 2 of them, but with holes to fill, it could be a matter of necessity vs. luxury. I think Williams will have to compromise a lot in terms of salary if he wants to stay. I think it is a 65-70% chance that Williams is elsewhere next year....but I will not be surprised either way.

It reminds me a lot of the Cards with Fitz and Boldin. The Cardinals were the most pass-heavy team in the league with both Fitz and Boldin. Both Fitz and Boldin were absolute studs. Arizona's offense was much better with both of them around. At the end of the day, though... that's a lot of coin to invest in a player when you already have another equally good player on your roster. That money could be better spent elsewhere. As a result, Boldin walked.I wouldn't be surprised to see Carolina keeps both, just like I wouldn't have been surprised to see Arizona keep Boldin... but there's a difference between "I wouldn't be surprised by it" and "I'm expecting it to happen".

That raises an interesting question -- let's assume just for the sake of argument that we know for a fact that Carolina WON'T keep him (and assume it's because they don't want to spend the money, not because DWill is hurt or his performance drops at all in his final contract year). Given that we don't know where he will end up outside of Carolina, how do folks see this scenario affecting his dynasty value? He could easily end up on a team with a much poorer rushing offense and still end up sharing a lot of carries. On the flip side, although it seems somewhat less likely, he could end up as the bell cow back on a team with an equal or better rushing offense. My thought is that his value drops somewhat, but not that significantly.

 

[massraider]

I think Williams wants to stay and Carolina probably wants to keep him, but the above 3 factors means its easier said than done...especially because they have Stewart. I might think different if they did not have another elite RB. I know they like having 2 of them, but with holes to fill, it could be a matter of necessity vs. luxury. I think Williams will have to compromise a lot in terms of salary if he wants to stay. I think it is a 65-70% chance that Williams is elsewhere next year....but I will not be surprised either way.

It reminds me a lot of the Cards with Fitz and Boldin. The Cardinals were the most pass-heavy team in the league with both Fitz and Boldin. Both Fitz and Boldin were absolute studs. Arizona's offense was much better with both of them around. At the end of the day, though... that's a lot of coin to invest in a player when you already have another equally good player on your roster. That money could be better spent elsewhere. As a result, Boldin walked.I wouldn't be surprised to see Carolina keeps both, just like I wouldn't have been surprised to see Arizona keep Boldin... but there's a difference between "I wouldn't be surprised by it" and "I'm expecting it to happen".

That raises an interesting question -- let's assume just for the sake of argument that we know for a fact that Carolina WON'T keep him (and assume it's because they don't want to spend the money, not because DWill is hurt or his performance drops at all in his final contract year). Given that we don't know where he will end up outside of Carolina, how do folks see this scenario affecting his dynasty value? He could easily end up on a team with a much poorer rushing offense and still end up sharing a lot of carries. On the flip side, although it seems somewhat less likely, he could end up as the bell cow back on a team with an equal or better rushing offense. My thought is that his value drops somewhat, but not that significantly.

Well, I think it's more likely that, if he leaves, he'd be going somewhere where they intend to give him the ball 300 times. Heck, what if he winds up in Green Bay?

 

[MAC_32]

Carolina wants both backs and both backs want to stay in Carolina it's just a matter of agreeing to financial terms.

I won't speak for other people that have J Stew absurdly too high in dynasty (I have him #5 and took him with pick #17 in a start up) but he's a solid RB2 at worst as long as he's splitting with DeAng and I think he's an elite back without him. DeAng has 4 years on him and I'm of the opinion that backs like DeAng are more susceptible to early career decline, so at some point I expect J Stew to shoulder the load.

What do you mean "backs like DeAng," and why do you think they are more susceptible too an early decline?

Guys who are most dependent on speed, I don't believe in the RB's are done at 30 rule anymore...but I do believe in an amended version...RB's that rely on speed probably are. It's something I've really just started to notice the last few seasons so I'm not sure how much (if any) weight it carries, but if it does mean anything I'll be ahead of the curve.

 

[SSOG]

I agree with this, but the question they need to ask is: "If we stick with 1 guy, do we stick with the guy who has more touches, or more injury history?"

I think a more relevant question, given the fact that we're talking about a multi-year contract, is "If we're going to sign 1 guy to a 5 year contract, do we sign the guy who will be 24 at the start of the 2011 season, or the guy who will be 28 at the start of the 2011 season?"

That raises an interesting question -- let's assume just for the sake of argument that we know for a fact that Carolina WON'T keep him (and assume it's because they don't want to spend the money, not because DWill is hurt or his performance drops at all in his final contract year). Given that we don't know where he will end up outside of Carolina, how do folks see this scenario affecting his dynasty value? He could easily end up on a team with a much poorer rushing offense and still end up sharing a lot of carries. On the flip side, although it seems somewhat less likely, he could end up as the bell cow back on a team with an equal or better rushing offense. My thought is that his value drops somewhat, but not that significantly.

I think his value will be substantially lower no matter what happens with his contract, just because he'll be 28 and age will be looming over him like a specter. As for what it does to his production... I'd expect it to hold pretty steady with a new team. I'd imagine he'd average fewer points per touch, but I'd also expect him to get more touches to compensate.

Guys who are most dependent on speed, I don't believe in the RB's are done at 30 rule anymore...but I do believe in an amended version...RB's that rely on speed probably are. It's something I've really just started to notice the last few seasons so I'm not sure how much (if any) weight it carries, but if it does mean anything I'll be ahead of the curve.

I don't know how speed affects aging in the NFL, but the baseball guys have discovered that fast guys age noticeably better than slower guys.

 

[Bayhawks]

DEANGELO WILLIAMS STATS Receiving Rushing

Statistics No Yds Avg TD Att Yds Avg TD

2005 12 78 6.5 1 310 1,964 6.3 18

2004 18 210 11.7 1 313 1,948 6.2 22

2003 35 384 11.0 3 243 1,430 5.9 10

2002 5 51 10.2 0 103 684 6.6 5

Career 70 723 10.3 5 969 6,026 6.2 55

Deangelos Mileage came in college. I bolded his receiving and rushing attempts. Over 1000 touches

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position. They have to address the d line and o line. They lack starters and much needed depth along both sides of the line

You're right that Williams had a lot of touches from his college days, and that Carolina would have to look at that when they decided whether or not to tie up a large contract (or 2) in the RB position.However, if you are going to go back to college stats, you also need to consider injury history, dating back to college.

Jonathan Stewart was injured in all 3 of his college seasons. He missed several games his freshmen year due to an ankle injury, he was extremely limited in several games (less than 5 carries) his sophomore year due to another (or the same) ankle injury, and he injured his big toe during his junior year and had to have surgery in the off-season to correct the problem. In addition, he has been plague by nagging injuries throughout his pro career. In fact, he has NEVER been able to fully participate in off-season activities because of his injuries.

His max number of touches is 302 (his junior season in college).

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position.

I agree with this, but the question they need to ask is: "If we stick with 1 guy, do we stick with the guy who has more touches, or more injury history?"

Stewart has never missed a game in the NFL and had corrective surgery, removing a bone spur that was aggravating his Achilles...relatively minor surgery. If he plays another 16 games, his injury history will become a non issue. Stewart isn't going anywhere anyways. The bottom line is this decision will likely come down to the Panthers and Williams agreeing on a contract. I'm not sure they can.

The bolded is true, but that could also be part and parcel of his role in a RBBC. By limiting his touches, perhaps that has allowed him to play with these minor injuries. And although he has never missed a game, he has been on the injury list countless times, and rarely practiced on Tuesday or Wednesdays this past season. He's not the picture of perfect (RB) health.And my post was in direct response to another poster's inclusion of Williams' college touches as part of his "wear and tear." If you're going to include college stats in this discussion, then it's only relevant to look at Stewart's college injury history as well.

I don't agree with your bottom line, at least not exclusively. The Panthers are (IMO) going to factor in their confidence in Stewart being their lead RB as part of the decision of whether to offer Williams' a contract or not. And if they don't feel comfortable with him being able to stay healthy enough (based on his history of nagging injuries), they may be more inclined to offer Williams a contract.

 

[Bayhawks]

Carolina wants both backs and both backs want to stay in Carolina it's just a matter of agreeing to financial terms.

I won't speak for other people that have J Stew absurdly too high in dynasty (I have him #5 and took him with pick #17 in a start up) but he's a solid RB2 at worst as long as he's splitting with DeAng and I think he's an elite back without him. DeAng has 4 years on him and I'm of the opinion that backs like DeAng are more susceptible to early career decline, so at some point I expect J Stew to shoulder the load.

What do you mean "backs like DeAng," and why do you think they are more susceptible too an early decline?

Guys who are most dependent on speed, I don't believe in the RB's are done at 30 rule anymore...but I do believe in an amended version...RB's that rely on speed probably are. It's something I've really just started to notice the last few seasons so I'm not sure how much (if any) weight it carries, but if it does mean anything I'll be ahead of the curve.

Okay, but what makes you think Williams is dependent of speed? He ran a 4.55 coming out of college. That's good, but it's not great. In fact, his draft profile from 2006 says he "lacks the flat-out speed to beat defenders around corner."Williams is a good cut-back runner, has good to great vision, has great balance, and is a good inside runner. He's not a back that is dependant on speed.

So, if he's not the back that you thought he was (that was susceptible too an early decline), does that make you reconsider your opinion on Stewart soon being asked to "shoulder the load?"

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Carolina wants both backs and both backs want to stay in Carolina it's just a matter of agreeing to financial terms.

I won't speak for other people that have J Stew absurdly too high in dynasty (I have him #5 and took him with pick #17 in a start up) but he's a solid RB2 at worst as long as he's splitting with DeAng and I think he's an elite back without him. DeAng has 4 years on him and I'm of the opinion that backs like DeAng are more susceptible to early career decline, so at some point I expect J Stew to shoulder the load.

What do you mean "backs like DeAng," and why do you think they are more susceptible too an early decline?

Guys who are most dependent on speed, I don't believe in the RB's are done at 30 rule anymore...but I do believe in an amended version...RB's that rely on speed probably are. It's something I've really just started to notice the last few seasons so I'm not sure how much (if any) weight it carries, but if it does mean anything I'll be ahead of the curve.

Okay, but what makes you think Williams is dependent of speed? He ran a 4.55 coming out of college. That's good, but it's not great. In fact, his draft profile from 2006 says he "lacks the flat-out speed to beat defenders around corner."Williams is a good cut-back runner, has good to great vision, has great balance, and is a good inside runner. He's not a back that is dependant on speed.

So, if he's not the back that you thought he was (that was susceptible too an early decline), does that make you reconsider your opinion on Stewart soon being asked to "shoulder the load?"

I think that the stupid "Smash and Dash" nicknames forced on Stewart and Williams a few seasons back made people think that Williams was some tiny speed back (since he was Dash). Williams is 217-220 pounds and is a capable inside runner that can move the pile when necessary. Yes, he can break some long runs but straight line speed is far from his greates asset.

 

[MAC_32]

Carolina wants both backs and both backs want to stay in Carolina it's just a matter of agreeing to financial terms.

I won't speak for other people that have J Stew absurdly too high in dynasty (I have him #5 and took him with pick #17 in a start up) but he's a solid RB2 at worst as long as he's splitting with DeAng and I think he's an elite back without him. DeAng has 4 years on him and I'm of the opinion that backs like DeAng are more susceptible to early career decline, so at some point I expect J Stew to shoulder the load.

What do you mean "backs like DeAng," and why do you think they are more susceptible too an early decline?

Guys who are most dependent on speed, I don't believe in the RB's are done at 30 rule anymore...but I do believe in an amended version...RB's that rely on speed probably are. It's something I've really just started to notice the last few seasons so I'm not sure how much (if any) weight it carries, but if it does mean anything I'll be ahead of the curve.

Okay, but what makes you think Williams is dependent of speed? He ran a 4.55 coming out of college. That's good, but it's not great. In fact, his draft profile from 2006 says he "lacks the flat-out speed to beat defenders around corner."Williams is a good cut-back runner, has good to great vision, has great balance, and is a good inside runner. He's not a back that is dependant on speed.

So, if he's not the back that you thought he was (that was susceptible too an early decline), does that make you reconsider your opinion on Stewart soon being asked to "shoulder the load?"

When I say 'speed' I don't mean straight line speed - I mean cut back ability, agility, quickness, etc. I don't think any back that just has speed is EVER a good investment, sorry for any confusion. I don't think he's that great of an inside runner and that will become more noticeable if he loses anything in those other departments. The backs that seem to age well are the ones that have that strong inside running ability that can consistently pound out 3, 4, 5 yards a touch and can break through for some longer gainers when the play allows. Their big play ability is minimized, but they do everything else well enough to still be relevant.

 

[massraider]

Carolina wants both backs and both backs want to stay in Carolina it's just a matter of agreeing to financial terms.

I won't speak for other people that have J Stew absurdly too high in dynasty (I have him #5 and took him with pick #17 in a start up) but he's a solid RB2 at worst as long as he's splitting with DeAng and I think he's an elite back without him. DeAng has 4 years on him and I'm of the opinion that backs like DeAng are more susceptible to early career decline, so at some point I expect J Stew to shoulder the load.

What do you mean "backs like DeAng," and why do you think they are more susceptible too an early decline?

Guys who are most dependent on speed, I don't believe in the RB's are done at 30 rule anymore...but I do believe in an amended version...RB's that rely on speed probably are. It's something I've really just started to notice the last few seasons so I'm not sure how much (if any) weight it carries, but if it does mean anything I'll be ahead of the curve.

Okay, but what makes you think Williams is dependent of speed? He ran a 4.55 coming out of college. That's good, but it's not great. In fact, his draft profile from 2006 says he "lacks the flat-out speed to beat defenders around corner."Williams is a good cut-back runner, has good to great vision, has great balance, and is a good inside runner. He's not a back that is dependant on speed.

So, if he's not the back that you thought he was (that was susceptible too an early decline), does that make you reconsider your opinion on Stewart soon being asked to "shoulder the load?"

When I say 'speed' I don't mean straight line speed - I mean cut back ability, agility, quickness, etc. I don't think any back that just has speed is EVER a good investment, sorry for any confusion. I don't think he's that great of an inside runner and that will become more noticeable if he loses anything in those other departments. The backs that seem to age well are the ones that have that strong inside running ability that can consistently pound out 3, 4, 5 yards a touch and can break through for some longer gainers when the play allows. Their big play ability is minimized, but they do everything else well enough to still be relevant.

That's funny, I think the inside bangers break down quicker. A slippery back like DeAngelo is exactly the kind of back that I think lasts a long time. Low to the ground, doesn't take a ton of big hits, great vision. I would seriously doubt if his running style is a concern to the Panthers. Frankly, I think Stewart is a bigger injury risk.

 

[simey]

Stewart has never missed a game in the NFL and had corrective surgery, removing a bone spur that was aggravating his Achilles...relatively minor surgery. If he plays another 16 games, his injury history will become a non issue. Stewart isn't going anywhere anyways.

Today Stewart ran some conditioning sprints after practice. That's a good sign as far as his rehab from surgery goes.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Carolina wants both backs and both backs want to stay in Carolina it's just a matter of agreeing to financial terms.

I won't speak for other people that have J Stew absurdly too high in dynasty (I have him #5 and took him with pick #17 in a start up) but he's a solid RB2 at worst as long as he's splitting with DeAng and I think he's an elite back without him. DeAng has 4 years on him and I'm of the opinion that backs like DeAng are more susceptible to early career decline, so at some point I expect J Stew to shoulder the load.

What do you mean "backs like DeAng," and why do you think they are more susceptible too an early decline?

Guys who are most dependent on speed, I don't believe in the RB's are done at 30 rule anymore...but I do believe in an amended version...RB's that rely on speed probably are. It's something I've really just started to notice the last few seasons so I'm not sure how much (if any) weight it carries, but if it does mean anything I'll be ahead of the curve.

Okay, but what makes you think Williams is dependent of speed? He ran a 4.55 coming out of college. That's good, but it's not great. In fact, his draft profile from 2006 says he "lacks the flat-out speed to beat defenders around corner."Williams is a good cut-back runner, has good to great vision, has great balance, and is a good inside runner. He's not a back that is dependant on speed.

So, if he's not the back that you thought he was (that was susceptible too an early decline), does that make you reconsider your opinion on Stewart soon being asked to "shoulder the load?"

When I say 'speed' I don't mean straight line speed - I mean cut back ability, agility, quickness, etc. I don't think any back that just has speed is EVER a good investment, sorry for any confusion. I don't think he's that great of an inside runner and that will become more noticeable if he loses anything in those other departments. The backs that seem to age well are the ones that have that strong inside running ability that can consistently pound out 3, 4, 5 yards a touch and can break through for some longer gainers when the play allows. Their big play ability is minimized, but they do everything else well enough to still be relevant.

Sorry, I'm not understanding. If you are referring to the plow ahead 3-5 yards power runners, they seem to be the ones with the much shorter shelf lives before falling off of a cliff (Eddie George, Stephen Davis, Rudi Johnson, etc.).I also don't see how Williams isn't a guy that can consistently pound out 3-5 ypc. His career ypc average wouldn't be so impressive if he couldn't. He's capable of big plays and while his milestone season saw many of them, he's not dependant on big play ability.

 

[MAC_32]

Sorry, I'm not understanding. If you are referring to the plow ahead 3-5 yards power runners, they seem to be the ones with the much shorter shelf lives before falling off of a cliff (Eddie George, Stephen Davis, Rudi Johnson, etc.).I also don't see how Williams isn't a guy that can consistently pound out 3-5 ypc. His career ypc average wouldn't be so impressive if he couldn't. He's capable of big plays and while his milestone season saw many of them, he's not dependant on big play ability.

No, I am referring to guys like Thomas Jones, Curtis Martin, Ricky Williams, etc. Guys who do a little bit of everything, but when their speed hit a wall (or will hit a wall in the case of Ricky) they still had something to fall back on. Those plow ahead guys have a shorter shelf life, I don't think anyone will debate that...at least well anyway.I haven't crunched the numbers from last season, and doubt I will actually because time isn't as available as it used to be here, but a lot of his value from 2008 came from long distance so while his ypc is there he was certainly reliant on the big play. If he's not dialing it in from distance then he really isn't a special back, which wouldn't mean as much if he didn't have a potential monster like J Stew behind him.

 

[bweiser]

jesus after reading some of these threads i'm sorry i traded marques colston for stewart.

 

[MAC_32]

jesus after reading some of these threads i'm sorry i traded marques colston for stewart.

Why?

 

[Anthony Borbely]

jesus after reading some of these threads i'm sorry i traded marques colston for stewart.

Why?

 

[Bayhawks]

Sorry, I'm not understanding. If you are referring to the plow ahead 3-5 yards power runners, they seem to be the ones with the much shorter shelf lives before falling off of a cliff (Eddie George, Stephen Davis, Rudi Johnson, etc.).

I also don't see how Williams isn't a guy that can consistently pound out 3-5 ypc. His career ypc average wouldn't be so impressive if he couldn't. He's capable of big plays and while his milestone season saw many of them, he's not dependant on big play ability.

No, I am referring to guys like Thomas Jones, Curtis Martin, Ricky Williams, etc. Guys who do a little bit of everything, but when their speed hit a wall (or will hit a wall in the case of Ricky) they still had something to fall back on. Those plow ahead guys have a shorter shelf life, I don't think anyone will debate that...at least well anyway.I haven't crunched the numbers from last season, and doubt I will actually because time isn't as available as it used to be here, but a lot of his value from 2008 came from long distance so while his ypc is there he was certainly reliant on the big play. If he's not dialing it in from distance then he really isn't a special back, which wouldn't mean as much if he didn't have a potential monster like J Stew behind him.

You're not really making sense. The bolded above would be a very good description of Williams. He is a good inside runner (stats prove it, so you saying you don't think he is doesn't carry much weight), can break big plays, he's a good goal-line RB, he's a good receiver, and he's a good blocker. I think that would qualify as a "guy who does a little bit of everything."So RBs that fit the description you provided above (which DeAngleo certainly does) tend to have a longer shelf life. How does that indicate that Williams' wheels are soon to fall off?

 

[Bayhawks]

I haven't crunched the numbers from last season, and doubt I will actually because time isn't as available as it used to be here, but a lot of his value from 2008 came from long distance so while his ypc is there he was certainly reliant on the big play. If he's not dialing it in from distance then he really isn't a special back, which wouldn't mean as much if he didn't have a potential monster like J Stew behind him.

I went ahead and crunched the numbers. I looked at the 2008 AND 2009 seasons for Williams.In 2008 and 2009, Williams had 20 rushes for 20+ yards. I went ahead and deleted those from his rushing totals. In order to be statistically fair, however, I also deleted his 20 shortest rushes from those 2 years.

That left D Williams with 450 rushes for 1933 yards over the 2 year span. That equals a 4.30 YPC average.

For the record, over those 2 years, that YPC average would have placed Williams 11th among all running backs with at least 400 carries. Keep in mind, I didn't eliminate the rushes of 20+ yards for any other RB, so they all have the benefit of any long runs that will boost their YPC average. Even so, Williams was still a top-12 RB. But he "isn't a special back?"

BTW, I also crunched the numbers for the "potential monster like J Stew."

In 2008 and 2009, Stewart had 15 rushes for 20+ yards. I went ahead and deleted those from his rushing totals. In order to be statistically fair, however, I also deleted his 15 shortest rushes from those 2 years.

That left J Stewart with 374 rushes for 1536 yards over the 2 year span. That equals a 4.11 YPC average.

So, do you still think Williams is dependent on his speed and big plays, and his YPC is only impressive because of his big plays?

 

[Mark Wimer]

DEANGELO WILLIAMS STATS Receiving Rushing

Statistics No Yds Avg TD Att Yds Avg TD

2005 12 78 6.5 1 310 1,964 6.3 18

2004 18 210 11.7 1 313 1,948 6.2 22

2003 35 384 11.0 3 243 1,430 5.9 10

2002 5 51 10.2 0 103 684 6.6 5

Career 70 723 10.3 5 969 6,026 6.2 55

Deangelos Mileage came in college. I bolded his receiving and rushing attempts. Over 1000 touches

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position. They have to address the d line and o line. They lack starters and much needed depth along both sides of the line

You're right that Williams had a lot of touches from his college days, and that Carolina would have to look at that when they decided whether or not to tie up a large contract (or 2) in the RB position.However, if you are going to go back to college stats, you also need to consider injury history, dating back to college.

Jonathan Stewart was injured in all 3 of his college seasons. He missed several games his freshmen year due to an ankle injury, he was extremely limited in several games (less than 5 carries) his sophomore year due to another (or the same) ankle injury, and he injured his big toe during his junior year and had to have surgery in the off-season to correct the problem. In addition, he has been plague by nagging injuries throughout his pro career. In fact, he has NEVER been able to fully participate in off-season activities because of his injuries.

His max number of touches is 302 (his junior season in college).

As a franchise, I do not see how they can tie up so much money in second contracts in one position.

I agree with this, but the question they need to ask is: "If we stick with 1 guy, do we stick with the guy who has more touches, or more injury history?"

Stewart has never missed a game in the NFL and had corrective surgery, removing a bone spur that was aggravating his Achilles...relatively minor surgery. If he plays another 16 games, his injury history will become a non issue. Stewart isn't going anywhere anyways. The bottom line is this decision will likely come down to the Panthers and Williams agreeing on a contract. I'm not sure they can.

IMO, the CBA negotiations are going to have a major impact on DeAngelo Williams' situation (and many other players' situations). IF a CBA is agreed to in a timely manner by all parties and all parties know the parameters of future years (salary cap numbers, no cap, whatever eventually is agreed upon), then I think that Carolina and Williams probably come to an agreement without too much trouble.However, if the CBA negotiations turn ugly and we get either a lockout or a walkout that consumes preseason (or even a chunk of regular season 2011) before the pact is done, then player contracts are much more up in the air, IMO, as teams scramble to deal with whatever new reality they face with a minimum of time to go through the "five years forward" projections and etc. that they will need to manage their new collective reality. I can see a scenario where Williams is allowed to walk to a team with a bigger purse (in the "no-cap" paradigm) or to a team with a larger amount of room under the new cap (if that is the paradigm).

My .

 

[MAC_32]

Sorry, I'm not understanding. If you are referring to the plow ahead 3-5 yards power runners, they seem to be the ones with the much shorter shelf lives before falling off of a cliff (Eddie George, Stephen Davis, Rudi Johnson, etc.).

I also don't see how Williams isn't a guy that can consistently pound out 3-5 ypc. His career ypc average wouldn't be so impressive if he couldn't. He's capable of big plays and while his milestone season saw many of them, he's not dependant on big play ability.

No, I am referring to guys like Thomas Jones, Curtis Martin, Ricky Williams, etc. Guys who do a little bit of everything, but when their speed hit a wall (or will hit a wall in the case of Ricky) they still had something to fall back on. Those plow ahead guys have a shorter shelf life, I don't think anyone will debate that...at least well anyway.I haven't crunched the numbers from last season, and doubt I will actually because time isn't as available as it used to be here, but a lot of his value from 2008 came from long distance so while his ypc is there he was certainly reliant on the big play. If he's not dialing it in from distance then he really isn't a special back, which wouldn't mean as much if he didn't have a potential monster like J Stew behind him.

You're not really making sense. The bolded above would be a very good description of Williams. He is a good inside runner (stats prove it, so you saying you don't think he is doesn't carry much weight), can break big plays, he's a good goal-line RB, he's a good receiver, and he's a good blocker. I think that would qualify as a "guy who does a little bit of everything."So RBs that fit the description you provided above (which DeAngleo certainly does) tend to have a longer shelf life. How does that indicate that Williams' wheels are soon to fall off?

I didn't say his wheels were about to come off, I said I think he's more likely to fall off before or at 30 than he is to last beyond it. I've never been much of a believer in stats in football, I use my eyes to evaluate players and situations and just use stats to make sure what I'm seeing isn't crazy, the game is subjective in nature so eye test evaluations mean a hell of a lot more than statistical ones. I don't think DeAng is a particularly special receiver, blocker, or inside runner - he's good, just nothing special. I think the numbers make him look like a great inside runner, but think the offensive line has more to do with that than anything else.

When he's 29 going on 30 and probably declining if he is still with the Panthers I don't see them leaning heavy on him when they have a J Stew at a prime age for RB's, 25. It's certainly possible but I wouldn't make that bet.

 

[SSOG]

IMO, the CBA negotiations are going to have a major impact on DeAngelo Williams' situation (and many other players' situations).

That's another point worth mentioning. If there's a lockout in 2011, then by the time DeAngelo starts a new deal with Carolina, he's going to be 29 years old.

 

[Fighting Noles]

And if there's a lockout for 2011, people will have "owned" the #2 RB in Carolina the last 5 years for a pretty "high" price (Dynasty wise - especially in FBG leagues) too then also....It can be looked at either way, is all I'm saying.

I agree with Wimer that the terms of any new CBA will have a lot to do with whether or not Carolina can re-sign DWill.

But, as I stated in my OP (& I think some have agreed, of course some haven't - why the SP is a good place for varied opinions), I think it may be in the Panthers' interests to TRY to lock him up longer term with the type of O they run. Anthony, yourself & others tend to think they won't since it is easier said then done & I think that has led to Stewart being drafted somewhat higher around here then in other drafts I participate in. He is viewed as a big piece of a very good RBBC in other drafts, but a RBBC for now nonetheless.

My main point is still that if DWill stays healthy & productive through 2010, CAROLINA may have a good shot at resigning him because he fits their scheme well AND he isn't being asked to carry the full load in his late 20's. If the Dynasty owners at FBGuys have "figured out" that RB's have "peaked" at a certain age, I'm pretty sure that a lot of NFL GM's have too (LOL). This is why you see some players give their current team the "hometown discount" & I feel DWill may be that type of guy. He has stated often that he feels Stewart helps him & vice-versa, so he may feel his best chance for longevity is to stay in Carolina & sign a "decent"/GOOD contract. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders. Does he want to be fairly compensated? Of course - The article posted in this thread states that clearly, but I didn't think he came across like some guys do when discussing their futures with a team (ie: I'm out of here at the end of the year because I've been poorly treated or I'm a Superstar and better break the bank, etc.).

I think the chances are 2/3 to 1/3 he STAYS if the CBA is at all amendable to both sides (& if its not & there is no football in 2011 they've ruined it for themselves & all of us anyway) & others feel the opposite. It will be interesting to see how it plays out since it is a little rare (I know about LJ & SJax etc., but the wait was shorter) that a #2 back keeps being drafted in front of starters (for 3 years now), on the premise that once he is the stand alone guy I will be rewarded.

People are either going to be VERY happy or VERY disappointed with how it turns out though because Stewarts' draft spot doesn't really leave for an in between now IMO....

 

[BigJim®]

This is an article on DeAngelo from May 26th. link



Panthers RB DeAngelo Williams not fussing over contract



Panthers running back is entering the final season of his original 5-year deal, and will wait for the team's offer.

By Charles Chandler - cchandler@charlotteobserver.com

DeAngelo Williams says he's not "upset or aggravated or anything like that" about the Carolina Panthers allowing him to enter the final year of his contract without a lucrative extension despite two stellar seasons.

"I'm in no shape, form or fashion upset with anybody because I haven't gotten a new deal," Williams said after a morning practice Tuesday, the second day of the Panthers' organized team activities. "I just know at the end of this fifth year, somebody's got to make some decisions."

Williams, a 2006 first-round draft pick, has rushed for 2,632 yards and scored 27 touchdowns the past two seasons, emerging as one of the NFL's elite running backs.

He is one of several young stars the Panthers have said they want to keep long-term - including linebackers Jon Beason and Thomas Davis, and center Ryan Kalil - but to whom they haven't given contract extensions.General manager Marty Hurney said last month that new rules related to the collective bargaining agreement stalemate make it difficult to sign players with years remaining on their contracts to extensions, because the deals would have to include enormous signing bonuses.

Carolina also is working under a tighter budget than usual as owner Jerry Richardson gears up for a potential lockout of players by NFL owners. Richardson also is seeking to set a frugal example for other owners because of his role as co-chair of the committee overseeing labor negotiations with the players' association.

Nevertheless, Williams said his contract status has made him wonder whether the Panthers want to keep him.

"I'd love to be here," he said. "But somebody has to show me that they want me to be here. It's not my choice, unfortunately.

"My whole thing is I signed a five-year commitment here. If the owner doesn't want to re-sign me or if he doesn't want to re-do my deal, that's all him.

"I'm not going to get upset or anything like that because I know when I sat down and signed my five-year deal, I was committed here for five years. So why put up a fuss? Either he's going to re-sign you or he's not going to re-sign you."

Williams said he'll continue putting forth his best effort.

"When you look at it, the pressure's not on me," he said. "I'm going to get out there and try to be productive, just like Jonathan (Stewart) and just like any other player on the field because I'm a competitor and I love the game of football. I'll let all that take care of itself."

Williams returned to practice this week after sitting out a three-day minicamp earlier in the offseason while recovering from February ankle surgery.

He said the surgery was to perform "maintenance work" on his ankle but wasn't related to the high ankle sprain that sidelined him late last season.

His arttitude is refreshing. No doubt in my mind this guy is going to make some serious cash and produce somewhere.

 

[Tau837]

I don't think too many teams will shell out the kind of money I expect Deangelo will command if they have another back who has proven he can do just as well. I could be wrong. But I just don't think that is likely. If anything, they will draft someone in next year's draft in the second or third round to backup Stewart and start the whole cycle over.

Haven't read the thread yet, so this may have been mentioned later... but they could easily decide to tag Williams for one to two years, provided the new CBA allows for that. The Chargers have just done that with Darren Sproles, who obviously isn't close to as good as Williams.Then if the new CBA or the fact that Williams would be 29 entering the 2012 season served to lower his market value, the team could sign him to a new deal or just draft his replacement at that point and let him walk.

 

[Tau837]

Carolina wants both backs and both backs want to stay in Carolina it's just a matter of agreeing to financial terms.

I won't speak for other people that have J Stew absurdly too high in dynasty (I have him #5 and took him with pick #17 in a start up) but he's a solid RB2 at worst as long as he's splitting with DeAng and I think he's an elite back without him. DeAng has 4 years on him and I'm of the opinion that backs like DeAng are more susceptible to early career decline, so at some point I expect J Stew to shoulder the load.

What do you mean "backs like DeAng," and why do you think they are more susceptible too an early decline?

Guys who are most dependent on speed, I don't believe in the RB's are done at 30 rule anymore...but I do believe in an amended version...RB's that rely on speed probably are. It's something I've really just started to notice the last few seasons so I'm not sure how much (if any) weight it carries, but if it does mean anything I'll be ahead of the curve.

Okay, but what makes you think Williams is dependent of speed? He ran a 4.55 coming out of college. That's good, but it's not great. In fact, his draft profile from 2006 says he "lacks the flat-out speed to beat defenders around corner."Williams is a good cut-back runner, has good to great vision, has great balance, and is a good inside runner. He's not a back that is dependant on speed.

So, if he's not the back that you thought he was (that was susceptible too an early decline), does that make you reconsider your opinion on Stewart soon being asked to "shoulder the load?"

I had the same reaction to his post.

 

[Tau837]

When I say 'speed' I don't mean straight line speed - I mean cut back ability, agility, quickness, etc. I don't think any back that just has speed is EVER a good investment, sorry for any confusion. I don't think he's that great of an inside runner and that will become more noticeable if he loses anything in those other departments. The backs that seem to age well are the ones that have that strong inside running ability that can consistently pound out 3, 4, 5 yards a touch and can break through for some longer gainers when the play allows. Their big play ability is minimized, but they do everything else well enough to still be relevant.

From ESPN, his split stats show the following numbers by year when the play direction was up the middle:2009 - 85/392/1 (4.6 ypc)2008 - 102/593/5 (5.8 ypc)2007 - 36/201/1 (5.6 ypc)2006 - 26/92/0 (3.5 ypc)More importantly, when I've watched him play, I have been impressed with his inside running ability. There were those on this board who said a couple years ago that he didn't run inside well, didn't break tackles, went down too easily, etc., so I paid specific attention to his inside running ability when watching. I think of Williams as a guy who does consistently get 3+ yards per touch.

 

[JohnnyU]

The consensous now is to have two very good RBs. For that reason and the fract that Williams fits their scheme so well, he will resign.